David Butler & Mike Day | The Ancient Temple and Lehi's Tree of Life Vision

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In this episode of the "Ask the Experts Interview Series" the Paul brothers have a discussion with David Butler and Mike Day about the extensive research and study Dave has done to find the plain and precious truths in the scripture to understand the “mysteries” of God. Presenting his hypothesis that the Tree of Life Vision found in 1 Nephi is highly symbolic of LDS Temple theology.
D. John Butler (Dave) is a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. His training is in law, and he also writes fiction. He has written two books on his finds in the scriptures entitled “Plain and Precious Things” and “The Goodness and The Mysteries”.
The Stick of Joseph KZbin channel seeks to make the Book of Mormon accessible to all ages by making engaging, entertaining and informative content.
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[@thestickofjoseph]

BUY DAVE'S NEW BOOK HERE: plainandpreciouspublishing.com/products/in-the-language-of-adam-paperback

[@jdctact]

I did... But ya'll don't ship to Canada so I sent it to a relatives in the USA.... Once they finish reading it, they will send it the rest of the way . Truth be told, it's taking a lot longer than I had hoped, still super excited to get it! Nothing you guys have done, just thought you would get a kick out of the experience.

[@ClintK.]

Guys your last show and this is the content I'm craving from producers. This was just amazing! Please do a weekly series with these two guests! This was Celestial material level goodness!

[@franciegwin]

Yes yes yes!!!!

[@LatterDaisySaint]

YAAASSSSSSS!!!!!!

[@marianneknight822]

Been anxiously waiting for this! I will add that, as far as women in the church goes, that early on after attending the temple, and being the feminist I used to be, I struggled for a bit. But many years ago, I came to the conclusion that the role of women is likely more than what we know, and it is not our role to “do what the men do” - but that we have a role in the priesthood that we will eventually learn. And I’m here for it. And have learned patience. This episode spoke to my soul. Seriously, thank you.

[@gingersnaps215]

There’s an article called “the two trees” that I really like. Plus a video of a lecture by the same name on the Academy for Temple Studies channel (part of the Lady in the Temple playlist). I’ve also been reading a lot of church history lately, and I think women used to feel like they had more access to priesthood power in the beginning (based on things Joseph said and did, if you read the minutes from the Relief Society meeting), and they actually did have “ordained” women healers, midwives, and obstetricians (my sister told me about the last two, I only knew about the healers). General Relief Society President also was originally a lifelong calling, until Emmeline B Wells (President number 5) was released like 20 days before she died (Emma doesn’t really count as having been released; she’s a special case). There was also a lot of top-down extolling from past leaders, like after the original/second generation apostles had mostly all died, that women had ZERO priesthood, outside of their relationship with their husbands. Now, it’s much more clear that, yes, women p, and all who have been set apart for callings, and gone through the temple, and work in the temple, use priesthood power, which is the power of God, and not confined to an “office held by a worthy male.” Worthy, ordained men have the authority, but worthy women (and children!) can and do have access to it, and can use it (the blessings women gave were never sealed by priesthood authority, but always in the Lord’s name.) I think we’re getting back to a place where women are being included more in the decision-making processes and included in councils at at least the local levels, but I wish there would be an “official” push to make sure the women leaders are included in council meetings, at all levels. I can’t imagine God is no respecter of persons, EXCEPT where gender is concerned; and then you only get the respect of definitely having a voice in councils if you’re male. It doesn’t seem quite right to me. But that could be the feminist in me 🤷‍♀️

[@LatterDaisySaint]

Definitely look into the "two trees." The Tree of Knowledge being "Eve's" stewardship, and the Tree of Life being "Adam's" stewardship" (and Jesus Christ, the "2nd Adam"....crucified on a TREE... in the meridian of Time). The Tree of Knowledge has already been partaken of, and thus we have fallen into mortality and linear Time. "Eve's tree" is behind us...we can't *see* her part. Thus, as we move forward in time, with Eve's tree behind us, it's like...we don't even see her. We don't see "her part" - we only *see* Adam's part (which can make it appear as if Eve has no part at all). But that's not the case. Eve provides spirits their physical birth...to be born so that we can die. Christ (2nd Adam) made it possible for ALL to live beyond death - He opened up the Way (we are born to die, and through Christ we die to LIVE). "Adam's" stewardship is to provide souls their "second birth" - (Priesthood ordinances) to be born again, to become "new creatures" in Christ. Both stewardships are essential and the Plan would be frustated without these vital TREES. Sidenote: Last year, temple changes occurred on Tu B'Shvat - The New Year for TREES!! Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of those changes. Just a fun side study...look into references about trees! Also remember the Menorah is the Tree of Life, with almond blossoms. The rod of Aaron which was used to perform miracles in Egypt was a dead almond branch. The tribes placed their rods in the temple and God chose Aaron's rod. This DEAD ALMOND BRANCH budded, blossomed and bore fruit overnight. The almond tree is the first tree to "wake up" after winter....its blossoms are WHITE. Israel celebrates this...when they see the white almond blossoms, they know the sap is now alive and running through the trees, to eventually bring forth fruit. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." ~Acts 5: 30 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." ~Isaiah 61:3 "And the king made of the almug trees PILLARS for the HOUSE OF THE LORD.." ~1 Kings 10: 12 "Him that overcometh will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." ~Revelation 3: 12 "But I am like a green olive tree in the HOUSE of God. I trust in the steadfast love of God forever and ever." ~Psalm 52: 8 "Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit." ~Jeremiah 17:7-8 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." ~Matthew 3: 10 "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." ~Mattthew 12: 33 "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon." ~Psalm 92:12 "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving." ~Colossians 2:6-7 "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day. For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease." ~Job 14:1-7 "She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." ~Proverbs 3: 18 "For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." ~Romans 11:16-27 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us." ~Judges 9: 8 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ~John 15: 5 ~xoxo!!!

