Does My Mom Regret Leaving Mormonism?

I brought Mama back for an un-censored Part 2 where we discuss everything from self worth, boobs, uneasy temple practices and if she has regrets about leaving the church she was born and raised in. I also uncovered my very own Patriarchal blessing in an old memorabilia bin with a letter my religous-at-the-time mom wrote to me. Buckle up! It's a bumpy one!
Find Mama on Social Media!
Instagram @spiritofottertail
/ spiritofottertail
Support Shelise
Any donations are welcome and appreciated to support the making of this podcast
Patreon
/ cultstoconsciousness
Venmo @sheliseann
Find Shelise on Social media!
Instagram @cultstoconsciousness
/ cultstoconsiousness
Host Instagram @sheliseann
/ sheliseann
TikTok @cults.to.consciousness
/ cults.to.consciousness
Twitter @cultstocon
/ cultstocon
Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*

[@lisajohnson4744]

I can give you one possible answer to the sex question for teenagers/young adults: if a guy pressures you for sex and you say no and he goes to someone else, he’s basically still pressuring you for sex. He’s not honoring relational boundaries, and he won’t suddenly honor relational boundaries if the two of you get married, and you need to get as far as possible from him. He has showed his true colors early on, and that’s a blessing.

[@MC-8]

❤

[@greg-op2jh]

I am gay but I had a serious girlfriend in HS. We were sexually active for a long time. It took my years down the road to realize that I was guilty of pressuring her for sex. We would be making out or other stuff and she would give an excuse or reasons like not now or we are going to get in trouble. So i would try to "get" her in the mood. And would then willingly wanted the sex. I never felt like I was crossing boundares at the time but I absolutely am guilty of coercion. I asked her if she ever felt like I went to far and she said no. But today I am 32 and if someone did that to me i would hate it. We absolutely need to teach sex education and what consent is.. anything but yes is a no go.

[@BabyGirl-qn3wc]

You said that absolutely amazingly!!!

[@OHMaven1]

It is difficult for a teenager to distinguish between love and lust. The flesh desires sex and is being fueled by hormones, whereas the heart ❤️ needs love, security, and loyalty. Looking back, there aren’t many teenage boys/young men who understand how to control their sexual urges and to seek and give genuine love! Girls should be taught that their bodies are created to nurture, love, create, and feed new life! And to give their husband physical love. The poem in the book of Song of Songs is what many Christian churches use to teach young people the importance of waiting for the right time when sex can be thoroughly enjoyed and not undertaken for selfish, lustful reasons! The Bible says we are to GUARD our heart above all things, for everything you do, flows out of it! I find it interesting that God tells us to guard our hearts, and that sexual sin defiles us the most! For in our temporal body, is where the Holy Spirit resides, after we accept Jesus as our Savior and Lord!

[@Jo-zw7fw]

@@OHMaven1I agree w much of you say, but where does it say it defiles us most?

[@justrachel4496]

As someone who left a cult, I do want to encourage anyone thinking of leaving that while genuine friendships outside the cult are out there, it can take a while to find them. In other words, if you leave a cult and feel very lonely and are having trouble socializing, that is also normal, however you are not doomed to solitude forever.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Rachel! thanks for your comment and encouraging words of advice. I agree!

[@justrachel4496]

@cindybin2001 I was not in LDS, nor did I mention LDS in my comment.

[@TS-iv9ml]

@cindybin2001 lifer here no choice come back in 10 years and remember what u said above when you reach our age in life.

[@DebraJean196]

Rachel, many cults have FB groups and KZbin channels to provide support for people leaving many cults. And a lot of them support folks from other groups as well. We all need to let folks needing support know how to find these groups.

[@justrachel4496]

@@DebraJean196 Those resources are important and can be very helpful; I'm glad you brought them up. However, they are not the same as one-on-one friendships and many people will still be very lonely even with access to those resources.

[@fitcwebb]

Your mom has a lot of courage. Much respect for being brave enough to have an open mind to listen to your conscience

[@CultstoConsciousness]

She does. It takes a lot for me to get her to record but they always turn out great! Thanks for being respectful of her vulnerability.

[@privacyadvocate6697]

Also your mom is awesome, brainwashed her whole life and still used logic and well probably you asking her questions about her faith, WOW that is just brave, to lose most of your friends and even family to be free of Joseph Smith, most people couldn't or wouldn't do it. If I was in Oregon I would bring her cookies everyday, I can't even imagine how that would turn your world upside down. All I know is I want to see more mom videos with you, I still can't believe it ( I do, but damn she is strong)

[@anngorrell4309]

​@@CultstoConsciousnessall àà are à 😊😊 N H M7

[@kerstinklenovsky239]

If this is the degree the LDS church messes with its members' minds, can you imagine how messed up the women in the FLDS must be? 😭😭😭

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Literally can't. I did an interview (thumbnail says "Obey") with a woman who's family was FLDS but never got too deep into it herself. You might find it interesting.

