DBG: Rip 769 HP Ford 351 Cleveland, Now We Now The Rest Of The Story...No Band-Aid Fix

[@lykinsmotorsports]

Replacement parts at my cost.....

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Brent, I deeply appreciate the help and support. After quick ck things over we can chat. Thanks for being there for me my friend.

[@danielwilson6665]

It’s great to see Lykins Motorsports along for the ride. Brent’s expertise with Clevelands is clearly evident in each one that he builds.

[@billfioretti3013]

"A Friend in need is a Friend indeed." Come on guys. Follow Brent Lykins lead!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thank you to all of you who have helped so far. I appreciate you Bill. Thanks for carrying the banner. Ford….

[@Gdone]

Keeping the Cleveland going, top level support

[@jamesford2942]

When you replace the pickup you should put a support on it bolted to the block or main cap.

[@fredkelso1089]

you need a couple things Tim, a swivel hook on the hoist and a foot pump for the jack, or a helper operating it, you could have pulled the pan in the car, but much after that and you would have had to pull the motor anyways

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That’s how I look at it. Also the picker I have has a slow leak, when raised will slowly go down. So have to keep pumping and shifting. Back and forth. Need a helper Fred.

[@tomschultz2833]

Couple of years and she's going to be building engines. Cutest tear down assistant ever 💜

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Tom, you may be right. I will have her help me tear it down actually both girls. Should be fun and learning experience, I love my little girls.❤️

[@SpaceMoviePopcorn]

My autometer pro light is my friend. I have a 30psi sending unit because my sbc never even idles below 40psi. I ever see a red flash it means STOP! Just a suggestion...they're inexpensive and easy to install. Glad this wasn't way worse for you. Looks like you'll be up and running soon 👍

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Great idea for sure. Will find the one I like and install. Glad it wasn’t worse too. 🏁👍👍

[@peterschaefer2946]

well it just goes to show you dont need to be dead to be stiff .great to see the whole family chipping in on the tear down thats the great thing about drag racing chin up move on another lesson learnt.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That’s what I’m talking about Peter. Live and learn. Rebuild with family help and get ready for the next battle.

[@bobwhite4344]

very sorry for you. looks like pickup tube may have failed in the heat affected zone beside the weld. the extra bracing or gussets you are proposing should help. best wishes.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yes, very unfortunate, but it shows the weak point Bob. That’s a lesson Lord. I made for the first time in 40 years. Get a custom-made pan. I talked to. Stefs yesterday, I can send them my pan and an oil pump and they will take care of everything. This might be a better improvement than me trying to make it better. Although I know what I would do would probably be sufficient.

[@fknows1]

hope the bearing never grabbed for you, and you caught it in time with no major damage to crank, good flush, linish and new bearings

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Nope needs bottom half.

[@jeffsnyder2051]

i know you will skip the bandaid! nice to see the kids involved they will benefit alot.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yep, pulled it off quick and in the trash, just like the crank and rods.

[@mikevallandigham8669]

Major Bummer.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

General bummer. Nothing lost nothing gained.

[@No1414body]

Back in the early days when I ran Clevelands and small blocks, I would twist off the oil pump drive shafts, I remember I had a 302 where the thrust surface was so worn that you could grab the balancer and nove the crank 1/4 of an inch. Yea I heard you talk about bad lifter, I got into Valve float and knocked the clip out of a solid lifter that got sucked up in the oil pump, that killed my last Cleveland, ran Windsor blocks for awhile but similar problems. Hated those little oil pump drive shafts, I even ran the half in ones but they would break off at the pump. Wish I would have went to an external pump.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Wow that sucks Jerry. Never had an issue with drive shaft. Been running billet one for years. Just installed new one on this build. Learned a lot, the hard way.

[@christophergriffin8344]

I could not discern from the video if the weld broke or right next to the weld.(In the heat effected zone). Which is more likely. Such an awesome engine, will be better upon reassembly🤘🇺🇸 Them Melling Select pumps have advantages over the reguler line. I don't know if you worked your pump or not.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

The pick up broke right after the weld, this was the best running engine I’ve ever had. We’ll get her back going. Mailing does not make any select series. I talked with stefs yesterday, they want me to send the pan and an oil pump and they can hook me up. Seriously thinking about doing this. That would be the only change to my oiling system.

[@StainlessTIG2]

Great video. Sucks about the pickup tube. I like pulling the transmission with the engine. Your cougar was screaming.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks. It does not suck no more….oil. I used to do that, but with a motor plate no need. Not sure which is easier.

[@fredkelso1089]

Tim that pickup is a vibration break, make some brackets that will go from the pickup screen end to the pump or main bolt

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

New pan and pick up from stefs, let a pro make it better.

[@geneticrex]

Watching your crew lend a hand really warms my heart. Definitely the right move replacing the compromised parts. Freshen it up, slam it back in, get some good air to run in and ring up a new best.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thank you. Trying to teach them things they will never learn anywhere else. Not just engines but about life and how to deal with problems. Control is key, be the leader not the follower I tell them. We got this, it will be better than ever.

[@geneticrex]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland Eggxactly.....

[@TomTWilson]

Been there friend, I bandiaded a 408 after the same thing.... put a rod out and destroyed the engine at 4500rpm...Strip her down and repair properly.........

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No doubt, your right on. band aid not applicable here. She will come out swinging.

[@patrickspeer2990]

Hey, I was just going to say hi for several reasons. First, I live in Albuquerque, NM right now and have personal friends that were personal friends of Dyno Don. Second my personal friends have a 1969 Mercury Cougar XR7, 351, Windsor I think. And last I grew up in Cleveland, obviously familiar with Sandusky and the islands. I actually grew up very near Elyria in Lorain County. I hope to move back to Ohio in the future

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Patrick for commenting. Sounds like you’re well connected. Love hearing this story. Move back, only half hr away from Elyria. See you soon

[@MsKatjie]

Bro, did you do what I do and bend to fit it?! Tim, easy for me to say but I never would of used the welded part. Have had " repaired " water jackets, fail on one heating cycle. Welds change the metal around them and if oil was there at the micro level, it will fail. I feel for you big.time! I am doing an engine after 25 years, since my first open chamber 2V sludge motor and if it does fail for whatever reason, it will not be the machinists' fault. This is about you, so sorry DragBoss! Enough of me but thanks for helping all 351C builders. Not just with the content to follow but for all your fantastic work on the subject. The number of 351Cs, that have come to life and lived thanks to : you, your wonderful assistances, unreal /switched on guests; are no doubt many, Tim. Best wishes, Ads. I would have to be sedated and go on a weeks bender.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks for the condolences. I am sick about it, but have to look at the good. The lessons learned and no damage so to speak. I never bent it, not welded so to speak but brazed from Moroso. I thank you for the kind words you speak. I try my best to help others with my videos and experience I have. I am not some pro. Just a guy in his shed, with a love of Cleveland’s and racing and cars. This will be even better than ever. Good luck with your build, glad my channel helps.

