Dark Souls Lore - Primordial Serpents

Dark Souls Lore - Primordial Serpents Frampt & Kaathe
Now, who is going to draw me some fan-art of Aldia wrestling these snake lads?
#darksouls
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[@ISayEssays]

I am starting to think that I have everlasting dragons all wrong. I assumed that everlasting equates to unchanging... but what if dragons naturally mutate to fit their environment. For example, we have Midir and Kalameet who've taken on dark aspects, various undead dragons in ds1, and not to mention the gaping dragon who seemingly morphed solely due to his fixation on hunger. The dragon form is so mutable that you can become one yourself as shown in the path of the dragon. So, the question becomes why are the everlasting dragons all depicted the same way if they can change their forms, and why does a dragon like Seath exist? I believe the first flame and souls may hold the key. For an organism to alter its form it requires a tremendous amount of energy, and possessing this energy opens up the possibility that said organisms may change further. I submit that the dragons once utilizing this energy to achieve their everlasting form cast it aside to make the change permanent. This energy gathered in a forgotten corner of the world and coalesced into the first flame...the first soul. As for Seath, the infinite mutability of dragons leaves them opening to developing defects... to which Seath had so many he could not withstand the physical stresses necessary to change his form. However, Seath's adeptness at magic provides evidence he and other dragons share a link to the first flame. Aside from the circular argument of dragons breathe fire, fire is created by a mass of souls, and we've only seen dragons with souls breathe fire or use another form of elemental attacks. The fact that Seath schooled the original lords on to how best utilize their souls to kill the dragons, speaks to me that he was familiar with the power of souls long before the first flame ever came about. I believe a soul represents the power or alter oneself and the world around them, which is supported by both the leveling up mechanic and the boss soul transposition mechanic. I believe souls emerged after the dragons cast them aside to make themselves and the world everlasting, which them coalesced into the first flame, which was then used by the lords. With the propagation of souls, some managed to make it back into the hands of dragons, but this soul would be a mere fragment of what it had before, causing the dragon's inevitable change to downgrade it into weaker forms such as drakes. As for why the dragon of ash lake has not suffered mutation to the extent of his kin, I think there is a lack of stimuli to inspire a change, as ash lake is fairly similar to the habitat of the original everlasting dragons. But since he likely bears a soul, that energy which creates change gets let out through those who come into prolonged contact with him, i.e. path of the dragon members. And perhaps Primordial Serpents were the everlasting dragons quick enough to move underground when gods and men moved above, requiring a transitionary phase where they had some contact with humans, changing them into a form which could persuade/manipulate humans more effectively, I mean the simple fact that our pc does not immediately recognize Frampt or Kathe as a threat indicates some passive familiarity with them that has probably existed for 1000's of years.

[@river7874]

That could also explain why some humans/hollows, mainly the Pilgrims of Londor, when keeping their soul/corruption/power to change under wraps for so long they eventually break free from their mortal shackles and become something Angel like.

[@SplitWasTaken]

@@river7874 Hypothesis: keeping in mind the cyclical nature of the Souls' universe, I claim that humans begin changing into serpents as they are consumed by humanity with the coming of the age of dark, eventually becoming dragons, which are not necessarily shaped as conventional dragons, but abominations, beasts akin to those in Bloodborne, awaiting for the coming of the next age of fire. I also claim that the old blood is nothing but blood which carries the dark soul of man, thus turning those who consume it.

[@JimothyTheGreen]

If we take that the primordial serpents are in fact the ‘dragons’ that went underground upon the beginning of the war with the lords then we can take that they saw the lords and humanity as a problem but wanted to take an indirect approach to it and this leads them to become what we see in Dark Souls. However might I suggest it was only one dragon and that the primordial serpents are in fact one great disturbing hydra? The idea is interesting. Considering the area that Frampt takes the chosen undead to to place the lordvessel seems to be far far below ground it may well be at a similar level as the Abyss which would mean Kaathe and Frampt could indeed be connected to the same body along with the other heads we see later. To clarify I’m not saying that they’re in league with each other but the way Kaathe speaks about Frampt gives a feeling of a disagreement between friends or family rather than outright hostility.

[@briancooley8777]

I see the primordial serpents more like baby dragons (or dwarfs) kinda like how a caterpillar turns into a butterfly. They are trying to create the right environment for them to transform into the next generation of dragons. They literally ARE dragons but are just still in their wyrm stage

[@ISayEssays]

@@briancooley8777 Lets hope we never see Seath's baby photos lol.

[@Syntherus]

The biggest crime of Dark Souls 3 was not including the serpents physically.

[@livingbeing1113]

Agreed. DS3 is a masterpiece and my favorite, but leaving out these weird grinning creatures was unfortunate.

[@jacobhoover1654]

It's because they are both dead during the time of DS3

[@linkwolf2196]

@@jacobhoover1654 really how

[@jacobhoover1654]

@@linkwolf2196 Midir, it's how he got his name "Dark Eater" & got corrupted.

