Russian Pilots Denied Entry to Canada | ATC vs Pilots

[@pezpengy9308]

this brings to mind a story i heard about a pilot flying into berlin, and the atc was getting a bit flustered at the pilot and sarcastically asked, "sir - havent you ever flown in to berlin before?!?!?" and the pilot responded, "yes, but that last time i was flying a bomber." it was shortly after ww2.

[@agp11001]

I know that story in a somewhat different version, it was a Brit pilot, and his answer was "Yes, many times, but it was dark every time, and I never tried to land."

[@reneemcgee9623]

Smart answer's..

[@JamesThomas-zl9er]

@@agp11001 wasn’t it Hamburg?

[@minhafamilianaamerica2305]

Interesting...

[@billpugh1597]

@@JamesThomas-zl9er Frankfurt from the version I have. Either way, not Berlin.

[@rilmar2137]

I remember listening to a situation where the Polish ATC told the pilots of one airline they weren't allowed to enter Polish airspace - the reason being, the airline was behind with paying the fee so Poland wouldn't allow them use its airspace until they were up to date with payments. They were forced to turn around

[@jvaneck8991]

He was at a conference in Greece. Should have taken the train home.

[@74gear]

I have heard of pilots having the same problem but taking off from an airport, that would make me a bit more concerned.

[@Geflechtmeister]

It was a flight from Basel to Kraków. That plane flew back to Basel.

[@Tomson419]

@@74gear yea, especially in poland for the last week there was a dispute between ATCs union and their employer, and controllers were on strike and like 90% of flights going in and out of poland were delayed by at least 30 minutes. also a decrete was signed stipulating only most important flights were going to be completed, and for 3 days biggest polish airport was open only until 5:30 pm

[@maciejruka8782]

@Thimson419 There was NO ATC strike in Poland. ATC didn't agree with amended terms of contracts of employment. Legally it means they were all given termination notice unless they accept new conditions. After 2-3 month notice period ATC CoE were simply over as of 30.04.2022. No one went on strike. Simply not very wise handling of the negotiations by ATC management offering new conditions or termination. Especially considering requirements for ATC position. BTW ATC management has been changed.

[@kenarsenault4928]

ATC here, I worked in Gander for 11 years, great video and explanation. I work in Moncton now for the last 17 years. This bring back memories of Gander, giving oceanic clearances and knowing how busy we would be each day based on where the tracks were.

[@mtr.t]

A fellow monctonian howdy

[@nikpinet2745]

Moncton here! Came to the comment section to see if any checked in

[@mikaelacash3791]

Did you work ATC there during 9/11? Sorry, I just have to ask. I've heard so much about what happened in Gander, saw the radars of all the planes diverting at the same time, and have massive respect for any ATC who was working there on that day. Directing that many planes on that short notice must have been insane for any of the ATC working that day.

[@aaronharvey6992]

As a dispatcher for Kalitta Air, this has happened to me several times, including times when we had the proper permits and then they were cancelled at the last minute. China seems to be the ones that did this to us. Life as a dispatcher can be a lot of fun, like the time an aircraft I was dispatching departed from ORD and one of the engines decided it didn't want to be with the aircraft any longer and dropped into Lake Michigan. Thank you for making these videos.

[@chargehanger]

That's probably the true meaning of the expression "The engine just quit!"

[@reznovvazileski3193]

Well crap good thing it was thirsty then, if it was hungry it might've landed in New York for a piece of steak instead.

[@GoCoyote]

You have a similar sense of humor to Kelsey, LOL

[@keithfreitas2983]

Yea, had that happen to me to in my Aviation Dispatcher career. Even worse when its a passenger flight. Volcanos are the worse. Had 6 flights airborne, on approach or ready to takeoff in the area when Mount St. Helens blew up.

[@bankerdave888]

Dictatorships get to dictate whatever they want! 🤣🤣🤣

[@Guranmaster]

Hello, I have 32 years as a commercial pilot. A few years as a training captain L1011 and line captain the last 16 years for Easyjet ORY. I really enjoy your YT. I remember the old captains exchanging overfly permits numbers as it was collection cards. One could say: I fly to India tomorrow do you have a number. One captain or FE would give him a overflight number from his notebook in exchange for another permit. It took some times for the ATC to check the numbers and if it was a used one they called back and the captain did say; sorry my mistake and gave them another. Before the ATC have had a chance to verify we left their airspace. It worked for years and we save a great amount of fuel. until they started to visually ident the aircraft with military fighters.

[@vigi86]

Haha, scetchy business with overfly permits 😂

[@Hippiemanthc]

The L1011 is one of my favourite airplanes.

[@cbufffly]

I was a flight dispatcher for CALAC's Executive Flight Ops for a couple of years and boots on the ground is very accurate description lol. Once in a while was a flight attendant/or engineer on the G3. Never a boring second!

[@alanpastreck2303]

Thanks for mentioning the dispatchers, and especially thanks for mentioning we have multiple flights at any given time, and may need the crew to give us a heads up of their current situation. The hardest part of this job is task prioritization when all sorts of things are going on at the same time for multiple flights. No matter how busy I may be, an incoming message from an airborne flight will always get my immediate attention.

[@DeirdreMcNamara]

You guys are AMAZING! Under appreciated I think. Commercial aviation wouldn't exist without you...

[@somebuddy8702]

I think what they were actually reffering to the fact that PORTI is inside Ganders Domestic Airspace. So I think they were concerned that they could violate NOTAM R when they choose PORTI as their entry point. I could be wrong though.

[@VisibilityFoggy]

I believe this incident occurred during the 24-48 hour period where Canada had closed its airspace to Russia but the U.S. had not done so yet.

[@juliebrown422]

@@VisibilityFoggyThank You for the Clarification. so this plane probably diverted to the US somewhere then since Canada wasn't open? Question: Is there any international law in General or Commercial Aviation stating that it is illegal to not Render Aid to any Aircraft experiencing an Emergency???

[@dougerrohmer]

@@juliebrown422 Probably, but I'm sure they will let him divert and land, but then he won't get clearance to take off again which is what it says in the NOTAM R - can't land, take off or cross over our territory.

