Debate: Is Jesus (Isa) a HOAX? David Skrbina v. Peter Williamson at Wayne State University

[@rockitsauce6164]

David Skrbina, thank you sir.

[@gailb2437]

It's a heck of a lot easier to wrap my head around the hoax than it is to wrap my head around myths and miracles.

[@connor1414]

And that sin is the reason your dog got hit by a car

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

​@connor1414 Typical Christian coward. Waits for something bad to happen to a non believer and pounces. Yahweh is fake. Deal with it.

[@logia7]

Circular reasoning, assuming conclusion, bias, skepticism, random conclusion about an entire new story with no (barely any) evidence, etc. Makes sense why you would do that. Weigh the theories, don't assume this wack conclusion. Not well founded at all.

[@logia7]

Actually, I could go on forever, misconception of scripture, misinterpretation, cutting off verses, lack of context, fake or lies about history, historical dates to his advantage (especially how when rome became Christian, why did he leave that out?), making Paul a liar and all the apostles.

[@mangodblackgenesis]

I wanted to watch this but soon as this dude said Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were actual authors

[@tarvisponsdebeaumont794]

Both of the authors have no idea about what they should be talking about. How they can be taken seriously is the measure of the appalling level of the discussion among supposed "experts".

[@walterdaems57]

Nah, you only wanted to watch this to reinforce your delusion

[@simonthompson2764]

Yep that puts him at odds immediately against mainstream historians.

[@brandono7003]

The dude is the world's foremost textural critic who who speaks over 50 languages.

[@mattr.1887]

Travis, I agree. I'm sympathetic to the hoax theory but this really deserves better answers.

[@martinan22]

I think the strongest point here is that nothing of the Gospels exist in Paul's letters. Suggesting they are concocted after Paul's letters.

[@goyonman9655]

Paul quotes from the gospels

[@VaughnesN]

@@goyonman9655 Scholars consider it the other way around.

[@zamiel3]

@@goyonman9655 7 months...and you still can't give an example. Shocker.

[@Augfordpdoggie]

@@goyonman9655 he couldnt have. Pauls letters were written long before the gospels

[@goyonman9655]

@@Augfordpdoggie How long

[@guym1234]

the evidence for harry potter casting spells is startling.....everyone at hogwarts saw it.

[@gavinjames1145]

Not only were there witnesses, but seven authentic books have been written about Harry Potter's magical exploits, too. So, it MUST be true!

[@mattr.1887]

Plus we have millions of copies of Harry Potter. All without error.

[@realLsf]

I’d love to hear the Christian guy’s explanation of all the other religions. Either they’re really true or they were contrived, but his can’t be. The mental gymnastics 😂

[@vaughanstarr3725]

Okay, about 33:00 in so far and what I see is that Williamson deliberately tries to downplay the fact that the majority of scholars put the age of the Gospels significantly after that of Christ's life, using the words "some" scholars. Only when called out by Skrbina on this does he acknowledge that in fact it is not some, but the majority. So right from the outset in his rebuttal there is an attempt at deception. If you are so certain in your position why not just state the facts baldly? Why lie? This deliberate attempt to mislead sours the follow on rebuttal that when you are dealing with such historical figures there is a well documented phenomenon of records which have survived to reach our hands dating only well after the actual person had died. Now, it is true that much can be lost to time. It is only by chance for instance that the writings of Marcus Aurelius survived. Could it be that earlier writings were lost? Of course. But could it be also that other, less noble acts took place? Will watch the rest. But this obvious lie from the outset betrays a desperation that has me on guard for further deceptive acts. Okay, nearing the end. Christianity does sustain itself through indoctrination which used to occur as part of a cultural identity. Now with that identity having become deracinated and fragmented in the West church attendance and Christianity in the U.S. has plummeted by 12 percentage points in the last 10 years. Come back in another 10 years with the death of an aging population and demography changes and what will it be? The claim from Williamson then that some come to the faith later in life is ridiculously desperate. The number would be minuscule. Just. Be. Honest. That shouldn't be hard for a man claiming to argue for a Christian God. Skrbina's point that without indoctrination Christianity would not exist to any meaningful degree is correct. As are his points that it is easily possible to see how a Christian myth could have been promulgated as a means to obtain power. However, how do people learn? We are creatures of story. And in no man's heart can it be said that every story is true. Even if the evidence Skrbina talks of existed, people would still be driven by story. Indeed everyday we reject out of hand that which is factually true if it doesn't fit our narrative need. For a man whose whole argument then rests on motivation, this is a massive blind spot as to what actually drives people. Williamson misses all of this and weakens his argument by lying about what is factually true on issues already mentioned. But he does give solid rationale as to why there are notable timeline gaps. So, pick your story.

[@nobodynowhere7163]

The earliest source of Tiberius Caesar is the Roman Historian Velleius Paterculus who not only lived during Augustus and Tiberius' time, but Tiberius himself was his Patron. True not much writing survives from Ancient Times, but what survives is quite a lot!

[@freeassange4989]

Wow, respect to those two cool guys. Here in Germany a dialogue between a theologian and an atheist would be full of anger on the theologians side (I´ve watched one some time ago), whereas these two enjoy the debate.

[@goyonman9655]

In my experience, it's usually the atheists full of anger and contempt

[@JONNYFJ1969]

In my opinion this shows what it means to be truly educated, in that you can have a debate without anger and shouting your point is correct. Whether you are a believer or an atheist, we should be able to debate topics without demeaning the others. I think the world would be a better place if we could all do this to some degree. I enjoy deep thinking, and personally love questioning everything. So often we just believe what others tell use, without doing our own research.