[@linkwolf2196]

@@jacobhoover1654 ohhh

[@danknightk6987]

To think that these massive serpents have a body somewhere down the abyss is just terrifying

[@Blightblues7]

I know they are a bunch of lying toothy serpents, but they just have such a trustworthy flesh mustache.

[@SilverMont]

Don't trust anyone with a flesh moustache.

[@Gamefreak2998]

They're adorable though OwO

[@rez4746]

Best comment

[@SirPream]

Fleshstache is best truststache

[@Blightblues7]

I've always loved the serpents, they seem to just be simple lore dumps when you first play but if you look into it you find out that they are manipulating you to suit their own motives. I really like the idea the create with the serpents of a large overreaching conspiracy that you have no way of escaping, link the fire or not you're doing what a serpent wants and to what end we will never know.

[@kahuna253]

Artorias: The abyss is running rampant, wouldn’t know anything about that would y- Kaathe: NO! WHY?

[@SilverMont]

Kaathe has a real long neck, which means he's always in chopping range.

[@hubertcalculus34]

Artioias: Let us make a suspesious convenant so I can get all up in the abyss' @$$hole.

[@jwho39]

@@hubertcalculus34 Kaathe: There is nothing about that sentence that I don't love.

[@DarkBloodSouls]

Apparently Kaathe was to make an appearance in DS3 but was cut out. Shame

[@SemNome-ds1qy]

There are many plots without a ending, for example: Aldia, the profane flame, the abyss, the deeps and others...

[@SplitWasTaken]

@kristoffer kulju plunge down a well... fight something epic... Midir

[@Caine187]

M EM the abyss was resolved in 2 with the queens

[@NanashiAkai]

Where did you find the info of kaathe being in ds3?

[@DarkBloodSouls]

Wolf Raiser The Witch of Time cut content and datamining. Look for a guy called Lance McDonald

[@oshayc5098]

I showed this to my snake, now he's a primordial serpent

[@SilverMont]

Oh dear

[@bungiecrimes7247]

Can he vore me owo

[@exogenesis9112]

Dark souls remaster woke up my primordial serpent

[@sandroguzelj1234]

but does it have a glorious flesh mustache?

[@exogenesis9112]

Sandro Guzelj the most glorious flesh moustache the world will ever see

[@FD36]

@@exogenesis9112 foreskin nation

[@barbecueswithsauce4178]

#freetheprimordialserpent

[@bungiecrimes7247]

Rip

[@Monu73796]

More accurate translation of their name in the Japanese script is "World Serpents"

[@rueceless7580]

Fitting given the Norse influences in Dark Souls 1

[@Knights_of_the_Nine]

Monu Jormungandr

[@brimstonesulfur5013]

Rue Celess Norse, Christen, Zoroastrian, Greek and even Japanese lore are all over in Dark souls

[@elkmeatenjoyer3409]

Usually a lot is lost in translation but I believe "primordial" sounds more ancient and misterious.

[@kg30004]

Much lamer name than primordial

[@THEO00900]

In my opinion the 2 serpents are inspired by Demigorgon. A twoheaded primordial demon of chaos. One head works to cause destruction and death while the other lies and betrayal. Each head hates the other and seeks to destroy it in secret. If our two toothy snakes are inspired by this then wouldnt it be reasonable if they try to create a war between light and dark to cause chaos but also each one hate you if you join the other's side?. Lastly, imagine if Frampt was the one who scared Gwyn into creating the cycle of pain due to rekindling the Flame.

[@mateusfolletto6142]

But the ending of the first game shows 10 snakes. 5 Demigorgons or 1 hydra?

[@MogulMogul]

​@@mateusfolletto6142 Why not both? A Hydragorgon!

[@mateusfolletto6142]

@@MogulMogul 😂

[@tonesdad0408]

Some of the most fascinating characters in all Dark Souls! The fact that there are several that aren't even addressed peaks my curiosity to no end. What are they and what do they look like? How old are they? Are they all connected to a massive body??? Someone please answer these lingering questions, preferably From Software.

[@jacksonnoback9976]

SINISTER OBLITERATION dark souls 3 ringed city shows all set pants are connected to a body(the statues by Midir Hole). It is suggested that the other serpents have sided with Kaathe since we see all of them during the during the Dark Lord ending. Along with Dark Souls 3 with the church that Yuria and her sisters serve including one sister after killing saying “I have failed thee Kaathe”.

[@tonesdad0408]

@@jacksonnoback9976 Even if so, its a curious thing that the heads are all independent of each other. I'm not putting as much stock into that as I would prefer a concrete explanation. Even in the world of Dark Souls, some things are fleshed out and not left to obscurity and interpretation. That being said, I recently completed the Dark Lord ending and noticed that the narrating serpent claims Frampt AND Kaathe are with him. As there were two rows of serpents on either side I wondered if each side represented the connected heads of both. Which would explain why he said only Frampt and Kaathe, even though there were clearly more serpents bowing down. Just my thought.

