Dale Tuggy and James White debate: "Is Jesus YHWH?" (best quality, with slides)

[@RG-rj4sp]

Why do people feel that the 2nd opening need to address the 1st opening? That's what rebuttals is for

[@johnpaulsmajda]

At first I thought it was a dirty move of Dr. White, but then I had a buddy of mine propose a charitable explanation. Dr. White simply got lost. He did another debate two days before, which can be mentally exhausting.

[@TavishCaryMusic]

@@johnpaulsmajda People do this all the time where they criticize their opponent for not rebutting before the rebuttal. I've seen many Trinitarians and Calvinists make this claim. People like Anthony Rogers.

[@Philipians121]

Or perhaps he meant that since he is the affirmative on the topic, the burden is on his interlocutor. Maybe saying that Tuggy didn't address any of the things that white has written about on the topic, or any pre agreed scriptures?

[@raybo632]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJPLqmeZgZ2rkLcsi=bLPga1KZhHvxDXib

[@Tracy-Inches]

That’s exactly what I was thinking

[@billschlegel1]

James White forgot what part of the debate they were in at 52:02. Tuggy doesn’t have to rebut White’s opening statement in Tuggy‘s own opening statement. Then, White in his rebuttal session proceeded to Not rebut any of the nine points Tuggy made in Tuggy’s opening statement.

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Yeah, the irony is thick.

[@TavishCaryMusic]

Yep. Because he doesn't actually care what his opponent says. He only cares about picking certain points that he think he can criticize. He's not honest.

[@billschlegel1]

@@TavishCaryMusic :)

[@upclosepersonal]

@@TavishCaryMusic that's trinty for you. I've seen this before. They just say something like I don't have to explain I'll just leave it at that and you should study and do your own homework. Mean while there is gaps in their arguments that you can even park a car in

[@billschlegel1]

@@Yce_Take Are you asking me? If so, please clarify, how many Yahwehs do you think there are?

[@smueller5478]

At 44:22, Dr Tuggy gives a homework assignment regarding the meaning of the word mystery in the NT. Please know that your assignment has been done by Jeff Deuble in his wonderful book, Christ Before Creeds. Chapter 3.

[@larrythrasher9713]

Mystery in the bible denotes something not yet known. Mystery in Trinitarian theology means something that can never be known. In other words, it is a contradiction.

[@larrythrasher9713]

Every mystery in the Bible was something not yet revealed until it was revealed. Every single one. That is the reason it was a mystery. ​@chanano1689

[@pistisproductions77]

Sweet!......This sounds way much better, thanks for the work put into this!

[@kerryweinholz1731]

Brilliant effort!

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Thanks for hanging tight while we pulled it together, and let’s go share this!

[@raybo632]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJPLqmeZgZ2rkLcsi=bLPga1KZhHvxDXib

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

@@UnitarianChristianAlliance Is there a way to get a PERFECT transcript of this? I have been studying this subject for YEARS in light of man being created Spirit, Soul & Body. Thanks for ANY help in obtaining this transcript.

[@r.rodriguez4991]

A few minutes after White says he prefers biblical terms he goes on to talk about "a perfect human nature" and "the second person of the Trinity." So actually no he doesn't prefer biblical terminology.

[@pr073u569]

White recognizes that God gave us logic and expects us to use it when interpreting God's revelation. If human nature was corrupted by the curse of sin then prior to that corruption humans existed in an uncorrupted nature directly as the perfect God created them. Since the Bible declares that there is only one being of Yahweh and yet three persons are called Yahweh in the Bible we can reasonably discuss the first, second, and third persons in common order of Father, Son, and Spirit.

[@mewtwo3046]

@@pr073u569 YHWH is Satan. Jesus Christ never changes. How could he go from destroying cities, killing babies, sacrifices, genocide, etc. to nothing but love and life in the NT. Jesus/Father don't have power over death.

[@DartNoobo]

​@@pr073u569eh, ok, demonstrate three distinct entities being called Yahweh in the Bible. Not Lord, not Master, nothing like that. Yahweh

[@johnspartan98]

@@pr073u569 There is only one YAHWEH creator of all according to the Bible and it is illogical and unBiblical to claim there is three YAHWEH's. Yes, we are to interpret the Bible, but not according to our own methods and standards. We are to interpret the Bible according to the Biblical Method...which you don't even know because your interpretations cause conflict with the Bible...and like White, you can't even see it or acknowledge it.

[@pr073u569]

@@DartNoobo Entities might not be the best descriptor. There are three whos contained in one what. One being consisting of three persons. Jesus is the eternal Word became flesh who was God while also being with God from John 1:1-14. Jesus repeatedly claims to be the I AM referred to by Moses which is why the Jews want to stone Him for blasphemy. The inspired author in Hebrews 1:8 claims that Jesus the Son is being referred to in Psalm 45:6-7. Peter certainly considered the Holy Spirit to be interchangeable with Yahweh God in Acts 5:3-4.

[@stevendubberly8106]

John tells you the entire thesis of his book in John 20:30-31. WHY won't you let the author tell you the entire intent of his writing? How would Dr White feel if people came away from reading his book with an entire incorrect understanding of his writing?

[@Fassnight]

Trinitarians have no problem with those verses. But Unitarians sure have a hard time with John 1:1-18

[@stevendubberly8106]

@@Fassnight Sir....It makes no difference what YOU think that John is saying in John 1. You are reading it from a Western perspective not a Hebrew perspective. No matter what YOU think. The person that wrote the book of John told you his thesis. Jesus is Messiah...That's the message he is trying to get placed in your thick skull.

[@JohnQPublic11]

@@Fassnight --- Please give a detailed explanation to the class of the mind-bending eisegesis you performed to prove John 1:1 is talking about Jesus?

[@stevendubberly8106]

@@richardtarr8145 This prophecy would also work if God implanted Mary with Josephs DNA. Just like he took the rib of Adam to create Eve. Do you think Mary and Joseph went around lying to everyone about Jesus? Lie to their Rabbi? Saying Jesus was their son but he really wasn't?

[@AlexLightGiver]

Nothing was written down during the time of Jesus. And no one knows who wrote the book of John. So ...how accurate are the Bible?

[@kerryweinholz1731]

White: Scripture doesn’t talk of two natures for Jesus. Also no verse mentions "God is three persons" ... or three anything!

[@ivanipatov6559]

Scripture repeatedly speaks of the two natures of Christ

[@ivanipatov6559]

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body. we see the nature of the Word which is God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt with us, we see the nature of the flesh or temple in which the Word dwells and therefore in Him all the fullness of the Divinity is bodily.

[@Jiujitsushan]

@@ivanipatov6559 So God was dwelling in God? Hmmm make a sense

[@ivanipatov6559]

@@Jiujitsushan no, God dwelt in the temple of the body of Christ.

[@ivanipatov6559]

@@Jiujitsushan first nature is the nature of the Word of God the second nature is the nature of the flesh or temple The eternal united with the temporary, the immortal with the mortal. One eternal Word having two natures. Own and perceived in time. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[@jcgoodman65]

1:32:15 James White publicly confesses that his doctrinal conclusions that he is willing to divide over, and impugn the true faith of others with.... comes from human inference....Wow!, just like Dale said

[@eternalchilofgod3]

Airtight opening statement from Tuggy. James mustve felt helpless which is why he felt Tuggy was supposed to be giving a rebuttal on his opening. 😂 Tuggy surgically disarmed him for the rest of the debate.

[@56pjr]

you are delusional

[@kerryweinholz1731]

White likes to play on the word 'philosophy' as a slur against Tuggy, but White is the one who follows the Greek philosophers who 'created' the Trinity. Check out its history. The Apostle Paul warned Gentiles of philosophers (Colossians 2:8).

[@marekfoolforchrist]

Proverbs 29:3 He who loves wisdom makes his father glad “φιλοῦντος σοφίαν” “Philountos sophian” Philosophy is Biblical.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

@@marekfoolforchrist Depends on its foundation. Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."

[@joelc-gc1hq]

How do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said before Abraham was ,I am

[@joelc-gc1hq]

​@@marekfoolforchristhow do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said to them before Abraham was I am

[@TheMorning_Son]

​@joelc-gc1hq its still a man saying it..maybe it is in reference to the deity of Abraham..perhaps the spirit of Christ?

[@BTBFBG]

My goodness, how is this so hard to see for so many???.....Yeshua over and over and over again talks about praying and going to HIS FATHER!!!...Paul begins so many of his letters with "God our Father AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST (YESHUA)......It always comes down to a few passages misinterpreted.....actually, to worship Yeshua is to break the Command to Not have any other God's before him. Doing so commits sin

[@KirkLazarus23]

It must be because so called church leaders have gaslit and coerced laypeople into this way of thinking for so long, that they are now convinced that their eyes and ears and intuition cannot be trusted. I think ego, tradition, and not wanting to be wrong keeps it afloat. Idk.

[@NCSiebertdesign]

But calling Jesus as Lord commiting idolatry since he isn't God according to you? 🤔🤔 Since you actually overlooked some verses too. Jesus said He is the Lord of sabbath. If that's the case, according to O. T. it is God who made sabbath as per Genesis after 6 day creation. Irony that you missed obvious details.

[@markcain1550]

@@NCSiebertdesign Lord of the Sabbath doesn't equate to "Creator of the Sabbath." Mark 2:27-28 (ESV) The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath." Compare these: "The Sabbath was made for man...So the Son of Man created the Sabbath." (what I think you are saying) VS. "The Sabbath was made for man...So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath." (what Jesus said) The second one is a logical construction, if the Sabbath serves man, than naturally, the Son of Man (the promised, ideal man) would be over it, or master of it. It's why David, too, was able to eat on the Sabbath. It's about man's relation to the Sabbath, not about who created it.

[@NCSiebertdesign]

@@markcain1550 you're missing the point. When God created the sabbath, He's the one that set rules about sabbath and no man or any creatures in heaven or on earth, other than Jesus has the authority over it, why because He is God. Also: Hebrews 1 10 And:“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,And the heavens are the work of Your hands. (NKJV) clearly indicates Jesus as God (with the Father and the Holy Spirit) is the creator who created sabbath and is the Lord over it.

[@aaronsanchez3141]

Not even close

[@davidcoleman5860]

White appeared less patient than he normally does, and he also let Tuggy get under his skin. White's eye-rolling, grimacing, head-shaking and shrugs looked very unprofessional. Truth speaks for itself. It doesn't need to be augmented by jr. high antics. In the past, it was Tuggy who engaged in such gymnastics, but for the most part, he was very controlled. White also mischaracterized Tuggy's opening as if it were a rebuttal. That was almost bizarre since White is well aware that rebuttal comes after the opening. Tuggy also wasn't arguing philosophy over scripture, as White mistakenly asserted. As much as I disagree with Tuggy, he presented a biblical argument. This was not White's best effort by a longshot, and I'm not a Unitarian.

[@larrythrasher9713]

Yes. White was soundly beaten in the facts. But, his unchristian arrogant behavior is totally unacceptable!! It makes his side look bad, too.

[@eternalchilofgod3]

Yeah White doesn't handle too well the kind of pressure Dale brought.