[@LightsPopcornAction]

@@goyonman9655 I agree David seemed frustrated. The topic is a very hard one to debate and answer. Do we except the authors of the Bible on the historical evidance that Jesus existed but than dismiss their miraculous claims of him. If these authors were lying wouldn't people refute them. If the claims are true they go against our scientific understanding. Can we even conclude one way another based solely on evidence we have? Is there too many unanswered questions to make a decision?

[@goyonman9655]

@@LightsPopcornAction Miracles don't go against our scientific understanding. Scientists literally study non-miracles.

[@rookmaster7502]

@@LightsPopcornAction As the Gospels were written 40 or more after the event, there likely wouldn't have been all that many actual eye witnesses left alive to refute the stories and miracles described within those works - assuming they somehow gained access to a copy of the manuscript before the end of their lives. Keep in mind, there would have been only a very limited number of Gospel copies as printing presses and book mass distribution did not yet exist.

[@mzrcnn]

"Racial Prejudice against Jews", "slander", and "fake news" as said by Peter Williamson is really a 'fantastic' but very pseudo-scientific argument to kill and silence each and every opposing voice against a political dogma. As I see it, we cannot "prove" either theory, it's all about believing or not believing, but Mr. Skrbina seems to have clearly won this debate.

[@debbieolson5348]

Fake news is why our country is so divided right now. Propaganda is very powerful. They were used heavily in every period of history. I do think Dr. Williamson is very naive. I bet the Catholic secret archive library would blow his mind. I came away wondering why he would call Jesus GOD several times in the end. Jesus is not God. He was human with a very expanded consciousness. Anything else is unprovable physically.

[@misscameroon8062]

well,if nothing else works throwing around a slanderous imputations might just do the job;distract from the point and , in wooly heads ,will install an immovable obstacle to understanding ,plus, it will sufficiently poison hearts and minds ;that how the wholly "unholy business of this judeo-chrostian sect started anyway.

[@stultusvenator3233]

Some people are very attached to the Jesus Business and after all you can't inform or convince someone who's paycheck depends on him not understanding. If god or jesus were real, there would be no need for apologists.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Facts

[@montymartell2081]

Oldest trick in the book if you tell a lie long enough some people start to believe it 😂😂🤣 how come the only people that know about Jesus or in the Bible and nowhere else

[@kyleberlin6990]

how do you know about Muhammed or Buddha? have you read those religious works? what a stupid comment.

[@willdwyer6782]

The only book that talks about him starts with a talking snake and ends with a four-headed beast. I'd say he's fiction.

[@taylorpauljones]

The only book. Lol

[@lightdestiny7]

😂

[@vincentrichards8276]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXbUhIlmqd1rebM

[@markeadiesahd752]

Peter Williamson’s livelihood depends entirely on the views he expresses. He can not afford to change now. .

[@melindad180]

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” - Upton Sinclair

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

​@@melindad180Great quote

[@rockitsauce6164]

"he walked on water"....what kinda debate is this ?

[@MaverickTRIIBE]

True messiah Ben David is yet to arrive in Jerusalem. Jesus failed miserably 2000yrs ago to qualify as messiah of Israel. Because he couldn't bring exiled Jews back to Israel and build the third temple and REBUILD Jerusalem and bring world peace .jesus 2nd coming has been fantasy of lunatics.

[@zamiel3]

@@MaverickTRIIBE Cool story. Now prove Moses, as described in the Tanakh, actually existed.

[@brandono7003]

@@MaverickTRIIBE you've missed the entire purpose.of Jesus.

[@noimnotnice]

@@brandono7003 He actually got it right.

[@alanndrake2619]

@@noimnotnice not beyond the status of CLAIM

[@avajoyporter9064]

This was the most enlightening, and exciting debate I have ever witnessed. This was fantastic and I totally loved how knowledgeable the two speakers are, as well as their ability to defend their beliefs. I walked away with a renewed interest in learning as much as I can on this subject and appreciate such a good debate. I noticed that this was recorded 4 years ago, well I am just finding it on you tube today in 2023 so for me I am excited about it. I will look into finding more information from your guest and I thank you for putting this on. I enjoyed the debate and hope you have these guy together again. Thanks

[@JacquesDesjardins-y4z]

1:25:21 A dude that believes in miracles and an afterlife thinks the Jesus hoax hypothesis is "highly improbable"...

[@sayakenshin]

HAHAHA

[@bigjon1359]

So sad this mystical book is and was read literally. When reading that way it does have too many inconsistencies and has little real meaning. useless debate. let's debate Humpty dumpty... there is also a deeper meaning there too but most have forgotten it and now it is just a silly story but there is a powerful truth in it.

[@juliusevolvere6835]

I hear what you’re saying and agree that lessons are learned best through story but Humpty Dumpty didn’t kill gentiles for not believing in him and inflict his morality on to the world. Let’s compare apples to apples.

[@jacobfranklin7100]

@@juliusevolvere6835 haha facts

[@theitineranthistorian2024]

Apologetics is a lost cause. The Hebrew Bible and New testament is all apologetics. People were writing in Egypt, Mesopotamia and Persia 1 millennia earlier. Judah and Israel are definitely in that neighborhood, in those societies.. The Greeks/Romans have science. Propaganda is everywhere.

