Cultural Appropriation: Compliment or Theft?

Throughout history, the most successful societies have been the ones that were open to cultural exchange and borrowing. The development of religion, philosophy, science, the arts and technology is the cumulative outcome of communities borrowing, assimilating and copying aspects of each other’s cultural achievements. Today, however, such mingling and remaking is viewed with suspicion if not hostility, denounced by some as ‘racist theft’. Critics of ‘cultural appropriation’ insist that cultural engagement is one thing, but the taking up ‘without permission’ of another culture’s practices, symbols and ideas is another. But can culture really be owned or stolen?
Filmed at the Battle of Ideas 2017, the speakers are Dr Sarah Cheang, Dr Tiffany Jenkins, Kunle Olulode, Bijan Omrani, Sameer Rahim. The chair is Claire Fox.

[@patrickyoung2117]

I'm Italian. My hair is dark and straight. Anyone and everyone may, for all eternity, wear their hair as straight as they like. Or cook spaghetti, lasagna, ravioli, or order a pizza. I'm sure I'll be OK.

[@nigelralphmurphy2852]

Patrick Young? Italian? hmmmm

[@gregchavez1534]

@@nigelralphmurphy2852 My last name is Chavez. My FATHER is *nuevomexicano* (that means his immediate heritage is a mix of Native and Spanish influences in and around what is now the state of New Mexico). My MOTHER is 4th generation *Irish-American* . Though I don't look particularly Irish, I doubt you'd confuse me with a Latino American in most contexts. Had I been a GIRL, my name would have been *Marisol* Chavez, not Gregory. Now imagine a parallel universe where all matches our world except for three things: my MOTHER was *nuevomexicano* , my FATHER was 4th-gen *Irish-American* and I was born a GIRL. My name might be *Marisol* McHale. Tweak it back a bit in another universe and suppose that I was born a boy as in this one. Now my name could be **Gregory McHale**! So I ask you: in which of these universes would I be allowed to legitimately agree with Patrick Young? Hmmmmmmm.....

[@The1calico]

Because we live with internet and we are able to see different ways of living, it is natural to want to express things that catch our eye. That is not racsit. This is going over board. Because you are not of one culture you can't eat dress or wear your hair or bite items that belong to a culture. We live in a global world culture is is mingling people are mingling.

[@zxyatiywariii8]

Well said! 👍🏾

[@rahulchakraborty8916]

What is good is... If you learns about a culture... finds it interesting and embrace it... and say... THIS CULTURE IS SO GOOD... THAT I FOUND IT WORTHY TO EMBRACE!!!! You acknowledge that other culture(which is not yours) and still embraces it. THE PROBLEM HAPPENS WHEN... You say that the culture which you just embraced was always a part of your culture... and not acknowledging that... YOU'VE TAKEN THAT CULTURAL STUFF FROM A SEPARATE CULTURE... Then it becomes... Cultural Theft!!! WHICH IS A VERY WRONG AND DISRESPECTFUL THING TO DO FOR PEOPLE COMING FROM ANY CULTURE... That mindset directly makes the status of your down... in the eyes of the world!!!

[@The1calico]

The only reasons why culture stayed distinct to 1 people is because we weren't able to travel or to see other people but now that we have the internet and we are able to mingle and see other people's way of living we are exchanging that is not racism that is people being people. This panel causes division segregation and ideas of racist mindset. the more you keep people separate the more you keep racism alive.

[@lemondewdrops470]

I personally believe that in order to stop this society of racism is to just learn and appreciate not to just take and assume your own. That's when the complications of racism alive.

[@DarkAngel2512]

I grew up in the black community and they let me share their culture. Then the internet came along and slowly over ten years I've seen this idea emerge that its supposedly wrong. Its absolute bullshit. It comes from people who arent even from the same community as me. Its ridiculous. Those people arent from the black community like that. If they didnt tell me off for it over the space of 30 years why the fuck would I listen to Gen Z tell me I cant. They can fook off.

[@JK_JK_JK]

Appropriation · ​[uncountable, singular] (formal or law) the act of taking something that belongs to somebody else, especially without permission. How can a culture be taken? Who does a culture belong to? Who can give permission?

[@sigmasiren7]

This is pure entitlement. The culture belongs to the ppl who inherited the practice.