[@dboulos7]

Yeah, wasn't that bizarre, i.e. White accusing Dr. Tuggy of not addressing anything of White's opening statement, within Tuggy's opening statement??? That would've been the sentiment of an amateur? Either way, Dr. White was right off the rails: felt no need to qualify any of his proof text (all his outrageous claims were taken for granted), his logic was completely backwards - if your conclusion makes no sense, you don't 'just accept it', but you rather go back to the exegetical drawing board until you can make sense. I thought that White was disgraceful, verging on deceitful

[@guitaoist]

Agreed, because hes not used to being wrong which he is in this case, not to mention he celebrates pagan holidays like christmass

[@davidcoleman5860]

@@chanano1689 Yes, that was Tuggy's biggest weakness. He couldn't resist arguing with White at cross. If he's going to engage in more debates, he needs some attorney friends to help him learn the art of arguing the point by questions. Good attorneys are masters at arguing through a witness.

[@stevendubberly8106]

Excellent Dale!!!! Thank You.

[@eternalchilofgod3]

I loved Tuggy's quick philosophy lesson to open. Appeal to the common sense people forget they possess.

[@timothyvenable3336]

It’s not about not having common sense, it’s about what the Bible says

[@fruitsnacks155]

@@timothyvenable3336which actually is the most common sense thing to do👍🏻

[@KnightFel]

@@fruitsnacks155and when you do it, you see the trinity.

[@fruitsnacks155]

@@KnightFel absolutely!

[@larrythrasher9713]

Tuggy says," A contradictory interpretation of scripture means that you need to go back to the drawingboard, and do better." Exactly true!! And there is no proposition known to man that is more self-contradictory than the doctrine of the Trinity.

[@joelc-gc1hq]

If Jesus is just a man how did he exist with the father before the world was created???

[@marksimpson4215]

@@joelc-gc1hq Nobody has said that Jesus was just a man, he is the Christ, our king. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6, 1 Corithians 15:24-28.

[@joelc-gc1hq]

@@marksimpson4215 did Jesus pre exist before the world was created with the father?

[@marksimpson4215]

@@joelc-gc1hq As the word, not as Jesus.

[@joelc-gc1hq]

@@marksimpson4215 did Jesus say the glory I had with you( referring to the father).he did not say (as you) but with you. Did Jesus humbled himself to enter into flesh( creation)? Answer is clearly yes( Philippians chapter 2 verses 5,6,7).He(Jesus) did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.Jesus in his consideration showed his own consciousness.

[@larrythrasher9713]

Tuggy's "Biden" example was spot on in terms of how the words "all" and "every" are used. Not just in the Bible, but in everyday language. In other words, they must be qualified. I would think this would be obvious, but it is a window into the mind of James White, and let's us know why he misinterprets the bible where these terms are used all the time. For example: Mark 1:5 KJV - "And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins." Does anyone think that everybody to a man in Jerusalem and Judea, came down and got baptized by John the Baptist ?? All means "all" !! Or does it? Obviously, the word "all" in this scripture, and in virtually every scripture that is used, has to be qualified. It's so sad that James White can not see that.

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

Yet to defend his Calvinism he will say: "All" means less than everyone without exception.

[@michaelchilcott2408]

😅 bc

[@stevendubberly8106]

Isn't it the JOB of High Priest to atone for sin? I thought that was one of the High Priest's main jobs.

[@TaxEvasi0n]

Ohhhh that's a good point. That brings more depth to Pauls writings, and also Hebrews.

[@hm-rm7qq]

Amen

[@biltontruth]

This could hardly be called a debate. Every argument made against the trinity is just a refusal to understand what the trinity actually is. And Dr White was so quick in his masterclass of a response.

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Trinitarians themselves disagree on what the Trinity is, and have published many alternative theories. Dr. Tuggy has published extensively on different definitions of the Trinity that trinitarians propose. You might be interested in his article in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy on the topic: plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Tuggy’s questions about “is the Trinity a god” and “is the Father a god” are to draw out the contradictions within White’s view. If there is one God… the Trinity would be it… right? But then that would mean the Father is not a God, just a part of one, or some other heresy.

[@johnygoodwin3441]

​@@UnitarianChristianAlliance The problem you have is that logically it doesn't work in your mind, the scripture has to trump our 'logic' and it's clear

[@gabrielkovalov8966]

​@@johnygoodwin3441 yeah... Actually satan is God. The snake goes into the garden of eden. Yeah, it goes against your logic, but you have to believe that the snake is God. You really think God gave us reason so we would throw it away? Doesn't it sound dangerous? Wouldn't it be exactly what satan want you to do?

[@REVNUMANEWBERN]

The actual "trinity doctrine" states there is 3 "PERSONS" and the scriptures refute that.

[@bandman83]

I can sense Dr White's frustration. Tuggy was not only giving his commentary during cross-examination which he wasn't supposed to do, but also introduced a different topic in his opening remark rather than engage with the affirmative. If the debate topic was "Jesus: Only a Man" then Tuggy's opening would have been appropriate. Instead White had to do both affirm and deny, and it makes it harder for the audience to follow. I have watched numerous debates and I have seen Muslims do the same thing.

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Dr. Tuggy has apologized for the comments during cross ex. But as far as his opening, he didn’t do anything inappropriate in describing his view which is counter to White’s affirmation of the debate prompt. Tuggy went beyond simply responding “no”, and on to “and this is what is better”. In debate parlance, it’s called a “competitive advantage” case. Nothing wrong with it at all.

[@matthewavstreih5039]

"God is murdered"... Does James actually understand what he is parroting?😢 He has truly blinded himself 👀

[@andre_theist]

Sacharija 12:10, Acts 20:28 and also Ignatius of Antioch (35-110 uses the Term the Blood of God

[@dboulos7]

Blinded, confounded, and stupefied himself. Unfortunately, he hasn't dumbfounded himself.

[@TavishCaryMusic]

@andreleao_ Acts 20:28 does not say "blood of God".

[@andre_theist]

@@TavishCaryMusic what does it say in yours

[@TavishCaryMusic]

@andreleao_ RSV, DARBY, NET all say "blood of his own [son]." Which makes WAY more sense than God giving his own blood. God didn't bleed and die on the cross. Jesus, the man did.

[@ronnier5349]

Tuggy knocked him through the ropes!

[@johnygoodwin3441]

What are you smoking?

[@ronnier5349]

@@johnygoodwin3441 that is a Crooked Beard maduro from Zeal Cigars. That is my favorite place to buy cigars online.

[@ronnier5349]

@@johnygoodwin3441 unless you mean I am high from thinking that Tuggy whooped White's you-know-what...?

[@johnygoodwin3441]

@@ronnier5349 Lol, not at all, unless you give credibility to Col 1 talking about a new creation - do you?

[@ronnier5349]

I want to say it does. I thought that for a minute. But I think it means Genesis 1 up until even now.

[@rayorichard8175]

James White's tone from the start seemed to be that of a scoffer or mocker. I heard him mostly put forth various trinitarian arguments but very little that was scriptural. Dale on the other hand kept very close to Biblical principles. So basically the trinitarian method is to bring forth the man made philosophical ideas that the catholic church was founded on in the 4th century. Good Job Dr. Tuggy.

[@NPC985]

James literally did Greek grammar comparison for his opening statement. The entire thing was a direct exegasis of particular psalms isiah and Hebrews. Just because you disagree with his position doesn't warrent a lie such as james used very little Scripture.

[@selvinaguilar7767]

Maybe that’s your bias?

[@JoDayGfm]

Thank you for the better sound -- God bless you. (I'll watch again now.) I must say, I prefer your camera angle! I first watched on the church's channel, and their angle showed James White in the bottom right while Dr. Tuggy was speaking at the pulpit -- which I found most off-putting. Dr. Tuggy is absolutely brilliant and a perfect gentleman in the debate. I did not find the same to be true of his grouchy, ill-mannered and deluded opponent, for whom I shall pray. 🙏

[@markcain1550]

Thank you! It was worth the effort to take a few days to get it better. Having slides and clear audio is so important.

[@xxxViceroyxxx]

dale is really unfairly breaking the rules when cross examining though

[@JoDayGfm]

@@xxxViceroyxxx Arguably less irritating than some of his opponent's antics 😂

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Tuggy apologized for not sticking to questions only in the cross examination. To hear his apology for that and his analysis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIrQlqWQl6iHgqssi=HsyS-_auX2aWTtF0

[@AMTattersall]

If you study Hebrew names, you will see a couple of consistent patterns. There are those ending in “el” such as we see with Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Ezekiel, Samuel, Nathaniel, Daniel, Joel where the “el” is a reference to Elohim. The next is the reference to those ending in “ya”, “ah” or the “ah” sound: Joshua (Yehosua) Jeremiah (Yirmeya), Nehemiah (Nehemya), Isaiah (yesaya), Hosea (hosea), Joshua (Yehoshua), Jesus (Yeshua). Note that most European languages still say J as Y. Note the absence of the Yah sound at the beginning of the name. It is always a “Yeh”, “Ye” or “eh” Hebrew names do not begin with “Ya” or “Yah” and do not end in “eh”. YeHoVaH conforms with the Hebrew name patterns. Despite what teachers are telling you, Yahweh is a relatively new name to both Judaism and Christianity and is opposite or “Anti” to the Hebrew name patterns. If you have been praying to Yahweh you are already praying to the Antichrist beast. Pope Francis has declared that Yahweh is the proper name of God and he will be crowning the AntiChrist in the Temple as Yahweh and not God’s proper name and the world will worship him! If you have been praying to or worshiping Yahweh, you are already praying to or worshiping the Antichrist beast.

[@KirkLazarus23]

Did James White, right out of the gate, infer or imply that people are just stupid if they don’t side with his philosophical model?

[@j.m8480]

Of course he does😂

[@joelc-gc1hq]

How do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said to them before Abraham was I am

[@markcain1550]

@@joelc-gc1hq You may find my episode on that passage helpful. The UCA podcast is a different kind of podcast. I was asked by a listener about this, and this was my answer. kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6bOdpZjYqannZo

[@bobbyfischersays1262]

@@joelc-gc1hq I eisegete the Trinity, of course!

[@brandonr4452]

@@joelc-gc1hq first off we must realize that there is an "interpolated" (to put it nicely) portion of writing in John that is not original. Scholars all know that the short episode of the adulterous woman is most likely something that was added in at a later date. And this addition breaks the flow of the discourse between Jesus and the Jews. Even the trinitarian website "Got Questions" admits this. If you start all the way back in 6:68, you will find Peter giving us the correct answer for who Jesus is. Then Jesus' interaction with the Jews/Pharisees starts after. It continues through chapter 8. If you pay attention to the main topic of those two chapters, you will find that it's all about whether Jesus is the Christ or not. There are also multiple places in John where Jesus says the same greek words that translate into "I am he" when he confirms he is the Christ (like with the woman at the well). So it is perfectly plausible that Jesus is, once again, claiming to be the Christ in 8:58, just like he has done is other places in John. There's no reason to force the idea of Jesus claiming to be the "I am that I am"/"I am the existing one" from Exodus onto this text.

[@mruziicak]

I'm really confused why James White didn't rebut Tuggy's position in his rebuttal time. It's as if he just zoned out and went into speech mode because he didn't engage with the text Tuggy presented. I lean towards Trinity but White's argument was wholly inadequate. As conscientious Christians, we must go with the most sound and coherent argument. In this case that's the Unitarian argument.

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Indeed! Why didn’t White respond to Tuggy’s case?

[@AliveandRemain.Ministry]

Agreed 👍

[@Plisken65]

It would be nice if James White could actually be cordial. It's a debate between 2 Christians. No one is "the enemy".