[@cosmicHalArizona]

You could be right. No idea what your acronyms are.

[@juliebrown422]

@@dougerrohmer so he would probably be able to divert and land, but wouldn't be able to legally take off and leave the country until the ban is lifted right?

[@Brooke52528]

Wow I've learnt SO much in 16 minutes. Thanks Kelsey. Regards from the UK 🇬🇧

[@comcastjohn]

Dang! I didn’t know that there was SO much involved with flying commercial aircraft! I always learn so much from your channel, thanks so much!

[@mikeneely6190]

states can (or used to) have restrictions. When I lived in Wichita, Kansas (1970's-1980's), one flight when we were flying into Kansas the pilot came on and said that it was time to lock up the alcohol (Kansas was a dry state and no alcohol was allowed). He also made a comment about re-entering the 19th century

[@kristensorensen2219]

Crazy days in Wichita!! Was a Cessna ferry pilot late 70s. ERAU 80 CFIA&I ret.

[@virginiatyree6705]

That's pretty wild. I remember the first time I went into a grocery store in a dry-state & saw the alcohol tapped off on a Sunday. v

[@89128]

When I was with US Customs 30 years ago, the Chicago Customs Office and United Airlines would go round and round on amount of tax paid for alcohol served while over the US. Once out of US airspace no tax. United kept sending reports showing little alcohol served on international flights until out of US airspace. Director of Customs smelled a rat and would audit United's records. Left Customs before issue was resolved. Those little 75 ML bottles really caused a dust up.

[@pjaypender1009]

Do you mean the 20th century? The last year of the 19th century was 1899, and prohibition ran from 1920 to 1933. Prohibition was both begun and ended in the 20th century.

[@pjaypender1009]

@@virginiatyree6705 dry means no alcohol at all. It's not "taped off" at any time, it's never sold.

[@YanBrassard]

As a Canadian, I am wondering after watching this video why there was no 24 hours notice before the travel ban took effect. It would prevent a headache for pilots…

[@Xoiskin1969X]

and why would u reduce headache for orcpilots?

[@pixelpatter01]

@@Xoiskin1969X Because Canadians and American politicians in power ATM are acting like Karens.

[@luizas2345]

I thought the same, passengers safety first, then politics.

[@mrmelon54]

I recon just says "any currently flying russian airlines are allowed to land at their closest airport (even inside canada) and then are banned and new flight plans aren't allowed to take off" so there is no headache

[@Xoiskin1969X]

@@luizas2345 except the passengers are orcs...

[@jxyjayjxy]

Really interesting Kelsey! You’re such a great teacher. So many things we non-pilots wouldn’t even be thinking about when just always doing the passenger thing.

[@parnamsaini4751]

Most welcome.

[@josem.soncini3622]

good teacher but the grammar, it hould have gone not should have went.

[@jeffdo9195]

Thanks for recognizing Dispatchers on this Video. Unsung hero's in the back ground - I'm a retired dispatcher from a major airline

[@alabama1413]

What a detailed & excellent explanation of this situation. We forget just how much information is flooding the airwaves with protocols etc. Much appreciated Kelsey 👍

[@HelenaMikas]

How true and unfortunate for everyday decent folks .

[@TarikDaniel]

Keeping the whole turmoil into account, it's comforting to see how professional this has been managed here. Yes, they are trained for it, but still great how level headed everyone was.

[@olivierbeltrami]

It helps that the ATC was a polite Canadian.

[@truthsRsung]

That's a load of it. Sending a commercial flight into the Arctic circle FOR NO NATURAL REASON is hardly professional. Endangering innocent souls, men, or missions, however you want to perceive a flight, by others who want to wage WAR, is Childish.

[@truthsRsung]

@@olivierbeltrami ...That was obviously embarrassed by their leaders' decisions to create NOTAM R and prevent them from truly being courteous. How does this story AVOID the fact that the plane was taking OFF from the US? This guy writes the title like Canadian airspace makes ANY difference in this flight. It is the European airspace that is RESTRICTED, yet he concentrates his effort on these dispatches.

[@lescobrandon8045]

What other way can it be handled. Threaten a plane full of Russians, they may shoot one of your jet liners down at a later date. I swear the West is pathetic, well our leaders are pathetic, but we're OK.

[@lescobrandon8045]

@@truthsRsung I don't really see the difference between Trudeau and Putin anyhow, they're both fascist dictators.

[@rbeard7580]

I retired before CPDLC was in all our aircraft, and my older fleet was never upgraded (to my knowledge). However, we did have a digital means of communication which was similar. We could use it in emergencies, total loss of comm (including relay by other aircraft) and for certain very limited functions. For example, we could receive our oceanic clearance digitally. However, we still had to contact center by voice and read the entire thing to them, and get a verbal acknowledgement. We could NOT do most other things, like position reports, altitude changes, etc. We went all over the world, and used that digital comm on every flight for all sorts of routine things, usually with our Dispatch. But not for ATC, barring the limited uses I just described.

[@oldmech619]

CPDLC will some day be upgraded to controlling airspeed for spacing and TOD throttle back, with route and V/Nav planned into the Nav system. ATC computers will be doing all the work. We soon will be just the observer. Dam finger is getting sore.

[@frederichore1890]

Flying with my late Dad who flew a two-seater Vans Aircraft RV6 turboprop kit plane he built (he was an aerospace engineer with Spar Aerospace and the project manager for the Canadarm), I would hear the chatter he had with ATC in Montreal on a headset I wore. He never explained all the abbreviations and nomenclature so your explanations here really open my eyes err... ears to all the nuances between pilots and ATC. Enjoy your channel - keep up the great work! Cheers and thanks! Frederic in Montréal :-)

[@ironlionzion1380]

Last year following the interception and forced landing of the Ryanair flight in Belarus I remember seeing in flightradar24 a Belavia flight doing circles in the air near the Polish border. Turns out they were notified there and then that Europe closed its airspace for all Belarusian flights as a response for that act of piracy. The flight eventually had to land back in Minsk.

[@LisaMaryification]

Coincidentally, the president of Belarus said authorities offered him 1 billion to lock down his country. He said no and these were obviously the consequences.