[@eliasbonafe9236]

The Ringed City showed black on white how they looks like. So they are not a unique body with two head. Futhermore we could have assumed this since Ds1. In fact, if you search "primordial serpent model" with Google you can find their Ds1 model. You can easily see how they have shoulder and chest :)

[@DragonKnightX12]

@@eliasbonafe9236 I disagree. The Ringed City shows a different interpretation of how they thought the Serpents looked. I think what was really meant to be gathered here is that Frampt and Kaathe have been manipulating these civilizations.

[@keeganwullaert4996]

@@DragonKnightX12 Especislly considering ds2 has a different statue of the serpents too

[@nastrael]

"The first Man, being called *Man*us" That would be fine, if "manus" didn't already have a meaning. That being "hand" in Latin. Which is a pretty obvious reference to his gigantic tumor-covered hand that he uses to yoink the PC on two occasions and constantly smash you into the ground during the fight. Unless you're saying that's also a subversion.

[@SilverMont]

The hand explanation fits him to a T and is my preferred way of looking at it. The "man" part is largely a funny/interesting coincidence to me.

[@dantex8983]

Manus/Manusya is the Sanskrit word for human.

[@bungiecrimes7247]

It's like he was distended to have a jerk off arm

[@enderbalrog]

It just occurred to me that at the end of time, Slave Knight Gael consumes what's left of the Dark Soul, taking on what's left of it. We can all agree that this is the closest thing to the Dark Soul made whole once again, albeit somewhat weakened. Now I wonder if Gael was all along the Dark Lord Kaathe searched for?

[@berosar]

i thought we were supposed to be the dark soul in the end. killing everything and consuming them and than using our dark soul to power the fire( or pick another ending)

[@Kid_Naps]

I love Kaath's voice, so original, so DARK, so tempting ... plip plop

[@zerothehero123]

A lot of elements of dark souls lore are deliberately 'odd', or somewhat phenomenological to resemble and mimic the mystical elements of mythology. Like a scholar researching greek mythology, the world of dark souls is supposed to offer you a mythological point of view into a world, not a literal one. A view that at the surface seems fantastical, as if the 'myths are true kind of vibe'. Pe the fact that the primordial serpents seem to come from nothing or their weird anatomy. It's supposed to edge on surreality because that's what's so gripping, so mysterious, about mythology. You as the player are the archaeologist of the world and mythology of dark souls. You can study the roman empire, explore it's myths, examine it's architecture, but you'll never experience what it's like to actually be a roman. And so in dark souls you see the aftermath of a world come and gone. A post apocalyptic age of melancholy remains, with only hints of lore to give you some sense of what transpired in lordran so long ago. It's truly brilliant.

[@cadarn1274]

Perhaps Primordial Serpents are to Everlasting Dragons what Humans/ Undead are to the Gods. As suggested by the ring description, there are many similarities. Both Serpents and humans are weaker and less beatiful (both have similar wrinkly skin) than Dragons and Gods, but seem more able to survive changes in the cycle. On this latter point note that almost all the Dragons and Gods died when their ages came to an end, but the Serpent and Humans seem to be able to survive in any age. Evidence for this is that "primordial" implies the Serpents were around in the age of Dragons and there are also many of them in the dark ending of DS1, yet humans are also around during the age of dragons in the form of the pygmies we see in the opening cinematic. Gods are generally assumed to be just humans/ Pygmies who gained lord souls and became something greater. It could be that Dragons are just Serpents who managed to gain dragon scales (like Dragon Path covenant members). By members of lesser race (like humans) trying to become a higher being of the other race (dragons), or vice versa with Serpents and Gods, you end up producing many of the in game abominations.

[@Syntherus]

If we're talking about one of the serpents appearing as an angel, Gertrude was visited by an angel, causing her to found the Winged Knights and their religion.

[@UnholyWrath3277]

Just a note about ur archives. Look from the anor Londo bonfire going up to the cathedral u see lothric castle built around the archives. Play the remaster and look at the same exact spot and lothric castle is built entirely around the Duke's archives. It's the same archives they just did some work and turned it into a kingdom

[@Mrkabrat]

I remenber reading somewhere that one of the original optional endings was going to an area full of primordial serpents and slaying them. For this you'd have to find Gwyns ghost/spirit in Irythil and he would give you a token, by which you could chose not to fight the Lord of Cinder and go to that Primordial serpent world. As of now, I think it's the serpents just toying with everyone to further their goals, maybe by creating new ages they could become perfect, dragons finally.

[@stardustcrusader7506]

Very interesting thought, can you tell, me the link of this ending

[@ThePhysicsGun]

One of my favorite Souls elements that never gets talked about. Let's goooooo.