[@kalebblackburn156]

Unitarians are not Christians

[@Fablles]

you do understand that these people literally believe in a different God, there are no enemies as you say but they aren’t the same at all

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

Good point❤

[@carrie_k]

I think he just wants everyone on the right side. When we die it is too late to recant what we believed in our hearts. Dr. Tuggy was a Trinitarian for most of his life, and then unfortunately fell away. It’s sad to see that someone who knew the truth in their hearts and then suddenly have a ‘new truth’. The Triune God couldn’t have been so outrageous as so many others have had this realization through interpretation of the Biblical texts. I watched the pastor of my church (for almost 25 years) walk away to start preaching a false gospel and claiming it to be truth. The devil doesn’t attack people who are far away from God because there is no reason to as they are already lost. He attacks people who are reaching for God and striving to have a close relationship with Him. I think Dr. Tuggy let his guard down at some point in his life and the devil deceived him. I don’t see Dr. White being intentionally condescending in any way. He’s passionate about what he knows and believes in his heart. In a perfect world, we all unite under Our Lord and spend eternity in Paradise 🙏✝️✡️ Ask for God to reveal the truth to our hearts. God Bless.

[@kurtgundy]

Tuggy is not a Christian. Anyone who denies Jesus is an anti-christ.

[@larrythrasher9713]

So James White says, "That's exactly what we need to see in the next 10 minutes." And then Tuggy comes along and does exactly that! It is difficult for me to express how significant that is!!!

[@truthreigns3465]

Awesome at what point is that so I can go reference

[@TheMadman308]

By far the most intelligent debate I've seen on this topic and I believe that if you try to look at it with human logic you start to maybe unconsciously add philosophical ideas just my opinion

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

“Human logic”… an ad hominem. If the logic is sound, then it is true. God knows what is true, there’s no human or divine distinction.

[@alphonsedenny4962]

TheMadman308, BOTH, James White & Tuggy show that they are confused and MISREPRESENT Jesus. James White is a Trinitarian and supports "The Trinity Doctrine" which states The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are 3 DISTINCT PERSONS - that is "The Father is NOT The Son or The Holy Spirit, The Son is NOT The Father or The Holy Spirit, and The Holy Spirit is NOT The Father or The Son" - BUT IN THIS VIDEO HE SAYS THAT "JESUS IS YHWH". It is clear that James White is confused! THE FACT IS THE THE BIBLE STATES/PREACHES THAT "God The Father YHWH IS THE SON & HOLY SPIRIT" - that is "JESUS IS YHWH"! So, James White is correct in saying "JESUS IS YHWH" but WRONG IN BELIEVING "THE TRINITY DOCTRINE"! Tuggy is wrong in saying that Jesus is NOT God - he does not look at the Bible as a whole. JESUS SAID THAT HE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD in Revelation 1:8.

[@alphonsedenny4962]

TheMadman308, The Bible preaches A TRIUNE GOD, not The Trinity Doctrine which states '"THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE HOLY SPIRIT & THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE SON"! YOU FAILED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "A TRIUNE GOD" & "THE TRINITY DOCTRINE"! IF GOD IS NOT A TRIUNE GOD, WHY DID JESUS GIVE THE COMMAND TO BAPTISE "In The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit"? God is triune is not the problem - the problem of the Trinity Doctrine is that it states that "THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE HOLY SPIRIT & THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE SON"? BUT THE BIBLE PREACHES THAT THE FATHER IS THE SON & THE HOLY SPIRIT! Can you see the contradiction? God is NOT "THREE...persons in ONE" BUT ONE GOD IN THREE FORMS - FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT! Why can't God separate Himself and come to earth AS "The Son of God"? JESUS SAID in John 16:27 "I CAME OUT FROM GOD". If there is only ONE God and rightly, than how can Jesus be different Person from God the Father? If Jesus is the Savior and God also claimed He is the ONLY Savior and none else, so did the Bible get confused and anyone speak lie? I WORSHIP THE ONE GOD THE FATHER WHO MANIFESTED HIMSELF AS FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT IN HIS NAME YHWH (YaHuWaH). WHEN WE WORSHIP GOD IN HIS NAME YHWH (YaHuWaH), WE WORSHIP THE FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT AS ALL THREE HAVE THE SAME ONE GLORIOUS/GREATEST NAME IN EARTH & HEAVEN.

[@alphonsedenny4962]

@@UnitarianChristianAlliance , BOTH, James White & Tuggy show that they are confused and MISREPRESENT Jesus. James White is a Trinitarian and supports "The Trinity Doctrine" which states The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are 3 DISTINCT PERSONS - that is "The Father is NOT The Son or The Holy Spirit, The Son is NOT The Father or The Holy Spirit, and The Holy Spirit is NOT The Father or The Son" - BUT IN THIS VIDEO HE SAYS THAT "JESUS IS YHWH". It is clear that James White is confused! THE FACT IS THE THE BIBLE STATES/PREACHES THAT "God The Father YHWH IS THE SON & HOLY SPIRIT" - that is "JESUS IS YHWH"! So, James White is correct in saying "JESUS IS YHWH" but WRONG IN BELIEVING "THE TRINITY DOCTRINE"! Tuggy is wrong in saying that Jesus is NOT God - he does not look at the Bible as a whole. JESUS SAID THAT HE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD in Revelation 1:8.

[@alphonsedenny4962]

@@UnitarianChristianAlliance , The Bible preaches A TRIUNE GOD, not The Trinity Doctrine which states '"THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE HOLY SPIRIT & THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE SON"! YOU FAILED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "A TRIUNE GOD" & "THE TRINITY DOCTRINE"! IF GOD IS NOT A TRIUNE GOD, WHY DID JESUS GIVE THE COMMAND TO BAPTISE "In The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit"? God is triune is not the problem - the problem of the Trinity Doctrine is that it states that "THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE HOLY SPIRIT & THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE SON"? BUT THE BIBLE PREACHES THAT THE FATHER IS THE SON & THE HOLY SPIRIT! Can you see the contradiction? God is NOT "THREE...persons in ONE" BUT ONE GOD IN THREE FORMS - FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT! Why can't God separate Himself and come to earth AS "The Son of God"? JESUS SAID in John 16:27 "I CAME OUT FROM GOD". If there is only ONE God and rightly, than how can Jesus be different Person from God the Father? If Jesus is the Savior and God also claimed He is the ONLY Savior and none else, so did the Bible get confused and anyone speak lie? I WORSHIP THE ONE GOD THE FATHER WHO MANIFESTED HIMSELF AS FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT IN HIS NAME YHWH (YaHuWaH). WHEN WE WORSHIP GOD IN HIS NAME YHWH (YaHuWaH), WE WORSHIP THE FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT AS ALL THREE HAVE THE SAME ONE GLORIOUS/GREATEST NAME IN EARTH & HEAVEN.

[@fLUKEYdNb]

YeHoVaH is almighty God alone - the only true God according to Yeshua. Yeshua himself is the anointed one, God’s redeemer, exalted to God’s right hand, given all authority, the Lord.

[@joelc-gc1hq]

How do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said before Abraham was I am

[@fLUKEYdNb]

@@joelc-gc1hq​​⁠like this… 1. The phrase-‘ergo emi’ is not the full phrase used by YeHoVaH in the old testament-it is ‘ergo emi hu on’ YeHoVaH says tell them ‘hu on’ sent you. And in the next verse reveals His name YeHoVaH. 2. Other people use the ergo emi (I am) phrase - they were not claiming to be God either. 3. The argument that the Pharasies ‘knew’ that Yeshua was stating that he is God is easily refuted by reading until the end of chapter 10 where the same men ‘did not’ know who Yeshua was claiming to be. 4. Singular verses taken out of context do not suffice as evidence, understanding context audiences and the full passage do. 5. Yeshua was actually stating in the context that he is the light of the world as he speaks and does the will of YeHoVaH 6. English translation obscures the meaning from the Greek - specifically Yeshua is saying before Abraham was - I was foreknown/pre-planned by YeHoVaH.

[@fLUKEYdNb]

@@joelc-gc1hq​​⁠like this… 1. The phrase-‘ergo emi’ is not the full phrase used by YeHoVaH in the old testament-it is ‘ergo emi hu on’ YeHoVaH says tell them ‘hu on’ sent you. And in the next verse reveals His name YeHoVaH. 2. Other people use the ergo emi (I am) phrase - they were not claiming to be God either. 3. The argument that the Pharasies ‘knew’ that Yeshua was stating that he is God is easily refuted by reading until the end of chapter 10 where the same men ‘did not’ know who Yeshua was claiming to be. 4. Singular verses taken out of context do not suffice as evidence, understanding context audiences and the full passage do. 5. Yeshua was actually stating in the context that he is the light of the world as he speaks and does the will of YeHoVaH 6. English translation obscures the meaning from the Greek - specifically Yeshua is saying before Abraham was - I was foreknown/pre-planned by YeHoVaH.

[@fLUKEYdNb]

@@joelc-gc1hq​​⁠like this… 1. The phrase-‘ergo emi’ is not the full phrase used by YeHoVaH in the old testament-it is ‘ergo emi hu on’ YeHoVaH says tell them ‘hu on’ sent you. And in the next verse reveals His name YeHoVaH. 2. Other people use the ergo emi (I am) phrase - they were not claiming to be God either. 3. The argument that the Pharasies ‘knew’ that Yeshua was stating that he is God is easily refuted by reading until the end of chapter 10 where the same men ‘did not’ know who Yeshua was claiming to be. 4. Singular verses taken out of context do not suffice as evidence, understanding context audiences and the full passage do. 5. Yeshua was actually stating in the context that he is the light of the world as he speaks and does the will of YeHoVaH 6. English translation obscures the meaning from the Greek - specifically Yeshua is saying before Abraham was - I was foreknown/pre-planned by YeHoVaH.

[@fLUKEYdNb]

⁠@@joelc-gc1hq ​​⁠like this… 1. The phrase-‘ergo emi’ is not the full phrase used by YeHoVaH in the old testament-it is ‘ergo emi hu on’ YeHoVaH says tell them ‘hu on’ sent you. And in the next verse reveals His name YeHoVaH. 2. Other people use the ergo emi (I am) phrase - they were not claiming to be God either. 3. The argument that the Pharasies ‘knew’ that Yeshua was stating that he is God is easily refuted by reading until the end of chapter 10 where the same men ‘did not’ know who Yeshua was claiming to be. 4. Singular verses taken out of context do not suffice as evidence, understanding context audiences and the full passage do. 5. Yeshua was actually stating in the context that he is the light of the world as he speaks and does the will of YeHoVaH 6. English translation obscures the meaning from the Greek - specifically Yeshua is saying before Abraham was - I was foreknown/pre-planned by YeHoVaH.

[@isaacbonilla4687]

Easily the best debate so far for Tuggy. His 10 mins rebuttal made me remember Craig rebuttal of Sam Harris. I live in El Salvador Central America and I thought about going to Houston and be there. Unfortunately I couldn't but thanks guys for putting the video here

[@dboulos7]

Yes, I was impressed with Tuggy more than usual, this time, also

[@the5326mindset]

if this is his "best" id hate to see his worst

[@stevendubberly8106]

James....Hello.....We don't care what your "church fathers" said. They had the same bible as we do. We can read.

[@thinketernal260]

while we wait for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[@plumtree8713]

Isaiah 53:6 in thesis statement really works against His claim Jesus is YAWEH

[@Bibliotechno]

I believe, to be fair, he used that verse to say the Father was Yahweh, other verses for the Spirit and the Son as Yahweh.