[@msvg3]

The thing I admire most in your mother is that she is careful to express her personal view without discounting the views of others or imposing motives on others with different views.

[@carolynmcmillan7083]

Definitely mamma is still so respectful

[@lanigouws3525]

Amazing woman. Her respectful responses makes her words so much more powerful.

[@nedsanders]

Real talk. We need more of this open and honest dialogue. These cults permanently damage people.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for supporting our vulnerable conversation. :) I agree

[@nedsanders]

Also props to your mother for being brave enough to admit that she wasn't perfect and made some wrong decisions. I think that's a big problem with the Mormon church they won't admit wrongdoing or apologize. It is a tragedy to the members.

[@bonniegomez5333]

​@nedsanders yes, because making a mistake can have the worst of worst consequences, no one could possibly be comfortable making a normal, human, "mistake", like drinking at 20 instead of 21, or having sex, or exploring your own body, or making your fashion choices that are questionable. When literal hell is the other option, people are forced to deny their humanity.

[@kiterafrey]

I wasn’t raised LDS but our church did something similar we had the little cupcake lesson. And I still wanted it after someone licked it because I wasn’t allowed to have sugar at home but my youth pastor was so upset and said that I was willingly trying to defy God

[@elichaalmonord49]

😂

[@everyusernameistakenomfg]

Wow that's great, little you didn't give a f

[@heatherstonebridge]

That's awesome 👍

[@reginafallangie2867]

I’d b like, “plenty of people would still want the cupcake…as long as the licked part is cleaned off from the last person”. 😏

[@emilyrln]

Lmao mini legend! 😂

[@snapps55]

I have a friend who's young son questioned a bishop about the emergency supplies at their LDS church. He thought, at six years old, that the food, water, blankets and clothing could be given to people who needed them now. The bishop responded that those things were emergency supplies for only their ward. This little boy took great issue with that. Out of the mouths of babes.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

So true! What a smart little guy

[@Gurfmanj]

More critical thinking at six than the adult Bishop lol.

[@air0crash]

OBSESSED with your mom! i’m so glad she now gets to wear whatever she wants and explore other practices like yoga instead of being forced to cover up and waste time in the temple. can’t wait for the next ep 🍄 🙏🏽

[@CultstoConsciousness]

haha I LOVE that you're obsessed with her. She's pretty great! The next one is a great one! Most likely coming in January

[@sconnielassie]

Love your mom, too ❤

[@LetMeTellYouSomething144]

This hour interview, felt like 15 minutes. So refreshing.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww that's so great to hear! Thank you so much!

[@taracmonroe]

Shelise, you are doing such extraordinary work. I agree that sexuality is normal and women are sexual beings too. Women certainly should not be shamed for wanting sex, having sex, or being sexual if that is what they want. Their sexuality belongs to themselves also, not to anyone else. Thanks for the talk.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you, Tara! Absolutely agree!

[@fancydeer]

Mama is a strong woman, I'm very grateful she shared her story.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you! She is!

[@swkrissie]

Our mother was dying from cancer, and she told my only brother in the church he had to fulfil her blessing by going on a mission. So a month after she died, he's in Utah immersed in learning a new language, and then two months later he's gone for 2 years. It was a hard time for all of us, but he had to grieve in another country, alone, with no emotional support. I don't think he ever fully recovered.

[@QuinnPrice]

I love the name of your channel. My journey as well. I left Mormonism 16 years ago after a resume that ended with Bishop's counselor and viel worker. Knowing cult influence, I burned my garments 15 minutes after hitting the tipping point, but struggled with other emotional issues. But I didn't feel a second of regret for leaving. Best decision of my life.

[@johnlee1352]

16 years ago...and here you still are...pathetically hanging around these sites, bashing a faith you claim to have rejected all those years ago. Don't you think it's time to move on? THAT would be the best decision of your life. wow

[@ashlynonline]

as someone who didn’t really grow up in churches or religion, i really appreciate the honesty and thoughts that you and your mom had about the religion and what thoughts would go through your mind during those times. It really is interesting how a womans way into heaven is depended on what she does with her husband or the husbands choices. Especially calling the name part is really odd, the wife could’ve followed the rules her whole life but if her husband didn’t call her name she doesn’t get that? it takes away all autonomy and choices from women and instills fear and shame

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Ashlyn! You are 100 percent right. The church is lathered in covert sexism and racism. This is why so many women get divorced when they find out that their husband has been less faithful (ie drinking coffee, watching porn, drinking alcohol, not going to church), because it affects their own salvation.

[@wesliepowell5698]

Right. Just one more reason to leave that gobble dee gook behind!

