5 THINGS I LIKE AND DISLIKE ABOUT RIVALS OF AETHER 2

[@booniedapure]

100% agree with the kill power. There have been a lot of moments for me where I could "feel" the kill and it just didn't happen. At this point that could just come down to lack of game knowledge, but something about kill power doesn't seem intuitive.

[@l.n.3372]

Watching the past 2 coin box, I've seen moments where I was shocked a move didn't KO.

[@GammaFn.]

- Rivals DI is significantly stronger than Ult - Blastzone distances vary more - Kill confirms aren't optimized

[@powerowl2120]

Idk coming from rivals one the stages felt way smaller. People were getting smacked up and packed up at like 80% if not earlier. Yeah, some of that was bad DI, but man. Idk. Maypul down strong used to kill bro, I swear. Now it just tickles and you gotta edgeguard... with ledges? Huh?

[@thuroria7631]

It's called DI.

[@Frichilsasta08]

Directional influence or DI. It's most effective in melee and operates similarly to melee

[@tubesism]

2 things I’m struggling with: It feels like you gotta know your setups or every character has martharitis. Why can’t my basic aerials as wrastor or ranno kill at like 150%? Also, it feels like everyone who gives a shit about the game has already been playing for multiple months. I’ve been playing melee competitively for over a decade and I’m getting cooked in silver! I can’t imagine what the experience must be like for someone with no platform fighter experience.

[@L3thalShad0ws7]

Agreed. As an avid B-air enjoyer in Smash, its crazy how weak that move feels in this game, for multiple chars. And I knew this game would be pretty sweaty, but goddamn... Like I was never a hardcore competitive player, but ive played Smash titles all my life, so I thought I could at least hang in unranked online... but nope, even in casual-beginner I'm getting absolutely mollywhopped! But thats probably just ppl smurfing/warming up, either way im still bad lol

[@alcomedianblobfish]

The problem is that there are like 7 thousand people who got the game early via Kickstarter (including yours truly, although I'm still quite bad), and since they're going to be playing more than anyone else at any given time at least half of the playerbase is people who've been playing for months. I expect that it'll improve as the game grows and new blood joins, but right now the playerbase is just very distilled.

[@jinto_reedwine]

As far as new people joining who weren't in the beta, I used to be worried about that, but my 8 year old son is able to get on ranked and find people his skill level when he only played the beta with me for like, 30 minutes one time. I agree that there are a ton of experienced players already, but there seem to also be enough new players that folks will be able to learn without getting bodied.

[@tubesism]

@ I will say I took a break for about a week and came back, and it seems the ranks have spread out a bit.

[@renatothorne1163]

man i play ranno and it has MAD killpower

[@l.n.3372]

I like the alt colors for characters. Axolotl orcane is very cute.

[@2Namii]

The alternate costumes are amazing. I'm not a fan of the rgb colors though.

[@l.n.3372]

@@2Namii I do not own the game. Can you explain how those costumes exist? Are they like sold in packs? How many alt colors does every character come with?

[@l_iz_lgndry0118]

⁠@@l.n.3372 the costumes are sold in the store. You can use money whenever to buy them, or wait for them to appear in the coin store, which changes daily and in which you can use currency gained from simply playing matches. There are packs for them, but they mostly just include a chat emote and a user icon which really aren’t that needed. Some more special skins also change the victory theme for your character and even some of your specials. For example, Kragg, who throws rocks, has a soccer skin that also makes his rocks look like soccer balls.

[@spaceace9103]

Each character as 3 alt colors, other alts and skins can be bought in the shop ​@@l.n.3372

[@ohmygodthelag9196]

@@l.n.3372open store that has every cosmetic in game open for purchase thier is no rotation

[@EquinoxDoodles]

Not sure if it was ever said in the comments but the reason Clairen feels vanilla is because that was her intended design. Rivals 1 had a lot of interesting but sometimes hard for people to pick-up and play characters. Ranno and Clairen were meant to be easy characters for people to bridge into the game, Clairen was namely added because of a demand for a swordie.

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

Exactly, every RoA character has a gimmick that affects how they play on the stage. Fors has his smoke, Orcane has his puddle, Ranno has bubble, something they can set down and you have to respect it. But Clairen's is that her energy field turns off many of those mechanics. Not only does she play vanilla, she forces the other characters to play vanilla too. Which is a fun idea for a character, unironically.

[@powerowl2120]

​@@user-et3xn2jm1ueven Ranno's isn't even as much of a stage gimmick as the rest of the cast though. Rarely do they put a bubble down on stage and actively try to hit you into it. His stage control kinda just comes in the traditional form, good long buttons and prodding projectiles. Him and Clairen are kinda the anti rivals and I hate them for it lmao.

[@patrickhayes1724]

@@powerowl2120just give me back my shovel knight and I’ll be happy man

[@powerowl2120]

@@patrickhayes1724 I'm sorry bro nut your trolling days with him are relegated to rivals 1 exclusively

[@wildmonkeycar]

Kill power does feel a bit off, in this game. It felt phenomenal in R1, but moves like Clairen's UpAir and UpB don't kill sometimes right next to the top blast zone at 100+, but then NAir will just come out of nowhere and kill off the side at like 90

[@NetullaGD]

DI in this game is broken lmao, let's you live for so much longer. Up air and up b are very affected by DI I believe

[@RKzero10]

My main issue with Floorhugging (keep in mind it is different with CC) is that it last too long at high percents. I hate using it too

[@viccreator]

curious thing is that I didnt see people abusing with FH in the last tournament.

[@PurposeDriven7_]

@@viccreatorEXACTLY, people are up in arms about this mechanic but I see very hardly any abuse of it affecting gameplay, especially in tournament.

[@huh1987]

​@@PurposeDriven7_ Because they mostly use moves that go around it

[@punkypony5165]

@@huh1987 Exactly. Floorhugging is a complete non issue because there's so many ways to just punish it.

