“Dead" Mothers and Their Offspring: Narcissistic, Borderline, Psychotic

"Dead" mothers are emotionally unavailable, self-absorbed, withholding, frustrating, neglectful, and hurtful. I examine three types: the mother with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), and the psychotic mother. The last 20 minutes are dedicated to a deeper analysis of Andre Green's work.
WATCH How to Be Good Enough Mother • How to Be Good Enough ...
WATCH 13 Signs of Mentally Ill Family (5th World Mental Health Congress) • 13 Signs of Mentally I...
WATCH Are Fathers Needed? Mothers Are, For Sure! (Literature Review) • Are Fathers Needed? Mo...
LITERATURE
Green, André. (2001). The dead mother. In his Life narcissism/death narcissism (Andrew Weller, Trans.). London, New York: Free Associations Books.
The Dead Mother: The Work of Andre Green (New Library of Psychoanalysis), Gregorio Kohon, 1999
Find and Buy MOST of my BOOKS and eBOOKS in my Amazon Store: www.amazon.com...

[@samvaknin]

Fellow Germans: Yes, I meant to say "Guten Tag, alles" - not "Guten Tag, alle". Alles means every THING (in German). The narcissist regards people as OBJECTS, as THINGS. Got it? Grow a sense of humor and a basic acquaintance with narcissism! LOL

[@011silbermond]

Thanks for clearing this up, Professor! I nearly fall from the chair in surprise every time you speak to us in German. LOL 🤣🤣I really like your whole attitude, you´re so so helpful around all these difficult topics, bringing light into these swamp!! 💝💝

[@olhachytaylo4022]

Yep, we got it :)

[@Adlerjunges83]

:-) The beginning was cool - your openings in general are hilarious, always great fun. Very interesting video. Btw, I got it and I still think it's funny.

[@nulu4048]

Guten Tag Herr Vaknin!

[@slendersprig6811]

Guten Morgen liebe Sorgen!

[@megmayhem84]

Having been diagnosed with BPD after the trauma from being raised by a narcissist mother I decided to break the cycle and end generational trauma by not having kids. Something I will never regret. It ends with me.

[@elizaz3627]

Same here. It ends with me. It is freeing to know that. So simple but powerful

[@kimmiranda5678]

Same here. I decided it when I was 6 years old

[@a.garcia7127]

Me too. I decided not to have children. My mother is a monster.

[@AnimosityIncarnate]

Based and wholesome pilled

[@sunshine-db2zm]

I actully did the opposite, I decided to break the generational curse and decided to be the best mother ever.I gave birth to 2 wonderful girls and been the healthy parent that i did not get when i was young...

[@terrijones1167]

I was terrified of my mother and was right to be. When I was in my forties she told me that she had 'thrown me against a wall when I was a baby.....and laughing said You bounced.' Between her and a child abusing sociapath father I am amazed I escaped and have managed to live my own life. Emphasis OWN life. Been tough tho....thank you for what you do Dr Sam❤

[@Sadbuttrue-ThatSwedishGirl]

❤❤❤

[@mariatiraski2]

💔

[@Hadarah-jt7lc]

Ohmy you are resilient. G-d Bless you. I'm so very sorry you were treated like that.

[@ClaireGraceMarshall-jr5mm]

That's awful, I'm so sorry what a horrible mother or excuse for one. Mine threw things at me as a baby and tried to let me suffocate as far as I'm aware. She still terrifies me and she should never have been allowed to have me or be a parent. The things we deal with from these monsters, they aren't even people in my opinion and it's small at that. Just my two cents if that, wishing you all the very best x

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

My mother isn't dead inside but her narrative is reality. *The End* If I challenge her narrative I'm detached from reality, insane, entitled, angry, sensitive 😢😢😢😢 the list of insults is ongoing but yet, she is the victim of me. I have given up. I dont need her support, I'm 53, but I cannot collapse in to her narrative any more. When you're done, you're done. She has my father to back her up no matter what so they are ok. I need to put my sanity first.

[@inspectorforyou7624]

Your mother and father are the same as mine....you are not alone, there are millions of us out there with moms that are just controlling.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

I am with you.

[@georgiakombakis1356]

At 51 last year I finally found the courage to cut her out of my life and it has been the most freeing thing I’ve ever done ( even though I feel guilty sometimes I know in my heart it was the only way I could find peace).

[@bionicwoman3166]

sorry... im going through the exact same thing right now. i just miss my dad but she has always been jealous of our relationship

[@rubberbiscuit99]

@@bionicwoman3166 That envy is real and eventually they need to destroy the connections that cause their envy. They cannot tolerate others' happiness.

[@ionabarker]

This describes perfectly my mother whom, when i was 6 weeks old, lost her own mother. Her interest in me completely withered away and died too, and I grew up wondering what I ever did wrong. I’m about to turn 38 and I have just began my journey in understanding the complexity of my wounds and developmental issues. I was diagnosed as ADHD at 36, and last year I decided to cut ties with her completely due to the narcissism, abuse, coldness and lack of any compassion or warmth in that relationship. I had spent my life so far waiting for it to appear and trying to make it appear with no success.

[@DelSunflower33]

This also is very similar to my story I’m 38, something about people who have walked this similar journey however gives me this joy in a way tho bcuz I know it’s a life that was in a cocoon and the rebirth of these people starts with curiosity and ends up painting a beautiful unique painting, one that was not predictable… after that it feels sort of like a exhalation.. yes it takes time surround yourself around unconditional love. 💕

[@DrJessie210]

@ionabarker Our stories are so similar! I am a clinical psychologist who deals with victims of abuse and cluster B disorders. My Mom is an Undiagnosed Untreated BPD. Her Mom, (my grandmother) passed two months before I was born, so I received trauma in utero. She had no interest in me either. I was conditioned to be a people pleaser even at the negation of my own feelings. Psychologically speaking, one of the only reasons why I didn’t develop full on BPD is because U had my Father who was calm, loving, caring and compassionate. A man of Faith in God, a man that was always affirming and soothing. He passed last year and as a therapist I knew Mom was going to “blow”. Luckily I moved away prior. Our relationship now is over the phone. I “love” her from a distance. ❤

[@specterowl1440]

It explains why the children are often disregulated or shutdown. Truly Tragic. What a horror for the babe

[@Hadarah-jt7lc]

Amen

[@AnimosityIncarnate]

Appreciate this. Crazy how ones always BPD, dysregulated, and the other more schizoid.. Works across cultures and genders. Scary :( Bpd males become coverts or psycopaths imo. :(

[@livelystones7773]

My mother was very clever. She figured out that she could use the trauma of my dad dying in front of us when we were children as a tool in her arsenal. So every day she would feign feeling unwell and tell us how she ‘almost died last night’ in her sleep. What kind of person would constantly repeat that to a child who had just lost their father?? She did this for years and you would get an extra helping of her ‘imminent death’ if you every had a disagreement with her. Of course It was absolutely terrifying and would keep me bound to her despite her parentification of me alongside her neglectful behaviour and personal attacks against me and her emotionally dysregulated behaviour. She clearly didn’t like me but bound me to her and I was so terrified she was going to die suddenly at any point that became trapped in this support cycle. A strangely abnormal upbringing. She was unfit to be a mother but somehow always wanting recognition on Mother’s Day💀 Now I know decades later about narcissism, I really think these people are possessed by demonic entities because how can their behaviours be so universal if they are from different countries, different cultures etc

[@zatoichiMiyamoto]

Same animal species maybe?