[@plumtree8713]

@@Bibliotechno Isaiah 53:6 [6]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Right but YAWEH laid on Christ. Doesn't support Christ is YAWEH

[@Bibliotechno]

@@plumtree8713 I don't know how to say this again more clearly. James White, to be honest, in is opening slides, middle section, said the Father as Yahweh, laid the sin on Jesus as the Messiah. He did not use this verse to show Jesus is Yahweh.

[@plumtree8713]

@@Bibliotechno ok, but that verse does show a distinction between YAWEH and Jesus. So, not only does the Bible show distinction between Jesus and the Father, but also between Jesus and YAWEH.

[@plumtree8713]

@@Bibliotechno but the second time was much more clear to me.

[@jonathandutra4831]

James is following and being consistent with scripture and what it teaches about Jesus and Dale has a problem with that.

[@AstariahJW]

James white teaches apostate teachings not from the Bible Trinity is not a biblical teaching so false teachers go beyond what is written and twist scriptures

[@marksimpson4215]

YHWH is the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew. Jehovah is God's name in English! God is a mere Title shared by many! People, People, People!

[@ManlyServant]

its actually Yahuah not Jehovah or Yehowah or Yehuwah or Yahweh but Yahuah,be careful using the name

[@marksimpson4215]

@@ManlyServant In my KJV bible Yahuah is not mentioned once. because I read in English. Jehovah wants his name glorified yet you want to listen to Jews who want you to use titles instead of names. You fear to use your own God's name, what denomination did this to you?

[@ManlyServant]

@@marksimpson4215 kjv isnt infallible

[@marksimpson4215]

@@ManlyServant See, now we are getting somewhere. Which Bible is better? I can only read English. Are all Bibles fallible?

[@kerryweinholz1731]

"A hymn of the early church" isn't Scripture.

[@brandonr4452]

yes. I commented on this on the original stream post, but it's now unlisted. So I'll repeat it here. The so called "early christians" that White cites are changing Philippians 2 to say what they want it to say. They say Jesus "took on human nature" while the scripture says Jesus took on the form of a servant. So who is it again that has to twist scripture to fit their theology? Certainly not Unitarians.

[@Bibliotechno]

If you don't regard Book of Philippians as scripture, why do you bother?

[@brandonr4452]

@@Bibliotechno I'm going to guess that what @kerryweinholz1731 was implying or trying to say is that unitarians base our beliefs on scripture, not what some "early christians" believed. I added that those "early christians" are changing the scripture (Philippians 2) to fit their beliefs, just like most "orthodox" people did back then. Bart Ehrman points out in "Misquoting Jesus" that is was more frequently the "orthodox" christians who altered the scriptures than their opponents. In any case, White's argument still doesn't prove that Jesus is YHWH. There were plenty of early christians who claimed Jesus was a second god underneath God almighty. Mainstream apologists don't want the laypeople knowing this history. They cherry pick quotes that say "Jesus is God" but hide all the quotes that say Jesus is still subordinate to God the Father.

[@brandonr4452]

@@Bibliotechno What James White quoted was a mis-quoted or defiled version of Philippians, so no, it's not scripture. You see, what he quoted is what trinitarians THINK Philippians 2 says. But that verse doesn't actually say that. They have to change the Bible to fit their beliefs...

[@cimmbasso]

@@brandonr4452 this confuses me even more at times as to which Bible version is actually accurate.

[@MainPointMinistries]

Thank you for posting the improved version. Trinitarians have sunk to a new all-time low. Having literally left nothing unique for God our Father. Even His Holy Name (YHWH) has been taken away and given to Jesus. This is so unfortunate 😔

[@gaiusoctavius5935]

Jesus is God. The scriptures, as well as the earliest Christian testimony, make that clear🙂

[@xxxViceroyxxx]

@@gaiusoctavius5935the god he was with or the god that was with him

[@gaiusoctavius5935]

@@xxxViceroyxxx God the Son was with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit before the creation of anything. It's that simple.

[@xxxViceroyxxx]

@@gaiusoctavius5935but arent you inserting those individuations? jo 1:1 just says god, not father

[@gaiusoctavius5935]

@@xxxViceroyxxx The Bible distinguishes between God the Father and God the Son for us; without understanding this distinction, one can easily fall into Modalism.

[@raymonddscott4711]

White's opening statement is conclusive with only weak scriptural references. Hebrews 1:9 makes it clear Yahweh anointed Christ. So Jesus anointed himself? Makes no sense.

[@donaldbrillo2034]

The Father Anointed Jesus. And Jesus is representing The Father as His Visible. Image. Remember All power and Authority is vested in JC. ALL. THINGS that The Father hath are MINE.... The Father is Divine so is The Son. He is authorized to use The Fathrrs Nsme. If you call your father by his first and last name that is disrespect. If you call. THE Father as YHWH or JEHOVAH that is deliberste irreverence. We call Him. FATHER for endearment , relationship. Right.

[@davidantonucci1161]

@@donaldbrillo2034NOT IN THE REAL WORLD , people have sons , since when has the word son means yourself ?

[@Resepdrea12]

1:12:15. Cross examination 1:22:20

[@jdaze1]

I can tell you how we all got deceived and what the GOSPELS are telling us. I figured it out after I read Phillipians 2:9-10, Revelation 3:12, Revelation 21:7, I Peter 1:3, 1:23, James 1:18. The truth will set us free. Jeremiah 16:19-21( kjv) tells us the gentiles will be deceived until the day of affliction. That day has arrived and so has the outpouring of the spirit of TRUTH just as he promised. We were indeed deceived by a STRONG delusion that started with Rome. Romans 1:3-4 also blew my mind once the Father removed the veil from my blinded eyes to comprehend what its actually saying. Its been RIGHT THERE all along. Right under our noses.

[@Mikha335]

I had the same experience with Romans 1:1-4

[@cimmbasso]

I am totally blown away. I had read that. I don’t know how many times before until you brought it to my attention. That is an eye-opening scripture as to who Jesus Christ is. Declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness BY his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,

[@Mikha335]

@@cimmbasso Yes! Now go read Acts 13:33, where Paul again makes the same connection citing the coronation Psalm 2:7

[@cimmbasso]

@@Mikha335 I’m blown away. Thank you for sharing this with me! Are there any other resources that you would recommend?

[@Mikha335]

@@cimmbasso Yes. Two other scriptures connect sonship with resurrection: Luke 20:35-36 & Romans chapter 8. Do you know what blew me away? When I learned that the Messiah in Old Testament prophecy is the son of YHWH. For instance, when YHWH promises David his descendant will reign in his stead, YHWH says, “I will be his father, and he will be my son.” (2 Samuel 7:14; 1 Chronicles 17:13). Another example is the suffering servant prophecy in Isaiah 53:6, “YHWH hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.” The servant is never confused with YHWH. Same thing in vs 10. Same thing in the famous messianic prophesy’s of Isaiah chapters 11, 48, 61. Same in Psalms 2 & 22. In other words, YHWH is always God the Father, and the Messiah always His son/servant. To me, this devastated the doctrine of the Trinity & modalism in one blow. The clarity is amazing.

[@AstariahJW]

Wheres the holy spirit sitting with the lamb and God ? James white said thats the trinity there

[@wingedlion17]

The Unitarian arguments are very convincing… at most trinitarians can show Jesus was thought as divine , but the idea that the holy spirit and Jesus are all Yahweh is not in the text.

[@jonathancrocker366]

It absolutely is. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God... AND Scripture teaches there is One God. The conclusion? Father, Son, Holy Spirit are three distinct person's: One God.

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

There is one Most High God, the one true God (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20), who is the Father of Jesus. The triune god is not the one true God and is not the Father of Jesus. There is one Lord (1 Cor. 8:6), Jesus the Messiah, who is the Son of God, begotten in the womb of Mary. Arguably he is called theos in Hebrews 1:8, which is derived from Psalm 45:6 - a reference to the Davidic king (elohim), unless the alternate translation is true - God is your throne, or your throne is God's. The spirit is God. God's personal presence. But not a third "self." God, the Son of God, the spirit of God. But no triune being.

[@gamerguyofgamesandstuff4294]

So you believe in 2 or 3 gods? Make it make sense.

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

@pj1683 You have provided the perfect example of what has actually caused so many problems. Rather than going to the text seeking understanding from God, you instead would have people to accept as truth the creeds and writings of others who have attempted to explain the text just as other people have. Those people are just men too.... just like the ones you seem to be criticizing. Nothing you said comes from scripture....only a strand of tradition.

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

@pj1683 Jesus and the apostles considered what we call the OT to be scripture and thus authoritative. The apostles considered (some writings at least are attested to by them) what we call the NT to be scripture and thus authoritative. Certainly, you bring up an interesting topic. I think God has preserved the gospel message through the writings we have, though there are definitely differences of opinion about what belongs in the canon, and even what belongs in the books therein. There has been a noticeable human element in this preservation. I'm not willing to call any Bible version a perfect translation of the original, because we obviously don't have the originals, and there is no such thing as a perfect translation from one language to another. Still, I think our translations are sufficiently correct, and I would say the same about the canon. By that I mean there could have been some additional letters included that had the same message and wouldn't have added or subtracted from God's message to mankind. With that said, let's say the canon is "perfect", being involved in the preservation of scripture doesn't make someone (or a group) morally upright or theologically correct. The majority of our Bible was preserved by a people that rejected their own Messiah. Yes, I think scripture is God's revelation of Christian truth, and I trust it to guide me, not politically motivated church councils.

[@manny4fe1]

Excellent opening Tuggy , praise God for truth debunking popular mainstream theology

[@JoeBizzle]

It WAS idolatry to worship Jesus as God before the resurrection. To worship him post resurrection is NOT idolatry because God promoted him and gave him dominion over all of creation. It's not as if God is jealous of Jesus or that Jesus is trying to usurp God.

[@JoeBizzle]

@@beautifulfeetpreachingsc Worshipping Jesus as king is different.

[@koroglurustem1722]

Have you read the 1st commandment?! Jesus was only a prophet of One God. Do not worship anyone other than the Almighty God.

[@JoeBizzle]

@@koroglurustem1722 He wasn't a prophet. He was the Messiah. The Son of Man. The only begotten son of God. Resurrected and exalted to the right hand of God.

[@koroglurustem1722]

@@JoeBizzle read your Bible. What did Jesus reply when the rabbi accused him of blasphemy because of "son of God" expression? Didn't he explain "son of God" can be applied to anyone? Then where do you get the idea of "begotten son"? God is far exalted above His creation to be attributed such animal acts between Him and His creation Mary. Millennia hasn't seen such a great blasphemy against the God almighty!

[@destroyingtheworksofthedev9349]

Imagine thinking of the sovereign ruler of the universe has an only Begotten son………. and he’s not divine

[@brandonr4452]

1:23:12 No writer of the Bible says that YHWH is the combination of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Therefore the "triune god" is NOT a "biblical revelation." White's statement is just false. 1:25:20 White just admitted that "god the son's" incarnation made him not have all "god" features"/"powers". So why is it that 99% of trinitarians claim that Jesus proved he was "god" by doing miracles and having "divine knowledge"??? Contradictory statements/beliefs. "God the son" somehow "gave up being god" but at the same time still is "god." Nonsense. It doesn't even agree with other trinitarians. 1:27:25 and here is the complete undermining of the "penal substitution" atonement theory. White admits that it was only the "human nature" that "died" on the cross. 99% of mainstream christians claim that the only way our sins could be "paid for" is if "God died." James White said that God did not die - Just like Michael Brown. Therefore 99% of christians must conclude that their sins have not been "paid for" since God did not actually die.

