Slip Angle in Sim Racing - Nail This and Smash Your Lap Times

[@jwork5680]

so this is what "IN BETWEEN DRIFT AND GRIP" thing that Ryosuke was talking about

[@sytran666]

God arm technique

[@IntrebuloN]

It's not between drift and grip, it's maximum grip. Maximum slip angle for a given tire and vehicle configuration before transitioning into an actual slide is the maximum grip level for that setup. This is why the corner is faster when you are the maximum slip angle for a given setup, you are developing MORE mechanical grip from the tire at this slip angle. This is a critical skill in kart racing, since the rear axle is solid, perfecting the technique that gets you to the maximum slip angle quickly and hold there is necessary to have the kart negotiate any turn at speed, otherwise the kart simply does not turn. When done correctly, the wheel is straightened at apex and the kart steers itself out of the exit. The skill is not necessary to get a sprung race car to turn, but it IS required to get the maximum grip level out of the suspension and tires. In karts, if you haven't mastered this, you simply have to go much slower around turns to turn at all. When someone does it right, you see them turn in, make very small corrections, and then straighten the wheel to center. When they aren't doing it, they turn in, have to make big corrections to keep the kart on the racing line, and have to manually steer out of the exit.

[@HANDLERofKNIFE]

@@IntrebuloN Stfu maaaan, Kart geometry is designed in a way so that when you turn the steering wheel the kart lifts inner rear wheel. Trust me if your frame is warped and the kart doesn't lift the wheel you cant get anywhere with it. you can fact check me i dont give a fuck. forums.kartpulse.com/t/lets-talk-about-wheel-lift/4028

[@jzyyz]

@@HANDLERofKNIFE neildegrassetyson.png

[@takehirotaniguchi6271]

@@IntrebuloN any rebuttals??

[@toptextbottomtext3062]

"A Full throttle four-wheel drift with almost no countersteer. I'm really impressed" - Ryosuke Takahashi

[@ChizeSOI]

A four wheel drift is still quite different to what is described in the video, this is more similar to what god arm does while what Takumi does is more like rally.

[@Reinhard_Erlik]

@@ChizeSOI yep even keisuke does that I've noticed he slides a little it's the difference between technique for rally and technique for circuits

[@YouilAushana]

Let's not argue the Minutia of the angle. Four wheel drift is a four wheel drift.

[@Reinhard_Erlik]

@@YouilAushana it's not a 4 wheel drift

[@Reinhard_Erlik]

@@ChizeSOI this isnt god arm technique it's completely different I just realized

[@Diskjok11]

Always felt myself searching for the edge of grip where the car feels like it floats out of the corner. Greatest feeling

[@npne1253]

Yeah it just feels great to get that perfect exit!

[@victorbui1749]

Yeah dude, I’d feel that floatiness and rotation and know that was the sensation to have but never attributed it to slip angle. In real life woah it’s surreal

[@Diskjok11]

@@victorbui1749 yeah, it’s odd how We found the “float” and knew it was the right way to go fast, but it was awesome being able to keep up with people on sims after only teaching myself and just pushing the limits of grip. That’s what’s so great about sims, there’s no repercussions

[@Boonatix]

How do you "feel" this in simulations... ? What exactly changes on the FFB of your steering wheel that makes you feel it? I would love to kinda get an understanding of how to feel this to learn it ^^

[@npne1253]

@@Boonatix I guess It's when you feel your car start oversteering a little bit during entry and into the corner, which points you at the exit in a better angle to get accelerating faster, but idk how to put it either.

[@volleyballurrrr]

I’ve heard this talked about as vaguely as “making the car rotate” or “introducing the car to the corner”, but I hadn’t heard it explained objectively. This makes sense, excited to try it. As with many things in racing it seems it comes down to “smooth is fast” and there’s no substitute to properly smooth throttle and brake inputs

[@bullracing1]

Myself, a keyboard user : Smooth Throttle and braking are both out of my dictionary.

[@Gean...de...Oliveira]

If you're constantly trying to force your limits a little bit more these things come naturally. As you brake deeper and harder the car naturally wants to lose grip. You "just" have to adjust your driving/setup to make the car only a little bit loose. In GTR2 it was quite natural to me (specially because I like Porsches 😅) but in Kart Racing Pro not that much as Karts are very sensitive on braking and turning.

[@stephen2282]

@@bullracing1 what sim do you play in? as using mouse steering can easily boost your driving experience without even having to go out and any new hardware...

[@baymechanic1009]

may not need smooth inputs if they can be fast and consistent. along with a very good feel for the momentum of the car. its why senna rough throttle technique worked so well for rapid adjustment of yaw angle in his F1

[@sntslilhlpr6601]

This objective stuff is like music to my ears. I know a lot of people might not relate to this but it reminds me very much of me finally learning to swing a baseball bat properly more than a decade ago. I grew up hearing all kinds of colloquialisms like "throw your hands at the ball" and "focus on your follow through" and it never clicked until I looked online myself and found people analyzing pro swings and objectively breaking down each particular movement and thinking about the physics of it all. I wish I found this channel sooner.

