Death of a Game: Evolve

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

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[@geoDB.]

Death of a channel: nerdSlayer Studios

[@Mojavekight17]

My favorite case so far since I watched this game go down from very very far😅

[@jadedheartsz]

Something tells me we'll soon be seeing "Death of a Game- Back 4 Blood", I mean come the fuck on, forcing you to play with other people to earn story-related achievements? What the fuck man?!

[@Mojavekight17]

@@jadedheartsz yeap

[@leadingauctions8440]

Did he not already do this one?

[@adc1222]

This game just makes me sad because the monster designs were legitimately fucking awesome. Playing a tentacled lovecraftian monster that could fly around and shoot lightning, or just rolling around as an absolutely massive boulder creature was so cool as a concept, but the execution of it and the monetization surrounding it were just awful

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

They put tons of effort in the models, they are gorgeous

[@arandominternetuser455]

This

[@Mincecroft]

I preordered Evolve (it's the reason why I try not to preorder now) and I enjoyed playing as the Boulder monster. Rolling around, squishing smaller creatures and eating larger ones was fun. I enjoyed the gameplay of the Monsters but the queue times for Monster were quite long and I only had one other friend who bought Evolve which severely limited the enjoyment of the Hunters.

[@holoceneevent4534]

its a great idea in its base, make the players the boss creature

[@InarusLynx]

@@Mincecroft I had the same experience. Pre-ordered and got burnt. Never again. My one friend lost interest quickly while I loved the game play, just not the wait.

[@ZybakTV]

I had a lot of fun with this game as someone who almost exclusively played the monster. The problem was that very rarely would you get a coordinated group of hunters that actually gave you any sort of challenge. Even winning as a monster got boring because all you'd do is just run around and hide until you fully evolved...then shit on everyone in 5 seconds. It was a lot of un-fun to reach the fun part.

[@MrJagermeister]

Definitely a game where, if you didn’t have a communicating, coordinating, and strategizing team of hunters working together as a foursome, you were definitely better off playing as the monster. I played in some community tournaments against some of the best hunter teams out there and I can’t describe that feeling of not remembering the last time you breathed, realizing you’re white knuckle gripping the controller and on the verge of a panic attack. Barely squeaking by, or getting obliterated. Wish everyone had the same experience that I did with this game.

[@DefiantYeast0426]

I had so many games as the Gorgon where I'd just bum rush the Hunters as soon as they went boots down. It only failed me once, and that's because I fucked up and pretty much handed them my own ass on a platter. It was good times.

[@WitchLuw]

ALl they needed was smaller maps or make something with the players to level up quicker

[@vforveranda4788]

Ah, then I wish me and my mates ran into you on the battlefield, mate. We were pretty a pretty well oiled hunter troupe.

[@the11382]

I wonder if this game would be better if both sides became stronger over time, meaning its a race.

[@disguy7345]

Evolve is the unfortunate result of a game with an interesting gimmick to it's game mechanics only to be slaughtered due to monetisation that disrespects the fact that you have already paid 60 bucks to play the game. It could have been great, it really could.

[@somedogsarecops2354]

I think everyone agrees the DLC was excessive but that was most like a Take-Two decision. The problem with Evolve was fundamental problems with the gameplay. Even without the crazy DLC the game would still be dead.

[@disguy7345]

@@somedogsarecops2354 true, turtle rock seem to abandon many aspects of LFD2s design of asynchronous PvP, which involves balancing of both sides fairly, the first person view of the monster and overall map design and aesthetic. If take two gave turtle rock a lot more time, i think they would have done better ( LFD2S one year gap of development doesn't count due to valves major involvement and more resources were alloted to turtle rock than the resources they were alloted to by take two)

[@HopeHorizons]

It hurts more knowing if the game was released 2019-2021 then it would've succeeded since monetisation in games you've already paid for are common now

[@luisvilca4467]

Nah, it was just hide and seek game mostly that's isn't fun

[@millardbaldwin7650]

Facts. What made me give up on the game was when I got the collectors edition that came with the first wave of dlc not working and the support team just saying “try reinstalling the game” no matter how many times I told those fuckers I already did that

[@tarael86]

You forgot to mention that 90% of the team that worked on L4D belonged to Valve, not Turtle Rock.

[@theepicduck6922]

Yeah turtle rock has been trying to ride that namesake but it's evident that a majority of the talent has left.

[@gyroscope915]

@@theepicduck6922 the talent didn't leave. They never had the talent in the first place

[@alexanderforrest1983]

If you watch the video about it, only about 15 of the 100s of developers on L4D were Turtle Rock.

[@jockeyfield1954]

turtlerock playtested cs:s and found that it was fun to kill hordes of zombies valve added in the weapons, unique characters, the maps, the special zombies, all of the story elements but, because turtlerock said "hey, killing zombies is fun" they take all the credit for it, not the people who actually fleshed it out and made it better to play. think of bob kane and bill finger

[@dxBIGBOSSxb]

He did between 2:30 - 2:50. He just didn't give an exact number.

[@dorianvey6675]

I was on the QA team for Evolve. this video is spot-on regarding what we experienced because of T2 (nicknamed The Terminator for obvious reasons). In a gameplay meeting with the senior designers, we in QA warned them that the game was a "running simulator" since there was nothing to do but chase the monster, and they disregarded it, saying we had come too far to change aspects to the core gameplay. Later at a bar, we vented that if they had brought us on earlier in the development cycle, we could have possibly helped to warn them against such a monotone gameplay model. Hundreds of experiences like that across multiple publishers and dev houses are what made me eventually walk away from the AAA video game industry and transition into I.T. and non-gaming software development.

[@kamerionsmith4551]

Well it turned from interesting games of cat and mouse, to monster battle simulator where everyone just spams abilities until one side loses. I know which one i liked more

[@viperRX]

even if you were brought on earlier (you = QA team), they wouldn't necessarily listen to any opinion you made since your team is responsible for QA, not product design/ marketing.

[@goblinzaku6211]

It absolutely blows my mind that we’ve had these style games for so long yet every one is missing one of the most basic game mode ideas: monsters fighting each other free for all.

[@TheJysN]

"War of the Monsters" Used to play it as a kid at a friends home on PS2.

[@souxoux1671]

@@TheJysN indeed, War of the Monsters is just that. Great game!

[@tlofrank5689]

I've been wanting to play as a monster for so long

[@osirisavra1301]

Damn right that was my first thought lol and even hunters vs hunters.

[@ihatehollow]

@@TheJysN naw fr I had that on ps2 as a kid prolly one my favorite games to play fs

[@JorgeGarcia-gp5cf]

One of my good friends was a tester on that game. She told me that the testers flat out told the devs that their monetization scheme will ruin the game's chances of success and that it would not go well. The devs refused to listen, and my friend still tells me that was her biggest "I told you so" of her tester career so far.

[@Joao-lw5pj]

Turtle rock(developer) actually wanted it to be free to play since the beginning, 2K(publisher) is the one that demanded it to be a paid game with overpriced dlcs.

[@JorgeGarcia-gp5cf]

@@AzureRoxe Exactly man. I used to be a AAA game tester myself, and you'd think they would want to hear it from testers first since we have to be professional and have to provide constructive feedback. Unfortunately, game devs that refuse to listen to testers and their fans are lost causes.

[@JorgeGarcia-gp5cf]

@@Joao-lw5pj The biggest point of contention internally from what she told me it was Turtle Rock's idea to monetize gun skins. They told them that at the very least they could try to make the skins interesting, however we got them trying to sell us blue (Angry Joe ranted about this one), red, etc. gun skins.

[@SilverShinotora]

Jupp i was a tester and can confirm. Also that the chtulu looking monster was op, i often dumpsterd people as soon as they spawned.

[@Largentina.]

@@SilverShinotora Why would we need you to confirm that? It's not like you're bragging about making millions of dollars. You're telling us that you had a job that paid terribly, we believe you, no proof needed.

[@Indigo_Gaming]

Aw man, still sore about this game! So much potential, and clearly a ton of work went into building the world and making the jungles and environments feel like living places with real ecosystems. I feel that the insane amount of cosmetic DLC at launch poisoned the well, combined with hugely unbalanced launches of new monsters (wraith decoy, anyone?!) and its terrible, terrible matchmaking system that sometimes took half an hour to connect killed the game. It's a shame, I still go back to the original game (pre-Stage Two) and play solo sometimes. What could have been!

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

I am still a believer in monster vs player archetypes which is why I do believe a similar style game could work and work great 👍🏼

[@SarcasticData]

Same. I wanted to love this game so much and I had a lot of fun, but I just couldn't afford to shell out some of the most expensive, content gated DLC. By the time it went F2P I moved on and never looked back.

[@GusMortis]

Left for Dead was a good substitute, but didnt have that same scale. I do agree all the cosmetics where a put off for people. It was a bad call.

[@grantsamson2384]

@@nerdSlayerstudioss There's a game like that, dead by daylight, right?

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

@@grantsamson2384 horror games and the horror genre utterly bore me. Forced you can't fight back mechanics aren't ever fun for me personally.

[@AnimeBrosAMV]

Loved the game for like first 15 hours, then totally forgot about it.

[@CJWproductions]

That's a good return on your money imo. Better than a movie ticket. I don't need or want a game to consume my whole life -- there are so many awesome ones coming out all the time! That said, I'm sure the devs intended more. And I've certainly sunk considerably more hours into certain games. But I feel like 15 hours is pretty solid.