[@maxspringer01]

right, that last one of yours is a massive nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. "Only an infinite God could die to atone for infinite sins!" combined with "it wasn't God who died, it was His human nature!" Um.........

[@scotthix2926]

And that is why Jesus is God, becuase he is God. He took on humanity, became the second Adam a sinless righteous one who though tempted, overcame that temptation and layed down his life. Becuase he was 100% man. However in no way have I destroyed his 100% God. Which is what Jesus does in forgiving sins and claiming to be God: transfiguration, rising from the dead, healings, receiving worship, etc.

[@Barefootseal_66]

How do deny diety of Christ in the context of Philippians 2:6 “.. though He was in THE FORM of God, did not count EQAULITY with God and thing to be grasped, but emptied himself…”. How do you willingly give up divinity you don’t already possess?

[@brandonr4452]

​@@Barefootseal_66 1) The translation and meaning of this verse is the most controversial out of everything in the NT (according to what I've heard). 2) you are making an equivocation between "in the form of God" and "God" (ontologically) 3) Because of #2, most trinitarians then make the equivocation between "took the form of a servant" and "took on human nature". That is what many trinitarians do. They must read in-between the lines or change the words of scripture. "becoming a man" or "taking on human nature" is totally not in the same category as "taking the form of a servant." The comparison between the former and later in the verse would be apples-to-oranges, as they say. 4) I believe when it says "in the form of God" it is likely referring to either Jesus' lordship or his sinlesness or both. Jesus has been exalted by God to God's right hand and has been made Lord. He is ruling the world on behalf of God as he has been appointed. Instead of acting like the king of the world, he instead washed his disciples' feet. He also was sinless, therefore being like God. The pharisees acted like they were perfect and treated everyone else like peons. Instead of being like the Pharisees, Jesus didn't use his piousness to look down on others.

[@brandonr4452]

@@scotthix2926 I would believe that if it was in the Bible.

[@thelckr3829]

I admire James White patience 👋, sticking to the rules.

[@johnspartan98]

What debate was that? Not this one.

[@larrythrasher9713]

Are you serious. That is the exact opposite of what James White did.

[@nathan010810]

Dale Tuggy is a trained philosopher, White is not and debates well only with those who don’t identify as Christian. When debating those who identify as Christian, he operates with a presumption of Sola Scripture and his special dictionary of Calvinism. I don’t doubt that JW believes what he does sincerely or that he is trying to win souls, but he almost totally lacks grace with other Christians not called Michael Brown. And wow he is a total ass to Leighton Flowers.

[@brandonr4452]

1:36:55 Never Ever said in scripture. In fact the exact opposite is said in scripture. No writer of the NT says that God had to die for our sins. That is completely a manmade idea.

[@maxspringer01]

Right! In fact they take the time to say the opposite! Romans 5 explains why it is one man who died!

[@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel]

Trinitarian usage of the word God is completely unbiblical Trinity doctrine= God is one being three persons God= 1 being= 3 persons= The Father + The Son + The Spirit To Jesus Christ -> God= The Father Even if you try and reject that the word God, when used in reference to the God of the Bible is referring to a person and is somehow referring to a being and those things are not the same. To Jesus the being of God is The Father. To Jesus God=The Father.

[@fLUKEYdNb]

1. The phrase-‘ergo emi’ is not the full phrase used by YeHoVaH in the old testament-it is ‘ergo emi hu on’ YeHoVaH says tell them ‘hu on’ sent you. And in the next verse reveals His name YeHoVaH. 2. Other people use the ergo emi (I am) phrase - they were not claiming to be God either. 3. The argument that the Pharasies ‘knew’ that Yeshua was stating that he is God is easily refuted by reading until the end of chapter 10 where the same men ‘did not’ know who Yeshua was claiming to be. 4. Singular verses taken out of context do not suffice as evidence, understanding context audiences and the full passage do. 5. Yeshua was actually stating in the context that he is the light of the world as he speaks and does the will of YeHoVaH 6. English translation obscures the meaning from the Greek - specifically Yeshua is saying before Abraham was - I was foreknown/pre-planned by YeHoVaH.

[@maxspringer01]

Yes! God says "tell them HO ON has sent you!" And it is telling that when Moses goes to tell everyone who sent him, he never says "I AM has sent me". Rather, what he tells them is "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" has sent him. Also, as far as an I am statement, Paul himself says something way closer to ego eimi when he says "by the grace of God I AM WHAT I AM" and no one is falling over themselves proclaiming that Paul must have been claiming to be God.

[@WilliamStrain-th4xw]

God in the Old Testament I AM (Exodus 3:14-15; Isaiah 48:12) The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1) The Light (Psalm 27:1) The Rock (Psalm 18:2) Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6) Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12) The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16) God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8) The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezra 34:9) First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12) Jesus’ Reference to Himself I AM (John 8:58) The Shepherd (John 10:11) The Light (John 8:12) The Rock (Matthew 7:24) Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18) Judge of all (John 5:22) The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1) Jesus’ words never pass away (Mark 13:31) The Sower (Matthew 13:3-9) First and the Last (Revelation 1:17-18)

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

As God's Messianic agent, the things said of God can be said about Jesus. Except for "I am." Jesus did not claim he was God by saying "ego eimi." If you are interested in truth, look into it further.

[@WilliamStrain-th4xw]

That is not an argument! Compare Ex. 3:14, with John 8:58. Jesus meant EXACTLY THAT.@@LoveAndLiberty02

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

@WilliamStrain-th4xw "The Septuagint translates the “I am that I am” of Exodus 3:14 as “ego eimi ho on.” Ego eimi is simply the “be verb” and not a name or an identity. God said “I am (ego eimi) ho on.” Thus, ho on is God’s name, not ego eimi. Scholars admit that ho on is difficult to translate, but it roughly means the self-existing one. So in Exodus 3:14 God said, “I am (ego eimi) the Self-Existing One (ho on). If Jesus had wanted to say he was God in John 8:58, he simply could have said, “I am (ego eimi) that I am (ho on),” or “I am (ego eimi) the Self Existing One (ho on).” But he didn’t. He simply said, “before Abraham was born, I am the one” or “I am the Christ ” or “I am the Son of Man.”

[@mewtwo3046]

YHWH is Satan. Jesus Christ never changes. How could he go from destroying cities, killing babies, sacrifices, genocide, etc. to nothing but love and life in the NT. Jesus/Father don't have power over death.

[@jaylonbachman]

⁠@@LoveAndLiberty02hilarious. The man gave you 10/10 claims of Yahweh in the OT that Jesus took for Himself in the NT. And your rebuttal is, “well, Jesus didn’t finish completely the I AM statement.” Ha. Astounding. And what exactly was the significance of Jesus stating, “before Abraham was, I AM,” that made the Pharisees pick up stones to stone Him?

[@ronmacy7975]

At 7:10 in the video, James White displays a slide of quotes from Hebrews 1. His slide says: “In v. 8 the writer identifies the Son as “God,” and he continues his demonstration of the superiority of the Son to the angelic creatures.” Then, Dr. White skips to verse 10. His slide continues: “V. 10 begins simply with kai, continuing the introduction to v. 8, “to the Son he says.” So, without question, v. 10-12 are purposefully applied to the Son, directly from Psalm 102” Dr. White, here, does not tell the whole truth. He jumps over verse 9 which clearly shows that the Son described as “God” in verse 8 has a God, the God of verse 9. The implication of the Son having a God means that the word, “God,” in verse 8 is a title or indicates that “God” is used to indicate the Son is a representative of the true God. Verse 9 also indicates that the superior God anoints the Son who is called “God.” The superior God would be Yahweh and Yahweh is separate and distinct from the Son in verse 8. At 56:51 in the video, Dr. White begins to paraphrase the reading of Revelation 5:4-8. Dr. White states that the Lamb when “he had taken the scroll the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. ” Dr. White, again, is not telling the whole truth. He partially quotes verses 4, 5, and 6 and then jumps to verse 8. Left out is verse 7. “And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne.” White is ignoring the description of Jesus taking the scroll from the right hand of Yahweh. Because Yahweh is sitting on the throne and Jesus is standing before Him, taking the scroll from His hand, Jesus cannot be Yahweh. Jesus is clearly a separate and distinct being from Yahweh. At 1:35:51 of the video, Dr. White points to another time in John 8 where Jesus uses the “I am” statement. He rushes to insist that the Jews pick up stones to stone Jesus, insisting that Jesus is quoting Isaiah 43:10. Conveniently unreferenced is John 8:25. “Then they were saying to Him, ‘Who are You?’” Which indicates that they did not hear Jesus claiming to be God. Dr. White does not reference John 8:28 where Jesus again uses the “I am” language. Did the Jews pick up stones to stone Jesus, then? No. Why? Because they still did not hear Jesus claiming to be God. They repeat their question in John 8:53, “Whom do You make Yourself out to be?” The only time they picked up stones to kill Jesus was when he suggested that something more important than Abraham was among them in John 8:58. Periodically through out the debate, Dr. White seems to chastise Dr. Tuggy for using non-biblical language. Then at 1:36:48, Dr. White repeatedly uses the phrase, “God man” to describe Jesus. It is not appropriate for Dr. Tuggy to use language not found in the Bible, but when Dr. White uses non-biblical language, it is fine. I suggest a double standard in Dr. White.

[@selamewnetu4975]

That is what I notice from Dr White he is expert in sliding through and reading half of the versus not only here I watch his debate with Sir Antony B. He know the truth but purposely denies the truth.

[@towbiyah998]

Your Hebrews verse 9 is irrelevant, so what you admit is that you do have God YHWH calling the Son God but it’s a God which to your understanding is more of a title Then you claim this shows that God is distinct from the son which means he can’t be YHWH. You just exactly described the trinity, the Writer of Hebrews described the trinity which you alluded to was modalism where they believe that God morphs into the son and the the spirit . But the writer of Hebrews purposefully made God and the Son separate. When you read verse 10 this is where Unitarians do gymnastics as God says to the Son you created the Heavens and the earth with your hands referring to pslams 102. One Unitarian said it’s talking about the New heaven and New earth . I just said can you just deal with the text and stop doing gymnastics.

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

@towbiyah998 Mr.Towbiyah, do you know why Unitarians say that it is in reference to the new heavens/earth, the new age/world to come, in other words the coming Kingdom of God? Has anyone shared that with you?

[@peat381low8]

If I could describe James White in one word it would be condescending.

[@arcticraven2462]

Yes unless its Doug Wilson.

[@larrythrasher9713]

The fact that Doctor White tells us that the revelation of the Trinity doctrine happened in the crease of your Bible between the Old and New Testament is, perhaps, an accidental admission by him that the revelation of the Trinity was not made in the Old or New Testament! And whatever happened to sola scriptura?

[@johnspartan98]

In short: Accept James White's god-man theory and believe Jesus is YAHWEH, or you need to study more and you are not saved (sarcasm). OR, Apply the common sense God gave you to the plain texts of the Bible and you arrive at the truth which is precisely what Dale Tuggy's position is....THE TRUTH.

