Dark Depths got broken again... - Modern Horizons 3

Can you believe it, Wizards broke Dark Depths again thanks to Mutated Cultist from MH3 Commander.
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[@graog123]

How can you NOT think of Dark Depths when printing that!? There's simply no way that this interaction wasn't their express intent

[@attackoncardboard]

It's just 30 power worth of creatures on Turn 2 while exile-ing both your lands and being near uncounterable 😂

[@qedproqwo1634]

Also shifting woodlands

[@ameliaward7429]

Oh, you still believe that actual people are playtesting cards. That is kinda sad tbh.

[@androkguz]

Legacy is broken in a myriad ways. You don't playtest for legacy. You just let different broken things duke it out and *maybe* you ban something if it becomes a problem

[@kage9543]

I think they made this card as a way to interact with energy counters since they brought that back

[@whosilence]

Turn 0 gemstone caverns Turn 1 depths, dark ritual, cultist

[@attackoncardboard]

The things you can do in Magical Xmas land! 😂

[@bricknolty5478]

​@attackoncardboard That's only 5 cards in your opening hand, vs your scenario of 5 cards in your opening hand + 1 draw step

[@marcoottina654]

​@@bricknolty5478so you mean ... 4 cards In Both cases?

[@bricknolty5478]

@@marcoottina654 exactly, they're both Magical Christmas Land lol

[@AntonioBaker-q4o]

Tbh I turn 5 dark depths all the time and all it does is have someone work indestructible on a token which is easier done than said

[@gozmit97]

Not to mention the Woodlands can copy depths, sacrifice itself dur to having no counters and also getting you Marit Lage

[@attackoncardboard]

It's all coming together...

[@kylecote7261]

Mirror box, Marit Lage Tribal

[@WitchingMoon88]

Legend rule. Good thought though

[@WitchingMoon88]

Mirror Box would work

[@jiaan100]

​@@WitchingMoon88 The other dark depths is in your gy, legend rule doesn't stop this. Legend rule applies when you copy depths with thespians stage, but you sacrifice the old one with counters to the legend rule and keep the new one, so it still works.

[@Layjus123]

It still dies to removal. By "it" I mean the opponent dies to turn 2 removal.

[@samanderson6488]

Looks like stifles back on the menu boys!

[@attackoncardboard]

"And where did that bring you, back to me."

[@williamdrum9899]

Stifling dark depths does nothing, as it will simply trigger again to create Marit Lage anyway

[@samanderson6488]

@williamdrum9899 you stifle the black creatures ability so it never removes the counters.

[@richardboss2892]

Depths is one of my all-time favorite cards. Any time a new card comes out that works with it is just gravy.

[@mediocritysbest6220]

We did guys. We broke dark depths

[@attackoncardboard]

They can't keep getting away with this!

[@coletrainhetrick]

Took them long enough

[@joed5207]

...again.

[@kirbyhypno2522]

Aside from that use, I'm happy to have a nice and simple way of finally removing experience counters. I always struggle to find cards that assust with that

[@colboy1fish]

When I read the card my first tought was "That works for battles, doesn't it?"

[@marcoottina654]

There is a white cleric doing the same

[@DarthSnugglePuss]

Also removing poison counters from an opponent as a politicking piece!

[@durttheelder4035]

I thought for battles removing the counters doesn't give you the backside you had to kill it in combat ​@@colboy1fish

[@nitramreniar]

Unless color restrictions or fear of counterspells are a concern, suncleanser could already do that and prevent the opponent from gaining any more counters while it's out as well

[@SuperTheNobody]

could also use that cost reduction for a void winnower to invalidate half your opponents cards

[@sethb3090]

Bro I can't even

[@WillRennar]

@@sethb3090 According to the official rulings on the card: *_Yes. We know._*

[@sethb3090]

@@WillRennar but of course

[@dorping_Wolf]

because Hexmage dark depths turn 2 was not strong enough, now you get an ulamog on top of it...

[@nonameimpotantlive9233]

sad banned i mordern noices

[@nitramreniar]

As well as being impossible to counter by conventional means

[@erisdiscordia5429]

Oh shit, my creatureless poison deck just shit itself.