[@doopmachine]

homie i'mma get my primordial serpent up in Gwynevere's Bountiful Sunlight

[@SilverMont]

I don't think you can

[@charliefoot6117]

You didn't mention the dragon-like statues in the Ringed City by Midir's room, that have Primordial serpent heads!

[@robadobflob2320]

I gotta be in the mood for a lore video, and boy was I waiting for a moment like today to sit back, relax, and watch another beloved Silver Mont lore video. I can't get enough of these, and I'm so glad you're doing more, Alex! Keep it up.

[@BusinessRaptor520]

There is no path. Beyond the scope of light, beyond the reach of dark, what could possibly await us? And yet we seek it, insatiably. Such is our fate.

[@coreytrevor1920]

I love this channel so much. It was the first dark souls lore channel I found and it made the game make sense finally. Thanks for the great videos

[@dentalcommander7082]

I appreciate your souls lore videos so much thank you for making them...

[@jamaln9056]

My theory is that humanity and the old gods are all pawns on the chess board for the primordial serpents. They're playing a game, and both light and dark are in their control, as opposing yet equal sides.

[@TheDark10003]

The way I see it: 1. The relationship between the serpents and humans is greed, after all throughout every game you fight monumentally powerful beings to become stronger yourself. As for their origins they might be thought to be able to become dragons because of the wings but due to their size they aren't able to fly but instead took to the Earth to avoid dragons which might be their natural predator(which would explain why frampt would side with gwynn but still serve the dark lord) 2. Manus may be more like a force of nature than a person as the ringed city does seem to suggest that half light(the spear of the church npc) may become Manus 3. It said that soul stream was an heirloom of aldia's which means that the first sholar of the archives may be a descendent of his that follows his belief. 4. Finally, I think that it is mentioned in some items that pontiff serves Aldrich meaning that he is the potential aldia descendent I mentioned that sought a third option: the deep sea which he attempts to sway lothric to help him make a reality by waiting out the age of fire and guarding the kiln. His disfigurement may have been caused by experiments similar to aldia's. I just think this is likely because Aldrich is under his personal guard as he grows in strength, yhorm is in the profaned capital near irythill which is treacherous, as he would know since he found the profaned flame and probably felt that no one would make it through and the princes are guarded by the dancer. The only Lord's of cinder not in his pocket are the watchers which wouldn't cooperate as they hate the abyss and ludlith who as a pygmy, crestfallen Lord would not be able to resist either way.

[@TheDark10003]

I do agree with you on the pus of man and midir however as I see no other suitable explanation. But I do think that there is an evolution and therefore mating process with the dragons as they change not only looks but mechanics from game to game, which could also explain the Drake's and serpents. The latter of which becomes prey

[@risktorise2103]

Man those teeth, i rarely afraid of any horror games but those teeth so unsettling ๏╭╮๏

[@xuanathan]

If only there were some “Primordial Toothbrush” for them to use

[@meister1169]

Oh you don't know how long I've waited for this. Thank you man!

[@Gakusangi]

Maybe Midir is one of those dragons created with a powerful soul? Like the one from Dark Souls 2 being created from a Giant's soul? Would explain why he has one and is therefore weak against the Abyss.

[@SilverMont]

To some extent that would make sense, but the game seems to be suggesting that Midir's "soul" has memories that are from the very beginning, older than anything we can compare with. Unless that is just a throwaway line to reference King's Field.

[@itsnotbloodborne1237]

This is incredibly well put together

[@killervic7379]

Great work as always

[@MassiveKreutz]

Yes!! I've been looking for some lore on them!

[@MikaelDryden]

Nice channel icon you've got there.

[@krusader9508]

I like how ironic it is that the most nightmarish creatures in the entire series are both friendly NPCs.

[@mannymoreno3094]

You sir have gained a subscriber. Great video! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@semicharmedkindofguy3088]

Biggest mysteries in the souls series are the serpents, along with velka, and maybe shalquoir the cat.

[@Anon26535]

You know, i could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure their names are a reference to Peter Frampton and Terry Kath, two famous rock guitarists from the 70s.

[@JacobCross17]

Before I started my second journey in DS3 after two years on my first save file, I took notice of some of the statues in the Ring City, they where Primordial Serpents, but they had bodies, almost mole-like, with what looked like scales of some kind. As for Manus, I have a bit of an idea about him, and probably what he may have looked like before the Abyss corrupted him, or he corrupted it, eitherway, I think Manus lead the Ring Kings alongside Gwyn’s Army, because his body does resemble a Darkwraiths, which resemble the Ring Knights. Manus is also most likely the Furtive Pygmy as well, because if he was really among the other Pygmy Lords, maybe we would have notice, but no, the Furtive Pygmy would have been more then a lord, a father to the Pygmy. But something happened to him, laying in a grave, someone put him there, the darkness began to emanate from him, turning the abyss wild, once more, if he was buried, it should have been in the Ring City, not in some dark void. There are a lot of unanswered questions, but enough to peace together to give up an almost entire picture...