[@tomvonneefe4269]

Go back to playing cod

[@axeman8076]

@@CJWproductions its supposed to be something lke 1600 so it doesnt repeat itself and you can leave the game for 8 or so years come back and theres still more stuff to do

[@polskabalaclava]

@@tomvonneefe4269 why

[@Mizoturi]

@@CJWproductions not if it is supposed to be a live service game, 15 hours of fun is pathetic for what they were trying to pull off

[@medijate]

I feel like Evolve is ahead of it's time in how companies would mangle projects. It's monetisation will be the posterboy for "how to make consumers angry" decades from now.

[@user-ef8bf5xk9b]

most aaa games have even greedier monetization nowadays so.....

[@90benj]

I rather think it was too far behind the curve in terms of monetisation, there were already a lot of successful titles following the game-as-service model, where the content is free to play, but through regular updates you keep the game fresh and finance the developement through MTX

[@anupsetzombie]

Evolve died so modern DLC practices could be considered the norm.

[@Kaimax61]

nah, for that kind of aggressive DLC model they should've gone F2P from the start.

[@manuelredgrave8348]

And nowdays we have Day one paid dlcs as the norm...i was hoping that at least single player games like SMT 5 wouldn't have it, but nope

[@ubermorpth2208]

I'll always remember the mass confusion and disappoinment that turtle rock studios brought with Evolve.

[@goldman77700]

I remember it and I never touched the game. Haha!

[@DmytroBogdan]

@@goldman77700 same, but watched some streamers play and it looked fun but then I remembered that I didn't have 4 men premade team

[@djandjb1]

It was hella fun, this was one of a few games I played where I said to myself, this is entirely unfair that it’s dying

[@RoGoSpLiNTeR]

@@djandjb1 yeap, i jump onboard with the f2p. And I played till near the end. There were no1 to play or sometimes and if you manage to start a game it was always the same people .

[@DmytroBogdan]

@@djandjb1 life is not fair in general :)

[@DoktahDoktah]

"Nobody makes a game for esports." Correction nobody SHOULD but the year is now 2021.

[@josephmeholick1300]

esports are short lived as soon as the leader board becomes a race to the bottom.

[@nathanielnizard2163]

LoL is a trash game that manages to advertise through its competitive scene, if I was a filthy capitalist I would want to do like the cool guys.

[@mythosinfinite6736]

eSports are best when they're emergent, not designed.

[@nathanielnizard2163]

@@GamingDualities I disagree, but nonetheless admire your ability to display a high degree of certitude on a topic you really don't seem so expert about.

[@JohnXina97]

*Cliff Bleszinski sweating heavily*

[@A1phaDrag0n]

I recall reading about this game and thinking "whoa, that sounds like my kind of game" then seeing the list of DLC and completely giving up on buying it. I don't want to put the game together like Legos, I just want to install and play it.

[@ivandankob7112]

Even back then the amount of Day 1 dlcs was a red flag

[@kingol4801]

Except DbD exists and it is literally that

[@browut644]

​@kingol4801 the big difference is you can get a majority of the characters with iri shards fairly easily, while with evolve you literally had to buy them. The dbd characters are also decently cheap compared to the evolve characters

[@lazarlazarteam1033]

@@kingol4801yeah but most dbd killers are free

[@brandonambrose6926]

17:30 Hey that's me! As someone who was heavily invested into this game you did an amazing job with this video. Thanks for this great content.

[@GhostIsAYandere]

Dammnnnnn sonnnnn

[@KlutzyBoss]

Ur the cringelord doin the nae nae?

[@brandonambrose6926]

Naw that was our monster player lol@@KlutzyBoss

[@KlutzyBoss]

@@brandonambrose6926 Appreciate the reply a year in the making :P

[@hal900x]

"They were unable to get that game greenlit". There's your answer right there: they had to do something the suits thought would make money. Result: failure.

[@AuroraDrag0n]

God damn it. I was wondering when Evolve was going to be featured here. This one hit a little too close to home. This is my history. I was right there on the front line, and a piece of me died with this game. I loved this game, I gave it my heart. I will never forgot the incredible hunts I had. I so badly want Evolve to be a thing again, but I know deep down that it's gone for good. RIP Evolve.

[@BarnetGamer]

I feel you, bro. Evolve and Nosgoth were my most favorite asymmetrical pvp games back in the day.

[@s1mplem4gic58]

Same boat

[@clemmychan9295]

god, this is making me so sad. I started playing the game when it became free to public and I instantly fell in love with the game. Unfortunately though that's when it was already starting to fall apart. Just thinking about the massive potential of this game it it were to be released now....

[@TheCueJunior]

I'm in the same boat I wasn't expecting to see this come across my yt home page.

[@burritodevil4036]

same here, one of my favorite games, hopefully it comes back one day re-imagened

[@Jasonwolf1495]

Here's a prime game for comparison when it comes to the hunters side of evolve, Deep Rock Galactic. 4 classes, but the game is built from the ground up to let you play any combination and none being required. They even specifically avoided a medic class because they almost always become required. The need to get 4 random people together to work together is a lot harder with forced roles.

[@bombomos]

Deep rock is beautiful. Honestly I think it works because your objectives are mostly standing still. So you aren't chasing something around the map to get shit done. Plus it's pretty light hearted

[@kedarunzi9139]

@@bombomos how are the objectives, besides escorts "standing still"

[@tiga8600]

That was a pain 4 randoms either completely ass or completely overkill in 1 fight

[@xenophon5354]

Most 4 player co-ops that I’m aware of are like that. There are rough classes, but everyone can get the job done. Vermintide is another example. Rough roles of frontliner, ranged DPS, and utility, but a full frontliner team comp is perfectly viable.

[@Boxfighter-110]

@@kedarunzi9139 veins of Liquid morkite don’t get up and run away eating glyphids until they come back and kick your ass

[@Martiancookiehunter365]

The Death of this game hurt me it was a hell of a lot of fun and it had so much potential behind it it's such a damn shame man

[@tiga8600]

Ain't it werid how most of the community loved the game and or either hated but still sad to see it die out and be left behind forever

[@Laxhoop]

I remember being a regular viewer of Machinima’s daily gaming news channel when this game was coming out. Everything from the reveal, to the downfall, I saw the entire community’s reaction to the whole thing in real time.

[@nuclearattackwombat8390]

The aggressive monetization killed it for me. I was actually very interested in the game and went to the store page looking to buy it. Five minutes later I closed the page without spending a dime. I had vague ideas of coming back and giving it a go once it went on sale or something, but the playerbase collapsed and made it a moot point.

[@muysli.y1855]

And they not learned B4B is same shit

[@Grim_Pinata]

Ngl the first thing I ever think about whenever I remember Evolve is how cool the logo is True graphic design perfection

[@CoratMcRed]

The art design in general for Evolve was really well made overall, tis a shame it got stuck with a game so doomed

[@KyrosTheWolf]

That's arguably the best thing about the game. I never knew the reason for the design choice til my brother pointed it out to me

[@Jeff4theRaid]

I remember the one epic trailer with the Cosmo Sheldrake song

[@LegalPhantom]

One of the trailers/ads had the COO saying: "In 3 or 4 years from now, when a AAA game lets you down, you can say: I'm gonna play Evolve, because, damn, that game is still fun." The best epitaph I've ever heard. Edit: Found it, Min 3:47 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bX6Xg6p9rLamoq8

[@Ivanstov]

makes me wonder if B4B is gonna follow in Evolve's footsteps...

[@phizmeister]

@@andrewmeyer3599 It does everything better than both L4D's. Those are dated games.

[@SubZeroDestruction]

@@andrewmeyer3599 B4B isn't like Evolve. 1: It's not being published by 2K, and 2: It's a game concept that's not completely new and original, so it's more likely to maintain people who enjoy L4D/PvE/Zombie shooters. It's not going to "die" like Evolve, especially if servers stay up, but it's not a game that's expected to have hundreds of thousands of daily players, since it's mostly just a story game which after a couple runs or completion will be good enough for most people.

[@Rusty126]

@@phizmeister L4D 1 and 2 has better characters, better environments, better storytelling, better specials, etc. B4B has a godawful card gimmick meant to milk people of their money.

[@luksgar97]

@@Rusty126 You don't pay real money for the cards, nice of you showing that you haven't played the game

[@lygoozman125]

I genuinely hope they come with a sequel, this game had so much potential it was just cut short

[@halfknight2310]

true, I am really interested in it's lore too.

[@willschoonover8654]

Evolve is one of my favorite games from the last 20 years. Thanks for giving it some time and for exposing all the things that we guessed were wrong with it.

