Debt: A New Religion?

[@WisecrackEDU]

The first 100 people to download Endel by clicking the link or scanning the QR code will get a free week of audio experiences! bit.ly/WisecrackEDU

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Love your content guys! Michael was amazing today!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤

[@Kimjongun19841]

I won’t Unite State debt slaves are so funny

[@phenixnunlee372]

What guitar amp & what guitar do you play.

[@TrubluFul]

ngl.. Endel appears to be yet another data collection and consumer segmentation tool and nothing to do with health and wellness.

[@VictorPerez-vu1fo]

I'd forgotten for a minute Michael was a father now, that small rant about his daughter crying her heart out just made me relate. Welcome to parenthood Michael. This is just the beginning. Enjoy every minute.

[@megamangos7408]

14:10 There's a quote I came across that fits this well, "I don't mind paying taxes when poor people can't. I do mind paying taxes when rich people won't."

[@Quroe_]

Why do you make me feel cognitive dissonance?

[@frocco7125]

So true!

[@JaredF235]

Here's one: I incurred debt to repair my car that I bought with debt so that I could go to my job to pay off debt.

[@edgilroy9887]

It really does feel like almost all of our problems could be solved by just. Not working in the first place. 😂 🌍 🔥 🚶‍♂️

[@nuance9000]

Your net worth is really just your debt load 🎉❤

[@sadbug]

But you didn’t buy a hot air balloon to go to work and expect everyone else to pay for you bad choice in transportation

[@karl_margs]

@@sadbug you must not be very familiar with American suburbia

[@OrdigTroll]

@@sadbug You're right, in fact, no one did that. Kind of weird that you brought it up, if I'm honest. Do you have a major issue with people asking you to pay for hot air balloons? Surely you're not inventing some kind of a ridiculous strawman to combat a purely imagined argument? That'd be crazy

[@me0101001000]

Fun fact: in German, the word for debt in German is Schuld. Schuld also means guilt. If you're in debt, you're guilty.

[@1998Cebola]

same in Swedish (skuld)

[@WernerEdgar]

Not surprisingly, same in Dutch - Schuld - and with the same double meaning.

[@treasey8655]

probably the same in all germanic languages

[@johannesschutz780]

I mean, mostly you'd say "Schulden" right which is plural, so people in debt are the most guilty people of all

[@calebschroeder9450]

​@@treasey8655 English is Germanic

[@capnbarky2682]

I was just journaling about this today. There's a certain eldritch quality to the idea that the credit system means that "the market" is devouring not just everything that currently exists, but everything that will ever exist.

[@scottandcoke1342]

I wash myself with a rag on a stick

[@AngelSaintCloud]

Rock on

[@loandbehold650]

Y'all got sticks?

[@Elektrik2002]

Ooo rag on a stick I fancy all I can afford is my hand 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@beaugearing]

damn you got a stick? Boujee.

[@discofighter6925]

ooh fancy man

[@petiteplanete]

The most important thing for me about Graeber for me is his argument that, for the first time in history, debtors are solely responsible for defaults. Until recently, lenders were allowed to suffer losses.

[@CriminallyCritical]

I don't think I'm making a great leap to suppose that if education a) chains you to debt forever because b) nothing pays well anymore anyways, we will one day find ourselves collectively watering our crops with the power of electrolytes...

[@iExploder]

It's what plants crave, after all.

[@LuisSierra42]

brawndo the thirst mutilator

[@Ouranos369]

Oh no we're running out of French fries and burrito coverings.

[@afriendyouhadonce]

you guys forgot to bring up how Debt Buyers work. being in debt is terrible but once you find that the system your under has sold your debt to a private collector for pennies on the dollar, you start really wondering about how it fits together. I like to imagine most for the people who watched this also watched the Last Week Tonight episode on the same subject.

[@marqpsmythe228]

Due to a glitch in Medicare, a local hospital sold my $40,000 deductible (debt) to a debt collection agency in another state. I got demanding phone calls at all hours for a year. 🤬

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

OH NO, a US state making phone calls demanding money. That's just what ALL states do systemically to the imperial periphery, your question is just about sharing the loot. Savings SHOULD be bulwark for crisis, and something you give up because it lets you AVOID the crisis. Going bankrupt is an incredibly gentle way to put you on that mandatory socializing of your private property, defined by the fact it's being MONETIZED like property ownerhip. Insurance racket and debt buyers is simply the fact that USA bloats its GDP so YOU can have 3rd world goods NOW and pay liveable wage "later", meaning never.

[@capnbarky2682]

Having someone in debt to you is a risk because they could die or worse, default. So smaller banks that sell something like your mortgage to a larger bank so they can get immediate income that they can invest, rather than collect your repayments and interests. The larger banks and lending businesses will bundle the debts they purchase into things like mortgage backed securities which they sell as investments to businesses for things like pension plans and securities (for example, short selling their own stock as "business insurance" in case their price ever falls), they take this money and then might loan it out to smaller companies who can break the money up into smaller loans for things like student loans. In not so many words, they're using your debts to them to take out loans so they can lend out more money so more people will be in debt to them.

[@SinHurr]

Glory to me, the 69th like.

[@stupidpleb085]

It's a constructive fraud at the very least. Your NAME is not you. It's there for your benefit. They want to make you liable for the corporate name they attached to you as soon as you came out of the womb.

[@MstEli]

I think beginning your adult life with thousands of dollars of debt is a horrible thing for a young person

[@keiththorpe9571]

This is not complicated, it is really very simple. Debt became a central feature of American life because the average American's cost of living increased in real dollars while the average American's annual wage/salary stagnated (again, in real dollars). The average American took on a staggering personal debt burden because we simply cannot live within our means anywhere in this country strictly on our annual wages/salary. The only way to cover the shortfall is by taking on personal debt.

[@lordblazer]

doesn't matter how many times you say it.. there are too many dumbasses who haven't picked up on this and live in a fantasy world where everyone is fair when in fact everything is set up for you to fail .

