DBG: Holley Carb Secret, From Mark Campbell, Worth 3 Tenths Off 8 Second Car? 10 Page Tuning Guide

[@robertgardner1259]

Awesome video DB, most appreciated.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Your welcome RG

[@Chris-mk5qs]

Priceless info ! Thanks DBG !

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Cannot guarantee results. But to me worth a try, worst case scenario. New metering blocks.

[@Chris-mk5qs]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I'd like to see a before and after dyno run

[@Chris-mk5qs]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland wonder if Bob Glidden did this ?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@Chris-mk5qs me too

[@brracing7861]

Do it Tim. I have similar but different mods specifically for Rochester Quadrajet and solved Tuning issues.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yes I will try it in that 850. Need to test before mods. Thanks

[@karter9908]

CARB SHOP in Ontario was awesome, back in the day....

[@davidleonard8369]

Didn’t Mike Jones own it?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I remember them too. Never had a carb from them.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I have heard of Mike too. Did you do cams too?

[@nathandean6639]

I’ve done this mod on my list 3916 950 3 barrel and made quite a difference in response . It still has the original two hole emulsion set up . Compared to my 780 which had the stock size main well and .140 angle well and was no where near as responsive as the 950 . And I have a AF gauge to monitor and you can see the difference in how quickly they richened up . Now I have yet to try at the track but the seat of the pants it’s a big difference . My motor is a 408w with afr 185 heads and an air gap intake in a grand marquis lol.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Nathan. I like the Grand Marquis. Nice sleeper. Good to hear this worked well. Not sure on experience as no one I know has mentioned it. Thanks for the reply. Good luck with the big girl. 🏁

[@Bbbbad724]

Man that is a carb! I had to do some work on my 780 vaccum secondary and the 850 I used to run. The 3V is a great carb with all of the mass in motion on anything at 6-700 hp. My 850 was just a roar and it moved, it was surprising how you never felt the secondaries kick in but the road got narrow very quickly. The front wheels came up and it was kind of disorienting in the way the sound came up but it didn’t seem like you’re going that fast and a glance down and the speedo needle is gone, and the signal to let off finally got through 😆That was really fun. To think it started out as a 360fron a 70s pickup, had the 3 web main bracing and a 410 crank and I drilled it for cross bolt mains, bored it .030 over and put the good TRW popups that were for a 390 but they were .100 out of the hole. A 416 at 12.5:1. Someone talked me into selling it. So I bought another one and it was even nicer, and I had another 360,70s block with the 3 rib mains and found a set of 2618 alloy I can’t remember the brand but the crown was perfect for a 428 crank and with LeMans rods with ARP cap screws and a great lightening and internal balance. The same C8AX SS cam as before and man it ran even better, 13.5:1 and a dome that fit the heads better and the rings were really good.That thing was a menace! I miss the old days! 😂

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@XTT162 yep the good days

[@UnityMotorSportsGarage]

Great Stuff! I remember soaking all that in when you had Mark on!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Andy. One of those modifications that I cannot attest too. Some have mentioned that it worked great. Any experience with it?

[@peskypeet]

​@@DragBoss351Cleveland I'd love to see someone to do that mod on a milder build. A low 8 sec car is no joke but what about say.. a high 11 sec car?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@peskypeet I have that things have been changed with newer carbs , but cannot confirm that. But yes I have a carb to try, but no time for it yet.

[@johnsalvaterra3116]

Hi Tim! I went out bought a wire drill index and drilled out my 4500 dominator, after watching the first video with Mark. It's going on the 427 tunnelport.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Nice deal John. I had never heard of anyone doing this mod yet. Love to hear the results. And live to see that tunnel port, love those bad ass engines. 💯

[@cammontreuil7509]

Like to see it running.

[@Bbbbad724]

I really want an FE Power rectangular port Tunnel Port with the angled pushrods to get them out of the port window that flow almost 500 cfm with matching the valley and a TP intake, and Jay Brown, the designer and company owner even makes a 2x4 TP and a pair of Tunnel Rams.

[@Bbbbad724]

@@cammontreuil7509 Me too and that 3V is a rare carb. My 850 is the best I have ever had, I was never so lucky to find a 3V . But those 416s in the 68 Mustangs were wild. The 4.33s with a Locker 33 splines. Back then. Those were just very wicked street cars. I ran 3 inch Thrush header mufflers that were like glass packs but it was a steel packing that was lightly packed with collector extensions and had Clay Smith Woodpecker cigar clamped in his teeth. Cheater Slicks with homemade tubs in the back. The days! Tim, the Cougar is truly bitchin!!! 🚀

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@Bbbbad724 a tunnel wedge with ported medium riser heads will get you there, FE, fricken expensive.