[@attackoncardboard]

You cant target yourself with the Cultist ;)

[@erisdiscordia5429]

Oh wait, lol, you're right, nevermind. My deck will continue eating everyone.

[@kelp-ist3469]

@@erisdiscordia5429they can use it to give one of your opponents another turn or two

[@Anonymous______________]

Modern Horizons 3: Eldrazi Resurgence

[@CrusixOfficial]

after dark depths, and the 10 colours mana deduction, akroma's memorial would win the game on the spot

[@gilliganallmighty3]

Commamder Turn 1: Dark Depths; Lotus Petal; Dark Ritual; Mutated Cultist; Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger.

[@nikolmorith800]

Turn 1: Thespian's Stage, Tap Stage to play Sol Ring Turn 2: Play Dark Depth's, Tap Sol Ring to use Stage to copy Dark Depth and it sacs to become Marit Lage. Turn 3: Watch Marit Lage get turned into a basic land with Path to Exile. Be labeled the Archnemesis rest of game. Lol

[@MithDragon]

I take Depths combos out of my edh decks for this reason. For my Omo deck I swapped out the dark depths for a Mazes end and it works wonderfully as a backup win con rather than a cheese combo I hope to pull off and keep on board for several rotations of attacking.

[@nikolmorith800]

@MithDragon That's pretty awesome. I was looking at using Maze and the Gates for an alt win con. I saw someone using the gates for pretty decent mana acceleration, too. That's what gave me the idea. This makes me want to do it even more. ^.^

[@nitramreniar]

We were talking about Legacy, so with it bei on 1v1 you should probably be considered the archenemy for your opponent from the very beginning

[@MithDragon]

@@nitramreniarwho was taking about legacy here? Even the video is about commander and so was this OP.

[@nitramreniar]

​@@MithDragon where did you get the idea from, that the short is talking about commander?? He literally sais "in legacy you go..." before describing the interaction...

[@rowdyzack5914]

Ahhh yes a perfectly fair game of Magic the Gathering 😊

[@einsUNDcolt]

And this is why WotC needs to print more stifle effects

[@439801RS]

Or just think for a second...

[@fluffybunnyz285]

Looks pretty good but you could also do shenanigans with spirit guide and some low mana cost or free artifacts to play the delirium emrukul takes opponents turn waste whatever things they have attack into your big boys and give them an empty board

[@rac2300]

Marit Lage is an eldrazi confirmed? Lol

[@JohnRNewAccountNumber3]

Marit Lage or not, the Cultist is absolutely broken.

[@oelboy]

I wouldn't call this broken. The loss of consistency when watering down a streamlined DD deck with Cultist and random Eldrazi is way too high.

[@berto6050]

Throw in a solemnity, works too. Take Nine Lives while you're at it. Then a Luminous Broodmoth for creatures that only exile will get rid of

[@colinlinvill1310]

Ahh, finally... player removal.

[@jj209th6]

Why they didn’t specify a permanent an opponent controls is beyond me. This is clearly meant to be a way to interact with energy counters since it was released in the same set as a bunch of energy support, but it also works great against problematic planeswalkers or +1/+1 counter heavy decks. Allowing you to drain your own counters was a terrible idea.

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Draining your own counters is clearly intended as a downside which gives you a proportional upside. Blame dark depths being one of the only cards in the game where counters are detrimental and losing them is beneficial.

[@researchinbreeder]

It also released in a precon. Dark Depths is literally a card in another of the precons. This wasn't an accident, idk why people act like it was. Edit: The deck with DD in it also has Thespian Stage. Genuinely, they intended to give ppl Dark Depths combo pieces

[@ryanmann5497]

Whoever does this is going to be salty af when I path to exile it 😂

[@attackoncardboard]

Can't path it if Ulamog eats your lands 😂

[@attackoncardboard]

@@sablesalt Do *you* know what an On Cast Trigger is?

[@attackoncardboard]

@@sablesalt but Hunger does, mate. Would be wild if I included that Ulamog in the video.