[@Padraigp]

Because we are all humans. People from different countries are humans.

[@michelemurphy3541]

They all have same brain development/neurology issues from lack or incorrect structures in their brains;often genetic, which is why it runs in families. Couple the neuro deficits with behavioral and you have a perfect storm for what could for sure degenerate into pure evil.

[@user-ek6jn6tg6h]

My mom used all of us to extract money from our dads

[@petroonajourney3503]

I am with you, I believe in the existence of the spiritual world and that spiritual entities can possess people. I also believe that people deliberately make bad choices and that their children not only suffers for it but sometimes carry it into their own lives as parents, thus carrying on a bad legacy and leaving an inheritance of hurt, confusion, bad examples and bad impressions.

[@missgreeneyesx3512]

My mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia and stopped taking her meds when I was 4. She was a nightmare. I developed bpd as a result. I'm so greatful to Professor Sam Vaknin. His helped me understand my bpd diagnosis more than my own doctors and therapists.

[@mojoarmstretch7261]

Im sorry for your trauma. Out of curiosity, could share how was it to have a schizophrenic parent ?

[@missgreeneyesx3512]

@@mojoarmstretch7261 she was confusing. I was always on edge and scared of her. She was violent and abusive. She would hit me and she still brags about how she threw bowls of breakfast ceral over my head when I was a small kid. I would do anything I could to please her but i was constantly rejected. She cares more about alcohol then me and my brother. I had no idea she wasn't normal until I left home at 16 and went into the real world. Thats when I learned how crazy she actually was. I feel like I had to adjust to the real world and learn what was normal. I have to now deal with her suicidal behaviour. Her last attempt was August 2022 when she took a load of pills. Luckily she was OK and is out of hospital. I love her and just accept her for the crazy mess she is. I deal with her by keeping strong boundaries.

[@irielion3748]

​@@missgreeneyesx3512And you, how are you? How are you functioning in the world?

[@Hadarah-jt7lc]

Sam is my fav

[@amandaa2119]

Sounds like my childhood with my misdiagnosed BPD mother. 🥺 I'm trying to not do this to my kids. Thank you Sam! You're teaching me a lot. I don't want this for my kids. I want them to thrive, be happy, not feel like an empty shell. 🥺🥺🥺

[@kaylaschroeder1]

The fact that you're learning about this, have the capacity to say to yourself that this is not how you want to be for your children, indicates you're already better than a mother on the cluster b spectrum. Loving your children and allowing them to express themselves, happy/angry/sad, etc. without emotionally exploiting them, you're probably doin' alright. 😊

[@mariaelenarodriguez6188]

Awareness and education. Happy Father’s Day! :)

[@TaylorAmelia]

Literally same. My biggest fear ❤

[@amandaa2119]

@@kaylaschroeder1 thank you so much. ❤️

[@amandaa2119]

@@TaylorAmelia I'm sure we won't be like them. We are trying to learn and not repeat toxic cycles.

[@1rauno]

"In some instances it would appear as if their mother was unable to recognise that her child had an inner life that was separate and distinct from her own. The mother was experienced as if she lacked the capacity to recognise other minds. The consequences of experiencing this failure of the mother to acknowledge the child’s inner life can be devastating. For recognising the uniqueness of children’s inner life is equivalent to recognising that they are psychically alive. It is as if their mothers failed to acknowledge their humanity. It is a short step to think that if their mother does not recognise their psychic aliveness, then their mother wishes that they did not exist, that they in fact should be dead. If a child is not entitled to have an inner life that is unique and separate from that of the mother, it is as if the child has not been granted the permission to be a person. The failure to recognise the child’s psychic aliveness may be felt by the child as the mother’s withholding permission to exist. Believing that the mother withholds permission to exist may result in the conviction that all desires are forbidden, for if one does not have a right to exist, one has no right to have desires, to want anything for oneself." THE DEAD MOTHER SYNDROME AND THE RECONSTRUCTION OF TRAUMA Arnold H.Modell

[@lesktube]

Thank you so much for your post ❤️

[@jcc6789]

My life

[@ballsflying]

My mother has a personality disorder with psychotic periods, she totally destroyed me as a child. I managed to become a medical consultant and always worked very hard, my part in the normal world. After a nasty divorce I totally broke down and derailed in an activation of complex PTSD. I never understood the mechanism or even who I am. You hit the spot.

[@timorthelame1]

I have a similar egg donor and I'm learning to not refer to her as being a mother. Occasionally I might even refer to or address her by her first name. I hope you continue healing.

[@ralucadriga8831]

My mom is not a reckless driver, alcoholic, drug addict, nor did she bring strangers in our home (thank God), for the most part of it. She did indeed suffocate me with toxic behaviour, for 10 years, no one saw what I was going through, becuase to the outside world she presented herself as being very affectionate. But home was a hell.

[@franceshaggitt3104]

Get you

[@anon33777]

Oh God, yeah same with my mom... at this point i think that only death (me or her) will finally let me be free from her.

[@Imallik2772]

My mother did all these

[@helenh3274]

Prof, your 'dead mother' explanations are painfully clear. This is by far the best analysis I have experienced on this crucial subject. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights.

[@Wtfyrdohins]

I am a borderline mother, who has an understanding of her mental issue. My emotions go up and down. But I always love my kid. Your videos help me recognize where I am failing, but sometimes it seems that I can’t fix it. My emotional outbursts are the main impact to my child, but I always apologize with my whole heart. I love her with my whole heart… I want to give her the world, but my depressed state holds me back. Broke my heart to hear that the borderline mother effects a child more than the narcissistic mother.

[@sharonnosal644]

Treatment for BPD is neccesary & it's effective. You deserve to live in peace, without those emotional up and downs. You sound like a caring, loving parent.

[@shaunfitzgerald4947]

BPD Is on a spectrum where you fit is your own place on that spectrum and if you work on it you can go to a new place on that spectrum. It sounds as if you are already on your way. You can do it.

[@TaylorAmelia]

Me too 😢

[@EmmaSuprema888]

Sam, I watched one of your dialogues with Daria Zukowska a while back and was taken aback by your mentioning of the child rendering the mother dead internally and instead creating imaginary friends. Now comes the long-awaited follow-up! David Bowie once talked about how growing up with a schizophrenic mother affected him, saying it kind of made him feel like an alien in society - thus creating the inspiration for his early sci-fi-related works. My mom was diagnosed with a psychotic disorder (schizo-affective) but also exhibited strong BPD traits (surely had it though undiagnosed). Since moving to the other side of the world where I could start my own healing process, I have turned every rock questioning things I used to believe, and if not being fully able to recover, life can at least improve a bit from here. Btw, this is the ONLY video I could find talking about Andre Green’s work on the dead mother (in English), so thank you! This is absolutely crucial for people with identity disturbance.

[@samvaknin]

I analyze Green’s work in well over 20 of my videos.