[@darthreaper6311]

Manus isn't furtive pygmy he was just a pygmy lord. I love the Ashen Hollow's theory that the Witch of Izalith is the furtive pygmy. It is a very long video but has extremely interesting points to back it up

[@Nhileishere]

I've practiced their voices for sometime I really love their speech. Also nice research about how that snake almost has Kaathe's name in jungle book!

[@Bhearu]

I always personally thought of the serpent like immortal beings who are simply bored, weather the age are fire or dark they could survive either way, both serpants you encounter being simply curious about how events will play out and thereby using the player as a form of entertainment.

[@yourschosen5868]

Great video!

[@Luke-kx5mf]

I am pleased to see you well

[@hydrasent563]

I like to imagine frampt and kaathe are the same guy and hes just fucking with us

[@rlyehtenant5651]

This reminds me of the one of my favorite speculative videos from you, the Kalameet one. Seath, as I understand it, was born from the first flame, alongside with other dragon descendants, who had all sorts of deviances, but not the stone scales (Kalameet, btw, looks like one of these deviants). If primordial serpents has some affinity to the abyss, they're also a product of the first flame, as there was no disparity before. Oh, and "The End of Fire" is the closest thing to the dark ending. No matter if, in the future, overflow of the dark will bring back the flame. Killing the firekeeper and taking the flame will only make the Ashen one support the Sun (in a shitty, but certainly beautiful state) by his existence, bringing him closer to Gwyn's nature more than anything.

[@lortsilk6416]

So what if the primodial serpents are the undead Version of the Ancient Dragons( not the rotten we find ingame) that being immortal means their just not able to go Hollow. This would mean that after gwyn etc killed the dragons they came back to live in a serpent form and now try to get back a status of the world which is like the Age of ancients so they can regain their old form

[@briancooley8777]

LortSilk that sounds plausible

[@omarsameh5007]

karth doesn't usher the age of dark but age of the abyss , 4 kings could be listen to karth and get consumed by the abyss which is why you meet him there , so think about first flame and chaos flame and opposite of them would be dark and abyss

[@simonyang231]

Holy shit! I haven't seen your vid yet. So quick comments- good to see your stuff again after a few months

[@SilverMont]

Huh, I have been putting up videos the last few months! Just not seen 'em? Or not been getting notifications? I hear KZbin can do that.

[@simonyang231]

@@SilverMont could be the issue cause its KZbin, but in any case good to know your still putting stuff up

[@CodyPeacecraft]

Yes! Ive been awaiting this video

[@OldManMcLoyf]

*There are Primordial Serpent statues above boss fight against the Asylum Demon, two can also be seen outside of the boss fight, to the left and right of the room. While they certainly seem a bit different than the ones we know, they could be younger versions, as they match the statues we see in DS3’s Ringed City, in terms of posture at least.*

[@w4r936]

Top 10 Dark Souls Mustaches.

[@SilverMont]

Onion Lad had a good one

[@TrueShuraGuitar]

#10 frampt #9 frampt #8 frampt #7 frampt #6 frampt #5 frampt #4 frampt #3 frampt #2 frampt #1 onion lad

[@w4r936]

You forgot Kaathe.

[@redpantera3595]

He is back ^-^

[@thomabow8949]

I always figured that fire was change, and the everlasting dragons had either overcome its effects (its lure, perhaps), or were unaware of it. And Gwyn and his progeny and those who took on the Lord Souls, came from their decrepit state not benefiting from the age of Arch Trees and the mist, and the fire allowed them to do something about this. The war was not necessarily raged out of anger or necessity, but out of jealousy and fear. The dragons, knowing that it would spell an end to their reign, would of course have to meet this threat, but there's no discernable reason as to why that age had to end, and why Gwyn had to overthrow the dragons. I think that moral conflict was recognized by Gwyn's firstborn and some others, that the war need not be fought, and that this is antagonistic to the natural order of things. Especially once the fire fades and Gwyn bastardized the cycle of the fire, causing the world to be thrown into endless turmoil until the events of 3 (depending on the ending). Had the Lord Souls, which I assume came from what was prior cycles, or was left to rage underground, or perhaps even kindled by the dragons (how else would the fire be present? Were the dragons aware of it?), been left alone, would anything have changed? In any case, the fire burnt down the Arch trees, at least in the area the lords resided in, and most of the Everlasting Dragons were killed. I have always been more curious about the age prior to that of fire, with the dragons ruling a dusky world, and how the fire played a role in that. Because clearly, all of Dark Souls lore comes from the abuse of power caused by fear; the shackling of humanity with the curse, the destruction of the dragons, the hiding of the hidden world, and the war against chaos and the abyss. Gwyn was afraid of change and so he abused the power of change to prevent deviation from his order, which in the end caused much greater ruin. You have to wonder why the Lothric princes and Aldia were so critical of Gwyn and the linking of the flame in general; their philosophies always seemed so nihilistic. Aldia to the point of obsession with Dragons and the prolonging of life, and the Lothric princes with a general bitterness about it all. I sometimes wonder if the origins of the fire were a collective disassociation from the soul by whatever progeny race came before the hollowed creatures that lived underground. After all, they had to come from somewhere? Things that recognize this bastardization, and are not so focused on souls and their manipulation of the cycles, always seem to try and deviate the chosen undead and its successors from doing what you're directed to from the start of the games.