[@charliejackson5492]

Cana'anites wrote too. And even pre-islamic to before Judaism with Arabia too had writing texts as well they would not have missed such a guy. Also, considering the fact we look at Josephus they were Messiah like miracle workers doing all over the place after during and before Mr Jesus was said to be around. No one would have missed this. I mean the very text of the Christian Bible are claiming that you could see this all over the place but there's even problems with that because the text of the Christian Bible just like the Hebrew Bible is very bad historiography and his later text as well as geography and political background surroundings of the area at the time or after. Let alone before. The betrayal of Judea Palestina is just simply inaccurate when it comes to the Christian Bible the best you can do of course usually is the second and first century Roman writers who write about the time when they said Mr Jesus was living and Jesus does not match up with it like he DOESN'T match the Hebrew Bible the standard for Jesus didn't know he is a messiah or not cuz if he can't make it he's exposed if he could then he did but he doesn't make it.

[@charliejackson5492]

Christian propaganda regular Greco-Roman religion propaganda is way wayyy spiritual and real unlike the unholy christian bible or Hebrew Bible even.

[@gusgrizzel8397]

The theist is so naive. He won't even entertain the idea of any agendas or controls exerted by those promoting religion and other cults.

[@goyonman9655]

How do you know he doesn't "entertain" them What if he "entertains" them, but rejects them

[@gusgrizzel8397]

@@goyonman9655 It's naive to just believe something because someone wrote it down or said it.

[@goyonman9655]

@@gusgrizzel8397 Like textbooks and newspapers

[@gusgrizzel8397]

@@goyonman9655 Do you believe everything in textbooks and newspapers?

[@goyonman9655]

@@gusgrizzel8397 Unless I have a defeater, my default assumption is, it's likely true

[@dougmaclennan8654]

Nice to see rigorous, civil debate. We don't have enough rigorous, civil debate today. Blame the MSM for this.

[@dougmaclennan8654]

@jon hamm Tucker Carlson used to have regular adversarial debate but he stopped overnight. It was so strange. Debate leads to understanding. You learn where you are objectively wrong and allows you to point out the same to your opponent. The dialogue then moves forward. I honestly think that the lack of debate is at the heart of our problems.

[@logia7]

rigorous my butt, this is simple minded foolery.

[@jonnyboat2]

Anybody wondering whether God is our creator and Father as well as whether Jesus is our savior and redeemer and the Holy Spirit our counselor and witness to the saving grace of Jesus, don't worry, you'll find out 100% for sure.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Tough talk from a little man.

[@mattr.1887]

I'm happy for this God to reveal himself plainly. Funny how he's never allowed to do that.

[@olarrist4273]

I’ll have to disagree with the notion that it’s the job of science to explain miracles.

[@Religion-Is-Fiction]

No, it is science's job to explain miracles because they're unexplained, until further investigation reveals why it really happened. That's what science is for. To find out. Through science, reality always shows us that it's never "God." #ReligionIsFiction

[@Bugsy0333]

@@Religion-Is-Fiction It can investigate a miracle, and in some cases, find natural explanations for things that people might have thought had no natural explanation. But science is not in a position to be able to decide whether an extraordinary act of God happened.

[@Religion-Is-Fiction]

@@Bugsy0333 Science is already in that position, by default alone. There is no such thing as an "extraordinary act of God" because God is a fictional character, like the tooth fairy. #ReligionIsFiction #Wicca

[@Bugsy0333]

@@Religion-Is-Fiction You are right !

[@Religion-Is-Fiction]

@@Bugsy0333 Oh my galaxies, I'm assuming you're a Christian, who's finally making sense. I'm an American wiccan, a witch, and I know a couple of different American women who are Buddhists. I can just sense spiritual things from time to time, usually through some form of catalyst, that most people can't, don't, or refuse to pick up on. We're just ordinary people who are more tuned in with Mother Nature, and what's actually real. The spirit world, like Death and the human soul, are real. Religion is not real. God is fictional. Big, enormous difference. I am an atheist. I've actually seen the entity known as "Death," and it's very beautiful, for example. Me and the Buddhist women are all on the same wavelength, whereas Christians automatically assume I'm "evil." No, I'm not violent and I don't cause trouble. We all just have to keep the real spirits like Death and the human soul separate from the fictional characters like God and Satan. #ReligionIsFiction #Wicca

[@george5120]

Only a gullible person would believe somebody who was dead for three days could come back to life.

[@charliejackson5492]

And it wasn't even 3 days it was 2 days.

[@MusikSarawak-zu3ic]

The bible has lost Jesus's lost years at the age of 12-29. Can anyone tell his whereabouts during his lost years?

[@gavinjames1145]

Have you read _The Infancy Gospel of Thomas_ ? The Bible didn't lose anything about Jesus's childhood, rather noone bothered to invent it before the middle of the 2nd Century.

[@StefanOJacare]

Skrbina is the G.O.A.T.

[@kevinwu8417]

Fax

[@brandono7003]

Cooked goat

[@jrex3575]

lol... he was bested by Williamson in this debate

[@BullwhipBobbyLove]

​@@jrex3575If that's their greatest argument, they don't have an argument. They have an accusation without evidence.

[@martinpappaterra1738]

Neither 1 of these guys know what they're talking about. They both seem to think the gospels were written by Jesus' apostles. Jesus' apostles were fishermen from Galilee. It's highly unlikely these men were educated. They spoke Aramaic, not Greek. The synoptic gospel writers were educated Greek speakers.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

I doubt Skrbina thinks that

[@danletras]

"Eyewitnesses?" The evangelists? Please.