[@REDSIX]

"If you got natural talent..." *Shakes head no*

[@REDSIX]

@@BG_36 um, I just think I'm more of a motorcycle person. I've never felt as comfortable in a car as I do on a bike. But there are no home simulations for motorcycles that are worth a damn. So in a seat I go, I'm just not good at them.

[@REDSIX]

@@BG_36 well my key sucks

[@kinocorner976]

A man who practices his craft will beat anyone with “Natural talent.” If you have natural talent, you don’t feel the need to improve. Example? Tom Brady? He didn’t have natural talent like some other QBs...However, he had dedication and mastered his craft.

[@SlowN55F22]

@@kinocorner976 Definitely correct. Hard work beats talent every time.

[@shashlik7959]

@@kinocorner976 but what if your rival combines natural talent with dedication, gl beating that lol

[@quickc4626]

Well articulated, particularly like the connection between trail braking and slip angle, the what and why.

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers man, took a while to find the words for this one, such an abstract thing to try and describe. Simple to do, hard to explain!

[@mc1996]

That part of the video is just top job. Very, very, very good explaination on that part.

[@JohnKickboxing]

Hey ... why don't F1 cars slide at the rear like this one in the video ??

[@Pak_PakoBbl4]

@@JohnKickboxing They are actually sliding, but angle is small

[@JohnKickboxing]

@@Pak_PakoBbl4 👌

[@MrRealeyesrealize]

I discovered this intuitively and honestly thought it was a psychics exploit for a long time. Awesome to know it’s a skill to keep building on

[@RalstigRacing]

It’s most certainly a real thing. Lots of fun to pull off in real life.

[@1107DRATINI]

I have always felt the slip angle when i got through a corner pushing the edge of the grip. Just never knew what it was called. Nor was i reliable in Controlling it.Thanks for the amazing explanation!

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks for watching and commenting, I plead you to do some deep diving on the subject if it's triggered your appetite. The way tyres do their work is a field of extreme complexity and so, so fascinating.

[@npne1253]

@@dannyleeracing I find that a Nascar stock car really helped me practice this, as with touring cars I've been kind of spoiled for grip yet at the same time not knowing why I am understeering alot mid-cornering. But with the simplicity of a stock car , It's also very challenging due to how much they can understeer/oversteer and how the breaks barely work compared to GTs. But it is this challenge that helped me practice slipping and trail-braking as previously my driving style revolved more around going into a corner deep to get a faster exit.

[@dmsdmullins]

Driving in snow will give you a great example and practice of slip angle.

[@jwork5680]

@@dannyleeracing does slip angle relies on front tire heavily?? Will it wear the fronts more?

[@Al-mk4gk]

"felt the slip angle" lol

[@b33bdaddy]

“Trailbraking is how you do it, slip angle is why you do it” Dude, I´ve just found your channel and although I already have some vital knowledge about these techniques, the way you explain it…wow, it is mindboggling and it made so many things just connect together for me... I am just sitting and realizing (and also smiling). Hats off, love it!!!

[@davidzemon7835]

Been autocrossing for a few years now and am just starting to get into sim racing in the last week. This was hugely helpful in explaining why some of my laps have been faster than others despite hearing more tire squeal and seeming to "drift" around a corner here or there. Thank you for slow motion capture and deep technical dive

[@dannyleeracing]

That's great man - if you like autocross and autosolo then don't pass up Live For Speed - it has an autocross course editor, not exactly the friendliest thing but it totally works - here's an example of autosolo in LFS: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmeYY2alg82FrKs

[@club.alfagt]

What’s your sim racing setup

[@davidzemon7835]

@@dannyleeracing that's awesome, thanks! I did a bit more research, to see if there was anything newer with autocross, and apparently not really. But I think I found out why, and it makes perfect sense: you either need VR or triple screens to make it work, and I have neither :/.

[@davidzemon7835]

@@club.alfagt not sure if you're asking Danny or me, but I'm running a T300 with a DIY rig and 32" 4k monitor at a 50° FoV. I just ordered ClubSport v3 pedals a couple days ago though... We'll see how long those take to arrive

[@craigholmes8188]

Excellent, explains perfectly why on some corners rotation seems to just happen with limited steering input.

[@eloicpotel7272]

Steering with your feet !

[@re5remake447]

This was such a great explanation of slip angle. And the revelation that trailbraking is “how” you do it was awesome.

[@StephenBornhoft]

Dude I have never sent money to anyone through KZbin before but this video unlocked EVERYTHING for me with my driving. OMG. I can’t tell you how much this clicked for me. I spent a lot on my sim rig and computer to do iRacing and I’ve just not been doing great. After watching this I got second place in my very next race and took 4 seconds off my time. No joke. It also changed my driving with my real car. I got my dream car which is a 911 and your advice just made my enjoyment increase even more. Thank you!!!

[@dannyleeracing]

Honestly, it's exactly people such as yourselves that I think about when I write these scripts. Just a bit of hope and inspiration in the right places can make all the difference! Thank you so much for your Super Thanks, I appreciate it!

[@jichaelmorgan3796]

This concept was essential in the old Grand Prix Legends game, but I never knew what it was called. It was a magical feeling when you did it right though. Amazing simulator for the time.