[@EmmaSuprema888]

@@samvaknin Oh yes, I found some other ones now upon searching. Yours is the only channel though! I did find videos from other sources only in French and Spanish. 🙃

[@firefly4704]

@EmmaSuprema888 -- Do you remember the title of the video you mention above (imaginary friends)? I'd love to watch it.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

So true, my mother wants me *by her side playing the part she wrote for me* but when I tried to connect with her in an honest way, it made her angry. Really baffling. I have real communication with my daughter though. I let her tell me/herself who she is. She is the voice of her experiences. I listen, I'm curious. My mother's death mothering is useful as a reminder of what behaviours cause a daughter pain, so I do what would have soothed me.

[@Sylveste22]

They’re not complete people. If you go ‘off script’ they just pause and yes, often respond with anger. But they really do pause just like a tape. At the age of 45 my mother will still talk to me about when I’m going to ‘get my head down to work’ and start studying the university subject she wanted me to study. They really just don’t seem to be able to process non-script activity. You can make them acknowledge it on a short term basis - but by the next day it’s gone. Very odd and frustrating conversations to have. Really best to avoid.

[@Padraigp]

Mine just talks about whatever tv shows and whatnot and then never asks me how i am she doesnt seem to know anything about who i am. I remembering being 12 getting my first period and her telling me fairies lived in my tummy and i was like what the actual fuck? And i stopped asking her questions and then there was silence because i wasnt aksing her anything. And she wasnt ansking me

[@markeric1337]

That's good that you have been able to do that. I either get an eye roll when people say their mother had BPD, or, explain an early parting of ways, up to my GP who had a restraining order against her mother at 17, and hasn't seen her mother in decades. I hope someone who is the child of a woman I was recently around will be okay. The mother, a drug addict with BPD (I didn't know this at the time.) explained to me early on that she always wanted a 'Gilmore Girls' relationship with her daughter. At 15 the daughter had become a boy and changed his name, then a few months later became non-binary. I thought it was strange that a mother would tell me that disappointment regarding her own child when I really didn't know her that well at all. Or that the child had to be a character, or accessory she envisioned for herself, over supporting her child's wants. I had been in a band with this woman, and then we somehow broke off to do a band together when she was fired. She became homeless for 2 months after that band (no connection to the band.) We helped her move out, and It was heartbreaking to see her son cry as he was taken away. I gave her space to get her life back together, at her request, of course, which I was later blamed for doing. I offered her to stay at my place, which she declined and drove her to meetings to help her in all this. so, I'm not sure what I did wrong. After 2 months of trying to get past everything she saw was wrong with me, I just wanted to bring it back up to the music, the original point. The whole thing was sabotaged by her almost instantly, in a baffling display of cruel backstabbing that stung me a lot and made me leave the whole thing. I blocked every point of contact. During these 3 months, I was not allowed to talk the the son, be around him, be in the house when he was there, and finally, not allowed to enter the house at all, besides going to the toilet quickly. It seems this followed after I introduced myself to the son when the 3 of us happened to be in the kitchen, for like, 20 minutes, but it appeared I wasn't going to be introduced. I don't know. It's a long story for such a short time. I just hope the son will be okay. The son was evidently told not to talk to me as well. The son seemed, just, resigned, and detached. Bored and frustrated, but over it all. My apologies for this too-long comment. I'm still processing this hurricane I just went through. Trying to understand why I was treated like I was. I don't get the whole issue with the son. It made me feel like I was being treated like a pedophile or something. I've never seen that. I don't know what that meant. I guess it'll just remain a mystery and fade away like my GP's mother did. Bands are hard, but that was traumatizing. That was the very, very short version.

[@spiritualone1]

My bio mom is a Narcissist at 92 years old. I’ve had to create distance for my sanity. When I do talk to her there is no deep meaningful dialogue. All my life she projected unto me. My sons are adult men and she’s racist. My sons don’t talk to her. She has never said one positive thing to me ever in my life. If she died I don’t even know if I will cry. I do understand her upbringing. I am having a hard time to forgive her. I used to say to myself as a child what did I do wrong? No love, coldness etc…

[@marciestoddard730]

Thank you for sharing that. It made me remember a time when my mom abandoned me and asking myself what i did wrong. Its healing to remember.

[@melbaT2770]

I have no memories of my mom being happy until dementia started setting in. She was a pleasant kind woman her last 9 years because of the dementia. I lost my mean critical scowling mother, but gained a sweet mother who forgot who I was. Took me years to understand everything she put me through, and now I know she did the best she could. She was a wounded soul who had a very bad childhood and early adulthood. I chose not to repeat the cycle with my son after years of therapy and support groups and knowing God the way I see Him. I appreciate Vaknin’s video so much! He answers so many questions I have about my relatives, ex, and current loved ones. He is generous to share all of his knowledge and wisdom on this platform.🙌🏼💖

[@ZealForWisdom]

My wife's mother actually died when she was 5 or 6 of cancer. Would that essentially be the same thing? Sorry if this is a silly question. I believe my wife has NPD or at the very least many of the personality traits of someone with NPD. It's scary how aligned her behaviour is with all that I've been reading in the past 5 months. I can't stop, I'm obsessed. Thank you @samvaknin for all your hard work researching and preparing these lectures. It has been immensely helpful. I hope that you never stop.

[@georgiakombakis1356]

Until recently I thought my mother was a narcissist, until it finally click in me that she actually fits all the criteria of a classic borderline. I grew up with a void in me. She had created that black hole that still now in my 50s I’m still struggling to climb out of and deal with my own cptsd. Thank you for creating these videos for us. They sure helps us understand better cluster B personality disorders. 🙏😊

[@livelystones7773]

Can I ask if you have children and if that has helped any?

[@georgiakombakis1356]

@@livelystones7773 Yes. I have 3 children. As much as I tried all my life to give them what my mother didn’t, I have realized lately that because of the lack of mothering I had , I was lacking in the emotional bonding. As I fear intimacy I’m not a hugger. I now feel I should have hugged them more. I still have that “ whatever I did it wasn’t good enough “. Idk , maybe I’m being tough on myself, but when you’ve been abandoned by both parents as I have you’ll always have that “ I’m never good enough “ feeling. I’m working to change that. I think kids who have been abandoned by their parents are their own worst critics. We punish ourselves before anyone else can throw judgment at us. Thank for your question. I hope you’re dealing with your own traumas. It’s not easy figuring all this generational traumas that are getting passed down. We have to break this cycle. I wish I had figured all this much earlier. I wish you well 😊💛

[@DelSunflower33]

@@georgiakombakis1356the awareness you’ve gained gives me hope, never too late to start hugging and continue in this path of evolution

[@georgiakombakis1356]

@@DelSunflower33 No, it’s definitely never too late to better ourselves. Reevaluating and awareness of how our behavior impacts the lives of the ones around us are the key. I wish you well on this journey. 😊

[@lady12roses]

My mother abandoned me at school, aged 5 years old, I was 14 years old next time I saw her...I am the result...my grandmother saved me.

[@timorthelame1]

I'm sorry things were like that for you. I too was saved by my Grandfather. He's been gone for a long time but not a day goes by that I don't think of him. I hope you have a good life. That is all.