[@rogerstill719]

I hit send and then she asked the question... WOW

[@johnnydanger57]

Bummer! The pick-up tube definitely needs reinforcement along the length, or at least at the pick-up grid.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You got that right Johnny, I’m not sure if I’m going to do that myself, I did talk to stefs yesterday, they asked me to send them a oil pan and a pick up and they will make me something. I’ll never have to worry about. Versus me trying to make that pick up better. PS I was like shiny aluminum.

[@aguyinnc2865]

Wow, sorry Tim, I know you've put a lot of work in this car. Just glad it didn't kick anything out of the bottom end and cause you to lose control. It's good news if you didn't crack the block, it can be fixed. I know you'll get it back together and it will be faster than ever!

[@brracing7861]

Pretty crazy failure Tim. Never seen a pickup tube break off on a Ford like that. I would want 4130 Chromoly seamless tubing to make a New Pickup tube. On that 454 Chevy pickup of mine I bought a Fancy Moroso BBC Ol pump 80 psi. They TIG Welded the Heck out of it and its braced 2 times with a Widage tray above the pickup Tigged on then bolts to the pump cover.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

BandR, the craziest. I have never seen it either. But common in racing and I missed the message. I know. The choice is either I fix it with bracing which I know it will be fine. I did talk to Stan at stefs yesterday. He said he could take care of everything. Make a new pan much better than what I have, send a new oil pump and they will place it in the right area and braze everything. Versus doing it myself. Darin Morgan told me yesterday that windage teas loose power I think that tree may have contributed at least in a vibration effect, but it’s evident the harmonics are present, trying to break this oil pick up every time it makes a pass. PS my old engine builder Bob who is now 82 is coming out of retirement. Help me get this back together. I think you may remember him from his other episodes he’s been in.

[@brendavanorden9550]

Hate to say that old style pickup tube caused all your grief. Many times the old part do well, but one like this comes more often then I can recall. I use modified Swageloc fittings in all my engines. Plus a tac weld.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It sure did. Grief stricken, but lucky. Going with a new stefs pan and pick up.

[@hoedemakerbart]

😢it keeps raining here in Europe Tim, summer is not breaking through, might become a bad year. There was record rain in southern Germany, and the rivers are high here. Hoping for 2 months of nice weather anyway...😮 Greetings to your family!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Greetings back to you, my European friend. That’s pretty bad weather. No eight weeks of good weather saddening. But do what you Gotta do to try to get things done get back on the Autobahn Bart.

[@hoedemakerbart]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland not in a hurry. Working on the chevelle now to.. hoping to get the body done in august. Then its interior time

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@hoedemakerbart well keeping busy. Now I can work on 409c, 354c, Jack Roush engine and 69 Mustang. In the 80s now.

[@hdvictoryford5329]

Like me I love that you have your kids there helping. It always takes a lot longer, but well worth the time. My middle guy turned out to be a very good mechanic and to this day, I'm 74, he still tells people my Dad taught me. Great work. And should say that was the first time I ever saw an oil pick up break like that wow.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks hd, at my age in no hurry as you can tell by my channel, and love the Bossettes to help, but if I need to get something done, I ain’t waiting around for the paint to dry. Bad break, pun intended

[@johnelliott7375]

I feel your pain because I have unfortunately been up and down for 40 years now and I'm going to say that it's not as easy as people who don't do that kind of work think it is. A lift does wonders and I will say that I really like the drive on 4 post but it's preference for what you are doing and how often you are doing it. Back to enjoying the video and hello and good bye Drag Boss family!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I know, me too. Always worked on my back. I would like to have a drive on. Things happen when they happen. We all say hello, glad you enjoy the video. Stay tuned. 💯🏁🇺🇸

[@robertwest3093]

Darin Morgan is the GOAT cylinder head guy. I didn’t know that he did street stuff. I thought he was working for pro teams? You have one of the nicest and cleanest Cougars I’ve laid eyes on!👌

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks, Robert, he works at BES, I’m met him through an email, and we’ve been friends for the past few years. So we’ve been working on some projects together. Hopefully you saw the secret A3 heads on this channel that he did talk about custom. he works at BES. Those secret A3 heads, are going on a 427 aluminum Cleveland that’s at that shop now. Plan is just 850 hp. Thank you it’s the first car I’ve owned, my buddy painted it 40 years ago. I don’t think I’ve ever washed it in about 10 years.

[@treyrags]

Have to look at the positive. Could have been much worse. I would try to fab a thicker tube and/or a gusseted one like you showed.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@treyrags I sure am. I was so lucky no explosion no Injuries. Be back better than before. Old builder on board. Stefs pan and pick up, they will help me.

[@stuartwall8212]

The process used to bend the 90* angle on that tubing needs to be carefully analyzed. If if got stretched while it got bent it would become thinner? Was the material too brittle? It looks like it just snapped at the bend. That is a very poorly engineered pick-up IMO, and the results of the tubing break are also heartbreaking....wallet breaking at least!!! You are a stout soul to take this in stride.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Stuart, I have to look at this from the learning point of view. I found a failure point, I did not get hurt, it does cost money. But no one got hurt and that’s the main thing. The bottom line is any oil pick up should be braced. Any mark on an oil pump pick up, a scratch, Nick, overuse, tightening, every time you make a pass. It’s trying to rip that pick up out of there. They can only be silicon brazed as any type of welding does cause it to harden and crack.

[@James-f3l4b]

You have a very great family , it was special to watch your troops helping you . T.Y.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You’re most welcome. That’s what’s different about this channel, it’s not just about racing, engines, it’s about families and involvement. It’s about teamwork. I’m going to see if I can talk the Bossettes and helping me tear it down today. Stay tuned.

[@richardkersey8993]

Awesome seeing the whole family involved!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I try to get them involved as much as I can. But not force them too. Thanks Richard

[@stevecleveland357]

Sad news Tim. Not the first I’ve heard of this though. My dyno guy says he’s seen a few times. He says harmonics play a factor. Not sure if thats what happened with you but something to check. I think this is one of reasons Kaase built the big neck on 460 oil pump. He would be a good guy to talk to on this subject.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You are so right Steve definitely harmonics. Then add heat, stress, two forces, everything is a factor. I just never ran into this on a Cleveland. I’ve heard about the big BBF issue. he has tough to talk to, I’m still waiting for a callback, from Cliff. I don’t want to hassle them or keep bothering, the door opens when it’s ready. This may be a project for my old engine builder, Bob and myself. Hmmmm😎

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

Cross member out . Tube front half , with light struts , rear sump pan ,,, ! ,,, btw , gotta love a wife that noticed the problem immediately , and the look on your face , priceless ,,, !

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

If I choose, just need different rear crossmember. Wants to use my front sump until I get the 427 aluminum Cleveland done at BES. Then switch to rear. Yes that look. Had to go back and watch. 😳

[@michaelclanton1152]

The trans builder CRT could not fix it so I moved on after3yrs of trying to fix and 5k$to go to a th400. I got 3k for 2 727 in the switch to a Rossler. Life ain't bad I started a weight loss program going well on meds but big $.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Mike , have not been around much. Had to walk away from engine, for a couple of weeks. Working way more than normal. Lots of family stuff. Hoping no tranny issues and I can just freshen motor.

