Debunking Religion Makes Things Worse | Christopher-AZ | Talk Heathen 05.27

Talk Heathen 05.27 for July 4, 2021 with Katy Montgomerie and Lloyd Evans.
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Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
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[@christopherbrzezinski256]

I love how he says teen pregnancy is highest among those who aren’t religious.Just a simple Google search and that argument is destroyed.

[@bryanmiller476]

And he doesn’t realize that there’s huge cultures of people who simply have kids after kids all due to their RELIGIOUS beliefs for not using protection or medications to keep from getting pregnant

[@grimmstryke9627]

@@bryanmiller476 "every sperm is sacred"-monty python. 🤣🤣

[@anonymousjohnson976]

And those teen pregnancies are mostly in the southern states.

[@adriangeh6414]

By focusing only on 'crime', he also conveniently ignores how terrorism/political violence/right wing militants and hate groups are Driven by religious beliefs.

[@jonleemusicperson]

@@bryanmiller476 “quiverfull” *shudders*

[@jamespanciotti3960]

I have become much more moral since turning atheist. I am now totally responsible for my own behavior, can't blame it on Satan and can't be forgiven by God.

[@SoRandom31]

Absolutely. And there's no praying for anyone to intervene on your behalf so that you can sit idly by while others suffer.

[@eve_l]

@@SoRandom31 Exactly this.

[@ericscaillet2232]

Effectively your reasoning is the same as the expressed religious one.

[@AlexPBenton]

He hasn’t found a study on religion making people less criminal, he has found a study which shows that people in a community tend to be happy. It could be completely secular, so his point is invalid.

[@rid4474]

I was screaming this at my screen 😂

[@roqsteady5290]

Christianity is a great religion for criminals, since if you accept Jesus as your "saviour", all your wrongdoings are forgiven.

[@carlosabram6030]

And we know that in fact the opposite is true because people who aren't engrossed in the religion or ostracized and worse. So objectively we know this can't be true

[@FionaBranker]

I've been an atheist for 2 years and haven't stolen, defrauded or murdered. Maybe I'm not REALLY an atheist!

[@kevinvanner3065]

I have been a Christian for 1 week.. I just ordered my first two slaves!!! .. Joke

[@mojoe87]

Genuine congratulations on your enlightenment. Welcome to the freedom of your mind!

[@jalalsalehofficial]

@@kevinvanner3065 when is it ever okay to joke about slavery.

[@jalalsalehofficial]

You are human it's wonderful realizing the responsibility

[@pollypockets508]

@@kevinvanner3065 very funny

[@___Chris___]

He forgot to mention that religious people also on average have a lower level of education, which already could explain all the difference there is: What if happiness to a certain degree is just a luxury that comes with naivety? Blessed are the simple-minded...

[@MrBobbymacaroni]

Isn't that what "Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God." means, as in "Bless his heart!"

[@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot]

Christopher is mistaking cause for effect. Some apostates struggle because they are shaking off their religious guilt and are ostracized by their friends and families for doing so.

[@jalalsalehofficial]

My muslim and christian relatives think I worship the devil while I don't believe there is a devil 🤦

[@Skydv2005]

Bingo.

[@jamesonrosen1773]

Oh your community that raised you since a child, your support group, freinds, family, strangers, just did a 180° on the idea that you were a good person? See. Atheism makes you feel bad. "Apostasy is one of the worst things to happen to someone." He's right but for the wrong reasons. Wow.

[@atdynax]

Funny. I am an atheist and i have learned moral values through öearning behaviour and the concept of well being. I have been stealing when i was 9 and 13. I was christian back then. Left church and never stole again. I also don't do any drugs.

[@nunyabusiness979]

I won't hold it against you that you don't do drugs. 😉

[@grimmstryke9627]

No sugar, caffeine, cocoa, alchohol etc or do you mean illegal stuff?

[@atdynax]

@@grimmstryke9627 No, I mean legal stuff. Sugar is important to take as an athlete. Cocoa? Is that a drug?

[@grimmstryke9627]

@@atdynax Ask the chocolate freaks 🤣 But on a serious note ,yes it affects brain chemistry. Theobromine I think is the culprit. "No I mean legal stuff" Sorry I don't understand that in relation to what I said.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

@@grimmstryke9627 Most foods affect brain chemistry. And drinks. Do you consider vitamins "drugs"? Or minerals? Coffee, tea, and alcohol are fairly clear, but chocolate is extremely complex and mostly innocuous (from an allergic chocoholic). This can be a fun subject.

