Cybertruck Seat Analysis: Did Tesla Miss the Mark?

[@cosmocalisse]

Nice to see some healthy criticism again!

[@johnalley8397]

Carl is my favorite Monro engineer. Articulate, knowledgable and extremely telegenic. Remember - they did actually rush this thing out the door. Seems to me that some of the non critical components may be in early generations and due to be optimized. "When in doubt, make it stout, out of things you know about."

[@youtubecommenter-on9kd]

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they broke down another Cybertruck in two years time and many or most of these issues are resolved

[@bastifantasti82]

And he has a very pleasant voice, i could listen to him for hours. Sorry Sandy.

[@Martinmack333]

it was rushed out the door after 4 years of development?? Good thing they didn't take their time!

[@dporrasxtremeLS3]

Agreed! Large People who weigh over 245 and way more pounds absolutely Need this type of seat framework! When vehicles like trucks driven hard and offroad, they Need this type of strength to keep a heavy person in control of a 8500 pound vehicle.

[@steamtorch]

I own one. The seats are indeed, very comfortable. Are they overbuilt? Well imagine 4 Carls riding in one, doing it's Baja mode thing, off road.

[@b4804514]

That happens in a FORD F150 or 250 or 350 That cheap seat frame is in all of them. It is Ford junk but still works.

[@user-roadwander]

@@b4804514 Cost effective.

[@freeaccess5905]

Yes, and getting towed back into town.

[@thesadboxman]

Usually Tesla's 1st gen of a new model are inefficiently built (ie. see Sandy's review of Model 3 when it initially came out. Model Y was based off model 3 so it already started off from a good base by 2020). Likely these choices were made to guarantee functionality and safety, but not build efficiency. Elon has stated on earnings calls that the team now has to go through cost reduction of every component in the Cybertruck to be able to further scale production. If these issues pointed out are economically disadvantageous, it is certain that Tesla will change them.

[@jbsherlock2675]

Regarding the casting version of the riser vs the stamped version topic: it’s more than just a dollar per part equation. Factory footprint is apart of that math, how much space do the various stamping machines need, how many people need to operate them. They need to get welded which is another machine/process/people. What is the throughput at volume of stamping vs having it injection molded. Price parity only carries the conversation so far at Tesla as they move more towards automated build workflow and reducing factory footprint.

[@Radium3D]

Tesla Model S did have an adjustable headrest actually, way back :) I had a loaner with one. It was electronic though.

[@maxisp1000]

When you're much taller than other people that drive the vehicle. the headrests must absolutely be adjustable. How hard is adding two more notches and a release?

[@harriettanthony7352]

'Hard'? not at all, its the COST that dictates the fixed headrest. I would GUESS the headrest frames are 'off the shelf' from "Ho Chi Minhs' EV parts supplies.

[@89bazoly]

@@harriettanthony7352he specifically showed that it has all the components for it to be adjustable (in case of Model Y), it is even chromed. Just a few more notches are needed and something to press. If Ho Chi Minh has this on the shelf, they probably have it with 3 notches as well

[@michaeldautel7568]

Why not move the whole back up from the bottom if a tall person needs the headrest raised? Seems simpler with min cost doable.🤔

[@FreekHoekstra]

Honestly i wish it would be made adjustable, negligable cost for significant user benefit (atleast for taller people)

[@wtmayhew]

My bet is that Engineering By Lawyers drove the decision to make the headrest non adjustable. There is probably a finite chance that an idiot could set the headrest inappropriately and get a whiplash injury in a crash. My question is how did Ford and others successfully argue to their lawyers that adjustability is OK? I’ve owned two cars with one piece seat backs and both were reasonably comfortable without a headrest. ‘98 NMW Z3 snd and a ‘01 Honda Insight. The simplicity of the seat backs give me the impression that they would be able to successfully deal with crash energy without falling apart.

[@collins.l454]

Great video! People focus on price patterns, but volume is often ignored. I've been learning more about it and think combining volume with price action really improves technical analysis!

[@FreemanJameZ]

can you share what you focus on in volume analysis?

[@collins.l454]

Look at aspects like historical volume, price fluctuations, and critical support and resistance levels. Monitoring volume as a stock approaches these levels is essential. Knowing broader market trends is also important-i got some help from my advisor on this, which has greatly enhanced my technique

[@Sagatemplate]

Totally agree! it made a big difference for me too.