[@michaelclanton1152]

@DragBoss351Cleveland you do what you can and things will progress. Do you make list of things to do in some kind of order and adjust to what life gives you?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@michaelclanton1152 I have to make lists. Good old pen and paper. Keeping things electronically does not work for me. Lotta of good stuff happening Michael. Had to walk away for a bit. Live life.

[@williamrose8944]

Just Crank and Rods got hurt ? Time to update the Engine 10yrs with no overhaul 👍things get old . Check it all out then fix , never fails on Fastest pass or Best 60ft /making more power good thing for parts. You could put Engine from Mustang to Cougar to drive

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No engine is about 5 years old, never raced until now. Been beating on that 2 Bolt block 11 years. I could do that, Be fun too I bet.

[@markdanielt.5100]

The pickup is longer than stock, so vibration and torsion took its toll. Custom pickup tube necessary? Perhaps. Better metallurgy? Definitely. Extra support like the rear sump pickups have? Maybe. Sorry that happened and I hope you get it running again soon. Love seeing the little ones getting their hands dirty. They will carry on the good work after us.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thank you, my friend. The pick up had no support. And with components of heat, stress, harmonics, GF forces, it was all over. We have a plan worked out, so stay tuned for that. Yes I love to see him getting their hands, dirty, too, and thinking and trying to figure things out. Glad you’re here Mark.

[@johnelliott7375]

I'm right there with you on my 88 Cougar XR-7. I can only get 2 helpers and one is 84 and the other one is 82 and I have them for short periods of time. Luckily I have them, I wish that I they could spend more time on the car, I will not complain and take what I am able to get. 😊 They know what they are doing, problem is we all have bad knees and back. Chugging away on it best we can. Should be road worthy by end of the week.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I understand John age are limiting factor now. We have to do what work we can. That’s why it takes me two weeks to get the engine out instead of two hours. It’s a lot of work on your back, up and down, so I take it easy. Good luck with the old cat

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

A testament to the quality engineered into the alloy of your connecting rods, saved your block, pan & cam for sure. Back in the age of factory forged... it's all scrap. Crank's likely salvageable for future street service, with a .010/.020 turn. You'll dig yourself out of that hole, better days ahead. Expensive to go fast, some days better than others. We'll enjoy the follow up posts, in your making it right again.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yea. New bottom end. ie crank and rods. Not messing with that crank. Will make a nice street build. Get two sets of rods, from Molnar and put this crank in another build. Hell got plenty of parts. Yes I have a plan, will make a quick follow up video. Thank Nobody

[@Nobody-ld7mk]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I bottomed out 15 years ago (lightly) in a field at the barn yard track and just cracked my pick up tube. It took all my bearings out & my isky flat tappet too. I've forgot to turn the water pump on & fogged my crank with bearing material. A lot going on in prep to the line, co pilot's exist for a reason. If we had gauges next to our cut off switch's on the back of the car & a crew with an eye on outside readable oil pressure with access to the switch... it wouldn't happen. One thing about problems... there's always something to be learned. I enjoy seeing your little one geared up for surgery with the gloves ready to operate. I have three granddaughters that have all graduated High School, there into going to the track but not so much workin on cars. I've got a set of K-1's at 711 grams I can't get replaced at weight because I was one of the lucky ones that got the lightest set of BBC H-Beams ever made. It's always something.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@Nobody-ld7mk right on. We all can that’s racing and it is. But like you said. I learned a lot from this failure. I also know I am not the only one that never heard this about a Cleveland. I have a few changes I will implement. Which will improve my safety and the Cleveland’s. The little ones hopefully will continue to enjoy the time in DBG with Dad. They learn things they will never learn at school. Grateful Tom Molnar (k1) is helping me with new crank and rods, and will talk to him about a couple of future builds. He is a humble man. Always something to learn.

[@arkhsm]

MAN, that's one tough factory 2 bolt block Tim, but yeah, strip it down and check/replace, for piece of mind. Donn Rhode would of been proud that ie went 9.32@143 !!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thank you, Adrian, old roadie, with smiling ear to ear trust me. But this is my fault. I should’ve known a week point. Never seen it. I’ve only heard about it now I’ve experienced it. We are going to tear it down and rebuild it. No Band-Aid bring it back 100%. If you remember my old builder, Bob, He’s been in some episodes. I’ve featured. 82 is coming out of retirement and we’re gonna make this thing nastier than it’s ever been. I’m glad you’re here, keep the faith, my friend.🙏

[@mistersniffer6838]

Interesting thought. You said "im dying to find out what that is in the oil pan". I would not EVER want to know what it was, but, ya gotta do what ya gotta do...

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That is a fact, do what you got to do. Dying to know and now wish I did not. 😳

[@mohanperformance.enginerd.1308]

Well. They say even a broken clock is right twice a day. But I am not a clock. I was wrong. I guessed pump shaft. A real bummer it burnt up. Sure didn't take long. Well now you get to do a couple upgrades and make it just a tiny bit faster. Good work Tim.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks, Mohan, the people that thought the driveshaft was broken, was a vast majority. There are a few that mentioned the pick up, in a multitude of other things. It is a bummer, but it’s a learning experience, no one got hurt. The damage is somewhat minimal. And I have help from sponsors to get the parts, my old engine builder, Bob, who you know who he is, is coming out of retirement 82, you think it’s fast now stay tuned.

[@tbirdracer460]

Wow! Broke that pick up right off. Those connecting rods definitely got hot! Hopefully with the good oil your running there isn’t much damage to the crankshaft! A set of rod, rings and bearings, and you’ll be good to go! Great team effort on the family helping and learning! Good times the kids will always remember!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Right on. New bottom end needed. New custom oil pan and pick up from stefs. Done with chances. Yes sir team DragBoss.

[@lmasucci]

Tim I did notice as I was watching the oil pressure gauge on I believe it was the run before the last. The pressure after the burnout was a little erratic going back to 40psi or about idle. It was not smooth. I did not think too much at the time other than maybe the gauge was sticking. Now I think what I saw was the oil pump sucking air where it was cracking. I'll be watching as I have for a while now. Enjoy the gained knowledge, the guests, the grass roots racing terminology and your nicely involved family. Good Luck with the rebuild, and thank You for the channel.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You’re exactly right Lou, I went back and watched tons of the runs and in car stuffing recording it, I can even say it was before that. See the things been running so well, I really only watch the oil pressure when it starts up, sometimes I’ll look down at it. My car has always run the same, as the runs you have seen. Never an issue with running, you see that. But have become lax, my fault. someone said bad weld. I will get my surgical loops on and examine. I appreciate you commenting, I’m trying to have a channel that no one else has, just a normal guy and a normal family, living and learning together. I don’t have much time left on this earth, so I have to give what I can to my kids, things that were taught to me. Survival skills. Common sense. and being a real person living by your word. Our name is our bond, that our family is all we have. The rest material. I enjoy the guest also but I really need to be doing is one a week. Seriously I could spend 8 to 10 hours a day doing this, and have. very time-consuming, mentally and physically. But I have you guys to support me and my family. And it is entertainment or lessons learned. But like I always say you’re always seeing and learning something new at DragBossGarage.💯🏁❤️🇺🇸

[@jesse75]

In any performance Cleveland, I run two oil gauges. One off the front, one off the back. The front always has a steady pressure, the one on the back of the block bounces back and forth a bit.