[@whitekj03]

All of my characters get to 40 - 60+ % off grabs near 0, I tend to prioritize those at early % if my opponent shows proficiency with floor hugging after the 1st stock. Doesn't really fck with the game plan as much as you'd think.

[@manasgarg2058]

Great video, I agree that floor hugging probably should be balanced better and that some of the kill power of certain moves should be adjusted. Hopefully these are things that can be fixed soon and I have a ton of faith in the team to do so. And the rivals team gotta get that free battle pass thing out soon because I will play this game so much just for skins that aren't just color swaps like smash and are skins for an actually good platform fighter.

[@Beastmd]

Core Reason why there’s animosity from rivals players in the most basic way (not trying to be petty or rude): they are fundamentally very upset that we didn’t latch on to rivals 1 with all its uniqueness, and because of that they feel like Dan made the game more like smash to finally get us to join. It’s a fact that rivals 1 was not doing very well towards the end of its lifecycle (normal) and that if Dan made rivals 2 like they wanted (drift di, pixel art, no shields or ledges, wall jump out of prat fall) the numbers would not be nearly as good as they are now. Not only do they resent Dan for not just making rivals 2 like they wanted, but they resent us for finally joining at the wrong time, so they are annoyed at everything we do

[@atropa4111]

And you know this how?

[@PrepareToHi]

bear in mind that while this is true, this is a very vocal minority of rivals 1 players with this opinion. the vast majority of rivals 1 old heads are hyped for this game and all its newfound popularity

[@theelsanto32]

@@atropa4111would you like his sources and his anecdotes? Perhaps a bibliography and reference page?

[@FHGryphonIRL]

I don’t really have anyone that I direct my feelings at but as a rivals 1 player for a long time I am both happy that rivals 2 is getting love and disappointed. I loved rivals because I personally think grabs, shields, and even ledge grabs are lame. I just don’t like them. I’m glad the characters still feel like themselves for the most part though. I’m just upset that it doesn’t feel like an evolution of its mechanics but rather a smash game with rivals characters in it. Atleast we kept hitfall lol. And I am still playing the game I think it’s great.

[@_WiZ420]

@@atropa4111It's only in reference to those who are firmly deep into negativity bias. Every situation has an exception law, but this original comment was likely targeted at a hate group within the criticisms of the community

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

5 things I like: Clairen, Fleet, Ranno, Orcane, and Game feel 5 things I dislike: Zetterburn, Krag, Maypul, Forsburn, Wrastor

[@UmJammerSully]

True Neutral Loxodont?

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

@@UmJammerSully Yes. He hasn't got on my nerves but I can't say I like him. He's just alright by me

[@drdepression4605]

Liking fleet and Ranno is cringe. 😬 -a kragg main until hodan drops

[@crankheart]

clairen fleet and ranno are my top 3 behated what

[@shaybaah5883]

I have the most fun fighting Zetterburn. He seems like the most honest character in the game

[@_ERR_404_]

smash players when they get a variety of legal stages to play although on a more serious note, I really do enjoy the variety of legal stages, whenever I play ultimate with my friends, all the stages become the same and its very refreshing to have the stages force you to adapt your play style on floorhugging, I don't think it should be removed (as other people pointed out its not even abused much at tournaments) but its really something that not amazing in it's current form and should really be looked at and be made more polished and on the community, yea it's not great, its a shame too, as the game is really trying to be inclusive to everyone, as tutorials are in the works and the new player option is front and center on the main menu, and the movement is easy and intuitive compared to some thing like melee. My hunch is that its the melee community that the loud bunch, but that comes from the fact that I have a background in Rivals 1 and didn't see it too much there, and also the fact that the common response to crouch canceling in the discord is "its not that bad compared to melee" and "get good"

[@Victinitotodilepro]

8:04 consider yourself an opp

[@bluyu]

I don't see an issue with floorhugging at earlier %s, but it definitely lasts a bit long. There are a few reasons as to why this is the case. Even though ASDI down and crouch canceling were weakened from Melee to Rivals 2, moves across the board are weaker than they are in Melee, both in hitstun and knockback, effectively undoing these changes. Additionally, because character-stage collisions work differently in Rivals than they do in Melee. In Melee, the character can sometimes clip a little bit into the stage before becoming grounded, but in this game, snapping to the ground occurs from higher up. This results in tech windows being earlier and more lenient wavedash windows (which is one of the reasons the movement feels so buttery smooth). However, this also likely reduces the distance you'd have to teleport via SSDI or ASDI to being grounded after the hitlag of an attack. The effectiveness of ASDI is and has been half of that of normal SSDI/SDI. When you factor in crouch canceling (CC), the combined knockback and hitstun reduction from both CC and SSDI/ASDI down allows to you survive strong attack at very high percents with a timed input. This isn't a problem, however, as it has to be done while actionable and is basically just an inferior version of shielding. The problem is that the ASDI down part works even after getting parried or during rolls and spotdodges. Being able to do it during attacks is a bit of a trickier topic imo, so I won't get into that. I think giving some characters more ways to beat floorhugging would be beneficial, but then again, literally every character can capitalize off of grab.

[@killaknight12]

I got T-bagged in my first ever match in the demo. Also everyone was playing close to Elite-Smash level and was wavedashing around (I never played Melee or Rivals 1 so I haven't learned yet). Neither the community nor the matchmatking seems very newcomer friendly. Also I started very basic with Clairen, but overall it felt a bit clunky to me. There were many times when I wanted to jump or attack after landing and it just ate my input. Maybe it's endlag or there isn't much input buffering going on, but it sometimes didn't feel as smooth as I'd like to have it, though that's just a very minor personal issue for now. Overall it seems really fun.