[@capnbarky2682]

The problem is fairly complicated because the issue is that credit as a system is the primary facilitator of trade in most countries now. There is not a single entity on earth that is doing meaningful business with what resources they currently have, every single organization is primarily growing by leveraging their projected future value. This is a system of everyone being in debt to everyone else because every entity has been pushed to sell their future for their growth right now. Anything that refuses to grow gets eaten by something else. The individual that cannot grow their purchasing power with inflation will eventually fall into the prison industrial complex, the corporation will be subsumed by larger corporations. It is the consumption of everything that exists and everything that will ever exist. Debt is a mind virus on humanity, the idea of it hovers over us like a dark curse.

[@Drennis]

keep going boys im almost there

[@TheMightyPALADIN]

Even in English the word debt is used to mean sins in some versions of the Lord's Prayer.

[@BlueProphet7]

There's plenty of places you can live within modest means in the US that are safe and beautiful. But people want to live in and around big cities. Cities have built up an incredible amount of luxury, even for the poorest among us, so people don't want to leave. You can find places in the Midwest that are incredibly affordable and not rural. I have a big house that I bought for 130k that is 800k-1M in suburbs around big hub cities. And I'm not in the styx either, we have super high speed Gb internet, a rich italian and mexican community with incredible food and people, and we have access to all the different stores we need within 1-2 miles (the town we're in is MUCH bigger than that, but stores are everywhere, so you don't have to go far to find variety). People think the midwest is all cornfields outside of cities like Columbus or Chicago, but there's plenty of modern suburbs that are affordable, safe, well populated (but not too densely) and a great place to grow up. You just have to look.

[@beccangavin]

I think debt forgiveness would be a short term boon to the economy but it doesn’t address the deeper issue which is that the cost of higher education has drastically outpaced inflation while the proportion of what we pay for higher education that is directed towards actual educators has decreased. I’m not opposed to debt forgiveness and would prefer my tax dollars spent on student debt forgiveness rather than subsidies for the coal industry, but I would REALLY like to see the fundamental issues of how we value the labor of our educators versus the labor of administrators and the bankers that finance the loans. Our government built a safety net for the private banks that issue loans to students, but we don’t extend the same protections to the actual students themselves. So multiple fundamental issues with higher education in the US that need addressing beyond just the student debt problem.

[@rickusa3617]

You also can't sensibly address debt forgiveness while simultaneously charging new students even more.

[@sc065]

Well said.

[@Jasondurgen]

Essentially, the problem with student loan forgiveness needs to be tackled from 17 different angles at once and all with equal ferocity

[@nounnoun4830]

Bringing up military is an interesting point. A large chuck of those who enlist in the military due so because of there financial means or debt that they were unable able to pay. The G.I. Bill is one the largest incentives to join because it is a promise of money just for school, meaning after your contract you’ll never have to worry about student loan debt. I also know a lot of military personnel who did some college but had to drop out because of financial reasons or debt, now there serving in the military to pay it off and finish school. There’s also a program called tuition assistance that pays for collage or university classes while your active duty serving. The government has to money to forgive student loan debt but if they did recruiting numbers would drop dramatically.

[@Gutock]

I was about a hair away from signing on and only avoided it due to family sitting me down and talking it out. I honestly felt I had 0 other choices available to me other than taking on debt I had no idea how to pay back. I had classmates sign on and didn't come back (Iraq War) and I'm grateful every day to just have debt but be alive. The fact that life is like that for people is so seriously fucked.

[@averyeich9726]

@@Gutock I'm sorry for our losses you mention. Our so called civilization is only following money down the drain. Hope we can save the baby from that bath emptying bastard.

[@Gutock]

@@averyeich9726 Me too, friend. Me too.

[@aprilgale2917]

I have a hard time with student debt forgiveness for very selfish reasons. I still think 100% that it should be done, but I never went to college because I knew I couldn't afford it. I love learning and it has been one of the greatest regrets of my life. If I had known that one day it would be forgiven, I would absolutely have gone and it just feels unfair that now that it's too late in my life, I'm the one who missed out and despite my hard work will be left to suffer even more income inequality.

[@sc065]

Yeah, it's really fucked up. If forgiveness happens, you did the "wrong" thing by trying to do the right, responsible thing. While others who didn't give a shit are given large amounts of $.

[@BillyBasd]

Thanks for your honesty. Here's something for your recitence. Jacked up to 11, of course. I don't want to end child sacrifice. Mine was taken, I am not OK with others not knowing the suffering I did. It's up to 11, same kind of thinking. I don't want the bad thing to end, if it happened to me it should happen to others.

[@goncalocarneiro3043]

Correct. It is good that you were responsible, but you surely understand that wanting to be rewarded for being responsible is different than wanting everyone else to be punished for not being responsible.

[@sc065]

@@goncalocarneiro3043 Obviously they understand that.

[@MuadMouse]

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. The actual injustice, though, isn't that debt would be forgiven, but that education is behind a paywall in the first place. Being salty at debt forgiveness would be blaming victims. And it sucks that while you're a victim of this twisted system, there's no similar relief on the table for you. Sucks to be us, but the capitalist system needs to be replaced or it'll screw over later generations even worse. So lets be sure to channel our frustrations into revolutionary action! :)

[@fromoakandrowan2794]

I hate my bosses because they allowed an unsafe environment that resulted in me having to have major spinal surgery in my late 30s and during this whole process, only paid 70 percent of my pay. Even getting the surgery and that low of pay required giving another 20 percent to a lawyer to ensure I get what I am entitled to.

[@christiandauz3742]

Be a hacker. Steal ALL of their money Just give half of that money to Ukraine

[@blindalleycomics6351]

I was suckered into a loan to go to Art School...one year of college took 10 years to pay off. This coincided with the Great Recession. My generation was sold the "college = career" scam, but I came out of it with zero prospects, wondering where I went wrong. I actually had a mental breakdown trying to figure out how to pay it off.