[@WhiplashSL]

You were pretty damn spot on with the flaws and issues that resulted in Evolve's death. Well done. I would like to add to the discussion about the juxtaposition of Left 4 Dead's a.i. zombies and player-controlled infected vs. Evolve's player-controlled monster. The issue with Evolve in this regard is that, in L4D, you weren't just killing one zombie (i.e. Tank, Boomer, Smoker, etc.); you had wave after wave of zombie fodder, on top of the aforementioned player-controlled infected, that kept a given match compelling and intense. If you tried to focus all your attention on the bigger infected (Tank, Boomer, etc.), then you'll get swarmed by the horde of zombies barreling towards you and get overwhelmed. If you focused on those weaker zombies, you run the risk of an enemy player using your diverted attention to their advantage and maybe get a successful kill on a survivor. It also helped that L4D's infected had much more variety, depth, and complexity to how they operated. For example, a smart enough Smoker could position themselves in a very obscure balcony or hallway and snag a survivor. While that's happening, a Hunter could take advantage of that chaos and leap onto another survivor, temporarily taking them out of the action and sewing even more chaos. While all that is going on, a Boomer could self-destruct on the other two survivors to have the zombie horde lock onto them, while a Tank could work on keeping those two remaining survivors away from the other survivors being dragged by the Smoker or pinned by the Hunter. It could get all kinds of heart-pounding hectic fun. But Evolve? Well, firstly you didn't really have anything similar to the weaker, rank-and-file zombies in L4D. Sure, you had wildlife that can interfere in your tracking/fighting of the monster, but that's all they're capable of: they can interfere. Not are or will - but _can_ interfere. At best, the wildlife was more of a nuisance or annoyance than a credible threat. All they served was a potential roadblock in tracking and tailing the monster. If there were far more of the wildlife aspect in the levels (more variety and quantity in terms of how many could, say, charge at you or attack), then it could spice up the game a little bit. One of the things I was hoping to see in Evolve was for the monster to have some kind of battle cry/roar in the end-game that could summon the wildlife to its side, but that didn't happen. Secondly, the hunters in Evolve had only one objective: find and kill the monster. That was it. No killing other wildlife, no reaching a safe house or shelter or holding out until extraction arrives. Just... kill the big, bad monster. It would be like if you took out every other zombie in L4D and only had the Tank, with the survivors being more like exterminators than proper survivors trying to escape: it would get super boring real quick. Also, I wanted to comment on the e-sports part, because I wasn't even aware that there was even an e-sports scene for the game. I still remember one of the trailers for Evolve before the game officially launched where it was presented as a competitive match: live, analytical commentary on everything that was happening in the match, discussing tactics/toolkits of the players, shifting player perspectives, etc. When I saw that, my first thought was, _How on earth could you make a 4v1 an e-sport? Isn't the point of a competitive game being centered around having an even number of players on two teams, or a 1v1 if it's a fighting game?_ I was just thinking that they made the trailer because they wanted to present it like an e-sport (a la Destiny 2, which failed spectacularly at achieving its e-sports aspirations), but I had no idea that they actually turned it into an e-sport.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Great dialogue I appreciate the thoughts

[@leadpaintchips9461]

As to the competitive games, you can have asymmetrical games be competitive but it requires balance, and that's extremely hard to do while still being accessible to the general public. I think the best way of going about it would be a point base system, with each side having a 1 player and a team of 4 and playing two games. Not a "One side kills the other = win" that the base Evolve shows as a win. It allows for the heroes that E-Sports seems to desperately need (the solo player is a natural fit) and can lead to some interesting matches. It's how the tourney scene for DbD is, despite that game being massively imbalanced. If there was a developer who actually cared about getting close in the balance, then it would be even better. Also one of the biggest issues with coop games (even coop pvp) is the level of coordination between us normal plebs and high level/pro gamers. Trying to balance the cluster that is randos being thrown together is a completely different beast than trying to balance high level players together.

[@nandanthony]

Well, dead by daylight did have that esports scene for a smidge

[@magicmanmagicman5955]

I think this game would work for example if one TEAM of players are played a few lesser monsters and one big monster was some sort of hive queen and can shape enviroment, kinda like in the strategy game. This queen can be strong but vulnurable, can recruit lesser NPC creatures, etc. So Hunters can fight the realm itself, destroy some building, stop harvesting of resources, etc. Kinda like playing vs Zerg. Also Evolve monsters just had no personality and was straigh up boring. It is just a big ugly nobrain designs, and the main part of a good design is to make characters fun, iconic and memorable.

[@lockitty7263]

This ones gonna hit hard, I loved Evolve before the console servers were shut down, favorite part was definitely the Hunters personality and dialogue, so much opportunity for a great comic story or movie or tv series based off of it and it’s story. If this game was released current day, at like a 20-25$ price range, or hell, if they wanted to keep a larger number of micro transactions, they probably could’ve made it free-to-play for massive success I hope they do something with Evolve in the future, so much potential

[@mansourhaddad398]

It is free to play I think

[@lockitty7263]

@@mansourhaddad398 Well, it was originally released as a 60$ game

[@WeArrLegion]

I loved this game too and also wished for more of anything about. Such a universe to explore. What I missed most and think they went wrong was with adding more and more hunters instead of monsters. 5 monsters vs 30? hunter varieties? They should've done 2 more monsters instead of the variants and more hunters/variants. Hope we will ever see a proper sequel. Titanfall redeemed itself with their 2nd. Evolve can easily follow suit 🥳❤️

[@tiga8600]

@@WeArrLegion evolve if it ever gets a sequel would be hard to redeem it self from what its known as now. I say a sequel in an aspect of a single player coop with and actually diverse story line would be good for the concept of the game

[@muysli.y1855]

Not with Turtle Rock

[@ShockedLogic]

Aside from problems in core design, Sterling still put it best "Evolve fell down the publisher bullshit tree, and hit every single branch on the way down." And the saddest part is that everything that was done to it that turned players like myself away is incredibly commonplace now.

[@KnakuanaRka]

Amen. 🙏🏼

[@ianwiesendanger2129]

guess why I don't play multiplayer games (and ubisoft singleplayer games; are you kidding me ubi??) anymore? That's right, season passes, microtransactions everywhere, unfinished games on release, completely broken matchmaking and balancing on day one.

[@Idkwhtpsipto]

Is the only way now! Not just commonplace! I literally rely on indie devs at this point. Utter monetized atrocity now is the gaming industry.

[@zoulsgaming9455]

Man this hurts to watch, i loved Evolve and i always felt it was "done dirty" by take2 and the way that they monetized the game. I feel there were 3 big reasons for why the game failed. 1) It was an amazing niché game concept made for a large audience, so the things that made the game so amazing, such as ACTUAL 4 players working together where each member was integral to the success of the game, instead of "COD Team shooter where i can carry my entire team", and the aspect of finding the monster where you had to cut it off while also being close enough to eachother to not get punished for it. Was also what made people, including big youtubers who had plenty of complete inept gameplay videos where they ran in alone and got pounced by the mechanic that prevents running alone, to rage quit the game and put the blame on the game instead of their own failures, 2) the 4vs1 lead to terrible balance issues, which literally every single game we have seen since come out also suffers from, i think the most successful is dead by daylight and the community hates eachother, there was so much discussion about who to balance for, as a solo monster vs pugs it was piss easy, and as a premade group vs monster it was also at times super easy, and then they decided to try and balance for pro play which just killed quickmatch totally. 3) Evolve was a niche game made with an AAA budget that try to make it back, So it was milked harder than it should, this meant that the absolutely amazing voice lines, audio and moveset design let to much less monsters and hunters, compared to if they simply added individual items as was originally proposed. It also came out at a time where the online boiling point for "paid DLC" was blowing over and all the gamer outlets like angry joe who hated COD for doing it but didnt have the balls to scold it, all wailed on Evolve instead with downright lies in regards to monitization across youtube leading people to not even daring to pick it up. Regardless. I managed to find 10 copies for 3 euro, so dirt cheap and sent some to my friends, since you can still play the old P2P version as long as you have a physical copy, so every once in a while i still drop back in for nostalgia.

[@firstnamesurname2482]

At this point, I don't even know how you can even balance 4vs1. It's 4vs1 for god sake, there's always gonna be imbalance, unless the devs are Icefrog, the dude who balanced Dota since forever, I don't think we're gonna see a somewhat balanced 4vs1.

[@zoulsgaming9455]

@@firstnamesurname2482 and thats the problem of the current designs for 4vs1, you would have to in a way make it 1vs1 but with 4 people on one side. Look at DBD, prob the only alive 4vs1 game atm the, and they arent even 4vs1 entirely, since each individual survivor can win while the others lose. In that game if you catch and kill a survivor you have only killed 25% of all enemies, so you have to be able to kill 4 of them in the time span that they have to do their objective, which leads to survivors complaining that they cant outrun the killer and "omg its so boring to be on the hook and dying" because their tribalistic mind only sees it as "killer bad, survivor good" What i mean would have to be something where everybody dies if one person dies, but that just leads to a weakest link scenario. Evolve had the advantage of the having the monster be in control of the match pacing, since it had a win condition that wasnt based on combat. Hence getting 1 kill would make the team weaker and give him time to get closer to his win condition, which was good. But it almost needs to be more than that. How one would do it, i dont know, thats why pve games are much easier to balance for since the base assumption is that the players win, but in a pvp scenario it has to be roughly 50/50, but since every monster win = 4 survivor losses, its never going to be that.

[@nixmilt3040]

@@zoulsgaming9455 to your first point yes I 100% agree a lot of the randoms I played with wanted to play every class like they were a one man army, and I’d just sit and watch the trapper and medic try to take down the monster on their own

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

I loved this game and personally never saw the issues with it this video finally explained why it sounds like all the major issues were on the Hunter side I never played Hunter I feel like a full game that just focused on playing as the monster for longer periods would've been better (even if a bit more niche than a shooter) it's a really big shame that Evolve failed, based on reading the other comments it seems like I'm not the only one who loved it.

[@nixmilt3040]

I loved this game too, but I only played hunter The problem I saw, at least from a gameplay perspective, was a lot of players want to play every hunter class like you play COD or battlefield In Battlefield you can still be a one man army even if your playing medic A lot of people would carry that one man army mentality with them no matter their class But the matches were you got a whole team that “understood game” were pure magic

[@mikebennett153]

Idk if things felt different when this launched but modern day this game feels like a 20 dollar game content wise, assume a lot of people couldn’t justify paying 60 for this

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

@@mikebennett153 personally my way of valuing games is £1 = 1 hour of enterainment as the expectation. anything significantly better is good, anything with significantly less time is bad. in pounds I'm pretty sure Evolve as around £40. according to Steam I got 83 hours out of Evolve. I'd say it was pretty decent.

[@aeonawriter911]

Somewhere out there in a different timeline, this game would have been so fucking amazing Such an amazing concept, 4 hunters v 1 monster with cool ass maps and make your moments, just utterly thrashed thanks to monetization being atrocious

[@robj4078]

I think it’s fundamentally broken. You get to play the monster at best 1/5 games.