[@vwxyz345]

The ranked matchmaking will improve as more matches are played

[@jeffreyzhao9156]

There is much less buffer in this game so you can't just hold down the jump button like you can in ult, you have to time it a bit better

[@KrispyKorpse]

Man of many names: Dan fornace, Daniel Fornaniel, Dan furance, etc

[@sebtrainwoo]

Dan Fortnite guy

[@mjdevlog]

Dan Salvato

[@powerowl2120]

That last point is very pertinent for rivals one guys. I swear that community is so hit or miss. Some people are chill, others are weird, and a lot more than id like have been cold at best and just straight jerks. Idk, i know its just my experience, but I stopped playing the first game cause I found a much better community in Vsav. For some people, the people who play the game really matters

[@NoshuHyena]

There's also a huge problem with toxicity towards players simply for who they play. Like calling someone braindead for playing x, y, or z character, or @ing them on Discord after a match to say they got carried by the sword cat. It's okay to dislike a character's design, but extending that to the player is totally unacceptable.

[@Sadboiiz98]

Yeah, I think knockback growth needs to be looked at. Playing Ultimate and thinking about like Samus or Falcon dash attacks. They aren't kill moves outright like charge shot or falcon up smash, but if you keep winning neutral, dash attack becomes a kill move for both questions because of knockback scaling. When that's missing it feels horrible

[@druidofthewolf5996]

A lot of the recovery abilities were made with there being no ledge in mind since the first one did not have ledges

[@MykeondaMic]

nice. yea this game gonna be poppin once the roster fills out and the offline content is there for chill vibes. do wish aether bucks were a little easier to come by. but i can overlook that. for 30 dollars, and im guarenteed like 8+ dlc characters, pretty hard to complain even if i have to wait a long time. some of those cosmetics be a little too tempting tho at my wallet.

[@drdepression4605]

Characters should all be free in this game. Money only goes towards cosmetics

[@cyprienramis1304]

As another ult player that main Orcane I agree on everything, especially floorhug, this shit goes against all the laws of fighting games, Rivals 2 (and plat fighters in general) already have a ton of defensive options (shield, parry, spotdodge, air dodge, roll, shmovement), even one that can be used AFTER being hit, it being DI. But at least DI isn't an automatic out of combo, it is reactable to, it's just a way to diminish how much damage you take from a neutral loss that require skill and adaptation to the specific situation you're in, to the specific move you've been hit by. But floorhug is straight up a free reversal, on reaction, that you can do no matter the state you're in. You could have just whiffed a strong (which is already hard to punish due to the overly low end lag) and do it to get out of a neutral loss that you 100% deserved. And in top of that it reduces the list of moves you can use in neutral, making some moves that were already only used in neutral completely unusable, just not a fun mechanic.

[@PennyFizz]

3:34 you can actually do this technique fairly easily and consistently, it just requires either a shield pivot or empty pivot. Coming from melee, I find it to be very forgiving

[@zachywatcher2312]

For projectiles, they were buffed from rivals 1 because in rivals 1 you had no consistent way to counter them without shield, but it might need adjustments, especially because of projectiles thrown from up close.

[@pegeta]

The game is cool but I don't see myself clicking with any of the characters which is sad.

[@drdepression4605]

Maybe try to ride a specific mechanic then? That's what I'm doing till hodan drops. It's kragg for now cuz I like cargo and his side special. But aside from that I don't like kragg much. Don't like rock and don't like the up special.

[@360no5]

Me 2

[@julioarcaiko]

I see your point completely. I think part of it is because we’re legitimately spoiled with the smash series’s crazy amount of characters. Good thing is future characters are free with the original purchase of the game. I thought that was an amazing move.

[@keaton3258]

​@julioarcaiko smash does have an insane amount of characters but the rivals characters are way more unique than the average smash character if not any smash character, at least ones like orcane and forsburn

[@keaton3258]

Maybe you just have to learn someone a bit more in depth to actually click with them

[@Ray-om3cp]

You can encounter this problem against heavy characters (especially Kragg) when playing Wrastor . He can suck up too many damage and his pillar is a pain in the ass to edge guard. When you hit something that would have killed everyone at high % , he miraculously survives, even though you can hear/see the sweet spot was hit.

[@Zenfaust1]

I love the unique playstyles of every single character that gives them all a reason to pick them. What I don't like is how big some hitboxes are with moves. Too many times I've been hit by Kragg's forward smash when I'm behind him and I can't DI it because it sends me the opposite way of his Forward Smash.

[@JumbaJumby]

Floor hugging/cc are a pretty difficult thing to balance, but I do understand why they exist. Aerials have the advantage of being near lagless and you can adjust their spacing up until the very last second. In comparison grounded normals are far more rigid and risky. By adding cc/fh, you incentivize grounded play, which is generally faster paced and more exciting than the repeated shffl bair spacing you see in games like Ult. But on the other hand if you take it too far you end up like Melee where half the cast is invalidated because they don't have a spike or good grab. It's hard to balance.

[@AWanderingSwordsman]

I mean, you can't parry, grab or shield in the air either though. The game has the tools to beat aerial spam. Not counting the fact that you get more reward for landing grounded hits a lot of the time (if they aren't floor hugged) and tilts generally have better frame data than aerials. People talk about how it's barely being used in tournament. Wouldn't that imply that the game functions completely fine without it?

[@vwxyz345]

It's out for 3 days, ppl really don't know what they're talking about. I hope the dev team ignores complaints about gameplay and let the meta develop.

[@KrillinTien]

You're right about the cross-community issue, and I'm glad you brought it up. We have a game where multiple communities come together to play. Each community will have a unique opinion based on their experiences in their own games. However, we don't HAVE to be negative towards each other. I think the negativity originates from herd mentality and believing one's group has some sort of superiority. It'd be best if we dropped this negative piece and enjoyed the game.