[@Howl909]

There was a point in my life when I started to actually feel my mother's energy. And the way it felt to me was as though she was an octopus clinging onto me with her tentacles. That was what I actually though to myself. I became repelled by it. At that time I still could not envisage her as a narcissist because she didn't fit the popular analogy available to the general public. I began to get it the more I looked into things but It still blows me away to hear this analogy.

[@DHW256]

Our mother resented that we were born: we kept her from her full potential, according to the countless enraged diatribes we endured. I was the only child to confront her on a regular basis, and I caught hell for it as I was the primary reason she felt she couldn't leave our father for being less than a perfect father to her first child, who was born out of wed-lock. Her life was a hurt locker of her own making, which she projected onto us and our dad. Sadly, even his spirit was broken by her crap, and he remanded himself to living with the emotional and mental chains and whips with which she abused him. Sadly, Dad was murdered by a stoned driver who hit him head-on. Despite the hardships thrown at him over the years -- especially marrying our mother -- he managed to become a very successful scientist. During one of his many memorial services, Mom had the nerve to tell everybody, "I made him the man he was." I wanted to protest, but the collective silence told me it was unnecessary. I did my best to spend time with Mom after Dad was gone, but I was constantly confronted by her backbiting. Her attacks sinuously became very public, especially when the prosecutor of Dad's killer praised me for promulgating the arguments that were used to charge, convict and sentence the perp. I finally gave up and walked away, I christened her "Miss Information, the Queen of Envy". She managed to mold at least two of her children into clingers who wouldn't leave her side. One of them gave her COVID because he refused to respect simple protocols for colds, and it killed. And, naturally, he and her other codependent have completely screwed up the family estate projected the guilt and shame of who they are onto the rest of us. I can hardly wait to get them out of my life, once and for all.

[@VMM34]

I can understand your experience. My mother wished her two youngest hadn't been born as we had a different father. And as terrifying as it was to challenge her due to her icy cold deranged anger it was always myself who did it. The pure fear I felt in doing so at the time made me fear all women, although I am a female myself. Later in life after she died and I put myself through torture trying not to feel happy that she was gone, I began to realise how brave I was in challenging her at the time. How I plucked up the courage I don't know, but my sense of fairness has always got me in trouble. I truly am glad she's no longer alive (heart attack age 58, her previous angina she blamed on me). I now no longer speak to any of my family for some years. It's the most contented I've ever felt. I'm still fairly much terrified of women so I don't make friends, but who cares, I'm happy with this peace now. Thanks for sharing your story. I think there's plenty of us out there who have endured the same type of experience and it does shape our lives negatively.

[@jcc6789]

It took me five plus decades to escape what I believe now was a psychotic mother with narcissistic tendencies-no words to describe the damage. I'm attending to heal, but this much of a life gone-a life i never had.

[@Aertistic]

I'm not qualified to diagnose what exactly what my mother's problem is. But she is obviously in one of these categories you mention. This video has bizarrely good timing because just two days ago she texted me, "YOUR MOTHER IS DEAD! DEAD YOU HEAR ME NOW?!" I definitely suffer from depression and anxiety. I don't believe I lack empathy though.

[@LizaB486]

Tell her to shut the hell up and you won't be depressed anymore. Lol

[@TaylorAmelia]

Those with BPD have empathy. In fact their empathy is higher because it has to be BECAUSE they’re constantly reading emotions and adjusting themselves in order to not lose anyone (fear of abandonment). Dr Daniel Fox has a great video about that

[@Padraigp]

Wow. Well you know what you should believe her. And what you do with dead people is you greive their loss and you move on and maybe put flowers on their grave once a year. Block her asap my friend. You will have prople in your life who are motherly towards you. I grew up without a dad but i met kind men who gave me lots of advice and didnt take advantage (along eith the ones who did) and they were my fathers. A mother is somone who mothers you. If somone doesnt mother you theyre not a mother. And although that person may be dead as they have told you. That doesnt mean you dont have people in lofe who will be a mother to you and show you motherly love. I hope right now im giving you some sisterly advice in saying that you deserve a living embodiment of motherly love in your life. Not a corpse. Let the corpse go and grieve the loss and find things that embody motherly love. I found many books by long dead people gave me more fstherly love than my lving dad who wasnt in my life. Bless you.

[@terryhutchings7701]

I love that you say ‘look it up’. Every time my children would ask me how to spell a word, I would tell them the exact same thing. 😊

[@a.garcia7127]

I was very fortunate to grow up in the community I did in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. I played basketball, swimming, bodysurfing, skateboarding. As neighbors I had sculptors, doctors, athletes, gangsters, religious people, etc. I've studied two religions: catholic and hindu. I had psychopath friends, intellectuals, rich and poor. I studied the life of Generals who liberated oppressed people. All this made me a tough cookie that my very sick mother could not destroy. I'm affectionate, caring and compassionate. She couldn't break me. I'm tough as nails. Thank you Professor Vaknim. Take care.

[@ShadowJerker-st3lj]

I don’t know if you did it but I’d like to know about emotionally incestous mothers. My exes mother would text him not to have sex with me, would call him 4-5 times a day, and was basically his girlfriend. At the breakup she followed me and my daughter around and made sure she went through all of my things and kept what she thought she was owed. Her oldest son became a drug addict and died

[@mapsdot9223]

He did/has. It's part of the enmeshment dynamic he refers to it as fusion sometimes.

[@mapsdot9223]

kzbin.info/aero/PLiZJ5c2jzS94phqz52dmWabPRD4SlQ9E3 I found this list someone put together. It has several vaknin vids on it. The big idea is this though. A primary caregiver who uses a child to regulate their emotions perpetuates the infantile bond past infancy. This lack of boundaries means there is no clear delineation between ego functions, thereby enmeshing or fusing the parent/child. Individuation and separation is what would happen in a healthy relationship.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

She sounds like a severe case of malignant narcissist. 💀 That's fucking treacherous and disgusting. The jealousy and envy that flows in their veins is monstrous.

[@hazzardcounty737]

@ShadowJerker-st3lj - Read the book “When He’s Married to Mom”. I found it really helpful, these people never change. My ex would use his Mom to smear campaign me to and use her to triangulate arguments with me (when she had nothing to do with our arguments). I once had to sit down with his Mom according to him to declare we want to work things out and somehow I had to apologize to his mother? It was like, wtf? She proceeded to verbally assault me and was fuming. I was the only calm one at the dinner table just sitting there taking it, while she stood up and pounded on the table. Meanwhile ex was right outside the window “watering plants” and letting this abuse take place. These people are really sick. I’m so glad I got out of that relationship and will never have to call her a mother in law.

[@baciugeorgeta3426]

Your ex mother in law went through your things to check if her son did “cheat” her with YOU. Emotionally and phisically.