[@pmtoner9852]

Religious people are not more charitable. They give to their Church which they seek benefits from that's not charity, that's paying your dues in a club

[@visforvegan8]

And they may do it claiming that their church does charitable works. Yes, true that, but only after they skim the first 90% in untaxed profits. You'll be hard pressed to find a more profitable business than the sham of religion.

[@PierredeCur]

Like the membership in a MC, that often also do charitable stuff, BTW). :-)

[@adithyarajchoorikat9904]

Yeah, as an indian i am Mad at Mother Theresa . Because she has the largest charity group in the country and still the organisations didn't give good food or medicine to the poor.,, And the effect is billions of dollars transferred to vatican church and results her with nobel for peace. Millions Cheated by the whole religion.

[@joecoolioness6399]

So their church can add more gold to the ceilings. It's crazy how much money is wasted on material things for these so called humanitarian institutions.

[@kyleepratt]

I used to be Mormon. The world learned that my old church has over 100 BILLION DOLLARS. And the fraction that goes to charity from there is not even a rounding error. I used to give them 10% of my money and I and the IRS thought of that as charity. Fuck me.

[@UngoogleableMan]

If a city has 1 million Christians and 1 thousand atheists and everyone donates $10 to charity, we end up with $10 million donated by Christians and a measly $10,000 from atheists. One could look at this statistic and say " Christians donated so much more and so are more generous." That's incorrect. Because literally everyone donates the same amount. What this demonstrates is that there simply ARE MORE Christians than there are atheists. Be very careful about the conclusions you draw.

[@annk.8750]

There's also the question of what the contribution goes to. If it goes toward missions and evangelism, it's just a Christian making another Christian, which makes another contributor.

[@ericwilliams1659]

Or the people that "donate" so a preacher can buy a bigger house or a new plane. Or the money that goes to evil conversation camps. Donating more does not equal more positive effects in the community. Because we all know that new church organ really helped feed the homeless.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

As I like to say: right-handed people are far more generous than left-handed people.

[@Jules_73]

I've been an atheist my entire life and never cheated on a significant other, nor stole. I have always tried my best to help others in every aspect of my life. It's amazing how that works. There's plenty of theists around me that have done horrible things that go against their beliefs.

[@joecoolioness6399]

Some of the worst people I know are the biggest bible thumpers. Not afraid to lie to get what they want, not afraid to hurt others feelings, not afraid to take advantage of every situation to their benefit. MY sis in law and her family are the worst yet they look down on me for not believing what they believe. F em, I don't want to be like you losers!

[@annk.8750]

I found I was much happier when I realized that there was no reason to tiptoe around the whims of an imaginary being. A world of reality is much more satisfying.

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

I found I was much happier when I became certain there's no great overmind watching, window peeping, stalking me every moment.

[@MrKit9]

As a percentage of the population compared to the prison population Atheists comprise the lowest numbers. Period. There is absolutely nothing that religion does that cannot be done in a secular manner. This caller is obtusely disingenuous.

[@hitmanzzz141]

Yeah, statistics proves him wrong. Facts.

[@ericwilliams1659]

They will just argue those are not "real Christians" or say something like "they have a religion but are not religious" It will just be more special pleading. I wonder why he does not explain the people that commit violence in the name of their GOD.

[@RozzieBass]

Trusting community can also be found among artists and in theater.

[@raymondclapsadle9310]

Of the many groups I’ve been involved in during my lifetime, I have never felt as loved and supported as amongst fellow thespians. 🎭 ❤️

[@barkYdarkATFB]

Christopher must be tired from recounting ballots.

[@iancastor69]

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

[@bjbell52]

Dear Christopher : I GOOGLED "are religious countries happier". There are PLENTY of studies that say just the opposite of what you're saying. You're cherry picking.

[@lisaplante6385]

Children are happier when they believe in santa claus until they realize 1) he rewards some children and not others for being "good " 2) many "bad" children get more gifts than the "good " children and 3) children of wealthy families always get more and better gifts regardless of behavior.