[@iggyfritz7150]

Well there was some damage but for the rpm it was spinning it held together surprisingly well. I had a 4 bolt main 351cj that managed to throw a rod thru the side of the block. 😢 And awsome job Eliana! She sure is a take charge kind 👍 Thanks again for sharing I will be watching for the Cat to be back on the track that almost rhymes 😂 God bless you all

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Exactly exactly Iggy, these are all lessons to learn for all who watch the channel. That little Bossette thinks she’s the boss. I like it. Shows she wants to take control and get things done. Great skill to have. It ain’t a Cat in the Hat, but it will be back at the track.

[@iggyfritz7150]

@DragBoss351Cleveland cat in the hat 😂 I like it like that ! Ok I will show myself out now 😁

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@iggyfritz7150 before you go, I will let you know, I’m good to go.

[@billkerstein1637]

Tim I bought a used Boss 302 T/A spec engine back in the early 80's from an ex road racer and dirt track guy that had switched to a high port head Cleveland. The spare 14 qt baffled home modified oil pan that he gave me along with it but I never used because it required a specially modified front sway bar had a similar oil pick up tube that had a brazed on brace on it. He said to only braze the pick up tubes when modified because welding could make the tube brittle and crack at bends. He said vibrations and rotating forces raises havoc with oil pumps and should always blueprints when new. Also had custom made reinforced oil pump drive shafts that looked ugly and heavy but never broke. Oil drain back tube with braided line from the rear of Cleveland steel valve cover to the oil pan got the oil back quicker on circle tracks. I don't have that oil pan anymore but I'm sure I have some of the other trick pieces in my old stash of Boss stuff. So sorry this happens to the mighty Cougar and you but it was very strong to not grenade! Good luck with the repair Tim!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Wowser what a story bill. Cool stuff. I notice. What looked like braze on some pick up and pumps. Good to know. I found out any damage can cause stress risers. I guess I never thought there was much stress, only my stress. If you’re interested in getting rid of anything let me know. I may be able to use it. Here is my email [e-mail]. Thanks

[@danonoveh8114]

At least it's not a cracked block thank goodness👍🏻

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@danonoveh8114 highly doubt it but who knows 2 bolt 1970……11 years of abuse.

[@JC-gw3yo]

Love your family Tim

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thank you so much, I sure do too. That is all we got ❤️

[@johnelliott7375]

I feel bad😢 that you only got that one use out of a motor that I thought was going to be the one that was going to lay the smackdown on the competition for a good long time. I think I was hoping you would have a great run with a super solid combination of Cleveland power but I was wrong! Good luck to you and I hope you are able to get it going again and get a solid 800 that will hold together for 2 seasons. Thanks for sharing this with us DBG! 3:34

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

John, I was wrong too. I was hoping for all the same things. But remember things happen for a reason, and now I know the reason. Now I’m giving a second chance so I use the lessons I’ve learned and make things better. I don’t know about 800 hp, as I don’t plan on even using a dominator. I’m happy right where it is, what I can get from freshening up. You will like this. My old engine builder Bob, you’ve seen him in episodes. He is 82 now. He’s coming out of retirement and we’re going to build this together on my channel. You think it was fast, stay tuned, my friend, keep the faith

[@FLfoxlife-zv6fh]

At least your block isn't cracked. If it were me I would go through the whole motor to make sure no other damage was found. The picture you showed of a reinforced pickup looks like a great idea. At least you would have peace of mind. Look forward to seeing more. Good luck.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I don’t think so. That is right. To me minimal damage. Yes and reinforce with strap the pick tube too. More to come. Stay tuned.

[@johnnymossville]

Reminds me of doing brake jobs with my girls when they were younger. Nice having a helper around.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It sure does. Thanks. Here is another quick one. Alaina's Garage: Doing Rear Brakes 2013 Ford F150, Use Your Emergency Brake, So It Does Not Freeze kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXPJpJh6i56oh5I

[@johnnymossville]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland that's great!!! 2015 F150 on this end. :). Looks about the same underneath.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@johnnymossville we teach our kids similarly, good old-fashioned values and hard work. I just had 100,000 miles, oil change every 3000 and I only run premium fuel, otherwise you get carbon buildup on the intake valves from direct injection. Glad to your here Johnny. 🏁

[@patrickrodig5667]

I never had a Ford pickup break like that, but it's common for Chevy engines to fall out if not welded or an aftermarket pickup being used that bolts to the pump. Hopefully there is no crank damage. I'll say there is minimal damage to the crank

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Patrick , I haven’t even gotten a park yet but I know the crank and rods are done. The crank I don’t know if I’ll leave even bother messing with that. Just replace and start over. I never thought it was common either. A lesson for us all to learn. Stay tuned. We going to get this back together at DBG 💯🇺🇸🏁

[@drcolster]

They will always crack at the weld, the weld made steel brittle.. you have a fantastic deep sump, but that means a long unsupported pick up with 7 litres of oil sloshing back and fourth...

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Learning a lot of new stuff about this whole situation. There are so many forces in motion never even thought about it. Any scratch Nick any damage to a pick up cause of the vibration to localize that area and crackola.

[@terrygrover6440]

Hi Tim I'm really sorry to see that happened to you, I told my friend that you have the best sounding engine on KZbin and one of the best running cars out of all the people i watch, good luck going forward this problem is not something you see everyday but i have seen this happen before, thanks for sharing with us it may help someone in the future

[@jmr1970]

Hey Tim, To be honest with you I was trying to send you a subliminal message through the TV. To just pull the pan in the car. That the oil pickup tube broke off. But you found some of the rods were cooked. So you did the right thing getting thr engine out. SORRY, that your having to go through the engine. ❤ you and your family. Getter done MR. FORD KING… lol

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Don’t. Be sorry Terry, it is an expensive lesson for me, but as you said may help others. Bbf have an issue with this. Never seen it in a cleveland. Darin said harmonics. Thanks for the compliment. I also think it sounds like no other engine I have had before. And she holds her own on the track. I will get it taken care of. Appreciate you my friend. Wait until I tell Warren Johnson he will be busting my butt on this one.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@jmr1970 😎Ford King. I like that. I was going to pull pan and laying under car, I was like no op all that time, smell of oil. No way this is good. Yank her out. We will get it tore down and see what other issues there may potentially be. Stay tuned.

[@FabRaceModRepeat]

Sorry Tim, that’s rough. I’ve overhauled a few wet sump roundy round Cleveland’s over the years and some road course boss engines. Most of them had the sump modified similar to that last still shot in the video.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Appreciated. But another lesson learned for me and others. Never happen again. Come back with a plan with Stan form Stefs.

[@gregertman6497]

This is the reason why I like to run a single stage external oil pump with the oil pick up built into the oil pan

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Have been debating that, external wet sump, but that is a 2k cost right there. Pump is a grand. I have learned what I do for oil mods is working well. I have a new pick up. So it will be fixed with supports. New crank and rods and lifters. Those lifters are 11 years old. Thanks Greg

[@michaelclanton1152]

Are you talking about a belt driven pump?