[@LouisMorganxb3]

How do you find a good advisor? I could use more insight

[@collins.l454]

There are many out there. “Leah Foster Alderman” for example is very experienced and consistent. I go with her

[@jonasgranlund4427]

Hi there, I never thought there was a single thing I could ever know that Carl hadn't already a masters in, but regarding adjustable head rest on front Seat (comment at 11:27), in my Model S it is possible to press the lumbar support and then a popup show up and if you click that you change from raising/lowing lumbar to raising/lowering head-rest instead. This clip show it perfectly well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3usqHeCmtSkhbM&ab_channel=SendItMedia Otherwise Carl is absolutely spot on as usual :) Great work!

[@jasonmugridge]

I never knew that, thanks for pointing it out.

[@tedg1609]

Great ideas to simplify and cost-trim the seat design !

[@MunroLive]

Glad you like them!

[@billybobbob3003]

@@MunroLive tesla missed the mark they cannot build true a million vehicle like 2007 honda crv with k24 engines 1 million miles same engine that runs runs 5 seconds in 1/4 mile with billet blocks. there isnt a single true 1 million mile original battery/electric motors tesla on the road. electronic trash will never be more reliable than mechanical and an engineer should know this.

[@billybobbob3003]

@@MunroLive I TOLD YOU CASTINGS SUCK LOOK @ WHISTLIN DIESELS CYBERTRUCK VIDEO HE LITERALLY RIPS THE REAR CASTING WITH HITCH STILL ATTACHED TO THE CASTING OFF THE TRUCK TRYING TO PULL ANOTHER TRUCK THATS STUCK.face-blue-smiling

[@danfoley1429]

@@billybobbob3003 FALSE. He broke the casting when it came slamming down from several feet and landed with full weight on the rear bumper early on in the video. No vehicle would have come out of that undamaged. Check other videos which show what actually happened. Clearly no bumper frame is designed for such an event, casting or not, most would have broken outright and the casting was more durable.

[@billybobbob3003]

@@danfoley1429 a regular truck frame wouldnt of broke like that castings are brittle. same reason high horsepower engines are cnc machined billet blocks stronger than castings. stamped metal is stronger than castings also cause its more flexable/bendable.

[@14energy]

New. M3P seats are the best tesla seats Ive sat on

[@rayc.8555]

As a CT owner i really like the seats. they are very comfortable. To make a seat that will fit all the body types out there is next to impossible.

[@vercingetorige400]

that's why you build some adjustability in the seat

[@cengeb]

Nope,real vehicles have lots of adjustments. Tesla can't even do the basics proply it's a very poor mfg. Company

[@davidbeppler3032]

​@@cengeb What is the safety rating on your vehicle? Tesla is number 1-5 on the safest cars chart.

[@cengeb]

@@davidbeppler3032 On mars? mine is 5 stars , and built to a much higher standard

[@websitemartian]

@@cengebif you continue to huff copium like that , you may die

[@CharlesPare]

Carl, you're the best in front of the camera. It's so fun and interesting and educational!

[@cooluser23]

I totally forgot about your Cybertruck content already. Been forever since KZbin recommended me your videos. You should a video on how Tesla's engineers are coping with all the Cybertruck quality control issues ans how you would do it better.

[@bartdeking]

And then to think that CT will be profitable at the end of the year. Can you imagine when they reduce the cost of the seating how much they will make.

[@user-to2rf1rj5v]

5:35 aesthetics are very important to Tesla. They definitely wanted this look over a plastic shroud. Worth it, I love my CT's seat aesthetic.

[@appl314]

If I understand correctly light trucks do not have to pass the crash levels of a passenger car. Ford/GM may be using less structural strength because they are not meeting passenger safety standard.. could the additional strength of The cybertruck be for meeting higher crash test standards?

[@ntsecrets]

I have 2 thoughts to explain the castings. 1. They had to meet some crazy crash safety requirement that isn’t present in the vehicles with the stamped parts. 2. Elon just said make it out of a casting.

[@bio_stack]

Maybe the 10mm plate is a counterweight so the seat stays folded up? Regardless the rear seat structure with the casting below it seems super redundant

[@boostav]

Yeah I'd rather see them remove the casting below it as that would free up a lot of room when the rear seats are folded up.

[@gadgetmerc]

the seat locks down and up. Weight added to the hinge point has very little moment. In context of the entire seat, it would have to be several inches thick.

[@HourRomanticist]

I've been waiting for this episode ever since Carl broke down the model s seats

[@dennisfahey2379]

You are looking at CT V1.0. They got it to production with a lot of new ideas. Now you build it and evaluate where you can improve it and reduce costs for 2.0. I found the adjustable headrest comments interesting. Not a challenge because your points are valid but I don't think I've ever adjusted a headrest. It sits back awaiting a collision and not much more.