[@anthonyiacovino2898]

Great info Tim.looks like worth while mods.funny the carb.i have is a Holley that was on my 4vcc cleveland in my 85 mustang gt,in the 90s.I took thet carb to the carb shop in Ontario in person.i always dealt with Randy for years.they installed down leg boosters .08 was last time is spoke to Randy.helped me set up carb for our track Cobra.(yellow 33).our driver said it was the fastest its ever been.small world Tim.great vid.thanks.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Rock on Anthony, always good to hear from you and your experience. Good solid move. Not sure they are even open anymore. Yes small world for sure. Stay tuned

[@cammontreuil7509]

Got to hand it to you again. Excellent video and info. I'd do more myself, but I'm in 2 bowling leagues, play heavy metal guitar, salmon and steelhead trout fishing. Down to only building about 30 engines a year now. Really slowed down.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks. Yes don’t be in a rush. Lots to live.

[@uncledave56]

Just started watching and pause at 3 tenths increase of 8 second ET car. Traction, converter, many other conditions effect ET. I think better indication would be increase in MPH of carb mods. Now I will continue to watch, see if I put my foot in my mouth speaking too soon. will comment at conclusion..

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No your right big claim, but I did not say it. Interesting none the less and that’s why I would like to try it

[@chrisallmond6867]

I wonder if this is the Mark Campbell who interviewed me at Crane Cams during the Mikronite Days?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That I can’t say. He was there in early 70s and beyond. Have to ask. Him. Never heard back from you Chris on the live chat?

[@markcampbell2603]

Yes, I worked at Crane and Crane/Mikronite from late 2001 to late 2007! Mikronite was a fantastic process but with too many issues to get product liability insurance! MC

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@markcampbell2603 Mark so good to see you here. Looks like someone who knew you recognized your name and that’s great. We need to do another live chat. My life is back to normal and keeping busy. I will email you. Thanks for being here my friend

[@chrisallmond6867]

@@markcampbell2603 I remember. That interview was a good experience for me. It was in late 2007. Little did I know that Crane was headed to bankruptcy a few months later, so thankfully that opportunity didn't materialize. It's good hearing from you though!

[@markcampbell2603]

@@DragBoss351ClevelandAnytime you like Tim. Reading these comments, it is amazing how people misinterpret statements that I made! We need to clear some of those misconceptions. Mark

[@michaelclanton1152]

I am using 2 x 1250 cfm Doms 3 circuit on my 8-71roots 440 mopar and I had to mess with the intermediate jets. I need to get to the track to get the results on the O2 meter. 80532-1is my carb from Holley. When I roll from a stop sign I get 12 psi boost at 1/3 throttle.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That is a lot of boost for rolling through stop sign, how much boost does it make ? Yes get to the track. Let me know, I would like to watch you. We can a cool track video. I have never to delve into a carb that deep. I must have good luck

[@michaelclanton1152]

@DragBoss351Cleveland I get 14#boost .most carbs just need small adjustments but not 1 size fits all.the transition slot on 1 was too rich so I got a brass set screws an drilled it and tapped the carb to make it adjustable.

[@michaelclanton1152]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3jcg2uhpNWMbLs here is a drive in my car and at 1:15 < you can see if you ease into it you stay out of boost[sm gage is boost in the middle] my afr was 14.5 to 15/1 I had been changing the intermediat air bleeds where I needed to change the idle air bleed figuring the idle circuit rpm would not go that far but it will.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@michaelclanton1152 your a thinker Michael, glad your here. We can all benefit from your experience. Thanks much.

[@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852]

Be careful with those C4 transmissions, they're not named after explosives on accident.😁

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I have had great luck with them. 😳 🧨

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland same. A truck short shaft C-4 is stronger. More in the clutch pack. It's been 30 years since I built one. I wonder if it can be adapted to a long shaft.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@cammontreuil7509 don’t need it. Can make any clutch pack you want. Not sure what shaft your taking about. Need good marginalized input shaft after 700 hp

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland truck C 4 has a short shaft. Car obviously has a long and a slip in yoke. Truck has a bolt on u joint.

[@Matthew-uj4zx]

When built right with the correct knowledge like Tim, they never really "blow" up, just start burning clutch packs. They can be a regular maintenance transmission, but that's only in my experience when running 750plus HP. I couldn't think of another transmission with similar size clutch plates that can handle the horsepower that they do. That makes them an exceptional transmission. We must remember, from the factory they were never designed for the power levels we put through them today.