[@zeefacterfafter3]

love rivals 1 and 2 but totally agree with a lot of stuff you said outside of the community stuff, my experience with rivals community has been really good

[@daybreaker5493]

I heavily agree with that last point. While I come from Rivals 1 and still have some mixed feelings on the changes, if the game was going to reach a wider audience (mainly drawing in the smash players) those changes had to be made. Its important to realize that no matter where people come from, bringing in players from different games will not only increase the games longevity but also show differences in how the game itself is played such as a meelee player using lots of CC/Floorhugging tech compared to an R1 player using the parry and recovery options more as well as being able to come in already knowing a character

[@Padenjs]

Coming from mainly an ult palyer im loving rivals so far. It honestly fixes a lot of my gripes with ultimate. The roster feels a lot tighter and there aren't any characters that are just absolutely unfun to fight against... Like, i loved ultimate and for the most part think they did an excellent job of the tremenodus task of balancing a roster of 70-80 characters, but like 5-10 of them or so were just NOT FUN to play against. In rivals it feels like they all have there own bullshit, but i dont hate fighting any of them. And the online feels really smooth which is an absolute blessing coming from ultimates netcode... i feel the kill power thing now that you mentioned it. Theres a lot of times where things i wouldnt expect to kill just delete someone or moves that i thought would kill dont even come close. Knockback just doesnt scale like my intuition tells me it should. But it feels to early for me at least to tell me if thats just my bias or if its a game balancing issue. Floor hugging hasnt really bothered me too much. Perhaps it gets worse at top level but when its obvious that both players understand and expect it, it still rarely feels like it ever really becomes somwthing that makes or breaks too many interactions. Or takes the fun out. Again maybe that changes at higher level of play and i could kind of understand but thats my experience as a mid level player.

[@emmettsmith1387]

I like the stage layouts, but some of them do feel a bit large, especially fire capital. I think as people get better projectiles will be weaker as you can parry them which not only reflects the projectile but also gives you a healthy amount of s with which you can approach. I'm with you on floorhugging. I think the stock taking consistency will also come with time. Also there wasn't a title card for this, but you mentioned some moves are large and spammy with low endlag, and I also agree and think they should implement whiff lag specifically because I don't think we want to lose any cool combos. Hope you guys enjoy the game, I know I have been :)

[@Arrayonex]

I have a good amount of hours in rivals 1 so when I switched over, the maps feel too small.

[@indigoiozzi]

Funny you mention Clairen being able to mash moves, cause I'm a Lucina main in Ult and I feel like I can mash much more with Lucina than I can with Clairen in this game

[@sundraqon5330]

I love Hyperborean harbor because everyone else hates playing on it and they get cooked

[@zachariahhuey9876]

Thx for the comments on the community! The game should thrive on discussion and disagreement. Kneecapping other players just kneecaps the whole crowd.

[@TributeClub-kd1dn]

Can you try adding a CPU player in a online battle

[@golemwire]

I want to try this game out. And Smash and the platform fighter world really does need serious competition.

[@AnonymousAnonymous-je8mu]

Hey Dabuz I really think you should make your own move tier list like esam did

[@frankthegoblin5889]

I fully agree that the platfighting community has an issue with communities who try to ostracize over which game is your main game. I think the main reason is worse in platfighters then traditional fighters is that you can tell what game someone is coming from usually. I think the solution has to come from clarity and humility. Recognizing what you like and being transparent about where that perspective is coming from, while also recognizing that it is a matter of taste as opposed to "the better opinion". Goes for all sides.

[@frankthegoblin5889]

That being said your wrong about the stages you ult baby, get gud. (just jokes but I do think Rivals 2 has the best stage list out of any platfighter I've played)

[@Shyningfade]

My only real complaint about the game is that deaths seem to take forever. Ultimate did it right with a really fast trip to the blast zone, but in this it feels like it takes too long to get there. If I'm already dead, just take my stock!

[@ignis2614]

As a long time Project M player, i will be playing a lot of this game. Ive been waiting for a game like this for a long long time. I played a good bit of rivals 1, but this hooked me cause of the mechanics being like it.

[@breadlifecrisis1029]

I, as a sword is main in Ultimate, have struggled a bit with Clairen’s back air. It sends at a weird upwards angle and doesn’t kill. Coming from Cloud & Corrin especially this hurts.

[@zoiderama]

go for Loxodont, his moves are more familiar to Cloud atleast some of them

[@Arrayonex]

I have been playing Rivals 1 to Rivals 2 and my opinion right now is too early to decide. But I do find Maypul to be a bit cooler from 1 to 2. I prefer having no shields but that’s just me, I’m just going to deal with it. And something silly is that I keep forgetting there is no drift di so I am always holding the stick when I try to survive and then when I lose a stock, I always think to myself, “wait, I can’t do this anymore!”

[@RiverOfTheHeart]

Wait, can't you affect where you're going? I thought I was just holding the wrong direction and that's why I die early. Been told to hold perpendicular to where I'm being sent to survive, does this only apply to before you are launched and not while you're flying?

[@Arrayonex]

@@RiverOfTheHeart there was a different form of di in rivals called drift di where any time between you getting hit and hitstun ending, you can still influence where you are launched by holding in a direction. DI is in Rivals so the best DI angles would usually be up and a bit in.

[@NetullaGD]

I wish they would put sylvanos into this game, awesome character and also main bias

[@atropa4111]

It seems that a lot of the dislikes primarily boil down to a skill issue to be honest. Kragg is good but he is far from the best character in the game right now. He is strong, but so is everyone in Rivals in the hands of a good player.

[@powerowl2120]

Yeah, he did say that though. And the points he made after mentioning kragg are valid criticisms, and a lot of those are exemplified by kragg. He has strong moves like up air the juggle and kill at decent percents, he has great recovery mix ups that go pretty dang far, he doesn't die unless you execute a perfect edgeguard against him or hit a strong at 200%, and he has a BAG of gimmicks that would make Kakshi jealous. There's a reason why Zeebee was messing people up in rivals one, it's not just kragg obviously. But if you look at what Zeebee did, it wasn't much different from a typical Kragg. Just more efficient and accurate. He has a rock solid gameplan that you don't really have to deviate from, the pressure is on the other player to crack the kragg and get him to change tactics. And yeah I'm bad at the game, but Kragg downplay is just silly and I'm tired of it. I played Rivals 1 for way more hours than I should have, but a good Kragg is always a tough challenge. You really have to be on point and they don't and that's the main point of frustration many people have with the character including myself. It is quite literally an issue of skill