[@mattr.1887]

41:04 Yeah, but as far as I know, Tacitus never claimed miracles. When someone is writing about not only supernatural events BUT ALSO claiming to have a message from God, we owe it to ourselves and indeed even to God (if you believe in God) to examine it with the utmost scrutiny. If it's of God, then it should easily withstand any degree of genuine human questioning.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Nope. Tacitus never mentions miracles whatsoever and kinda mentions him on an offhand remark. Remember Tacitus wrote Annals in 116 AD, a whopping 85+ years after Christ's supposed crucifixion.

[@MitchellRose-gi2ln]

Some people want the truth, and others are more comfortable with religious delusion.

[@Justin-kn6dp]

Actually, it's the other way around for sure.

[@thetruthhurts6652]

If the Romans said Christianity was a problem after 70 years of Jesus’s death that means the Christian movement was a already a problem. Movements dont just happen over night. I can totally see the seeds of Christianity being planted when Jesus lived, being documented in the decades to follow and finally grow to being the official religion of Rome.

[@misscameroon8062]

if,if,if;if you read more history of these times you`d know that christians weren`t really on the Roman radar,the jews were and their christian sect....

[@omarmirza9957]

I have not watched it yet. But why is the Quranic name for Jesus being used here?

[@theseustoo]

Masters' degree in theological studies = Masters' degree in fairy-tales!

[@martinan22]

What did the Romans write about other rabble rousers in the region that did not amount to much during their life time? Like "the egyptian" a few decades later. This could work as a point of comparison about how much Romans and Greeks would write of Jewish affairs.

[@secularfoundingperiodhistory]

Your whole problem here is the contrast of the point that Christianity was not established as a 401k religion, it was not a religion being established or established on a long-term basis, originally it was imminent that Jesus was coming back in that generation any day any day any day yet now Christianity has turned into a religion to retire by and a religion to die by because you're never going to see Jesus any other way than by being dead first so the whole argument of Peter telling us about all the wonderful things of his God what is God's about and wants us to be a family know there was no family values established in a refill Christianity it was more don't have a family from Guess Who Paul okay so there was no family values established in 1st Century Christianity and it was not a religion to retire by in the beginning it's a total fraud it's a hoax and everything that Peter is telling you to read about Paul let me tell you Paul as a professional liar and David knows that

[@simonthompson2764]

Useless to argue against someone who is not an independent scholar but biased by his commitment to a employment code of beliefs.

[@manueloliveira8062]

The savior HAD to write his own texts of salvation, as simple as that...!! Writings without riddles & hidden meanings & ambiguous prophecies that can be interpreted in 100 different ways. ...The only begotten son could not dissappear for 18 years & offer humanity a mere 3 years of recorded ministry, he should have lived to a ripe old age & saved the world before flying away into the sky & allowing many more centuries of suffering & religious (especially Christian) confusion. That's all the arguments we need...!! Finito Goodnite

[@mattr.1887]

Agreed. For a literal message from God, there should be no room whatsoever for doubt or debate.

[@gr122]

agree, especially in those days talking to a bunch of illiterates, including the fishermen, that only knew how to fish, this Jesus was pretty complicated. Why was he not simple and clear of what he wanted from humans instead of speaking in parables that even today we don't understand.

[@MilesfromNowhere21]

Typical ending, theist just starts preaching. I like the Hoax theory. I think you could include all religions in Hoax theory. Much better than the whole Son Of God nonsense!!!

[@citoante]

This “hoax” theory is the same as all other hoax theories. Nasa hoax, moon hoax,etc. This guy is full of it. His use of Paul’s verses is so false and basically a lie.

[@michaelpacker678]

Too obvious that all religions are of human construct ... with none agreeing with the other ... and no real evidence of any disembodied celestial dictator - ever!

[@connor1414]

We never went to the moon, read randy walsh

[@logia7]

One thing to point out that Peter misses, is that Paul did not write these messages by himself! So, David is assuming also (which he himself forgets to point out) that Paul wrote the messages, forged them, lied about them, faked them, all by himself. Which is not the case! David is actually assuming Paul had a big group, Timothy, Silvanus, so many others that helped him write these, and lied together. Highly improbable. I would like to hear his response because I already know, David will bring a harsh, skeptical, and circular argument. God Bless.

[@MathewThomasFET]

What was Jesus accused of❓️If He was a moral man, why would someone accuse Him of heinous crimes❓️Did Pilate find Him guilty ❓️

[@1zd12]

starts at 5:00

[@bujanggahertog9162]

David win

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Easily

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

Gamaliel’s Advice 33When they heard this, they were furious[g] and plotted to kill them. 34Then one in the council stood up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people, and commanded them to put the apostles outside for a little while. 35And he said to them: “Men of Israel, [h]take heed to yourselves what you intend to do regarding these men. 36For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody. A number of men, about four hundred, [i]joined him. He was slain, and all who obeyed him were scattered and came to nothing. 37After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed. 38And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it-lest you even be found to fight against God.” 40And they agreed with him, and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for [j]His name. 42And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.

[@howharditis8655]

What knowledge but in my humble simple views the death of Jesus makes absolutely no sense. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Knowing that he would be risen I don't see any sacrifices here. This is a play on the mind. If we examine this scripture indepthly we find a lot of weaknesses.

[@jimmycrosby]

As authors of some substance I prefer Karl Marx, Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris.

[@Justin-kn6dp]

All losers who will be forgotten long before Jesus.