[@revertrevertz5438]

The guy the arrested was somewhat involved with the famous Ukrainian batallion

[@TheNixie1972]

@@revertrevertz5438 that guy was Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend Sofia Sapega. Roman is a journalist, critical of Putin. The Russian regime forced the Belarus government to make up a threat to force the plane down and then arrest this specific person. It was a blatant kidnapping and as usual Putin got away with it.

[@revertrevertz5438]

@@TheNixie1972 do you know what said journalist was doing in Ukraine?

[@WinginWolf]

They could have kept flying until they crossed the border where Polish fighter jets would be waiting to shoot down any breach of sovereignty by Belarus… but that would’ve been very very risky.

[@sebastiangeorger5791]

It's always a good day when Kelsey uploads

[@Murphy5-5]

I love, that the canadian ATC still looked out for the pilots instead of just say "f* off" and closing the connection.

[@jk9876]

not like American, we are not Aholes.

[@ominous-omnipresent-they]

@@jk9876 There are definitely assholes in Canada; they're just not as prevalent as they are here in the USA.

[@jetblackjoy]

...and proving the Russian government right.

[@kitchenerleslie6177]

@@jetblackjoy the Russian government is a joke.

[@corilemky4247]

Canadian policy is bad . Written by a wanna be dictator . One that can't control his base nature

[@LadyAdakStillStands]

I'd heard of "air rights" regarding building skyscrapers and "airspace rights" for territorial flyovers. I'd never heard of "airspace flyover fees"!! That leaves a mark on a ticket price I'd never considered.

[@StySiddhi]

In 2019 Pakistan forbade flying over its airspace, further to India's action against terrorists camp in Pakistan (Balakot). After a while Pakistanis realized they were losing several hundreds of millions US$ in overflight fees, a lot for a cash trapped country. So they lifted the ban very quickly to get paid again. After the counter sanctions of Russia banning Western aircrafts from its airspace, it is said that Russia was earning + US$ 800 million from these overflight fees. Companies pay several thousand of US$ for some overflightfees !

[@jaycee330]

And, ironically here, Russia has some ofthe most expensive fliyover fees, so if you look at Europe to Asia flights, you will see that they avoid the airspace entirely.

[@AlwaysASolution-qj9be]

Love your channel and information!🙏 I've traveled internationally for years and it's quite enlightening to learn what transpires behind the scenes.😊

[@marcd1981]

Thank you for the video, Kelsey. This is the first airline related channel I've watched in about 2 1/2 years. That's how long ago I retired early from one of our major carriers, and I stepped away from the industry. I saw a comment about how many times you showed the CPDLC messages before finishing the point. I was an instructor for two major aerospace corporations and I know if anyone has taught professionally, there is a method they use that ensures their students will remember the lesson.

[@joshjacobs3906]

Another cool, informative video. I had no idea I would be so interested in commercial aviation 👍✈

[@since1876]

9:14 fun fact: this is a real photograph. Kelsey actually hopped out, midflight, to snap this picture before returning to the pit to finish out the flight. Man has balls.

[@suegardner]

We have a beautiful and iconic plane in our family history too. Dad flew the Vulcan, and he was involved in the Black Buck runs during the Falklands conflict. They got into difficulties and had to land in Rio. Dad had to open the escape hatch at 43,000 and throw out all their paperwork into the sea. Apparently they landed with no fuel to spare! I wasn't aware of all this excitement at the time as I was so little. I remember him coming home with a beard and a suntan though!

[@Anna_Xor]

Wow! I'm glad you dad made it. So many great stories out there.

[@MaQuGo119]

I think you meant to say Malvinas.

[@larsbomba4372]

opening a hatch at 43.000 i dont think so

[@purcitron]

@@larsbomba4372 it's well documented

[@purcitron]

your father? amazing! i've read the Black Buck - Rio de Janeiro story. it's absolutely wild

[@SteffiReitsch]

In a situation like this with a foreign plane, the controllers need to speak in a slow, clear voice, not the usual rapid- fire blathering which sounds like jibberish to a non-native english speaker.

[@MrCookieCat]

Kelsey's go-to explanation for a complicated avionics system: "Its like Tinder." 😂🤣

[@StortWeldingCoLLC]

James Fields, WELL GAVE THAT AWAY,,,, EASY!!!!!🤣🤣🤣

[@74gear]

stick with what you know right? haha

[@StortWeldingCoLLC]

@@74gear ALWAYS DO KELSEY!!!!! LOOK FORWARD TO SUNDAY!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!

[@penvzila]

I was a passenger on a flight from China to Europe that had to make an emergency landing in Moscow. I was one of a few US citizens on board. The negotiated it so they can refuel and nobody had to deboard because if we had gotten off the plane we would have been in Russia without a Visa. The pilot actually used the word negotiate when he let us know over the PA. Apparently the stop was caused by an unusually long low altitude circling that we had to do in Chongqing that was mandated by Chinese ATC that was not planned for by the airline. The flight crew was very nervous, I really don't think they had any plans of landing in Russia beyond an emergency.

[@user-se7wf9dv6r]

This is so fascinating. I have nothing to with airplanes or the airline industry but like many people I find it utterly captivating. And this video was one of the best!

[@creist11]

0:42 very attentive how the plane moves over Swiss airspace and the bill is displayed in CHF. Not usual, normally we are not even perceived on maps as a small dot in the center of Europe. This makes me happy as a Swiss. Yeah, we are noticed! Of course we also accept other currencies, as well as Master Card, Visa, American Express, TWINT...

[@cajuntimes]

Even though I am out of the loop here, I perceive the ultra professionalism hilarity

[@StySiddhi]

👍😂🤣 ! Geneva (GVA) is an important airtraffic control knot in Europe.

[@leegalen8383]

Ha ha!😁

[@HenryLoenwind]

...gold, jewellery, paintings, black briefcases, ...

[@phillymathguy8142]

A WEALTH of information about what's going on behind the scenes during international flights. Thank you, Kelsey.