[@kissit012]

I never believed in Santa despite my family’s insistence, even through threats. I always thought the “seeing you when you’re sleeping”, and “knowing when you’ve been bad or good, so be good..etc.” bit was very creepy. We also didn’t have a chimney, so a lot of things just didn’t add up. “He” always seemed to get me things I never asked for, and never anything I did. The whole thing fell apart when I compared handwriting of “Santa” to my grandma. I was an extremely skeptical child. 😁

[@joecoolioness6399]

Yes, and now they recommend parents only give cheaper gifts from "santa" and the expensive ones should come from them. Little Johnny boasting about how santa gave him his $500 bicycle makes the kid who got socks from him feel like he did something wrong. I don't even want my kids believing in the santa as a real person.

[@ummmno3871]

I’m just picturing a 3 year old comparing handwriting samples. Oooooook lol

[@sydneybristow5588]

It is the highly secularized countries that tend to fare the best in terms of crime rates, prosperity, equality, freedom, democracy, women’s rights, human rights, educational attainment and life expectancy. (Although there are exceptions, such as Vietnam and China, which have famously poor human rights records.) And those nations with the highest rates of religiosity tend to be the most problem-ridden in terms of high violent crime rates, high infant mortality rates, high poverty rates and high rates of corruption. This is an irrefutable global fact. Another point is the crime that is advocated in many bibles or religious books. To try to say religious people somehow are less likely to do crime is ludicrous.

[@joecoolioness6399]

You nailed it. I do understand most religious people are decent, but without religion there would not be the extremists that you see causing problems in the more religious societies.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

Let's name some of the most secular countries in the world: Sweden, UK, Germany, Japan, Canada, Denmark, France. All these countries have an HDI of at least 0.9. C O I N C I D E N C E ?

[@sydneybristow5588]

@@ApatheticFish3667 Exactly. 0.9 is the highest ranking thus far which definitely denotes those countries' high ratings.

[@crispyblack8779]

If the world is only 6,000 years old, then how are there religions that have been around for “tens of thousands of years”?

[@MrCanis4]

Didn't he just destroy his own religion?

[@donbacker9883]

LOGIC IS OF DA DEBBLE

[@LB-yg2br]

I do applaud you for not pointing out that dumb people tend to be happier, and dumb people are also more susceptible to magical thinking

[@MichaelDeHaven]

Even if true it doesn't justify building society on a lie, no matter how noble. Especially if we already know that lie is easily disproven in the modern world. Edit: Ok, Katy brought that up later in the call. Edit2: So he's basically wants to use something like Emile Durkheim's definition of religion. OK fine. *But* then he wants to insist that it needs God or the supernatural. Not OK.

[@mrhyde7600]

I agree. But that wasn't Chris' point ;)

[@nelsoncherrier3855]

"The research shows theistic communities are happier. I know because my preacher told me."

[@mofobecks]

A couple things: 1, none of what he said has any relevance to the truth of the religion/religions that apparently give me a better life. 2, the whole 99% of jail population being theist thing

[@mofobecks]

@@beccatee66 I’m sure I saw somewhere that less than 1% of the prison population was atheist. Obviously numbers are skewed slightly because apparently it sounds better at parole hearings to say a god has saved you and you’ve seen the light and you’ll be good now. Which is bullshit basically!

[@mofobecks]

@@beccatee66 like I said, I’m sure I saw it somewhere but I’ve no idea where

[@mofobecks]

@@beccatee66 🤷‍♂️

[@samuelschick8813]

First things parents teach their children: 1.) In snow country: " Don't eat yellow snow." 2.) In Catholic countries: " Don't bend over in front of the priests."

[@joecoolioness6399]

Ouch! Sad that it is true.

[@evilmcelroy1144]

The tiara is a nice touch!

[@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot]

I'm a sociologist and this guy is shoveling complete BS. He's cherry picking studies and phrases as Katie demonstrated so effectively.

[@crispyblack8779]

It’s more likely fear of hell or being shunned by their peers, and not the worship of a particular god, that makes them want to behave a certain way. To get kids to behave, we threaten them with punishment way more often than reward. We also punish criminals severely to make an example of them to discourage other crimes. It has very little to do with a deity and everything to do with eternal damnation.