[@toe2328]

What is the name of it? Do not let yourself be screwed and not share with the world the name of that screw. As for the money you spent, and what you got for it; it's on you to make it what it'll be.(The project is still on going, Friend... You are still breathing.🙂) I feel like you're suffering a lil' low self-esteem; and it's mostly what made you a easy prey for the recruiting ads. Please look into building yourself up. You are an awesome creator. You can make good things happen. You are God's kid and so a budding god yourself... However; this isn't the same place it was. It's all capitalist commercial consumerism, so... You'll have to engage in trade in some way. (duh.😉) But, look around. Depending on your demographics; connecting your abilities and potential with others is do'able. Here's a suggestion: Art camp. Study diffrent camps and adapt your own model. The demand for short-term theraputic/creative exposure and outlet is huge in all ages. Just pick your niche. Also, look into the SBA(small businessmens association) in your demo. They often meet and share intel on how to attract and raise income. There's also tons of grant money available. Get yours! Sorry to go long. I care... Reach back any time you need to be reminded that 🫵🪨, or need more eyes bird-dogging leads. 🖖🙂

[@anniefitzgerald4447]

See, that’s the thing, that education you received should have been more affordable or free. I would hate to see a world where people don’t study the arts anymore simply because they can’t find a career in their field of study. What a sad, ugly and boring world that would be. I’m curious what kind of art did you study? Keep your head up and try not to lose the motivation that made you go to art school in the first place….. from one artist to another…. Don’t stop creating and adding to the beauty of this world. ☺️😉

[@Jasondurgen]

“Maybe if you wouldn’t have chosen a worthless profession you would’ve been in a good job making money, you dolt.” I didn’t see one of these ignorant comments on your post so I thought I’d add one it.

[@CEWIII9873]

get a trade skill look into refrigeration technician which pays very well

[@samitabbakh8409]

@@Jasondurgen Why is it ignorant?

[@MCSorry]

Mom! The philosopher on TV said I could burn down the bank!

[@Jamyn1996]

We won’t tell 🫣🤫

[@pennywaldrip3774]

Yay, Michael's back! Congrats on the new baby. (Tour of the nursery, "here is the craps table.") I actually used my Discover card to spend $2 in a vending machine. That's pretty embarrassing. That was yesterday.

[@nykole1963]

Thanks for giving me yet another reason to never have children. Being born into a life of indentured work, and the world feeling like those just born owe it something is a place I would never subject a child.

[@jeremyslather]

We don't pardon their debt, what do they think they are? A private company?

[@cattibingo]

Nah they are the owners of the debt though

[@marcosias]

About the complaint "I don't want my taxes paying your student loan" - I bet a lot of those people are perfectly happy to let my taxes pay the interest deduction for their mortgage. Or the huge piles of money we dump into fossil fuel companies to "keep gas prices low"

[@bubbafug00gle51]

I can't argue that those types exist... but there are also a lot of people who crunched the numbers and made the choice not to attend college... if you reward people who didn't do that, you are essentially punishing those who did. Keep in mind, most of the people who didn't attend college (especially the younger ones) do not own a home, and many of them do not drive a car. It's not just boomers and legacy kids who would be paying the price. As an old fart who was lucky enough to only pay upfront for community college (back when that shit was a bargain), I don't really have any skin in the game. I sympathize with anyone who was told the right thing to do was go to college NO MATTER WHAT... but also with people who saw the grift and avoided it... and even more so, the people who just could not go to college because of family commitments or... um "inability". I prefer LARGE tax breaks for student debt repayment. The value of those could be based on income level, so any conservative whining about "elites" living off the hard work of "real Americans" would be easily refuted... not that they listen to actual facts

[@vulpixelful]

​@@bubbafug00gle51Yeah but a lot of people just...couldn't get into college. Let's not act like a lot of these people had the foresight to predict how messed up the US university system is at 17 💀 I chose not to have kids but my taxes aren't exempt from paying for benefits for children and their parents. Where are _my_ tax credits?? 😂 I actually don't care because I indirectly benefit from that, in the same way society and the economy benefits from a population with a decent literacy level with disposable income to buy products from brands in my 401k.

[@weregretohio7728]

Those morons don't want a functional society but want to suck off Trump and Musk in a pile of corpses.

[@OrdigTroll]

@@bubbafug00gle51 Helping people isn't punishing the people who don't get help

[@Alverant]

@@bubbafug00gle51I see what you're saying, but the frequency people become successful by avoiding college is much lower than those who succeed by going. We have cognitive bias here. We love the story about the rugged individual who went out on their own and made millions without even a BA degree. But we never hear of the stories of those who couldn't achieve their reams and stuck in some low-level job for the rest of their lives. As a society, we're better off with more educated people. It's also we're not rewarding people with debt forgiveness. Many former students already paid so much that the principal would have been covered. It's those interest rates that's the problem. If the interest rate was 0% or 1% we wouldn't be having this problem. We're not rewarding them as much as undoing a wrong they suffered.

[@ywlumaris]

The last charge I put on my credit card was food. I overspent by 20 on my food budget and sent the difference as a payment as soon as I got home. But it still feels sad that my food budget is 80 a week and I couldn’t afford the extra twenty. (I work 50-60 hrs a week and make more than twice min wage, so…yeah…) I do not have student debt, I paid mine off; but I wouldn’t wish it on anyone and I think we need to act like a collective for everyone’s good instead if “well I suffered so they should too!!”

[@andrewt7264]

I'm a minister. I gave a Sermon using my student debt to illustrate what it feels like to have the relief that Christ has forgiven our "debts." Everyone loved it and told me how they felt sympathetic about my student debt. The next week, Biden's student debt relief was announced, and conservatives began denouncing it, and my congregation turned on that message in an instant.

[@Secret_Takodachi]

weird its almost like formalized religion breeds a love of facism in the lockstep followers. Nobody cared about peace & love to begin with, they were just their to get their egos stroked. Welcome to America sucker.

[@metaouroboros6324]

Then whom do you minister to if they aren't even listening?

[@e.t.theextraterristrial837]

Unless you're looking into 1)becoming a professor (not with it if you do your research) 2) a professional field that requires a license or degree (law, medicine, accountancy, finance) 3)becoming a full time scientist or researcher 4)getting into engineering of any sort 5)Getting a full ride scholarship DONT BOTHER GOING INTO university. What to do instead 1)trade jobs (pays a shit ton of money, you get paid for traineeships) 2)Live with your parents and look for internships in digital marketing, programming, data jobs and get about a year's worth of experience. Get some certifications from coursera or Google and turn that internship into a job or look for paid jobs. I live in Malta in a high paying industry. Employers don't make degrees important, it's all about experience here. We have people in middle management without degrees and people emigrate to America working as data scientists, 3D artists etc without a degree.