[@debrabaker1009]

Again you said something that helped me understand my personal situation. As a little girl 13 years old my brother flew a non-scheduled airline I really didn’t understand what that meant now I do thank you very much he flew for World Airways and it was mostly military personnel he died when I was 13 his plane crashed in Guam He was the flight engineer. I never got to understand exactly what nonscheduled versus scheduled was thank you Kelsey you are very Helpful for me with these videos

[@gailpeterson3747]

Oh my, so very sorry for your loss. Was this the mixed civilian/military flight that crashed into the mountain just after take off? My sincerest condolences to you and your family.

[@BobbyGeneric145]

Debra, sorry to hear that. Rest assured that, while he lived, your brother had some amazing adventures flying for World!

[@UtahForLife]

So sorry for your loss I hope he had a fun time flying for world how did the plane crash?

[@Stew2130]

So sorry, Debra. I've flown with World as a passenger many times and always appreciated them.

[@rockchildofthe60s69]

Aww I'm so sorry for what happened to your brother. Seldom do you go through life and meet someone who has lost a loved one in a plane crash and be it 10 minutes ago or 10, 30 years ago it's always sad hearing about victims of a crash. I was in grade school in the 70s and a classmates parents were killed in a plane crash. It totally changed the lives of everyone in the community because those deaths are so rare. I'm just so sorry for your pain and loss. Thank you for sharing about your brother.

[@hollysaylor2292]

Sunday morning, having coffee and waiting for a new video from Kelsey to drop.

[@mikeyrussell2311]

I was on that flight. I remember it very clearly when we crossed into Canadian airspace because I got a text message welcoming me into Canadian airspace. And then when I got to Moscow Russia, 13 hours later and woke up the next day, my friend showed me an article from business insider that we violated Canadian airspace I could not believe my eyes.

[@MrKaStep]

It looks to me that the re-routed portion wasn't necessarily the one that went across the tracks, but rather the one going to PORTI. I've flown New York - Moscow and back a couple of times before the war, and we still went all the way along the coast of Greenland, over Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland, as that seems to be the shortest route. The part that changed for the flights you are covering appear to be the fact that they were not allowed into Canadian airspace and had to go west for a long time before they could switch back to the normal northerly direction.

[@Curt_Sampson]

Yeah, I just checked in Google Earth and the great circle route for NY-Moscow crosses over New Brunswick, Quebec and Newfoundland-Labrador, touches the southern tip of Greenland, then crosses Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland. (It turns out that Google Maps does not show great circle routes, BTW.) So they wouldn't have been flying the North Atlantic Tracks anyway, though it sounds as if they were flying first to PORTI regardless, and thus not passing over Canada anyway. (Aeroflot 111 is, or was, a Miami-Moscow flight.) Which explains why they would have enough fuel; this was not a major diversion for them.

[@fToo]

Yes indeed. I think Aeroflot was already banned from European airspace when this incident occurred - so they had presumably already planned to fly north of Norway. As you say it was just the route to get to PORTI that changed suddenly when Canada closed.

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

Has USA done the same thing?

[@TheSjuris]

@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 yes

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

@@TheSjuris Definitely the long way around!

[@hsbvt]

NOTAMS are no joke! I've heard pilots talk about a NOTAM taking effect mid-flight and they had to scramble to come up with alternative plans. But they never questioned it. "Okay, let's fix this quick". Have a great week everyone!

[@FilosophicalPharmer]

No NOTAMs is a No-no!

[@salvatoreshiggerino6810]

NOTAMs are a joke now that wokies got to it.

[@Dirk-van-den-Berg]

So this NOTAM R was probably issued midflight? The flightpattern shows the flight went over Finnish and Danish airspace.

[@CarrieJamrogowicz]

@@Dirk-van-den-Berg no, the pilots lied and said it was a “humanitarian” flight.

[@FilosophicalPharmer]

@@Dirk-van-den-Berg How else were they going to Finnish their flight?

[@dallasgrant]

That's something I never would have thought of, flying over countries and having to pay to do so, really cool to learn so new stuff today, thanks.

[@brianball6670]

There is a Volga Dnepr AN-124 parked at Toronto Pearson that just happened to be there when our airspace was closed to Russian aircraft. Last I saw, it was right next to HWY 427. I have photos from better times of both an AN-124 & the AN-225.

[@tntfreddan3138]

Never seen any Antonovs, but I've had a few planes land at Landvetter, outside Gothenburg, Sweden, when I was driving on the highway (RV40) that passes close to the airport. When 24 meters long and 4.5 meters high, you can sometimes feel the wind from the planes, especially when empty and only weighing 25 tons. The planes pass over the highway to land at the airport.

[@ryanf1425]

I’ll have to check that out next time I’m through

[@thelettuceconsumer]

In all honestly, I hope it’s seized and given to Ukraine as damages

[@yf.f4919]

@@thelettuceconsumer That doesn't make sense. You can't blame everybody and seize like a madman.

[@gkarenko9593]

@@yf.f4919 Putin can. Oh, right...

[@Robinallenyukon]

In Toronto Canada at Pearson international Airport the Russian Antonov 124 owned by Volga Dnepr Airlines has been parked since February 27, 2022 ... parking fee is $1065.60 per day .... that's $973,958.40CA to date lol

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

Aeroflot: I've been banned from EU airspace Air Koryo: ...that's rough, buddy We've been banned since 2017 (originally banned in 2006 but resumed in 2010 until banned again), they're just jealous our Tupolevs and Ilyushins still work like a charm. Such a shame because our network used to be much bigger when Eastern Europe was socialist

[@robbwatson2088]

My first time watching your channel. Very informative, and we'll presented. Learned alot in a very few minutes. Cheers.

[@jss27560]

I knew you need permission to overfly country's airspace I didn't know you had to pay for it

[@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus]

Paying for overflight covers the costs of wages for personnel and infrastructure required on the ground to ensure the safe passage and navigation of the flight. This would include controllers, radios, radar, navaids, plus the housing, maintenance and administration of all these things.

[@robertheinkel6225]

That was new to me also.

[@mikoto7693]

Likewise I knew permission was needed but not that they need to pay. I wasn’t surprised though, given how human civilisation has become so pathetically obsessed with money.

[@74gear]

everybody wants their cut of the pie! haha

[@krozareq]

@@74gear All negated when their flights go over other airspaces. Oh wait... the passengers/consignees ultimately pay for that :D

[@HRtwinsmommy]

Thanks for your detailed explanations on these scenarios. Super interesting to hear all these moving parts!