[@ryanpenix1852]

The winged knights being aligned with the primordial serpents makes a lot of since especially because of the small wings on most of them

[@signoguns8501]

You could voice a character in dark souls. A friendly merchant in the wilderness or something lol. Excellent lore series btw. Am binge watching them right now

[@SilverMont]

I'm no good at acting, unfortunately - no range. But yeah I could probably do a very basic character or narration haha

[@zionthedragon8866]

And no mention of the serpent statues in the same dlc as midir.

[@flygawnebardoflight]

About time!

[@dipayandegtyarev7177]

Kaathe did nothing wrong. Praise the Red Eye Orb!

[@felipecosta-kv2fx]

Yes he did, He destroyed two old civilizations just to bring the dark back, And how he will bring dark back? USE THE THING THAT DEFORM HUMANS AND IS NOT NATURAL! (The abyss)

[@theonewhoismany8072]

@@felipecosta-kv2fx it's not natural because gwyn put a seal of fire on the humans to supress their power and true forms. Remember the early humans had weapons and armors made from the darkness of the abyss. The humans are born from the dark and have as source of power the dark and the abyss. But because of gwyn's linking of the fire and his seal of fire put on the humans we can never atain our true nature and tap into our true power for me kaathe is the right choice.

[@felipecosta-kv2fx]

@@theonewhoismany8072 So the humans of oolacile are "natural"? The itens descriptions clearly says that they "humanity got wild", Fuck, Just look at they heads! And did you have seen what the abyss did with the four kings, abyss watchers, midir and the furtive pigmy? Just look at him!

[@minespatch]

Screw the dragons, I'm team Patches.

[@Sanctor95]

That captioning tho... "king ciggy Frampt, and dark stalker car"

[@SilverMont]

Dark stalker car, yeah you won't catch me getting into one of those. I've had enough of stalkers.

[@kyrinjohnson7668]

Always thought the entire fire dark cycle was just a extremely long game of chess, playing with the flow of kings and cycle's

[@SilverMont]

That could make sense considering what we know of them sneks

[@johntrains1317]

I actually looked up this vid cause I just played DS3 and realized there are primordial serpents statues on the bridge where you fight the dragon slayer armor before prince lothric

[@SilverMont]

It was weird to see them there, that's for sure!

[@jacobhoover1654]

@@SilverMont it's not weird, Frampt was probably worshipped there for helping others link the fire before, such as the chosen undead

[@SilverMont]

It's weird because they got wings! And you don't know for sure if it's Kaathe or Frampt.

[@Giuli2077]

and maybe that ending with serpents will be made in Dark Souls 4

[@noirevala]

“Does not reproduce” Damn then I guess Priscilla is just part of my imagination

[@SilverMont]

I always figured it made more sense that Priscilla was more of a test-tube style experiment. Considering Seath has turned Gwynevere's handmaidens into some sort of Bloodborne monsters, maybe they were failed attempts or precursors.

[@noirevala]

Silver Mont I personally prefer the idea that perhaps the reason the Nameless King was banished and wiped from history is that he fell in love with the enemy. After all if betrayed them for love he could be made a martyr rather then an enemy. Plus that could be a reason Priscilla has scales

[@ift7797]

Fun fact their appearance is based on a couple panels from the berserk manga where a group of spirits resemble the primeval serpents, meatstaches and all

[@JayWhipp1e]

They mention pus of man in a few item descriptions

[@lordmaximus5]

Boys we’re back!!!

[@onii-san3851]

And yet I will always link the fire

[@Tiraskaar]

In the Hindu mythology, Manu was the name of the first man, like adam in bible. Also, the word "Manus" Is a pretty common word in both Hindi and Marathi language which means "a person".

[@NECROMAGICIAN666]

Manus looks like the Italian word Mano That means hand like the hand he has

[@Stephen-so9oi]

@@NECROMAGICIAN666 it's a double meaning

[@silvertemplar8061]

Thank you so much dude!!! Can’t believe I didn’t see this. 👏

[@SilverMont]

No biggie, homeslice

[@silvertemplar8061]

Seriously you are one of the few channels providing us with new info while other channels cease. Thank you Also don’t give up on pitching your ivory king story to a developer.