[@ikeharris7234]

Y'all really know when to hit a guy with the philosophical analysis of why he's financially fucked. First time there was the "why you always feel poor" video when I just got done donating plasma to pay utilities.... Now this gets uploaded as I'm in the middle of donating to be able to pay my credit card debt off.

[@MartinRenner]

I mean, it helps other people, but the fact that your blood is taken to literally be able to survive sounds sooo dystopian holy cow.

[@bubbafug00gle51]

Have you considered a career in the lucrative field of medical testing? I'm in recruitment for MalCor's medical division, our slogan is: "With MalCor you're not just a guinea pig, you're a guinea person!"

[@LuisSierra42]

@@MartinRenner You best start believing in cyberpunk dystopias, you are in one

[@ikeharris7234]

@MartinRenner I mean i feel like I've got it better than most. I've at least got family I can rely on if I need support. But at the same time money is hard on everyone right now, so I hate to make anything worse for them

[@bubbafug00gle51]

@@LuisSierra42 That's a lie! I've stuck ever type of computer interface I can think of into every orifice I have... and have not been able to hack an f'n thing... dystopia sure; cyberpunk nope

[@FriendofWigner]

What is frustrating is that a non-zero number of people who harp on the responsibility of students to pay their debt are also in favor of defaulting on the national debt. It's like they want to be paid what they're owed, but don't want to pay what they owe. The lack of good faith in these sorts of discussions is why I rarely engage in them anymore. I literally have anything better to do; usually involving recreational pharmaceuticals.

[@BrianHockenmaier]

I would love to see an example of anyone proposing to default on the national debt

[@ericgaskins571]

Well when you look at a budget with 200 million for gender studies in Pakistan, and yea that's cover for something black opp related I'm sure, it just doesn't seem like they care either about who we owe to what we owe it for.

[@freewilly1193]

​@@BrianHockenmaierpretty sure Mushy Turd Greene called for it.

[@jamessizemore7103]

I was very lucky in that I had to take on very little student debt to get through school. I was fortunate enough to have family members that could support my education. I still had to work and be a poor college kid for a while, but now I have a decent job and I can cover my own living, I always try to pay stuff forward in some way and usually don’t expect to be paid back. Whether it’s buying someone food / drinks or covering for a charge I’m happy to do so because it improves everyone’s quality of life just a little

[@StephenLeGresley]

As for Student Loan Debt. It's a scam. When people gradutate they have to immediately take any job they can find because if they don't start paying off their loans now, the interest will consume them so they never have time to actually search for the career they studied for and have to take any job they can get. And before some idiot talks about trade jobs. Why should being poor mean you have to do those jobs? Do we get to force the rich kids into doing them? No, they get to choose any career they want to have. Their parents pay their tuition, they bribe the best schools to get them in and everyone else has to struggle. We need to tear down this system and force a more fair and equitable one.

[@amberallen7809]

There's another layer to all of it as well. Ability. I have a mountain of student loan debt from school. I actually learned about the trades and took a few classes in high school, which I really enjoyed! But I have a physical disability, and my body just wouldn't be able to handle those types of jobs regularly or long term. My disability also makes it difficult to drive, which translated to only being able to get minimum wage cashiering type jobs because most 'good' jobs in the US (and plenty of shit ones too) require a driver's license and your own car. I started looking abroad for jobs. I got a job offer as an English as a Second Language teacher in Thailand. I opened a credit card, and put the moving expenses on it. I've been teaching in Thailand ever since, nearly 4 years now. I was able to pay off the credit card in about a year. (I now have credit card debt again from some continuing education stuff and a trip back to the US to see family 🙃) I get paid next to nothing by US standards here (it was a truly lateral move in terms of pay) but it's a living wage here. Things are tight atm, but I'm hoping to get the credit card paid down again in another 6 months or so, then I can start putting that money towards a savings and emergency fund (a function I currently use the credit card for) but for the first time in my life, I don't have to worry if I can afford my (regular) bills. It's a shame that I couldn't make things work in the US. I've accepted that I will die with my student loans, and that the US, more generally, just doesn't want me. Idk if I'll stay in Thailand, but unless something massive changes in my life, I have no intention of going back to living in the US and never making enough to live on after being yelled at all day by masses of entitled people. There's annoying/hard things about being an ESL teacher, but its very preferable to being a cashier, which was looking like my only option back home, in part for the simple fact that I don't drive.

[@clouduponthemoon530]

It wasn't my initial debt.... it's the fees and charges added up that doubled my loans. There's no way I will ever pay them down.

[@gball8466]

It's 21st century indentured servitude. It's how we are kept in line and stuck in the system.

[@Hatchet_Jack556]

I paid 10k out of pocket for my last year of college. Didn't pull out loans. Worked my ass off to pay for my school. AND YET I STILL SAY, FORGIVE ALL STUDENT LOANS AND MAKE COLLEGE FREE. It was difficult as shit working and going to school. Not sure how I even managed. Wouldn't wish that on any of my fellow Americans

[@jamesbuchanan1913]

You missed a big part of the problem: interest. Interest is the biggest sin. Without interest many people would have been able to pay off their school loans and housing. More significantly by confusing the interest and principle we confuse the parts that should shame the debtor and what should shame the debtee.

[@capnbarky2682]

There would be no point to selling loans without interest. Humans were playing with fire when we thought up selling our futures to begin with.

[@iExploder]

@@capnbarky2682Indeed. Banks and credit card companies make more in interest alone than the principal they loan out. That's why they keep lending more and more money to people who prove they can pay (good credit rating and income): infinite revenue via infinite interest.

[@kevinhateswriting]

The "I don't want my taxes to pay for your student loan debt" line is such BS. The whole point of debt cancellation is that *no one pays the debt*! It just gets cancelled!