[@Sunmonks]

Exmo here, Really great episode, I sent it to my mom who's been out for a few years now and she absolutely loved it. Two generations of ex-Mormons talking through perspectives is something I'm very familiar with. My extended family, who are still in it, in some cases in organizational leadership roles, they feel really bad for me. I used to feel horrible about this, but as I've un-learned things I was taught, I've started to have a deeper sense of compassion for them.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! Thank you so much for sharing! That's great that you are able to have a different perspective on their "pity". A classic case where both parties feel sad for the other. Except in our case, we really DO have more information that could help them see otherwise.

[@johnlee1352]

Well, it sounds like you are slowly numbing yourself to the spirit. If that's your goal, congratulations. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@Sunmonks]

@@johnlee1352 You're saltier than most mormons I remember growing up with, so I'll simply say, you're welcome.

[@johnlee1352]

@@Sunmonks I've been called many things on these sites but never been called salty. A welcome change from the usual filthiness I get from the haters.

[@Sunmonks]

​@@johnlee1352 I'm unsurprised if you have haters, but I'm positive that's an exaggeration and doubt many others give you as much attention as I, and I'm sorry to say that. That being said, the limited exposure I've had to your brand confirms I'm speaking with someone who, on the daily, likely exemplifies an absolute polemic of teachings of Christ, either by willing naivety or ignorance; a walking lesson in who not to be, a lost soul looking for an easy target in order confirm their beliefs, someone who's looking to punch down. I wish you all the best on your pathological sojourn.

[@TenWau]

When you two were reading the letter and came to the part about shopping all day… when you laughed, Shelise, and said, “That checks out”… The love between you two.. the utter honesty and close relationship… well, it blazed forth. Supernova-like. May it always be so. And thank you for somehow lifting my heart and day.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you! 🥰 I feel lucky to have such a great relationship with my mama. She’s the best

[@staceyfloyd4009]

This was the first episode I’ve seen with your mom and wow. You are both incredible communicators and I feel so much connection to you and your experiences. Thank you so much for sharing these conversations ❤❤❤

[@mclm4711]

As a former Mormon I greatly appreciate you and your mom for speaking out. Much love!

[@karinland8533]

That’s probably what you lear when you have to please and tip toe around in the society you grew up in

[@irishis25]

​@@karinland8533😮

[@graymalkin8145]

I'm late to the party, but it's wonderful to see how close you and your mom are. I was raised in a really conservative Baptist church, and I left a few years before my mom. It strained our relationship for awhile, but since she's left the church we've become very close and I love how much she was willing to learn and grow

[@wlgeiger]

1) Your relationship is beautiful and I think you ladies are leading a great example. 2) How do I get a Tarot reading from your mom? 3) Great points about unconditional love and acceptance. "Why not love them more in this life?" Just goes to show your mom's true nature and instincts.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you so much! You can reach out to her on IG @spiritofottertail 😁❤️

[@mione134]

I'm Catholic, but I do love listening to your videos and takes on LDS. I had a friend in who was LDS. We became really close. Upon finding out I was Catholic, his parents tried to get me to go to church with them. I was uncomfortable, and declined politely. I almost considered going as a sign of respect for him and his family, but one dinner I was at, his father went into a long discussion on my faith and "do I really know what I believe?" "you don't know the truth" and lots of disparaging things towards me and Catholicism. His mother tried to politely change the topic and get him to stop but he gave her a look...and he continued. I told this man that I'm not here to get into a religious discussion. Especially not at a dinner table. And he kept saying if only I would attention church with them and meet everyone I would "understand". This poor boy was so embarrassed. I tried to stay friendly with him, but that experience scared me. He ended up transferring and the last I heard, he went on a mission and got married quickly upon returning. We used to be Facebook friends, years ago but I ended up deleting him. I'm 32. And this happened when I was 17. I'm not sure why I'm sharing this, as I haven't thought about this in SO long, but felt compelled to. Your videos are fantastic to watch. Thank you both.

[@elizabethgrogan8553]

@@mione134

[@elizabethgrogan8553]

@@mione134 I had a similar experience. I felt it was so rude when some almost stranger was telling me that everything I believed was just a fantasy, and that Mormonism was the only true Church. Eventually, I told him why I didn't believe in his cult (yes, I used that word) and pointed out how rude he had been. He did apologise, but I didn't want him in my life.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Mione! I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. While most mormons are the sweetest most well-wishing people on the planet, one thing they severely lack is self awareness. They honestly can't see how ridiculous, judgmental, tunnel-visioned and patronizing they can be, because its all done out of love and to save your soul. At all costs. Thanks for sharing your experience! and thanks for watching :)

[@Zeett09]

Yes. I was told by young missionaries that my Catholic baptism was illegitimate. It was not authorized. I was also told my prayers were not being answered because I was not LDS.