[@Lucky-sq3ky]

Is it just me or does the way Frampt speak sound like he's just trying to act cool and fancy

[@daishi3050]

And I just beat DS3 right after this video went up. :o

[@MertOguz]

Its uncommon theory but as another idea, those are just heads of a single serpent, and it has greater purpose than finding dark lord or lord of cinder, which makes more sense why in dark lord scene both kaathe and frampt kneels. The great serpent just wants someone strong to rule the world, it doesn't matter how, just someone to bring balance and rule. Linking the fire, letting the world fall into abyss are just motivation for the choosen one, only thing that matters is somebody to be strongest, unbendable and would last for ages, preventing chaos between fire and dark.

[@Thesamjam5]

If Silver Mont and VaatiVidya did a video together that'll be the greatest day ever, for they are two of the Masters of Lorecraft

[@ChaosCloud96]

the thing with carth is that he claims Gwyn was afraid of the Dark and the Dark lords arrival, The only reason I can see for Gwyn to be scared is because he fears his own demise and if that is the case, sacrificing himself to link the fire wouldn't make much sense. I think the age of darkness has more to it

[@darragh9837]

Wants his bloodline to hold on to their power id reckon

[@rakkatytam]

What if all the serpents are the same creature? Mind blown

[@brendanjoyce645]

Like a hydra

[@Kid_Naps]

This is what I thought original, one is on one end, the other on the other.

[@rakkatytam]

@@brendanjoyce645 hmm I was thinking more like the mice from hitch hikers guide to the Galaxy

[@rakkatytam]

@@Kid_Naps see I was thinking they might be the same creature that just exists in different places at the same time. Kind of like one creature and a multiple mirrors. Haha no real evidence just stoner thoughts

[@Kid_Naps]

Aaaah man I get you, stoner thoughts myself brought me the idea of the two headed snake. You just gave it a more "transcendental" vibe :D Although we have no proof for either of these theories sooooo ... :/

[@tracythomas4700]

With gundyr's abyss powers is it a loss or control and swelling of fear or is it an acceptance of the cursed power.

[@LordDoom10]

Wasn't Gywn preventing the Age of Dark beginning? That is why Kaathe sent the Chosen Undead to kill him?

[@SilverMont]

Sort of, yeah. But Gwyn's fire is fading all by itself. It might've made more sense just to break the Lordvessel or otherwise try and prevent people reaching Gwyn so they could possibly link the fire at all, I feel.

[@briancooley8777]

Well he does have the darkwraith covenant to stop players from beating the game xD

[@GeneralTaco155555a]

@@SilverMont but for the Chosen Undead to truly become the Dark Lord, wouldn't it make sense that they would have to defeat the "Lord of Sunlight" first, even if he is reduced to cinders? Gwyn has been in the Kiln for who knows how long, and his soul was still keeping it lit, so it makes sense for Kaathe to want someone to go extinguish it Also, Aldia and Sulyvahn have a lot of parallels, so the first scholar and the statue in Lothric could be Suly (perhaps Sulyvahn is even a reincarnation of Aldia?). Both are trying to transcend light and dark (deep+profaned flame), both have wooden branching elements, both have multiple entities within them (Aldia's voice is made up of multiple voice actors, Sulyvahn can split himself).

[@skycrafter2042]

@@SilverMont no because if hes still alive someone might be able to kill him and get strong enough by killing him that they could link the flame.

[@IslanKleinknecht]

As Aldia says: *indecipherable noise*

[@SilverMont]

Need more insight!

[@WillButtlerYeets]

Manus looks oddly like an... Omen from Elden Ring?

[@SilverMont]

They are both primeval humans, in a sense

[@WillButtlerYeets]

@@SilverMont there's so many connections. There's even constant imagery of the pillar-like arch trees that reach into the sky

[@Red-jx7qu]

Thought I'd say that the Follower's Torch mentions the Pus of Man, it's somewhat subtle but still a reference point.

[@SilverMont]

You are correct! Shame we didn't have more, in the dlc or the base game

[@Red-jx7qu]

Seeing what all the souls game could've been with cut content really does make me yearn for what could've been. Particularly in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 where entire chunks of plot and lore seems to have been cut out in the last few months, it's very sad.

[@Nightwyl]

I didn't play all the DS but DS1, though I watched a lot of lore videos. Though I wonder a few things. Aren't primordial serpents like Kaathe simply manipulating humans to bring back a kind of age like the dragons were living in? What if the "Age of Man" was a lie to our face? Like a carrot to makes us move forward. After all, would you truly fight for the dark, grim and corrupted world of the serpents over a world of light that struggle to survive by any means? We often see Gwyn as a "desperate fake authoritarian god". Yet, I think DS wants to teach us that to fight for light is an endless struggle that pushes people to commit atrocities at some point. And darkness as well as corruption awaits at every turn to take power. But what is darker? To continue a lie for the survival of light or to bring darkness for those that lies in it? Just wondering...