[@harriettanthony7352]

It seems as if that WAS the first use and function of 'head restraints ' as they were first termed, just 'there' in the event of an accident.

[@oisiaa]

What about the seat cooling system?????? How does it work?

[@seancollins9745]

I'd probably use a high pressure die casting for Tesla's entire seat line for all vehicles and engineer a bunch of upper and lower frames that are modular with different seat foam build etc packing

[@roadtoad919]

My model X has adjustable head rests.

[@garyankney2456]

This is the first time I have heard breakdown review where costing analysis was NOT done prior to broadcasting.

[@HourRomanticist]

I've seen a few

[@squee8174]

Excellent breakdown Carl! No one knows interiors better. Glad to see you back at munro

[@jamesengland7461]

Carl, while that portion of the seat frame looks like it's a cm thick, when you held and moved it over the bracket it rests on, it seemed like you were able to easily carry it one handed with a light grip, suggesting that it's not actually very heavy overall. Could it be hollow, 2 stampings for example, and just be well-disguised by the coating? Just guessing.

[@techiheed1845]

Great to see you again. Good tear down info!

[@MunroLive]

Thanks for watching!

[@patrickalpe1867]

Always great insights from Carl

[@jamesengland7461]

Fair and honest criticism. Nothing wrong with that! Tesla can, and it likely already, improve upon this.

[@Aztasu]

They don't give a f. They only care about their own profits not about the cheaply build products and not about the customers who have to deal with all the flaws

[@user-roadwander]

@@Aztasu Don’t buy one.

[@NotTubeIm]

@@Aztasulol you didn’t watch the video did you? The criticism was that it was over built

[@mfroom]

Yup... Carl is the best, reveals many insights from his experience that are deep in the fundamental engineering of products.

[@rtz549]

Look at the back seat on an '87 Mustang. A piece of pressboard like found on the back of an old TV or Stereo. A piece of foam and a cloth cover.

[@cardonman]

LOL! You’re so right!😝👍🏽

[@carvalhoribeiro]

The detailed explanation, comments and insights are fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing this.

[@carloscubas2824]

I imagine that maybe seats are being redesigned for non-Foundation Series. My first idea will be to modify the rear backing plate of the cabin in order to combine the seat structure to the body in white. Next I will update front seat metal structure to be single piece.

[@NotTubeIm]

Taking in my Cybertruck tomorrow for a pretty bad driver seat squeaky noise and got notified of this video.

[@sasjadevries]

These design decisions are even contradicting each other: If you're making a one-off car, or a low volume run, then overbuilding could make sense (i.e. do less optimisation), jerry rigging a fixed headrest onto a moving headrest frame could make sense; but then they make an injection mould where it's not needed (which would only pay off in high volume production runs). As if the engineers asked their boss: hey, do you want more of a one-off car, or a mass-production ready car? Boss' answer: "Yes". 🤦‍♂🤦‍♀

[@peterlecraw8301]

The 1cm thick plate steel might be there as a 'backup' for submarining in case the cast aluminum touch down surface. That aluminum is a brittle failure point and FEA might have indicated it was a potential fracture point. I doubt it, but we saw what happened when Whistlin Diesel sheared the bumper off of one of these. That aluminum is quite brittle.

[@lowspeed2000]

Is it possible that this is done for crash predictability? (as in they already know how this will behave in a crash)

[@Dularr]

The adjustable head rest is a safety feature. I suspect Tesla determined most owners don't adjust the head rest.

[@andrewvercillo7584]

I have never adjusted my headrest in my entire 45 year life in many many cars!

[@vercingetorige400]

welcome to the 50% percentile of male height

[@Lost_In_LA]

I’m afraid adjustable headrests are just another fail point. I tugged on my Mercedes’ headrest while stretching and a component in the headrest popped. Now I drive the vehicle with a broken headrest because it costs over a grand to repair.

[@howlereves3281]

Agreed an adjustable headrest would be welcome in all Tesla’s

[@TeslaRon]

Cast the seat back into the rear casting and the eliminate the metal back. And make one insert with all the foam and pop that into the back wall.

[@Lararius123]

I see a seat video, I'm already giddy to see Carl explain it to me :D

[@robertsharp781]

I wonder if they’re utilizing scrap from the larger castings to produce the front seat risers; it is definitely still heavy, but might not necessarily be greater cost.

[@markplott4820]

MUNRO carl - the Cybertruck truck seats are Higher , because they are on very ROBUST cast rails, unlike Tesla car seats. they are also Directly mounted to the Structural battery pack, as in the former model Y. MY is also on CAST rails , but not as tall.