[@LatterDaisySaint]

Definitely look into the "two trees." The Tree of Knowledge being "Eve's" stewardship, and the Tree of Life being "Adam's" stewardship" (and Jesus Christ, the "2nd Adam"....crucified on a TREE... in the meridian of Time). The Tree of Knowledge has already been partaken of, and thus we have fallen into mortality and linear Time. "Eve's tree" is behind us...we can't *see* her part. Thus, as we move forward in time, with Eve's tree behind us, it's like...we don't even see her. We don't see "her part" - we only *see* Adam's part (which can make it appear as if Eve has no part at all). But that's not the case. Eve provides spirits their physical birth...to be born so that we can die. Christ (2nd Adam) made it possible for ALL to live beyond death - He opened up the Way (we are born to die, and through Christ we die to LIVE). "Adam's" stewardship is to provide souls their "second birth" - to be born again, to become "new creatures" in Christ. Both stewardships are essential and the Plan would be frustated without these vital TREES. Sidenote: Last year, temple changes occurred on Tu B'Shvat - The New Year for TREES!! Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of those changes. Just a fun side study...look into references about trees! Also remember the Menorah is the Tree of Life, with almond blossoms. The rod of Aaron which was used to perform miracles in Egypt was a dead almond branch. The tribes placed their rods in the temple and God chose Aaron's rod. This DEAD ALMOND BRANCH budded, blossomed and bore fruit overnight. The almond tree is the first tree to "wake up" after winter....its blossoms are WHITE. Israel celebrates this...when they see the white almond blossoms, they know the sap is now alive and running through the trees, to eventually bring forth fruit. "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree." ~Acts 5:30 "To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." ~Isaiah 61:3 "And the king made of the almug trees PILLARS for the HOUSE OF THE LORD.." ~1 Kings 10:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." ~Revelation 3:12 "But I am like a green olive tree in the HOUSE of God. I trust in the steadfast love of God forever and ever." ~Psalm 52:8 "Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit." ~Jeremiah 17:7-8 "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." ~Matthew 3:10 "Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit." ~Mattthew 12:33 "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon." ~Psalm 92:12 "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving." ~Colossians 2:6-7 "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. And doth thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee? Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day. For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease." ~Job 14:1-7 "She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." ~Proverbs 3:18 "For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." ~Romans 16-27 "The trees went forth on a time to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us." ~Judges 9:8 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." ~John 15:5

[@dorar6123]

​@@gingersnaps215yes, absolutely yes to everything you said and thanks for the resources to look up.

[@gingersnaps215]

@@dorar6123 You’re quite welcome! I also just listened to an old podcast episode about a book by Melinda Wheelwright Brown called, “Eve and Adam: Discovering the Beautiful Balance.” The podcast is Mandy Green’s podcast Reflecting Light; an episode from Feb 2021. The book I have not read, but is on my list! The author brought up some connections between Eve and Christ that I hadn’t quiiiite noticed, or heard, before Struck me with that whole “the last shall be first and the first shall be last” thing, especially with the context of “The Two Trees” in mind. AND, add to that things I’ve learned from Margaret Barker lectures about the Tree of Life being the “wisdom” tree, and that is always feminine (the word is feminine in Hebrew and Greek, and often personified as a woman/womanly in scripture), and the Tree of Knowledge is the “masculine” tree. I forget in which lecture she discussed THAT tidbit, but I find all of her lectures fascinating, so I think they’re worth your time if you’re interested! (Plus 2x speed is always an option 😆) (Barker’s lecture, “Biblical Vision for Creation,” is an excellent one for chesed/hesed/steadfast love/the possible word behind “covenant” in the Book of Mormon/Pres Nelson says IS the everlasting covenant in an article from the October ‘22 Liahona. The “Covenant of Peace” is another lecture about that, too. More male/female balance and a better understanding of hesed for all!! These are my current soap boxes. 😂) Happy reading and learning!

[@justinhathcock5490]

I work in the Gilbert AZ temple and after this discussion I really started paying attention to the symbolism, especially around the celestial room. And sure enough there is a lot but what stuck out to me the most is the glass in the doors leading in and out of the celestial room are etched in a kind of tree bark pattern. I’ve been through those doors a hundred times but never paid attention to it before

[@TheYgds]

I would come back for another few hours talking about Isaiah authorship. Just Biblical authorship in general is fascinating and useful. This is some of the best LDS content being made right now. Keep it up!!

[@TheGreaterU]

This conversation strengthened my testimony. Specifically a strong reminder of the power of God manifest in the balanced, sealed, union of men and women in the Holy Temple. There is so much yet to learn! I love it all.

[@MichaelGMoney]

Thanks to all four of you. It is an amazing feeling to know there are other people out there interested in these topics.

[@kristinearchibald6264]

You four guys should do this every week! It’s so rewarding to have this stuff on constantly to fill my mind with this rich conversation.

[@stevesherman5597]

One item perhaps missed (around 1:40ish) is that celestial room chandeliers ARE The Tree, a symbol that Adam and Eve (us) have been restored, through the veil (Christ) to the Tree of Life. It is white, full of light, beautiful, and most precious. Perhaps many miss the symbology of Lehi's tree because it is UPSIDE down, with its "roots" in heaven, the branches reaching out to us.

[@johnrowley310]

At 250 thousand a pop they ought to represent something.

[@hopkinsonebm3692]

I think it looks like an upside down tree. At least in my temple.

[@jeffcarlin5866]

The veil does not represent Christ. The veil was BORROWED or TAKEN from Freemasonry.

[@jeffcarlin5866]

​@@johnrowley310 Jesus LOVES chandeliers. He wants the best of the best.

[@latter-daysaintchristian4134]

I love this! Thank you!

[@daleclark7127]

Awesome and enlightening discussion. My wife and I are totally into understanding the tree and it’s implications with temple and the feminine. Folks at church seem to care little about the deep import and implications that exists here. Not sure why but it appears the Saints are good with the usual old Sunday School answers and can’t seem to understand we have a gem that has more to teach than first meets the eye.

[@wayneorr6748]

As long as we don’t get caught up with it. What is important is the basics faith ,repentance, baptism.gift of the Holy Ghost. They are the essentials. Other learning is great as long as we don’t get caught up with it , and neglect the important things.

[@devinfromheaven777]

Cleon Skousen said the church gives us the what and we can go to the celestial kingdom knowing that, but the how and why we should study also. They help us to be more enlightened to live the what. For me the more deeply I realize God is, the more I want to be obedient and realize the overall purpose and big picture. Kind of like a worker ant. It can dutifully do its duty but imagine the excitement of knowing the grandeur of the entire colony. It would give inspiration, perspective, and motivation

[@belenharris8174]

I used to think the same, but as I have shared bits and pieces in class discussions at church, I have found that people actually look forward to my comments. Throughout scripture, we are taught that we need to seek things out! The basics are foundational, and a house is *more* than just a foundation. Spiritual hunger, seeking out the "mysteries", feasting on God's Word... these are all encouraged in scripture! The world competes for our attention, and decreases our hunger. This is why I fast in more than one way! Social media fast, chocolate fast (chocolate is a weakness of mine 😅), TV/media fast. It takes intention to be HUNGRY.