[@bryanmaloney6651]

Pros: External oil pressure adjustment, almost eliminates distributor gear wear, a little more power from less windage, and ability to easily prime engine before startup. Cons: cost and small worry about belt getting knocked off by debris

[@JohnH.-qp6fb]

I think truck/tractor/ heavy equipment supply shops have an oil pressure safety switch. I bought one in the 60's and it saved me once when I made the 4th gear change. The oil filter blew and oil covered everything immediately, and the engine shut down. It happens so fast that you aren't aware anything went wrong. But we learn. Saved an engine, me and the car. I seem to recall it was made by Bendix then. Still have it.

[@michaelclanton1152]

All of tha to overcome poor quality materials.I understand an upgrade idea though. ​@bryanmaloney6651

[@drcolster]

I reckon you used coated bearings, that saved chucking rods.... Maybe cranks grind, yes new rods, roller lifters ???....hone,rings etc... new pick up with a brace... You will fix it Tim... i think it could of been a lot worse...

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You are so right this is something that you can die from a simple mistake like this. I am very fortunate that this is all that happened. And that’s how I’ve been looking at it. Lesson learned for all and especially myself. Some new changes coming forward.I talked to my old builder the other day, he said stop monkey around, get the thing apart let’s get it going and get it done. It needs a rebuild. Don’t try to cut corners. I’m in good hands now he’s coming out of retirement at age 82 to put DragBoss in the 9.20d. Stay tuned.

[@abcullens2328]

"There's our problem" No kidding, wow! Sorry that happened to her Tim. But she didn't come apart! I'd call that "Bad news - Good news" Bad news is the oil pump pickup broke....... Good news is the engine didn't blow up! I still think you got incredibly fortunate, good for you. In my 11 years of racing the Ford 351Cleveland engine I experienced the same problem, bracing the oil pickup became mandatory for me. Best of luck on the rest of the teardown. By the way people call me ABC or AC, my initials. Thanks

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yeah, that makes me laugh now, but it made me sick when I saw it, I think you can see the emotion. But you are so right it is good news, nothing exploded, I didn’t crash, no one got hurt. It’s just parts. I will make it much better. But it tells me ABC, my oil mods work, and I don’t think I’m changing nothing. Definitely have the pick up brace, maybe even a custom built pick up with no welds, I’m going to talk to oil pans they may want to help me they may have better idea. But I’ll tell you one thing,with all you guys there to support me and help me get through this, DBG has this covered baby. I think you’re gonna enjoy this next chapter.

[@abcullens2328]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland Yeah, the look on your face was priceless, (sorry) You could see the genuine emotion in that moment. (heartbreak & disappointment) I watched your in car video several times, I even slowed down the play back speed so I could calculate the time without O/P. It was without O/P for approximately One (1) second under load, not counting the Idling time afterward. Also your O/P was fluctuating before it dropped to zero (when engine was at steady RPM). Tim, you did nothing wrong!! Please don't beat yourself up, Remember - "Sh*t Happens" as hard as this is , It is part of racing. My recommendation is a red O/P warning light. (I always had one in my stock cars, no time to look at gauges) And one other thing regarding personal safety, Please always have your daughters tie their hair back when working around the car or engine. Others have mentioned this as well, very dangerous. Thanks for the reply, AC

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@abcullens2328 yea sir it does happen. And I did not get any on me. All great recommendations. I mentioned to her about hair, did you hear what she said? With this combo, start fresh. Glad your here

[@billfioretti3013]

Heartbreaking 💔 discovery for sure. Team Family DragBoss has what it takes to overcome it. How do you mend a broken heart? Teamwork. Keep watching DragBoss Garage. Learn and be inspired even through adversity. B.T.W. Excessive harmonics in Layman's terms=Bad vibrations. Not unusual to have pickup failures. Even oil pumps have been known to crack. The expensive reciprocating assy. is likely trashed due to the failure of a comparatively low cost component. DragBoss will see to it that weak links will be addressed. Stay Tuned.❤

[@michaelclanton1152]

I would think the crank can go .010"under depending on the heat penetration idk if there is a Rockwell test for this. It would be interesting if the rods can be blasted and used in a stock application as an upgrade.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

The crank may be good. I may have that cleaned up used for a mild build or sell. 4 rods are not even worth looking at from my point of view. Just replace and start fresh.

[@michaelclanton1152]

@DragBoss351Cleveland I had some transmission parts get that black with the 727 now I have a th400.

[@michaelclanton1152]

Who can do crank grinding around here? I went to moldex years ago for .010 on rod journal. You may go to Molnar now that I think of it.​@DragBoss351Cleveland

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@michaelclanton1152 hope all is well. I have never seen that in a transmission, the bluing. The debris, many times.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@michaelclanton1152 I think shaftech, who finished the crank can. I am going to buy a new crank from Molnar. Maybe have that old crank cleaned up and evaluate it. Maybe for a street build.

[@adambergendorff2702]

When I worked at a shop back in the 80's on circle track motors we always braced the pump and the pick up because we saw them brake with out them.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Wished I would knew this from the 80s, lot I don’t remember. Thanks Adam

[@chadcarpenter4078]

Im glad to see you didn't have worse damage your windage trey saved you from the pickup getting wedged between rods and causing damage to the block possibly or throwing a rod,, that can definitely be fixed,,im a welder/fabricator and have welded many different things and from picture it looks like the tubing wasn't beveled to get full penetration they just butted the tubes and welded or brazed around the outside,, and the engine harmonics and vibrations cracked weld,, im running a miloden rear sump 9quart pan the pickup screws in and is alot longer, but it has a bracket weled towards the end and bolts to main girdle,, good luck with getting it back together and I would definitely weld gussets to pickup tube like that one you showed ,plus weld a short strap off tube an drill an tap your main girdle to bolt strap down,,

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You got this already Chad, so you see what I was thinking. May not have been the best and turn up the wick and new frequencies abound. Talked with Stefs and Sending in my pan and new pump. They will take care of the rest.

[@svenomick5857]

What a pity Tim and Family, can’t wait to see the Mighty Clevo going again You have great help there I can see with great little Questions love Your work Cheers Mick Australia. Love the Site Winter here cold an d Beautiful

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No worries mate. We will get her back in the game. It’s great to have the Bossettes help and learn. Hot and humid here

[@rodneybyrd9516]

Bummer!! You'll repair it and be back good as new!!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Sure will. Better than new.

[@427_FE]

Well, at least the block survived so far, hope the crank does too!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I think the block is good, crank not taking a chance, really need to get it apart

[@clarkmcmahan1595]

See if melling or Moroso makes a racing version oil pump the pickup is built in .that eliminates the offset screen and eliminates a failure point

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Clark, the bearings are wiped, so is the cranking rods. Rosa makes nothing for this other than standard or high volume. This pump is a blue printed version, from precision oil pumps.