[@MattPeterson-w6m]

you should check out the C-Cab back on the Tundra if you want to see an even simpler metal frame

[@MickeyMouse-kh2gj]

Have you driven or rode in Cybertruck, I have one ,love it

[@georgepelton5645]

Carl is the master at thoughtful analysis and commentary. Thanks for another great video.

[@freeaccess5905]

Nice analysis. Brings back some credibility in calling it just as you see it.

[@KnowArt]

please react to the Whistling Diesel thing where he broke off the hitch by breaking the back casting. seems very damning, but maybe not?

[@aaronyoder121]

He slamed the whole truck on the bumper coming off the tube's. A scenario that would likely never happen in normal use. But it would be cool if they acknowledge it and beef up the 2nd Gen cyber truck.

[@legobis4484]

Any chance these castings are part of the mega-casting process...like the mold includes more parts than just the giant truck body?

[@ricmrodrigues]

Up until 2018 or 2019 Model S had an adjustable headrest. They removed that feature like the sunroof

[@trampfossil]

why don't they make a storage drawer or box under the seats?

[@Curryolla]

I have a suspicion (I'm no expert, but I'm making a hypothesis) the headrests are common design with other car companies for whiplash lessening technology. That said, Tesla could (and likely should) redesign a common seat structure among all their cars that incorporates the whiplash feature.

[@Mkyfas]

Carl is the best! 🥳 More videos with Carl please! 😉

[@keithscherer7865]

My idea is one seat across fleet. 1. Castings for each seat instead of. Multi welding lines for each seat and side and vehicle

[@pranavid]

Before I begin to watch this analysis, my feedback is that CT seats are uncomfortable. They don't have the hip curve and flatness of the seat makes it hurt over long sitting. While the model Y seats are so cozy, I didn't like CT seats. Also the headrest pushed my head in an awkward angle, but that is totally height dependent. Now watching...

[@danharold3087]

If a seat fit your perfectly chances are there are just as many people who hate it. I have a wide back. Very few bucket seats are comfortable. Prefer a bench or better yet split bench. Seats in the mind 90s town cars a great.

[@pranavid]

@danharold3087 All I wanted to say is that CT seats are a huge downgrade from Model Y and Model S seats missing the saddle curves and softness.

[@kevinsears4779]

On the Model Y rear seats, it is a real pain to install the rear the belt with buckle of a child’s car seat is difficult to pass between posts of the rear headrest with a single adjustment adjustment. Now, with Cybertruck with a non-adjustable headrest seems impossible. BAD TESLA BAD…

[@martinmajewski27]

I was involved in the past in the design of VW/Audi car seat development. But what I see at the 10:27 minute mark of this video is that Tesla is only using copy-paste solutions. This is hilarious.

[@Coliniminingnews-x7c]

Very nice analysis indeed, thanks!

[@mr.e1944]

I bet the next CT in the production line had different seat structure. Tesla designs on the fly.

[@kevtheobald]

Would be interesting if Tesla had their lead engineer gove their feedback. Tesla might be trying to do things differently, but if older methods are better, do it the old way.

[@concinnus]

Agreed, it does seem overbuilt and overcomplicated. Some would call this overengineered, but I'd call it underengineered. They didn't put in the time to optimize it.

[@NelsonJOrtiz]

Maybe they will use the same seat riser for the Van product

[@nononsenseBennett]

Good honest review. I agree the seats are overkill

[@user-pq8tf3oq8e]

Most trucks use square steel box to mount seat trake to

[@markplott4820]

MUNRO - what's NOT to like ? Tesla has eliminated mounting brackets, onto more brackets. Tesla also reduced total PARTS count, wields, joining, and Fastener count. you should be LOVING it.

[@geft]

Thanks to Carl for another informative and honest assessment. He always does a great job. I fear that the comments will get ugly from the Tesla fanboys though. 😢

[@MunroLive]

Thanks!

[@ingemarmoen6062]

I hope the next iteration will let the seats and mid console drop down to the floor so you can roll out a big mattress and take advantage of camp mode. The truck bed is for cargo.

[@cengeb]

German vehicle seats always win. Benz pioneered orthopedic designs based on sciences

[@jamieclarke321]

Cant beat a good munro video, dont know of anywhere else where you can get this indepth technical analysis of products

[@indopleaser]

Great videos on this channel. More then just an EV car channel

[@MunroLive]

We are an engineering channel! 😀

[@GearboxEnt]

For what it's worth, my 2017 Model S seats have power-adjustable headrests

[@joshuaw2143]

Those were the Best seats

[@seekerstan]

Is the tesla seat more comfortable? That's 15:44 the prime directive for a seat.