[@zacheryjackson5089]

King seeker = king of all seekers

[@RigalicReign]

I just got hit by a hell of a what if, what if the previous cycle was dragons and serpents and the dragons linked the gray or something like that. It super early in the morning so I may just be crazy

[@MrJara1018]

They look so unsettling......

[@nono9543]

I want to see the fan art.

[@mrfourtwenty8506]

Double ended worm 🐛

[@thepunishersequence291]

what armor is that and do I need dlc to get it? I'm still stuck with an xbox360 don't hurt me

[@leonlacroix2638]

Wait whats that cutscene at 12:00? Ive never seen that in my hundreds of times playing ds3

[@SilverMont]

Let the firekeeper take the fire and then kill her before the screen fades to black entirely and you get that

[@sephimaru2198]

This video was mostly a recap of the overall events or not?

[@Sanctor95]

Ok so serious comment, this video pretty much solidifies to me the idea that dragons are more than they are made out to be. The fact that humans can become dragons, and the fact that even proper dragons often exhibit human features, just makes it seem like dragons are just one of many forms attainable by man. Other forms include imperfect versions of the dragon form, ie serpentine form, and other forms, attained probably with help from the power of souls, as it seems pretty difficult to attain the dragon form for which you seemingly don't need souls. The only questions that remain imo relate to the nature of the world in Dark Souls, which appears to be mutable and changing.

[@kneeofjustice9619]

Hey Alex, you should do an iconic spells video.

[@SilverMont]

Funnily enough, I'm editing something more or less along those lines

[@Dezzy2178]

Yo question if the downfall of oolicile was 1000 years ago. It’s pretty evident it was if not more. You time travel as their is someone from Victorian Era a different time zone then us. The exit to SIF’s arena to darkroot garden is the EXACT SAME as the entrance to the dlc once you exit the sanctuary beating the first boss. And judging by as the other gange in geography 1000 years is easy to see.

[@gollum5964]

Kaathe sounds like John Hurt.

[@SilverMont]

Huh, kinda

[@regimento6586]

So I've dug up monologues of Vendrick and Aldia recently once again. And once I've overcame mesmerizing effect of their voices, I managed to hear a female voice in Aldia's lines. Vendrick's wife was a manifestation of greed, Ivory queen was a a despair or fear queen of iron fortress was rage and queen of sunken kingdom -- pride. So Could it be that Aldia had been married as well? As if his wife also was a part of Manus, representing knowledge, the first sin. All his twisted experiments were inspired by his very own shard of human nature. And at some point Aldia tried to escape a fleeting form of men by merging with his shard into one being

[@SilverMont]

If you look at some of the trailers for Scholar, you'll hear Aldia's voice without the filters that add in the "female echo" for lack of a better term. I do wonder what the whole purpose was, behind that.

[@lordreptilestormblade1749]

I believe Frampt and Kaathe are both immortal since they were around since the age of ancients, the very beginning. Mortals would've died long before the events of the games unless turned undead, but even then would've went hollow by the time of DS1, clearly neither are hollow or undead. Also, neither are purely good nor purely evil. Both respect the player even when devouring them to get them to the altar for the lordvessel, and while they might get angry at the player if attacked too much or if they side with the opposing serpent, neither will agro. I also see a connection of some kind between them and the serpent rings. The silver serpent ring grants a soul reward bonus and Frampt gives souls in exchange for items. The gold serpent ring increases chance and number of items dropped while Kaathe will provide items if given enough humanity, provided you joined his neutral covenant, the dark wraiths. I see the dark wraiths as overall neutral. While most attack the player, keep in mind it was ages since the sealers sealed them away, meaning they are hollow and don't know you at all, plus they are assassins, killing is practically all they know. Plus, in DS3, at least 2 dark wraiths are allied to the player if they received 5 dark sigils, those being Yuria and a pale shade. While pale shades are slightly different in their equipment, the sable church they serve was founded by 3 sisters, 1 of whom is Yuria, and if you check unmasked pictures of her, she is not hollow, revealing why she will not attack the player unless they attack her first while other dark wraiths will still attack because they are hollow and lack any memory of you.

[@halawayacarlile4524]

i know this isnt really relivent to the videos content but i just couldnt figure out what armor he was using for the ds1 segments. does anyone know?

[@SilverMont]

Brass set, with a texture swap

[@Raven-fr3ki]

I’d argue sulyvahn’s robe would be completely different, as wax head scholar is a lower rank than pontiff, and it’s not a statue of lothric as far as I’ve ever known I thought it was pontiff? They share bracers, a necklace, a sword?

[@unstablepc5913]

what is that armour set?

[@BarrowBird]

What armor is he wearing? (at 5:05)