[@RadeticDaniel]

The basic concept of slight oversteering on approach and slight understeering on exit is the same, but there is a difference between just carrying speed through the corner and actually gaining grip. Most 1930's cars end up faster with a little slide regardless of which way you choose because of those biclicle tires XD

[@PSWii360onBaSS]

I've known about this since watching initial d. Never knew what it was called though. I almost exclusively use this now in games that I can use it. I noticed Takumi wasn't always drifting but had a slight slide in some turns. I used this in Forza, helped drifting as well.

[@BadgerScrub]

I don't mean to put a damper on anything, but I don't think Forza or games like it simulate slip angle. A subject like this would only ever come up in sims like iRacing.

[@PSWii360onBaSS]

@@BadgerScrub It sure seems like it. I would expect Forza to since they were all about those tire physics at one point.

[@RadeticDaniel]

@@BadgerScrub any sim or simcade that has a passable suspension model and 2 directions friction for tires material will have at least some level of gain from slip angle. Even when tire deformation is out of the package, it is still possible to have some return

[@PURENT]

@@BadgerScrub It does simulate it, at the same time it's very easy to pull off because the steering angle is auto-assisted in those games.

[@Quazi-Moto]

This made me think -- I wish a sim/game would give us the ability to choose a certain section of track to practice over and over. Let us decide which section, how long or short that section is, and let us repeat until we're blue in the face. It sucks having to wait the entire lap just for one more try at a particular corner(s).

[@RB-cx3ce]

This is something gran turismo is actually really good about and seems like such a logical thing its nothing but mind numbing that other sims dont have it

[@KepleroGT]

I don't think sim racing should become a spinoff of guitar hero. The top esports guys already practice a million hours a week just to shave off 1 tenth

[@zigmar8944]

Iracing just recently released this feature. I mostly play ACC though 😅

[@Quazi-Moto]

@@zigmar8944 I wish I could afford a good gaming PC. But I'm stuck with what I've got... console racing. It's good that someone finally had the idea, though.

[@deadbeef576]

The newest F1 games by Codemasters/EA feature a replay function, so you try a corner one way, rewind back to the start of the corner and try again immediately.

[@dantespice]

I joined iracing a few days ago, and recently got into the realm of GT cars and was taken aback by how difficult those cars are to drive. Watching this video and your brake bias vid was bang on, and has truly gave me insight on what to work on. Great job!

[@AdrianTheEighth]

Absolutely brilliant video! I've often wondered how I can be so far off the pace while apparently driving the same lines. I will be giving this a try for sure!

[@wally99szarek]

It took me months of racing to figure this out and watching the first minute of the video perfectly explained something I couldn't put into words.

[@jtcranger02]

I already knew a decent amount about slip angle, but this video is so much more in-depth than any other I've seen. Props for doing your research and actually understanding the concept really well. Subscribed.

[@paulh8829]

Both Hamilton and Schumacher like a slightly loose rear end, makes sense

[@Klont123]

That thing “only” Max can drive with and Alex and Pierre couldn’t (which was laughable) Ps Alonso is also famous for it

[@speedars7405]

Oh yeah with the undeersteer + slip angle for that corner exit speed

[@jwork5680]

@lol shit where do u get this info mate?

[@aydankhaliq2967]

@@jwork5680 onboard footage?

[@retardno002]

​@@jwork5680Hamilton likes to square off corners precisely because he's mastered the slip, and can do more of it without losing the rear. He brakes late and hard, rotates the car, and straightens the exit. The chonky tires and soft suspension (relative to this year's cars) is what made him so fast in the W11. The current gen cars are much stiffer and have thinner tires, so Max's style of braking earlier and keeping the car more balanced through the corner is better suited to this kind of setup. To slip the rear you need to transfer more weight around and unsettle the car a bit, especially with the levels of downforce F1 cars produce.

[@Coelho3005]

A great car for this is the AE86 in assetto corsa, it's absolute fastest is when you barely steer and the car and it feels like it knows where the exit is by itself.

[@toptextbottomtext3062]

GAS GAS GAS

[@DINOzye]

the drift spec or the regular version?

[@_Foxal_]

@@DINOzye NOT the Drift Version, I don't know about the stock, but I have been learning Slip Angle for quite some time in the tuned version. :)

[@Coelho3005]

@@DINOzye either stock or tuned although I feel the tuned version goes there a bit quicker so it's a bit more sensitive

[@nade5557]

@@DINOzye I cant speak for the other 86s but the tuned version feels like it steers itself with the steering wheel straight, especially on longer corners the nose just rotates in towards the corner by itself

[@maxversthappening8166]

I’ve never been great at judging grip limits, and this explains a lot thanks

[@speedars7405]

this guy is everywhere

[@speedars7405]

And I respect that

[@gtracer6629]

When I was in high school. I studied from a book by Italian driver Piero Taruffi called "The Technique of Motor Racing". It went into everything from slip angles to the coefficients of traction of different road/track surfaces. My regular school studies suffered, but it did me well later as a driver.

[@dannyleeracing]

Can't put down sweet laptimes with your times tables, innit

[@stezenast5878]

Took me 3 minutes to realize i was watching a video game

[@IzaakHagy]

He said sim racing and I said wait a minute...

[@Looserkid13]

lmao

[@roastingminer6919]

Then u must be blind m8 😂😂😂, go outside 😅

[@spiyder]

@@roastingminer6919 bottom right, it says iracing.com

[@armymanal]

@@roastingminer6919 is that a cure for blindness?

