Alitalia Emergency Landing with Gear Problems at JFK (ATC)

On February 9th, 2011, an Alitalia Boeing 767-300, registration EI-DDW performing flight AZ643 from EWR to FCO, was climbing out of EWR when the crew reported main gear trouble.
The crew intended to divert to JFK but seeked visual confirmation from the ground that the main gear was in fact down. The jet overflew Republic airport at 1600 feet and received positive feedback, then went on to perform a missed approach at JFK's runway 22R for a final visual report from the tower. It then landed at JFK's runway 22R.
Air traffic control recordings (source: liveatc.net) are of conversations with New York Approach (ROBER sector), New York Final Approach, JFK Tower and New York Departure.
Audio: Liveatc.net
Edited by Daniel Mori - / kenadamsusa

[@mauroferronetti2347]

Hi, my name is Mauro Ferronetti and I was the captain of this flight. First of all thank you all for your comments. Even if it is obvious that most of you are not airline pilots i can tell you that during this flight i had 8 malfunctions to solve (one of which really serious) and were two really intensive hours of flight and, for really few minutes i got safe to have many more problems due to a leek of hydraulic fluid. About the low pass: policies in an airline companies are like laws which you have to respect or pay the consequences; most of those are due to safety reasons and you don't have the requirement train to perform these maneuvers. Of course, even if the flight were managed in an absolutely safe way, many things could have been made in a better way. One of the first thing you learn in your pilot life is " never judge you colleague but thanks him for learning you something". If you have more questions I would be glad to answer. Have safe landing. Mauro

[@Dom-tf3xc]

Grazie per la testimonianza comandante, è un onore avere il cpt che spiega come andassero le cose. Thanks a lot for the testimony, it is an honour to have the captain who explains how the things were going.

[@federicolazzarini_1910]

Mauro Ferronetti Complimenti vivi comandante! Un cadetto Az 👌🏻

[@nenblom]

WELL DONE!!

[@lorenzodemartini5386]

Complimenti capitano. Io per ora sono fermo al volo simulato edè molto interessante capire come funziona davvero la comunicazione soprattutto in queste situazioni.

[@alexandrelacerda75]

Great Job Captain! Your flight instructor must be very proud from what you have become!

[@jslasher1]

Excellent. I found this conversation between the AZ cockpit crew and the ATC controllers at JFK to be very professional in all respects.

[@SirLugash]

I wonder though why the pilots were not allowed by their company's policy to do a low approach for visual confirmation that the gear is down.

[@cpt1radford]

Haha I love how they were weary about doing the missed but then tower went ahead and had them go around. Smart move to make sure everything was alright.

[@mauroferronetti2347]

E' sempre un piacere condividere le esperienze.

[@ifthousayestso]

Rare to hear a non-native English speaker speak the language so well. Certainly isn't the rule. Good job, capitano.

[@danielwhitewright3109]

Very good English for the Italian captain, good video

[@jslasher1]

That is a very patronising statement.

[@jerrypezzullo1]

jslasher1 u

[@alextazzina]

To all of you at NY ATC....I happened to fly the same 767(DW) to JFK the other day (.... everything went fine..3 green lights..full stop :-) ).Robert (NY APP) took us in..I just want to confirm what others have already written..You did a great job as always.Professionalism is indeed a great value.I'll talk to you pretty soon on Tac freq.Take care. Hi Bob,enjoy your Italian vacation.

[@AndreMorri]

Incredible job!!!, This is what i call team work.

[@federico3086]

It all comes down to some really smart interaction beetwen Atc and Crew: The policy has its own reasons and anyone questioning them should get a few flight lessons before talking. The pilots clearly stated the problem and Atc was smart enough to take the proper actions needed. That's all

[@GIANFRANCOROMA]

Bravi. Complimenti ai piloti italiani e al personale di terra. Siete stati molto bravi a gestire tutta la situazione. Gianfranco

[@otef434]

Great job by Alitalia crew and ATC. All Pro's!