[@risingtide117]

While there are good arguments for student loan forgiveness, the loans are to private organizations, so the government would, legally, have to pay the organizations using its funds, ie tax dollars.

[@saininj]

My favorite is when they argue, "why should I be paying for wealthy Ivy League kids", without even realizing "wealthy" kids don't have student loans to begin with.

[@toyotaprius79]

It's the whole boomer bs of "I suffered so should you" when college tuition back in their day was pennies compared to now.

[@Cjorss]

I'm not sure that's how it actually works. If we stick with the example of student loan debt then the institution got paid, it paid all of it's staff. That money was paid by the bank which holds your loan. The bank makes money from the interest on the loan, so long as the rate is higher than inflation. If that debt was just canceled then the bank is now on the hook for all of the money it paid the school. The banks wouldn't be able to absorb all of those losses. If the government did decide to "forgive" the student loan debt, it can't just tell the banks to piss off, it would have to do that by paying off the loans in your place. This isn't a value judgement and if you do know better than me then please explain how it works.

[@nuance9000]

​@@CjorssStudent loan debt isn't a debt as much as a tax. Sure, the institution got paid when the loan was taken out, just like a mortgage; but it's public debt... To be paid back by the recipient of the loan... An almost risk-free financial product, that gets chopped and sold as derivatives- the real, real reason rich peeps don't want student loans forgiven. In the end, a collector gets paid a fee by the borrower, the crappy web portals we sign into to pay, but it's the government who collects the funds. Although "government" might be a misnomer, since the largest financial centers are state-run, private institutions. But none of this matters because all neoliberal spending packages, whether student loan forgiveness or corporate tax cuts, are paid for by deficit spending. Deficit spending that pays for itself because of the USD is the world's currency, meaning the global south pays it off for us 😂😢

[@GovernmentFails]

I’m debt free at 30. Including paid off college loans. College is very predatory. We need to stop these guaranteed loans

[@mondayjoker]

If the loans weren't guaranteed, creditors wouldn't give loans to most people, and college would become more restrictive. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but voters wanted everyone to go to college, and the creditors wouldn't lend any money without insurance. Something's got to give.

[@GovernmentFails]

@@mondayjoker thats fair but guarunteed loans has meant colleges can charge whatever they want because the loans are guarunteed and you cant even get out by declaring bankruptcy

[@TheShaShow]

Dude, I loved this video. I'm honestly a big fan of the proper use of the Bible. Most people just use it to beat people over the head, but don't ever address the forgiving nature of most of the teachings. They often use the book in a way that reminds them and condemns them for their debt. It's a strange dark world out there in the minds of men. Dark in the Allegory of the Cave kinda dark if you're picking up what I'm putting down.

[@BenMcMurray]

I feel like just forgiving the interest on student loans is the best middle ground for those that don't want their taxes going to towards other peoples student loans.

[@themisfitjoe]

Best solution I've heard is allow bankruptcy and charge the institution half of the balance. High Student Loan debt is primarily accumulated by Masters and doctoral candidates, and if they are jacking prices up because of free government money essentially for a job market that sees no value in certain degrees, then they should pay up.

[@darkcloud9053]

​@themisfitjoe finally I can stand behind such sensible stance.

[@darkcloud9053]

​@themisfitjoe finally I can stand behind such sensible stance.

[@DTFauxClassic]

I think what bugs me the most about those who argue against student loan forgiveness is that they don't even argue that the system isn't screwed up, yet will make every excuse to not be on the side of people who were taken advantage of. Every argument to not forgive debt either requires a strawman (assuming everyone who is in debt got a "worthless" degree) or victim-blaming (that 17-18 year olds should've known that the system was broken, despite so many authoritative figures in our lives hand-waving the cost because "Your diploma will pay for itself.).

[@andrewadams7607]

Congratulations on your new screaming daughter. You may or may not recall from a Livestream before her birth that I too am a new father of a baby girl. Mine screams too. Likely the parasocial context at work but as a new father of a baby girl who has student loan debt from taking every undergrad philosophy course my university had to offer, I feel a kinship to your own circumstances. Wishing you well.

[@Fenrisson]

I don't have a credit card, but my last unnecessary object bought was a bamboo toothbrush. It costed me 6,67, way more than a regular plastic one.

[@Moshington]

Student loan debt forgiveness is very simple. We are backpaying for the free higher education we never got.

[@herman1francis]

Just instore free education like we have in europe. I know it sucks that you had to pay it. But because it was bad for you does it have to be bad for everyone for eternity? Medieval peasants died in droves by the plague war and famine. They'd be pretty pissed to see you behind your computer in your climatized appartment with your industrial beer and bag of chips and not a single pustule in your face. "Real fair" they would think.

[@missnoneofyourbusiness]

​@@herman1francisMedieval peasants worked for only a few hours during the day yet they could afford popping 10 children and having a piece of land for their crops. If only they could afford proper healthcare OH WAIT we can't afford proper healthcare either.

[@patstevenswhohatesbuttermi5861]

The government is subsidizing capitalism by providing an educated workforce. Our employers are the ultimate beneficiaries of our education. If they're worried about "who's going to pay" for SLF, it really should be employers.

[@estebanrodriguez5409]

As someone from a "developing country", we have been paying a debt or another for all of my existance. Country debt exists on a whole different level. It takes over people's right over and over again

[@Uriel238]

Once we establish that money gravitates towards those who horde it, it's easy to see the polar opposite, where money is quickly bled from those how have no other options. Debt is the result of that end trying to survive even though they don't have the societal means. So it's time to rethink if being poor is a wrongdoing, a sin against God, or a crime against the state. Right now, the mechanics of society play out as if it is, and morbidly so. But if we can see that no billionaire _deserves_ their ill gotten gains then we can see that no debtor deserves their bonded state. Recently, the UN voted to establish food (protection from hunger) as a human right, for which all nations voted _aye_ with the exception of the US and Israel. I'm pretty sure the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights already assures access to food, shelter, clothing, information by which to decide our circumstances and protection from disease. But then here we are obligated to get these things from the company store, and work for the company to earn our credit. That's bonded servitude.