[@gjgaming2133]

Agreed

[@stryke-jn3kv]

@@robj4078 Yeah I remember that being a huge problem as people just could not start games. They'd load in, see they're a hunter, and quit in the hope of getting to play monster, basically screwing the other players to an endless loop of getting a player, and then imediately losing a player as they just don't want to play hunter.

[@barubary218]

And that game does exist it’s called Dead by daylight… even if monetization is a thing but still

[@Wheler]

Isn't it just the Predator game?

[@Arcademan09]

Angry Joe's reaction to IGNs score while livestreaming still makes me laugh to this day: Del: "IGN gave it a 9" AJ: " *NO FUCKING WAY!* "

[@WhiplashSL]

WHERE IS THIS GAME? I WANT TO PLAY THAT GAME! I'M GOING TO GO FIND IT!

[@vavra222]

You cant spell "ignorant" without IGN.

[@vavra222]

@@riordian2 What? Did Angry Joe run over your dog or something? AJ might be the annoying screaming guy, but his reviews are pretty spot on. Even then, it should come down to you, to form your own opinion and not rely on others to tell you what to like.

[@stygian5309]

@@vavra222 Nice. :)

[@firstnamesurname2482]

@@WhiplashSL YOU WANT TO GIVE ME A GUN, THAT IS PAINTED BLUE, AND YOU WANT TO CHARGE 2 DOLLARS???

[@bitwolfy]

About the monetization thing, ads telling you to preorder evolve and get a bonus, came out *before* its official announcement. Really shows you exactly what take two had in mind for the game.

[@Zerostealthman]

This video is just incredible, I love the serious analytical vibe that it has and the editing it top notch. This reminds me of the feeling some of my favourite non fiction shows would give me growing up. The format is just infinitely engaging. Nice length too

[@CAW139]

It still hurts my soul a little to see the way this game fell. I loved the core gameplay and had a lot of fun when I played it

[@chewy_bucca]

I really love this game, sad to see such an interesting concept mishandled so poorly, can't wait to watch your video!

[@gabornemes6932]

My words exaclty I loved playing this game early on then just burned out after a while

[@DavidJohnson-mo7ub]

I realise I'm splitting hairs but if something has been mishandled poorly doesn't that mean it's been handled well?

[@Largentina.]

Have you ever played Giants Citizen Kabuto?

[@-Cyuu-]

I'll be honest it was pretty fun and I thought the classes were interesting and their roles were all different and useful in their own way, monster game was very well made, it looked ahead of its time and I just thought in general it was good. People were unnecessarily harsh on it blinded by hype. Definitely was better than back 4 blood now lol

[@gabornemes6932]

@@-Cyuu- I would have to agree

[@Spiritshakerthe4th]

The craziest thing about this game to me is that, in my country, the hype leading up to it was insane. As an Asian country not being Japan, Korea or China, gaming marketing was relatively unseen but yet this one had banners, electronic display trailers, big marketing collaterals, etc. Everyone I knew had played L4D and was interested in this next co-op experience by the same company. Then the game launched and like the Dwarves from the Elder Scrolls everything just vanished. Public interest dissipated almost overnight, the people who were interested suddenly just weren't anymore, copies of the game sat on shelves and the local community just went "I think I'll just stick with Monster Hunter". I can safely say, in my almost 3 decades of existence, I've never seen anything like this in gaming in terms of horrendously botched execution. Even Avengers and Anthem took time to die but EVOLVE, at least in my country, almost felt like a stillborn. What a shame.

[@radarphaser]

An FPS game like monster hunter would be amazing

[@HiroyaFujimiya]

Welp Evolve is one example of hype manipulation on years 2000 that failed on game(today is CP2077). And yes . that also my thinking, they wanna create Monster Hunter into FPS genre but they failed to exactly guess what make Monster Hunter great: a LOTS of monsters to hunt and complicated but fun game mechanic to learn and getting good with.

[@ihatethatyoutubedisplaysyo8106]

@@radarphaser bowgun

[@Saurygiel]

@@radarphaser a monster hunter game like evolve would be even better

[@JimJamTheAdmin]

Same! The only one I remember being similar, even around the same time, was Battleborn, but that did not have nearly the hype or media presence.

[@guillermocortes4415]

There should be an episode dedicated to "Why eSports fail" it's a very recurring theme and developers just seems to not get it. It's not even a recent thing, remember Firefall?

[@oscarriveraabal9390]

I hate when a new game HAS to go for the esports even when it doesnt have a stable playerbase . Thats a shit load of resources that could be used to improve the game and bring new content.

[@ChrisPhelior]

Remember some of the better ideas in heroes of the Storm being removed to make it "esport-ready"?

[@bassemb]

Firefall :( :( :( I loved that game SO much and I desperately wanted it to get better, but it only got worse and more confusing, and then it died... man I miss that game, so many good memories.

[@Detralon]

Meat is back on the Menu booyyys

[@Teekay.21]

I'm genuinely saddened that I never got to play this game online, it looked like such a good time.

[@NekoDisciple]

Man, it truly was a good time

[@LisssardManN]

it was so fun, even got some good friends out of it too

[@cactuz4813]

Based on this and B4Bs “swarm mode” it seems like PVP isn’t Turtle Rock’s forte

[@fallendeus]

ummm... L4D Versus mode begs to differ

[@josephgarfield3363]

@@fallendeus that turtle rock is not the same as the turtle rock that made Evolve and B4B.

[@overtale4516]

L4D and L4D2 are the only exceptions

@@overtale4516 I don’t think Turtle Rock developed L4D2

[@rickrolledbitch1941]

@@overtale4516 value made left 4 dead 2 not turtle rock buddy

[@mcgmgc]

Damn it... this was one of my favorite games. I was 300/0 with the monsters (mostly Goliath, he was a bit underrated). They really fucked this game. The devs started nerfing / overnerfing things, eventually hunters became super broken (such as Sunny and Torvald from the DLC) so there were no monsters to hunt because the hunters would destroy everything.Those who played during that time know exactly what I'm talking about. Obviously this doesn't affect top players as much but it affected everyone else. Being a monster isn't easy, you only have yourself to blame. Evolve was the only game that has EVER given me adrenaline rush (monster solo) The whole DLC thing sucked. I really and I mean really loved this game. There was just nothing like it. I swear every game that I like ends up dying..

[@RandomPerson-tz7wk]

This game is basically a reverse among us. A group of player is trying to kill you while you do stuff. Yeah, it's impossible to balance. They either had to choose making it fun for 4 players (hunters) or 1 player monster. And getting owed is not fun.

[@mcgmgc]

@@RandomPerson-tz7wk Problem is, if you stacked with friends, the hunters were still more powerful than the Monster. But after the nerfs they made it so your average monster player would get annihilated by pretty bad Hunters. Eventually they tried fixing that but it was too late. There were some changes like evolving faster to stage 3, things like that. Wrong changes anyway, you should be punished for evolving incorrectly in front of the enemy so it was clear they had no clue what to do with the balance of the game. They kept adding really and I mean really broken asf effortless Hunters that just made the game worse. It's similar to Rainbow Six Siege - if you look at the game in the past, it was far more grounded and realistic / believable / less power creep but everyone was strong. Now everything is nerfed and the new operators are not grounded to reality at all. It does ruin the game a bit for me personally and the playercount on Steam charts is proof that many aren't happy with such changes / additions. This is also how OW died (yes, it is absolutely dead at the higher ranks - anyone that plays in GM and above knows this) the quality of the matchmaking has been proof of that since S6 or so. Everything in OW got nerfed, they kept adding awful characters with terrible balancing decisions, such as Mercy (an effortless, 0 skill character) being S tier for ages in an FPS game. This is going to happen in Battlefield 2042 as well. Look at these completely idiotic operators they're adding - wallhacks on demand? wingsuits (aka free C4 kills on tanks with no way of seeing the wingsuit guy coming), instantly deployable shields with no animation / activation time (will ruin 1v1 situations, Irish wins free 1v1s every X seconds) stupid crap like this ruins games. They're going to open a massive can of worms in terms of balance and we all know how terrible DICE are at balancing.

[@goliathownz9236]

What nobody is talking about is destiny also came out around this time and this was a casualty

[@BucklingSwashes]

19:24 This is actually one of the big things that I think Valve and Turtle Rock did so well with in the Left 4 Dead games, whereas Turtle Rock on their own has struggled to achieve it with both Evolve and Back 4 Blood. Cooperation in L4D was generally required for success, certainly, but it was straightforward and occurred naturally as players learned the game and its mechanics. Visual clarity, helpful screen tips, memorable and distinct audio cues, and immediate, consistent in-game reactions to player input all helped to train players to work together rather than try to go it alone. All players could at any time be a gunner, a medic, a melee specialist, a spotter, or whatever they needed to be at the time, as the game gave them the tools to do so and didn't force anyone to gravitate to a specific role through stats or builds. In Evolve, the hunters are much more reliant on their teammates' unique abilities and equipment rather than everyone having access to the same things, meaning any single weak link can potentially result in a loss. Similarly, B4B's cleaners and the decks you create are almost always going to be geared toward specific playstyles. Trying to play medic when your deck leans toward ranged damage can actually make things worse as you use resources better allocated to a Doc player. Similarly, a Doc player can waste much more ammo trying to save a teammate from one of the mutated Ridden because she's not built for damage. (Those Ridden are generally much tankier than L4D's special Infected, and thus don't have that immediate, consistent reaction to being fired upon that made rescuing teammates in L4D so simple and satisfying.) A system intended to add more variety and allow for deeper teamwork actually ends up restricting players more in the moment, and while that's not an inherently bad thing, it does make training players to work together and rewarding them for doing so MUCH more difficult. Deep Rock Galactic does this much better than Turtle Rock's recent games have, despite having similar class and build variety. A big part of that is that the gameplay and classes are designed to be able to allow for success solo as well as with others, so everyone has the tools needed to traverse the environment, complete objectives, defeat enemies, and quickly help their mates if they get downed or grabbed. Huge differences in equipment and weaponry certainly allow for differences in the experience, but digging, collecting resources, fighting, and helping friends are all possible for anyone at any time, and there's no punishment for doing those things instead of waiting for someone else to do it instead.