[@phillgood1812]

Complimenti Capitano, e non ve ne sarebbe bisogno visto che le capacità e le competenze professionali in Alitalia sono sempre espresse ai massimi livelli, come in questo caso. The last, but not the least... Trovo Il Suo modo di esprimersi e la pronuncia inglese assolutamente fantastici!

[@richl]

fascinating, you can see the value of everyone speaking the same language world wide.

[@spreadablewonder6357]

You don't execute a low pass on the runway with a full loaded 767. Executing a missed approach allowed those who were checking to do it better, since (1) the aircraft could come at a lower speed before waving up again and (2) once the missed approach is executed any observer on the ground gets a better sight of the airplane's belly. This policy isn't wrong at all. A low pass wasn't necessary at all, and a missed approach or "go around" isn't even an half scary as a low pass is for a passenger.

[@AntonioBarzotto]

Che controllori professionali e capaci! Straordinariamente Proattivi e collaborativi... Sulle scelte dei piloti non mi pronuncio, anche se, io, di notte, per un problema al carrello, il lob pass l'avrei fatto. I controllori gli hanno reso le cose assai più semplici con quella ottima chiamata di GO AROUND. Bravi, bravi, bravi.

[@radiohotelove]

incredibile ... bravissimi i piloti az

[@Henoik]

I have never heard about "super heavy" before, however, I have heard about "super mid" before. Turbo props -> Very light -> Light -> Mid -> Super Mid -> Heavy.

[@iosonogio]

awesome job

[@willyminor]

Really interesting, thank you very much!

[@oneofthemdeals]

awesome job i caught the last few minutes to tower.. the 'newbie' tower control folks got some good experience... this is omen that alitialia is slowing walking away from BA and rolling out Airbus planes.. the 777s appears to be the only BA model while AZ will be the launch customer for the A350 and took deliveries for their A330 and A319/320s

[@statenisland5743]

Wow i can't ever become a pilot looks to hard. Funny that when they comunicate with each other they dont take short cuts when speaking. They repeat the same things 👍👍👍great job captain

[@gooeycake1]

great job NY Tracon!

[@binibibo]

well done!

[@recacon3]

All ATC was invited to a wonderful sunday lunch at Little Italy, with spaghetti on a all-you-can-eat basis. Perche siamo tutti buona gente!

[@mosesandthe7dwarves]

For some reason, the company might consider this procedure to be a discomfort to passengers and might also consider the fact that, if it is allowed, it might be put into practice a bit too often...who knows!

[@PlanTonto]

This reminds me of the Eastern that crashed in the Florida Everglades in 1972. They were flying a brand new L1011 and the landing gear light didn't work so they didn't know if the gear was actually down. While trying to troubleshoot, investigators think a cockpit crew bumped and disengaged the autopilot and plane was descending they didn't realize it, they were still trying to figure out if gear was down and it hit the everglades...Sad story but quite a few survivors, They even have web page

[@mauroferronetti2347]

That was my first thing i thought when i had the red light on retracting the landing gear.

[@federicomoggia4626]

I thought it too! Similar landing gear light issue...

[@montervlogs]

Skill Pilots!

[@Wexicanful]

Why is the woman speaking so fast to a person who's first language isn't English ?

[@iTube22100]

Because she is stupid, glad you got it

[@LjL-Videos]

Because the pilot seems to have a decent enough grasp of English, as far as I can tell, and for that matter, English is required knowledge for pilots.

[@galaxya7091]

She's a f* b*

[@PlanTonto]

cool, thanks...Yeah I knew there were other aircraft designated as heavy, just couldn't remember them all! I thought the A380 and 747 were fairly comparable? Anyway, thanks!