[@360no5]

I think the problem is that he's just a bit too heavy as he lives at 150+% it is skill issue but keep in mind that there are a ton of new players that never played the first one or something similar and just can't kill him so it becomes frustrating. If his weight was toned by just it would be less frustrating for new players and the pros gonna kill him earlier either way

[@powerowl2120]

All that to say, I wouldn't change a damn thing about kragg. At least fundamentally, I guess everyone could be fine tuned to infinity

[@powerowl2120]

​@@360no5or maybe just shrink the blast zones on some of the big stages just a tad. So many strong moves don't kill ever and it makes me sad

[@Stinkbug_Ab]

Yea i feel like the floorhugging discussion is so different for ult players, im a melee pm player as well as an ult player and tbh i hate how spammy moves are in ult. Floor hugging makes percent differences matter more and Ive always found it more fun to play. I hope folks try to get used to it more rather than saying it should be outright gone. Big agree on the ult player hate too been seeing too much i just want (some of) them to be more willing to learn and adapt to the mechanics of this game because I see the vision and im having a ton of fun with it

[@Neighsayin]

Him hating on Kragg. Meanwhile me hating on Orcane. XD Joking aside you do bring up very valid points.

[@philbusiness52]

Am i just bad or do buttons sometimes not register?? I’ll try to short hop nair for instance and my character will just jump and not attack or ill jab and not jump. I’m not sure but it’s frustrating.

[@Padenjs]

I would bet it's a timing thing. Especially if you're coming from ultimate or other games where the game has a large window to buffer inputs (if you press the button too early the game still saves and does it when your character is done with their current action.) I know ultimate gave me really bad habit of trying to constantly press buttons too early to buffer actions to happen on the earliest available frame. And now I have a bad habit in other games I start preemptively trying to buffer inputs and screwing myself.

[@philbusiness52]

@@Padenjs this is probably what it is. it seems like this game frankly has no buffer window at all. you can replicate what I'm talking about by doing a standing jab with Clairen and inputing a jump at any time during the jab. the jump will simply NOT happen unless you input the jump AFTER the move has completely finished. I have many instances of this happening with various moves during pretty much every match I play.

[@stephensterling1874]

I feel like some of the issues are slightly over stated. But I can agree that knockback scaling and floor hugging should be tuned a bit. I don't feel like moves are as spam-able as you say because of floor hugging. Its pretty easy to punish spammers rn. Also projectiles don't feel strong to me. Anyway i can generally see the criticisms but I think its mostly a skill issue The last point you made I feel like is probably the most important. I like that this game is the ultimate crossroads of all platform fighters and we should embrace that

[@zachywatcher2312]

Even tho i hate cragg, i gotta say if he recovers high like that you can just hit the platform on the side with your neutral-b and put him in freefall

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

I think we could use bigger, different stages than just "1 big platform with 2-4 smaller platforms over them." :P

[@Padenjs]

As soon as they do this though everyone will complain to high heaven because if there's anything interesting or new about any of the stages it'll advantage one character over others in some way...

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

My biggest gripes currently are: - Arcade boss on hard is too hard. I don't mind hard but it can take me 1-2+ hours to beat one (just the boss). Dial it down so it's more in the ballpark of 40 mins to an hour, 90 mins at most - There are no error sounds or visuals for when your mid air resources are spent + when you try and use them when you don't have them any more. Smash had this and it was really nice and I don't know why they dropped it - Related to point 2, it's really hard to tell when I can start acting after I was sent flying. It isn't like I'm sent away fast then I slow down once I can act, or there's some other indication... nothing. I just need to keep using inputs till they work. This is hyper confusing and very frustrating because I don't know from which point I can plan to recover and I don't know if I'm dead for sure or if I still have outs left

[@tubesism]

I’ll agree knockback on heavy hits feels off. You get sent so slowly but it lasts super long. Plenty of moves killed that I didn’t expect too because visually the knockback didn’t look so bad, but it just kept going…

[@vwxyz345]

That's how knockback is normally in non ultimate games

[@tubesism]

@@vwxyz345 I play melee and the knockback is weird to me too. Took me a bit to get used to.

[@jazzerjaw]

You can super heavily notice the community vs community hate in the Rivals Discord. Every time I open it I swear someone's mentioning "how bad Smash is" when the whole thing about fighter communities is that they enjoy crossover. It's cool to see a GG player in SF, a KOF player in Tekken, etc. But for plat fighters it feels like every community wants to be FULLY separated, which they shouldn't. People can not like a game, of course. Yes Rivals isn't Nintendo's, which is a big boon in terms of competitive, but acting like they're somehow gonna bring the axe down on you for being similar to Smash, and that you should block people from joining the community isn't great. You want people to come in and feel welcomed, not ashamed. You'll drive them away faster than you would keep them. I love Rivals more than Smash, but I still like Smash. The Smash community is large, and if some folks in it extend into Rivals, let them. You will only have more players who want to learn, lab, and more. Maybe a Rivals player would end up wanting to play Smash from it. Regardless, two legends can coexist.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

"We're a bunch of degenerates." - a part of the FGC on the FGC

[@jazzerjaw]

@@HighLanderPonyYT It's short, but so well said.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

I agree about kills being inconsistent randomly. It feels weird. Playing clairen it really feels more like rng than skill at times. I also kinda agree on the stages. They are very pretty but some of them just kinda suck compared to others, we really just need more stages. My other complaint is tech invulnerability. If I neutral tech I expect to be invulnerable for a few frames longer than what is currently in the game. Oh and dash attack/dash grab startup feels a little slow. Plenty of times my opponent and I have gone for dash attacks or dash grabs and ran through each other 2 times in a row and its funny but if the active frames were slightly earlier it would feel better. Outside of that I love this game. Coming from melee, this is what ultimate should have been. I dont have a problem with CC/floorhugging. Maybe its because I play melee where CC is just as strong. IDK but to me it feels fine.

