X32/M32: AES50 i/o Sharing between different consoles and stage boxes

[@samdelfavero]

This is the best source of information on this topic that I have found. I've been using the M32 for years and this helped me solve all of the stage box routing issues I've had.

[@HubLocationSound]

I would edit out the part in the beginning about the shielded CAT5 NOT being necessary. It is necessary. Behringer even puts a warning on these devices now. I've seen rental units arrive with a blown up AES50 port and the cable they included... unshielded. This topic deserves it's own video.

[@danielkharrat]

I clearly said that it's not a good idea to use an unshielded cable. There's no direct correlation between using an unshielded cable and blown out ports. The purpose of the shield is to suppress interference and eliminate noise not to prevent the unit from blowing up. Should you always use shielded cables? Yes In a pinch, can you use an unshielded cable? Yes I know a guy that always uses unshielded cables, never had a problem My point is, if units are blowing up, there's a problem elsewhere

[@jimmymugalu9523]

You sound like a buzzing speaker. Your post wasn't necessary. Wether shielded or unshielded it's still a CAT5 or CAT6 and does the same job .. WHAT THE GUY EXPLAINED WAS CLEAR THE IMPORTANCE OF ONE OVER THE OTHER. the blown up ports you pointed out is correct but it is in most cases brought up by poor matching of cable colours while making the cable..fir instance in the long run using one small cable gets out of its socket and taps in another causing a shock in the port.. And this can happen in mostly unshielded.. I personally worked with event companies that use unshielded cables and nothing has EVER HAPPENED TO THEIR MIDAS, BEHRINGER, YAMAHA CL5 etc.. We just go for SHIELDED TO AVOID UNNECESSARY PLUG OUTS.. You must be a lighting guy.. They just pull cables anyhow.. Anyways thanks for the post

[@DustySeven7]

Blown AES port are almost always caused by unshielded cable. The reason is static buildup on the cable. as Jim mentioned Shielded CAT5e cable with ethercons is the spec Music Group has for AES 50. Use of of non shielded cable can actually void the warranty as well. Also cat5e vs cat6a is questioned a lot in groups. The correct cable is cat5e not cat6 or cat6a. The reason for this is the twist rate of the cable. AES50 was designed around the specs of cat5e, that includes the twist rate. In a IP network higher grade cable can help, not with AES 50

[@dbfsound8269]

No correlation between blown ports and unshielded cables? Mate your on crack. Every instance of a blown port the user wasn’t using a shielded cable with ethercons. Never had there been an instance of a blown port where the user was using a shielded ethercon cable. You have no idea what your talking about.

[@muskrat7312]

​@@danielkharrat as an fyi the shileding not only prevents noise but if everything is cabled correctly it grounds the shielding to the chassis on the devices. So it could prevent a blown port depending on what happens. But this requires the cable to be terminated correctly and all devices to be properly grounded. A bad ground could still route voltage to the port and blow it.

[@GKLiveProductions]

The example of connecting two consoles without a stage box was great. First time I've seen a thorough run through example of this. Cheers, great content!

[@johnmcconeghey]

Thank you for this video! As a volunteer, I needed to connect an X32 rack to a venue’s M32 to gain more output jacks for a specific drama performance. Only found out a few hours before the show! Had never done anything of the sort before, but you laid out the process so well, I was able to pull it off in the nick of time! Thanks again!!!

[@Hello.Cory1GHS]

Dude you got some of the best videos around! Thanks for posting everything!

[@itownmusicians]

Great video! You clearly explained the difference between using a shielded or unshielded

[@djado6925]

Amazing Video, Very Clear and Detailed enough

[@toxictime9604]

I didn't know that I didn't know anything about it 😂 cool that I can replay this video as often as I want/need because it's really hard to get at first glance - even though this is my absolute favorite system as a professional sound engineer. Now I'm reconsidering the setup in my rehearsal space and for live situations. Maybe I can get away with a much smaller in ear/monitoring rack if I don't need a physical XLR split to FoH 🤔

[@SuperAgentMan]

This is the best explanation I have found, nice work.