[@miniciominiciominicio]

Your mom is such a strong woman as well as beautiful. I'm envious of your relationship with her but it makes me happy to see genuine friendship like this. Her letter to you nearly made me cry.

[@accountabilitymatters5520]

As someone raised in theJW org, and have recently had a client who spoke of his Mormon background and his desire to change that religion from the inside out.. this was enlightening, and also pretty triggering to me as well. So much to process in my head, but thank you both for sharing. Your relationship is beautiful:)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you! yes a lot of self appointed progressive mormons believe they can make a difference if they stay. Usually though, they realize its a losing war, they become defeated and upset with their futile efforts and end up leaving after a huge toll on their mental health. You have to give them credit though for being brave enough to try!

[@JosephineB-oq9id]

What a beautiful Mom and daughter. That bond is like no other! My daughter and I escaped religion 20 years ago and never looked back. You two have kept kindness and love as the priority. Beautiful, thank you.

[@paulderosa8981]

Your mom is strikingly beautiful and courageous.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

I think so too!

[@DebraJean196]

She is beautiful, intelligent, and courageous!

[@MissTippiLu]

I lost it when your mom started reading the letter😭 Both of you are so beautiful together.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you! She’s amazing 🥰

[@andymackey]

THIS IS BEAUTIFUL! I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOUR MOM CHOSE TO KEEP YOU IN HER LIFE. 🙂 MY MOM JUST PASSED AWAY YESTERDAY AFTER DISOWNING ME 5 YEARS AGO FOR LEAVING THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES THAT SHE RAISED ME IN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CHANNEL, IT HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP. MUCH LOVE TO YOU AND YOUR MOM. 🙂

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Andy! I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. Thank you for listening and I wish you the best!

[@andymackey]

@@CultstoConsciousness THANK YOU. YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH PLANT MEDICINE HAS REALLY INTRIGUED ME. I THINK THAT IT MIGHT BE THE HEALING THAT I NEED TOO. ALOHA MY FRIEND 😎 🤙

[@jenr1647]

😢

[@jenr1647]

😢

[@laurenl720]

Great second part of interview with your mom. ❤ so glad y’all are still in touch/close.

[@hollyI807]

I really enjoy listening to your mom. It’s really helping me in my own deconstruction. She is gorgeous inside and out ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

That’s amazing! She’s the best 🥰

[@karenherndon8941]

I just watched your LA Boda. You are so AMAZING, TALENTED, AND WONDERFUL 😊🎉❤. Your husband and mom too. Thank God you found yourself you're so Strong.❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you so much!!

[@angelarose661]

Amazing podcast & youtube channel!! Shelise, you are one of my very favorite interviewers and your work is so worthy and inspiring. Your mom and your husband are great too! Keep up the great work!!

[@djdingwall1]

Well, you’ve done it again Shelise. I loved seeing your mom, Lisa, again. 💞

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks, Donna! She will be back!

[@safariwild8855]

Pregnant with my little girl due only weeks from today I totally cried when your mom read that letter. I hope I can have that kind of relationship.

[@betsymoore1712]

I firmly believe you are doing what you were told to do. But with open arms and heart and such fabulous intelligence. You are doing so much to bring strength and love to so many folks that got caught up in nonsense. Your Mom is adorable. I left my mother’s dream of church for me at 7yrs old. So I feel the pressure you felt.

[@kateray]

I love what Mama said about if you truly believe that your child is living in a way that you won't get to spend eternity with, shouldn't you want to spend as much time as possible with them now before you get separated? And pulling it to the part at the end of people having trouble leaving because of the community, that these people who "love you" will all abandon you. If they believe that you have changed your life in a way that will mean you won't see them for eternity, shouldn't they hold your friendship tighter in this life then? I think if the church took that shame off for people inside to associate with people who left or were never part, I think that shameful restriction would really help alot of people and families to even just lift that one piece. Love listening to y'all chat ♡

[@nicolehill1178]

Your mom’s letter made me cry. You’re very blessed ❤ Love your videos.

[@1yoginiheart]

I lived in St. George for eight years, and just love that space. The church is huge there, we have two Temples. I have so struggled with all of there issues, being 59 years old. Gowing up under those same ideologies. There is no answer to the correctness of how to manage these inticaciest in relationships. Thank you. I so love you two!!