[@Frilleon]

How’s the input buffer?

[@rosestrohm7986]

Kinda feels like there isn't one. I try to follow up after tilts with another tilt and it just doesn't come out

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

Haven't heard any complaints about it, so it seems like it works fine.

[@Frilleon]

@@rosestrohm7986 I liked the buffering of ultimate. I hated the input delay but the input buffering allowed for easy frame-perfect follow ups

[@vwxyz345]

I hated ultimate's buffer system, luckily this game has a good one

[@t00nbink]

To the point of projectiles, I personally don't agree that they're too strong. Parry basically beats all of them pretty consistently, especially Zetterburn side special is so easy to just parry.

[@tyg-zw7nn]

That and you can just shield them… easy to read once they start spamming.

[@pareod]

I also want the game to succeed and have a list of criticisms that could easily be addressed, and I've very much encountered that vocal minority of gatekeepers who are quick to jump on the "you just don't understand the game like *I* do" wagon. I'm worried that mindset will keep this game very niche. My criticisms: - The game needs a wavedash button. I know wavedashing is "easy" in this game, but I don't think most players want to spam it so much, so a dedicated button would help. - More movement should be built into moves. For example, let Zetterburn cancel shine into wavedash my pressing shine followed by a direction. - Change how crouch cancelling works. It's not fun to get punished for hitting your opponent - I agree with the issue of getting kills at either 50% or 200%. It feels like this game is very combo heavy, so you have to hit a specific sequence to kill. - The lack of drift DI feels very weird. Sometimes you die at low percent from a stray hit because you were trying to move and got terrible DI that you can't change post-hit. - Frame 6 parry feels too slow. I've been told it's to balance parry as an out of shield option, but just make it faster and learn to mix up your attack on shield timing. Parry end-lag is already punishable.

[@xaius4348]

I think if we fixed like, 2 maps, the map pool would feel good. Its not a big deal if we have 1 or 2 cringe maps, but there are a few too many.

[@BluuSkyz]

How can I chase and down tilt? I always dash attack. I can't run and down tilt like in smash. I've changed tilt stick to normal attack

[@atropa4111]

The way you'd want to do this would be to wave dash right before you attack, if you attack from a wave dash it will always come out as a tilt.

[@pokey_owo]

for what i remember you can do tilts while dashing if you hold down on the left stick while dashing and then do a tilt with the joystick

[@fezthedracky8468]

You can either wavedash, which carries more momentum but will leave you in actionable for a few frames, or you can crouch (or reset stick to neutral) which is faster but you don't keep as much speed.

[@vwxyz345]

Or foxtrot

[@SaturnFTL]

As someone who's primarily a melee player, I would rather see floorhugging nerfed or removed in Rivals 2. I think the mechanic works better in melee's ecosystem, and I'd rather see Rivals take what works about true CC and apply it in its own way.

[@denomon]

not bad takes at all i 100% agree with floorhugging and parry. please make parry for viable

[@drdepression4605]

People should not be punishing me for hitting them at 40 percent from floor hugging kragg hits. It's fine its in the game but after 35 percent it should just be scaled very hard downward after that. Like grab is the best option until someone hits like 50 in most cases it seems. And people love to grab in this game. Grabs should be easier to tech as well.

[@thuroria7631]

Why not? You can punish them for it, too. Why don't you? Let me guess, you didn't do the tech as well. So your opponent was more skilled than you, and got rewarded for it. Problem?

[@drdepression4605]

@@thuroria7631 I do it as well. Im definitely not as good with it. But even then it doesn't matter. The mechanic needs to be toned down. Skilled or not you simply shouldn't be punishing people for hitting you past 35 percent. It's not a matter of skill or not. It's simply too good rn. And I just want it toned down not out of the game. 35 is a very reasonable threshold for it to not work as strong as it does in the first 30 pecent.

[@Kevx9001]

@@thuroria7631 The opponent got hit so they lost netrual but instead of being punished for that they got rewarded. Do we really want this game to boil down to 2 people floorhugging while mashing buttons in front of each other? not to mention, not every characters options for playing around floorhugging are equal ex: forsburns downair only spikes towards the back of the hixbox and his grab game isn't that good.

[@tickoyo]

idk why they made rock wall so small in this game

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

The balance feels off. I'm bad, you're bad we're all bad yes, but it's a lot of little things that I'm talking about. * Why are some moves so laggy (Orcane d-strong) while others have little recovery (Zetter u-strong)? Both of the examples are kill moves but one is spammable while the other is punishable on hit at low %'s. * I also mostly played Orcane so there are other things, like Orcane's bubbles being sooo strong at stuffing movement and approaches, but then it feels like idk, his shorthop is slightly too short and his fullhop is slightly too tall for a lot of positions I want to hit people in with other moves like rising dair or rar sh bair against someone on a platform. * Combos feel very mismatched on the cast as well, where Clairen, Fors or Zetter feel like they have relatively simple looping pressure that leads to good reward, while Fleet gets one or two hits before she has to figure out how to maintain advantage. I get that it's character balance but, again, it just doesn't feel quite correct. Character power budgets don't feel equal across the roster and feel lopsided within a character's kit. * Kill power, as you said, just feels wrong. And from what I've seen, it's hard to edgeguard experienced players, so it matters a lot that kill power is low. I will say that I would like for the game to power up, rather than down, generally. I'd prefer system nerfs to character nerfs, especially. I find most characters to be a bit weak as someone whose experience is in Rivals 1 and before that Melee. I'd maybe nerf Zetter slightly, but everyone else I'd do shifts and slight buffs overall.

[@thuroria7631]

Orcane d strong is 7 frame startup, of course it should be laggy. "the other is punishable on hit at low %s" then don't use it at low %s?????????????? the brain activity "Combos feel very mismatched on the cast as well, where Clairen, Fors or Zetter feel like they have relatively simple looping pressure that leads to good reward, while Fleet gets one or two hits before she has to figure out how to maintain advantage." have you considered learning to DI?