[@ndeepowder]

Christianity is ridiculous

[@charliejackson5492]

It's over proved itself to be a cult. A 2.3 billion or 2.2 billion and 2000 year long unchallenged cult. Never truly religion or spirituality. The truth of the matter is it's dropping but it needs to drop a whole lot faster it's done far too much damage Way Beyond that it never should have ever ever should have and all its Godlessness and darkness and devilry it was and is still.

[@pepemedonoso3836]

The. Christian asking for evidence…. The irony.

[@misscameroon8062]

Well,Paul ,according to traditional narrative was a tentmaker ,hardly an elitist business...just saying,,,

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

He was a pharisee

[@logia7]

he later became a tentmaker

[@SklLLLY]

@@DontDrinkthatstuffexactly, slummin larp

[@JC-gw3yo]

A descent debate, and as a Christian, my faith is left in question. But what is to replace Christianity? If one thinks about it, all the good things in life are connected to Christianity. Automobiles, airplanes, air conditioning, modern medicine, art, human rights, copious quantities of food, womans rights, end of slavery(in the white world), rule of law, and many more . I propose that it is the white European that has given the world 99% of modern inventions and moralities. The end result is the whole world is a better place, for all the world's people. Europeans came of age when kings and despots were forced out of the way. Christianity has served its purpose. But in recent history, the globalist banksters have continuously coerced Christians into sacrificing themselves for immoral acts such as wars, for streets paved of gold in an afterlife. This is un natural to the logical thinking of a white man. Millions have died for the Abrahamic faiths, but I believe there is presently been discovered a chink in the armor. I believe we agree there is God, but Christianity has convinced white people to sacrifice themselves by the millions in bankster wars for the promise of an afterlife. I suggest we form a white church and divorce ourselves from those that impose usury upon us ...Sorry for being so long winded, but I believe this is subject to further this debate

[@zamiel3]

Getting through the day must be such as struggle. I'm sorry you're having a tough go of things. Hang in there...

[@vanboi]

Christianity may be indeed a hoax, but it's also a beautiful and powerful myth and there is nothing wrong with living by that myth and deriving guidance and energy from it. In fact I'd argue that we all live by myths, be it religious, political or social. They give us meaning, structure and allow to wrap our minds around what otherwise would have been chaos and abyss. Have a Merry Christmas 2022, regardless of how it came to be.

[@Student____2025__1]

We ought to thank WhIte people for all those good things. It wasn’t primarily Christianity. It was WhIte people. Non-white Christian societies are not as successful. Why is that?

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

What can replace Christianity is our birthright, freedom. That is ours, each and every one of us, irrespective of how much melanin is in our skin. The purpose of the deception of the Abrahamic religions is to bring us into the servitude of the Noachide Laws. That is the opposite of freedom. Reclaim your birthright! Reject those who are attempting to impose the Supreme Court of Mankind and their priesthood upon you!

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Aryans made Christianity great not the other way around. The Romans and Greeks are of Aryan (Indo European) descent.

[@GrahamHill-oz1bu]

Every religion of note tries to answer the problem of suffering of the innocent. I am a born again Atheist

[@neilcreamer8207]

If there is an -all-powerful god, it's indifferent. If god is good, it's not all-powerful. I'm an agnostic but I can safely discard any religion's ideas of what God is.

[@el290]

There’s been sadness, sickness and death well before the modern times. So, you can’t say modern “immoral” lifestyles have caused these things.

[@michaelmelamed9103]

Jesus, Gucci, Prada, Rolex…

[@quakers200]

Did the Roman historian claim to be God. There is not much riding on the validity of many documents in comparison to the new testament.

[@sarahsarah2534]

What a load of hogwash the apologist said. A manipulative mix of random half truths and omissions. Poor the people who fall for that kind of deception.

[@curtlizzi3167]

Williamson does a great job and appears to be the better scholar, however.....the point that someone comes to earth and performs 35+ miracles and it’s not recorded is simply hard to believe. If someone came to earth today and performed miracles you can bet that he would have millions and millions of followers in short order.

[@curtlizzi3167]

Marka,, I think your missing the point. It doesn’t matter about intention. Jesus may not have done things to impress but never the less the miracles he purported to perform were indeed impressive. They were in fact impossible until he performed them. Things that defy logic and the basic laws of science should be viewed as spectacular events. Again, those events were never recorded which makes them highly improbable.

[@curtlizzi3167]

@@ancientconnections9370 you are correct it was recorded. In a court of law the fact the apostles recorded these “miracles” it at least 90 years after the fact, would be considered hearsay and not admissible, so I guess it’s actually pretty easy to dismiss them after all.

[@curtlizzi3167]

@@ancientconnections9370 I don’t know what country you live in but in the US please refer to Federal Rules of Evidence 801 and 802…….but please try again, your providing some excellent comedic relief!

[@curtlizzi3167]

@@ancientconnections9370 do you actually read what you write…bud?

[@77miecken]

​@@curtlizzi3167​@curtlizzi3167 ask Warner Wallace who is a cold case homicide detective. 35 years devout atheist. He investigated the evidence based on forensic methods and came to the conclusion they are true because they prove beyond reasonable doubt. I d like to see hin flatten this schmuck. Albert Einstein (a scientist) once asked his students how much they know collectively. They decided they knew about 5% of all there is to know. Einstein responded they should consider that God might be hidden in the other 95%.

[@ladtom453]

Nice debate. Skrbina’s premise reminded me of the ancient aliens tv series. “What if Paul had a genius plan to create a hoax so perfect it would spread throughout the Roman Empire in just a few hundred years and lead to its demise and free the Jews.”