[@angelalewis3645]

@@belenharris8174 I really like your comment! Very encouraging. And, yes, fasting in many ways!

[@kimweierman149]

I never quite understood and, have always wondered, how Nephi saw the tree then Mary and concluded that it was the love of God. Thank you!!! My faith journey and knowledge of truth have been expanded today! Please bring these guys back again and keep up the great work!

[@GinaMacArt]

Getting us to think way outside the box is enlightening. Keep it coming. I love the in-depth information and knowledge being shared. Dave and Mike are amazing to listen to. More please. 😊❤️🙏🇦🇺

[@juliearcher2970]

🤯🤯🤯 David Butler and Mike Day have been such an answer to prayers . Also, I was perplexed months back when I was in the celestial room at the Newly renovated St George temple. I didn’t understand why Christ was replaced with trees and asked Heavenly Father the significance. Looks like he answered my prayer again through David and Mike. 😭 I am eternally grateful to these giants.

[@ArnMilt]

How was Christ replaced by trees in the St. George temple? Was this a painting or something in the decor? Or do you mean something else entirely?

[@colinbagley786]

Amazing connections and insights! This 3 part series is my first intro to your channel. Thanks for putting in this effort to expound the scriptures!

[@rebeccarounkles1719]

My husband and I are ones who love this and listen to it all the way through! Thank you! Keep them coming!

[@danielschulz9304]

I was wondering what happened to the rest of the six hours you taped. I'm glad to see you guys making this content. Thank you

[@thestickofjoseph]

It is the previous two episode with David Butler. You should check them out!

[@MidnightSaint760]

Y’all deserve every single one of my dollars per month for this content

[@benjamingregersen9777]

I discovered that Saint Catherine's book, "The Dialog," is literally a commentary on Lehi's dream. I was shocked! She's communicating with God the Father in it, and he tells her that he's the man standing under the tree of life beckoning his children to come. There's so many aspects of what she wrote that fits this hypothesis really well.

[@Adam-ww8ei]

It’s strange that these topics aren’t talked about more in the church

[@LatterDay-Soldier]

We really should I mean as long as it doesn’t trigger that 9th sense of discernment then totally

[@deborahrhodes4892]

Seems not enough of us want to move beyond the Primary questions and answers. It makes me want to move, but the next ward will be the same.

[@richardjeppson7361]

It's almost as if it's its a repeat of Lehis day in Jerusalem..... just sayin. If it were to ever start to become more published I wonder what the church's responce would be to the modern day "visionary men."

[@jasonsnyder8341]

The church is for milk. You want meat, you need to get it on your own time. Most people will not get it. Nor can they. One has to be ready to receive it.

[@casadelswain434]

Why do you think the Prophet called us lazy learners? The Lord doesn’t want passive followers, we’re to be learning this line upon line, precept upon precept. Many members don’t even understand the doctrine in the scriptures and yet, everyone wants to jump up to this. This is beautiful and amazing, but clicks more when we have the basics down. Especially when we make sure our children and ward siblings are learning the milk too. Ministering makes this connect as well.

[@clarencehaws3811]

FYI. My mother-in-law wrote the music to press forward saints. This vision remind me of her music. She also wrote families can be together forever. The music to it. I've been listening to you guys for about a month and I really enjoyed what I hear.

[@cinsains1957]

I fully admit that Brother Butler’s book: ‘In the language of Adam’ was a little like jumping from basic arithmetic to calculus. I highly recommend reading his more elementary book: ‘Plain and Precious Things’ before the former. I can now connect the dots, thanks to he and M May, the Paul’s and Margaret Barker. I really appreciate your conversations and great work to make our scriptures a light for small and simple understandings, to eventually show the way to greater things.

[@alglock8914]

So good! While listening I couldn’t help thinking about how in Lehi’s group the women became strong like the men in 1 Nephi 17:2 “And so great were the blessings of the Lord upon us, that while we did live upon raw meat in the wilderness, our women did give plenty of suck for their children, and were strong, yea, even like unto the men; and they began to bear their journeyings without murmurings.” And then how Nephi’s “brethren” complained against him saying in 1 Nephi 17:20 “…and our women have toiled, being big with child; and they have borne children in the wilderness and suffered all things, save it were death; and it would have been better that they had died before they came out of Jerusalem than to have suffered these afflictions.” They really showed the depths of their apostasy, wishing that their “strong women” had died in Jerusalem! As a woman, I have always been astounded at this wickedness wishing their wives were dead and had not had their children. But with this understanding, it is so much deeper. They wanted to frustrate the very order of God while saying they are righteous!

[@davegrathwohl9]

Ok....I just got my mind and spirit EXPANDED from almost 5 hours of KNOWLEDGE BOMBS. I swear to you, that as these videos/podcasts...whatever they were unfolded, as I pondered and contemplated what you guy were "teaching"...it was like OMG...I know all this stuff...I feel it in my bones. I received to Plain and Precious Things and In the Language of Adam earlier today...looking forward to cannonballing in to the deep end of the pool with these 2 reads.

[@CapTeancum]

I'm finally in love with the BoM again. Thanks to yo' all for this videos. Linking 1 Nephi to the Old Testament and the archeologic finds just makes me to keep on reading it and look for things I've been missing.

[@johnrowley310]

Could you ever love the Bible?

[@CapTeancum]

@@johnrowley310 I was raised with the Bible. I only found out about the Book of Mormon when I was 14. I will always love the Bible.

[@Tin_Lizzie]

I finally feel like I'm feasting on my scriptures, not just nibbling.

[@supie840]

I just have to say thank you to David and Mike for sharing all their language learning. I don't want to learn Hebrew or ancient Greek but I love listening to all these insightthank you! Different translations so thank you!

[@davidjeppson3574]

I love this in the context of 2nd Nephi 2 verse 15 when he describes the two trees in the garden - “the one being sweet and the other bitter.”

[@dawnbroadbent]

1:27:02 When Mike Day started singing "Ashirah..." from Prince of Egypt I perked up. It has stuck with me for 24 hours now. I pulled up the clip on KZbin with the translation. It is so powerful. I never knew why I was overwhelmed with emotion and instantly started crying when I heard it sung but this explains so much. ♥

[@pfoxworth7]

I love Dave Butler and his perspective. Mike Day is a great man. I used to be in Mike's ward. I always enjoyed his comments in Sunday school.