[@SuperRitz44]

Completely agree, I believe DRG is the best co op experience available right now. Rock and stone!

[@tarael86]

The main difference is that 90% of the team that worked on L4D belonged to Valve, not TRS.

[@EskChan19]

One of the things I kinda hate about B4B is not even that you need to cooperate but that you need to do it in such weird ways, like pointing out ammo because ammo is divided by weapons now, which also immediately restricts you more, because two people carrying a gun with the same ammo means both will run out very fast. It's just very restrictive when the game basically forces you to play the way the game wants. And that's how it works in B4B. You basically have very defined roles that everyone has to play, and if you change that composition in any way, you're basically fucked.

[@the_real_Kurt_Yarish]

Took me until watching this video to realize the Evolve title logo is stylized the way it is in reference 4+1 playable characters and monster, with the second "v" stylized separately from the rest of the text to bring to mind the Roman numeral "V", five. It's a subtle nod to their previous games' stylized titles using a number that represents the playable characters as part of, or in place of, text. And I remember being hyped by the game's original trailer and marketing, so it's doubly sad it's taken me this long to notice.

[@MusicaX79]

Was a beta tester for all waves of testing for Evolve back in the day. The game was a TON of fun with the base monster and the base hunters, it was an even game of cat and mouse. The problem with the game even in beta was the Pay to Win Monsters. While the hunters that could be unlocked were mostly fair many of the monsters outside of the base monster were beyond broken. The tickets and boards for Turtle Rock were full of "X monster and do Y thing and Hunters can't prevent it." Example in beta and launch Kraken had an aoe lighting strike that could 3 shot hunters from a distance that was 1.5 times the distance of the capture bubble. So, Kraken, players would hit level 2 as fast as possible and then hunt the players down because you can't get close enough without dying to lock it down. Wraith released on day one of the launch and it had the capability to down half the party with combos at level 1 and would party wipe at level 2. The game was a TON of Fun the problem was Turtle Rock straight up had no idea how to balance the game outside of the base monster and various hunters. Causing day one launch to flop when everyone could pick up Kraken and Wraith for easy wins. Yes, the eventually balanced it out to make the monster require more work to combo but by then it had the stigma of Monster OP dodge if you can’t play it.

[@cheekibreeki6255]

This game was fun as fuck to play and I loved all the different characters and monsters. Remembering thinking “how is this not more popular”

[@nixmilt3040]

Who’s your favorite character? I was a Lazarus main

[@tiga8600]

@@nixmilt3040 laz annoyed the shit out of me mr. Boop ima gone then revive revive revive like where the fuck are you little man. My favourite was emmet since you didn't really need to aim with him and just focused on helping and the bug definitely the bug dude

[@tiga8600]

Poor realse and backlash from the community I stilll remember everyone ragging on the game about microtransactions while other games got way less gripe about that. And the unbalance of some perks in game where stupidly strong along with hunter combinations

[@nixmilt3040]

@@tiga8600 I’d play sunny if I was playing support and Maggie if I was playing trapper, bug man was my secondary medic

[@M00NQUITE]

@@nixmilt3040 i was a Caira Main !

[@3ds_fellgod-myhopewillneve617]

I think Evolve’s downfall can be summed up with this single legendary Angry Joe phrase: “I-Is that blue? I-Is that f**king BLUE?! This is f**king BLUE. You’re giving me a gun that’s painted BLUE, and you want to charge me two dollars. It’s not even good DLC! It’s not even good cosmetic skins! Look at this s**t they didn’t even put effort into it! WTF?!”

[@mcgmgc]

A classic

[@ROYBGP]

Is that BLUE?

[@richardgries4098]

@@chainsawplayin oh yes and the fucking BLUE?!?? power armor that fallout 76 has. What is it with cheap looking skins and blue

[@thedefault8109]

@@chainsawplayintrue but at least it's f2p

[@LordOfel]

Years later and we look at 300$ Valorant skins

[@ymblester5630]

When you brought up the IGN review, I thought were going to say "IGN gave it a high score, showing that the publisher had purchased banner ads on the site."

[@TheRogueWolf]

Can we consider that a "given" by this point?

[@WhiplashSL]

Seriously. I read the first paragraph of the review where it says, "It’s tactically deep, bursting with character" and went, "Tactical... bursting with chara- WHAT GAME WERE THEY PLAYING!?!? I want to play that game over this one!"

[@vforveranda4788]

I was one of those that refused to pay for a product where the monetization self was more agressive than the monster. Played and loved Evolve S2. What kinda killed that for me, personally, was the "new" copy/paste characters. It's unfortunite. All the 4v1's that Evolve inspired, are pretty much the same horror game with slight variations.

[@anthonyscanni6343]

Playing this game in its prime was amazing. Getting a group of friends together having a blast it was something else truly heartbreaking to see the downfall of this game

[@Brootall13]

I was going through a real rough time during the ending of and holiday season of 2014 into 2015; and when this game came out in Feb of that year it was an escape for me. Never thought about the stuff that was weighing me down when I would boot this up. Also Met some cool people while playing this. My record was over 80 wins and only 2 losses with Goliath. Thanks And RIP Evolve.

[@Morneri]

It really was a great game, such a shame that it failed, it had so much potential. I'll never forget it...

[@chuganoga1908]

The game was amazing it sucked seeing it go out like that

[@Chaosfly10]

This one hurt the most watching it slowly die. I really miss it a lot

[@viper6220]

It sucks knowing this game had so much potential

[@TokarevArtyom]

I would say, that evolution mode was actually most fun in a game and kept it afloat for long time. Also PVP component was trash due to absolutely no MMR to be present, making matches boring for monster (as very rarely they have good cometition) and extremely frustrating for players, that are not full premade team, as one weak link in team put everyone down. I argued at the time, that they should have focused on COOP part of game and it could be great sucess. We had much fun in COOP evolution mode. Second idiotic decision was to cut of said mode when they transitioned to f2p model. Cheaper graphics with STILL no MMR and cutting off only working mode so far was last nail in the coffin.

[@darkalpha50]

There was a major gameplay flaw, if you fought someone that knew how to play monster you basically guaranteed lost as they simply ran away until they where strong enough to kill you, spent most of my games running around in circles for 10 minutes just to lose, killed the game for me

[@r.k845]

Against a team of good hunters that would essentially mean instant death on stage 3. You shouldn’t have let the monster run away considering how easy they are to catch too. The actual issue was a lack of proper tutorials to get people up to speed. You and your team didn’t know how to play the game and were punished for it. Not exactly your fault really.

[@Jack_sosa_daniels]

It’s crazy I find your channel randomly, watched some videos, talked about evolve said why did they shut down the Servers and you. You’re that guy. Thanks

[@JimJamTheAdmin]

Finally, a game I was there for before, during, and after Launch. I even read all the lore stories posted on the forums by the writer for the game!

[@FerintoshFarmsPhotography]

A big part of the problem was it had no objectives really, like Dead by daylight works because of the Generators which forces sort of like a king of the hill style gameplay where you actually will see the enemy

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

forced engagements on the map yep

[@steeldragon5730]

technically they helped remedy this with evolve stage 2 PC experiment and there was also the whole, once stage 3 happens the monster can destroy the relay

[@BucknerSJ]

The objective for the Hunters is to hunt the Monster, tracking it cooperatively and forcing a 4v1 fight. The objective for the Monster is to play stealth, feed to evolve, and ambush the Hunters in 1v1 or 1v2 fights, then run. Once the Monster hits stage 3, a map objective becomes vulnerable, shifting the conflict to a timed area defense. Forcing engagements is the entire strategic gameplay of Evolve. If you think it's just an action shooter, you weren't playing half of the game.

[@Kaimax61]

@@BucknerSJ and good luck trying to get 3 other competent people to play as hunters. you can write a whole 1MB guide on how to play Evolve, but it won't help when playing hunter with randoms is not fun. People leaving lobbies when they don't get monster becomes a real problem.

[@BucknerSJ]

@@Kaimax61 It was certainly possible to get a good team occasionally, but honestly I probably remember those instances a little too fondly. The player population, especially of those willing to play Monster, really was too small. ​ @Trouble in large numbers Maybe my perspective is skewed because I watched a lot of the beta Twitch streams, but the high-level play for Monster was, as I said, to go for ambushes early to get the health debuffs on Hunters. This style of asymmetric multiplayer does, however, lead to very bad gameplay experiences in unbalanced games. An unskilled Monster will be caught and killed at stage 1 by even mediocre Hunters, or a team with a clueless Tracker can lead to 10 minutes of blind wandering followed by death. For my part, I fell off playing because the community had shrunk and the ratio of good games had plummeted, but I never got bored of the gameplay on either side, even though I did prefer Hunter. Really though, I just miss the guns. Turtle Rock, please, give me back Torvald's shoulder cannons in Back 4 Blood. I don't care how they fit in the canon. I just need them. Please?

[@kennydarmawan13]

Finally, an episode about Evolve. That's what we've been waiting for.