[@annewrites...8385]

What an incredible lineage of women... grandmother, mother, daughter. Inspiring xxx

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️❤️❤️

[@ejwhite3017]

Very enjoyable discussion, just discovered this as a link from Mormon Stories and am quite happy that I did. I appreciate the different perspective that you give to discussions. I left the church a while ago and am enthusiastically discovering the support groups that are out there for me.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Ej! Thanks for coming on over and checking us out! I appreciate your compliments. Happy to have you 😁

[@SunsetBlissBeach]

It was very interesting hearing your patriarchal blessing. I use to be Mormon and I remember when I got my patriarchal blessing it was from a man I never met before. What surprised me is before he gave me the blessing he wanted to sit down and chat for a bit about myself. Then when I received the patriarchal blessing I noticed it included stuff about me that we had just talked about. (Also, our conversation beforehand went well so that may have contributed to him telling me in the blessing that I'd be going to the celestial kingdom.)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Ahhh yes. Kind of like con artist psychics who just get you to talk and then go off that lol

[@staceyfloyd4009]

This is the message I don’t know I needed to hear today. I’m ex-evangelical/fundie etc. I have always related SO MUCH to ex-Mormons and finally figured out why today. Because the Mormon church is large enough to have doctrine written down, it is so much easier to identify than what I grew up in. These beliefs are the same I was taught, completely independent of Mormonism. It’s gotten me thinking. What if the patriarchal/religious practice of shaming women is not broken and is actually functioning exactly as designed? If you want to truly solve a problem, you create safety for and support victims while holding perpetrators responsible. Instead, victims are shamed and blamed and handed the responsibility for anything that happens to them. If you step back and look at it, toxic systems like patriarchy function perfectly. I think shaming the women is exactly the point because it “solves” the problem by shutting victims down and keeping them quiet, which is the solution the toxic system is looking for. It’s the only way to control people on a mass scale is to make them self-police. That’s the point. I view the purity balls as an example of this distorted method of problem solving. It’s all such a mess 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@emmalouie1663]

That is not only in Mormonism about the large breasts... as one of my best freinds growing up who was NOT in a religious group had the same experience, she had large breasts at a young age and she was shamed by the BOYS around her in sports and at school, the NON-religious boys shamed her.

[@whitneysawyer483]

That's crap

[@ChrisSmith-yh4xv]

I love your mom! She's just gorgeous! I really resonate with her about the 'church'! I, too, was in all the presidencies, and have the guilt feelings for the rules I put on my kids! It is really the hardest part, to me, the things I nagged my kids about! I let the church have WAYYY too much power over me! I feel like I've been finally let out of prison and am trying to navigate my freedom at 60 years old! I'm trying hard to not let the regrets overcome the joy of being free to just BE! Thank you so much! You've been such an inspiration! ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

It’s better late than never! You did your best at the time ❤️

[@jaynekendall3049]

Your mum's love for you is so sweet and genuine i don't have a relationship with my mum and most of my family just my nan, and that's hard, but I'm glad you both have stayed close and are out of the church and are doing what you both feel is right for you 😊 im binge watching all your videos ❤

[@chelseyakagamermom1804]

Strong Truth! 💚 being on this journey to experience anything &everything you want, finding yourself and finally becoming your authentic self and meeting your soul family along the way! I really enjoy and appreciate you and your mom! Reminds me of my relationship i had with my mom and how grateful i was/am that she was so open to all beliefs. We werent religious but she let me experience and choose for myself what i wanted to believe, I'm very grateful and doin the same for my child. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and helping others to do the same your incredible

[@kristinsimco5242]

Your mom is such a beautiful and inspiring woman. I’m so glad you did this with her. Hearing her re-read her letter to you…Omgosh…I’m crying. She’s lovely and you can tell that she genuinely wanted what was best for you and your future. Even if that future is different from what you both saw it to be. Thank you, as always for sharing such personal experiences ❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

She really is amazing. Love her so much

[@crystalmartin5528]

Your mother is brave and beautiful! Would never have guessed her age. Ex Mormon myself.

[@rebornfurnituredesigns2492]

It’s so mind blowing to me that women are restricted in Mormonism yet a boob job is normal and common. I can’t wrap my head around that. Props to you ladies for being so strong and resilient! 💪🏼❤️

[@ritakavanaugh9511]

LOVE the Linda Listen on this episode!! It is so hard to make new friends outside of the church. I am grateful for all you are doing, and the messages that are being expressed. Your mom is awesome!

[@denisecintas4954]

Your Mom is lovely, and her journey is so much like mine. I'm 75 this year, and for many years, I have lived with abandonment by my family because I am a liberal, walked away from their church, and been in several marriages because of childhood sexual abuse and teenage rape. In my family if I had sought counseling in the 60's and 70's I would have been considered a nut case. I get depressed at times, but I am clos closer to my creator now and don't go to church. Nature is my chapel. ❤❤❤❤ Thank you for your love and honesty. I turned to tarot card readings through the KZbin Black and Orange channel.😊❤❤

[@annadrift4]

Your mom and you have something deeply profound. I'm crying. That was amazing.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

☺️❤️ thank you. I feel very lucky to have her

[@nihonbabe]

I love listening to you and your Mom! Your openness is so encouraging to me to question things in my life. I admire your courage and strength!!! Thank you for sharing!!