[@gingersnaps215]

I’m so flippin excited for this topic!!!!!!

[@melrichards6375]

This is just wonderful. In regard to “falling down” I have listened to many NDE’s and have had my own experiences with being filled with the spirit almost as if face to face with Christ. People often describe that they “fell to their knees”. It’s as if the Lord is so marvelous the body just collapse. Every knee shall bow every tongue shall confess. When you know you know

[@angelalewis3645]

❤

[@melindarmorgan7111]

What an amazing time to live in this earth! To have the technology available that we can listen to shows like this. I love the way the gospel is flooding the earth.

[@laniseheaton5852]

that was fantastic! I am so grateful for the personal study and insights all of you have made in your journeys for truth and light. I have been praying for further light and knowledge and stumbled across this channel, which I believe, as a direct answer to that plea. Thank you thank you! I'm hungering and thirsting for more.

[@Thehaystack7999]

I always watch the full episodes! Keep up the great work!

[@tinysafari1851]

@tinysafari1851 8 minutes ago @Thehaystack799 It's over 2-hours in length runtime and just dropped 57 minutes ago, do the math!

[@Thehaystack7999]

@@tinysafari1851 I am still watching and have watched all their past videos in full. To use your own verbiage “do the math.” Hope you have a better day.

[@shanaemartinez1264]

I'm learning so much from these discussions. Thank you so much for sharing your study's abd knowledge of the scriptures with us. 😊❤ I love it. It is helping me understand the deeper meaning of tge scriptures. ❤❤❤

[@joshuagoodwin4109]

What is this website that Mike is referring to at 1:32:02? I want to learn Hebrew as well!

[@jellyo6605]

Glad to be one of the 8. It's very fascinating. Thanks for the discussion!

[@SA-gf7uf]

In the center of the room above the flowers, there is a large chandelier which could be seen as the roots of the tree of light. The interesting thing about trees is theey look similar under the ground as above. Just what i thought about when you were talking about this. Thanks for the insights ❤

[@CN-pe4gz]

Excellent insight, I’m going to remember that.

[@sommerturtle]

Another one of my favorites in your video series. I have fallen in love with the content and knowledge coming from Mike Day and Dave Butler and yearn to learn more. These guys are incredible and many things they have found in their studies were things I’d come to believe on my own through whispering of the spirit and hearing it laid out so clearly scriptorally (is that a word?). was thrilling to the soul! In the mouth of 2 or 3 is wonderful! So beautiful. Love this channel!

[@debragoodman7169]

Wow!!! Awesome! I absolutely love your discussions and grow more each time I watch them. Thank you for sharing your light and knowledge. 😊

[@Whatiftheresmore1314]

From my perspective, Latter-Day Saints embrace and follow the whole and complete Biblical text. It is ever amazing to me. Thanks for another amazing video!

[@maryfrankralls9985]

I could listen to David Butler all day long!!! Sooooooo interesting!!

[@sgeloff]

Truly enlightening for me thank you. I love the symbolism of the Tree of Life. Let's keep seeking for more knowledge through Christ and hopefully more of the BOM will be revealed.

[@SouthernAngel]

Look at the light! It's like a symbol of the Tree of life! If you follow the lights through the endowment they grow in Brightness and connect to the chapel! That part is so cool to me. It's brought the temple to my meetings on Sunday.

[@melindarmorgan7111]

Took me three days to work through this episode. It was amazing. I’ve long thought in the ongoing restoration, women’s roles will be restored….i see it unfolding. Also love all the symbolism of the Tree of Life. I’ve wondered for years about the symbolism of the trees in the garden of Eden in connection with the Tree in Lehi’s dream. Anyhow, this comment is too long. Just want to say thanks for this. I’m loving it so much.

[@gwendolynwyne]

Totally agree, love this!

[@ShellLeighSays]

I think we have seen a lot of that come to pass in the Temple. We have Priestly Women who are called, set apart to initiate. You have to really engage in the greatness of what the Temple offers to learn all the precious things. I am still learning things that I had no idea about and I’m a grandma :) we don’t ask enough questions in the Temple. I’m asking now! If we didn’t have the Temple ordinances and covenants, why would we come? But we DO, and we need to remember how blessed we are to learn all these beautiful things. This is a living church. How cool is that?!

[@tiffanyseavy565]

I wouldn't hang my testimony on that. Be discerning. Bro. Butler is intelligent but he is not a prophet and some things he says is conflicting with the JST. Pray for discernment while watching!!

[@terrel_shumway]

​@@tiffanyseavy565conflicts? Please explain. Joseph was very fluid in the way he read scripture. The words don't matter nearly as much as what the Spirit teaches you.

[@tiffanyseavy565]

@@terrel_shumway bro Butler says Jesus said you WILL be perfect, where as JST makes it a commandment, not a future consequence.

[@laloifilealofi9628]

So,so sweet, brethren, so wonderful, reaches sweet to the souls, eyes to see and ears to hear, truly hungry and thirsty after righteousness, is Jesus Christ and His doctrines, love this, thanks again for sharing, brethren, truly amazing to my understanding, love and prayers

[@iknovate]

Got my copy of the new book today. Somehow made me feel as if Dave came to visit! Can't wait for the conversation to begin. The added videos are great, but I have to say that it's videos like this that really help to understand a lot about the book, like why the first section starts with the title Ulam. While reading Chapter 1, one reference made me wonder why some greeters at the desk of the Temple don't occasionally quip, "Welcome to the strait and narrow gate."

[@confusedwhynot]

Thank you Mike! You decribed perfectly how an intimate relationship of a man and a woman should be sweet with the presence of the divine. Anytime you make it about the mortal appetite it becomes bitter. Layman and Lemuel are living the letter of the law and not listening to the spirit. They see with mortal eyes and not spiritual ones. To grasp all that the Father has for us we must see with our spiritual eyes and take hold of the Rod (Christ). We must see beyond our natural eyes and affections to obtain the pure love of God and to partake of the tree.

[@mmnoriega2341]

This was just fascinating information to listen to! I have read the passages of scriptures shared here many times, and have always felt that there is deeper meaning to them, and this provides the meaning that I have been looking for! I love how they were all tied together. Thank you for providing this wonderful content!!