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

@@thuroria7631 you lack reading comprehension, I don't think you've made it to DI

[@cyberjeeb]

As a former ult player now ult hater all things you like i agree. stage variety for sure is eh yeah i hate lox, clairen, and fleet. I think cc can have really interesting scraping potential and have experienced it, but I agree it's lame when used as a option select especially when you can just hold down and sheild to cover your whiff and shield their hit if they're late, THEN punish it oos with a hitfall aerial. In melee the top tiers have very strong moves to counter cc and not every character has that in this game. I have residual hate from laggy kragg from r1 and so I automatically don't like him, but I don't mind him as much in r2, but yeah he's not the best designed megaman boss character you have to learn. Fully agree with kill moves. And lastly regarding ult players, uh i dunno I've found most people complimenting the smarter top level ult players getting in the game but that could just be my circle. Either way learn shield dropping the game becomes much easier. Good vid dabuz : > 3

[@reniculous1559]

honestly, a lot of my issues with rivals 2 are that it doesnt play, for lack of a better term, "more like ultimate." What i mean is just a lot of smaller things in the grand scheme of things that make ultimate control well just kinda arent there, things like pivot tilt, dash into tilt, etc etc its the small things. movements really good but im not a HUGE fan of ledgehogging altho i know why its in the game. its a good mix overall but there are SOME things i miss from ult. air armada and merchant port are decent stages but i get pineappled a lot on those stages which i can see as a total skill issue

[@666blaziken]

Just a little bit, maybe adding a little bit more opportunities to punish them.

[@softchirps]

Surprised Rock Wall made it back in the game

[@atropa4111]

What is the issue with the map?

[@softchirps]

@@atropa4111 my friends and I weren't huge fans of the double stacked platforms. You can play really lame by going up a plat and across like Kongo Jungle in smash

[@noahharris6339]

The fact that Kragg did not die at 130 after getting hit by empowered orcane up strong with no DI is crazy. I am also not a fan of Kragg. Insane survivability, recovery, and decent moveset. What is the weakness? He is big.

[@vwxyz345]

His recovery is easy to mess with. If he's low and uses upB it's easy to edgeguard

[@druizcardenas312]

I agree on deleting Kragg

[@Beastmd]

Bro I promise you will like floorhugging, just fight a really good orcane. I was in the same boat as you as an ult player until I finally intentionally did it against the mashiest orcane in existence, just chasing me jabbing and canceling into tilts, bubbling, and nairing me all across the stage and I finally saw the light. It’s actually pretty good

[@mentlegen3887]

Isn't it silly to be able to cancel out so much knock back on reaction? I haven't seen many tournament players using it yet but, what's the counterplay to floorhugging. Also if that's the incentive your leading with them maybe arcane should be rebalanced and the normals of most characters adjusted. I feel like it's not very intuitive as a function to a fighting game (ah I hit you because I predicted how you were going to move but you nullified my knock back and killed me instead! Whoops!)

[@rapasdecoeur7017]

​@@mentlegen3887 The counterplay is grab, and it's a pretty quick and strong option so it might be viable. But yeah it doesn't feel great to realize that hitting the opponent isn't enough, and you also have to do it in a very limiting way to not get punished for it

[@mentlegen3887]

@@rapasdecoeur7017 yeah that's what I mean, cayse parrying for example is a fun high risk high reward option that can give you frame advantage over an opponent. It can reflect projectiles and It can be used when your confident that they'll be using a specific move but can be outplayed by the opponent knowing it's coming (baiting out the parry which leaves you vulnerable). Or using jab which is low commitment and doesn't out you into a stun when used. This in my opinion is an intuitive addition because whilst shielding is safer, it is prone to breaking and doesn't give you as much advantage. Floorhugging is not a fun or intuitive addition to me because it's easier than parrying but provides more value than shielding. The fact that it can be beaten by grabs and meteor down aerial moves is lame imo because the grab weakness fails to differentiate it from shielding as an option, and the meteor moves as a counter forces a convoluted guessing game. If an option nullifies or greatly weakness the impact of most of your enemies moveset why would you use shield or parry? This is a preference for me but I like the game more when the punish game has depth but has a logical flow. Perhaps as I play more and become more familiar with the characters movesets, kill ranges and confirms, and frame data

[@PurposeDriven7_]

@@rapasdecoeur7017 there’s moves besides grab that work like down air, and other characters specific moves like loxodonts down tilt

[@vwxyz345]

Lol sounds like me playing orcane

[@Gamevard]

to piggyback on the gatekeeping, I think lack of a tutorial for aaaall the movement and ledge mechanics contributes heavily. Even as a long time smash player, i find this game super inaccessible. But the smash knowledge carried me to the rivals specific mechanics lol

[@PurposeDriven7_]

I really wish my Ultimate brothers would try to understand cc and fh, why the devs introduced it, and how it legitimately affects gameplay rather than boycott it. Hyperflame’s video in the subject is so informative and encouraging.

[@BrownieEXE]

yeah lets encourage a mechanic which punishes a well timed approach when someone was camping or dashing like they are in a sugar rush. That's so rewarding 😒

[@PurposeDriven7_]

@@BrownieEXEit doesn’t punish a well timed approach it punishes a poorly mispaced approach, you should automatically be doing this but you wanna cry about another form of blocking. You know what beats floor hugging? Grab, it’s as simple as that.

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

@@PurposeDriven7_ grab doesn't beat option select floor hugging

[@menendez4004]

​@@PurposeDriven7_it is not another form of blocking. CC is another form of blocking, FH works on hit. I'ts basicaly a combo breaker you can pull out whenever you know you are gonna get hit (witch is normaly when you messed up in neutral)

[@minixlemonade]

I play and like both tbh

[@Oygurd]

For me as a former peach main, fleet's nair is not consistent to land and feels off, the fact I can't do a float cancel up air is also annoying, I try to get used to it but it needs improvement imo

[@GeoMiner2]

I honestly do think DI in general should be nerfed a bit, it was one of the biggest issues I had with rivals 1 (still love that game) and I was kinda sad to see it pretty much the same in 2

[@AJinxxedFella]

well you're just incorrect tho, the DI is fundamentally changed and actually nerfed because there's no DI drift anymore, you only gotta input a direction before getting hit and you can't change it mid air, which was a thing in Rivals 1

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

DI was strong in RoA 1 because it was the primary defensive mechanic, it had to be strong, RoA1 was still very much a killing game. And honestly, I would rather weaken the smash-isms (cc, ledge intangibility) than the rivals-isms (DI, recovery mixups) from here, because that's RoA's identity.