[@grantmartyn8877]

Notice the caller did not say exactly the name of any study? Notice he never named a specific study? Other than him saying to google "Pew Research" this guy has nothing.

[@nathanjora7627]

He said to google a pew research from 2019 and specified which, that’s honestly more than what the hosts did in terms of giving references, surprisingly, and it was specific enough that one of the host could find it.

[@karsten69]

Christopher believes that 20 countries is impressive for a study, it most certainly is not. 20 countries are not even enough to cover Europe, much less the Middle East and/or Africa, who are among the most religious countries in the world and miserable.

[@tinysmawz6053]

The only difference between a cult and a religion is the level of success they have

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

More data shows that community, not religious beliefs is what provides the health/happiness benefits, not the mystical beliefs themselves.

[@douglasthomashayden2566]

7:40 -ish Katie with the FACTS, conclusions from Chris' cited study. Chris is about to blow his stack, I'm guessing.

[@DANISEVIL]

The best and easiest way to get good people to do bad things is religion

[@jamesfbeveridge8694]

The research paper "Cultural Evolution Shifts the Source of Happiness from Religion to Subjective Freedom" by Michael Minkov, Christian Welzel & Michael Schachner, in the abstract on Springer Link states, "Rising individualism and emancipative values, as an outcome of modernization, diminish the importance of religious faith for people’s happiness, while increasing the importance of subjective freedom. We conclude that the dominant emancipatory direction of cultural evolution favors freedom over religion." This is rather straightforward and easily understood. Christopher from Arizona was playing you.

[@overlycaffeinatedsquirrel779]

Yea, it's hard to believe it's just confirmation bias. When it's well proven secular countries/areas tend to fare better than the more religious on a vast host of measures, including homicide and violent crime rates, poverty rates, obesity and diabetes rates, child abuse rates, educational attainment levels, income levels, unemployment rates, rates of sexually transmitted diseases and teen pregnancy, etc. You name it: On nearly every sociological measure of well-being, you’re most likely to find the more secular with the lowest levels of faith in God and the lowest rates of church attendance faring the best and the most religious states with the highest levels of faith in God and rates of church attendance faring the worst.

[@WH40kC]

My 16 yr. old has already debunked this his sophomore AP research project was literally on the effects of the decline of religion. He looked at the same studies this guy is. Less religious countries were happier, had less poverty, had longer life spans, had lower crime, had better Healthcare systems. Virtually every study points to a secular society as being generally better. Granted loss of religion isn't the only factor. And you honestly can't go that is the sole X factor, but it played a role.

[@blatherskite3009]

13:50 I'd love to know what religions he thinks have been around for tens (plural!) of thousands of years. Certainly not the one that he follows.

[@fuckyoualphabet]

Katy fucking killed it here.

[@elder999666]

Japan, Shinto dose not have classic afterlife, you could call them more atheist group than theist, one of the lowest crime rate. There destroyed this dude's study.

[@elder999666]

@mike mcmike just like it's entirely possible that that study has this same exact flaw, or are you proposing that homogeneous culture gives you the best morality (btw I don't know what you mean by homogeneous culture)?

[@elder999666]

@mike mcmike I understand that, but in my opinion even similar ones have a ton of other factors

[@tomi-Q]

Nordic countries are also some of the safest countries, except Sweden, they have some problems. They also happen to be very much secular.

[@sallypickett2233]

I don't need religion to be happy... I just need an audio loop of Lloyd saying "worship smurfs" 😅

[@warpdriveby]

In the Pew study referred to there is a BIG insert, almost a disclaimer. Interestingly enough, it says that after examining the data for concordances, one huge area stood out: People who were religious AND who's place of worship/faith increased and enhanced the frequency and quality were REPORTED being "happier. It's also really important to remember this is an amassing of the answers to subjective questions on intangible experiences. It's like crime statistics we always hear are based on the incidents that get reported and compiled, rather than an attempt to estimate the number of times people are breaking laws right?

[@rid4474]

I would love it if these two had a podcast- awesome perspectives and they both sound like voice actors! 😂

[@MrBobbymacaroni]

Confusing community with religion.

[@be8420]

8:20 I wish they had drilled him about the apostate claim. It seems obvious to me that the reason for the negative effects on an individual is not the lack of religion, but the horrible treatment former friends and family levy against the apostate.