[@cassiuspeter9673]

I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Cultist is 3 mana, but for turn 2, we have 1 land and dark depths, which doesn't tap for ... oh, right. Yavimaya makes dark depths tap for mana.

[@dardanfougere4532]

I think in commander this could be a fun tech in a black green counter deck remove a ton of +1/+1 counters to play your win condition

[@thecraftyarmy8223]

In my 60 card snow deck this card is such an awesome tech just being able to immediately on summon remove counters from depths to get a 20/20 token with flying and indestructible!! and top of all that makes my Rimefeather Owl go from 7 mana to just two when I cast it!!

[@noadaenderninja]

I have this combo in my commander deck, its funny when people dont expect you to cast a 2 mana Ema at flash speed.

[@I3astion]

This might be my Meren fanboy nature talking.. but yes.. use it for Dark Depths please.. Definitely not to reset any commander using experience counters

[@cmattss4]

A combo that requires you to have 5 pieces in hand turn 1? This doesn't seem consistent enough to be threatenubg at all. Most people trying to play this deck are going to end up with 2 cultists in hand and no Dark Depths, or 3 huge eldrazi in hand and no way to play them.

[@sirplayalot11x]

Why not just dark depths, mox diamond, pitch a card, dark ritual, new card, ulamog and marit lage :3

[@dustinwrightson7447]

Turn one dark depths turn two swamp play dark ritual then play mutation cultists then target dark depths there two turn 20/20 monster

[@kalamander8563]

Wait, this also hits experience counters, doesn't it? I think that's the first card that does so?

[@attackoncardboard]

Mutated Cultist can remove your opponents experience counters!

[@sorin_markov]

Suncleanser

[@kalamander8563]

@@sorin_markov I didn't even know about this card. Very cool!

[@speedinggnu6596]

Newest ulamog because of the ward. Indestructible is cool but swords and path still get by

[@legendsofmichael4315]

Eldrazi are just so broken

[@gavin93100]

this and vexing puzzle box from baldurs gate

[@bluntlord1242]

Awsome combo but why Mutated Cultist is not legal in Modern? New card form new Modern set is not Modern legal so stiupid. Iff they decide to make Commander decks in Modern set they shuld at least make cards from this decks Modern legal.

[@attackoncardboard]

Dark Depths isn't Modern legal either, hence why I say "in Legacy". Do you also hold that sentiment for the Commander decks that release with the standard sets?

[@kennethterrell1167]

I drafted dark depths and was able to summon merit leige just before dying.

[@kennethterrell1167]

I guess I should have mentioned from Cold Snap

[@bounceday]

Turn 2! If this isnt power creep what is

[@Riley_k10]

I will be stacking my deck to do this

[@LucasMacedoAlbuquerque]

Looks like a yugioh combo

[@attackoncardboard]

Thankfully, as powerful as it looks, this particular combo isn't too competitive 😅

[@januszo.2180]

Great! Adding it to cube

[@deeterful]

Best be packing Stifle.

[@tyrannicalmuffin1442]

The doom of worlds wakes once more!

[@Nuzzlock08]

I don’t play legacy, is stifle or any stifle like effects legal?

[@attackoncardboard]

Stifle is definitely legal in Legacy. If this combo becomes more apparent, Stifle play will certainly rise.

[@matthewutech5970]

Stifle effects are legal, but weren't that commonly used outside of stifle-naught '2 mana 12/12 and Delver 'one mana monoblue land destruction'

[@xxmeizterxx]

Not sure but I think Stifle still negates Dark depths

[@attackoncardboard]

That's correct :)

[@keiharris332]

The thwomp sound lok

[@livedandletdie]

This is why Stifle is cheap.

[@nathaniellazo5912]

Excuse me, WHAT?!!!

[@BackroomBandit]

Yea i see no issue with this.

[@dtstar331]

I guess we're about to enter Stifle meta

[@barryberg2944]

Why not just a normal forest instead of yavimaya

[@attackoncardboard]

If we played a normal Forest, Dark Depths won't be able to produce mana. It has no mana abilities otherwise.

[@coltonkinder1424]

Thanks for the tip. I'm not crazy about the timing, but I wouldn't object to this a little later in the game with Crop Rot backup. Essentially 8 copies of Hexmage.