[@connorpayne9356]

Stop calling these panels of people who agree debates

[@Competitive_Antagonist]

I'm guessing they should all hold black and white views?

[@holistichealthlifewellness2182]

Yeah, I was surprised that they all agreed.

[@supergreenkimmayong5488]

What part of the debate did they agree? The Compliment or Theft part?

[@owlnyc666]

They agree that it does exist they disagree on the details. Then there is the semantic rabbit hole.

[@owlnyc666]

Bottom line ITS COMPLICATED! Captain Obvious 😉

[@raymoose8568]

An old saying is (paraphrase) “Good poets borrow and Great poets steal” throughout history the mixing of cultural influences has created profoundly creative movements. Traditional culture can and should be preserved but the “influence”of tradition is fluid. Other wise the Arts are static.

[@datdudenosense]

NOTHING can be done about this...EVER! wasting your time.

[@minedminemind5656]

Scotland was founded around the 12th Century ADE. The Bible book of Daniel was written between 618-536 BCE. In chapter 3, there is mention of bagpipes in the time of King Nebuchadnezer around the worship of a golden statue

[@sophylasuh]

Its difficult to make out whether the members in the panel are for or against cultural appropriation because they are all in consensus

[@owlnyc666]

Did Christian's appropriate Jewish scripture? Did Muslims appropriate Jewish and Christian scripture?

[@owlnyc666]

You can steal a person's wealth, can you steal a persons culture?

[@DarkAngel2512]

@@owlnyc666 you cant steal something unless its patented or has a sole creator or atleast a small enough group that you could have/but didnt get permission from. Getting permission from millions from one demographic when its impossible and not necessary or you know thousands gave you permission already is not stealing.

[@hlalakar4156]

@@DarkAngel2512 Technically, copyright infringement isn't theft. Theft is taking someone else's property without their permission. When you steal something you are depriving the rightful owner of that object. If you violate copyright laws you haven't actually taken anything. You've just reproduced it without permission. This may sound pedantic, but legally it's an important point. Theft is a criminal act, while copyright infringement is generally settled in civil court.

[@DarkAngel2512]

@@hlalakar4156 thank you dor thr correction.

[@hlalakar4156]

Theft involves taking someone else's property. You can't steal abstract things like culture, or even books, music, and movies. (If you want to be pedantic you could steal A book or or CD or a DVD of a movie, but you can't steal the story or music itself). You can violate copyright laws, but that's legally distinct from theft and is usually a civil matter, not a criminal one. That's all academic anyway, since in the USA you can't copyright a culture. You can't even copyright most aspects of a culture. You could copyright a specific recording of a traditional song, but not the song itself if it has been in existence for a certain amount of time. You can't copyright a cuisine at all. You can't copyright a hairstyle at all, so I can wear dreads all I want. Traditional clothing, pottery, metalworking, jewelry, and art styles have been around for hundreds or even thousands of years, and so are in the public domain. Now excuse me while I go buy a Native American costume off of Amazon.

[@marygreer4036]

Very little has been said about how those who feel hurt by cultural appropriation are feeling HURT. There is a strong emotional content that was ignored or covered by non-emotional terms like ‘offended’. I’m not saying we have to avoid emotional pain in others, but not addressing emotions seems to be the elephant in the room. Other than that, I loved this discussion. I learned so much. Thank you.

[@lampad4549]

Just because your feelings are hurt doesn't mean you are in the right. And the word "offended" is an inherently emotional term. It was ignored because its stupid and arbitrary thing to talk about. Yeah we know your not saying to avoid the emotional pain in others, addressing them and treating them as inherently valid is what you are saying and that's stupid, these feelings as other people pointed out promote segregation with the pretence of moral righteousness.

[@r.bradshaw5870]

all cultures have fought to be accepted by other cultures for years, so stop complaining when it happens !

[@amanaskarizad]

the panel ignores the power dynamics of who looks or owns what and repeatedly goes around the problematics of it. I can't relate especially what Bijan Omrani tries to do from one particular historical narrative to our contemporary time which is totally affected by the colonial history that shaped the new power and economic order of the world! One sentence was good about the panel that it has this liberal tendency to justify the problematics.

[@IzabelParis]

Claire ‘s introduction is way too long, especially of the guests.