[@InNoSenceNonsence]

I can't imagine being so open with my own mom, expressing what I really think, and suggesting anything contrary to the mormon elephant in the room; like I shouldn't be a detractor to her perseverance in faith. Still not sure if it would be hurtful or healing to have this kind of discussion but I'm relieved she hasn't disowned me. Also I have enough distance from the church that now I can see how quaint it is for a stake patriarch to utter an eloquent blessing that amounts to a seance for god.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

"Seance for God" is exactly what I was searching for but couldn't find the words. Thank you! Yes, I'm definitely lucky to be able to be open and honest with my mom and discuss how the church changed us mentally. Glad your mom hasn't turned her back on you!

[@johnabbott1727]

Shalise.....your mom is very beautiful and i hope she continues to keep telling herself that she is beautiful

[@teamcougars]

Adore your mom so much she is a breath of fresh air and perspective 💜💜

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️

[@BlueLemons_96]

I love your mom, Shelise

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Love to hear that! Thank you for sharing!

[@MrToombstone]

Your mother sounds like she is so much fun. I’m happy for both of you in your new lives.

[@clarawasserstein99]

So appreciate this! Especially love the protest against the cruelty of blaming a gay person for being himself like “God made him”

[@danneitzel13]

Love your mom so much. Love to see her more and hear her opinions.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Dan! I'm so happy to hear that! I love her too :D

[@kenburwood]

The point of keeping temples exclusive is: 1. It gives a way to control their members into being "worthy" the way the church wants them to be 2. It gives the members a sense of superiority (even if not consciously) 3. It gives them a sense of exclusivity (like being in any other exclusive club) 4. It's to keep the secrecy of the ceremonies. Cults love secrecy. It keeps both internal and external people off balance. Even the internal people are kept off balance, from your mother's story about being shushed with her questions in the temple, and then denied answers outside the temple. It's all to manipulate human psychology.

[@kenburwood]

@cindybin2001 I'm talking about the psychology behind it, as I said that superiority thing isn't even necessarily a conscious thing--at least not overtly. But that's superiority feeling it's definitely there, I've seen it many times. It comes out as feeling more worthy than anyone who's not able to go. It's not putting others down, but it is a flavor of subtle superiority. The current believers truly believe that it's all true and good and that their god wants that sacred separation for the members good. There isn't I'll intent meant by the members, I understand that. But that doesn't change the underlying overarching concept and psychological effects. Though Smith absolutely knew what he was doing when he created his following.

[@savantianprince]

Very true. I hate secrecy

[@evillyn3836]

I've watched a lot of your videos without leaving a comment. Just here to say I deeply appreciate what you're doing. As someone who grew up in a catholic fundamentalist house, its feels so comforting to hear stories about people who've lived through something similar. PS: if you dropped videos on your skincare routine I'd watch all pf those too❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Evillyn! Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I’m so happy it’s helpful. Thank you 🥰 biggest advice I could give is drink fresh celery juice first thing in the morning on an empty stomach everyday for a few months. You’ll be glowing

[@Isabella-nd3rq]

Your mom is adorable. I am glad you guys have such a good relationship and you’re both OUT!

[@jessaabraham]

Just blessed to see such compatibility between mom and daughter. How can you guys talk this way?! Just plain wonderful. Rare. By the way this is what is asked of an entire India not just your religion. That’s 2billion or so.

[@MyTinyBalcony]

I am watching this thinking how well put together your mother looks. She is beautiful, warm, funny, sweet, and just wonderful. Thanks Mama Bear. I am 52 wishing I looked as well put together as you do.

[@AzDesertFoxx]

Your mom is so cool, and you two have such open, honest communication!

[@elainecooper9529]

What a great relationship!!! I have that with my daughter and feel so blessed. I am an exmo too. Such freedom being out of that cult. Please keep searching for the truth. There is a truth so don't give up! Love you both!

[@karenhuffman4537]

Just want to say how much I appreciate every video you are making. I left the Mormon Church when I was 18 (Well my parents only made me go to sacrament meeting by the time I was 16) and now, at 39, I'm STILL deconstructing and finding ways that my ways of thinking were warped by that religion. I wish I knew how you guys are attracting friends. I still have trouble finding a community. Not that I had one in the Mormon church, since I was bullied and rejected basically from when I was a child. But outside of my highschool friends my husband and a few close people I've picked up along the way... It's just really tough! Anyway, thank you!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you for sharing that. ❤️ I’m happy to hear that my videos can be helpful. Exmos unite!

[@charisma-hornum-fries]

I'm 45 and still struggle. If I could start therapy when I became conscious of the damages about 15 years ago it would have been a lot easier. It wasn't known that cults existed in Denmark back then and there wasn't any therapists familiar with the field. Not until a few years ago they specialized in that situation. I see you. From the north side of the planet. You are worth everything good in life. Whatever that is for you. You got this!