[@Brownyman]

Imagine Lamborghini dealers had high school fairs where 17 and 18 year olds got invited to tour the factory and sales process offices to see the wonders of modern institutions. Where teachers espoused the virtues of "higher auto-motoring", and instilled in their students the dream not to settle for an Accord or Fusion. Where government backed lending institutions actively encouraged these teenagers to take out 6 figures worth of debt in pursuit of their dreams. And no need to worry - one need only make "interest only payments" if things don't work out. The stupidest thing about that fantasy land above as it relates to our world? A car loan you're allowed to default on, and you can always sell it to someone else.

[@iExploder]

Not just this, but also imagine if you couldn't get a job that had a hope of satisfying the ever increasing cost of living without the very best available car.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

The Dodge dealership near the military base would like to chime in…

[@Strangeland701]

I got in debt for my masters degree. Now I hope it pays off or otherwise I would have wasted my time and money. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.

[@sarahnadespeaks5047]

This video resonated with me. Thank you for posting it. Many of the frustrations and themes explored here are things I have been experiencing quite a bit since graduating with my BA in 2015. I have never been able to get a job in my field of study. I live in a tourist town and have mostly worked whatever customer service jobs I can get to pay bills and my student loans. I am in a lucky rare minority of people who was able to pay off their student loans. The only way I was able to do that was a unique set of circumstances. Firstly, a global pandemic happened and the interest on my loans was suspended. Secondly, I was a grocery store clerk during this time. Thirdly, the world went into lockdown and I suspended my hobbies of concert-going and jewelry-collecting for two years. If these circumstances hadn't presented themselves, I would probably still be making payments on interest of my thirty-three thousand dollar loans. In response to your question of what the last thing I charged on my credit card that I couldn't resist, concert tickets. While watching this video I bought tickets to see Anta Baker in concert a few days before Christmas.

[@magnusvir8]

the system of bartering and social debts reminds me of how i played on a minecraft server. i created a fully automated society where everyone could get anything they wanted just by asking. there was a group of capitalists on the server that hated i would just let people have things and demanded i stop under cutting them. i refused and several days later they blew up my city and destroyed everything. the server died shortly after that because i refused to rebuild my machines and no one wanted to play without the support i had given. TLDR: capitalism destroyed a minecraft server i played on.

[@nuance9000]

Mob behavior. Classic sociological move, they literally made a gang over Minecraft 😂😅😂😢

[@iExploder]

Basically how capitalism was established in real life, too.

[@justme8184]

good presentation. the concept of "debt" underlies so many of our social interactions. i would like to see more on the subject of how we incorporate this concept into our daily lives (while often not realizing the fact that debt is the primary driver of the action rather than the action's stated purpose)

[@marieseaman7855]

I'm with Michael on the craps table thing, glad someone is brave enough to say it

[@Alverant]

I get similar mental images to "craps table" as a "poop deck".

[@Ford_prefect_42]

I always hear "crabs table" so my image is much cuter thankfully

[@fransionseamor9368]

Honestly, connecting this video with the philosophical message in “They Live” says a lot about our society from the Regan era to now

[@BlakeTheDrake]

Personally, I always felt like the American system of 'perpetual debt' came about as a direct response to the Civil War and the Emancipation. Since the industrialists couldn't *literally* own their workers anymore, they had to find another way to chain people down and force them to work way too much for way too little, thus maintaining the profits they'd grown accustomed to. Debt was the solution. Are you really 'free' when your choice is between working a terrible job with terrible pay and terrible working-conditions, OR starving to death in the gutter? Sure you are - just as much as the slaves of yesteryear were when they had to choose between laboring in the cotton-fields OR being whipped bloody and hung from the nearest tree...

[@CEWIII9873]

meh the agrarians owned people - not the industrialists

[@MrMarinus18]

Slavery and debt are deeper connected than that. The most common way slavery happened in Greece was actually debt. If someone was in debt they had to pay off that debt by slavery. In ancient Greece debt and slavery were treated as pretty much interchangeable.

[@CEWIII9873]

@@MrMarinus18 fair enough Plus they had their music...

[@MrMarinus18]

@@CEWIII9873 This was expanded later on by the Romans who said people had a debt for the privilage of being taken into Roman civilization. This was then later on adopted by the Christians. Slavery under Christianity was largely based on the idea that the slaves had a debt for the service their masters gave them for being Christianized. Because of this there was a strong practice especially in the US to make sure slaves never converted cause that would imply their debt was repaid. Essentially slaves were kept in a perpetual state of converting to Christianity.

[@r.m.ocinneide6935]

Boss I hated: He gave himself a 50,000 dollar Christmas bonus (we didn't get one at all) and took the entire week before the holidays off while we worked without OSHA safety precautions through to Christmas Eve moving our warehouse from its old location to the new location, doing things such as putting up pallet racking, climbing up said racking to put in new shelves, and boxing up Christmas edition subscription boxes. Meanwhile, we were all relying on the stimulus check of 600 to pay our rent (which he said was our Christmas bonus from the government). Because we were making 12/hour. And had 35 hr workweeks because we had to clock out for lunch. And that placed us just under the required hours for benefits in that state. I was convinced Kafka and Marx had been handed the keyboard that penned the script to my life.

[@rhynoklein7]

As a veteran that used the gi bill and as a teacher. College debt should be forgiven.

[@matthewkornder5586]

As a veteran that has also used his GI Bill, you should pay back debts you volunteered to take.

[@quatreraberbawinner2628]

Ive never ran up a credit card, but when i was going to school I would use my returns from student loans to buy magic the gathering cards, it got really out of hand

[@erenjager4698]

Omg another mtg player out in the wild. And it's ok all magic players have spending problems.

[@quatreraberbawinner2628]

@@erenjager4698 theres a good reason they call it paper crack

[@Dr_1212]

Another day older & deeper in Debt

[@alexholslin4651]

What's especially wack about student loans is that, in my case, my student loans were about the same amount as the car I bought a few years ago. However, the loan for my car payment has a payment plan of 5 years. So, the amount I owe at this time is significantly lower than the original loan. Meanwhile, my student loan debt is basically still the same, despite the fact that both monthly payments are about the same amount.