[@joelc-gc1hq]

How do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said to them before Abraham was I am

[@joelc-gc1hq]

How do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said to them before Abraham was I am

[@joelc-gc1hq]

@@dannymcmullan9375 before Abraham was I am

[@upclosepersonal]

Begotten Son. Thats not the father. God is not a man​@@dannymcmullan9375

[@upclosepersonal]

@@dannymcmullan9375 Too many distinctions in the Bible saying God the father and son of God 2 different people a father cannot be a son and a son cannot be A. Father to himself. The father and I are 1 means 1 in the same purpose not one as the same person.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

Oh, sort out 'being" and "persons" 🤔. Really? Childlike faith can understand a 'Father-Son' relationship ... don't complicate it with some Greek philosophy of a Trinity.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

Ignatius and someone else cannot override the plain Scripture! Sorry, Mr White.

[@superfluity-of-naughtiness777]

Agree, even though i am not sure Mr Ignatius actually stated that Jesus is YHWH or believed that Jesus is the second person in trinity and Holy Ghost is the 3rd person in the trinity...Even if he did, if his writings are from 110AD, then that is long enough after Christ and apostles for falsities to creep in...even 5 or 10 years after is too long...

[@ManlyServant]

ignatius also says roman catholic church is true,i wonder if james white will believe that too,ignatius letter is just so fake

[@superfluity-of-naughtiness777]

@@ManlyServant Personally, i don't trust anyone's writings after the new testament...especially anything after 100 AD...i think we all know it dont take a long time at all to have false doctrines creeping in...even the New Testament asserts false teachings while the apostles were still alive...the trinity is a contrived farcical joke, that requires magik to believe

[@eternalchilofgod3]

Objective review. I believe in James White's opening he did a decent job of presenting the Trinitarian argument. Unfortunately, he also made many statements of "fact" that he did not substantiate. Such as "Lord" only being used for Yahweh. Or that the father in Hebrews 1 actually said to the son "You laid the foundations of the earth" Where did the father say this to the son? Where was the Hebrew writer gleaning this information from? He also asserts that when Isaiah saw the glory of the Messiah, he must've been referring to a singular event. 1 Peter says the prophets saw the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should FOLLOW those sufferings. He claims its talking about judgement but does not tell the audience when Jesus will judge the world. Quoting hymns from Trinitarians as proof of the early church believing a trinity was cute. He doesn't tell the audience that the Carmen Christi is a 20th century work. Calling this the "early church" is misleading at best. It is nothing more than a trinitarian interpretation of Phil 2 in the form of a hymn. They claim the early church understood the way they do. The rest of his opening is built upon this shaky foundation. Opening statement grade -C

[@AstariahJW]

It doesn't say acknowledge jesus as yehweh It says acknowledge jesus as lord

[@timothyvenable3336]

You are correct… but it is a quote from the Old Testament that is referring explicitly to Yehweh, so the writer is saying Jesus is our Lord, Yehweh

[@AstariahJW]

@@timothyvenable3336 No not really Many servants of Jehovah God were called lord Doesn't mean they are all Jehovah

[@timothyvenable3336]

@@AstariahJW but none of those servants are regarded as being on the same level as God the Father, worthy of being lord of our hearts

[@AstariahJW]

@@timothyvenable3336 Neither was jesus He was sent to do the fathers will He didn't do his own will Jesus said I can do nothing on my own and does what father tells him to do Does almighty God Jehovah does someone else will?

[@timothyvenable3336]

@@AstariahJW have you read Philippians chapter 2? Being the very essence of God, set aside his divinity and took on humanity. He temporarily set aside his divine attributes like knowing the future and subjected himself to death… how do you get around that?

[@edwardsloan5370]

Yaweh is One. Lord Jesus came forth from the Father (John 8:42) and the Holy Spirit came forth from the Father(John 15:26) Jesus is the Word from the beginning that became flesh(man) (John 1:1 John 1:14)

[@JRizk88]

And the word WAS GOD. ALL THINGS were made through him, and without him was not ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. Jesus is the eternal uncreated God.

[@johnspartan98]

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus or the Apostles ever refer to Jesus as the word. That's a man made doctrine.

[@mewtwo3046]

YHWH is Satan. Jesus Christ never changes. How could he go from destroying cities, killing babies, sacrifices, genocide, etc. to nothing but love and life in the NT. Jesus/Father don't have power over death.

[@r.rodriguez4991]

1:26:36 this question was great. I think Tuggy could have gone a little farther with it. White doesn't want to say Yahweh died on the cross. Yet he argues that God died for our sins. I would have asked him if Yahweh and God are interchangeable terms. Then I'd ask him if Jesus and God are interchangeable terms. Then I'd ask if God died on the cross. Then I'd ask again if Yahweh died in the cross. At some point he has to admit that one of those things is not the same as the other. I think this is the strongest way to question a trinitarian in cross examination. Ask them the same question using supposed interchangeable terms to show that they can't answer consistently.

[@maxspringer01]

for people willing to admit they were wrong and to go where the Bible leads them, this is an effective method. But for people like James White in this debate, he wouldn't answer those questions straightforwardly. He would turn the answers around by rolling out some creedal statement or Trinitarian line, rather than answer in the way that he knows shows he's wrong.

[@r.rodriguez4991]

@@maxspringer01 Right but I think that would become very evident in contrast to such simple questions.

[@maxspringer01]

@@r.rodriguez4991I agree. It would be a great way of demonstrating the point to the audience, even if the interlocutor dances around it and doesn't answer straight. The audience can see what's going on!

[@fruitsnacks155]

when you have slides for your rebuttal, it means you don’t wanna deal with the actual arguments made by your opponent in their opening statement.

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

The speakers exchanged opening statements, which means they both prepared their rebuttals beforehand. Note that Dr. Tuggy did respond point by point to Dr. Whites opening statement, while Dr. White did not respond to Dr. Tuggy’s opening statement. White’s complaint was projection, it was actually he that failed to engage.

[@davidmalverde7374]

Tuggy couldn't justify his assumption that God cannot be human and divine, having two natures. That would be a metaphysical argument. He presented his case based on that philosophical assumption and started reading texts in that way. He has to do exegesis to get unitarian doctrine rather than trinitarian one. For a metaphysical debate he has to deal with the doctrine of pure act of being and his power to actualize a less potency like human nature.

[@taylorsmobilecarvehicleval6272]

Love how dr white quotes rev 5 but completely ignored the fact that Jesus had to earn his worthiness through his sacrifice. God would never need to earn it

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

Prove to me that God is only the Father.

[@taylorsmobilecarvehicleval6272]

@@jeffreytrinidad3564 the burden of proof is on you making the claim that he isn’t

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

@@taylorsmobilecarvehicleval6272 John 17:3 New King James Version 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. This verse does not prove that the Father is the only true God. Here's the reasons why: Reasons why John 17:3 is not only the Father, but the Father and the Son. 1) Jesus is praying for his disciples who are Jews. Born as Jews, growing up as Jews and having the Old Testament as their Scriptures; they definitely believed and knew all their life that the Father is the only true God. Jesus does not need to pray for them to know the Father as the only true God.

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

@@taylorsmobilecarvehicleval6272 ​Reasons why John 17:3 is not only the Father, but the Father and the Son. 2) Jesus did not put a period (.) after true God.

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

@@taylorsmobilecarvehicleval6272 ​Reasons why John 17:3 is not only the Father, but the Father and the Son. 3) Jesus used the word "and" even including himself.

[@thelckr3829]

Thank you Dr James White, standing with the truth

[@cuthbertmweemba6850]

"...Thy throne, O God..." 🙏🙏🙏

[@LookOutForNumberOne]

That is impossible, because he just believes in it. He does not know it. He commits the fallacy of Circular Argument, it is the case because the bible says so.

[@nelsonescobar7248]

Sabemos que Jesús dijo que Él existió antes de Abraham (Juan 8:58). Él declaró que es uno con Su Padre (Juan 10:30) y que Él es igual a Dios (Juan 5:17-18). No solo proclamó ser Dios, sino que declaró tener el poder de Dios.

[@PeterRoss-g5j]

Mr. Tuggy. Jesus you say may not have sinned. You have forgotten. He would have inherited Adams sin. And therefore is not sinless. In fact that being true the deceiver, Satan would have become His spiritual father. (And is yours). As we all (mankind) are born in trespassers and sin, seperated from GOD. My. TUGGY; "REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. Unless you believe (trust) that Jesus Christ, is the incarnate Yahweh. You are wthout hope and shall be Judged, (as in fact you already are), by HIM. Peter. "HisbyGrace" Eph.2vs8.

[@dboulos7]

Nicaea has blinded the eyes of so many.

[@Katt19941]

This was a painful debate to listen to. Dale Tuggy does not know how to do exegesis whatsoever, couldn't follow basic rules in cross examination and his presuppositions wouldn't allow him to let scripture speak for itself. Dr. James White did a great job as always. I could his frustration at times, honestly I understand why. Statement making and twisting terminology in cross examination is frustrating.

[@whiteknight557]

Tuggy smoked White. White complained that Tuggy didn't address any of his scriptures and then Tuggy went straight in to addressing them and White still closed by saying he didn't cause White had no clue what to do. His typical debate tactics didn't work this time! He says he prefers Biblical terms and then talks solely about the trinity, triune god, and hypostatic union none of which are in the Bible. *slow clap*

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

God is ONE INFINITE BEING. Dictionary Definitions from Oxford Languages · Infinite adjective 1. limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate. The bible is clear that God is one infinite being. Him being Infinite would be impossible to measure or calculate. Infinity has no limits. IT MEANS THAT GOD CAN NOT BE ADDED, SUBTRACTED, MULTIPLIED OR EVEN BE DIVIDED. HE IS ONE AND WOULD ALWAYS BE ONE. The bible is also clear that this ONE INFINITE BEING is Yahweh. The bible is also clear that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are UNITED YAHWEH. John 3:11 New King James Version 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. Here we can see that one singular person "I" is suddenly switch to plural "We" and "Our." This is ONE SPEAKS AS THREE AND THREE SPEAK AS ONE. Who are these witnesses that the Son is talking about? The answer is: 1 John 5:7 New King James Version 7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. If the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are united; how are they united? The answer is found in: Deuteronomy 6:4 King James Version 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God is one Yahweh: Hear, O Israel: Yahweh our God is UNITED Yahweh: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are UNITED Yahweh; they are united as one God. IF YOU ARE SAYING THAT EACH MEMBER BEING ADDED WOULD MAKE GOD 3 GODS; THEN YOU ARE DOING ADDITION AND THAT WOULD INVALIDATE THE MEANING OF INFINITE. IF YOU ARE SAYING THAT EACH MEMBER IS 1/3 OF THE WHOLE, THEN YOU ARE DOING DIVISION; THAT WOULD ALSO INVALIDATE THE MEANING OF INFINITE.