[@Omegha94zip]

Well.. I'm ashamed to say that I have BPD and I have just fully realized how terrible of a mother I truly am. I have an 11 year old son. Prof. Vaknin, what can I do to reduce the harm to my wonderful, sweet little boy and help heal what my issues have already undoubtedly caused him? I just recently started counseling again and started on my self awareness journey a couple years ago already. I have always wanted to break the generational cycle as to not cause my son to experience the same pain I did but watching this has led to some even deeper reflection and I would be a liar to act like my son is much better off than I was. Especially since a horrible breakup with my narcissist husband and trying to understand his issues better is what led me to start watching your videos again.. which my son was privy to. Not to mention, I'm currently pregnant as well... I see more each day what a pathetic mess I am and I can't even handle the thought of not drastically correcting this traumatic train wreck that is myself and damaging the people i love most any further. Please, any of your scholarly advice will be invaluable to me and my family. My husband told me several times before that I was going to turn my son into him, in a bad way. Although from what I know, his mother was more narcissistic than bpd anyhow. Nevertheless.. I worry I am a lost cause. I refuse to give up because of the people I love so much needing me to be healthier. Oh my goodness this comment is painful to type out. Thank you all.. I'm sorry..

[@samvaknin]

Search the From Child to Narcissist playlist.

[@cheerfulsoul3055]

I feel so sorry for you and relate to your experience. But please don't destroy yourself with guilt and shame. Your courage to face and acknowledge any unconsciousness on your part in the past is the road to grace and change. I'm on that road myself and, though extremely painful, Im getting glimpses of strength and solidity. I may not be able to change the past (too late for me) but you can, for your new baby and those around you. Please have faith and I pray you find the support you need from good professionals. ❤❤❤

[@boyardstreet8357]

I rarely comment but I have to thank you for the brilliancy of your expose and the depth of your analysis coupled with a great ability to vulgarize the material (and your gem intros! :). I understand myself and others in a way I never did before and I observe subtle but meaningful changes in my behaviour and cognition as a result. I love how you plunge in the heart of the matter without ‘turning around the pot ». I bought your book 15 years ago but your videos are the best. Many many thanks, all my respect ✨

[@Indrid_cold777]

This has spoken directly to my soul. These are hard truths Sam.

[@user-ux1hn7wk7v]

I know a covert npd mother with 3 brilliant kids...the eldest son got diagnosed with schizophrenia around the age of 19-20, the daughter has bpd, and the youngest son is a somatic narcissist.

[@johannalehtinen9256]

I still haven't figured out to which category my mom falls into, but boy did I try to talk sense to her, of course always failing. I have had to work on myself my whole adult life after her raising me, which was a mixture of daily fits of rage, indifferense, u could almost say neglectful. Putting me on the same line with her and cold treatment with occasional good time . Also she always needed an opponent and as a good girl I provided that to her, if she didn't have clear external enemy. I did have a good father, although codependant and enabling her. I felt grudge against my mom my whole adult life, except few years back there was an incident and I just saw her and felt so sorry for her and was liberated of my hate towards her. I still don't want to have much to do with her, but more than what I used to feel, hate, bafflement, grudge I now feel sorrow and compassion for her. Though the shadows are long and the marks are infiltered in the core of my being I'd still say I'm doing pretty alright.

[@lesktube]

EVERYTHING you describe has been my experience as well.

[@lesktube]

Also, continued happiness and success in your life. Thank you for sharing ❤️

[@theloveflows8773]

This video literally puts so many pieces of the puzzle together for me. Sam thank you!!!🧡

[@angelapereira1972]

Professor... at 51 you make me see clearly all my life before my eyes as a narcissist mother's daughter 😢 A much obliged gal from Portugal

[@polyjb1]

Hey professor. I can't survive without you. Have watched all of your videos. Many several times. I discovered I was with an npd after a discard and 8 years + 3 children. Thought that was the worst. Then I just spent 18 months with now I know to be a borderline. She monkey branched and ghosting me and has been clearly acting out and trying to obliterate me. God help me. I'm wrecked. 😮. Thanks for what you do. Your "how the borderline sees you" is so spot on.

[@aahaider4453]

Outstanding video, amazing insights Prof. Vaknin. One question - could it be that a psychopathic narcissistic husband provokes wife into being psychotic which creates long term depression and in turn creates deadness and thus unavailable for the children creating long term problems for them as you describe. Or is it that her deadness caused the husband to become pyschopathic and detatched. Much appreciated.

[@carlacarlacardoso4306]

loved it!!! My mother NARC+BPD completely crazy!!! She is dead but i have 2 sister Narc Sociopath- I live alone away from them!!!

[@inspectorforyou7624]

My mother is dead inside to me (daughter) but is fully present to my brother. The one thing here though that needs to be touched on is a lot of these moms have had trauma in their past life and in order to survive they had to go dead inside especially to fulfill the asyital rule placed upon her of being a wife and a mother and raising children and a family and then also working as well.... My mother is completely detached emotionally from me I never has been hugged by my mom or loved or cared for the reason being is because she did not really want to have me she was cohersed by my father in 2 getting pregnant and having me which would have been her 3rd child. Her 1st child a boy died in a car accident under the age of 2 while my parents were driving to a family function a big tractor trailer wheel fell off of a truck and rolled over the back part of the car and smashed my oldest brother to death. I was not born yet at the time however my mom was pregnant with my brother that is alive At the time of the accident. When my older brother was born the 2nd son to my parents my mom thought God had given her back her son that had just been murdered less than a year prior. So she grasped onto my brother and never let him out of her sight and always cared for him and tried to make sure nothing ever bad happened to him this is all a Is reaction from trauma. She did not want to have another child but my father being Italian wanted to have 2 children and CO Hurst her into getting pregnant again after finding that she was on birth control and lying to him for a year. Out of guilt she went off of the pill and got pregnant with me within a month. There is always a history behind why a mother is not attached to her children, Because it is a natural thing for a mother to be attached to her children unless she suffers from some sort of mental incapacity mental psychosis which is usually from trauma... So while my mother was a horrible mother to me when I was growing up and it caused great tips between my brother and I and my brother and I are not close at all because of my mother and her behavior towards him which was different towards me, I do understand why she is the way she is from the trauma that she has suffered most of her life especially at the loss of her one and a 1/2 year old baby boy in a car accident there's a lot of guilt that runs in my family

[@franceshaggitt3104]

Finally someone who went through same...my mum lost her daughter crushed by a tractor tyre on farm. I was the answer to her anger and she doted on my older sister. I was punch bag. She had like your mum a child straight after my little sister died. It is horrible . My mum quietly suffered and never got help for her or me. My dad was angry to me too and my older sister got all the love and she manipulation used it to get her way....now my sister has control and lives in parents big farm house to her pleasure. It was always my sister's goal to shun me . jealous...my mum said she be jealous so couldn't talk to me see me

[@talon5985]

I hope to survive to the end, Let's all be safe. Like and comment now, y'all!

[@dangfd551]

25:15 I love this, you still keep a sense of humor through such problematic issues. “Photoshopping” such a great analogy for that cognitive process

[@vandolmatzis8146]

This one hit hard.Thanks Prof.

[@1Jackel99]

This is IT! JUST SHARED 😮 gee... so true. So sad

[@raze956]

man honestly, what those children go through is just sad. and it happens so often as well. is there even something that you can do for those, when you are an outsider (not part of the family)?

[@stavokg]

This blew my mind. Thank you.