[@theshed8802]

Seeing the 50cc pumps leads me to suspect that it may have been setup for alcohol. I've watched Mark's episode about 3 times now, and still keep finding something that I missed.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I have seen many gas with them, in my own. At high rpm launch, your already used up some of the pump shot. I will get him back Greg.

[@bobwhite4344]

i've read about these types of mods before on dominators. interesting vid.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks bob, I have to try it. But once you go there can’t return.

[@mikecurtis2585]

Nice a lot of great information 👍👍👍

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Mike appreciate it.

[@Hitman-ds1ei]

How many clowns are going to try to modify their 11 second street car carb to 8 second drag car specs lol, having excellent atomisation is mega important for street motors let alone those with non heated plenum manifolds, holley developed annular discharge carbs for a damn good reason not out of boredom !

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Right, said it works on all Holleys regardless of ET, I find it hard that 8 second car would pick up that much. Your right need best atomization. I never had any luck with anular discharge boosters.

[@billfioretti3013]

Braswell and others were noted for tweaking- modifying- 7320's and 6464's. That included increasing main well volumes. We ran a pair of various flow Dominators. On average, we found MAYBE a tenth of a second improvement on our low nine sec./high eight sec. runs. I have a feeling that when Erica Enders car picked up three tenths other changes aside from the carbs went along with those main well increases. Frankly, for most racers an increase in 50-100 cfm airflow in the carb or simply just changing out the carb. and getting the A/F ratio optimized for a particular combination will yield equally productive results. Generally this can be applied to most carbureted race vehicles. Lots of opinions here. From effective mods. to Voodoo science and negligible improvements. I am familiar with Mark's Tuning High Performance Race Engines outline. If even only one suggestion works for you, thank Mark. Personally, I'm in Mark's corner on much of his advice and not so much on some others. I agree with The Dragboss. Don't endorse it if you haven't tried it yourself. But you're free to do so. My opinion, proceed carefully. It's your time and your money.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Right on Bill. I can’t comment on that kind of pick up, plus this may be older carbs. Not sure about new stuff or billet metering blocks. Just one of those enter at your own risk. I myself like the look of all those mods, billet this and that, thinned and lightened. Thanks, off to cedar point. 😊

[@pontiac411]

If I was unsure about what to do with the carb I would send it to mark whitener as he has won enough engine masters challenge competitions to prove he knows how to set up a carburetor before the engine goes into competition. 5:30

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You can never fault a pro builder. Mark does great carb work.

[@Bbbbad724]

I have my 3310 780 cfm ( has metering blocks on both ends) from a 375hp 396 Chevy. And it is a crazy good carb. I had to drill a few things to get that carb to get it to scream. I made that main well that size and it hits! I must have read that. It works.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Bill for the report. Have not heard any experience on this until now.

[@cammontreuil7509]

What is the bolt pattern on that carb ? Is it the same carb used on the Ford's ?

[@Bbbbad724]

@@cammontreuil7509 I have a Holley Street Dominator on my 390+.020 with a 1 inch phenolic spacer. The 3310 is a vacuum secondary carb that will fit any square bore pattern. This 3310 has metering blocks on each end, with jets and provision for a power valve on each end. The 780 had down leg boosters. I customized my main wells(both ends )in the recommended way and milled off the choke horn to the body. Streamlined the boosters. The secondary hits and it pulls so nice! The other 3310 carbs have a metering plate like a 600 and straight leg boosters. They are 750 cfm. You can modify a 750 with a metering block and retain the straight leg boosters. But the 3310 780 cfm was a replacement for the 375 hp 396 that was about 410 if you put a solid cam in it the same size. It works very well on a Ford, especially an FE and the Cleveland. And I was driving a 391 FT dump truck, and I hated that carb, so I put a 3310 I had laying around and man that truck just loved it. I would say of all of the Holleys made, that the 3310 , either type can be tuned to bring out the best in any 400-450 ci engine. The closest that I can think of is the 428 CJ carb , it was a VS carb like the 3310 except that it had Annular boosters in front and straight leg boosters with no metering block on the rear barrels . I used to run the 3310 with the plates on both ends, and I had an 850 DP I used on my 12.5:1-13.5:1 410s a 390 bore with a 428 crank. The 410s would pull the front wheels on my 68 Mustang, actually 416s with 2.19 /1.6 valves and a PortoSonic and a Super Stock C8AX cam. I could get the really good gas at the pump, 104-110 octane. With 4.33 gears I never lugged it and it was loud enough you couldn’t hear it ping, but I am pretty sure they never did. Those were the days of 7200 rpm shifts.