[@Twongo]

The captions, colors, and arrows are a wonderful tool effectively employed. I can really see where the weight is going in your descriptions. Outstanding presentation.

[@alexarango6677]

I have like 1900 hours on assetto corsa but I started to dig deeper into this technique after I started racing the mx5 cup on iracing and I realized how much rotation you can get out of the car based on the amount of grip and the momentum you carry through corners, which I find it significantly higher (or more noticeable) than assetto corsa. It is tough to mentally commit to slip angle after driving cautiously for so many hours but I think its has been easier for me to adapt since what I mostly do is drifting and I'm used to slide around pretty much everything

[@angryginger791]

Great video. People should keep in mind that as grip increases, slip angle is more difficult to feel and control. Doing this will be easier to learn on cars like the MX-5 and the Skippy. Then move up as you progress.

[@amirgamil]

This is the video I was looking for years ago. Thrown up by the algorithm today. I haven't done any sim driving in years. Modified to go back now and level up like I always wanted to. Thanks man! Great video! Fantastic quality! You've gotten a new subscriber today.

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers for the subscribe and the kind comment!

[@olof1]

I've been racing in iRacing for a few weeks in the MX5s. Yesterday I got some crazy rotation in a hairpin where it felt so effortless and light. Then I spun on the exit, of course. Watching this video explained what happened to me and helps me understand that it wasn't a mistake on entry, it was the perfect entry, I just need to learn to control it. Great video, thank you!

[@fowlmouth824]

Took me about 20 hours to discover this, and then, about 30 minutes later, KZbin recommends this bloody video! Fantastic depictions and explanations! Highly recommended watch!

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, really appreciate the view and the time taken to comment!

[@TheVolkki]

Wow, this is exactly the video I needed to see. I am one of those who drive too cautiously because "sliding bad" is what I had heard. I take a corner fast but start hearing the tyres sliding and the wheel getting vague, yet when the corner is over I've suddenly gained a lot of the time on the delta. I couldn't understand what exactly was happening, but it's just been slip angle! Thank you so much for this content

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, always nice to hear. I hope you find some extra pace!

[@alvaroolavarria1832]

Very good point, that's in my opinion the most important thing karting teached me comparing to other drivers. In karting rear weels are allways sliding because of not having a diferential so you have to master the slip angle at the enter of the corners to get a great exit speed

[@dannyleeracing]

Karting is something that looks so simple but has so many underlying techniques and layers that it really is an ideal test of how well you understand driving a 4-wheeled vehicle. Can't wait to get back to some karting here in the UK but I also need to shed a few kilograms if I'm gonna be winning the arrive-and-drive races (no ballast)

[@gannonb99]

I have noticed this in short oval racing over at Stafford motor speedway in Connecticut, the drivers actually utilize a small touch of the brakes rather than trail braking through the corner just to get the nose to dive into the pavement and get the rear of the car to rotate through the corner by the exit in turn 2 or four you'll see the car flying off of the bank to the outer wall stretch and its really cool to watch

[@tomsterbg8130]

As you said "Tires give out the most grip when they're about to lose it" it actually makes a lot of sence. Every slip map consists of three stages, no matter the material: 1 - the first region where the more force you add the more resistance you get 2 - the smallest region which is a spike 3 - the infinite region after the spike where whatever you were pushing is now sliding and as the force increases, the counterforce decreases

[@XpVersusVista]

great job mate! i somewhat did this intuitively already, but i was quite inconsistent about it simply due to not knowing what exactly causes it (trailbraking). This caused me to over or understeer half the time when i tried to reproduce this slip angle intuitively. now that i saw your pedals and the explanation behind everything (i already suspected that a tiny slide increases performance, but the rest was important) will hopefully lead to more consistent and faster laptimes! thanks a thousand

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, appreciate you taking the time to write a comment with your own experiences. It's second nature now but at some point I would have had no idea about this stuff and over time it just layered gradually until I got to this point. Keep nudging the limits innit

[@flame1154]

THIS is the one thing I've always struggled with. Throttle application, trailbraking, smooth steering always came naturally, but walking the line between full traction and oversteer is something I can do on occasion, but never replicate consistently

[@rockyripvon3279]

Practice makes perfect.

[@gregt4671]

Glad I stumbled upon this, thanks for sharing!! I am/was in that category of doing some of these things (trail braking, throttling up to help the car rotate) without realizing exactly why. I went out and won my very next road race after watching this, and I don't win overly often - hard to say for sure, but I think having this in the back of my mind helped me eke out just a little extra pace and hang on for the W in front of a very competitive chaser. Looking forward to running many more laps and refining my application of this knowledge!

[@seveger]

I knew about slip angle, but never could get my head around it, utill i've got into rally games, where grip is much less and slip angle needed for perfect cornering is huge, like almost perpendicular in hairipin turns. and from there i've learned to do it more suttle and controlble on track.

[@Markoes1990]

i was on the G29 wheel for a long time and never understood/dared to introduce slip angle to my driving. i am on the csw 2.5 for a week now and it just snuck in, and man... once you feel it and get it, its a whole new world opening. for example this week at Daytona, the second horseshoe seems to be going on automatic. the car just steers in on itself and you get so much traction and exit speed out of it. :) great video!