[@Kooooyooooy]

yes, another video! Finally Kelsey! Always seems too long between them!

[@duditon1]

Same!! Comes with the territory of super popular channels, you get hooked and then days or weeks between uploads feel like years 😂

[@FilosophicalPharmer]

At this rate, he'll never get a mention in KZbin creator's Second Video ever uploaded! Jeez, Kelsey!

[@Kooooyooooy]

@@duditon1 yess i agree!

[@jerrynoble6585]

Thanks for the details. It’s great to understand. There is actually a seized Antonov sitting at the Toronto airport. It landed then Canada implemented the new rules. The plane couldn’t depart. It may have now but it was there for quite some time and may well still be.

[@stephenjones8928]

Its still there as of May 2, 2022.

[@thecaynuck4694]

Sometimes I feel like the rules have gone too far against Russians. Like, Putin doesn't give a shit about Russian aircraft in Canada. Even if his people complain about it, he won't stop waging war against Ukraine. Only people this hurts is innocent Russians and Russia isn't democratic, it's not like the citizens can urge Putin to stop. They face jailtime if they try that.

[@shiningstar2903]

@@thecaynuck4694 Putin 'doesn't care'...yet. He can make one phone call to seize plans and detain everyone onboard indefinitely.

[@ivoivanov7407]

Well, the one aim of this restriction is to seize the russian aircrafts, as sanction to russian invasion in Ukraine. So, the goal is achieved in this case.

[@ivoivanov7407]

@@thecaynuck4694 the plane belongs to someone close to Putin. Everyone close to Putin is not innocent!

[@yzwariij]

I love how you explain things and I love your humour! This was a great watch. Thank you!

[@skipgetelman3418]

As a 777 retired captain I’m glad I didn’t have to deal with that crap

[@robinstevens9189]

That is one finely pressed shirt today Kelsey. Well played Sir!

[@tennyk7]

Hi Kelsey!! This was informative. Congratulations for reaching 1 M.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 (The lady’s voice was the clearest -to me.)😊

[@nuwberger]

Great video, it really is interesting how ATC communicates. I never really liked planes before you made this content.

[@d-sx560]

Back in the day, across the Middle East, it was insanely complex routing around the problem airspace of the week…

[@cosmicHalArizona]

God bless middle eastern countries people

[@sherrygrace960]

@@cosmicHalArizona And may God punish the European/North American governments going in to destabilize and destroy them

[@worldissuesmatter1643]

There was a flight a year or so ago from YUL Montreal to YSJ Saint John (or reverse, can’t remember), the Q400 took a longer route to stay out of US airspace, because the particular aircraft they were using was not equipped to fly in US airspace under new requirements. Normally, this flight path is a straight line over Maine.

[@DairyAir]

Really cool to hear about a complicated safety system working successful in an emergency! That doesn’t happen, if you weren’t dedicated to our safety. I’ve never been on a plane, but success should be recognized!

[@MrGrace]

...you've never flown?

[@DairyAir]

@@MrGrace no… it’s the trip, not the destination…

[@tomnisen3358]

You should fly!

[@DairyAir]

@@tomnisen3358 You fly past the good stuff… I’ve jumped a motorcycle 120’… does that count? Standing in lines don’t sound like fun… Maybe some day…

[@tracewallace23]

That's got to make your heart drop a little (Surprise! Nope, you can't go the way you planned) as a pilot

[@georgearmani5867]

Just when I thought I was getting there in the terms of understanding, you come along and show me I know very little..An absolutely brilliant video..thank you!

[@chivalryalive]

Do different nations charge more to cross their airspace than other nations do? Do those fees ever vary due to political or military conditions in that country? Does the fee for a cargo plane cost more, or less, than the fee for a passenger flight? Love your informative and easy to follow videos! 🙂

[@Anna-Rose-]

Yes, great question. I'd also like to know.

[@scottpepmiller115]

Yes, different countries absolutely charge different amounts. Sometimes very small countries that don't even have radar, radios, or any supportive services will still charge money to transit their airspace. I am NOT aware if there is a difference in rates between cargo and passenger aircraft however. (Intl airline Capt)

[@incubus_the_man]

Overflight fees are relatively inexpensive compared to other aviation costs. I found a fee calculation for a 747 flight from London to Seattle over Canada. Canada charged them $2,303 CAD for flying 3,770 km over Canadian airspace which is roughly the cost of two tickets for the same flight. I don't know about cargo but I do know that in the US airlines pay by the number of nautical miles they fly through when flying over US airspace. Historically airlines have always chosen to fly over certain countries to avoid others because of political reasons as well as overflight fees. During the Cold War, Europe was forced to fly inefficient routes over Canada to reach East Asian countries like Japan and China as opposed to flying over the Soviet Union. South Korea even had two airliners shot down after flying near Soviet Airspace. Also, Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was shot down in 2014 during the War in Donbas in Ukraine.

[@incremental_failure]

@@incubus_the_man There's even one more airliner shot down by Russians during the Soviet era. Russians really love shooting down civilian airliners.

[@dannnsss8034]

Some countries do not give a f. Chinese and Russian jets intrude South Korean, Japanese (and North Korean) airspace all the time.

[@Kazashimo1]

Very interesting. This got me thinking how high the countries airspace boundary goes, according to the 'Airspace' article on Wikipedia, there is no international agreement to this. Another interesting fact (from the same article): NASA didn't request to enter Canada's airspace with some of their Space Shuttles!

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 (currently 111 signatories) sets out 100km (the Karman line) as the altitude where sovereignty is lost. The Airspace article is referring to suggestions that "airspace" should be lower.

[@AlGaivotoPfarrhaus-Altersberg]

America Uber Alles, has always been their moto.....

[@momo-i1t3d]

Space shuttles are no real airplanes. once they enter the atmosphere their descent rate is that of a human in free fall

[@fromagefrizzbizz9377]

@@momo-i1t3d The shuttle had a glide angle of about 20-22 degrees. That's a lot better than the straight down of a human in free fall.