[@clarkmcmahan1595]

They offer a single stage dry sump oil pump that's not hard to make minor modifications for.would that be a potential canadidate to your situatiin?

[@clarkmcmahan1595]

Either way its disheartening to see this .and its not even my rig .I'm sorry buddy just trying to help offer solutions to remove the problems ..

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@clarkmcmahan1595 I have been thinking about that. But nothing wrong with my oiling system. So would rather not get involved right now. Getting a new pan and pick up from Stefs.

[@marcbelson7918]

Sorry to see the damage Tim. Hopefully the crank can be saved.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No worries Marc. I think crank it bad. No worries, I can get a new one from Molnar. We got this my friend.

[@danielwilson6665]

According to the research I did, a new Molnar would be a good choice. Callies has an impressive operation and works with a local foundry to control details like the metallurgical properties of their cranks as needed based on the intended usage. Sounds expensive but it might actually be one of those get what you pay for deals 🤷‍♂️🇺🇸

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@danielwilson6665 yes Callies, has a great company, in this case, I might be able to get the crank taken care of at shaft tech, a guy that used to work for Callies, who started his own company. We had the crank finished. However, I’m here of using used parts like this when Tom Molnar will help me out with a crank and rods, it only makes sense to replace. I will build another 408 down the road.

[@danielwilson6665]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland The existing crank was finished to perfection but the extreme heat treating it received without oil pressure probably rendered it useless. The new Molnar assembly definitely makes sense 🏁

[@kennybiggs3944]

Do the right thing fix it right patch never fixes anything good luck 😊looking for the next update keep up the good work

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I agree Kenny. I will keep you posted, stay tuned. 👍

[@largeeng]

Tim, that pickup being so long needs support to minimise vibration and failure. I ran a rear sump on mine and the pickup was supported with a bracket onto a main cap stud. Hopefully you haven't done too much damage but regardless of the oil results I would be tearing that down to see for myself.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Agreed. No not asking for analysis, just want to see if it correlates with damage. Needs new bottom end.

[@johnguilbert1349]

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better, stronger, faster.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Then that crazy sound that they always had, his heart rates beating faster. He’s the $6 million man baby man what a show that was when we were kids I remember pretending to be him back in the day, and running like a bastard. But you’re right stronger and faster that’s my goal.

[@theshed8802]

Damn. That welded pickup is problematic by design. It should really have a tube section over it, and some rosette welds for extra security. That or it needs a support leg going back to the main support girdle. Will be interesting to see how the bearings look. Not that it would have made any difference, but in your previous video where you were doing a compression test with no oil pressure, it's something that I personally wouldn't have even considered. No oil pressure means no lubrication, an no protection. If you wanted to test cylinder integrity, you could have pulled the rockers, and done a cylinder leak down. It wouldn't matter if the pistons were at BDC, it would still give you enough information. The oil analysis will be interesting, as it was probably sucking air for some time before the failure. I suspect that the black is possibly bearing coating, but we will see. Hope the crankshaft is salvageable mate. Regards Greg

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I thought about it Greg, but already had my mind made up to pull the engine. With what happened I had a feeling it would never be anything salvageable so to speak. Leak down tester got dropped by accident so need another one. Tom Molnar will help me with crank and rods so good with that. I also know that what I do for oil mods is sufficient and works well. No change there. Upon researching found that this is a common problem, especially bbf. Someone had mentioned the black bearing coating from bearings. All good

[@dadmobile960]

My favorite build on YT.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Well then. Thanks. Now we will make it even better. With my 82 year old engine builder entering the scene. 🇺🇸💯🏁

[@peskypeet]

Well that sucks, hopefully you can save the crank. Glad you're ok. It could have been so much worse though, wecked car & such. Stuff happen fast when you're going fast. Needless to say if you don't already have one it would be a great idea to get a low pressure warning light.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It does. But I learned a lot. I think crank it junk. I can get the rods and crank from Molnar. I am getting a low pressure light. Yes so lucky. 🙏

[@mariodouehi1284]

WOW i had a funny feeling it was gunna be the pick up id be making a support bracket from the filter screen to the windage tray plate but in a pitch structure to stop it from vibration id still plastigauge the bearings just for back up i know we hate touching the rear main part cause of the seal and what ive done in the past before i put the sump back on fill up a big icecream container yeah with engine oil hook up ur master gauge spin it with ur drill see what oil pressure says i think its gunna be safe so happy for you man examine the oil pump as well hope its really good

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Mario, not a good situation, needs bottom end. Taken care of. Get a custom pan and pick up. Want a pro job.

[@andrewgestautas4655]

Fab a strap to a main stud. I bet the bearings are fine.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No bottom end fried. Time for critical update, hang on and full steam ahead.

[@danielwilson6665]

Thanks!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Dam it man, thank you my friend. I will use that for my oil pump, pick up. 💯🏁👍👍❤️

[@danielwilson6665]

@@DragBoss351ClevelandI said WHAT THE HELL about the same time you did. The band aid approach isn’t your way of doing things and after seeing the bottom end close up, the Red Cross wouldn’t help. I’m glad to donate to a worthy cause and someone I truly believe in.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@danielwilson6665 I have since gone in DBG and just looked at that pick up and carnage in disbelief. I will take care of it He’ll Yeah, come in 9.20.

[@danielwilson6665]

@@DragBoss351ClevelandYour positive attitude and energy creates the motivation to turn that moment of disbelief into a sweet 9.20 !

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@danielwilson6665 I will do my best. 💯

[@mavman351]

Damn, why would that happen Tim? Never seen that before! Well, now you know buddy. You will get er screaming again. DBG for the win!!!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Common I goes from research. I have never seen it. I will get her fixed up. Hell yeah!

[@22vampyre]

That SUUUUUUCKS! But now we know. Blue rods are not good! Sorry Tim.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Vamp, there are no words to describe, from my standpoint. But this is a learning experience for me and you. Now I can make things better than they were and will be fresh. This 409 sat for close to five years before I made a pass. Now let’s see what a fresh engine will do.😉💯🏁

[@johnsalvaterra3116]

Well Tim, I would call that pickup failure "weird"! I never had one fail like that, though I do remember a fella who said he had one fail at the threaded section. Damn shame,

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Made me sick John. All these years of hard work. Over in 9.37 seconds. But I have learned that what I do for oil mods works and can survive. Will have a new pick up made or reinforce a new one. Just happen to have a new. Pan and pickup. They stopped making this pan, years ago.

[@johnsalvaterra3116]

I definitely would be "down" after a crazy failure like the pickup breaking off. That engine runs SO good. I have always wondered how much the pickup "moves around" vibrating with the engine. That pickup failed in a damn short time, IMO. There may well have been a small Crack right from the start.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@johnsalvaterra3116 I know John. Unbelievable. My buddy said it was a poor weld, some edge looked irregular but don’t know. Learned alot with this controlled lesson. I know my oil mods work.

[@edsmachine93]

That's a tough break Tim. You will have to reinforce the pickup tube somehow. The GForces of the launches snapped it off. What did the welds look like? Was there any obvious defects? Take care, Ed.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Ed, Darin said it was harmonics common problem. But all things contribute, stress, heat, and g force with weight of oil. He braces all pick ups and braze them In. The welds as per buddy, are not penetrated well. You take care and stay tuned.