[@mantasisganaitis2281]

Awesome video, enjoyed it a lot, and it gave me different view, which gives me some new questions to figure out, thanks. I want to point out that tire is always in a state of slip angle when it is turning a car through a curve. A state of slip angle which you mean is it's peak angle, or being near around the peak where tires performance is best. Slip angles per each wheel can be manipulated by altering rolling stiffness amount, and balance per front vs rear. You can make a car to respond differently to transients. Increase of load on a tire also pushes its slip angle peak further and up, while also having less load shift on softer end helps to keep wheels loaded more evenly, and it is better to keep wheels loaded as even as possible due to tire load sensitivity. You can also influence slip angles directly by adjusting wheels toes alignment. Also the reason why you need to apply throttle during oversteer can be to balance the wheel loads, or cancel engien braking (as in coasting). But mainly you need to do it to cause rear wheels slide more predictably, otherwise they can grip up at "uncomfortable moment", which means if you haven't set your steering to lead the car smoothly out of the oversteer, if the rear tires grips up at that moment, then you will have a tank slapper. There are actually two slip effects. The slip angle, and slip ratio. Slip angle is about how hard tire is at work laterally, and slip ratio is about how hard the tire is at work longitudinally. Both can't be working at their full potential at the same time.

[@PhillipHomer]

Great comment!

[@thanasisprofilis5169]

So glad I came across this. I didn't even know slip angle was a thing in racecars, I thought it was only a thing in karting, and even there (as you will see in my vids) I am yet to master it. Even though I am usually not far off fast drivers I was not aware of this. Thanks and keep it up:)

[@DesertCow1000]

Damn I figured this out on my own after decades of sim racing but never knew it had a name or how to describe it 😅 great video!!

[@vinny1681]

Confirm that the classic Skip Barber Book is a great read. Great explanation of slip angle, which can be and is often explained with too much science. Nailed it

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, appreciated. It's a subject with way, WAY more to give and anyone that wants to know more should hit the book. Finding the words without waffling or getting too detailed means some liberties were taken for the sake of videoness, so for sure your testimonial of that book is useful

[@reynaldiwidjaja277]

I feel the slip angle on no name corner at spa like at first what the hell is this feeling but I gained like .2 and suddenly got this video on my recommendation great stuff !

[@thehandleiwantedwasntavailable]

Used to race Superkarts and learned about slip from a book on kart racing. Once i started applying it my lap times dropped; and yes, it feels like floating through the corner.

[@claeswikberg8958]

I have no clue as to why you only got 9.4K subscribers. such great videos, calm and rational explanations. thanks!

[@dannyleeracing]

On the contrary, couldn't be happier mate. Thanks for watching and commenting, check my other newer ones too and thanks for the kind feedback, man

[@claeswikberg8958]

@@dannyleeracing i have watched a couple of them allready, but ill go through all of them

[@MichaelParktheFirst]

thank you for this video. I've always had a vague concept of slip angle and have experienced it many times, but this video cleared the concept up so much for me. One thing I'd recommend to people if they don't know how to slide a car is to play Dirt Rally 2.0, as the game forces you to slide to become fast. Plus, when the cars are on loose surface, every single dynamic in a car is accentuated, and it really helps you learn how to drive with your feet.

[@jraybay]

Wow never saw someone with a Saab pic 😆 that's true too. Rally really brings out the best in you and forces you to dance on the pedals

[@Route765]

I never thought of trail braking as being a way to add slip angle. Good video!

[@kevinblythe2192]

A friend told me years ago that he used this slip technique while racing road bikes. You need a big pair doing this on two wheels for sure. I did it once on a bike in the wet by mistake. A frantic 3seconds for sure. Great vid btw..

[@thatfunnykekguy6377]

I never knew this existed in first place also never thought this was the result of the trail braking ... I am speechless at this point. Thanks for making me realize, that I need to learn more and more and train myself to reach next level.

[@axelode45]

Oh so that's what that feeling is. Great video mate!

[@quantumrobingaming6667]

Great and helpful video; however, one thing which I think needs to be added is that slip angle is not only about the rear tyres. Because each tyre has a different contact patch and pressure onto the road surface, each tyre can have a different slip angle when cornering. Typically these are used and measured based on the ratio of front to rear slip, with 1:1 being neutral, greater than 1:1 being understeer and less than 1:1 being oversteer. Different disciplines require different uses/needs of slip angle, some needing more understeer or oversteer and others needing a neutral 1:1 slip. Also, keep in mind that a neutral slip 1:1 does not mean the wheels follow the same path but could also be all 4 wheels are slipping away at the same rate, essentially creating a 4 wheel drift. Anyway, a great and very consumable explanation in the video, thank you!

[@matthewblainey4254]

Don't do any sim racing but this BEAUTIFUL explaination made things clear and enjoyable, couldn't be better

[@MrHaggyy]

The video is great. Slip angle and trial braking are linked, but fundamentaly not the same thing. In any corner as long as the axle is not drifting you have a slip-angle. In a really nerdy-way the camber of your car produces a force that pushes on the axle, even if you drive straight. Each tire has a specific window of temperature, slip-angle and load that effect it's grip. On a GT car that is usually 70-90°C,

[@2Old4Forza]

fantastic video. well done, seems the iracing tire model is getting more friendly to slip angles which is nice to see. shared to my community!