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

Proof #13 The Son is God and Man KNOWS DAY AND HOUR, DOES NOT KNOW DAY AND HOUR Objection on the Deity of the Son: Mark 13:32 New King James Version 32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. God is Omniscient; He knows all things. The Son does not know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom; therefore, he can not be God. The Son is God and Man. 100% God and 100% Man. When he said that he does not know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom; he is talking in respect of his humanity. He is saying that no angels or humans, including himself as human, know it. Now, the question is: Is the Son being God knows the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom? The answer to that is yes. Acts 1:6-7 New King James Version 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them,➡️“It is not for you to know times or seasons⬅️which the Father has put in His own authority. Take note: The Son said, "It is not for you to know times or seasons." He did not say, "It is not for us to know times or seasons." By not including himself, he is implying that he does know the day and the hour of his coming to restore the kingdom. Are there other verses that would prove that Jesus is Omniscient? Yes John 21:17 New King James Version 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. John 16:30 New King James Version 30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.” JESUS' DIVINITY - KNOWS DAY AND HOUR JESUS' HUMANITY - DOES NOT KNOW DAY AND HOUR

[@InvestigadorTJ]

James White brings up Jehovahs Witnesses and how his talk with a JW evolved: he said if Jesus is called YHWH, then all those arguments between Witnesses and Trinitarian Apologist become irrelevant. The problem is that is the End result of everything else. There are many many biblical text that negatively take us to another conclusion with clear explanations and no use of philosophy nor reasoning. That would be based on the inspiration of the text itself. He is creating a provocative thought but there are too many issues with trinitarianism: think about it it took hundreds of years to establish all the parts of the trinity that means they had to face too many theological problems to explain what they have now.. even move or evolve the trinity from the past trinity that the church fathers had

[@trevorsimpson4784]

Someone needs to explain the Shema and what did Mary and the apostles believe it to mean? Did Mary believe that God (the father) put God (the Son) via God (the Holy Spirit) into her womb?

[@lymanleslie3097]

After watching this debate I no longer believe in the trinity.

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

Wow! It’s encouraging to hear about people that study this sincerely, and change their mind!

[@UnitarianChristianAlliance]

If you use Facebook, you would be most welcome in the UCA Facebook group. facebook.com/share/g/zD1ns4hNmB7Xw5b4/?mibextid=K35XfP

[@GodHasCommonsense]

You never believed it at first anyways. Because nobody who believed in the Trinity before watching the debate will ever change his mind. The Bible clearly states that God is in three persons

[@Mandellhouse]

@@GodHasCommonsenseThat idea is totally untrue. The Jews, even Jesus as a Jew, never believed in the Holy Spirit as a person. Jesus acknowledged that the Jews have the correct view of the true God and his worship (John 4;22-29). Also, all of the many visions of God on his throne do not speak of three persons. The greetings in the NT also speak only of Jehovah and Jesus. Rev 14;1 describes heaven having two key characters; Jehovah on the throne, and the Lamb. Hebrews chapters 5 through 10 speak of the spiritual Christian Temple, with only Jehovah in the “most holy” compartment… and Jesus as the high priest acting between God and man. A mediator cannot be one of the primary characters, nor said to be a ‘witness’ legally, or ‘loyal’ or ‘obedient’.

[@Mandellhouse]

@@Jesus_1029 The real losers are the ones who don’t recognise the true God; they hide Him behind Jesus who is actually the “mediator”. 1 Tim 2;5 The truth is very simple, that the Most High God is singular (‘El’), and that the Christ is WITH God and is his ‘Son’, not his brother or twin.

[@JKV84]

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God (the father), and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. One true and most high God the father Yah. One Lord Jesus Christ. Moving on from trini manmade nonsense.

[@NCSiebertdesign]

I wonder who said "I am the Lord of sabbath"? When God is God of sabbath, no one else is.

[@asmallfarmhomestead3657]

@@NCSiebertdesign “And he said to them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath; So that the Son of man is lord even of the Sabbath.” How exactly does the prove your point?

[@dualtags4486]

1 Corinthians 8:6. You assume because it saids one God, the Father. It means only he can be God. Now be consistent with your interpretation. It also saids one Lord, Jesus Christ. Does that exclude the Father from being Lord too? According to your interpretation it is. Also quite convenient you quote John 17:3 but don’t read verse 1-5, typical Unitarian heretic

[@JKV84]

@@dualtags4486 where have I Said there is only one god? Jesus is god but not the most high and true one God who alone is the father Yah. Jesus is our Lord and saviour but offcourse the father is the most high and Ultimate LORD over all. There are many gods and many Lords. Satan is the god of this world. The angels are called gods. Who is in the category of being the one true God? Nothing in John 1:1-5 says that Jesus is the one true God. You cannot be God and be with that same God at the same time. It is nonsense. In the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with the the two persons of the Trinity God the father and the spirit and Jesus was part of the Trinity God as God the son. That is how you read the verse - but it is not what is says.

[@NCSiebertdesign]

@@asmallfarmhomestead3657 since it was God that made sabbath, in fact He is the first to do "sabbath" therefore He is the Lord of the sabbath. Throughout O.T. God set "rules" of what sabbath should be and purpose of it, not any man or even angels beside Jesus since He is God dwell in flesh. If God dictated sabbath and Jesus said He is the Lord of sabbath therefore Jesus is God no doubt.

[@NickHawaii]

Jehovah is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. (Exodus 6:3) Acts 3:13 says Jesus is the servant of the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Not the same being.

[@elestir]

Firstly, the term παῖδα used in greek can also be translated as child, not always as servant. But even if servant meaning was intended, it may be ok, as long as we are speaking of Jesus till his baptism, for the spirit of Son of God wasn't in him before that. This is in accord with apperance of the voice from heaven: "This is my Son...", that occurs right after the baptism.

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

Prove to me that Father is the only God.

[@AlexLightGiver]

Jesus asked that we see him as a teacher a friend and brother we are family

[@angelak8681]

at 6:40 I don't understand why they're using the Greek, was it originally written in Hebrew or Greek?

[@h.sumantri1860]

Mr. White answered questions with Trinitarian Doctrines, not by Biblical texts. The word "YAHWEH" from "YHWH" is already tells us that is the NAME of The Almighty God, the God of Abraham, God of Isaac and God of Israel. Khurios, the Lord is "Master" and NEVER means "YAHWEH"

[@Itsaramis13]

This is incorrect. Early Jewish people put LORD in place of Yahweh because they feared using Gods name in vain and because they believed his name was too holy for us to say. Most bible translations state this in the first few pages. In many instances Jesus is referred to as LORD (Yahweh) by connecting him with scriptures from the Old Testament which do so as James White pointed out.

[@Carnivorelifestyle]

@@Itsaramis13there are differences between those two. Lord is adonai and the LORD is YHWH the Almighty one

[@albertadlg]

​@gumballswift1396 Then we have a problem. Abraham is then God Almighty too...lol. Sarah named Abraham Lord too. I my...:)

[@albertadlg]

YHWH is His Name, like Jesus. Lord and God is titles like in Isaiah 7 and 9. If you actually read Isaiah 9 in the oldest translation (Septuagint) the title is not Everlasting Father it's actually the Messenger (Malak). Like the Malak in Exodus, the Malak in Malachi 3 and Malak in Psalm 30:4:)

[@houbertcanitio2199]

@@albertadlg No you are wrong because the word for everlasting father in Hebrew is A bi ad which mean The Everlasting or The Eternal not Malak which is a messenger

[@kerryweinholz1731]

White insults the Shema and every Jew and Jesus ... and that makes me cringe! Jesus affirmed the Shema in its traditional Jewish understanding (that has had labelled Judaism as 'monotheism') (Mark 12:29,32).

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

John 17.3, John 20.17, Rev 1.5-6, Rev 3.12.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

"I am" is either an answer to question or it's an incomplete sentence .. but it isn't a name.

[@aussierob7177]

I AM is God's name.

[@SimplyAwesomeOriginal]

​​​​​​@@aussierob7177 "I am who I am" or "I will be who I will be" is what people will experience God to be. To us, God's own people, his name is YHWH (Yahweh), the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob - and the only true God that sent us Jesus; the anointed one, the Christ in English, the Messiah in Hebrew (John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6). We also know God to be our father (Galatians 4:4-7, Hebrews 2:10-13). "I am" is NOT - and NEVER was - God's name! Read Exodus 3:13-15 again.

[@aussierob7177]

@@SimplyAwesomeOriginal Before Abraham was I AM

[@kerryweinholz1731]

@@aussierob7177 "AM" isn't a Hebrew word - it's added to satisfy English grammar rules. And it isn't a name - it's God's statement about himself, "I will be Who I will be" - Exodus 3:14. God's name is in Exodus 3:15 "YHVH".

[@aussierob7177]

@@kerryweinholz1731 I am telling you the truth Jesus replied. Before Abraham was, I AM

[@Tommy-lf8sl]

Revelation 1:8 New International Version 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Jesus said Iam the alpha and the Omega who was and who is going to come the almighty one...... Jesus is the almighty one he is Yahweh.

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

A human, no matter how good, could not have atoned for the sins of the world....I notice the gentleman who claims Jesus is just a man doesn't talk about that. I'm halfway through, so maybe it's yet to be discussed

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

And he did❤, during the q and a section. I admire people who question what they believe and change their minds after serious study.

[@jonathancrocker366]

Dr. White did an outstanding job.

[@truthreigns3465]

Of course he is an intellectual , and he is still wrong

[@ranajee7941]

I'm not a Christian but I have watched a lot of debates on Unitarianism vs Trinitarianism and always felt something missing, Even tho Unitarianism always made more sense to me but other arguments from trinitarian doctrine were not that bad at all for me until I heard Mr Tuggy. I mean he just decently and logically destroyed James White like he just came with the final nail in the coffin of trinity. Loved it.

[@alphonsedenny4962]

ranajee7941, BOTH, James White & Tuggy show that they are confused and MISREPRESENT Jesus. James White is a Trinitarian and supports "The Trinity Doctrine" which states The Father, Son & Holy Spirit are 3 DISTINCT PERSONS - that is "The Father is NOT The Son or The Holy Spirit, The Son is NOT The Father or The Holy Spirit, and The Holy Spirit is NOT The Father or The Son" - BUT IN THIS VIDEO HE SAYS THAT "JESUS IS YHWH". It is clear that James White is confused! THE FACT IS THE THE BIBLE STATES/PREACHES THAT "God The Father YHWH IS THE SON & HOLY SPIRIT" - that is "JESUS IS YHWH"! So, James White is correct in saying "JESUS IS YHWH" but WRONG IN BELIEVING "THE TRINITY DOCTRINE"! Tuggy is wrong in saying that Jesus is NOT God - he does not look at the Bible as a whole. JESUS SAID THAT HE IS THE ALMIGHTY GOD in Revelation 1:8.

[@alphonsedenny4962]

ranajee7941, The Bible preaches A TRIUNE GOD, not The Trinity Doctrine which states '"THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE HOLY SPIRIT & THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE SON"! YOU FAILED TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "A TRIUNE GOD" & "THE TRINITY DOCTRINE"! IF GOD IS NOT A TRIUNE GOD, WHY DID JESUS GIVE THE COMMAND TO BAPTISE "In The Name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit"? God is triune is not the problem - the problem of the Trinity Doctrine is that it states that "THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, THE SON IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE HOLY SPIRIT & THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT THE FATHER OR THE SON"? BUT THE BIBLE PREACHES THAT THE FATHER IS THE SON & THE HOLY SPIRIT! Can you see the contradiction? God is NOT "THREE...persons in ONE" BUT ONE GOD IN THREE FORMS - FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT! Why can't God separate Himself and come to earth AS "The Son of God"? JESUS SAID in John 16:27 "I CAME OUT FROM GOD". If there is only ONE God and rightly, than how can Jesus be different Person from God the Father? If Jesus is the Savior and God also claimed He is the ONLY Savior and none else, so did the Bible get confused and anyone speak lie? I WORSHIP THE ONE GOD THE FATHER WHO MANIFESTED HIMSELF AS FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT IN HIS NAME YHWH (YaHuWaH). WHEN WE WORSHIP GOD IN HIS NAME YHWH (YaHuWaH), WE WORSHIP THE FATHER, SON & HOLY SPIRIT AS ALL THREE HAVE THE SAME ONE GLORIOUS/GREATEST NAME IN EARTH & HEAVEN.