[@garycarpenter3685]

Hey Tim, sorry about that. I have issues right now also. #3 spark plug stripped out. Hope you get it going soon

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It’s ok. Learning a lot…. More. Not good, maybe you can heli cool it.

[@garycarpenter3685]

Pulling the head and taking to my engine builder. Putting in heli coils. On all 4holes. Heads are old and have had a lot of abuse.. should be good. I hope yours doesn't cost a lot. I love the segment you did on Bob Glidden. Out standing. He is why I chose ford's.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@garycarpenter3685 good luck Gary. Right move. Yes Gidden is the man. We got this. Stay tuned.

[@90762709]

Tim, You’ve got a great family!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I am very blessed. I appreciate you and noticing that. 🙏👍

[@marvinnelson9414]

Hey Tim, was that pickup tube new to the build? What brand? My Milidon 8 qt. pickup tube and pan are nearly 30 years old, and I reused them on my current engine, which is a very similar build and power level to yours (although, I keep mine under 7800 rpm's). My new engine has 100 runs on it, my last engine had about 750 with the same pickup tube on a m84 pump. That quick of a failure just doesn't seem possible. Harmonics? Flaws? I may brace mine the next time it's out.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Listen Marvin, this is new to me. I’ve heard about it on big Blackford, but after talking to professionals, I know a couple. This is a common problem. Once you get to a certain horsepower level. It’s definitely due to harmonics, RPM, heat, and stress. Many people have said they change the pick up with every rebuild. This pick up is a factory Moroso, but it’s old. You are so right about thinking about your pick up. I will tell you this I’ve learned a lot of lessons on this and hopefully others havetoo. Do you think she’s cooking now? Stay tuned.

[@brianguggenmos7289]

Bummer Tim. That really bites!!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Dam straight Brian. But taught me some lessons. Now I know what I do for oil mods works well. So tear down and see what I need. Thanks

[@bobbyoshomebuilt2544]

Oh that sucks! I had the same happen 20 years ago in my BB Chevy bracket car. Yes vibration caused it. I was actually just talking to Mike Z from Canton about this exact thing. He said vibration. He also mentioned adding a support to prevent it. I think that's what I did back then, long ogo, not sure. I have another setup now, SB Mopar in a 61 Galaxie, had to build my own front sump pan and run a long pickup from rear mounted pump. I used thicker wall tubing but your problem has me a bit nervous! The next time it's out I'll see if I can find a place to attach a support. Love your car and your channel. I'll be watching, thanks.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Bobby. Very unique combo you have. Yes very common to most, but I have never seen it. Harmonics, heat, stress all contributing factors. I will come up with a solution for this. Stay tuned. Glad you enjoy the channel. Yes check yours.

[@bobbyoshomebuilt2544]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland Absolutely!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Don’t be me.

[@brracing7861]

You make any progress Tim ? The shortblock salvageable? Need to start over minus Top End ? I am about ready to head to the machine shop with my 1970 Trans Am RAIV shortblock many 1 off parts. BES Racing my top pick along with Steve Morris.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Have not done much, let it sit and spent time with family, past few weeks. Need to get back on it. Talked to molnar and he will help me with crank and rods. Will need lifters. Getting new pan and pick up from stefs. Try and make a video this weekend. Frank Iaconio invited us to the races, so will be there Sunday. I had Steve Morris on for a live chat. Great guy. You know my association with BES. Stay tuned

[@brracing7861]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland Try and line up the parts needed Tim. Deposit or bought in hand. Things are going to get crazy in the USA next few months. Likely no parts available maybe even for daily drivers. I spent a small fortune $$$$ last 4 months buying all to get my 1970 Pontiac T/A back on the Road. Also parts for the daily drivers. Also get it now before more Super Inflation kicks in.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@brracing7861 I have doing it slowly and bought parts previously. Including gasket set, head gaskets, and roller lifters. Our country need help and hope it is on the way.

[@stacetriebwasser6425]

I would wait for the analysis to come back and go from there!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No way brother she’s cooked to the gills. I did the analysis, just to see the difference between the two. Lake Speed Jr. will come on and do a live chat, discuss the results, we can discuss oils or rings people love to talk about this stuff he’s the man to talk to. I hope you’re there. Just sit back and see what happens next. I’ve got a plan in mind.

[@stacetriebwasser6425]

@DragBoss351Cleveland I commented that before the last 10 seconds of the video, after watching the last 10-15 seconds I completely agree, if she's cooked there's no need to wait for the analysis to tell you what you already know.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@stacetriebwasser6425 right. I think I answered you. Just want to compare to post dyno. New bottom end is a given.

[@123nova87]

What’s the compression on the engine ??

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

13.3

[@jesse75]

I usually drop the pan from underneath. Not topside. Less mess.

[@JeremyFrazelle-or1mt]

It doesn’t help the pick up tube on a Ford has to run from the front of the engine to the back. Alameda really opened my eyes on oiling .

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

On the cleveland runs from front to front. I thing your talking about fox style oil pan with pick up going all the back. I know Ben well. I will text him and ask him. Thanks Jeremy

[@JeremyFrazelle-or1mt]

Right on Sir.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@JeremyFrazelle-or1mt keep strong my friend

[@oscaracme]

So i guess you didn't "split the block"?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Don’t think so, get her tore down this weekend.

[@rogerstill719]

Why did the pickup break?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Harmonics, heat, stress, G forces

[@mistersniffer6838]

Man, thats straight up bull s***t. i would make that pickup company pay for that engine. A pickup is absolutely not a high wear item. If anything, its inert for the most part. Shouldn't be doing that!!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I’ve never seen anything like it. I’ve heard about it with different engines. No company whatever pay for anything like this. It’s a racing engine. The bottom line is it is aware item, this should be changed every time you rebuilt the engine. These all should be braced, which I did not know. Live and learn stay tuned sniffer👍

[@mistersniffer6838]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland - Well, if it happened to me, it would be the first lawsuit they ever saw over it!! Good luck, awaiting the next steps in my armchair with my warrior sword at my side!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@mistersniffer6838 thanks sniffer, have not gotten it apart. Family and work first. Definitely a learning process. Hope the Bossettes will help me tear down.

[@mistersniffer6838]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland - Thats a big job. Figured you would have to take a little down time to fall back and regroup, to see what direction your gonna go, order parts, etc..... Wish it woulda happened closer to the end of the season, but, then again, its starting to get a little too hot to run, so, maybe perfect timing???