[@PuffTMagicDragon]

Heads up! Notice to Air Missions is a new FAA definition, so US only.. The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), still uses Notices to Airmen.

[@saschawinter560]

Great analysis, however I would have LOVED to hear the continued conversation after the pilots have realized that they cannot use their initial route. How was that conversation? I assume respectful and professional? but was there some sort of compassion (especially since Canadians apologize a lot ;)

[@jakubmusil1109]

Just a technical correction (since you shown Swiss franc for the Switzerland yo signify their currency is not Euro) - Neither Poland nor the Czech republic uses Euros. Poles still use Zloty and Czech rep Koruna. Being in EU and being in "Eurozone" (i.e. using Euro as national currency) are two different things.

[@sastrugi4471]

I think they may pay the EU in euros, which divvies it up by control zone. Switzerland is outside, so own currency.

[@waynecaffey4992]

Technically poland and all EU countries are required to eventually adopt it. However as current members of eurozone don't want to crash their currency, there's never been a push. Also the Swiss are not part of the EU, just like Norway they participate only in the EU economic area. (EEA)

[@jakubmusil1109]

@@waynecaffey4992 Thats another topic - and theres no timeline for the adoption afaik. And given that CZ has very little debt compared to other countries that actually use Euros - what crash are you talkin about? It's high debt countries such as Greece, Italy or Portugal that are the risk for the currency. It's not that Poles or Czechs couldn't join the Euro(zone) if they wanted - there aren't any real obstacles as countries with worse economics have joined in the past. We just DON'T want to. But that's getting off topic really.

[@jakubmusil1109]

@@sastrugi4471 based on the video, they don't pay the EU, but the states. Anyway I've checked some official paperwork and it seems the fee is actually defined in Euros anyway...

[@nooboftheyear7170]

@@jakubmusil1109 its not about the amount of debt that they have, it is about how going fully euro will affect them I think considering what happened to the UK

[@ZoomZoomMX3]

Canada told Russia You Fd around now you're finding out

[@TheTerribleTerabyte]

Thanks for the fun & informative content Casey!

[@ek3197]

Ummmmm, it's Kelsey..... just an FYI.

[@naturallyherb]

Regards to random routes: that also occurs over sparsely populated lands as well, most notably Canada and Alaska. There's very few high-level airways over much of Canada connecting the major airports, so a random route is often issued. For instance, Montreal to Vancouver is almost always a random route as if all the airways are strictly followed, then the route would be a lot longer. So coordinate waypoints and VORs being part of the flight plan is very common.

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

YUL/YVR gang! In fact my best flight ever was a redeye from YVR to YUL. Just had a bottle of wine for supper before boarding, and I had the whole row to myself, with my back fitting in the window recess. Never had such legroom. Ordered a couple of beers, got into my pj, got out my pillow and blankie (yes I travel with these in my carry on; sue me), and started gaming on my laptop. Fell asleep in my own "bed", woke up on the apron about to stop, not when they served breakfast, not when we landed. I felt so 1st class.

[@naturallyherb]

@@sophiamarchildon3998 I actually filmed a full flight on YUL-YVR all the way without cutting or editing, twice! Once on the A220 and the other on the A330!

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

@@naturallyherb Nice, where can I see them?

[@naturallyherb]

@@sophiamarchildon3998 My channel!

[@sophiamarchildon3998]

@@naturallyherb Watching the 330 YUL/YVR, and Air Canada is still using the interdiction de fumer sign? Weird

[@jimbojet8728]

Thank you for so much information there. I didn’t take it all in but enjoyed it nonetheless. I will enjoy it next time I watch it too I’m sure ha ha! Thank you.

[@sierrax-ray7709]

I can confirm that is the exact NOTAM I’ve seen every day for a while when doing my preflight in flight school. If you use CFPS you can see any notams for Canadian airports it is all through NavCanada, and also provides weather info

[@teddyboragina6437]

I lived in moncton for a year and flew out of that airport once. not really anything else interesting to comment, but moncton is quite nice, and if anyone is taking a week touring canada's east coast, a day or two in moncton is worthwhile.

[@briancarno8837]

The Scottish Atlantic crossing ATC centre is at monkton near prestwick airport..I always thought it was a strange coincidence the names were almost identical

[@ogalief]

No funswick!! I’m there right now at the flight college. The controllers are nice enough considering they have to constantly deal with student pilots

[@markoconnell804]

Who knew these double as a great teaching for commercial or international flights. Thanks!

[@LauRoot892]

Where ya from ?😶‍🌫️🥶

[@davidp2888]

I didn't realize you had to pay an airspace fee. Wow.

[@mp40submachinegun81]

yup, for example, the US charges $61.75 per 100 nautical miles to fly over land, and $26.51 per 100 nautical miles in US controlled airspace over the ocean.

[@LeviForWaifu]

That country has to rescue you if your plane crashes, and provide ATC (in english) over their territory, so they will charge for it.

[@StySiddhi]

In 2019 Pakistan forbade flying over its airspace, further to India's action against terrorists camp in Pakistan (Balakot). After a while Pakistanis realized they were losing several hundreds of millions US$ in overflight fees, a lot for a cash trapped country. So they lifted the ban very quickly to get paid again. After the counter sanctions of Russia banning Western aircrafts from its airspace, it is said that Russia was earning + US$ 800 million from these overflight fees. Companies pay several thousand of US$ for some overflightfees !

[@ericfielding2540]

Great explanation! One thing I did not understand is why the NOTAM R included a lack of permission to EXIT Canadian airspace.

[@danghostman2814]

Because how can they (legally) get to a spot where they would need to exit? You would need to take off in Canada, or enter Canadian airspace - both of which you are banned from. If you are inside, in the air, and trying to go out, you've already broken at least one of those rules. So, accordingly, you will soon be undergoing an enforced landing - attempting to exit the airspace is an attempt to avoid that enforcement. And therefore, on the principal that it's hard to deal with someone who's run away, a rule to say you can't run away from the other rules. A (somewhat bad) parallel is if you were caught going the wrong way down a one way road, there's additional laws to say you can't drive away from the police officer until they've ticketed/finished their conversation with you.