[@toolpost7264]

⁠you are preaching the heresy of modalism!

[@alphonsedenny4962]

@@toolpost7264 , Can you show/state any mistake in my comment? I am NOT a modalist.

[@toolpost7264]

@@alphonsedenny4962 yes, you and modalism both claim that there is one God who manifests as the father, son, and spirit. Perhaps you are Oneness Pentecostal?

[@DukeOfMarshall]

Well done brother Dale! Reinforced why I left trinitarianism.

[@dualtags4486]

You left for a false gospel. Nice

[@DukeOfMarshall]

@@dualtags4486 Thank you for your input. Your opinion has been noted.

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

@dualtags4486 And what false gospel would that be? Are you claiming that the scriptures state that we must believe in a triune being or we don't believe the gospel? I'll wait for you to provide that verse from the scriptures.

[@LoveAndLiberty02]

False. The Bible nowhere states he is antichrist that denies Jesus is God, or that he is a two natured being that is part of a triune being. The scriptures state he is antichrist that denies Jesus is the Christ, that he is come in the flesh, ie, a real man, because it was common in those days for pagans to believe in "god/men" that weren't human beings. I would be careful if I were you, calling someone an antichrist that the Bible does not.

[@DukeOfMarshall]

@@Yce_Take Your opinion and lack of verse has been noted. @V_George wrote: "You left trinitarianism and hence deny that Jesus is God because of the spirit of Antichrist"

[@PRHC38]

Another problem with Dr Whites interpretation which shows heavy on the eisegesis. White states, “when Jesus says ‘I am’ to the men that came to get him in the garden proves he is ‘Yehovah’ (not Yahweh, that’s also incorrect)”. However if we use exegesis and let the text speak as to what he is referring to when he says “I am” it becomes very clear he is answering the question, “whom do you seek?”. They say, “Jesus of NAZARETH”, Jesus says, “I am”. The man is saying “I am Jesus of Nazareth” according to context. Not reading into it. That’s 1. The second point is this. They didn’t fall back because he said “I am” or just because of that statement. The purpose of the demonstration of the power is also contained in the text so that they would understand not to mess with those that were with him but to let them go. He repeats his identity twice with the latter qualification…read… Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon him, went forth, and saith unto them, Whom seek ye? Jhn 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, who betrayed him, was standing with them. Jhn 18:6 When therefore he said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Jhn 18:7 Again therefore he asked them, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, I told you that I am he; if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way: Jhn 18:9 that the word might be fulfilled which he spake, Of those whom thou hast given me I lost not one.

[@letusgather...7820]

How can God "enter into his own creation" if the world has been defiled by sin? The risen Jesus could not be touched by Mary because he had not yet ascended to his father (meaning at least to me that he had to be unstained by sin) but if Jesus is Yahweh, and the father is Yahweh, is Jesus*Yahweh* returning to .... himself??? How can God be unchanging and then change into a human being? Why does Jesus keep saying things that make him inferior to the God he's supposed to be, and say things that make God the Father the only God, and Jesus God's unique son...and said in a way that very clearly makes them two separate beings?

[@dboulos7]

Dr. Tuggy - the voice of reason, ...which ultimately brings glory to God ...the Father, alone

[@johnygoodwin3441]

Voice of human reason

[@dboulos7]

@@johnygoodwin3441 How would you know - would you like to explain your god-man theory to us all, ...without looking like a completely confused and incompetent eisegete, putting more faith in man's councils and creeds rather than the wise and comprehensible, glorifying word of God? Anytime you're ready....?

[@johnygoodwin3441]

@@dboulos7 If it makes you feel better to argue that the God man 'theory' comes from Catholic creeds then keep saying that to yourself, it's what the Bible says that I'm interested in; But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

[@dboulos7]

@@johnygoodwin3441 I asked you to explain your god-man theory: in ontological and soteriological terms. In other words, you're misinterpreting your 'proof-text' - if your conclusions make absolutely no sense, you've misunderstood the meaning , and therefore most likely, eisegeted the text. John 10:35 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came- and the Scripture cannot be broken- 36 then what about the One whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world?

[@johnygoodwin3441]

@@dboulos7 Nice try, no obfuscation please, explain to me how I'm misinterpreting this text and the one that follows; “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.” You can try and skate round it and deflect by quoting John, we can look at that when you give a satisfactory answer to Hebrews 1. We don't need to use philosophy here, just a clear exegesis of the text Will suffice

[@larrythrasher9713]

James White made a HUGE MISTAKE by thinking Tuggy was supposed to address what White said in his opening statement in Tuggy's opening statement!! Opening statements are NOT the place for rebuttals. White had Tuggy's opening statement weeks ahead of time, along with the rules of the debate. Knowing that, White's error doesn't make him look stupid, but it does make him look dishonest, unchristian, and very mean spirited, betrayedby his mocking tone. The first goal in any of these debates should be to appear Christ-like in your character and spirit. White failed that test miserably. Later, Tuggy successfully rose to the occasion in his 10 minutes and debunked everything White had said in White's opening statement!! To those with eyes to see, the Trinity died in this debate.

[@timbotron4000]

Does the interlocutor taking the affirmative position provide their opening statement to the one taking the negative position ahead of time? Who bears the burden of proof in a debate like this? The Unitarian position is surely the minority position but given the audience, White's position is the minority and the one making the claim that goes against common opinion.

[@cuthbertmweemba6850]

Your statements seem to have a side. I don't hear you saying Tuggy was incorrect when he said 'the godman' wasn't in the early a belief held by the earliest christian. Perhaps the debate wasn't put appropriately. Him(James) being the second speaker would have been better.

[@brandonr4452]

1:32:55 his attitude and tone of voice show everything. This is why I haven't liked James White since the first time I watched a few of his videos. He is completely insincere and arrogant. All he can do is use garbage arguments (which Dale refuted with trinitarian citations), and use lots of rhetoric to try to sway the audience. He doesn't care about the unitarian ways of interpreting the scripture. He's just another guy with his head in the sand that keeps telling his laypeople to avoid any unitarian content because it's "stupid/bogus/dangerous". Well guess what James White, it doesn't matter how much you and all of the other trinity doctrine salesmen try their best to suppress the truth. Anyone who actually seeks the truth will find it. I have tuned into the "core christianity" radio show a handful of times. They are being bombarded with questions and problems about the trinity. One caller said that she was unable to argue against a unitarian because they had such good biblical arguments. Adriel Sanchez simply went on a BS rant about how unitarians are cultists and cited the same BS "prooftexts" that most IGNORANT apologists use. I tried asking them a hard question about why Dr Fred Sanders said that the doctrine of the trinity wasn't revealed in the Bible. They never answered me. That's really telling...

[@christfollower1898]

John did not say Isaiah saw “Jesus” but rather his “glory. James White seems oblivious to John’s midrashic use of Isaiah 6:1-8. Moreover, the context of Isaiah Temple Vision is not about seeing Jesus but rather visions of the heavenly court, using court-language which anthropomorphise divine figures and attributes. What John did by looking in a backward trajectory is to show his NT audience that Isaiah was forward looking to the “glory” of Christ through resurrection and exaltation. Dale, you could have pressed White more to clarify whether YHVH is a Being or all three ontological and metaphysical persons.

[@savedemmanuel]

In Isaiah 6:1-3 it’s Yahweh’s Glory so unless Jesus is Yahweh he can’t fully possess his glory like here according to Isaiah 42:8 48:11

[@christfollower1898]

@@savedemmanuel The immediate context of Isaiah 6:1-8 is indeed YHVHs glory but the Johannine writer is applying the Hebrew Temple vision to Jesus in John 12:41 “spake of him”…

[@TaxEvasi0n]

You just have to get to a point where you can't argue with nonsense. As soon as someone accepts oxymorons and can't see the problem, you have to disengage. When people use terms like 'god-man' and don't see the scriptural problem, you have to let God deal with them. There is no logic, rationality or sensibility to what it is they believe. When someone doesn't play by the rules of any game, what do you do? You stop playing with them because they just cannot be honest. Many ex trinitarians come to a unitarian understanding because the trinity has far too many problems and it takes far too much mental gymnastics to believe. I argue it takes more intellectual work and capacity, and actually requires the the believer to have a higher RAM storage because you have to juggle so much rubbish at the same time. Let's love James White as someone passionate for Jesus. We cannot help him, but I hope he will get a chance to know the truth, face to face with Christ when he returns.

[@SmurfyLou]

James White you cannot be a biblical Trinitarian as there is no such thing. You can only be a man-made doctrine Trinitarian. As it is a created dogma made by MAN who forcibly pushed the truth out. Sadly this has led millions of "Christians" down the wrong path. And pushed God fearing people out of churches. Amongst other things.

[@GTMGunTotinMinnesotan]

James did a great job of laying it out clearly.

[@kerryweinholz1731]

Biblical Unitarians put God YHVH in His rightful place as Creator (Revelation 4), and Jesus in his rightful place as the human Messiah and Lamb (albeit now resurrected and exalted) (Revelation 5:1-12). One God, and one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

[@King_Conan]

No, you don't, because you ignore every Bible passage that reveals the true nature of God and of Jesus. Why are you only able to accept some truths but not all of them?

[@kerryweinholz1731]

@@King_Conan I have found more coherency, logic, and simplicity in Scripture for the past 14 years since leaving my lifetime of Trinitarian churches at 58. I still love God and his son Jesus passionately. We have a responsibility to love God with all our mind ... so keep checking out what others say (Acts 17:11) and let the Scriptures speak for themselves.

[@King_Conan]

@@kerryweinholz1731 Was the Trinity always problematic for you?

[@joelc-gc1hq]

How do you respond to John 8:58 Jesus said to them before Abraham was I am

[@King_Conan]

@@joelc-gc1hq And then they picked up stones to throw at Him. Jesus made a provocative statement, and they knew what He was saying.

[@donnam1257]

I've watched lots of debates and this was a tense one. I could feel the hostility especially from Dale Tuggy. He came across the same way that some of the Jehovah Witnesses do when they have come to my house.

[@jimjuri6490]

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, THE HEAD OF THE CHRIST IS GOD. The line of SUBMISSION in the Christian Congregational arrangement is what Paul wrote about. If Jesus is YHWH, then we would have Jesus worshipping himself. Which would seem to be an ego problem. Jesus is, who all who come to know him, to be. John 1:34 And I have seen it, and I have given witness that this one IS THE SON OF GOD.”

[@elijahrobinson1691]

James white crumbled in the cross examination round.

[@ManlyServant]

exactly,he said things 99% of trinitarians WOULDNT believe!

[@danieladams_goodnewsworldwide]

Jesus is God and any spirit that says otherwise is an antichrist spirit. John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. In the beginning (before anything) was Jesus, and Jesus was with God the Father and Jesus is God the Father. John 14:9 Jesus said unto him, “Have I been so long a time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, ‘Show us the Father’?

[@liberatedspirit3554]

You are actually the one walking in the spirit of anti-christ "Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the "flesh/as a man" is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus (having come in the flesh as a man) is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time.

[@selamewnetu4975]

When I see Dr White reminds me of the religious people arguing with Jesus.

[@jeffreytrinidad3564]

Prove to me that God is only the Father.