[@lizardjr.7826]

Yup

[@Destroyer2150]

I'm so glad this crashed and burned. It was so funny seeing GaMeS JoUrNaLisTs (more like marketing tools) giving the game 8-10 scores. And watching the aftermath

[@kennydarmawan13]

@@Destroyer2150 me too.

[@Hikikomory_Life]

Death of a Game: Evolve 4 years later SIKE!

[@AutomaticOps]

I am watching a lot of your videos since I just discovered the channel and I am seeing a trend that games releasing with a lack of content or a perceived lack of content struggle. Shows that first impressions really are everything.

[@ROYBGP]

Real talk. Phil Robb and Matt Colville are cool as shit. They even run dungeons and dragons on MCDM and release their own books and stuff. Phil really looks like a super chill, down to earth guy. Same with Matt. This was just sad.

[@rna151]

I always respected the title's ambition but I have to echo one of the reviews I saw pop up, it just never seemed designed all that well. Most of the games I played tended towards stomp one way or the other, if the hunters had the experience and cohesion they'd corner the monster in nothing flat, if the monster had the experience the hunters would spend ~10 minutes walking back and forth without sight of it until it hit level 3 and won the game. There just never seemed to be much back and forth.

[@bransonallen2925]

Ugh that was always the worst. Literally spending ten minutes walking around with nothing to do until the monster just killed you out of nowhere.

[@gamerkingdom1442]

You know what’s hurt the most for me in this game? IT WAS SUCH A GOOD IDEA!! This is basically a Monster Hunter game, but another player plays the monster rather than a A.I.!!! But, of course, MICROTRANSACTIONS!!!!! IT PERSONALLY KILLED EVERY DESIRE FOR ME TO PLAY THIS GAME…….. But I do remember the infamous Review from IGN, that gave it a 9/10!! I mean, SHILL MUCH!?

[@Largentina.]

Such a good idea that someone else already came up with. Giants Citizen Kabuto had this style of multiplayer over a decade before Devolve came out.

[@gamerkingdom1442]

@@Largentina. Ooooohhhh, Riiiight. I remember that game. Good point…..

[@cuddlecakes7153]

I also like how this was basically a more scary monster hunter. I've always wanted to play the monster in that series

[@thwomp1542]

I miss and will never stop missing this game. Was a ton of fun playing with friends. The game is beautiful even by today's standards, imo.

[@bearmcbear6080]

I miss the hell out of this game. I hope the concept resurfaces.

[@adowner7298]

This just triggers a wave of nostalgia. I remember being really interested in the morse code easter egg and was hoping to see the Host from the prototype build would eventually be added.

[@deadeyedesperado]

I've been waiting for you to cover Evolve ever since I started watching DOAG, and man did you deliver! One thing that I always found super stressful in Evolve was that before the Stage 2 update, the Trapper class was the only class capable of throwing up the Dome that allowed the Hunters to force a fight against the monster. At the time, when they put it up, it would center only on top of the Trapper. This meant that the Trapper could not only miss with the ability, but also trap the Hunters inside until they turned it off. In other words, the most powerful tool the Hunters had was in the hands of one player, which did not bode well for public lobbies. It really expected a lot out of four usually-random players on the Hunter side, and I remember it being a really hard sell to my friends to pick up. It's a shame to see it dead, I was really hoping that Stage 2 would bring it back.

[@Coeaxe]

I really enjoyed Evolve, I still remember learning how to play as the monster in the beta and it was such a unique experience, hiding in the bushes while the hunters were 10 feet away lmaoo

[@An_Average_Arsonist]

Good old Griffin and his inability to sniff you out hahaha. Was always my favorite part of the game, being a sneaky boy, leaving tracks going off in one direction, then hiding in a Bush.

[@tiga8600]

@@An_Average_Arsonist till maggy comes and is like I see you while your perfectly hidden in a Bush a big giant Bush but still a bush and have armageddon dropped down on you. I remember one time I hid on the edge of a cliff in a push and the whole team of hunters just jumped right over me and it was a nice rush

[@An_Average_Arsonist]

@@tiga8600 well duh lol. Why dont you think I said Griffin and his inability to sniff you out?

[@Miner49er201]

The character interactions and the characters themselves were very good as well.

[@spinningredchair8092]

Wraith was my favorite monster. I love his kidnapping ability, it's a shame this game died

[@bayfrontbandit]

Man Evolve to this day is still one of my favorite games ever. It had and still has tons of potential.

[@stevsomeguy07]

This one hit me hard. I dumped countless hours into Evolve. I loved it and saw the massive potential here. So many issues and problems however couldn’t be ignored. So sad they couldn’t make this idea work.

[@ButterPacket]

And somehow they still haven't learned from some of their past mistakes with Back 4 Blood. History seems to repeat itself...

[@thatcow86]

B4B is such a disappointing failure that it's unreal

[@ButterPacket]

@@thatcow86 There was a ridiculous amount of feedback given to the developers during Alpha and Beta testing, but they made absolutely little to no improvements. Almost a year of development since closed Alpha testing. that went absolutely nowhere. Which leads me to believe the rest of the game was not even finished at all during the Alpha testing. Their studio was more occupied in deleting or locking any feedback posts. What was the point of having a website dedicated to asking feedback if you aren't going to do anything with it.

[@ButterPacket]

Here is a list of feedback that was mostly consistent by the community who participated in Alpha/Beta testing. Remember there was a ton of it and the developers did little to nothing with them. - Broken AI director, nonstop spamming specials in a choke point on higher difficulties. - Difficulty spike from easy to normal then to hard was an erupt 90 degree incline. - Gun sound effects made guns lack punch. - Janky reload animations made guns have less personality and less polish to its design. - Some guns were obviously better than others. Which leads to unbalance and meta weapons picks... - No way to take off attachments on guns and put on another weapon. - Med cabinets were too expensive to use on higher difficulties with only 1 free use which leads to people ninja healing with them. Screwing over teammates. - NO Vote Kick on launch. Are you serious? - No PvP campaign. - Matchmaking was broken and barely useable. - No way to switch difficulties in the middle of act runs. Have to start all over at the beginning to change difficulty. - WAY TOO many checkpoints in each mission. There is like 6-8 checkpoints and each of them are like 10 minutes of gameplay. It creates a disconnection between the players and the world when you seen load screens every 10-15 minutes. - Bullet sponge Enemies and Specials. - AI director keeps throwing the same corruption cards against the team then proceeds stacks them too much. Which prevents players from counter playing with cards. Second half of an chapter of every Act will usually be the same all the time. - No memorable soundtracks in the game. Left 4 dead nailed this with a distinct tune that is present in all situation with variations. - No distinct sound or music cues for specials. no personality for any of the Special Infected. - Barely any of the crescendo set pieces had any real "wow" factor to them. Because each section of the chapter is TOO short. There isn't any kind of proper buildup. - Floaty melee combat makes it hard to register hits. Doesn't help that hit detection is unresponsive. - Janky fist melee animation makes for an awkward push mechanic which a weapon shove would have done better job conveying the feedback. - Characters weren't very likeable nor have good art design. They look too "perfect" in a zombie apocalypse. They look like they came from an Instagram photo shoot. Howard was the only one out of the group that many liked. Holly and others wouldn't shut the fuck up with the same repetitive dialogue nonstop. - A lot of cringey dialogue from Holly and Evangelo. Like it makes you want to puke... - Zombie hordes never or rarely came from behind during crescendo events. Always in front only making extremely easy to funnel hordes. - Zombie hordes are sometimes TOO small in certain bigger events and TOO huge in certain smaller events. Creating odd gaps in difficulty during runs. - Copper system doesn't seem to make sense within a real world sense. Who is leaving all this copper around? How is this the accepted currency all of a sudden. How come in safe houses people use this currency system to buy things when there is no NPC around to enforce this rule? It makes no sense. - Having a very firm stance against Modding. Wants to sell skins and season passes more. Just to name a few. I can go on forever here... Just know anything listed here might be fixed in future updates of the game. But this is about feedback points from Alpha all the way to Release that was mostly ignored by the developers by many testers.

[@HiroyaFujimiya]

The thing is.....they learned SOMETHING which prepared a lot of shills to defend the game now. There still a lot ppl on any discussion blindly defend the game, whatever the fact argument it discussed.

[@ButterPacket]

​@@HiroyaFujimiya Those kinds of people are the type who their entire existence, ego, or personality revolves around that specific "game." So criticizing the game means you are "insulting" them... One of the defense people have is that we should stop comparing the game to Left 4 Dead... But why not? L4D2 was genre defining and iconic in the zombie shooter genre. They non-stopped advertised it to be a spiritual successor to Left 4 Dead and saying some of the members are the original developers. And took the liberty of using a lot of the same formula as their predecessors. When in reality it was as simple as make a "Left 4 Dead 3." Some of their defenses say "Left 4 Dead 2 wasn't like their current legendary status at launch." True. But that game is like a decade old now, there is no excuse of "They didn't have the post-launch development time." YEAH THEY DID, IT'S CALLED LEFT 4 DEAD 2. Why is it so wrong to look at older games of the same genre and use them as benchmarks to improve on a sequel or a successor?

[@viceanterra3]

This game taught me that getting random players to cooperate to the extent that the weakest link WILL DEFINITELY lose you the game is a bad idea. That said evolve is still one of my favorite gaming experiences. My favorite roles were trapper and damage. Mostly because of the characters kits. Playing the with flame thrower and the granny with the murder mech was such a good time. RIP Evolve.

[@julianodobler2782]

I loved the worldbuilding of this game so much. The planets, its creatures (the NPCs) and the hunters felt pretty grounded for a scifi game, at least for me ofc. Its sad the game didnt succeded...