[@mattr.1887]

Paul and company could have been aiming for within their own lifetimes.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

The demise of Edom is an ongoing project. The latter part of the deal happened in 1948. It is not just Skrbina's premise. It's history.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

You sound like a Christian moron. Skrbina gave a very concise explanation for his theory.

[@AxisMundi120]

Christianity is just atheism except with more neckbeardery, less honesty and coherence and a crucifix on the fedora.

[@ArmandGilbert]

Myths have truths that cannot be directly revealed to the characters in the dream.

[@logia7]

what makes you think it is a myth?

[@quarksgluons]

Where's the Q&A?

[@4tubeystar]

dude in the beginning is wearing a stellar sweater. so beautiful

[@newmantwine1224]

I can't believe how foolish Skrbina is! This thesis that Paul invented the Jesus "hoax" is totally bogus! At its best, it's a completely outlandish revision of history! First of all, Paul was a devout Jew. He hated Jesus, whom he thought of as a false of Messiah, and he wanted nothing more than to eradicate the Christian movement. This much is clear from Paul's own testimony in Galatians 1:13-14 and is also corroborated in Acts 8. This definitively proves belief in Jesus existed long before Paul so Paul couldn't have invented the so-called Jesus hoax. But suppose it didn't. Why would Paul, who was a devout Jew like the disciples, invent the Christian religion? Why would he abandon Judaism? The answer that Skrbina gives, namely that Paul and his friends wanted to overthrow the Roman empire by corrupting/converting the masses, is utterly unsatisfactory. Firstly ... Skrbina offers no evidence in support of this motif - merely conjecture. Secondly, there are a plethora of strategies Paul could have used to distabalise Rome without forsaking his cherished Jewish beliefs, so why would he! Thirdly, as a Jew, who prided himself in his ... practice of Judaism, we know Paul would never elect to become a false teacher, which is what Skrbina wants us to believe, as he knew YHWH's punishment for false teachers. But the nail in the coffin of the Jesus hoax theory is that Paul and many of the key disciples, viz. Peter, James, Jesus' brother, and James, the son of Zebedde, were willing to suffer persecution and died martyrs for their belief in Jesus' divinity and resurrection. This proves that they sincerely believed Jesus was the Son of God who had risen from the dead and weren't just making it up. The evidence for this is undeniable from the writings of the early chufch fathers, Tacitus and Josephus. In the words of renowned Testament scholar CRAIG KEENER: “People of course die regularly for beliefs that are false; they do not, however, ordinarily die voluntarily for what they believe [or know] is false." Liars make poor martyrs.

[@mattr.1887]

Most if not all Christian martyrs probably died believing in good faith.

[@MathewThomasFET]

So, ALL the apostles lied and died propagating lies❓️🤔 And for 300 years Christians accepted torture rather than worship Caesar. Why could Pilate or Jews produce Jesus's body❓️Was Paul hallucinating ❓️

[@mattr.1887]

People die for all kinds of causes, even to this day. This is an admirable testament to the human spirit, but it doesn't mean every single thing you believe is true, even though you may believe in good faith. As for Paul...it appears he was the only eyewitness to Jesus that wrote anything down himself. And even he admits he merely had a "vision" of Jesus. Hallucination? Seizure? Maybe. It's no more implausible than a straight up miracle.

[@MathewThomasFET]

@@mattr.1887 The evidence is in the history of Israel. In Biblical prophecies and their fulfilment. Archeological evidence. Eye witnesses testimony. This is how facts are proven in courts. What evidence do you have for life emerging from non-life❓Matter coming from nothing ❓It requires more faith in eternal existence of universe than in placing reliance on evidence in the Bible.

[@mattr.1887]

Rabbi Tovia Singer has hours of content showing that Jesus has not fulfilled a single prophecy. His arguments seem pretty convincing, too. As for how does life coming from non-life? I don't know. Maybe life comes from God, or at least something like God. God's existence wouldn't mean that all Christian claims are true.

[@gregorytietjens4227]

Trump Ultrawokemaga man is Jesus hallalula 🚬🤯🥃

[@mrfrancisho]

Here are a few slides David Skrbina has used: Part One: Jesus Story is False @15:37 #2) Problem of Chronology 30 AD Jesus dies 33 AD Paul "converts" (born 5 AD) --- no writings for 20 years --- 50-70 AD 13 letters of Paul 70 AD "Mark" 85 AD "Matthew", "Luke" 95 AD "John" @18:13 But it's even worse Oldest extant Gospel fragments: "John" (P52) 125 AD "Matthew" (P104) 175 AD "Luke" (P75) 200 AD "Mark" (P45) 250 AD And the oldest physical Bible? ... Vatican Codex 350 AD! Consider non-Christian writings: 93 AD: Josephus ("Antiquities") 115 AD: Tacitus ("Annals") 115 AD: Pliny ("Letter to Trajan")

[@MaryJohnH]

The dates for the creation for the gospels is a modern invention from liberal scholarship in the mid 1800's. These changes came with many other secular views of the Christian faith. The reasoning for this was to remove any possibility of prophetic revelations in the New Testament, and to easily claim the Gospels aren't real. So if Dr Skrbina is correct about the dates, then their could be some basic evidence to believe Christianity is fake. But his belief that Paul set this all up to get back at the gentiles also sounds like a fairy tale, for he doesn't have any witnesses that Paul was a charlatan except his own presupposition that Jesus is real. Ultimately it's all faith either way at this point.