[@johnlee1352]

39 and still haven't "launched"...sad. No community, no friends. Good choice leaving the one group you belonged to. Think of it. More than twenty years later, here you are...pathetically visiting these sites and denigrating a faith you claim to have rejected two decades ago. Move on already.

[@FrogeniusW.G.]

I think the whole ("fortune telling") blessing letter came true! You are spiritual, can tell right from wrong and speak out & teach what needs to be said etc!.. ❤

[@renewood7827]

I love the relationship you have with your Mom. The letter and blessing were very nice. The blessing is written like it could be a general letter to all women.

[@HamiltonRowan-r6z]

I'm so sick of these cults. They have hurt so many people. My wife was a victim of a cult (not LDS) and developed PTSD. Later on it would cause immense problems in our marriage. I live alone right now and haven't seen missionaries in years thankfully!

[@AlisonReacts]

Your mum is an amazing person. She is SO interesting and her perspective and view of the world from her experience is truly captivating. I hope we see more of her. What an awesome human.

[@sweingold5686]

Enjoyed this honest conversation between a mother and daughter, both on their own spiritual journeys.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you!

[@wesliepowell5698]

My baby brother died just before his 8th birthday and I was so confused by everyone saying it was a blessing 😢, instead of calling it the tragedy it was.

[@tracie_donatlafleur6233]

Excellent information! I love your mom ❤What a journey you both have had and you can absolutely feel the love you both have for each other ❤❤❤❤❤

[@TS-iv9ml]

❤️ the crystals on the table. Rose Quartz is a beautiful addition to consider 😍 love your topics and how well you present. Growing up in this "church" as a woman was sooooo confusing and damaging. It becomes generational but you two show it can be stopped 💗 TY!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

My mom has a lot of gorgeous ones! If you check out my other episodes (where I film at home) you may notice my giant rose quartz tower behind me :) Thanks for watching!!

[@TS-iv9ml]

@CultstoConsciousness I have noticed the beautiful giant rose quartz 💖 when u film at home 🥰 Love your episodes and guests!! Grateful to know we aren't alone! We keep selenite around home too 😊

[@beefrick9957]

Your mom seems like a really beautiful soul. It’s such a shame that she had to spend so much of her life feeling shame and unworthiness. I’m sure she will find steadfast friends in the new groups she’s been branching out into.

[@skyjust828]

I love Lisa!!! Shelise your Mom is the best I'm from her generation (born in '61) but I left "the church" in 1978 with no qualms I had accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord & Savior in between baptism and confirmation. But this lady saw it through to even after temple marriage 😲 what a WONDERFUL LADY!!!

[@johnlee1352]

Your weakness and confusion ooze from your post. You are not missed. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

[@username9999]

I have been to church meetings in which people will recieve a "message from God" such as "God sees you as a flower and he picks you to be in his bouquet." My church taught that you should give "words of encouragement" and no future telling was allowed to be told about "mates, dates, or babies."

[@raylawler13]

I wish your mom was my mom. She's awesome! (And yes, you're exactly right. That's how many blessings that Patriarch had given when you got yours. Mine was 662 for my Patriarch.)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Ray! She really is the best. Thanks for watching! WOW! 662! That is one experienced medium right there.

[@evelyntaylor742]

Love your coverage on Mormonism Shelise! I can attest to the disastrous outcomes that result from trying to follow a patriarchal blessing as though it was revelation from God. Made a lot of poor life altering decisions, as did my brother, trying to live my life according to my fraudulent blessing. If I could encourage members to do one single thing it would be to abandon the practice of receiving patriarchal blessings!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi Evelyn! Thanks for your comments! It's so frustrating to hear that people were manipulated into living their lives according to their blessing. So, I agree with you! Time to get rid of them. I wonder when the church started doing those ritualistic blessings anyway....

[@evelyntaylor742]

@@CultstoConsciousness I'm not sure on the history either but the cynical side of me understands The Church benefits from a blessing which promises wonderful blessings if only you remain faithful within The Church. So, I doubt patriarchal blessings won't go away anytime soon. As a compromise, I wish there was an age limit for receiving them...at least 18! I'm so glad you woke up to the realities as early as you did. My awakening came much later.

[@daphnesmith5209]

That was a beautiful podcast with your mom. Thank you!