[@tychoMX]

Damn. I thought "big deal, hexmage same thing". But this is on cast... yikes. Eat my shorts, Force of Will.

[@sebbbi2]

We already had Urborg + Dark Depths + Vampire Hexmage on turn 2. One less card. New card is 1 more mana but uncounterable effect. But we already had better uncounterable combo with Thespian’s Stage. Both fetchable with Crop Rotation at instant speed for EOT 20/20 -> win. I don’t think anybody will play this in Legacy.

[@windiesel2826]

Good thing they play Stifle in Legacy...

[@EldritchReyes]

As a reminder there are spells that counter triggers and I use them in decks, when I'm feeling mean I'll do it on crack land trigger because that will send the land to the bin and stop them from looking for the extra land

[@PraskaBruce]

Is it just me or is it ridiculous how everybody seems to think that this card is absolutely busted with dark depths even though in formats like legacy there are cards such as I don't know stifle

[@attackoncardboard]

"Dies to removal" has always been a very good argument for powerful creatures... 😏

[@PraskaBruce]

@@attackoncardboard that's not what I mean. With the trigger on the stack you cast stifle. Then the creature resolves and nothing to worry about funny enough stiflenought decks have a frightening advantage over the legacy meta why there isn't more of those styles of decks is truly beyond me.

[@toddpacker1015]

@@PraskaBruceit’s 40 power on the board with 2 triggered abilities one stifle will do nothing

[@PraskaBruce]

@@toddpacker1015 you can't be soo dumb THAT'S IF THE ability resolves stifle would stop the ability

[@samanderson6488]

​@toddpacker1015 you stifle the cast trigger to remove counters. Now they have a 3 drop a land with 10 counters still and no way to cast their ulamog.

[@doctorexam6164]

Stifle is definitely going to be used more

[@matthewsawczyn6592]

I mean, at this point there are 40,000 cards... I can't blame Wizards for having to keep track of all the possible combos... (the solution is to print less cards, Hasbro)

[@TheArctus]

Definitely not broken. This is a 3 card combo that requires 2 of the 3 pieces to be dark depths (a land that taps for 0 mana) and this guy who sucks without depths, and the third card being something 8 cmc+ you couldn't cast without the combo. It's way easier to just run Cloudpost...

[@maxmustermann1111]

Is it though? Making lage fast is not at all the issue of depth decks. Another existing line would be: forest, exploration, depth into thespian stage, land, activate. The issue is that the 20/20 is too easy to answer these days. Yeah the nutdraw with ulamog is crazy, but if you get interacted with its a dead card. Among all the other stuff that is happening, this seems nowhere near „broken“. Im not sure Slotting in 4 „i win harder“ cards and another 4 options to make lage even improve the build as is.

[@schaedli177]

or if you have ONE spare red mana available somehow you could try to fling lage in the enemy face just winning right there

[@attackoncardboard]

Fling and Lage have been in Legacy for ages, if it's not a thing now, this new combo doesn't add anything more.

[@legitanator]

Yeah If you think this is bad have fun playing against blue green MH3 precon and having dark depths pop like every other game.

[@addieee333]

this just will not see play in legacy (which you mentioned). this costs 1 more mana than hexmage, and is not a land (like thespian's stage), which are the two things it competes with. furthermore, the mana cheating clause is near useless unless you're putting uncastable cards in your deck like ulamog or whatever garbage doesnt work without this card, where youre unnecessarily adding a c to your a +b combo.

[@TempestDacine]

Mh2 was a watershed moment for power creep and some of it can be excused as pushing limits and testing boundries. Mh3 is so blatantly intentional in its power creep itd make yugioh blush. Actually disgusting.

[@X20Adam]

Why exactly are they printing multiple cards that can remove counters from opponents? Kelsian, The Plague is very upset 😢

[@TheJuggtron]

Everything is wrong with this card. Why is it so cheap, why is it an on cast effect, why is it able to target permanents you control, why is it tough? Wizards has no idea what theyre doing.