[@PlanTonto]

They have to say heavy just like the pilots have to start and end each communication with their call sign like The Alitalia 3360...He has to start by saying Alitalia 3360 heavy and end with it, it is just a fail safe reminder to the tower that "Heavy" means a jumbo jet and will require a lengthy runway for take off as well as arrival will need a long runway..On departure, when a heavy takes off, it creates so much wake, that they don't wan to send a Piper right after a heavy in the same path

[@willyminor]

I'm sorry for my ignorance, but... what does "heavy" mean in this situation?

[@JAMP74]

loving italian accent haha! good job.

[@alextazzina]

@marcotiloca Non capisco se sei del mestiere,allora il commento voleva essere ironico, oppure no.Volo sul 767 e sono amico e collega di chi hai ascoltato.Non avendo indicazioni della reale posizione del main gear ,non potendo essere certi della completa estensione hanno fatto tutto cio che era possibile per portare a termine il volo nella massima sicurezza possibile,nel rispetto delle procedure,ed atterrare sapendo cosa aspettarsi.Professionalità,esperienza,hanno un valore.

[@MrCrystalcranium]

This had the potential to be a disaster but the tower and Captain worked it out well even though there was enough of a language barrier to make the conversation difficult. The Captain's reference to a "yellow car" with a "flashlight" was particularly disturbing. I first envisioned a NYC cabbie with a Maglight at the end of the runway!

[@brch2]

He wasn't saying there was a yellow car, he was asking about the possibility of them sending "a yellow car with a flashlight" to some point before the runway to see if they could see the gears on approach. Since some Italian airports have airport "follow" vehicles that are mostly yellow, then presumably he was asking them to send an airport vehicle with a flashlight to a point under the approach (not realizing "yellow car" was "lost in translation" since Tower didn't know what he was talking about).

[@MarioCavicchi]

Credo che quando hanno detto al pilota di fare un passaggio basso gli abbiamo brillato gli occhi ... ;-)

[@nberedim]

I don't undestand. Did he say they are prohibited by company policy to execute a fly over the runway for the tower to confirm their landing was down? !!!!

[@minitrundle]

Haha, ATC 'When you went around past the tower your nose wheel went up but the main gear stayed down'' AZ643 ''Understood, Okay, Very good, very good'' Doesn't sound too good to me? :L

[@user-tx9ys8cn6x]

Rofl !

[@PlanTonto]

It is my understanding that Heavies are the jumbo jets, 757, 767, 747, 777 A340 A380 Never heard of super, may be wrong...Oh, The L1011 were heavies too, but I don't think there are any of those flyiing, IDK...

[@ZanderMckael]

Great english by the Italians!

[@CapibaraHD]

Can someone explain to me what the Alitalia pilot is referring to in terms of being 'against policy'?

[@brendanstanton7079]

Its against their airlines policy.

[@CapibaraHD]

Right, but what exactly? A low pass to show the tower the undercarriage.

[@brendanstanton7079]

CapibaraHD low approach

[@Dwade33-r3c]

Alitalia's Standard Operating Procedure doesn't allow the pilots to execute a low approach

[@TheNYgolfer]

Kudos to ATC for ordering the aircraft to go around thereby bypassing the idiotic Alitalia policy prohibiting a flyby. After doing a missed approach why would they retract the gears? Republic airport confirmed the "gears appear down", Why would they then retract the gear(s) and risk a worse problem on the subsequent lowering of the gear(s)? Crew seemed very happy that main gears stayed down but nose gear retracted on go around.Somekind of troubleshooting check??

[@luftair]

And ATControllers...even when the problem seemed to be solved, JFK twr kept his attention on his gear!

[@19400501]

@madmail1 I agree with you. Honestly I can't understand the reason of the Company's policy. In facts the ATC by-passed the problem, but we can also presume that they tried to conduct a sort of additional visual check on the nose gear! @alextazzina C'è una disposizione della tua Compagnia di evitare miss-approach? A quale fine? Praticamente il tuo collega se l'è fatta mettere in quel posto dall'ATC che alla fine gli ha fatto fare quello che voleva lui!