[@racer6583]

I thought that's what happened, my cleve, did the same thing modified stock pan to hold 8 quarts and mod the pick up tube. Four runs in the low tens not bad for a 73 stang lightly built 351 with a 400 crank, 10.5 to1, 1971 351 boss cam forgot the specs, home ported heads, .035 head gaskets, home modified C6 with trans shift kit, and a 9 inch 4.30 traction lock. Running on pizza cutter 4.5 M & H front and 10 wide 29 tall 15 inch rear. Did great until my start of the fifth run left the line my pap wired in a idiot light along with the oil gage.if that light didn't come on I would have ruined my engine. I got away with replacing two con rods and all rods and Mains and listening to my pap yelling how stupid I was for welding the pick up tube instead of brazing it for about three weeks. Hope everything goes smoothly for you.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Racer, tough combo. Impressive, great work. Yes I never knew any of the issues with pickups. It just blows my mind. Also just learned about brazing and not welding. I will get one of the lights too. We will be ok. Thanks much. 🙏🏁

[@jimm8264]

Sorry Tim. But look at the bright side, It could be worse I guess like a rod thru the block. Keep the faith.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Way worse without a doubt. Always KTF. 🙏

[@n2omike]

That's a HUGE rear baffle on the oil pan! Thought about making something similar for my 8.2 engine, but didn't go that far. Was worried about oil being able to drain back into the sump. How many quarts do you run in it? In the process of installing an Accusump as we speak. Hate that for you! Freak breakages...

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Been running these pans for 40 years. Never an issue. The pan is a 9 qt pan. Brace your pickup. Common breakage issue, I have never seen it. I thought about accusump, not sure if I need or want it. What your thoughts Mike?

[@n2omike]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I use a Canton 'road race' 1563 pan that boxes the pickup in an area with trap door baffles. Worked great for decades on my 306 engines turning 6800 rpm. Pan is advertised as 8 qt, but I only run 7 in the the engine. Shows 1 qt low on the dipstick. New 363 turns 8k rpm. Oil pressure would tank from 70 to 40 from 7500 up on the dyno. Made some changes (SV blueprinted, ported pump, bigger custom made pickup and some drainback mods and it did fine on the dyno. I've TRIED to watch the oil pressure at the track, but it's a stick car with two stages of nitrous... and the gauge isn't in the line of sight, so I can't see it. lol I do think it's dropping, though. Accusump has an electric valve. Valve has an internal check valve that allows it to fill to max pressure. Has an electric pressure switch that only allows it to dump at the switch pressure. Mine is marked at 57 psi. Cold oil pressure is 80+. Now, if the pressure drops below 57, the Accusump should open up and provide a few seconds of lubrication. Thinking about making a bigger baffle. The one I made/added is not nearly as large as what's on your pan! lol Can't afford to replace the engine in any kind of reasonable timeframe, so trying to not kill it. lol Been playing with no-prep. Wired up a nitrous progresser. Last weekend, it was coming out on 150 with a 0.1 second delay and 0.25 second ramp with a 100 hp second stage to use in 3rd gear. Still a street car that gets driven on the road, but was surprising some of the purpose built race cars... even on a 28x9. lol Engine made 655 n/a and 908 with an 82 jet (225hp) on the dyno. 11.5 to 1 and pump gas n/a.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@n2omike Mike we have known each other for a long time at least on the forms back in the day. Always impressed by your Mustang, I’ve never really been a nitrous fan only used it once. Yes this oil pump pick up blows my mind. Who is SV? This pump was blueprinted by precision oil pumps. At this point, I think what I’m doing for my combination. Regards to oil mods works. The Dyno runs, and at the track, proof that. I had these ideas of external wet sump, lifter bore bushings, accusump. But now thinking I will replace what I need. You’re killing it with your car. Accusump still not off the drawing board. Never steal my knew much about them. Thanks for the info. Glad you enjoy the channel. Appreciate you 💯🏁

[@n2omike]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland SV just stands for Standard Volume. lol I had a HV pump and decided to change it out in case it was pumping the pan dry. I've ALWAYS used Precision Oil Pumps. Both the HV and SV came from them. I took the SV pump apart and smoothed the transitions and ported it a bit. Also installed the HV spring, and cranked it down a bit. Builds a little over 80psi cold. They are the 'race' pumps with the gerotor support on the bottom. Still needed squared at the interface between the housing and the heads of the mounting bolts. Will still idle down to around 45psi or so when fully warmed up. Thinking about putting the HV pump back in now that it's doing double duty filling the engine AND Accusump. Will only use the Accusump at the track. Can leave it turned off, although the internal check valve will still allow it to fill. Enjoy watching your content!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@n2omike thank Mike. Glad you’re here. Yes SV, duh. Talked with stefs yesterday. They want me to send in my pan, and a new oil pump, they will make a new custom pan and pick up. Doug is a great guy and great to use his products. Not changing any other oiling mods. They work.

[@jeffnewman2864]

Good luck

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I will take it Jeff. Thanks

[@williemoon7522]

it broke after the weld .. seems they did not anneal it after welding .. and dont most ford oil pickups have a support tab on them .

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yep, Should have had a support strut. All should for any racing.

[@laurafreeze2861]

Well not as good news but I knew that pickup was off, you didn't get as lucky as I did when mine fell off. Look at bracing the pump that will stop a lot of the vibration. Look closely at the pickup where it broke off. The pump was shaking around that's why it broke right at the weld. Stop the pump from moving no more broken pickups. Or brace the pickup to a main cap.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yep that is the plan. No doubt bad news. But I consider myself lucky 🍀 in the fact that it did not blow or crash the car. Thanks Laura

[@n2omike]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland Many of the Melling small block pumps aren't square where the main mounting bolts tighten against the housing. Often have to take a grinder or mill and square them up. Puts uneven load on the bolt heads and can break them off. Could that be the case here? Allowing the pump to vibrate? May look into other, heavier duty aftermarket pumps. Good Luck

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@n2omike no Mike I don’t think that is the issues. This pump was sponsored to me by precision oil pumps. They blue print these pumps. I will see what he says. Aftermarket billet stuff will not fit with girdle.

[@65merc390]

good to see the little wrench in pink helping you out in the garage..maybe she will be a future Shirley Muldowney some day .....my thoughts are vibration too ..thats just my 2 cents ...it didnt seem to run to long when it lost oil pressure ...so hopefully very little damage ...didnt you say this was the best run ever??..if so i'm guessing on the top end it lost oil pressure and gained a few H.P's towards the end

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No not the best run. Best was 9.32. Top end is probably without issues. I asked the Little wrench, is pink flamingo outfit ok to work in DBG with, and she said sure is dad. 😊

[@65merc390]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland ts good to have the little wrench around

[@danielwilson6665]

The moment of truth !

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It’s right there my man.

[@michaelclanton1152]

Wow those rods got some heat.the stub in the pump is not Loose is it? I hate to see this happening to you! I will donate some how.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Michael, they cooked like a summer sausage on the grill. No not loose. Thanks Michael, I may need it somehow. Need tear done and evaluate. Thanks so much for your caring and friendship.

[@michaelclanton1152]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I know you have a lot on your mind at this point.try not to stress out it will get done.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@michaelclanton1152 yes I sure do, with work and family, tough to get time. At basketball now with IZzy so maybe after we can tear down a bit.

[@michaelclanton1152]

@DragBoss351Cleveland I know your distracted with the car but enjoy every minute of the family.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@michaelclanton1152 I am a little. But she can sit in DBG until her time. She is patient. Family first ❤️

[@TheJackmac55]

yeah..the chain..went with a forged full swivel

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I was like why is it hard to keep on line. 😳