[@GuillaumeLortie]

Hi Daniel ! 👋 GREAT JOB !!!! really good and detailed video. 👍

[@runeskogstad6927]

Lovely outdoor intro! 🙂

[@matoflynn]

Brilliant explanation

[@RicoJocson]

Nice one bro! keep on sharing! kudos!

[@IamRicardoGil]

Thanks for the video. I think it would be helpful to keep things simple when explaining it. Incorporating another console into this scenario really made this confusing.

[@adwareman8349]

thank you!

[@Gladingson1]

Good job done

[@charlesandhisworld]

great video. very clear!

[@PaulVannatto]

Brian Wynn proved to us all (including Music Tribe) 10 years ago that shielded network cable with ethercon shells on each end is imperative to prevent dropouts due to ESD (electro static discharge). All that is needed is one occasion of a dropout during a live event to ruin a reputation for providing professional sound. It isn't worth the risk.

[@JeffFloyd]

Thank you!!!

[@livemixpriyan]

Mannn!! This is on of the best Videos i ve seen here in KZbin regarding M32 Routing. Thanks a Lot. Hope u will do more and more stuff. I ve seen u sold ur M32. Which one are u using currently? Dont u wanna do some Vids related to Wing? Take Care

[@danielkharrat]

I have the m32c with a dl32 stage box I don't personally know anyone that has a wing i can use so unfortunately no videos on the wing

[@livemixpriyan]

@@danielkharrat Oh thats fine. Thanks nevertheless. Take Care

[@TylerMarletteNY]

I wish you could use the full size m32 as a remote controller for the m32c, would help a lot to just patch into venue console without messing with loading sceens and routing, I end up just using the Ipad a lot of times because it’s way easier

[@JeffFloyd]

Yo the MAN!!!

[@promisenangwang9453]

Can I convert HDTV cable with the HDMI port to card5 shield for AES50 for my X32?

[@ogori-peterjunior7521]

genuis thnks

[@OperaStudioMty]

Great Video, bit aim a little bit dizzy :v Thanks for the info!

[@mischastiefenhofer]

I have a x32 rack and a dl32, i always thought that the b port on the stagebox is damaged because of the sync issue...:)

[@hiimlawrence]

How would this apply with a Waves Soundgrid in this equation? Tried linking two stage boxes together with a Waves Soundgrid connected to the console as well but couldn’t get it going. With Waves in this equation, what is the clock master?

[@gracenotes5379]

Nice video, thanks. The user guides for the DL32 or S32 stage box stage boxes show the outputs 1-16 sent to the stage box AES50 B port being shifted to channels 33-48 leaving while reserving channels 1-32 from the the stage box to XLR local inputs. Is this B->A port routing fixed in the S32 or can it be reprogrammed by one of the attached consoles? It would sometimes be useful if the S32/DL32 could have a configurable passthrough mode for 32-track signals coming from the B-port, but I am guessing this is not possible?

[@thesosasoundproductions5033]

Hey, how are you? Thank you for your videos. I just bought my Midas M3 2C I connected it via USB connected speakers to the monitor In the back of the rack. I need a dl32 for it yo work ?

[@danielkharrat]

If you want xlr inputs and outputs you'll need a stagebox but the m32c works on its own it doesn't need another device to function

[@stevenunu05]

Hi! Daniel, just wondering, how many inputs a single Midas M32 mixer can handle? Will this scenario work? - Using 2 DL32 stage box via AES A and AES B - Controlled by 1 Midas M32, so we can have 64 inputs and 32 outputs

[@danielkharrat]

@stevenunu05 the m32 can only do 32 channels with full processing + the 6 aux channels You can connect 3 dl16 or 1 dl32 with 1 dl16 Not 2 dl32 because the AES50 protocol only allows 48 channels

[@miteml8827]

Afeitate capo

[@livemixpriyan]