[@commiexian]

I'm literally editing an episode of my podcast, Bread and Rosaries, about Debt and sin. This is a very odd coinkydink! 😅

[@DonJorgeRM]

Wow I love that title so much! Where can I find your podcast?

[@commiexian]

@@DonJorgeRM Thanks! It's available everywhere podcasts exist! ☺️

[@danpavelko8414]

Higher education should be either free or heavily subsidized by the state, as a well educated and skilled populace is in the best interest of everybody. To ascribe a negative morality unto the debts incured in persuance of life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness is wholly un-American and detrimental to society. IMHO

[@MissJean63]

I became a teacher 7 years ago. I’m now 60 with $150k in student loan debt. I will die in debt. It will never get paid. We need debt forgiveness. If you want teachers, then pay for college.

[@ashram12]

Speaking of debt: I once was berated by an internet stranger because I admitted that I barely paid my medical bills incurred during cancer treatment. Mind you, I have health insurance, so the doctors and hospitals got paid, they just didn't get paid as much as they billed. But I guess it's my fault for not asking for an estimate to see if I could afford to get cancer treatment in the first place...So in conclusion, since I had cancer, I realized that in the U.S, there aren't debtor prisons yet, therefore I don't need to stress about debt.

[@tomiodatanuki7600]

The sad part is that recently televangelists basically said Jesus is a communist and weak 😅😅😅

[@iExploder]

It's super fun when Christians abandon Christ and embrace capitalism as their religion while still calling it Christianity.

[@Geoman362]

The unbreakable nature of the chains really sucks. I did not know what a "jubilee" was in the biblical sense before watching this. I wonder what that would look like. What people would think if they were told "we're freeing all the slaves" in reference to the working class.

[@dsimms917]

I've been paying back student loans since 2003 and still owe more than I borrowed due to compounding interest. I qualify for PSLF, or I should.... they found a loophole.😢

[@nowhereman6019]

I am literally struggling to get financial aid right now. A year of work only made me enough money to pay for one semester, and the college is dicking around with me every step of the way in an attempt to deny me any help.

[@edgilroy9887]

My job screwed up my paycheck and didn’t pay me for an entire week so I had to get an instant credit card approval and use the virtual credit card while I was waiting for my paycheck to hit the bank. What was really funny is how the credit card company approved me for a $13,000 credit line 😝 fml I am gonna burn this card asap.

[@jquest3329]

"But dude, money is just a social construct and you should forgive that week's pay if you believe in the Bible " - Michael, probably

[@MrFuthisshit]

I don't have any debt but i don't have any savings either. I'm scared shitless of being in debt so the most i've ever gotten is like a 4 month repayment plan on a phone.

[@farmpunk_dan]

If the Endel sponsor is looking for feedback, your product is way too expensive. A one-time purchase download at that price point would be absurd. As a subscription it’s insane.

[@jajr4838]

ONE MUST IMAGINE

[@MaskedHeart]

Mike, hope all is well. Good to see you. Keep doing ya thang. ❤from Tx

[@TreesPlease42]

To me the most frustrating thing is how people sanctify hourly work as a way of life, dogmatically defending it like it's what we're meant to do. The altar of the dollar is subsuming religion.

[@alisiahillman]

A debt I'm still paying off was getting the drawing tablet of child-me's dreams. I don't even feel like making art these days so I just owe a lot on a heavy paper weight.

[@Ginerfrid70]

Yes, we want Wisecrack Bible talks. Or just a pinch more theology in general.

[@nallainductions]

Here's mine for the stupid purchase. Last month I bought my dad a ticket to a Seattle Kraken game (we live in Vancouver, Canada) in Seattle. It was around 261.00, but what I didn't realize is that because this is in the States, it is under US currency. Of course Ticketmaster doesn't state that in the purchase, just in the FAQ. So the ticket ended up being around $355.00. $355 for one ticket and it's not even a great seat! Thank God I backed off buying two tickets like I originally planned. That would have been around $750! Friggin Ticketmaster. They must be destroyed.

[@vincentdaniels2596]

I believe debt should be completely forgiven at least once in everyone's life time. I think everyone should have the opportunity to rebuild financially without the burden of their financial past haunting them. Now if you screw up again, which some people are bound to to, then that's it. I also don't believe that school or healthcare should be a part of the free market. Learning is useful for the individual and the individual alone. If that individual wants to then use those skills to benefit the market then that is up to the individual. Education should not be a tool that only benefits the free market. That takes away the option for the individual to decide what they want to do with their lives because they MUST find a way to benefit the market instead of pursing what they want. Healthcare also only benefits the individual receiving it. In a society that needs smart, healthy people to contribute to the free market it is antithetical to then allow those people to be saddled with insurmountable debt and allow their health to deteriorate.

[@Formosa1]

I’m going to go into debt buying the audiobooks of all the sources mentioned in Wisecrack videos. Worth it!

[@gggggggge4379]

Money is debt that society owes you.

[@tc2241]

As someone with no loan debt who’s paid approx. 1/2mil in taxes so far. Idgaf about using my contributions to forgive debt and making tuition free/affordable. I’ve got more important things to worry about. Like how the 30k I put towards healthcare every year seems to cover jack all!

[@kylejohnson6557]

Do banks not already forgive debt? If I remember an episode of Last Week Tonight correctly, banks transfer the debt of those who can’t pay to companies who go after the full amount for a fraction of what was owed, then write off the rest for tax purposes… Anyway, we should just forgive debts and make education free.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Grim but cool new thumpnail guys! Love your art🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤

[@ultramadscientist]

Sexiest way to trash your financial prospects has always been high stakes gambling! Also thanks for quoting the bible here the same hypocrisy you pointed out has been driving me up a wall for years. And to do my part I forgave my friend $7k in debt they owed me in their share of rent

[@Nohandleentered]

I bought a $500 halloween decoration. Dumb to use the card, but the front porch will be a banger in two months!

[@trinidol]

What hapens if we don't show up for (any kind of available) work? Some bad, bad things. And everyday we see someone in that condition as a reminder...

[@chadjones1266]

Yet another reason to keep church and state separate.

[@LoveFreak18]

Craps table = Eric Cartman taking a dump on the teachers desk to get detention.