[@mosidakid]

So many things clicked for me while watching this. Thank you all for sharing. Mind blowing!

[@MichaelGMoney]

Also, why don't more members enjoy this stuff?? I've tried talking to so many members, and non members, and they all glaze over, and don't seem to give a shit about any of it. Anyone else experience this?

[@bankaibum82]

Yes all the time, bro there will be a time when you have answers & people will ask how

[@kevinparkin3322]

My father taught Christian History, World Religions, LDS Church History (the real stuff), Doctrine & Covenants, Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith Writings for 40 years at the LDS Institute of Religion at Univerisity of Utah. I have heard about and learned and dissected this stuff since I was 12 years old. I have attended Elders Quorums in Salt Lake City, Provo, Sacramento, Los Angeles, Huntington Beach and San Diego. Exactly zero elders cared about any comments I offered to clarify false or misleading statements made by the teacher. Worse, zero LDS women ever cared about these topics. But, to me, these discussions are the Elixir of the Mysteries of God. I am disappointed that the children of God don't care about His Mysteries and Kingdom.

[@MillieKlein]

A lot of people just want to learn and teach nephis vision like they always have. There are so many levels to the BOM and some people just prefer to nibble 😊

[@MichaelGMoney]

​@@bankaibum82I hope someday that I can pass on what little knowledge I have accumulated to my children. I have one in the oven and pray he will be as spiritually hungry for answers as I am.

[@MichaelGMoney]

​@@kevinparkin3322This kind of paints a grim picture of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and I don't know how to help fix the problem. I wish more of us craved the fire of the spirit of God, rather than the smoke from the embers.

[@franciegwin]

Please have these guys back and back again!!! I'm going to have to watch part 1 and part 2 again to bring to get this!!! But I love it.

[@ShellLeighSays]

Just binged all three of these episodes before and in between General Conference. I see the call to the Temple and making/keeping Covenants on a new level. How sweet is the love of God! When you were talking about the priestly women and one day maybe we will get more on that…. Do we not have ordained and set apart women right now to initiate women in the Temple? I am now going to call them Priestly Women 😊 Well done all of you. As our family says; we are ready for and looking for meat. This is 🥩 🥩 🥩 and WE LOVE IT!!! Thank you Paul Brothers, Brother Butler and Brother Day. My heart was burning!

[@radseven8643]

Am an Aniishinaabe from North Dakota and have recently found all this very interesting! Keep up the good work.

[@nataliemaher3147]

I would be interested to hear what David Butler does with 3 Nephi 21:18 where Jesus Himself says He will “pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee, so will I destroy thy cities.” I really liked to hear where they were taking this idea of Asherah, and could understand the view that scripture is written by the winners and King Josiah maybe wasn’t as righteous as he let on, but if the King of Kings would have removed the groves, then what do we do with that info?

[@denisekyle6603]

Glorious! Just plain Glorious! Thank you so very much

[@paulblack1799]

Re: Isaiah 6:8-10. Thank you. I have been saying this for years. At Isaiah's theophany and call he was ordered to baffle the people. If he spoke plainly he would have been killed outright like the other prophets and his prophecies destroyed. But by couching his prophecies in beautiful poetry and symbolism they stand today and we can begin learning from them. GREAT are the words of Isaiah.

[@SkyCandyDigitalCinema]

BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!!

[@MegRITTMANIC]

So good! If you liked this, and are looking for more content on heavenly mother try out this podcast. In Her Image: Finding Heavenly Mother in Scripture.

[@heartschoolmama]

Thank you!!

[@mamablux21family30]

Just had to say thank you! This episode is so great! And I LOVE Bruce Porter TOO! I actually said wahoo when you mentioned his name! 😁 If all four of you had a show with Bruce & the guy from Cwic media. You all have your own unique & different topics about the gospel in such a way that no matter who I watch, I’m always learning something new! It’s amazing how much I never knew I didn’t know! I could sit and soak up all of your videos.. I have never felt closer to the Savior these days and these topics are so wonderful. Thanks and keep it up. ❤

[@cecilsullivan3866]

The palm tree is one of the symbols of Ashera (along with the almond tree, the olive tree and others) I can’t think of a modern temple that doesn’t have a representation of the palm branch or tree in the celestial room. King Solomon had open flowers and palms as a temple decoration in the ancient temple. Very interesting! A side thought, do the palm branches at Christ’s triumphal entry also double represent the ashera? Interesting to consider.

[@deborahrhodes4892]

The donkey walked on the palm branches, so I hope not.

[@nancywheeler7914]

All celestial rooms in the modern temples have a wooden table with feet like roots with a large vase of flowers sitting on it. Almost always it is sitting below the main chandelier in the middle of the room.

[@sariahhayford3331]

​@deborahrhodes4892 but Jesus washed the apostles' feet soon after, so that COULD be a symbol of service, cushioning the donkeys path.

[@brandonaso]

I see a lot of comments suggesting the organization of the church or the culture of the church somehow discourages people to dig deep into these things; or that it is a shortfalling of the church to not address such topics more in depth or with cruious eyes to see more... I don't think that's really fair. Our Sundsay services is designed around ordinance, where there are symbols to explore. We have discussions, teachings, and speakers and mainly they are trying to feed the congregation the milk and the honey; but the congregation is not ready as a whole for these kinds of things. Imagine a evangelical visitor and all the shock and awe they are dealing with just being confronted with more scripture, and now we start hoisting deep temple topics on them that are basically stripped away from the bible almost entirely in any discernible way, and then we get coded messages about thoes precious things in the book of mormon...they would run for the hills. These things do need to be explored; but we explore them when we are ready. We receive them when we are ready. And only when we seek them out. This is a clear teaching in the gospel. When have you ever heard a prophet or an apostle tell you not to try and learn more from the temple, or from reading the book of mormon? Do we think these things are lost on them? I do not. So I am so excited that we can talk about these things, and that there are people who want and are feasting on the word. It's amazing -- You are all amazing! And I would add to that, the rest of us are also amazing, they just aren't ready yet. They are holding to the rod which will lead them to the tree. They can see the tree for what it is when they are ready. This video was a revelation to me. I had been reading about Nephi's vision early in the afternoon yesterday, and was drawing some of the same conclusions which had my head spinning. So to have this provide more clarity and concept wasfabulous and very encouraging. Thank you!