[@charliejackson5492]

Blessed Homer Iliad is older than the hebrew bible all it and its 1000 years old or 900 bce or prior set unlike the torah/tanak or oral tradition start of tje tanak or hebrew bible.

[@joyceruserious7920]

Where is the proof that Paul and Peter were martyrs? Objection that is hearsay

[@MathewThomasFET]

Do you belive Alexander the great existed and conquered many countries❓️If so, whst evidence do you have for it❓️

[@MaryJohnH]

Please remove "Isa" from the title. That is an invention of Islam. It doesn't mean "YHWH saves" or "the Salvation of the LORD" . The Arabic for Jesus is Yasue that is Ya for YHWH and Sue for to save

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

Islam and Christianity have achieved their purpose. All the Gentiles believe in the Promised Land and its Chosen People. What happened in between is merely collateral damage.

[@charliejackson5492]

Mark is not 70 mark is really 80 to 85 CE. Matthew is 105 CE Luke and Acts are 125 CE or later John is 135 CE. Also p52 is really 155 CE. First of paul's very very unholy wicked letters is 1thessalonians and that is 53 CE.

[@MathewThomasFET]

David is foxed about Tiberias ❗️

[@kurnalgt6206]

Believers believe it's what they do. Christian dude got whupped.😂

[@guym1234]

the people who wrote the bible are unknown...wtf are they talking about

[@logia7]

They are known, and they were Jewish people under captivity, so no wonder they were not popular. But the gospel was still spread.

[@jeffburton1326]

Jesus was (and is) one of the biggest hoaxes EVER. It pisses me off to think that I fell for it for most of my life.

[@josephrohland5604]

Whether Jesus is a hoax or if he really existed, it doesn't matter today as the Bible is clear: 1.Jesus only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel per Matthew 15:24. 2.Redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant per Hebrews 9:15. 3.Jesus came only to redeem those under the (Old Covenant) Law per Galatians 4:5 and 4.The ADOPTION into Sonship, the GLORY, the COVENANTS (both Old & New), the giving of the LAW, the WORSHIP and the PROMISES only BELONGED to ISRAELITES per Romans 9:4.

[@BAFREMAUXSOORMALLY]

GOSPEL JIZAS AND PAUL JIZAS ARE BOTH MYTHS!

[@mrunfausted7746]

5:48, dayum, but it's true.

[@PortmanRd]

God only knows.

[@brisadelcastillo2840]

See God's memorial to Jesus here, look up "THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS"

[@robertkily3878]

Jesus Matthew 12: 15-35, Jesus was a servant of God is real. Jesus as begotten son of God, Mary as wife of God is hoax.

[@michaelparks5669]

hahaha Jesus never lived? 99% of the world's scholars believe Jesus lived. Most scholars just laugh at "tabloid" theorists who think he did not.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

You obviously didn't listen to what David was saying at all.

[@CosmosArchipelago]

He claims he existed. LOL.. he says that from the onset

[@michaelparks5669]

@@DontDrinkthatstuff I am making a statement.....

[@leohochhauser]

Is mass murder all over the world the sign of god’s love?

[@colincrisp1592]

God forgot to send a scribe to take notes of his sons life Right yep I got a bridge to sell you cheers

[@alanthomas6438]

THERE WAS NO J THEN AND JESUS MEANS HORSE , AND HE WAS JEWISH , YAHUSHA MEANS I AM YOUR SAVIOR , HE SAID I COME IN MY FATHERS NAME , FATHER IS EITHER YA HO VA OR YAHUAH MAKES MORE SENSE BECAUSE UR LIPS DONT TOUCH

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[@MathewThomasFET]

Was Paul persecuting Christians or Romans❓️This artful liar suffered death at Roman hands for hisclies❗️😀

[@RilliEki]

Williamson calmly dominates the debate |,../

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

He got crushed

[@georgegrubbs2966]

Skrbina is known for issuing ad hominems when he is backed into a corner, or not. Here he calls Williamson "naïve", and says, "don't take it wrong." He discards legitimate evidence with a false generalization. The fact is that Jesus of Nazareth really existed. Now, debate his divinity and so on. This was done in the first century by several groups, and we know what group emerged with the Christian view. This debate was useless.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

What's the legitimate evidence that Christ as described in the Bible, existed?

[@georgegrubbs2966]

@@DontDrinkthatstuff The accounts in the New Testament count for indirect evidence of a person named Jesus, from Nazareth, existed. Josephus, the historian, has a brief account of a person named Jesus who was crucified. Most scholars of early Christianity agree that Jesus of Nazareth actually existed, was bqptized by John the Baptizer, and was crucified by the Romans. After that, all is uncertain.

[@kobayashiMaroo]

Skrbina makes a mistake I see over and over again. First, he goes to great length to say one cannot trust anything written in the gospels. Okay, check. Then, he goes on to describe the human-but-not-divine Jesus using material from . . . those same gospels he just spent several minutes listing reasons why one should not trust what they say. Wait, what?

[@mattr.1887]

I think he's willing to accept that there was a real Jesus, but is not ready to take the gospels as entire truth.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Probably because Paul would've likely based this story on someone real very loosely or then again maybe not.