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers for watching and sharing too, I appreciate the uplift from the community and everyone else's perspectives. iRacing has always gel'd with me but the same would be said if I'd hit rFactor2 instead, you learn the quirks in each. ACC took some getting used to but now it feels bang on.

[@trackdriverdeals1415]

Great video! I was thinking about this topic the other day and came up with the same word that you also used in the video: 'floating'. I can't think of a better description to convey what it feels like when the slip angle is about right. I think another way to describe it is when you feel the car move under you slightly but the car seems to 'dig in' i.e. you feel an increase in grip rather than a decrease associated with a 'slide'. Fascinating topic!

[@Sassannid]

This is gold material. Thanks so much for this. Sincerely, a sim racing newcomer

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, enjoy your stay in the world of fake racing!

[@nick16652]

This is super helpful. I alway has this feeling that I missed something. But when I tried to figure out this on my own, I think I over did it so I lose my rear all the time which result a bad lap time. Now you put it altogether! Thank you so much!!

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, cheers for watching and leaving a comment. It's one of those things that is easy to get wrong when first pushing the limit and when you get things wrong you tend to think you're heading the wrong way. You gotta fall over a few times before you can ski.

[@nick16652]

@@dannyleeracing I guess that's the fun part of racing. Seems so easy but always new things to learn.

[@rockboy9315]

I won't be bale to sleep now. I watched some of my replays and I think I use slip angel but not to it's full potential. That's an amazing video. Thanks a lot!

[@garyrowe58]

Without doubt the best explanation I've seen. Well done, and thanks for laying ot out so clearly and succinctly.

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks so much for watching and taking a moment to comment!

[@c0c0asauce]

I used to do this in Ridge Racer for the PSP. Far from a sim but there was little spot before full on drift where the cars would just fly around turns. Now I do it in my Miata :3 I know that sudden grip up from the rear during steady throttle in my 350z too. The original tires were so bad that I underestimated how much understeer I'd gain when I replaced them with a wider but similarly staggered set of wheels. Made it a lot harder to find the line where she dances. This video made me feel validated.

[@gregsonberlin3782]

Thanks a lot for explaining this little „secret“, which is huge for me. Now I can work it out by intention.

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, I hope it helps you find something that you never knew was there. Keep practicing and make sure you have a good setup.

[@gregsonberlin3782]

@@dannyleeracing A good setup is the key for me. Some people claim that practicing is most important, but I can agree only to e certain extent. Without a suitable setup it wouldn’t possible to slip for instance:) Unfortunately it‘s not that easy to find setups for Assetto Corsa. The Setup Market is down :(

[@samueldowney2806]

What a great video. I've always known of slip angle, but never thought about it in such a clear concise way.

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers man, I appreciate the feedback. There are dozens of videos that can go deep into the technicals but I'm really aiming to make things accessible and relatable. From there, people can dive deeper if they want to.

[@ME7_RR3]

Hello Danny. That was a very well done video! As a fellow KZbinr who adds commentary, I know that was a lot of work. Your speech was clear and your word choice was excellent. The way you demonstrated on track what you were describing was also very good. I learned a lot. As you were describing slip angle, I was reminded of a Mario Andretti quote: “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Your video really brought that quote into context for me. I’m coming from the mobile gaming world of Real Racing 3. I’m not even sure if slip angle is possible in the coding of the game I play, but I certainly know about riding the fine line between maximum speed and losing it in a corner. I see it when I’m trying to match people who are 1+ seconds faster than me. A couple of years back I was sure people like that were cheating, but now I realize that they are just faster and I could be too with enough work. Sometimes I pull it off and it’s a rush! Real Racing 3 certainly is not the same as a whole simulator set-up, but I really like it for a mobile game. Maybe someday I will get a simulator set-up but not something I’m doing at this time. Anyhow, I don’t comment on many peoples videos but you did an extremely good job and I know what it’s like to get good feedback. I hope you keep it up because you’re a good teacher.

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, I appreciate you watching and passing on some thoughts - sometimes a video just falls out onto the screen in no time at all, other times it labours - this was one that laboured for sure. I don't plan to stop any time soon as I love to try and get things across in a way that lifts up newcomers or self-confessed 'slow' people and show them things to help them put their passion to the best use. Just remember, there's *always* someone faster.

[@SHRModding]

Yeah I remember that the manual for Geoff crammonds grand prix 3 explained this pretty well. You're pretty much after the perfect balance in every corner. Neither understeer nor oversteer. I think the manual said something like 'in an ideal situation where you had perfect balance you wouldn't have to turn the wheel at all' Really cool stuff and good video too

[@justind.8330]

THANK YOU I saw this video for the first time two years ago, and it led me to a series of discoveries that led me to shave seconds of my laps

[@dannyleeracing]

This is so cool to hear, thank you!

[@BlueDemonGabi]

I remember this one long hairpin in karting track in Hayle where you could take it flatout if you are brave enough. I remember that the back kept stepping out but after few laps I managed to get a really nice slide through that corner. I ended up pulling a time half a second slower than Rosberg’s time.