[@MartianPlanetArt]

@samvaknin You unknowingly explained the recurring tornado dreams I had throughout childhood. Initially, I identifed mummy dearest (

[@spiritualone1]

Prof Sam, you are too funny 😊 I appreciate the humor in relation to the seriousness of the topic Narcissist.

[@auaticamazon]

Thank you Sam Vaknin Fascinating talk delivered brilliantly. Always love the humor too

[@mariaelenarodriguez6188]

Painfully clear. Thank you.

[@almosthome5971]

Amazing! You have given me the information I needed to understand what must've happened in the narc's life. I was confused which parent was the narc because they both had bad behaviors, but the mother was delusional for sure! Wow. I've always been sad for him...too bad he can't see things any other way. Thank you! ❤

[@osage2139]

Thank you for this lecture it was very enlightening.

[@2Up2DownLiving]

My mother was controlled by my step-father....i realised this at 48 years of age. His spiteful words came out of her mouth. However, he allowed her to go completely over the top where MY children were concerned. He allowed her to smother and spoil them to the extreme without any permission from me. He also allowed her to have her photograph taken in MY wedding dress......that sort of crap. I dare not say a word. I realise now that she never stood up for me, when he berated me for just existing, as she was scared of him......she professed to a friend she was 'fed up of being in the middle' even though I never argued or raised my voice nor did i ever do the 'you're not my real Dad' thing. He just wanted her to himself. She was stifled. I wasn't allowed to ask any questions about my biological father.....he was killed in a motorbike accident , on which my mother was a pillion passenger pregnant with me. I missed out on his side of the family and still don't know them. It was like being blind in one eye. The only time he was ever mentioned was when she was trying to emotionally blackmail me with ridiculous statements like " I promised your Dad that.....(anything from her wedding dress choice to her choice of my kids' names)" as if you'd discuss things like this with your new husband of a few weeks. She lived her life 'keeping the peace', apparently..... but never defended me. Apparently also, my abusive husband beating me up was 'none or our business' according to my step-father. After one incident she declared "your dad says we won't go to the Police, THIS TIME, as He (ex husband) will stop us seeing the children". That's when total isolation was confirmed to me. I hurt because my mother was living a miserable existence and couldn't confide in me and now it's too late. She couldn't wait for me to get married so she could 'get some peace'..... this she declared at my wedding. In front of everyone. She also, on my wedding day, announced she was going to be a Grandmother. Day ruined! In fact, it turns out i was just the vessel that provided her with her much craved Grandchildren, which she always called "my kids". I was a non person....... just like my step-father had always treated me.....and metamorphasized into a narc magnet.

[@joe-yuugen]

Thank you for explaining the harsh reality.

[@berlinetta____2680]

Excellent lecture yet again Professor Vaknin.

[@BenjaminAstral]

Thank you for your profound and refreshing lectures. They help a lot. Beste Grüße aus Köln!

[@jeanpollack5102]

Thank you Dr. Vaknin, lets look at the many causes of dead mothers is highly affected by abusive men in the parental relationships within the child's world so healing the parental bond is so important.

[@CosbyFan]

I can see my mother fitting both the narcissistic and borderline description, but moreso the first. I’m still unsure if I developed into full fledged narcissism, borderline or both. My memories from 2-4 are mostly of being dazed, absent, and confused. I would either attach to and follow around one kid at a time or just be playing on my own. When I was around 4, I remember asking my mother about a movie I thought I’d watched where a boy has to rescue his mother. I was confused if it was a movie I saw or a dream I had or if it was all in my head. She said she’d never heard of it and I forgot about it. Looking back that was likely the narrative I was living in, but would me saving her be my shared fantasy or hers? If it was mine then I probably became a narcissist. If it was hers then I guess I made it to the borderline twilight zone. It just seems like a rather narcissistic fantasy for me to “save” someone with “love,” but that has been the pattern of my relationships so far, also it is extremely easy for narcissists to seduce me and i love it. Anyone’s input on the NPD vs BPD thing would be appreciated

[@aymericduvernay7031]

Awesome démonstration. Thanks a lot for that. And free. Greetings from French Guyana , south America 🎉❤

[@PrettyPortUK]

Learning so much from you. I will be watching this video again. Thank you Prof. Sam

[@ririimari]

Can a mother have narcissism AND borderline at the same time?

[@samvaknin]

Yes. Comorbidity.

[@complexdrive304]

this was a great watch. i just hoped there were timestamps for each mother and relationship

[@fangsclaws]

The more I listen to Prof. Vaknin, the more I'm convinced of my own Narcissism.

[@DelSunflower33]

Bcuz we live in a world of continuity, the awareness we gain always gives opportunity to first find forgiveness for the things we did not see that now we do - and start stirring that boat towards change….

[@cheerfulsoul3055]

wondering the same thing 😢

[@concernedcitizen2076]

Me too but I think it is a spectrum, I know I have several traits (borderline mom) but knowing why we can work on it.

[@anon33777]

I had to suffer a lot because of my parents. So much abuse (also physical), screaming, no empathy and all kinds of stuff but what i just can´t forget is when on mother day i was in the kindergarden and all the children and moms met in a big room. The kids on the one side and the mothers on the other, with a nice selfmade present in their hands (we made it weeks before and it took a very long time and i put all my hearth in it), were slowly walking towards their moms... my mum should have already been there for a long time. I was still hoping she would come into the room any secound. I was also starting to walk towards the mums, because everybody else would too, but my mum still wasn´t there. I was so angry and ran out of the kindergarden as fast as i could. They couldn´t even catch me... and there she was just chatting with a friend. I was so sad and angry... but she just didn´t feel bad at all. My emotions completely devalued... she didn´t say it i think, but the way she acted was like she was saying "ooow poor think, sorry that you feel that way!" It´s so sad. As a kid you are just so pure and give all your love... all your love to this monster where nothing ever comes back....

[@carol-ri4ms]

I had so much pain I was trying to process when my kids were little. I tried in every way to be emotionally present but I still failed in so many ways. How can I be a help now that my children are grown? So sad that pain perpetuates pain even with immense effort to be healed and safe.

[@cheerfulsoul3055]

I hear you and feel the same

[@ohboy7790]

That was amazing, I've listened to it twice now, very poetic Sam, like a fable in some ways. Like is a project death is the default, yep, choose life.