[@user-fl4pi2ut9c]

Great video, I wish you guys posted on Rumble though so I don't have to come to KZbin to watch. It's unfortunate that either as much innovation as this truck has, they didn't fix the seat head rest issues you guys mentioned a long time ago.

[@othmanskn]

Agree 100%.

[@zodiacfml]

I think Tesla thinks that adjustable headrest does not make sense for its main function for rear collisions, which I quite agree. However, I noticed that an adjustable headrest allows more air flow/movement around my neck. I think I like that as main feature of an adjustable head rest vs fixed

[@michaelmackey754]

Carl..You are the best… The only one I watch on Monroe in associates… Thank you

[@user-roadwander]

Tolerance is in short supply.

[@philipp594]

Cost will be comparable at higher volume, you avoid tolerances stack up with one part. I assume they were using this part to test something or wanted to use another material, when they designed it. Maybe magnesium? I would really like to know if the cast parts are much easier to install and if they make the sliders much easier / smoother to operate.

[@darylfortney8081]

Dude needs to consult directly with Tesla

[@jeffharmed1616]

Rule 1. Concept component must be over designed

[@colinmackie5211]

If there rear seat back is immovable, could they have simply made the whole back with one piece of molded foam. Maybe there would have to be some embedded plastic bits for also and structure. What is the purpose of all the metalwork?

[@Chas_Reno]

Fair evaluation.

[@airheart1]

My 2017 Tesla’s headrest adjusts, electronically even.. not a manual adjustment. They move up/down, and i believe forward/aft if i remember right, through a screen function.. i think i moved it once in the 7 years, saved it to my profile, and never touched it again. I’ll bet Tesla looked at how seldom they are moved.. and decided, we save money and parts by taking out all the moving parts and just put them in a middle position that will suit like 90% of users

[@qa8578]

love it when some random dude gives tesla "feedback",,,,

[@rtz549]

They need a piece of foam that snaps into that metal panel that is in the back of the cab.

[@marvinsylver8840]

My 2017 model s has electric adjustable headrest.

[@rb8049]

Excellent job! Hopefully Tesla takes some ideas and implements before ramping lower cost versions.

[@GarretL757]

MY 2nd row headrest move...albeit not enough. Interesting if they carry over the parts list in front to appease the movable in back.

[@chrisbraid2907]

Good Review, I’d love one of those seats to fit to the mobile base in my Den. My Porsche 924 Seat is past it …

[@BacaraBuffalo]

Is it possible they just cast it with the main casting so cost is much cheaper? One mold/die for most parts?

[@arsni23]

Tesla startet the COP stuff. Package in the shelf. Here you go mr. Designer with your fancy sketch.

[@Nphen]

I could tell there must be extra weight in Cybertruck when I saw the specs compared to other trucks with bigger batteries. I hope Tesla finds some good improvements over the next year or so. I'm waiting to buy one until the price comes down. It would be great if they made a better-looking Cybertruck2, but they would wait until last minute (2028) to announce, if it ever happens. Where's a Model Y-size truck? Ford Maverick is looking appealing. Especially now you can get a 4k tow package for the hybrid. That would let me tow a decent camper or a 1.5 ton piece of equipment.

[@thankscraig8361]

Thanks so much World Peace

[@markplott4820]

Nuke Palestine,🇮🇷💣

[@plumbandsquare1]

The back of the seat frame probably needs to be plastic in case the rear passenger hits the seat durring a crash.

[@alanl3511]

Drove a cybertruck last Thursday… I’m 6’ and it was just as comfortable as the seat in my performance model S… I guess if your too tall you should look for a different vehicle…lol…

[@claudioVertiz]

😮They have 3D scanned each part of the Cybertruck. That analysis will be spectacular.. 🙂 And cost an arm and a leg.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

I went and sat in the CT's seat. It sucked when compared to their own model 3. The seat also needs to be wider. My advice is to narrow the center console and make the seats wider and with similar design to model 3 as to bolstering.

[@danharold3087]

Seating comfort is a very personal things.

[@celeron55]

Some people are saying the seats need to be wider, some are saying they need to be narrower. I think that means they nailed it.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

@@celeron55 Possibly. I have had a reservation for a CT but think I'll be passing on it when my number comes up. We'll see.

[@schnecks2180]

The start of every problem: Studio says.......

[@free_spirit1]

When I saw the 10mm steel I had to do a double take. It looks a bit like a temporary solution, kind of like the 3d printed parts they had on the HVAC housing in the 2020 model Y. Maybe it was supposed to be stampings but maybe something went awry with the tooling or something, and while they fix it they ship this as a temporary fix instead. But who knows, I haven't seen the FEA 🤷‍♂️