[@LightsomeLiving]

To add, the gospel of Jesus Christ in most basic form is faith and repentance with the baptism and Holy Ghost ordinance. That is aaronic level teaching. This kind of temple talk is Melchizedek level talk. It does seem appropriate to keep Sunday meetings/lessons on the basics and explore more through our temple worship.

[@terrel_shumway]

​@@LightsomeLivingthe Apostles have definitely been encouraging us to spend more time in the temple. In 2 Nephi 32:4 Nephi, who saw us, is frustrated that we aren't asking for more.

[@AlecSorensen]

About why don't we have more... actually, I was just pondering a lot and prayer about why don't we know more about Heavenly Mother. I am thunderstruck every time we gloss of the almost complete lack of Heavenly Mother. If knowing the nature and character of God is the first principle of the gospel, we have a huge gaping hole at step one. For me, this video was an answer to prayer as I started to entertain the idea that I don't have answers about Heavenly Mother because I wasn't ready for them, and started to try and change. However, after listening, I'm no longer surprised we're missing parts of the gospel, particularly around Heavenly Mother. First, it's clear that a lot of people don't want it: they protest the idea of a more central role of Heavenly Mother or a matriarchal order. Two, a lot of people are held back by the great and spacious building; in a sense, much of the Christian world is in that great and spacious building: they have the commandments, they have Christ, what they lack is the tree of life precisely because they would ridicule the very idea. And are we brave enough as a church to publicly embrace the teachings of Heavenly Mother, despite the ridicule of "traditional" Christianity? Third, there are plenty of people who are just complacent. Even those curious about Heavenly Mother may casually ask for sign... but are they really knocking and asking with a heart open enough to receive the tree of life if it does not actually conform to their preconceived notions?

[@deannawendt146]

Watched them all and just love it! As a gospel doctrine teacher I have to hold back.

[@Uke1111-to8xj]

By the way, in apocrypha the woman who anointed Jesus was Mary Magdalene. And when you know it was her, it even makes more sense why her role was so crucial in the context of early days of Christianity.

[@terrel_shumway]

Have you listened to episode 45 of Mike's Talking Scripture podcast? Mary Magdalene is a rock!

[@jasonleroywharton]

Very good conversation. This ties in very well with the Sealed Portion of holy writ as revealed by opening the book sealed with seven seals.

[@MarySmilodon]

I have been following along with my scriptures. This series has been amazing!!

[@craigbates27]

Excellent content guys keep it coming!

[@tinysafari1851]

how can you have already listened to a 2-hour video when it was just posted 20 minutes ago?

[@craigbates27]

@@tinysafari1851 still watching just enjoying the continued stuff with Dave and Mike

[@tinysafari1851]

@@craigbates27 It's a great podcast I have been looking forward to this for the past couple of weeks. Keep watching.

[@haydenschaap]

Chandelier seems to be the most consistently obvious representation of a holy, majestic, fantastic tree…whose fruit drapes down toward the newly emitted celestial beings in the form of “white lights”

[@mandeepeterson2297]

Temple workers are trained that it is the Spirit that teaches truth, especially in the temple. It's good to have questions and then seek revelatory answers in the temple. We are also taught that everything in the temple is symbolic, from the temperature to the decor to the light.

[@MichaelGMoney]

Last comment. Maybe. Is it possible, that the reason the tree of life vision takes place in a field, is that its an allegory for the temple no longer containing the important doctrines, hence the reason the spacious building is kind of floating, like it's just the shell of what it used to be.

[@MillieKlein]

I like that!

[@stevenodell7662]

It has no foundation. What did Jesus say was the foundation of his church? Apostles and prophets. And he, the cornerstone. Revelation. The WORD.

[@katykristensen302]

As they taught, I saw the Jewish temple as the G&SB because they have no Chief Cornerstone with which to build the firm foundation.

[@terrel_shumway]

The field represents the world, or the Ulam of the temple. Dave has a whole chapter about it in his new book.

[@SamuelOfCumorah]

If anyone was gonna develope a Nephite Workout it'd be you guys. And I would 100% follow it. I want to figure out something like that. Like "3 sets of 10 Plate swings" but its just a 60lbs kettle bell. Things like that. Anyway this BLEW ME AWAY and my heart and mind are on fire! Thanks for making this stuff. This channel goes to show that it's true what was once said about the Book of Mormon: its a mansion with rooms yet to be discovered. Or as I see it: a buffet that keeps getting bigger.

[@valeriejohnson6214]

In today's second anointing in the temple, the wife washes her husband's feet, anoints him, and gives him a blessing. This now makes perfect sense to me why it's done this way. She is the vessel to bring him to the higher order of the priesthood.

[@tinysafari1851]

Regarding Prokinesis here is one more you can add to the list Matthew 17:5-7. Excellent episode, thanks so very much for sharing.

[@Golden_red6]

Love this episode!! My teenage daughter loved it too!

[@corinnecallan940]

Can you share the link for the free Hebrew lessons mentioned at 1:32?

[@brianbacon3106]

Brother Day put the Hebrew study course in the show notes please. I have used Jeff Benners Biblical Hebrew course but it gets pretty heady fairly quick. Thanks in advance

[@stevereedatx]

I think the symbolism goes another level deeper. Who does Mary symbolize? Is the tree of life really just Mary or does it go deeper? I think it does. So we see three births and three mothers in the vision. The first mother and birth is the tree and the fruit, the second is Mary and Jesus, the THIRD is after the angel asks Nephi to behold the condescension of God and Nephi sees Jesus being baptized, that is the third birth, but where is the mother? Well, there is no voice from heaven in this version, but there is a DOVE. The dove was a well-known symbol of the queen of heaven, the divine mother. That's where we see another form of Asherah and the meaning of the tree is further reinforced. Alma 42:24 says "For behold, justice exerciseth all HIS demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is HER own;" and what does verse 23 say? "...mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement;" So mercy or Asherah claimeth all her own because of the atonement of her son; the fruit of the tree, born into mortality of Mary as the son of the Father.

[@gemelindacjp7976]

The dove is a well-known symbol of the Holy Ghost.

[@terrel_shumway]

​@@gemelindacjp7976who is male, we know from 2 Nephi 11. But I am certain that Heavenly Mother was watching.

[@terrel_shumway]

If a tree is a symbol of Heavenly Mother, consider who was with Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, and who held him (the cross was a tree) even when the Father had to withdraw His presence. The nails pierced the cross too.