Hey Daniel, Great Video. Thanks a Lot. Could u please explain what are "Output 1-8" & "Output 9-16" in AES50 Output Section? I am bit confuces. Can u plz explain here? Thanks a lot in Advance

[@danielkharrat]

In the routing menu there's a page called "OUT" in which you can assign each of the 16 outputs to whatever you want But these are not directly connected to a physical xlr output If you look at the "XLR" page, this is where you decide what goes out of the physical xlr outputs on the back of the console By default the local xlr outputs are assigned to out 1-8 and out 9-16 that you can find in the "OUT" page The same goes for the AES50 outputs page So when you assign the AES50 outputs to out 1-8 the console will look at the "OUT" page and see what each one of these outputs is assigned to

[@EldredMerricks]

I use to consoles one for FOH and another for streaming! Currently our internal clock is set to aes50A(master) but I am having a hard time getting my aux in channels 1 and 2 to play through streaming console…any suggestions? When I assigned the aux ins - they signal does not come thru? Please advise.

[@favournjoku3024]

Thank you for the very informative video. I have a question. how do you connect 2 mixers to a stage box? what I mean to say is I want one mixer to control audio for a live stream and one for in house and I'm gonna connect all my mics and line into a stage box and want the signal to be sent to 2 mixers. how would I do that?

[@danielkharrat]

Connect foh mixer from port A to AES50 A on the stage box and then connect AES50 B of the stagebox to the livestream mixer port A and go to setup on the livestream console and set the clock source to aes50 A Then you can go to your inputs page and assign 1-32 to AES50 A 1-32 on both mixers

[@favournjoku3024]

@@danielkharrat thank you so much for the answer but I just have one more question what if you have two stage boxes like I want to use two DL 16s how would I go about connecting that now?

[@danielkharrat]

@favournjoku3024 same thing. FOH mixer A to A on first stage box B from first stage box to A second stage box B from second stage box to A livestream mixer

[@0oTHEJACKo0]

3:13 If only the A port can do the syncing, is the following scenario possible? - a stagebox in the middle between two x32's. - The FoH console from which I want to send the LR signal via AES A to the stagebox and from there via AES B to the AES A input of the x32 in house console. - Hence I cannot use the in house console as the Sync Master? Only the FoH console or the stagebox itself, right? Because the stagebox doesn't receive the sync from AES A but from B and hence doesn't properly sync? -> So the solution is to put the stagebox in the middle into Sync Master?

[@danielkharrat]

@@0oTHEJACKo0 just swap the cables Plug the foh mixer to the A port of the stagebox and the house console to the B port

[@0oTHEJACKo0]

​@@danielkharrat Thanks for your answer Daniel! the cables are already like that! That wasn't the problem ^^ I guess the clock must just come from the FoH console and not from the inhouse (2nd) console. But one follow up question: Is it possible to receive the outputs of the stagebox on the 2nd console? The first console (FoH) sends the signals to the outputs of the stagebox in the middle between the consoles... Was wondering if there is a way

[@danielkharrat]

@0oTHEJACKo0 only the mixer that is connected to the A port of the stagebox can send outputs to that stagebox

[@0oTHEJACKo0]

@@danielkharrat I guess receiving of the outputs to the 2nd console from the 1st one only works with patching the outputs on the stagebox physically with XLR to the inputs and then receiving the inputs on the 2nd console...

[@HubLocationSound]

Thanks for this video. Well done! @13:40 If you select 'HA Gain Split', are both consoles given that same Digital Trim? Does the Master console still have the ability to change Preamps Gain from that page (which happens before both consoles Digital Trim?

[@danielkharrat]

Both consoles have the same preamp gain but the digital trim is separate for each console assuming that the HA gain split is turned on on both consoles You always have the ability to change the preamp gain from the preamps page The HA Gain Split will make the input level of the channel into a digital trim so you cannot change the actual gain of the preamp from the gain knob for the channel The gain knob will become a digital trim and to change the preamp gain you will have to go to the preamps page

[@donm1547]

@@danielkharrat Do both consoles have full channel Fader / dynamics control......does moving one console's fader make the other move also?