[@annam3662]

My grandfather got 2 women pregnant at same time. My father and his sister were born several days apart. The grandfather had to choose wchich woman to marry. He chose the other one. Had 5 kids with her. While my father was left ro be fatherless illegitimate bastartd, raised by single mother and her brother who reamianed single. Idk how my grandmother was treating him. All i know is they were poor, living in poverty, idk how, but this combination made him into narcissistic demon. Just from my granfather not being capable of holding his willy in control, a whole hell unraveled , including my fathers childhood, him suffering being fatherless and and his narcissism destroying my poor mother, and her kids being broken and their life broken

[@user-qt8ly8qk9e]

My mom is a narcissist.. I don't morn the narcissist... I'm morning cause I never had a mother... I was raised by a narcissist... I'm 62 years old and just found out... I had a great relationship with my grandmother, my dads mom. My mom hated it.. My grandmother was living with us... She told my dad she leaves or I leave.. My dad an apt for her.. I use to go visit her til i got caught.. I was told to never visit her, Im your mother not her.. She told my grandma she was never to allow me and brother into her apt.. I was crushed.. 2 yrs later she moved away... Several years later my grandma passed away.. I no longer associate with her after she tried to kill me 2 yrs ago by antifreeze poisoning... I was so brainedwashed. She kept bringing up that she had left over antifreeze she hadn't used in a while.. I told her to turn it in to the fire dept, they'll dispose of it.. She said no, I might need to use it.. Within a few weeks I started feeling ill all the time, missing work, kept telling me I need to quit my job, it's too stressful... Your missing too much work being sick a lot.. I drink tea w/NO SUGAR.. Couldn't figure out why it was sweet... My brother was murdered by his wife by antifreeze poisoning.. His wife admitted it to me.. My mom kept bringing that up too me... She told me once, why didn't you listen to me by keeping quiet.. I told her my brothers kids had a right to know... She said no they didn't.. She later tried to get me fired from my job.. She told me quit your job and take care of me.. I told her no, you can take care of yourself.. W/several weeks she threw in my face that she was changing her will and give everything to the church.. I told her do whatever you want, I'm tired of the threats, I'm done with all this shit.. I tried to commit suicide at age 15... She never let me have Friends when I was a child... She always threw in my face, I'm tired of you kids loving your dad over me.. Wasn't allowed to date.. She got pissed when she found out I was getting married. She immediately tried to destroy the relationship.. My marriage ended w/in 3 years... Both my boys now refuse to talk noe associate with me... She's constantly throwing in my face that they love her, miss her, and want to see her... I visit them.. I told her that's good... I no longer talk to her since year... I refuse to answer the calls... She's now telling ppl that I'm bi-polar, I was mean to her... Bad mouths me.. I'm going through so many emotions, trying to function.. I even thought suicide again.. I struggle to be the person I was b4 this... I was happy and have a life... I'm afraid to get out and do things again... She knows where I go cause she went with me... was too stupid to figure out it was her way to know my hangouts and she shows up at random.. All I basically do now is work and stay home..❤😂❤😂

[@a.garcia7127]

Your mother is a demon. One thing that helped me a lot was Hinduism. There's a story of a saint that was born to a demonic father who attempted to kill him on multiple occasions. His name is Pralada Maharaj. Reading his story helped me. I was fortunate that I grew up in tough neighborhoods with tough people who were role models. We had a neighbor who was a hitman and once he saw me crying and consoled me, he told me that he went through the same thing with his own mother and wiped the tears out of my face. The purpose of saintly people is to serve as guides and inspiration to others. I wish you strength and wisdom. Take care. Greetings from the Bronx NY USA.

[@JohnDoe-vy5hh]

My mother was a BPD. I remember hugging her leg when I was just little. I have BPD. My older sibling is a covert narcissist.

[@osage2139]

What if the mother was severely abused by her husband and takes this out on her daughter. Could the daughter then develop borderline and could feel the mother never wanted her. I had tried to stay away from her most of the time but now she is old and frail. I don’t have the heart to not help her but it has a bad effect on my mental health.

[@honeybee2699]

Thank you Professor, as usual an extraordinary lecture 👏

[@haniffamatesa]

What about the father present in the same home and he is the decipilinary one and not the Narcissistic mother ?

[@haniffamatesa]

@@mixedlag My father was not abusive at all, he was the strict disciplinary parent and because we had to follow his rules which was to basically conduct ourselves as respectable young ladies which was 6 of us and also to be at home at a cert time everyday after school etc. We as his children were kept on track with our lives and didn’t have to endure all the narcissistic abuse from my mother. We chose to obey my father instead of my mother. We all turned out very successful and are very proud of ourselves today. We never exhibited any of our mother behaviours. Thank God.

[@leslacez]

i appreciate your work dr.💜

[@user-rj3vy8wz7c]

love is stonger than death 💜 thank you so much

[@oksananesterenko2620]

Excellent video. Thank you

[@pamwatkins4855]

Good Vibes to good professor thank you for your help

[@barbaraeliasz]

Beautiful work, Sam Vaknin..

[@sophiepapoutsaki6480]

super video! You are the best ever!

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

Would this apply to autistic mothers, too? Part of the problem with autism is the inability to be objective about the emotional impact that you have on other people, including your children. I think I've been a very good mother to two of my children, but may have let my other child down very badly, without ever understanding why. My own mother was also autistic. My sister says she was a terrible mother who didnt have "normal" emotions and never did anything for us, when we were growing up. On the other hand, I think our mother was a very sensitive person who gave us plenty of space to own our own lives.

[@samvaknin]

Yes, it applies to autistic mothers.

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

@@samvaknin That makes sense. I think my mother was the "right" mother, for me because I'm autistic, too. But my sister's needs weren't met. That's how it seems in our family. With two of the children, we understand each other very well because we are all intensely introvert, and they are also autistic. My first child is very outgoing and chaotic and has developed BPD. We never had a volatile home. I've always been anhedonic, consistently since childhood. I didn't have any negative reaction to motherhood. My disposition has always been gloomy, and pessimistic. That's probably a lot to handle when a child wants their mother to smile at them, although I was demonstrative in other ways. These children are all adults now. So, there's another generation to think about. I don't think autism has ever been properly understood. Even ten years ago, it would have been difficult to find the vocabulary to describe the dynamics of our family. Do you think there would be more support for autistic mothers starting a family now?

[@dilfuzakhaydarova2859]

Very interesting video and useful. Thank you so much Dear Professor ❤

[@namastea]

my poor nephew with such a mother

[@zakatista5246]

I moved overseas for 20 years, largely to have her out of my life. She still did everything she could to destroy that.

[@timorthelame1]

My mother is pretty vacant. She seems to be entirely driven by her own urges and insecurities. She's one of those people that cannot hide her mental illness, although not everyone realizes how bad she really gets. She has the mentality of a very toxic selfish teenager and the emotional development of a toddler. She's capable of saying anything if it serves her purposes.

[@rkn2800]

In my case I had a great friend (bff; both of us male) w whom I developed romantic feelings for & I expressed it to him in a conversation (nothing physical ever happened, I respected boundaries). He did not respond directly, spoke around the topic, but we continued as bff, lots of great times. Went to visit him & his family in Switzerland, it was horrible. Around his family he treated me like complete sh*t & ignored me. His mom & brother were very nice to me & I learned a lot about that family’s dynamic, very strange. Later the mom expressed romantic interest in me & I was horrified. Watching their dynamics so much of this video content rings true & I am pretty flabbergasted. I realized why he so often would say, ‘you know my mom says xyz, my mom thinks xyz’, always found that odd.

[@lisaammons4655]

my daughter has bpd her husband is a narcissist they have five children. The youngest one is five months old the oldest is 13 I just moved away and because my daughter feels a sense of not having control, she blew up on me and I have PTSD. I am going to therapist I have two. But this is the last time that I would ever give her control over me again, thank you for your videos Professor they really helped me understand

[@GlasPthalocyanine]

You might be able to help your grandchildren, if you live close by. Being a grandparent is a bit more relaxed than a parent-child relationship and you could be that person that makes a real difference in their lives.