[@ElfInTheFlowers]

I am watching this video 6 months after it came out but it made me think a lot about my relationship with my parents, my Catholic (with more than a dash of Charismatic Renovation- cult within the church)… but also how similar the belief system is!! The early Catholic Church (1500 years ago) didn’t allow for nonbaptized people to enter the cathedrals. This changed later but that was what the atrium outside of the churches were for. The fact that the concept of sainthood and speaking to God through representatives is also a similar thing, along with all of the ceremonies. I have an exmormon friend who began deconstruction as a phd student researching Latino Catholic beliefs in the southwest…. Sometimes seeing the similarities in different systems makes it easier to question them all (especially if your way is the only one). You and your mom are fantastic and it is truly a treasure to be able to maintain such a warm and strong bond beyond the cultic environment. Sending love and solidarity!

[@bottomofyoursoul]

Thank you and your mom for telling your stories, it takes a lot of courage to open up the way you do, it means a lot to many of us that have a lot of questions and hearing this very deep conversations give us thoughts to introspect and digest a lot of things. (english is not my first language)

[@CultstoConsciousness]

You’re so welcome! Thank you for listening and supporting ❤️

[@holeika]

I love your mom....my mom is a narcissist that has she is getting older is getting meaner and more evil ... The reason I'm an empath 😊 both of you are beautiful powerful women. You inspire

[@bonniegomez5333]

This is beautiful. Even if i knew nothing about your past, i see a mom owning her mistakes, admitting she wasnt perfect, and i see a daughter accpeting but not ignoring the wrong that was done to her and i see forgiveness. I was never part of a cult, but i had a toxic religious family and later a tpxic misogynistic family and through you, i felt seen, and i sqw a glimpse of forgiveness and hope in my future. thank you.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️❤️❤️

[@CultstoConsciousness]

❤️❤️❤️

[@kateray]

Hearing your Patriarchal Blessing, if you take out the whole church part, just the you will be blessed with and sharp tongue, strong mind, feel the spirits, go forth and teach and help others... that sounds like it would have been a great and pretty accurate Tarot reading!

[@misterdiffiCULT1]

when you read the patriarchal blessing and said it was somewhat triggering, I felt that in my soul. phenomenal discussion. And the ending was awesome with your now-husband jumping in with his coffee.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

😁❤️

[@TheColor17]

LOVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR MOM...My daughter & I have a cool, honest & FUN relationship too! THX for this & the other vid with your Mom👩‍👩‍👧‍👦👨‍👨‍👧‍👧👨‍👨‍👧...All The Best

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thanks so much!!

[@SaraHobbs]

Loved this interview! So grateful for you both being so honest and open with your stories!😊

[@mallen6783]

Wow thank you for another amazing episode especially with your mom, I've had some twinkles in my eyes throughout, I come from a completely different background of "high mandate religions" Yet the similarities are so obvious. it's tough to go through these lifestyle changes even though I'm relatively young, and (your) mom's optimism for future gave me this boost of needed optimism, keep up the good work.

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Hi! Thank you so much for your compliments. It means a lot. I'm so happy to hear my mom's perspective is helpful.

[@goldenshore6222]

This was such a great interview. I enjoyed listening to all of it. Your mom was and is a fantastic beautiful mom, and you are a wonderful and beautiful daughter and wife, and you're both doing so much to elevate consciousness in a beautiful feminine way. THANK YOU!!!👏👏☕😎❤️👍🎉

[@CultstoConsciousness]

You’re so kind! Thank you!❤️🥰

[@bekabracken]

I know this is a year ago, but I’m in St. George! I really appreciate your perspective…thank you!

[@AThousandWords]

Really enjoyed this (love all of your videos) - I have so much respect for your mom and her candour in sharing her experiences.

[@louiseisobelevans]

Family healing at it’s finest ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤thank you xxx

[@SR-bw3sc]

Kudos. For sure, it takes courage to question, investigate 🔎 and search for truth. You may find it interesting that "the independent investigation of truth" is a basic principle of the Baha'i Faith.

[@emilyrln]

Your mom is amazing! 🤩 I have to think that people who distance themselves from family/friends who have "strayed from the path" believe that the pain of separation will pull those loved ones back onto the supposed "righteous path." I simply cannot wrap my brain around any other reason to cut someone you love out of your life and cause both of you so much pain.

[@GrumpyVickyH]

Loved this interview. You two have such a great relationship. ❤❤❤

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Thank you, Vicky!

[@lylymongeon]

Given all your experiences and fallout, what marks me the most is your choice to keep believing in g*d. I can’t wrap my head around it. Much respect to you both (plus hubby). You and Mom are goyjus compassionate people. One can only wish to friend either of you. To each their own on beliefs. Tfs.

[@mrsmomstheword1]

I love watching the special relationship you have with your Mom!

[@CultstoConsciousness]

Aww thank you! We should have her on again

[@lisagrace6471]

That is crazy to me about the naked poncho thing. I thought I already knew most things about this- I did not know about this until very recently. As far back as 2011 is when they did NOT have the naked poncho thing. It is wild to me that no one shared that not long ago it was that different!!! ;(((