[@zuWangToo]

Reminds me of a meeting just before the 2nd Gulf War (2002). My division was supposed to enter Iraq through Turkey--didn't happen at the end. Colonel told lieutenant to get visas for Turkey. His reply, "Should i get visas for Iraq, too?" Made the whole meeting pause and stare at him. Invasions rarely get permission from the country invaded.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Moncton Centre: Are you aware of NOTAM Roméo? You aren't allowed to be in our airspace Aeroflot 111: I missed the part where that's my problem *(ends conversation)* Moncton Centre: ...Understandable, have a great day 0:43 little mistake here: Despite being part of the EU it still uses the Polish Złoty as their currency so using the Euro as the currency symbol for Poland is inaccurate. So when talking about an airline paying Poland to use that airspace, show the "zł" for Złoty

[@L8nitedave]

Wow, you did that selfie with your two left engines stopped, ballsy.

[@ve2mrxB]

Didn't want to get sucked in if slipped ;-)

[@fredjepson9992]

This is good stuff, Kelsey. Thanks for making these. You are an astute judge of what is/isn't interesting. I have yet to bail out of one of your videos before reaching the end.

[@colleenmathers4186]

What a great video!! I learned alot!! I didn’t realize you had to pay countries to fly over them!!

[@ClearedAsFiled]

Re: Book Kelsey.... Your channel is awesome..... I have watched all your videos! Where can I order a copy of your book? I am a retired pilot... for medical reasons so it is great that I can still "fly" with your channel 😎👍

[@nuwberger]

Yes, this channel is really good! I didn't even like planes before!

[@samrossi2641]

Get better soon my friend

[@74gear]

sorry you can't fly anymore and that book thing was a joke, but I am glad you can live vicariously through the channel Avid!

[@notme2day]

I don't know which is worse honestly... being a pilot who's grounded for medical reasons or never getting the chance to fly because you don't have depth perception. I grew up flying but never got to land. When I found out I had vision issues it ended the dream yet I'm still fascinated. Still.... We're both living vicariously through Kelsey.

[@Kait2478]

Speaking of Gander, there's a really interesting book I read a couple years ago about the closing down of US airspace on 9/11 when a bunch of planes had to land in Newfoundland. It's called The Day the World Came to Town. Highly recommend.

[@xiaoyuanhu6036]

Yess the broadway musical Come from Away is actually based on this event

[@Rhfusjsnfhe]

I love this series keep it up!

[@74gear]

glad you like it Luka, thanks for watching!

[@NJPCofficial]

You are criminally underated.

[@p8ryot]

in Jan of 95 I was in 747 Loadmaster training with Polar Air Cargo in Anchorage and the route was Khabarovsk for fuel, Beijing, Shanghai, and over Russia to Belgium, then the opposite for the return. We topped off the tanks in Khabarovsk, and landed in Beijing for some cargo then spent the night in Shanghai after onloading more cargo. 11 days later we finally departed Shanghai empty and were sent home back to Anchorage. I was told the problem was we won a bid for this contract for China Eastern Airlines. Since we were awarded the contract instead of Aeroflot the Russian government retailiated by denying us overflight rights. I didn't care to know the behind the scenes politics but I enjoyed an all expense paid 11 day vacation in Shanghai.

[@104thMaverick]

Damn how many times can you play the same radio message? This channel always takes sooo long to get to the point, makes the videos arduous to watch

[@luism.5999]

Totally.

[@markguglielmana4838]

I guess you haven't figure out the fast forward function...

[@davidm8657]

Or just a thought, don’t watch if you are so bothered.

[@diotough]

I wonder how much longer it actually was since the map distorts more heavier the closer you get to the poles. With a regular mercator projection (which those maps apparently weren't) Greenland appears to be size of Africa when in fact it's ~14x smaller. So a trip for north appears a lot longer than it is. No doubt that it will be longer, I just wonder how much longer it actually is and not just appears to be.

[@lucasd3658]

Probably about 2 hours

[@jerithil]

@@lucasd3658 Doing some quick checking with my globe it looks to be somewhere around 15-20% longer versus a more direct route.

[@Torbjorn.Lindgren]

FlightAware says the flight took roughly one hour longer than the earlier flights. Their actual route taken also reveals that they ignored the controller and flew through Canada's airspace exactly as the flight plan said! (and news articles confirm this), but ended up having to deviate to avoid Finland's airspace (minor diversion, at most 5 minutes of that hour). Those articles also makes the timing clear, Canada's airspace was closed slightly more than 6 hours before takeoff so the dispatcher really should have known about it and planned differently, especially since the path is *clearly* built on "parts of Europe's airspace is closed so we must route around".

[@roryonabike5863]

@@Torbjorn.Lindgren According to Reuters, Aeroflot didn't ignore the prohibition. It declared that it was a "humanitarian flight", which required a different response from Air Traffic Control. Note also that the flight originated in the US. Transport Canada warned of future enforcement action, and Aeroflot has not violated Canadian airspace since.

[@Jehty_]

@@glenna.450 So, I did a little bit of digging and apparently the R stands for "replace". So in the example at 4:14 : G0213/22 NotamR G0211/22 Notam G0213/22 replaces the previous Notam G0211/22 Other options are NotamN (new) Example: G0211/22 NotamN That was a new Notam that didn't replace anything. And NotamC (cancel) That's a Notam that cancels another Notam (disclaimer: I have no clue what I am talking about this is just what I found out after a few minutes on Google)

[@rustymugg9658]

Rusty likes how Kelsey speaks in the third person...lol Thank You your a good speaker kept me engaged and interested. 🛫❤️🙏🏾

[@tatlowtimes]

Awesome video. Very informative and learned quite a bit. Not all of us who love the videos are pilots and this is great details on how things work. :0)

[@suzannetitkemeyernlq]

Fascinating content! I've always wondered about this because every few months when I fly from Liberia, Costa Rica to D.C. and back. The route is always the same, fly over Nicaragua (oh look it's Lake Managua!) into the Gulf, then over Cuba (or is it next to Cuba? You can see Cuba from the plane) to Key West and then south Florida and up the east coast. Figured there are "sky lanes" but thanks for explaining it. Is it common for airlines to schedule flights going into and out of certain airports around the same time? Here in Liberia you can count on most of the flights being within the same two hour window and I've always wondered the why.