[@bellezavudd]

His argument should at least start honest ,so stated as ; "Apostasy isn't good for everyone because some people just cant handle life without an imaginary super-crutch. And will run back to another crutch like drugs."

[@ajclements4627]

Although lot of literature has been produced highlighting the strengths and benefits of religion, many have associated the following problems with religion: conflict with science, curtailing freedoms, delusion, claims of having the exclusive truth, fear of punishment, feeling guilt, immutability, instilling fear… Then there’s that whole loving God “believe in me or burn” thing..

[@Balasca]

Loving Katy's tiara.

[@kcleung7243]

Sure, let's only take a look at that "experiment" by Pew Research Center. Some follow ups immediately come to mind: 1. That's quite disingenuous to call that "experiment". It is not like they have artificially set up any scenario or controls. It is better described as a study or survey. 2. They only asked about self-confessed "active-religiosity", without specifying which religion the targets believe in. So actively-religious JW, Mormon and Scientology do count for making you happier by this study. 3. Completely left out Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist countries. Most important of all, correlation doesn't equal causation. That's the Achilles's Heel of a study through questionnaire. You need other methods to investigate / cross examine why the findings are so. For example, would you really be surprised that apostates on average suffer more mental hardship when it is quite obvious that many religions shun, prosecute or kill them?

[@defenestratefalsehoods]

Part of the conversation I'm getting is forget the fact that it is not true but pick the religion that makes the most people happy.

[@stephenpack2202]

since leaving religion i am a more moral and compassionate person!!!

[@ernestmac13]

I have experienced personally how individuals like this caller will attribute the morality of secular individuals to God, even insisting the secular person is a believer in God even if they don't know it or believe it. This is what I faced by many Christians I knew after donating a kidney to my cousin in 2000. At this time, there was also a guest on a radio show who atributed the low crime rate and high morality in Japan to the Japanese people living a "Christian lifestyle".

[@tedgrant2]

People who lived in concentration camps under the Nazis were generally well behaved. It therefore follows that the government should put us all in similar concentration camps.

[@tedgrant2]

That reminds me, I must buy a new belt.

[@darksoul479]

The so-called benefits of religion are irrelevant. I care about truth.

[@michaelbaker7499]

If it’s about the social/group/network/society element I have one word: scouts.

[@SC-zq6cu]

Christopher, maybe try to look at what the statistics actually say instead of lying for once.

[@cps_Zen_Run]

Very few atheists in prison even after adjusting for number of atheists in general.

[@peteralleyman1388]

Landing an airplane into a skyscraper instead of on a runway makes some people happier too. A lot of people.

[@marciomaia4020]

This guy obviously hasn't been to Brazil.

[@douglasthomashayden2566]

8:30 -ish Chris is still claiming that religion is the ONLY way to have mutually supportive community....the jackass. He also doesn't seem to understand why 'apostasy' is so tough. It's risking loss of one's entire community of supports merely for being honest about not believing religion sans evidence, and the *threat* of shunning is very real.

[@doneestoner9945]

Hey everyone - read the book, Society Without God, by Phil Zuckerman. Debunks everything that caller is saying.

[@adamstrange7884]

Never needed a God or church to find out right and wrong and to be a law abiding citizen, and the crazy people have always been in the churches, this is from experience and observations.

[@anvb5a1]

If it's just about participating in group activity, i mean.... join a chess club or something, no prophet or other bullshit attached! \o/

[@camcam8995]

It’s so weird it’s almost like banishing people from their communities and family’s that would make people turn to drugs or crime

[@camcam8995]

It’s like if I shot up a bunch of churches and then gave you a study that says going to church leads to more death😂

[@Jasper_the_Cat]

Katy is soooo good. She set it up perfectly. 👏👏👏👏👏

[@robhaskins]

Guy appeals to study, leaves out some of the analysis. Katy reads the analysis. Guy says "I'm not just basing it on one study." I prefer the theists who don't try to lecture us with "studies." The fundamental core of all theistic religions I know is the faith that the religion is more real and lasting than worldly things. So please, don't pretend to be gotcha-ing me with science.

[@awkrewen]

A key part of these studies he is failing to mention is the ostracizing that oftens occurs when someone leaves a religion and the negative impacts that causes.