[@rwnrealworldnews8752]

How many gospels of Hitler have you seen? Just saying. Maybe they didn't write about Jesus before it was safe to write.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

They were waiting for the place where the records were being held to burn and be razed to the ground. Only when there was absolutely no chance of researching any physical evidence of Jesus, it was safe to write. We still have items like Hitler's hairbrush and even a lock of his hair. They conveniently lost the foreskin of Jesus in the 1930s.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

Cope

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

The Day of the Lord 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Be Steadfast 14Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

[@RoyBlair-h9e]

😅

[@jackloganbill605]

No writings? First, a very small percentage of the population were literate. Second. Luke explains the he was a curator of the stories and writings, and many others were writing-collecting...just because we don't have these writings does not mean they did not at one time exist. Again. Luke, Mark, and others were curating. Corroborating, investigating the hundreds of stories related to Jesus....

[@neilcreamer8207]

"Luke, Mark, and others were curating. Corroborating, investigating the hundreds of stories related to Jesus...." I think there are 94 gospels. Apparently, 90 of these were BS but these four, with all their contradictions, are supposedly true. This was decided at least a century later. How did those who assembled the canon know which were which?

[@jackloganbill605]

@@neilcreamer8207smoke filled room discussion, politicking, coin flipping, strong arming....

[@neilcreamer8207]

@@jackloganbill605 Agree. It certainly had nothing to do with truth.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

​@@neilcreamer8207Indeed

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

Matthew chpt.4 17FROM THAT TIME JESUS BEGAN TO PREACH AND TO SAY,REPENT:FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND

[@makestraightthewayofthelor664]

In the Year of 2018 on the 8th month August on the 12th day I was lead to fasting and praying by OUR HEAVENLY FATHER HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH CHRIST and consecrating myself unto THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ISAAC AND JACOB/ISREAL WHO CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH THE SEA AND EVERYTHING ON AND IN IT THE FATHER OF OUR LORD, THROUGH CHRIST YESHUA OUR SAVIOR AND REDEEMER asking OUR LORD to show me what is to soon come upon the earth because of all the evil and wickness in the world and on the 2nd night of my fast in a dream I saw OUR LORD AND SAVIOR CHRIST STANDING IN THE CLOUDS And this is how OUR LORD CHRIST appeared to me in my dream 1 Timothy chpt. 6 16who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. THEN CHRIST OUR LORD SPOKE TO ME IN A GENTLE VOICE THAT SOUNDED LIKE MANY AND SAID THE NUMBER 7 TO ME AND IN THE SAME DREAM I WAS ALSO GIVEN ISAIAH CHPT.13 Isaiah 13 ► King James Bible Par ▾ A Judgment against Babylon 1The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. 6Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. 7Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: 8And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. 9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. 10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. 11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. 13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. 14And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land. 15Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. 16Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. 17Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it. 18Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare children. 19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. 21But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. 22And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

[@paulcunningham1426]

JESUS Probably NEVER EXISTED...MYTH!

[@2pmreadyfortakeoff]

David failed to prove anything.

[@joyceruserious7920]

The burden of proof is on the one who makes the claim I'd say the more fantastic claim needs to give the proof peace

[@oldtimer5111]

Wasn't that his point?

[@joyceruserious7920]

@@ancientconnections9370 What do you mean by that? You have me confused..................

[@joyceruserious7920]

@@ancientconnections9370 Hilarious, if you have any proof or documentation, or validation, or eye witnesses, or angelic beings, or God intervention, or scrolls, or anything at all ......share with us, please.................

[@joyceruserious7920]

@@ancientconnections9370 I'm so sorry but did I miss the proof of eye witnesses, and how we have that? B/C how could we?

[@romancatholic8155]

David Shrbina is a joke.

[@joyceruserious7920]

At least he wrote a book, Jesus wrote nothing down, it is all hearsay. The gospels are not witnesses the whole story is hearsay and sounds exactly like ancient myths of that empire.

[@citoante]

@@joyceruserious7920 a book about Paul’s masterplan to destroy Roman Empire in 500 years. Yes, very convincing.

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

​@citoante He lays out his theory cogently. Meanwhile you're just an angry Christian.

[@Harlem_3348]

Jesus is Lord

[@Mr_Meeseeks_5150]

@Hvrlxm, You made the assertion/claim so it is you that must prove it.

[@vanboi]

How do you know that?

[@Harlem_3348]

@@Mr_Meeseeks_5150 well he said so and so did the apostles. God raising Jesus from the dead then confirmed it

[@Harlem_3348]

@@vanboi well he said so and so did the apostles. God raising Jesus from the dead then confirmed it

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

​@hvrlxm_3348 "Because this book told me so" Amazing argument bud

[@edwardhaaland2310]

Dr Skrbina is not qualified to make these kinds of accusations. He has no degrees in any of the Theological disciplines, but only holds a masters degree in mathematics & a doctorate in philosophy.

[@spaceghost8995]

SO WHAT? You don't need a degree in anything to know that gods do not exist.

[@edwardhaaland2310]

@@spaceghost8995 "If the blind lead the blind, they shall both fall into a ditch."

[@spaceghost8995]

@@edwardhaaland2310 And that is exactly what religion does to people. You have a preacher up there just blindly asserting that a god exists and the sheep in the pews blindly believe it all.

[@mrfreeze2446]

You don't want something that's being a safety blanket for you being taken away due to you're emotional bias & attachment? You lashed out with an emotional statement then wore someone else's quote like a shield, it's normal

[@edwardhaaland2310]

Sounds like your projecting your own emotional tendencies onto me, it is you sir who has provided an emotional outburst here, I merely stated some facts. Here is analogy regarding Dr Skrbina's work here: If I am trained only as a plumber, that will not make me an expert in automobile mechanics as well.

[@MrGordonhaining]

Why did Jesus ie god not clear all this doubt at the time He didn’t because he couldn’t because he was never there