[@thuroria7631]

the DI is completely different?

[@Trisander]

Dabuz amazing points really agree with all the things you said here.

[@jacksons9546]

8:04 get rocked

[@lordtraxroy]

seems this game is not casual friendly in terms of stages options why cant stages not be a bit more janky yet fun it dont have to be large but having more stage shenanigans could be more fun also we need more items

[@GregInTechnicolor]

I was streaming ranked on Rivals 2 beta, and someone really couldn't understand the concept of homie stocking in ranked not being a good thing. The dude had 0 concept that other people might take offense to that as if they said they are so bad they need a handicap. I understand in friendlies maybe, but if this were bracket you know he wouldn't do that shit. Dude just said "No you're wrong, no one thinks like that." Lack of understanding that people might have different opinions than you is why modern gaming/society sucks.

[@Padenjs]

I kinda get homie stocking in competitive games being offensive. But at the same time sometimes I homie stock for my own piece of mind, because I dont want to win just because you had one stupid missed input that you sd'd over when I know you're at or above my level. Like it kinda sucks for both sides. I wouldnt homie stock in an actual tournament, but I'll homie stock in ranked. Not out of pity but for my own piece of mind

[@GregInTechnicolor]

@Padenjs I totally get that but as the one that SD'd I feel it's up to me to live through my mistake and do my best to come back from putting myself behind. It builds better habits to inscentivise fucking up less imho. I don't learn my lesson if we just end up at neutral again.

[@GregInTechnicolor]

@Padenjs I'm more trying to speak to the fact that of what Dabuz was saying about the community not being able to be told ANYTHING, like the dude straight up said to me "no, no one thinks like that" trying to gaslight me that his way of thinking is the only way people think.

[@zarekodynski9077]

I don’t think floor hugging is too strong, I think it shouldn’t exist. Crouch Cancelling is fine, it’s not as powerful. But making a mistake or positioning poorly should be punished, and floor hugging negates that, even if the percent it works at is reduced, it still is a literal cancellation of mistakes. That’s bad imo.

[@youngdolph8867]

Ultimate players have the picky pallette of a child when it comes to stage selections. When smashed launched Lylat was a normal stage pick but became soft banned over the years.

[@theexaltedlt8222]

Because the ledges literally didn't work

[@youngdolph8867]

@theexaltedlt8222 Melee players deal with Randall on Yoshis stage tho. Brawl players dealt with sunshine and halbert. The stage tolerance stops at ultimate - what it takes to get the ban hammer is insane,.. and that's my point.

[@theexaltedlt8222]

@@youngdolph8867 because they didn't have any choices at all. Ult does

[@KryZenGraphics]

Dabuz Do Be Spittin, thou Kragg is based smh

[@i.c6520]

MAKE SURE TO SMACK DABUSSYS LIKE BUTTON!!

[@Kevx9001]

Remove Floorhugging

[@Blizzard91]

GOLDFISH ORCANE IS SO CUTE.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Clownfish.

[@koopakape]

having Kragg as 'bad' in the thumbnail immediately invalidates all your opinions >:(

[@alanmendez3887]

Your criticisms seem to come from a place of low skill level especially lack of parrying. however, crouch canceling/ floor hugging is too strong and edge guarding is too weak for certain characters.

[@Sentrah1]

my single problem with this game is clairen. she is baby easy.

[@OdaGoda957]

dabuz calling himself a low level player when I'm learning the game in silver. womp womp

[@Kiba114]

dislikes: zetterburn zetterburn zetterburn zetterburn renno

[@serpentes9818]

I love u dabiz

[@thenoseguy]

This guy does not like fighting against characters at times

[@Forged4War206]

Ahhh yes nothing more ironic than a community that wants their game to be popular yet complain when their game attracts too many people from communities like Smash Ult, Melee etc. Little do they realize that the longevity of the game depends almost entirely on the support of the Smash community, or it will inevitably fade into obscurity just like Rivals 1.

[@theexaltedlt8222]

Rivals 1 literally was getting played prior to rivals 2 coming out. What are you talking about

[@BigGooseMan]

Maybe it’s because the game isn’t for me personally, I think characters are too strong off ledge. Being able to setup your gameplan or skip disadvantage because I pressed you special button off ledge was really frustrating.

[@PlayDuhFish]

not being able to punish special getups is a skill issue lol

[@atropa4111]

Not meaning to be rude, but this definitely sounds like a skill issue. It's honestly not too hard to gimp people off stage if you know the characters well and play aggressively. Recovery is powerful, but most of the cast have very exploitable aspects to their recovery. If Kragg sets his wall up and the opponent times a projectile right, he can get sent straight into special fall and just die for example.

[@fezthedracky8468]

@@atropa4111 it is worth mentioning on the kragg example that pillar has invincibility for a second, mostly to make early pillars usable

[@trinitygsaint2383]

i feel like id love this game but i hate anything slightly furry related

[@YangyChaddyDad]

I like rivals 1 way kore than rivals 2

[@annoyinger2001]

goated takes only

[@luiegiii]

4-nay-see

[@Wig_Girl]

Of course the ultimate players complaining about the stages 😂😂😂 Bro your game has over 100 and yet yall play on like 7 and most of them are the same😂😂😂😂

[@TehWhiteTiger]

Gotta be a good game if one of the five faults is the players and not because of the actual game.

[@pkjt54]

Tldr: skill issue, ult player