[@TheBEAGLEPACK]

What's the difference between a low pass and a missed approach?

[@mattiafioravanti8475]

On a low pass, you just fly over the runway at a set height. The missed approach is different: you're planning to land, but at a certain point you realize you don't have the appropriate conditions (either external or on your airplane) to land, so you go full throttle and you perform a missed approach (you fly back up)

[@E787Z]

I’m wondering why they aren’t allowed to do a low approach? But good job 👏🏻.

[@mmkuyt]

same here, and moreover, if tower orders a flyby, the captain has to obey, regardless of any company policy, right?

[@iTube22100]

Does anybody knows why they say AZ643 "heavy", what does it mean ? Thanks

[@ETMiklu]

iTube22100 All large and "heavy" aircraft like 777, A350 etc. are referred as "heavy" after callsign

[@iTube22100]

MikluProductions Thank you

[@falcon664]

"Heavy" is an official designation that refers to a plane that produces a great deal of wake turbulence behind it. This can be very dangerous for planes that follow too closely. The controllers provide extra space between heavies and following flights. Generally, heavies are larger aircraft, but specific models carry the designation after their flight numbers. "Super" refers to the A380 which produces wake turbulence substantially higher than the heavies.

[@enricoalvisi2137]

Heavy is used for aircraft that weight more than 136000kg

[@Tomskii5]

Weird policy of Alitalia I have to say though..

[@mmkuyt]

One problem i notice here is that Kennedy ATC people speak english rapidly and colloquially, like native speakers, and that they have little consideration for pilots that are not as fluent in English. I think a new policy is needed here.

[@mxp26]

@marcotiloca Marco nn volevo offenderti! è un dato di fatto,se nn si è nella cabina certe cose nn si possono capire. Quindi nn prendertela in modo personale. Ciao

[@TheC17A]

so Newark not JFK..... ?

[@scallawagon713]

Geez

[@lvsluggo007]

Jesus Christ.. That is one stupid policy to disallow a low approach when you're trying to verify if your damn landing gear is down or not.. Thats the kind of policy that leads to fucking accidents.... I think I'd stay the hell away from Alitalia...

[@richl]

Why say heavy every time ?

[@jessicapope6977]

It has to do with the size of the aircraft. They’re the normal size, heavy size and Super on aircraft sizes.

[@mxp26]

@marcotiloca MA CHE COMMENTO E' SI VEDE CHE NN SEI UN PILOTA!!!! HANNO FATTO BENISSIMO A FARE QUALLO CHE HANNO FATTO! DI AI TUOI ISTRUTTORI ALLA SKYMATES DI INSEGNARTI QUESTE COSE!

[@PlanTonto]

The Alitalia pilot sounds like Father Guido Sarducci LOL

[@LjL-Videos]

No matter how decently an Italian speaks English, someone is going to go all lololol with the stereotypes, is that right?

[@arixtos]

Wow, how can these pilots pretend that the gear has to be seen by the guys in the tower at night and most probably from a very considerable distance before landing? If you are worried about the gear and you have this crazy policy that doesn't allow you to make a low approach, then declare an emergency and overfly the runway to get the gear checked. Just curious about the decision they would have made if the controller would have not suggested to perform a go around to bypass this crazy policy.

[@jmizeski]

I've listened to alot of air traffic. That one did not sound very good on either end.

[@dragonsknights]

Io con Alitalia preferisco non volare. Vergognoso che impediscano ai piloti un passaggio basso per verificare l'estensione del carrello e questi debbano chiedere alla torre di vederli da lontano e al buio!!!It is a shame that Alitalia policy forbids a low passage to check if the gear is down. I don't fly Alitalia!!!

[@user-tx9ys8cn6x]

English was terrible ! Both grammar and pronunciation ! And the ATC could have spoken a little bit slower to help them out. That aside, good job on pilot to stay calm and get everything they were saying and deal with the malfunctions !

[@Bitrey]

...no