[@markmcmullen1371]

Is there a PDF available of those 10 pages of info that you know of that a person could download ? Thank you, good show and info.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I can email it to you, I will put my email on description. Thanks

[@mikeleschber33]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I must have missed your email. I would love to have the PDF myself.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@mikeleschber33 [e-mail]

[@pontiac411]

I would get your initial timing and your timing curve correct before I would start driilling holes in the primary plates, That's usually a Band-Aid for an improperly tuned setup

[@davidleonard8369]

Always set the secondary throttle plate stop to just crack open just before getting into the transfer slots. A lot of times that’s enough to close the primaries so proper idle circuit function can be achieved.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I agree, 💯 have to make sure all the basics are covered. Not sure about bandaid, according to Mark.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I think it is .030 at the secondary blades. Yes opening them up, helps you keep the primaries closed more.

[@pontiac411]

The one thing he mentions in the last video that I am not sure of the time line and his influence on Erica Ender's Championships, As far as I know her championships have been with fuel injection not carburetors.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Right he said before she won her first championship in pro stock. She won other races with carbs before FI

[@michaelgiglio1571]

Does anyone know if or when Holley changed the metering blockes to flow more and would an 850 be better in anular for street n strip. Approx 500hp. Mike.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Not sure on that one. Someone had said that changed them within last 10!years?

[@michaelgiglio1571]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks Tim. I think that's about right to. The new one's just run better.

[@mrcirino5181]

You say a Cleveland's like 850 double Pumpers. Is that ok a souped-up Cleveland or stroke Cleveland or 408

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Any Cleveland I have had over 377 ci, has had a 1000 cfm dbl pump.

[@uncledave56]

As I understand it these dimensions are for a Dominator. What about lower RPM drivability with the removal of emulsion tubes? How do you tune through RPM range going down the track with no emulsion tubes? This is sounding like a modification for a high RPM only engine, such as Pro Stock. Can you make a link to copy and print of the 10 page tuning guide. Thanks.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Uncle, he was saying to put the tubes back in and they can be tuned too. It sure how to make a link. Ideas? You can email me and I can send it.

[@mikeleschber33]

Would you video and share with us the process when doing your carb?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Sure, I will tear carb down and see how the inside looks. Thanks Mike

[@cammontreuil7509]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland many of us are interested in you doing that.

[@mikeleschber33]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland That would help us understand the process better. Thanks for all the great information you give us!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@mikeleschber33 sure thing, be fun experimenting. Thanks for the interest Mike.

[@mikeleschber33]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I have been looking for some information on tuning the 4150 or 4500 style carb. I know no one wants to give away their secrets, but the air bleeds and pump tuning would be nice. The information in this video is excellent! Thanks again!

[@chimpfoos65]

TIM IF THEY KNEW ALL THAT why did they not send them out from the factory that way ? I wonder

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I thought it was after they got a lot of complaints? Cost to revise, some could tune and improve. I put a link to whole interview. He may explain better. Thanks

[@peskypeet]

Indeed. If mark was still there and he knew to make the mainwells bigger at that time why wouldn't they change them in all the 4150 & Dominator carbs from then forward?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@peskypeet from memory he said that they make them on the rich side so no lean outs. Not sure otherwise

[@peskypeet]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland 👍Thanks for the reply but I was asking about the mainwell modifications. It's ok though. It's not like he's right there to ask.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@peskypeet I get it, thanks. Glad you’re here. Appreciate you

[@rickbrandt9559]

how does 1 get the 10 page guide

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I can send it to you. But at the end of the video Rick.

[@rickbrandt9559]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland sorry thought this was a re post, guess I can read the screen,was hoping for a pfd downlod, ThanksDBG

[@brianholcomb6499]

If you don’t know carburetors inside & out! You probably shouldn’t be fcking with it! If you dyno at a shop like Bischoffs, they will get the carb right for your engine! Something as simple as not getting the new plugs sealed back up, can cause fuel leaks, (fires!) air leaks ect! He was a carb expert! Of course it’s nothing to him! That’s like a brain surgeon saying, ahh, it’s no big deal!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Luckily I assisted in Heart surgery for 13 years… your right, better make sure what you do is done right. Or else. Thanks Brian

[@troypatterson3673]

More people will screw up their carbs than help with his advice

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks for your opinion.

[@peskypeet]

Troy? Are you still doing carbs?

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

,,, BSFC, ,,, Fisher Scientific .

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Brake specific fuel consumption? Fisher scientific?

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland ,,, just helping the site .