[@Campo_]

Just found your channel and I'm loving the detective theme: analyzing dead games like they're a murder mystery. Gonna binge your videos for the next couple days, and will make sure to keep an eye out for new videos!

[@mos5678]

I am going to start off before even watching the video, saying that monetization is not the worst thing the game did wrong. As to repeat a quote which has seen multiple spinoffs in multiple reviews and comment sections. "They made the ultimate sin of making jetpacks boring, Leaving you to run around for large portions of each map doing nothing" And that was my biggest issue as well. in a balanced game you rarely saw the monster, And your sole hope of taking it down early was hoping that the guy with the cage knew what he was doing as missing was a very real possibility. Even after the cage mechanics changed it didnt fix the stale gameplay and by then the game was already considered dead to begin with.

[@haruhirogrimgar6047]

My only memories of this game involved my friend playing Medic and f"cking sniping the monster at lvl 1 halfway across the map saying "Hey the monster is over this way" while the tracker is way behind him. I did not have a good time with this game. It would honestly be more fun as a singleplayer game where you exclusively play as the monster. Rushing around feeding on prey, growing slowly stronger, perhaps trying to escape AI monsters doing the same except hunting you. Up until you get to be top of the food chain and become the apex predator of the area. Like a much more hardcore creature stage Spore.

[@Carnidoom]

funny spore still more succes then rvolve too

[@VIN7ERwav]

nice video as always brother! keep it up! i can smell the million subs

[@Kallikukurinn]

Man, what a throwback. I remember sinking 50$ into the game. A year of my High School years went into playing this game. I actually had fun with it and had hopes of my friends also joining me in the game, which never happened. But there were ups to the game that I did like before they downgraded with Stage 2. The base game had a Single Player Campaign, while not that good, was still pretty entertaining and it was different from the samey Death Match games on different maps. You actually had different objectives other than to just kill the monster or for the monster to just kill the hunters. It was pretty cool. Another thing was the weather effects which play a part in the gameplay, I loved the aesthetic of rainy storm weather, it added to the feel. Then there was hunter dialogue at the start of a match and during a match which was a pretty nice bonus to the feel. They stripped the campaign, the voice interaction and the weather effects from Stage 2 and the game just became a soulless Death Match game, which killed all my interest in the game. Heck, I even made a cringy youtube video about it a few years ago. One of my favorite monsters to play was the Wraith, which is probably expceted given the high win ratios ^^". But I really just liked the fast playstyle of the monster and it's ability to sneak and lunge and pull hunters away from the group. Thanks for the video, it was a bittersweet throwback to my High School years :)

[@entothechesnautknight1762]

"Jim Quizition" That aside, I think that it's clear it really was the microtransactions that killed the game. I mean, full priced games still somewhat struggle nowadays to include even half the amount of microtransactions Evolve had, and you especially couldn't get away with that in a game where you didn't have everything unlocked at the start. Obviously the lack of single player hurt it, but it was coming out in an era where it was becoming the norm to always have an internet connection, and judging from the amount of people who still play games like Arc, payday 2, unturned, Day Z, and plenty of other games that are ether as old or older then evolve, it's clear that having that fun gameplay loop can keep a game playable and popular years down the line. Evolve, though it had problems, was never able to reach the critical mass needed to fit that threshold of "fans for life" thanks to the idea the game would bleed you dry, and that was it's downfall, moreso then any gameplay issues or changes.

[@entothechesnautknight1762]

@@Ralathar44 overwatch wasn't full priced.

[@ThatPearlKid]

This got me thinking about the whole 1 monster vs a team of humans type games and made me realize something. Almost all of them where brought to their last breath insanely fast. They all got like a year at most and then.... BOOM coffin. Dead by Daylight is the only one I think of still moving. Though if you've played DBD in recent times that's not doing great right now either, Sad.

[@daviddiaz5815]

dbd is not doing good

[@poffzihavenoidea531]

Dbd has basically just had its balance screwed over by now

[@win2teabag009]

DBD's downfall is coming

[@daviddiaz5815]

@@poffzihavenoidea531 problem is that the game is (at its core) unbalanced just for the fact that is 1v4 that's way harder to balance

[@MistarZtv]

dbd balance and actually gameplay might be boring and stale af. but the simple and smooth brainness of the gameplay loop, the predatory grind and regular content update especially by massively popular licensee intellectual properties has been keeping the player count really strong and consistent. I think they recently broke their all time player count of all time at like 100k players peak, thats more than evolve would get combined in several months. sad sad day. but idk bhvr seems hella bent on releasing broken content and more cosmetics plus getting into bed with nft schemes. along with a cheater epidemic. would be very interesting to see just how dbd will devolve in the next few years, as another wave of asymmetrical games are trying to enter the market and learn where their predecessors failed in being a viable alternative to dbd.

[@MistarZtv]

If Evolve had came out in our time, it definitely would have done faired a bit better than it originally did. there would still be backlash no doubt, but a lot of things would've been stomached way easier. - Specialized teambased coop games are a much more widely accepted nowadays from that weird every man for him self codsyle era of gaming. - multiplayer only games are some of the biggest games we have nowadays. - regular content drops and season passes, actually proved that it can be beneficial for a lot of games even paid full price ones, that keeps players coming back every few weeks and stablizes the population. when evolve came out, they dropped all the dlc at once that costed as much as the base game a few weeks from launch, which meant that for 12-16 months you had no new content to bring people back. - the DLC was what you pay is what you get, which is what many players nowaday expect. none of that randomized lootbox nonsense that we see people have turned against to. - crossplay would have benefited the game very well, as the community we've heard was actually pretty reasonable on the consoles and they had an easier time feeding matches than pc players. the biggest issue would've been being able to to figure out a gameplay loop that was healthy and easier for players starting out. which after the dlc shitstorm was the biggest factor as to why the game struggled with keeping players interested, because theyd go into 10 minute long queues where the matches just devolves into the monster running for 10 minutes and stomping them at stage three because they struggled with the actually hunting part, as the system was not very friendly for starting players. the coop element of the game also meant that people who stuck around long enough to work well together see just how brokenly strong the hunters can be when they can actually hunt the monster down and work togther. which causes a poblem of mid-higher level of gameplay to be absolutely dreadful for the monster, because they would feel like they were getting bullied by the hunters. which also dropped the players. stage 2 seems like they were really changing a lot of those things to where they became less of a problem. but i think by then the damage was already done, and it also didn't help that they ruined any goodwill the remaining players had in the free to play era of the game, when they jacked up prices and unlocks by like 2-3x times fold. that immediately tanked the players the next day after it was announced when they would change the prices and stuff.

[@Soulferno]

I'm late to this but I don't think so. In fact, if I may be so bold, I think it would've died a lot worse if it came out in today's gaming landscape. I mean, Back 4 Blood certainly isn't doing well these days, now is it? I think it's more of the fact that the game itself was fundamentally flawed and had the now common issue of microtransactions and season passes. It was one of the games during that era of gaming that led to many of the greedy and egregious practices we see now. The difference between then and now wouldn't have saved Evolve. If that were true then games like Anthem or Avengers would be alive and stable (latter isn't dead but I wouldn't call it "alive" either). I truthfully believe both Evolve and Back 4 Blood suffered from both their developers and publishers and as a result have led to what they are now or for one of them, what it'll become. I remember back when my friend bought into the hype of Evolve and bought it on launch. He dropped it quickly after a month like most people. I played the beta for Back 4 Blood with my girlfriend and quickly found that the game felt lacking in something. I played Left 4 Dead 2 quite a bit with a friend but this game just rubbed me the wrong way so I held off. Glad I did since it's slowly suffering the same fate as Evolve. It's such a strange phenomenon to witness. Seeing all these games try to be what either their predecessors or inspirations were a decade back yet they don't really understand what made them good to begin with

[@Soulferno]

@@Ralathar44 Not really given the fact that because of how the internet has grown in the last decade, games will live or die by monetization practices in both for and against them. It became more and more normalized because of the fact that no one was connected enough about the games they play to know if they should care. Now it's relatively just down to the choice of whether or not they want to care either due to apathy, blind fanboyism or hate. The fact that games have died or are basically walking corpses within the last 3 years should be proof that more than enough people are now informed enough to either send a game to it's grave or wrongfully put it up on a golden pedestal. When it's the latter you can put fault on both parties for being awful in terms of greed and complacency. And as far as I can tell, Back 4 Blood was marketed and expected to be much bigger than it is yet I see it at half price now digitally and physically after such a short amount of time since launch. You would think the video we're on right now would be enough to tell you that they certainly aren't doing "well". Certainly not what they were hoping for unless you're definition of "well" is different but I suppose that's understandable. As far as I'm concerned though, the game has been falling off and will more than likely continue to do so once the inevitable "next big multiplayer game" comes out. Which is a shame since I was kinda hoping the game would pop off but ever since the beta I just remember not giving with what the game was offering. Certainly nowhere near what it was when I played L4D2 with friends

[@Soulferno]

@@Ralathar44 Being a partial update hardly means it accurately represents the bigger picture. Not that I'd expect a whole historia on games from the last decade but using 76 as an example when things like Anthem and Avengers area thing kinda defeats the point I get you were making. I'm not even denying that people are stupid enough to not buy trash because they very much are. Some are too stupid to understand that the people behind their failing game won't take care of it after a certain point for even basic bug fixes like Battlefront 2 for instance. I mean, most of Bethesda's games are hardly considered well put together yet people still eat up Todd's words like gospel. But it doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of others not stupid enough to let these people continue to take advantage of them. We're even seeing it in real time with the new Battlefield's numbers falling off and that game was after it's previous entry which also fell off and was abandoned by the people behind it due to low numbers and EA being EA. So I'm not denying anything. I'm just acknowledging actual reality and that reality is exactly what I said before: games today will live or die by their monetization systems. Perhaps I wasn't being clear with my word choice enough so I'll say it a different way: game's today and their longevity and success are entirely determined by how much it's audience cares that their game is screwing them over both in price and experience. It's really just a simple matter of whether or not anyone cares to get upset enough about the industry and what it's been doing to actually do something about it and clearly, there are many cases were people have and have not done something. I also wasn't saying B4B and L4D2 are directly competing with each other because in truth their isn't competition anyways. I was just pointing out the fact that, sale or not, the numbers for both show a very interesting scenario beyond a steam sale. I mean, you can't just discount the idea that people may have also chosen to pick up L4D2 not just because of the sale but also because there's quite literally another game that was meant to be it's spiritual successor that some people are actively saying isn't as good as as the original games so that's probably a factor in it's number boost too( tho the sale does help). I'm not even saying B4B is a bad game because I'm sure we both know what truly bad games look like. I think it's just a matter of people who played L4D recognizing things missing from it's supposed successor and players who haven't played those games at all more than likely won't stick around for long once something new comes around

[@royalloki4792]

This was arguably the first game where I decided to stop pre ordering games. Evolved was probably the most hyped I’ve been for a game before. And it was fun for the first 3 days and then just done.