[@EpicWinNoob]

"I mean it could be an issue of non religious people being punished by religious people societally, making it harder for them to exist, especially in heavily religious places" "Okay but like, I saw a study about hyper religious jews and non religious jews in the same community and the non religious ones were worse so I'm not pulling these numbers out of my butt" I so wanted to say back to him "Yes, exactly, interesting how the non religious people within the pressure of highly religious people were less well off. It's almost like I said that is a possible problem with this data."

[@derwolf9670]

Some of the world's lowest crime rates are seen in countries like Denmark, Norway or Japan. They are also among the most secular countries on the planet... Just compare the USA and Japan. Which country has a lower crime rate, Christopher?

[@rs49henry]

The percentage of non religious people in the US prison system is 0.07%......but please continue.

[@PierredeCur]

Just compare a serie of very religious and very little religious countries: Spain, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and the scandinavian countries versus Iran, Sudan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Daesch... :-)

[@Quinn37]

Even if Christopher were correct about the study and his conclusion, that does nothing to prove the truth of the god hypothesis. Over the last few years, it's become much more common to argue for the utility of religion versus the truth of it. It appears to me that theists are slowly surrending the truth claim.

[@TheLoveSignGuy]

How about just being good or goodness sake?

[@sigmaoctantis1892]

The independent research shows that there is a correlation between the level of religiosity in a society and social dysfunction. One need only compare the Scandinavian countries, as Lloyd pointed out, to the USA to see this effect in action.

[@hectormacedo4822]

This was a good talk. It makes believers think. Why not just make a new religion and have everyone follow it? Why must it be a pre-existing one?

[@Kilotip1]

When you’re a scientist and find the pew, “article…” garbage…

[@62wyo]

This is so f****** funny. I live in an area where there's a Christian counseling center and they have issues of being truthful in their building! I find this title to this show ironically the video yet maybe I'll change My viewpoint when it's done. He said it it's a social bond and that's very true It is a social bond but it's not religion it's a social bond

[@TenFalconsMusic]

"I have a study that aligns with my views." So do flat earthers, but... MAKE AMERICA GREAT BRITAIN AGAIN.

[@werriboy55]

I understand things have been a rough since Brexit but why would you want to be involved in the shit fight that's passes for political thought over here. Careful what you wish for in other words. Love the sentiment.

[@joulian]

Well this is interesting, he just said (and kept saying) that the reason that religious people are happier is because they have a tendency to stick together and a higher tendency to help each other, and then ignores when they told him that an atheist in the middle of a religious community has a higher chance of being shunned and be set apart precisely because of the religious mob mentality. It is clear that muslim people discriminate christians as much as christians discriminate the sole muslim and/or jew in the basis of group identity.

[@jeffjokerdude1]

Looked up the study, it's based purely on the opinion of those who responded. It's asking the person, in terms of their religious affiliation, if they are Active, Inactive, or Unaffiliated. Then asking them if they think they are happy, if they are members of a non-religious organization, if they think they are healthy, and so on. It's just asked their opinions on their life and circumstances. The guy who ran the study wrote an article and said there is no causal link with his study, and a much larger and in-depth study would have to occur across as many nations as possible to get a better answer. This dude's misrepresenting this study big time.

[@pr6189]

Dude doesn’t seem to understand that he points out why apostates have a less happy life. Apostasy is to be shunned by the followers, hence a less happy life

[@dalecs47]

My experience with "people of faith" is that they are far less moral, far less honest becasue of their religion seems to teach them that they can tell lies, cheat, steal, hurt others in all sorts of ways and that they will never be held accountable as long as they put their hands together and say "I love you Jesus." According to their religion Hell is reserved for those who do not believe, even if they are good people. And the believers get Heaven even if they are very bad.

[@adriansmith3427]

Could this man please explain how the Mafia exists?

[@ericwilliams1659]

He will just true scotsman or special pleading

[@LordPhoenix140]

The top safest and happiest countries are also the least religious.

[@samcero]

A cult doesn't have to be a different religion. It can still be a Christian Protestant religion that is ran like a cult.

[@mads2357]

Might the reason that apostasy is damaging have something to do with those religious groups punishing such thoughts and distancing themselves ftom those people? I'd wish he'd looked into that.

[@marklacasse3988]

So lies seem to sooth the savage beast and all a person has to do is believe in them and be happy.