[@CenturySimRacing]

I love how you've used Pete Harrod as an example of "over doing it" hahaha

[@dannyleeracing]

Haha, nobody would know who it was if you hadn't marked him! #justmclarenthings

[@eliasgill2453]

The best example of this slip angle is Schumacher's hungary pole position with the F2004. One of the greatest laps in history and the most aggressive one by Schumacher

[@thegallantracer5217]

Literally read about this yesterday. Went to click subscribe, but I already was. Good content man. Keep it up. I wanted go learn to setup my own vehicle well. So already ordered going faster and ultimate speed secrets. Learned a ton in just a few pages already

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers mate and thanks for being subscribed and for leaving an early comment. Such a good book!

[@99chrisbling]

Thanks for the video. I always seem to be 2-4 seconds off the fastest laps despite getting all my apex and braking correct. I'd never heard of slip angle, I will definitely try to incorporate this into my driving. Subbed and liked. Thanks again.

[@XxBillyGoatNinjaxX]

This was one of those topics that I noticed myself doing accidentally but is impossible for me to explain. Thanks for the video! Turns out I wasn't crazy

[@colchilibeck]

Nicely done video. Right when I was thinking about trail braking, you brought it up. Now I just need to practice the technique.

[@danielkrzesowski4667]

one of the best driving tip videos I ever seen.

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks man, too kind - I love doing them and the next one is long overdue. Cheers for commenting

[@weedylauda]

Thank you so much for this amazing tip and explanation! I’m exactly one of those you described so I’m eager to focus on this. It’s definitely gold when you point out that slip angle is why you trail brake.

[@dannyleeracing]

Thanks for watching and commenting, I hope it helps you change course a bit if you're stuck in a laptime rut. Let me know if you don't seem to make any progress, don't forget to get yourself a proper setup from the guys that know.

[@freakingfreak77]

Just getting started with sim racing. One of the best video I've watched, thank you a lot!

[@Marco-vp8wl]

Really well explained. I always knew it was a thing and how it approximately worked, but this video deepened my understanding, thanks ^^

[@gaborborsodi5802]

I was never avare of slip angle but as you started to explain I immediately felt the car rotating itself in the corner and realized this is the state I was aiming when I create my setups. This very little oversteer which doesn't really feel as an oversteer because it's very well managable but also makes the car turn on its own. You don't steer but you do.

[@dannyleeracing]

That's spot on man, that's what you're creating with your setups. There are definitely tricks in the setups to giving the car the right amount of slip for the types of corner that count the most at certain tracks. For anyone else like me who can't make a setup, enlist the help of setup shops. The ideal car setup makes it easy to enter slip and hard to overstep it.

[@gaborborsodi5802]

@@dannyleeracing Well if you want to create good setups you can watch youtube vids about it. Thats how i learned it. After a while it's going to be natural what you want to change so you have the best resoult.

[@vitorxd12_81]

me, a controller player: *hm yes slip angle of curse i'll try that*

[@mikblues_146]

You'll manage to do it with enought practice ;)

[@vitorxd12_81]

@@mikblues_146 i've been good this last couple days! i mean, as good as a controller can make me

[@fns58]

Tons of awesome information in 10 minutes. Thank you man, learnt a lot.

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers man, thanks for watching and the kind comment

[@PonyRapperMagro]

being a long time player of rally games/sims this is a concept that i was already familiar with despite not knowing what it was called, since offroad racing absolutely relies on this concept to work at all, so i find it really interesting that basically the same principles apply to track racing, if only on a much smaller scale. These different disciplines have more in common than most of us think i guess lol

[@crizzforsale]

Correct me if I am wrong but this is just getting the car to “rotate” through the the corner. “Slip angle” is the angle between the direction in which a wheel is pointing and the direction in which it is actually traveling. The deformation of the tire patch generates more grip. Different tires like to be driven at different slip angles, for example a 200 utg street tire would achieve maximum grip at a lower slip angle as opposed to a Hoosier R7 which requires to be driven at a more aggressive slip angle to reach peak grip. Understanding the relationship between front and rear tire slip angles will help you understand why a car oversteers or understeers. A good example is getting a car to oversteer slightly through a corner or even just upon corner entry before the car takes a set. This is what many people call “rotation”

[@paulrubens3048]

fantastic! Great presentation. good pace. thank you for NOT using Hillbilly words like "I am going to go ahead and show you..." Great graphics. so so video cause I can't see how much the rear is slipping in most of them.

[@Phychologik]

I actually accidentally learned how to do this. I was playing a game where the steering angle is directly tied to the control stick. Countersteer was almost never worth it and so I learned how to avoid using it altogether. I saw a video on slip angle and was surprised to see it was a technique used for optimal times. Very cool.

[@sandronunes93]

Thanks for that, I sometimes and somehow do the slip without realising and yes always felt quicker. Never ever knew about this, thanks again for your articulate video and explanation

[@dannyleeracing]

Awesome man, cheers for watching and commenting - I hope putting this in your sights gives you a little extra sense of what's happening when you roll it in just right

[@wrxer79]

This explains my turn 1 on Bathurst, hit the brakes at the right point and it just flies round the corner easily..and got me into the late 2.02s...got it a few times just can't get it every lap..I couldn't figure quite what I was doing that gave me a sudden huge chunk of time off my lap. Now I've seen this I now fully understand why, can't wait to get in and now practice more

[@darkcognitive]

Thanks for these videos Danny. I’m new to sim racing and stuff like this is great as you’re talking about concepts I’ve never heard of and would never probably think of all by myself. +Respect!