[@danielkharrat]

@@donm1547 no you can't control the channel of a console from another console. The only thing you can control is the physical preamp gain

[@jarb75]

Hello! I have a Midas M32 Live with two digital snakes, a DL32 and a DL16. In all the videos they show how the routing is but NOBODY shows with which channels both the inputs and outputs of the DL16 are used. I do not know what volumes or how they are equalized from 33 to 48 of the DL16 or ls outputs from 17 to 24. In page 8 of the Quick Start Menu comes the routing set up but no further information is given. Help please. Thank you.

[@danielkharrat]

The AES50 connection carries 48 channels of inputs and 48 channels of outputs at the same time You decide what you want to assign to these channels Let's say you are using the DL32 to get your 32 xlr inputs and send out 16 xlr outputs And you have also a DL16 but you don't know with what you can use it You can use the inputs of the dl16 to feed the aux channels instead of using the 1/4" aux inputs on the back of the console (inputs page-> aux remap->user in 1-6->user in page-> assign user in 1-6 to AES50 33-38 or whatever number you have available) You can use the xlr outputs of the dl16 as aux outs (AES50 page-> assign AES50 17-24 to Aux1-6/M) and that way you can do hardware inserts if you want It really depends on what you want these inputs and outputs to be

[@natecombsmusic]

I could run a long ethernet and connect a second board to to my stage box, but I may have some situations coming up where a second board is right next to the main board. Based on what I've done before and see here, I think it's possible but not totally sure, can I have the main board as the master, receive inputs from the stage box via A like I already do, and then send them to the second board from the main board via the B port?

[@danielkharrat]

Yes on the main board go to the aes50 B page and assign all the outputs to be aes50 A So whatever is coming into A will come out of B

[@natecombsmusic]

@@danielkharrat Thanks! That's what I thought. About to start livestreaming some concerts since I did it so long in churches, and they happen to run M32s here.

[@tlb2732]

I respectfully disagree. Have you read the specs on your mixer? Have you ran an instrument cable for long distances without creating unacceptable noise?

[@danielkharrat]

Yeah that's exactly what i said. That it's a bad idea to run an unbalanced cable over a long distance

[@diiegopc]

20:40 all above the case

[@peterlockwood8284]

Can I go from M32c output A to DL32 input A, for all my inputs. And output B from m32c to DL32 B FOH stage box? tryin to minimize all the xlr cords

[@danielkharrat]

The dl32 syncs over the A port so if you use the B port without anything plugged into the a port in will not work So if the FOH stage box is plugged into the FOH mixer through the A port and you connect your m32c through the B port you can receive signal from it but you cannot send signal to it The mixer that is plugged to the A port of the stage box decides the outputs

[@Blowden1162]

I have the M32R and a M32c and 2 DL16's I want to have the M32c be monitor world, I have gotten inputs to work between them but cant get the M32c to control the bus/mixes! what am I missing My routing is M32R as master then AES50 to DL16 A then B to second DHL A then B out to A on the M32c

[@danielkharrat]

You can't do that the outputs on the stage box come from the mixer that is connected to the A port

[@Blowden1162]

@@danielkharrat what if the DL16 was the master!

[@danielkharrat]

@Blowden1162 doesn't matter the outputs 1-8 will always come from AES50 A setting it as master is only to make it the main source for the digital clock so that the mixer syncs to it and you can set the preamp gain from the box itself But the outputs on the stagebox will always come from AES50 A

[@mosesngatiah3314]

Question. Why is laptop receiving outputs from the consul if you already made the SB the master. Isn't it supposed to provide that?

[@danielkharrat]

The laptop isn't receiving anything it is only controlling the M32C mixer. Master means that the stagebox is generating the clock to synchronize other devices with it instead of following the clock of another device

[@athenkosimlindazwe]

Can I connect the SD8 stage box into a QSC mixer?

[@danielkharrat]

No

[@athenkosimlindazwe]

@@danielkharrat ah flip!