[@opo33333]

It's not really broken for legacy, since you already could do the same with thespian stage. It only gets good if you can follow it up with a ulamog or something, which often doesn't matter when part of the combo is already putting lethal on board

[@Lunamowon]

Wow edh players are discovering a worse version of hexmage which isn't evdn playable in legacy anymore!!! How insane.. istg

[@hastur2905]

isn't that too weak for legacy?

[@attackoncardboard]

😂 T2 is fine. This isn't vintage

[@androkguz]

No. It's good for legacy. Perfect hands will keep winning games in legacy but the better decks are the ones that are most consistent or can survive disruption or can deny other combos. This one is ... Consistent enough by t3, probably.

[@josephstrouth519]

It's not really good in legacy. It'll be fine. Making a 20/20 at sorcery speed and then passing the turn withou5 crop rotation for protection is worse than what people are already doing with dark depths.

[@androkguz]

@@josephstrouth519 a 20/20 indestructible and a 10+/10+ with ward And you can still protect the token with Not of This World It's very strong for legacy. The problem for me is that it's the pipe dream

[@noahfriedrich4686]

It's not better that the already existing dark Depths decks. Plus dumping the 10 mana into a Ulamog is a waste, something like lightning greaves or akromas memorial for protection and haste is a way better option so you don't have to pass the turn, just win instead

[@TheKillerman3333]

Meanwhile i am overhere using it to remove counters from my story time deck. All enchantments are story enchantments.

[@l0lan00b3]

I was just talking to a guy on R about the sphinx/flash build. Too funny

[@iratebeaver29]

If this isnt commander, why not just end the game, do akroma's memorial instead, so your stuff gets haste and dome them with lage.

[@jumpkicking]

Dark Depths is in the deck, it was intended. It's a "competitive" precon...

[@maidonopai]

This is to funny i would put it in my green blue deck and hope i have my card that says lands are all basic land types and play this😂

[@saw8814]

Yes but making Marit Lage is better at instant speed so I think only 1 or 2 copies will make the 75

[@Captain69Spaulding]

Do you even play legacy? Its a nice video but thats commander stuff :)

[@Sivarias]

This doesn't do anything More for 3 mana that urborg and vampire hexmage does for 2

[@RustedKing]

Using the new simic precon I got a marit Lage out turn 4, then got a 2nd one after the first died

[@0011peace]

Dark Depths should have been banned al lonf timie e ago its stupid card to begin with

[@sergeiyamagoro431]

This happens, but the most important thing was depriving my super slow Boros vehicle deck of the Mana Crypt that I spent money to get.

[@attackoncardboard]

You can still play that card at casual events and rule 0 it with your play group.

[@MarcDobby]

Why not just cast lightning greaves for free and then swing in for 20 on turn 2?

[@riku2193]

Stifle stonks?

[@attackoncardboard]

📈

[@vintageman91]

Another card to put my Marit easily onto the field 😁

[@blackwingdragonmasta]

That's just a slightly worse vampire hexmage

[@godoy_]

Saw this happened in my commander pod last time I played, was not good

[@squidguy7907]

This is also 5 cards, two of which are either bad, or very intractable

[@DekoMice]

Defabricate

[@attackoncardboard]

"Dies to removal"

[@badz_unicorn4044]

What commander you recommend for this build ?

[@andykapsar4667]

who needs green? straight black can still so it turn 2 with a dark ritual

[@AliceIzuragi6291]

FUCK. why isnt this in arena. id kill for that card

[@Quiron1985]

Never stopped playing Stifle...

[@LilSchassJP]

MTG is slowly getting into the yugioh of turn one games

[@mathieuroy1802]

Turn 1 dark depts, turn 2 vesuva, 20/20 flying indestructible. But yours is better since you can cast something afterwards

[@attackoncardboard]

Unfortunately, due to copy effects, Vesuva *will* also enter with 10 ice counters, so no 20/20. The land you're looking for is Thespian's Stage.

[@joshdavis3743]

I don't think this will see much play.

[@ssoftpaw8863]

We did it guys we broke dark depths

[@Exile559]

Dark depths has always been broken.

[@tako4316]

And copy landx for the blue players