[@dannyleeracing]

Cheers man, I hope you get up to speed quickly and don't get stuck in a rut - there's always improvements to be made and if you're just starting out they're gonna come thick and fast if you just stick to it. In the end it's all about refining your own race until you can stand yourself up against someone else on the track and have a thrilling fight!

[@darkcognitive]

@@dannyleeracing thanks man. I've just set up my simlabs p1x with tons of mods, trying to set it up so I can do flight Sims with my TM warthog joystick and throttle and rudder pedals, whilst having the ability to slide my seat forward and have access to my wheel , shifter and pedals for racing. I'm almost there though after a ton of tweaking. Only downside to my rig ATM is that I'm using a Logitech g923 wheel and pedals, not the greatest of wheels but I'll be switching to a direct drive asap after the new year and some load cell pedals. Having the ability to remove the wheel is a must for my dual setup. Then it'll just be practise, practise and more practise before playing online.

[@IXPAdragon35]

Just started sim recently, I’ve noticed this as I’m learning, I thought I was doing something wrong, good to hear I should keep attacking as hard as I like to LOL

[@ChrisMoore-fq4mz]

Watched this and the brake bias video earlier. Had a little play with it and immediately shaved a second off my quickest time. Cornering at speed feels so much more fluid and less like I'm fighting it

[@dannyleeracing]

That's awesome man, I love to hear this. Been doing this so long that I forget how big the leaps can be when stuff like this starts getting woven into how you race so thanks for leaving this comment.

[@TheMatadrum]

This is a great application of theory for producing good qualifying times. For racing this can also lead to increased tyre degradation.

[@matthewsparkes3423]

This is awesome! I'm three months into sim racing, it's SO exciting, I've learnt so much and watching my lap times drop. This is something I've noticed in my fastest laps but I've been yet to put a finger on it... So thank you! Actually, I've had a thought that I wonder if anyone could shed some light on. I've noticed that when I trail brake perfectly into a fast corner, I barely need to apply any steering at all, maybe 10 degrees. It's almost like I twitch the wheel and it flies in the right direction like some black magic, whereas if I don't touch the brakes, it might be 15 - 20 degrees of rotation. Does that make sense to anyone?

[@Joshua-zf6zj]

I learned slip angles by playing following the leader. I didn’t know what it was. I was driving so bad at first. I could follow the optimal line, but I was so slow. Any time the rear slipped out, I spun. But all the sudden when I saw that you can swing out a little. I tried to do it in a more subtle fashion and was able to pull it off. I think that’s how it is. You find a driving technique for your level, then you pick up on something new and your driving style evolves, especially when ya get to follow someone whooping your ass. If you’re a beginner and you’re the fastest, you’re at the wrong track and you won’t learn.

[@ojsvids2758]

I do it all the time I just didn't know weather it was good or bad so thank u I actually needed to see this

[@dannyleeracing]

Great, man - I love hearing when people have come out of a video with a lot more certainty or inspiration. Thanks for watchin'

[@uhfrc]

I feel like i'm going as fast as I can with my racing so needed to look at the more advanced techniques, so I ended up here, time to give it a go and see how this helps me in this weekends racing! thanks

[@dannyleeracing]

Just keep adjusting your approach, it's a bit like skiing or mountain biking when you watch people absolutely flying round corners at ridiculous speed with almost no contact with the ground - they had to practice to get that way

[@uhfrc]

@@dannyleeracing Assetto Corsa has an overlay mod which actually shows slip on each of the wheels, this could be useful for training

[@rossimessi1]

@@uhfrc What is the mod called please?

[@uhfrc]

@@rossimessi1 Dude, you can google this!

[@hj-redravenheng3822]

Great tips and explanations Danny - this will be a great help! Sometimes I get the car to rotate properly, other times not... practice will make perfect (I'm only in the starter Mazda in iRacing). Every corner is different (and sim racing is quite a lot different to the real thing where you feel a lot through your seat and the small of your back etc). See you out there!

[@beyondtheapexracing]

Thankyou for making this video, very helpful and now I know why I’m a second slower than the top split guys

[@thepalmpilot3g]

Amazing video. Looking to put this into practice soon!!! Keep up the great work.

[@nth-zone4835]

5:40 Felt like I was watching an Exurb1a video

[@justamanchimp]

The Porsche 911 GT spec car is amazing for learning how to do this because the effect is really pronounced when off the throttle with it being rear engined. This actually ties in massively with the understanding of weight transfer. It's not really trying to drift or oversteer, it's more just using that rear weight and letting it go a little to create the angles you need to get optimal exits. For it to work though you need to start with the right angle in the first place and your steering needs to be good because correcting the steer mid corner will likely throw off the balance and you'll mess it up. Make sure you can hit apexs consistently before trying to learn how to do this or you'll just become a nightmare on track.

[@justamanchimp]

Ahh just watched the whole thing lol he explains what I just said in great detail haha