[@pamwatkins4855]

Appreciated salmon such good information to help us along the way

[@marciestoddard730]

Yes, best salmon ive ever tasted actually.

[@BenOnuMuDiyorum]

*Sam, as you are the most respected in the subject I want to make a shout out in the hope of reaching you.* I have never seen you have used terms of dysfunctional family roles. However, I believe in that context there is a misrepresenting of a group, which is a so-called "lost child." Most of the role-names come from the relation with the parent, mostly from the view of the mother. Like "golden child", he is not golden of course. The mother sees or want to see him / her as golden. Or the scapegoat. It is self explanatory, nobody can be a scapegoat by themselves. However, the invisible child, lost child is a -how can I say- is far away from the reality of the child and his / her relation. We are not "lost" or "invisible". We don't lack anything as a humanbeing. It is conditioning. And as far as I figured out it works like this. Fear -> Guilt -> Shame. The conditioning goes: 1. *Fear* -> Make him / her fear so that he / she won't pick up the courage, feel courages, have the courage to decide to do the thing. (Suspension on the mind. And whatever happens in the household feeds this too.) 2. *Guilt* -> Make him / her feel guilty so that he / she stay stuck, non-moving, actionless (Suspension on the body. Again whatever he / she hears from his mother feeds this. The mother's vocal reactions, shamings on others, other's behaxaviors shape the idea of the child of guiltiness. ) 3. *Shame* -> Make him / her ashamed so that he cannot express his situation, his feelings, emotions, questionings, doubts, fears and guiltiness (suspension on the social realm) When the conditioning succeeded, the boy or the girl start to live in the imagination land. Actually we are not lost. *We are the peasants of the imagination land.* In that context, imagination is more than unicorns and songs or paintings. Imagination of our roles, imagination of our relationships, imagination of everything. *We are "suspended" as a being from the real life and recruited to the imagination land as a non-being.* *So in that perspective. I find it more suitable to call the invisible child as "suspended" child. Suspended from developping, suspended from expressing, suspended from reacting, suspended from interacting, suspended as a whole, as being.* *Thereby, a child, a responsibility, a role (which is obviously not needed as there is a role to represent the total good which is the golden child, and there is a role to represent the total evil which is the scapegoat) is eliminated from the life of the mother, parent.* Good news. The person is only eliminated from the mother's, parent's life. Not the life itself. However there is a need of huge compassion to oneself because as a suspended person, his or her developmental stage is suspended too. It will continue as he / she start to engage in reality which doesn't make a person "less" at all.

[@firefly4704]

My mother has narcissistic and borderline qualities. It seems to be a continuum to me.

[@debraparker6404]

I would hide from my mother. Me not getting hit was random, and many times conditional.

[@tammoseemann4733]

Guten Tag 😊

[@FroggyFrog9000]

my narc mum never once cried in her life.

[@kaylaschroeder1]

Chilling 🌨️

[@versacrum]

@samvaknin i would suggest to refine the name into "rotten mothers". to me is higher descriptive. because dead people give a sense of liberatory stillness, whereas these are fermentig instead

[@mariaelenarodriguez6188]

Green’s Dead Mother Complex starts at minute 52.

[@andrasxi]

is there any healing from this? ( I mean if you were exposed to this and already bacome NDP?)

[@cecillekinnear4585]

My mother was the one I called the poltergeist

[@cherylbommarito5569]

I Appreciate your lecturers ,can identify with much of the dead mother syndrome. I was wondering if you could tell me if the dead father works the same way? With accompanying psychosis ? Does the sex of the child in relation to the dead parent effect the outcome ,specific example : dead father and overprotective possessive enmeshed mother to their son?

[@samvaknin]

No. Mother only.

[@stephylynnpatch]

Oh boy the borderline mother is hitting home hard.

[@abbywalker4753]

So many years of therapy, so many unanswered questions answered here. My eldest sister has fallen into narcissism (age 29). She had to deal the most with our mother who is borderline and narcissistic. She has become the spitting image of her. I have been working very hard at choosing life and even lived with my sister to try to be there for her, but it was too triggering as she has began acting just like our mother. Do you think it is possible to change her worldview considering she is only near 30? I myself am 23 but have been very blessed in finding an incredibly loving and intelligent partner. I feel guilt for avoiding my sister as I have completely cut off my mother for years now, but she presents signs of textbook narcissism and completely shuts down when offered any help/real love. Is it best to cut off completely? Is there hope for such a deeply traumatized person?

[@berlinetta____2680]

Ultimately, only you can make that decision for yourself about whether to cut contact fully or not. I cut contact with my entire family about 2 years ago (they are all enmeshed). Cutting contact was probably the most difficult decision I have ever made. But I had too as I was physically dying due to chronic stress. All my family members are so far down the rabbit hole and so traumatised that they do not want to/cannot see out. What I have learnt is that no one is responsible for trying to "wake" another person up. Everyone has to be on their own path. I woke up though and got out and my family have the same mental opportunities in life as me so either they will or won't. But I am not responsible for that. If you don't want to cut contact then there are techniques that can be practiced to help cope with their behaviour such as: limiting time with them; grey rocking; utter acceptance of their situation; being realistic about the relationship etc. All the best.

[@thewatchers5930]

That's like wishing a billion dollars will show up in your bank account tomorrow

[@DelSunflower33]

I’m the oldest and it’s opposite for me- my younger sister and brothers are so enmeshed… I can only take each opportunity they come to me with something (once a year mostly) to help by showing them unconditional love… and reflecting back to them there power by being a mirror to them. Often it’s to exhausting and they retrieve back to nothingness tho into the black void, the spider web of my mom.

[@Ban_Usury_Worldwide]

So if my wife/child's mother is a covert narcissist, should I leave her or not? He's only 2. If I take him away from her now will it do more harm than good?

[@Sarara-mv5sx]

Why do they fuck us up so badly? I've long come to terms with who my mother is, I have completely realistic expectations. I'm wondering if there is a specific kind of trauma work that needs to be developed for those of us who've had to deal with abandonment trauma, neglect AND this aggressive malignancy. I don't think she even intends to destroy everyone her - it's just what happens. And I can't figure out why!!! I just don't get the dynamic - it's like carbon monoxide, even at a distance. It's like they have the exact opposite effect of the "good enough" mother. Even when you see exactly what's going on, it's kind of poison - and I don't mean "toxic" - mean the murderous kind. It's connected to their pathological possessiveness. They hang on as only a mother can - for dear life. But like a mother in the wild, and I mean an animal, has an instinct to protect their offspring, this kind of human mother just wants to devour and destroy their children. And I don't think they mean to do this - they just don't let go - and so a child is up against this furious maternal figure, equivilant to an angry grizzly defending it's cubs from a predator. But in this case - the human narcisisstic mother turns on her "cubs" the second she senses them escaping her orbit. And she has no limit and not bottomline - she will blithely destroy your life, and not give it a second thought, is able to rationalize every vicious action. My mother is like an animal, I've come to realize. One that is badly socialized, and should never have been granted any power or authority over anyone.

[@evil7529]

😂 so dark. Did Minnie approve of that opening joke?