[@Copy_Pastry]

If there aren't a big volume of flights, grouping them up means you can cut down on staffing/admin/overhead

[@hewhohasnoidentity4377]

Yes, there are jet routes that act like highways in the sky. Complete with intersections and on and off ramps.

[@crewdawg52]

Excellent descriptions of what, how, and why international pilots go through and have to deal with on thier flights (retired B747-400 and A-350 pilot with over 6,000 hrs in those aircraft).

[@stevenschwartzhoff1703]

Cool technical point. It would also be interesting to hear what happens if you are forced to land in a place where, say because of sanctions, not able to refuel, get spare parts.... If I recall, there were some planes that had to land in Iran; the passengers got out with no problem, but it took months to get the equipment out.

[@robfreeman5783]

They can abandon their plane and walk/swim home.

[@bdb3350]

14:19 So here's everyone else flying in the tracks, and here's Kelsey doing his thing his random path getting it done. Looks like he is also defying physics and mechanical abilities flying at light speed 👍.

[@notme2day]

Kelsey being random 😆 😆😆caused me to go blue side down on that.

[@artheriford]

You bring up a valid point The dispatcher may not know. The info they have is not up to the second, unlike many believe. Once they have a heads up, someone is making phone calls. Once they get get an answer, a dispatcher(S) has multiple flights they are working that need to be advised , and then pass on info to multiple flights. One person is not watching one flight

[@IzzyOnTheMove]

Kelsey : What happens when you're flying your plane and a bunch of countries tell you you're not allowed to fly over their airspace? Me : You got to get the F?%$ out!!! 😆

[@PilotCyrus]

Cool video, except that at 0:44 Poland and Czech Republic are not part of the EURO-zone. They are members of the EU though. You have to pay your fees in Slotty and Kronas there ;-)

[@LauRoot892]

Hmm 🤔

[@Ugimara-Imokrasa]

As someone who just became an official ATC, it feels nice to finally understand the lingo.

[@denidale4701]

Seems likely that there was at least one plane getting fuel problems because of this, as they were already close to the border. What did they do? They probably didn't have enough fuel to fly all the way back.

[@mapratt]

Hopefully you listened all the way and heard him say the pilot could land rather than crash. Plane might be confiscated but everyone would live.

[@DavidDavis311]

Declaring an emergency would be respected and they would be granted permission to land. But the plane would likely be grounded afterwards.

[@rodneyholland1867]

From a comment above, it appears that in one case the pilots just went "stuff it" we'll keep on going!

[@ianmcnaney6528]

@@rodneyholland1867 That reminds me of a bad old joke about four-engine aircraft. PA: "Hello, this is your Captain speaking. We're having a bit of trouble with engine number two and have shut it down for safety. We anticipate a one hour delay, and apologize for the inconvenience." [time passes] PA: "Hello, this is your Captain speaking. We've also had to shut down engine number three, and now expect to arrive three hours late." [time passes] PA: "Captain here, engine number four has been overheating and we've shut it down as a precaution. We now expect to arrive six hours late." Passenger: "Typical. If anything happens to the last one we'll be up here forever!"

[@polticalme1677]

That was really interesting. A lot of information you usually wouldn't get as a passenger - or as someone like me who'd never board a plane. Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid of flying. I'm just afraid of "unforeseen" landings.

[@jonathanp89]

Just curious, why would you never board a plane? Its the safest form of transportation. You are something like 100x more likely to be involved in a fatal RTC on the way to the airport, than have anything go wrong with the flight. Flying is a wonderful experience, you should seriously try it. As for unforseen landings, exceptionally rare. Good tip of your nervous is too look at the cabin crew, if they start to get nervous (which I've never seen) then that would be a good time to panic!

[@polticalme1677]

​@@jonathanp89 There are a couple of reasons. I can't stand height. I'm feeling dizzy on the first rung of a ladder. That's one reason. The next reason is a flight on a CH-53 during my time as a soldier. I filled up two puke bags and my helmet right after take off. It was the most terrible sensation I ever had. The third reason is the feeling of being delivered to the pilot, the weather and the possible failures of an aircraft. To me statistics don't matter at all. Fear is irrational and you only have three options to respond to it: play dead, run, or fight. I don't know why I should expose myself to these things. There's simply no need for it.

[@jancovanderwesthuizen8070]

That’s awesome, I had no clue you could dm controllers

[@MrTmm97]

I was wondering what would happen if they landed. I mean if they were already in the airspace or just outside after almost fully crossing the ocean, you’d think at the bear minimum they would have been allowed to land and refuel. It would be pretty messed up if they didn’t allow them to land and refuel when this first happened. I’m thinking if this announcement happened while they were crossing the ocean, more than halfway there.

[@Vyshada]

I'd think it would be illegal to deny emergency plane a landing. And even if they did, it's not like they can shoot it down in case pilots decide to land anyway.

[@Elaines-travels]

I believe in this case the pilots would be detained and the plane would be held as a Russian asset

[@TXMEDRGR]

Too complicated, I'm going to just stay back in coach and trust the pilots to get me there.

[@autohmae]

In rare occasions this might mean you end up somewhere you didn't plan/want to go.

[@MrGoldman9]

Thank you, Captain, we always get helpful information from you.

[@Vititi16]

Aeroflot 111 is the KMIA-UUEE flight, very stressing and demanding operation that I used to deal with here at Miami Airport until they cancelled the flights for the airspace and ban reason!

[@magesnz]

Can I ask why it is stressing and demanding?

[@Vititi16]

@@magesnz The airline used to came out of schedule, most of the time early, sometimes delayed , in aviation you have slots assigned, if you operate early or late you are out of slot, the ground personnel are going to be in other flights that are on time, with the Covid 19, ground handling companies are very short of staff , in addition the station manager was very rude and unpolite, that situation created a lot of stress for the personnel that was working the flight (cleaners and passenger service agents)…

[@magesnz]

@@Vititi16 that sucks , I wouldn’t personally fly them because I’m not attracted by Russia and if the service is like that , I’ll skip them