[@bergerle]

16:06 common misconception. The X/M32 doesn't have 32 Inputs! The full-size console is even listed as having 40 inputs (32 + 6 AUX + 2 Talkback (int + ext)), not even counting digital inputs like AES50 or X-Cards (USB, Dante etc.). The smaller versions have much less, most extreme in the "core" version. But it has 32 fully capable mix channels (Aux is also available on top, but only has EQ, no dynamics or FX). More Inputs and outputs than internal channels can make sense in some setups. E.g. you could route some inputs directly through to some otherwise unused outputs to split the signal for a dedicated IEM console (if that console doesn't support AES50). You could also send out the same signal to multiple outputs, e.g. for several active speakers/monitors. You can pass Inputs directly to the USB interface, do some software processing and pass it back into a channel (maybe even combining some inputs on the way). Just a few examples, I'm sure there is much more you could use this for.

[@raulberit]

I have 2 m32 consoles. 1 with 2 DL16 that i use it 2 or 3 times a year. And the other m32 with 1 DL 32. Also I connect thru the B ethernet to a laptop with logic pro to mix for livestream and record it … Can I enslave the 2 consoles and still use the B ethernet for logic pro?…

[@danielkharrat]

What do you mean B ethernet? Are you talking about the AES50 B port or you have a dante sound card?

[@raulberit]

@@danielkharrat AES50 B port

[@danielkharrat]

@Raul Villarreal and how are you recording? Logic needs to recognize a sound card to get inputs from The AES50 port is outside the expansion card

[@raulberit]

@@danielkharrat I use: Klark Teknik DN9630 AES50 to USB 2.0 Converter

[@raulberit]

@@danielkharrat and to send signal from computer to livestream I use: PreSonus Studio 1810c USB-C Audio Interface

[@dbfsound8269]

What a load a crock this video is, Music tribe absolutely state that Shielded cables and Ethercons ARE REQUIRED. The Ethercons protect against ESD strikes by sending the ground through the chassis. If you don't have Ethercons on your cable the strike will be sent into your AES50 port and blow it and void your warranty. CAT6 is also not meant to be used due to a higher twist rate in a cat6 cable. Yes it works but you will have issues with it. CAT5e Shielded with Ethercon ends is the ONLY cable you should be using. Your advice is completely wrong and will damage peoples equipment. Don't listen to this video! Its poor advice.

[@DustySeven7]

Exactly, was going to post a comment on this. Shieled cat5e cable with ethercon ends is the spec from Music Group, using anything else is going against that spec. Correct on wrong cable voiding warranty as well. There is a reason the mixers and stage boxes come with a yellow warning label on the AES ports now.

[@donbmf7408]

Can you explain why the Cat6 is not good for this use? Thank you

[@DustySeven7]

@@donbmf7408 AES 50 was specifically designed around cat5e cable. This includes the twist rate of the cable. Cat6 and 6a have a higher twist rate. While yes this helps with better connection and higher speeds in a IP network setup with IP traffic, it does not help with a non IP signal that is simply using Ethernet cable. Music Group themselves have told people to change cables when using cat6 cables.

[@donbmf7408]

@@DustySeven7 Thanks for that clarification, I had no idea about this!! I just thought a cat 6 cable was an update of the 5

[@pvalenti]

WARNING: Listening to this BS WILL void your Warranty!!! Behringer and Midas recommend Shielded Cat5E with Ethercon ends. The concern here is that electric spikes can blow your AES50 ports. If this happens and you are NOT using the recommended cabling...you will have voided your warranty and will have to pay to have it fixed at full price! Do yourself a favor and DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS VERY BAD ADVICE!!!

[@HubLocationSound]

☝️☝️Midas/Behringer clearly mark their AES50 ports with a bright yellow warning tag (that you have to remove to access the ports) which says “STP ONLY! Use sheilded cable with Ethercon connectors ONLY”. It’s THAT common of an occurrence.

[@DariusShannon-c2s]

Accent is to much