[@katykristensen302]

Lots of interesting hypotheses to research this year. Last month a phrase stood out to me and I wrote it on my mirror, "“I am desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know.". I think I'm starting to.

[@gustavoabalos3783]

beautiful stuff!!! open my mind and give me light, thanks so much.

[@jacobhealey8280]

Dave mentions a free resource for learning these languages, a website that where some one teaches you these lessons at 1:31:54. He mentions that he will send you a link please share that link if it is appropriate. I would love to study these things as well.

[@sommerturtle]

I came to the comments specifically looking for the link also. I’ve been trying to learn Hebrew myself for the last week and perked up when I heard this as this is something I’ve sheets wanted to do. Love Mike Day and Dave Butler…Please have them on for more of this. I crave it.

[@rjohnsonxx]

me too. I know I am late to the game. But looking for that website as well

[@WonderWoman-UT]

Love all of this, thank you! I am one of your "8" apparently because I've watched all of these videos. I've been reading David's book Plain and Precious and it is amazing as well. I cannot wait until I am able to read the second one. The scriptures have become so much more full and delicious to me the last few years. Why can't we talk more about this at church too?!

[@WonderWoman-UT]

​@@casadelswain434 I'm not sure what your comment means...? Can you explain your statement? My comment doesn't have anything to do with the seven women laying hold on one man. I was referencing a joke the Paul brothers made, about only 8 people watching all of these episodes with Dave Butler.

[@casadelswain434]

@@WonderWoman-UT I am not sure why I posted it here, I thought I was on the main page 🫣 I’m afraid I’m getting to be old like my momma with technology.

[@Thehaystack7999]

1:18:20 (7 women hold to one man) I had supposed that Tree, Woman(Virgin) represented the Lord’s true Church/family in each dispensation. The one man being Christ, and that He is not physically present for all 7 dispensations. Zechariah 4, where he is being shown 7 lamps which “go to and fro” I consider to be the 7 Dispensation heads and all those prophets of their dispensations, “going down” like Peter James and John in the temple presentation. And two of the lamps or candlesticks are the two witnesses which have Olive Trees on the side of their lamps, this to me illustrated Peter and Joseph Smith Jr, who both held all the keys of the priesthood at one time, both witnessed the resurrected Christ, one from Judah, the other a pure Ephriamite, both sealed their testimonies with their blood, in the streets or path of peace, which was spiritually Sodom (Rome) and Egypt (US) one’s death led to the great apostasy, the other’s death led to the close of the great apostasy and last dispensation of the fullness of time, they are bookends. One from the Bible record of Judah, the other of the record of Manasseh. Yes I am sure we will have two more witnesses that may fulfill this more literally in the coming years and perhaps the Tav of eclipses may indicate this sealing event and gospel being taken from the gentiles and going to the Jews, but there is much revealed in the temple, and temple texts which we are given not to be fun feel good stories. Mary and her story it seem Jesus used this to illustrate the Restoration, the Virgin church, criticized for “looking” as though she broke covenant, looking tainted, but truly is pure and virgin, just like the Restored church is criticized, called a tainted gospel. But the original church/virgin sold its virtues for the intoxication of the world, for the appeal of the world and became a harlot.

[@gingersnaps215]

That’s the fun thing about symbols and symbolic language: many potential layers, and many potential meanings! I’m fairly certain Symbol is God’s preferred language, and there’s no wonder that “squishy” (as Mike calls it) Hebrew is the “original” (as far as we know) language of scripture 😊

[@MichaelGMoney]

Before actually watching this video, I finished up David's second book last week, and I was deep in thought. What to make of the changes from the first temple to the second and so on. Maybe some of the changes were necessary, maybe not all of the previous practices were aligned with God. For example, it's believed that the israelites used to practice child sacrifice, and then there is the whole possible sacred conception ordinance between the high priest and the virgin/prophetess. If we believe that we are the true church here on the earth, maybe everything has been leading up to this moment. There's still truth to be found within the first temple rituals such as a mother in heaven, and theosis, and the receiving of greater light and knowledge and such, just as there are truths to be found amongst other religions today. Yet we believe we have the whole picture. Maybe not. I definitely know for myself, our temple practices are, besides my relationship with Christ, the main reason I stay in the church. Idk. I'm rambling. Maybe nothing was wrong with the first temple practices. Maybe our church will go through the same division, experiencing a neo-deuteronomical reform (I hope not)

[@madvinmryk]

I tend to agree with your last two statements.

[@tiffanyseavy565]

No. If you think the church now is going to go through some sort of neo-deuteronmical reform, you haven't paid attention. It's in the book of Mormon and doctrine and covenants that this is the last dispensation. A sifting, yes, but as long as you stay with the main body and the prophets, you will not be deceived. That is one thing that bothers me in this video. Some people may believe the church can "fall" again and follow some modern (false) "Lehi" into the wilderness 👎🏼👎🏼

[@terrel_shumway]

Believing you have the whole picture is a dead giveaway that you don't. We can only be exalted as fast as we gain knowledge, hence Nephi's frustration expressed in 2 Nephi 32:4.

[@marystosich9204]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[@mother2midwife]

It was bugging me SO badly... I knew Mike's name from somewhere... Talking Scriptures ❤ I want to geek out on this." LOVE it!!!

[@joannasnyder107]

I’m excited to study the scriptures through this new lens! So many insights coming to mind already - like when Christ curses the fig tree 😱 Totally geeking out; I might explode 🤯

[@jeramiecrabtree897]

I love your channel!! I would also love to get the name of that language class you were talking about, if it's something you can share... Keep up the good work guys!

[@alexisholman7676]

Did he send you the link for learning Hebrew? Can you share it? 🙏

[@hungryjoebbq]

First off! I loved these last 3 videos! I’ve learned so much, even if some of this is “just Dave’s theory” as he said, haha! Now a few things I wanted to mention 1st - I noticed this year during my study of CFM that Nephi called the iron rod the “word of God” and this was the first time I didn’t think “words of the prophets, scriptures, and revelation”, but “that means Jesus”. I hadn’t seen this video yet, but it seemed significant to me at the time, now I feel like I understand so much more now on the topic! 2nd - Thought I’d point out that the Las Vegas temple does not have a plant in the center of the Celestial room. However, the theme of the LV temple is the palm tree, and you can see its design in there as well as all throughout the temple. Also, it’s my favorite temple for many reasons (not to mention my dad was a temple sealer there until he passed away a year from tomorrow on The morning of General Conference). One thing in particular is it has one unique feature compared to any other temple I’ve seen. It has an outside atrium only accessible by entering the temple, and is surrounded by the building. There is one tree (maybe 2?) and a fountain in that space, and I always loved that space. You don’t need a recommend to access that space, so I grew up going there many times as a kid.