[@PPX14]

35:58 she pronounced buried the way I and my mother and sister do! No one does that! The only other time I've heard it is in a song by the German band Bonfire.

[@AMS-KORRE]

My general rule of thumb is if you are wearing it not to insult but celebrate instead crack on because ultimately if you do it well and respectful that community will be fine but what I have found is that at the centre of most offence to CaP is a purple haired white woman.

[@TheodoraKimmelHello]

I, speaking on behalf of myself and no one else, have thought the utilization of dreadlocks could possibly expedite the healing of obsessive hair pulling.

[@DoctorCiaran]

I'm currently living in Australia where, for all the admirable things about this society, the relationship between the white majority and the indigenous minority is not good. In fact it is terrible and a shock to see in 2018. Instinctively cultural appropriation seemed like a nonsense to me given that culture is, of course, constantly changing and always influenced from far afield. That said, there are many cases of cultural appropriation of indigenous culture in Australia that leaves the already deeply disenfranchised indigenous population materially out of pocket. The world is fascinated with their culture and wants to learn more and have artefacts of their creation, which is great, but often indigenous people are not profiting from that cultural sharing as they should. But I think that's the point, regardless of the history or the present situation it is whether or not there is a material exploitation involved. Where it does, it's pretty clearly a literal form of theft. But a white person with braids or a white person wearing a gifted daishiki is not materially harming anyone so it's not theft, so attempting to police that kind of natural cultural blending comes across as narcissistic at best and authoritarian at worst.

[@lemondewdrops470]

Its better to have knowledge of what your wearing or posses from other cultures. When you don't have that is when appropriation comes around not appreciation.

[@DarkAngel2512]

It's when they say mundane things like wearing your hair in braids or braid someone else's hair for money(which I've done for 25 years) is comparable that theyve stretched it to a really watered-down definition.

[@DarkAngel2512]

@@lemondewdrops470 cultural appropriation-to give, accept or take a culture. Most people of those cultures dont even know the history. Why should anyone else?

[@hlalakar4156]

@@DarkAngel2512 The whole idea is silly. You can't steal a culture. Stealing means you have deprived someone of their property. If I buy and wear a sombrero I haven't deprived the Mexicans of anything. They still have all their sombreros and can still wear them. If I wear dreadlocks I haven't taken a single hair from the head of a Rastafarian.

[@zacksmith2227]

no better than the drink tea bred and made in china but is now the UK's favourite drink.

[@Chichi-ez1xo]

The moderator comes off very defensive. May I suggest this book White fragility, because it seems like most of the audience and the panel where so afraid to address the intentions behind cultural appropriation. The last lady and Gentleman who posed questions ("The struggles being neglected and discrimination" and "the nazi uniform just because its cute") were the only two people who really deconstructed the context of cultural appropriation. Understand the difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation.

[@DarkAngel2512]

White Fragility is a great piece of comedy writing.

[@Judel100]

Bijan's presentation was excellent.

[@owlnyc666]

False dichotomy? Theft and compliment?

[@DarkAngel2512]

Yep. I was taught how to braid by a halfcaste girl so the culture was given to me. Giving is a form of appropriation aswell. So there are 3 ways. Or 4 if we go for unconscious assimilation of what is in your wider culture.

[@charleighblue]

The mediator was honestly one of the worst I've ever seen. She came into a debate about cultural appropriation not understanding the idea of cultural appreciation and took her lead from there. Sameer Rahim was the saviour of this debate, Kunle Olulode was the most neutral with really good sides to share and Dr Sarah Cheang seemed to understand the subtle complexities behind it better than anyone. I think I have 2 new wrinkles just from watching this. Wow. The audience members. You allowed right wing racist thought to dominate. EWW.

[@DarkAngel2512]

Where was the racism? I'm white and left-wing and I agreed with majority of the panel.

[@jman4668]

Kunle is a fool. No one on the panel is qualified to speak on cultural appropriation.

[@owlnyc666]

What are these qualifications? Even if they were not qualified they can still speak about it? 😀

[@gregchavez1534]

Indeed what qualifications -- other than being of and living among the species Homo sapiens -- are required to speak on any topic related to culture? You're making an arbitrary value judgement, likely derived from your preferred viewpoints.