[@jeupshaw]

Katy is Brilliant!

[@jalalsalehofficial]

I am agnostic. It is not the lazy way out of things it is the hardest way actually. I am actively trying to find a reason to believe there is one or many divine beings who created this observable universe. As a child being fully aware of how my muslim fath treats thrives in some countries by cutting their hands had 0 effect on me becoming cleptomanic I stole shit I did not need until I was around 14 💀 never once caught. As an adult I know wrong. I know how to guide myself towards more "right" I am currently homeless but even before that I often did work for the homeless in my town. Every day that I am able to make money I share what I can time energy and money. I have seen small changes between the way some of the ex drug abusers are now trying to work and choosing to accept more help and recourses . I am inspired by the strength of humanity, religion however weakens the mind and forces indoctrination.we should be actively saving this planet to ensure the survival of this species for many another 100 years.

[@jeffczermanski2993]

He debunked himself. He said it doesn't have to do with the religiosity of the group, it depends on how tight the group is and that religions are just good at making tight groups. He really doesn't even know what he said (and apparently can't read the study he was citing).

[@mikepanick468]

PEW is a religious research outfit.

[@jorgerodriguez3392]

What about the mas Graves found in canada

[@oldmanaz.6811]

My gaming community is a set of good folks, they support one another and lift each other up. Some are religious I'm sure but that has no place in our game so we don't bring it up. We are just having a good time and ain't hurting anyone. Secular is not atheist.

[@jonsmith7659]

American prisons are overwhelmingly filled with religious people.

[@afroatheist-isnowafroantit6154]

I am tired of the religious, and racists coming out of Arizona.

[@blueredingreen]

Participation in religious communities may be correlated with happiness, but a huge contributing factor there is the community (which is not specific to religion, but religion has claimed ownership over many forms of community). Another factor is that religion has a strong majority in most places and they don't treat people outside of that well. It's bad science to conclude that religion is the main factor there. Also, apostasy commonly involves realising that everyone around you have lied to you for your entire life, and it often involves being ostracised and losing relationships (or far worse). Weird to conclude from that that we should keep lying to people, instead of, you know, not doing that, and being nicer to people who've left religion. Furthermore, so what? If your house is on fire, you may be less happy knowing that, but if you know that, then you can actually try to do something about it. Also, what if people believe they're doing a good thing by throwing other people off of cliffs - should we make them less happy by challenging that? Which is to say: knowing what's actually true provides huge long-term benefits to oneself and one's community, even if you aren't as happy in the short term from having gained that knowledge.

[@lohkie2__3]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Lloyd's voice is nice

[@dantheman2907]

If your happiness is based solely on a lie that you've been convinced of, what happens if you find out the truth? Do you cling perilously to the lie in an attempt to maintain that happiness, or does it all just fall apart as you question the truth of everything you previously believed? It's probably best to start with the truth. It's far easier to maintain.

[@CronoXpono]

I used to wonder why Lloyd would get upset at the insinuation but yeah, it IS bullshit to say that you HAVE to be religious to be happy OR that the world is gonna crash because they’re not religious. 🤦‍♂️

[@grantwing4942]

So its the community bonding and brotherhood that makes a person moral. So that means the mafia and bikie gangs are moral? OK.....

[@nathanjora7627]

Well it certainly help, it’s easier on average to fall into a life of crime if you have no one around to help you find better ways or help you period ^^

[@grantwing4942]

@@nathanjora7627 its about morality, not survivability.

[@nathanjora7627]

@@grantwing4942 Yeah, I understood, I'm telling you that it's easier to be moral, and to stay moral, when you're part of a morality that ensures that and makes it easier for you to stay moral by giving you all kinds of incentives for being moral, as well as easy alternatives in place of immoral actions if ever life became harsh enough for you to have a realistic need to commit immoral actions.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

how people can claim that the bible, and especially christianity, can provide moral guidance, when whatever heinous crime you might commit, rape, theft, killing, even genocide, if you accept jesus you get forgiven and a hall pass to heaven? sorry, moral values can't be derived from "i'm gonna punish you for eternity, well, i don't really mean that".

[@chriskelly3481]

The inverse correlation between religiosity and societal health is stark and well known. Essentially, the more religious a society, the crapper it is. 🤷🏼‍♂️