[@gwendolynwyne]

Yes! [in the intro] Could the Matriarchal order + the Patriarchal order = the order of the Son of God, also known as the Holy Order of Matrimony? Excited to listen to this.

[@cindlou7335]

Wow!

[@haydenschaap]

Woah…that’s…dang. Here, let me get the door for you haha

[@gwendolynwyne]

@@haydenschaap 😂😂

[@terrel_shumway]

Absolutely. The hierarchical priesthood organization that administers the Church is the tiniest part of the Priesthood. The temple endowment and sealing are the oath and covenant mentioned in D&C 84. Women are equal partners in every sealing.

[@curious.learner24]

I watched all the episodes previously, on my 2nd time through 👍🏻. Great stuff and have shared with several members.

[@hungryjoebbq]

Had a really cool moment and wanted to share thanks to these conversations! I bought Dave’s books and just finished “Plain and Precious things”. Just starting “The Goodness and the Mysteries”. Anyway, was reading in Mosiah 18 this week when I noticed some heavy parallels with Lehi’s vision and experience. Just saying-there is a fountain of water, trees, and if you jump back to Mosiah 11, where we first start learning about King Noah, he puts new priests in charge, essentially takes over the temple-worship by doing so, and they build many “elegant and spacious” buildings. Alma’s story is basically a successful “what if” of Lehi’s own story, riddled with symbols straight from his vision Also just consider what Abinadai teaches to the priests of Noah. Examples of ancient prophets providing signs and types of the coming of Christ. Why? Because they were trying to lead the people astray and deny Christ, or deny the coming of Christ. Anyway, don’t want to write too much. This is already getting long lol

[@SplinkyWonderful]

I love all of this, but are we suggesting that God was angry that the Jews stopped worshipping the divine mother? Because that’s obviously incorrect. The prophets today make that clear. Margaret Barker is wrong on that point (Dan Peterson also disagrees with her on that). The Tree of Life has multiple interpretations (one of which is the divine mother), but first and foremost it represents Christ. The Book of Mormon makes clear that the main thing the Jews had lost was the truth that Jehovah would come down and be born of a woman as a child and die. That’s the main thing Nephi is being taught there. I think all the symbolism is spot on and Dave is incredible.

[@darby_cook]

This gives me a lot more enthusiasm for a Christmas tree as a way to bring the symbolism of a light bearing tree into my home even as a home-centered, church-supported observance of the Tree of Life! Also I love the thoughts that were expressed about the matriarchal priesthood including how Christ was anointed by a woman. Perhaps the patriarchal priesthood is more outward facing where the matriarchal ordinances are the strength of the home-centeredness of domestic religious worship. And this is perfected (or rendered whole/complete) in the sealing of a couple in the New and Everlasting Covenant.

[@casdraws]

I’ve worked wondered is giving birth is like a natural ordinance. Like how the leviteds inherited the priesthood(gods power and authority.) women have the natural power and authority to transition spirits to bodies. It’s also interesting how women often also assist/attend the dying transition into death. Like a bridge from different states of being.

[@johnrowley310]

Maybe copulation is the highest form of godly worship. Could it be that having sex with 14 year old girls was the highest form of Mormon priesthood.@@casdraws

[@MegRITTMANIC]

I absolutely agree.

[@danpiedra3910]

The BOM had endless levels of insights for those who wish to dig for further truth and spiritual growth.

[@johnrowley310]

Could you show me where it talks about baptism for the dead???

[@danpiedra3910]

@@johnrowley310 Baptisms for the dead are not taught in the Book of Mormon. Baptism for the dead is mentioned in (1 Corinthians 15:29) as proof of a physical resurrection. Clearly, the saints at Corinth were practicing baptisms for the dead, yet they were struggling with the concept of the resurrection. Paul and Peter, other apostles, and leaders of the ancient Church, taught very clearly that there most certainly was a resurrection. However, the practice of baptisms for the dead is not an incorrect tradition or belief. It was a part of the ancient Church and a necessary part of providing equal access of baptism for all of God's sons and daughters, even those who have passed on before hearing the message of Christ. To better understand this you need to take into account what actually happens upon dying. The physical body may be cremated or buried, but the spirit of the individual continues to live and proceeds to a spiritual realm where it awaits the resurrection of all mankind where the body and spirit will be reunited. The Lord himself (Christ) taught to the spirits of the dead while in that spirit world prior to his resurrection (see 1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6). The Gospel of Jesus Christ is taught therein to all spirits who depart this life. There, they may continue to exercise their agency to accept or decline the message of Christ. However, in order to be baptized, they must have the ordinance done on earth on their behalf - hence the practice of being baptized for the dead.

[@terrel_shumway]

​​​​@@johnrowley310I don't know of a direct discussion of vicarious ordinances, but Alma 40-42 introduces the concept of a place for the deceased to await resurrection and judgement. Moroni 8 makes it clear that baptism is not required for those without law. See also Mosiah 6:2. The Lamanites in Alma 24:24-25 would need baptism, but the following verses make it clear that they were ok. That should be enough to figure out what questions to ask (2 Nephi 32:4). Note that Joseph didn't learn the doctrine until he asked.

[@terrel_shumway]

​​@@johnrowley310of course there could be something in the 53,000+ pages of the record that Mormon abridged, but he didn't consider it essential to include it, because he knew it could be learned by revelation.

[@bridgetsheffer]

Holy! I ❤❤❤❤❤❤ this so much!!!

[@suzannaylor653]

First, I think the church as a whole receives the light and knowledge it is ready for as a whole. However, as individuals, we have the prerogative to seek for more light and knowledge for ourselves. HOWEVER, you better make sure that you aren't being deceived in the process! The line between truth and trickery is a sharp edged sword.

[@6kjaro]

So, what is the website of the guy Mike Day mentioned for learning Ancient Near East stuff online?

[@katykristensen302]

This portion at an hour in reminds me of the film Lady in the Water. It is a Chinese parable with a guild of 7 women. Have you heard of it?

[@avaklingler8916]

Interesting! Only the guild of those 7 gifted women could return the “lady” safely to her home.