[@hugojmaia]

The main problem with the student loan debt is people have been pressured with pretty bad financial advice towards higher education. We have a lot of data on the wage prospects of each university course, and people were sent to courses where they never had any hopes of ever repaying the debt or they never managed to get hired in that field for the expected pay due to an oversaturation of graduates in the same field.

[@joshuajohnson9594]

You saying "Craps table" I heard "Crab Staple" and then tried to figure out how crab staple was a gambling term, or how it related to furniture feces. I figured it out though.

[@the1only17]

The problem with forgiveness is doesn’t solve the main issues of knowledge and the understanding of money. I went to high school with kids who got accepted into a high class private school and a cheap local state college(it was their back up) or god forbid a community college. They chose the expensive private schools. They not only wanted the degree, they wanted the prestige, the sexy private dorm, the cool amenities, they put their food, books, clothes, their coffee all on loans. I believe it’s true it’s about choice however how many of us made the right choices at 18? I didn’t even have a real understanding of what credit, loans, and interest and how they could effect my retirement and my future self till I was about 25 and bought my first car. We need to teach high school kids from freshman year to that first year of college about money, how to get it, how to save it and most importantly, how to spend it responsibly. We are in a cycle of not understanding money and debt and it shows what are we at 17 trillion? our parents sucked at money so we suck at money and so on and so on.

[@hayyoraeyo662]

As always, love the Grateful Dead representation (& phish on occasion) from one of my favorite yt channels. NFA!! ❤❤❤

[@DarkLordJmac]

So I didn't go to college. Worked 80 hours a week for 11 years. Saved up about 150k liquid. My best friend has a masters degree in occupational therapy and he has 100k in student debt. I make 80k a year he makes 130k a year. We are the same age both trying to buy a house. Why should he be forgiven with a larger salary and get his house with the white fence before me?

[@karl_margs]

Because it's a systemic issue, not one of personal responsibility

[@DarkLordJmac]

@karl_margs OK, and I rejected the system. I did back-of-the-envelope math and didn't see how it could work. As a blue-collar working class American, I refuse to bail out college privileged elites.

[@jamesbuchanan1913]

If you were smart enough to avoid student debt, don't be dumb enough to get into house debt.

[@DarkLordJmac]

@karl_margs you can reject the system. The cost of rejection is you get a blue collar job thats unsafe and physically demanding. Can I get 50k to put down on a house and you get your loans forgiven?

[@DarkLordJmac]

@@jamesbuchanan1913 I need to live somewhere to house my family

[@cloakedoblivion22]

I bought a feast for crows because I wanna read ASOIAF, aside from that I bought an electric car like a looney

[@DaughterofDiogenes]

I have so much college debt that I doubt I could ever pay it off. I’m one of the foolish poor who really believed that all you needed was a college degree to get ahead. I had no idea you also need to know the right people in the right places to get the right work. I was poor my entire life and the only thing that changed my circumstances was marrying into the middle class. But now I’m in the position of knowing that I will likely fall back into poverty if I leave this marriage. And that is wild as hell. The best thing about being middle class is the connections I’ve been able to make.

[@AndyofCT]

I spent $1831 for a hotel for DragonCon in Atlanta…and I live 17 mins away… but it’s sooooo much more convenient to stay there.

[@tomzimny7408]

The last thing on my credit card that I don't need is a $20 Barbie shirt... the conundrum is, I DO need it

[@RJ_Ehlert]

Imagine vampires telling you that it's your fault for not having enough blood.

[@e55e11e]

4:38 oh me me! I was living in a pretty good situation until I found out that my housemate’s girlfriend (who somehow had the keys to my house) was stealing my money. So my childhood friend reached out to me and said “Hey lemme help you out - what are you paying for rent” and he promised me cheaper. So I took a leap of faith and it turned out it was twice what I was paying just to help him pay his mortgage and he sold the apartment out from under me and left me with a $6500 bill. And now he lives in San Diego working for Dell.

[@chasehatchett4756]

Ok so most of debt is student loans and most of that went to school, books, supplies and equipment ( it was an art school, the bad ones…) but occasionally I would have 5-6k left over after paying tuition and whatnot, and I would go to the Sherlock’s ( bar) across the street from the school, and I would buy rounds for the house. I one time had a bar tab of $3,500😂 oh good times…

[@sergioramos3437]

I need a full fledged series from wisecrack on the philosophical debate for and against capitalism and alternatives proposed

[@oopsididamaterialism8113]

Imagine having the last name Goodchild. You could never know you were in trouble as a kid because when your parents called you by your full name, you’d always think they were praising you.

[@mr.h1262]

That was one of my reoccurring dreams since undergrad, that the bank that held my student loans would have a fire in its server room. Not saying that I lit it, just that it happened

[@AshleyWade]

I have ear plugs, an eye mask, and sleep on a Japanese style futon. The first time I slept that way, I didn't realize just how poorly I'd been sleeping..

[@imaresurcher]

how tf can u sleep with those annoying things in ur ears and around ur face

[@AshleyWade]

@@imaresurcher I have the foam ear plugs. I couldn't use the latex or plastic ones. They click such is louder when it's in your ear and made me very angry lol. You just need the right eye mask and I'm assuming you're not trying to sleep in 90F ish + heat. I have to go without one until it's cooler out. I've tried a bunch of masks. The ones that work like goggles are great. They're soft and don't squish your eyes. As someone who had lasik, on the rare occasions when my mask is askew and my eyes did get mushed, my vision is weird for awhile after I wake up. That's the stuff I use to sleep well. But I also have braces for both barms to ward off carpal tunnel, a hair bonnet (which also is no good in the heat), and compression socks most nights. I'm supposed to have a mouth guard (and likely a cpap). So much armor. Tl;Dr I have a ton of issues lol. foam ear plugs, eye mask thats raised so they don't squish your eyes.

[@stevenblackburn3931]

I didn't hear much talk about bankruptcy and the evolution of restrictions on it in relation to student loan debt. Did I miss that part? Discussing that element fully illustrates the policy and politics of student loan forgiveness and fetishization of student loan debt in the US.