[@Sameeer_Saker]

Loved the video! I also really appreciate that you took the time to clarify that even with it's problems, Evolve had good new ideas that were better implemented in other games. I feel sometimes KZbin essays reinforce that mentality that if a game wasn't great then it's because their ideas were bad and could never be good, witch only makes developters and players to avoid games that take risks and try something different.

[@iAmPimmiCue]

"It's a husk of what it used to be" It was always a Husk

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

fair

[@sivel7493]

at full price yes, but when it was free to play, hell was it a treat...I mean, if DBD could get so bloody popular, I can't see why Evolve wouldn't get that far if it had a better start...

[@chuganoga1908]

It was a good game dude wether it was worth full price is up to the players in all honesty but to say it’s a husk is pretty off

[@iAmPimmiCue]

@@chuganoga1908 I played a match and it was nothing special

[@chuganoga1908]

@@iAmPimmiCue I hear you but maybe it wasn’t for you in the sense that mobas wouldn’t be for everyone who likes RPGs

[@scalpingsnake]

Next DoaG is Hyperscape. Makes sense, I remember that game actually had good first impressions even for a BR but then a few months later I realised I had forgot about it... so had everyone else because it was dead. Long story short they ruined the game with patches that made no sense.

[@WaaveLvl0]

As someone who put in an absurd amount of hours from the first technical test to the end of season 1 this one's going to hurt the most. Hyperscape is probably the biggest waste of potential I've ever experienced. It went from being a 99-man Quake-like deathmatch to every other half-baked battle royale REAL quick and I'm excited to learn why because I could never quite articulate it

[@scalpingsnake]

@@WaaveLvl0 I don't understand the fascination with BR specifically. Sure it did well as a genre leading up to Fortnite where it because like the most profitable genre but, maybe this is a hot take, I don't think it was the because it was BR. Fortnite's appeal to younger audiences (but not just them) and general theme along with it being free to play too were factors. We have games like Among us and Fall guys which blow up in similar ways that aren't BR (Although nowhere near as big as fortnite I admit). It's just shame companies copy over innovated most the time

[@leifkruse3726]

My Heart is crying. Nostalgia pulses through my veins. Lets see how this game died :o

[@sketchy14]

1:52 "Let's waste no more time" *Immediately starts a 5 sec countdown*

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

A transition done in an artistic manner is wasting time? Why do you even watch my videos if you see it that way 😂?

[@sketchy14]

@@nerdSlayerstudioss just thought it was funny, no crit 😂

[@amexicancelt8002]

I was a Kraken main, I would watch the weekly "Dev vs" match. One of the reasons the players were quiting, on the monster end, was the HEAVY nerfing they did to the monsters. They nerfed the monsters based on the matches they themselves did. When the monster dev was in the top 50 in the world, and the hunters were top 400.

[@asecondcycle]

it’s so crazy to see a decent idea executed so poorly. i remember playing the beta and hating it. it’s especially crazy considering how popular a certain asymmetric game called dbd is. look forward to watching and thank you for your work

[@MrLolguy93]

The hype for this game was insane. Talk about a total letdown

[@mikearsen4580]

Like no man sky

[@casual1118]

@@TheBigGSN5 can't deny it runs like shit on every other platform.

[@sivel7493]

@@TheBigGSN5 Cyberpunk is...decent, but did it meet the expectations it set out? No man. But I guess unless you didn't buy into all the marketing it was putting out, you're gonna have fun but man, so much promised stuff, aren't in the game.

[@ulqinaku8471]

@@TheBigGSN5 awesome? That game is most boring and trashy game I ever played.

[@-Cyuu-]

I'll be honest it was pretty fun and I thought the classes were interesting and their roles were all different and useful in their own way, monster game was very well made, it looked ahead of its time and I just thought in general it was good. People were unnecessarily harsh on it blinded by hype. Definitely was better than back 4 blood now lol

[@philippn.743]

i'll allways have a place in my heart for Evolve. it was just fun running around the map hunting a Monster with 3 friends. we didn't played it really long though, maybe 1-2 months.

[@Irochi]

7:23 and in 8:10 I love how narration and lips movement are so well synchronized here, that it looks like the guy in confessing lol

[@pohateos9394]

I remember who terrible the balance was... if your trapper picked Griffin then you were absolutely fucked... he tracks footprints which you can hide by crouching from the start. If the trapper picked Maggie then they would find you very VERY fast with her dog... I spent one match following a group who picked Griffin because he literally couldnt see my foot prints. They never saw me until I fully evolved which anyone who has played the game knows if you get to that point receiving ZERO damage the Hunters would never be able to beat you....

[@TheMaddestofLads]

I remember loving this game when I first played it. It felt so fresh and interesting. However, that began to waver when I realized how easy it was for one teammate to throw off the balance of the entire team. If one player wondered off and didn't communicate, it could easily lead to the entire match being forfeit, even if the rest of the team was on point. On the flipside, I didn't like playing as the monster that much, as there were player teams who could find and kill you within the first 5 minutes, with very little chance of recovery. Match making was horribly unbalanced as new player were chucked in with veterans all the time.

[@Wolfun1t]

Matchmaking was so rough. People always talk about how the monster was unbalanced (I guess in the free-to-play update they made the monster stronger), but after the population started to die down, I always got wrecked by pre-made hunter teams. The matchmaking system constantly forced me to be the monster even when I had it picked as my lowest priority, and then I'd get slammed by a veteran hunter team who knew where every single feeding spot, shortcut, and best places to fight were on the map. It was rather frustrating. I don't like the way they solved the "problem" in the free-to-play update though... by just making the monster have a similar strength at all stages of evolution, which I think really killed the dynamic of the game

[@eccentricdownfall321]

I wished Evolve had a single player campaign/storymode like documentary of the life of the monster, giving insight on the other flora and fauna. for hunters short story/flaskback mission that fleshes out the character, which fleshes out history of humans impact on the planet.

[@Kaimariification]

Having a single player setup could have been a great addition, especially if there was more to the endings from doing them. Instead you either got the hunter win end or the monsters win end and both lacked feeling. Single player would have been great if they balanced the A.I. Last I remember playing, if you went hunter, the A.I. was iffy on how to take on a monster. Play as the monster though and the A.I. would beeline for you no matter where you were or how sneaky you were as well. I lost count of how many times the tracker domed me when there was no way for them to know where I was if they were human.

[@daddysempaichan]

I've been thinking about this, ever since you reminded me of this game, and I think the biggest flaw of the game is it's gameplay, and how it doesn't encourage conflict. You have this 4v1 Team Deathmatch, and the 1 player, the Monster, isn't ever encouraged to fight at all until like, 20 minutes into the game. And the 4 players, the Hunters, while encouraged to fight the Monster, is discourage from ever splitting up due to the local wildlife able to pin you down, which, while fitting, means the Hunters are just 4 players ducted taped together. And the lack of diverse abilities(utilities) that isn't geared towards fighting means the Trapper doing all the legwork of tracking down the monster while the other 3 sits around and do nothing, waiting for the fight to start. It also meant that if one of the Hunters were bad at the game, their whole team suffers. Basically the both the Monster and Hunters have the main objective being kill each other, but only the Monster have secondary objectives, being to Evolve, while the Hunters don't, and are left with running until they catch the Monster, which leads to lots of downtime with nothing to do other than to press the W key. And there's a lot of things I would like to say but it kind of leads to or around the same points that I've talked about, that the game doesn't want/allow the players to engage each other, and doesn't have any means to force them together. That's all I have to say for now. Maybe I'll come back later and edit this comment or write down more of my thoughts, but anyways, have a good day.

[@gabrielst527]

I don't agree, to some extent the biggest roles were the monster and also the trapper (since that even if you had a bad team, if you knew how to track the monster you could carry them easily) on high high levels the medic was the most important one. Also don't think hunters don't have anything to do, most hunters at level 3 monster would bunker down on the core and actually were a threat to the monster.

[@kaptinskorge]

This was true for people that, to be frank, didn't really know what they were doing. It made getting into the game difficult. But splitting up is the intended counter to monsters running away all the time, and doing so effectively was basically the difference between bad players and decent players.

[@SnowyTasha]

Every single time I think of this game I think about how this dude I knew on Discord at the time it released was so excited about the game, proudly showed me his day one purchase and talked about it and how awesome it was for a few days after, then proceeded to never mention it again after a week.