Debunking Sugar Claims: What Dr. Lustig Got Wrong On The Huberman Podcast

[@MikeFave]

It was great riffing on Fructose together Paul! Thanks for having me on, looking forward to collaborating again in the future 👍

[@erikahuxley]

Thank you. I enjoyed the episode immensely. It was a confirmation of what I know from intuition and listening to other nutritionists over the years, but you explained it with clarity in scientific term.

[@Paulsaladinomd]

My pleasure man! Thanks for coming on the podcast 🙏

[@evanmcintosh6328]

This guy has quite the podcast schedule. Great job you two!

[@orpheus33]

Thank you, this was great to listen to

[@jberts3141]

Did I understand this correctly? A carnivore diet will lead to insulin resistance from fatty acids? Insulin resistance is not from a cell saying i can not store any more energy or I will die therfore resistance? And if that is what you're saying then how did our ancestors who only had access to meat not become insulin resistant?

[@jenavevesnowolf13]

I love all the nuances you provide in your discussions. Thanks for sharing with us.

[@Primal.Adapted]

DR Paul ,last year i lost 70lbs using keto+IF from February to august. I transitioned over to animal based in September and i have not gained any additional weight. In fact i starting hitting the gym 1 or 2 times a week and ive put on some muscle mass very quickly. I still fast atleast 18hr a day while being animal based . I add fruit in almost every day, i eat a table spoon of honey before bed nearly every night and i sleep like a baby. I eat alot of fermented foods like raw cheese, pickles, yogurt, sourdough bread , cottage cheese and ive never felt better ! Thank you for posting

[@BloodGangBrazy]

Carbohydrates are unnecessary, toxic, and inflammatory in the human diet. You should eat only one meal a day for optimal results on a ketogenic diet.

[@gammypage]

Tablespoon of honey, why?? It's pure sugar

[@gammypage]

Tablespoon of honey, why?? It's pure sugar

[@lindyhouston4809]

Honey is a good ph balancer in your mouth.

[@razvanmierla1259]

Honey its eaten by the jar not by the tablespoon lolol

[@angelamason217]

Fascinating stuff! Love Mike and Jay!!

[@HoNow222]

Huberman lately is the worst podcast. Cannot listen to him anymore. Too sure and too knowledgeable about freaking everything, because he "found a paper by a friend of his about it", and only the paper that sustain his ideas, but its user base is now too big for doing this cmon. Also, the way he lowkey promotes the sh*t out of certain supplements? That are backed by literally no one? Terrible stuff

[@pano6391]

Agreed

[@Primetime_dads]

Yea he sucks man, I stopped listening to him after the first 2 vids hahahaha

[@geraldtaylor189]

Thanks paul for the podcast, I am however more confused now that before on what is the proper human diet. I think the only way my confusion will be addressed is to have Dr.Lustig on your podcast and thankyou for inviting him to come on. I will be anxiously anticipating that podcast. Should be epic.

[@body.mind.spirit.health]

I think the proper human diet is meat based, than you test for yourself how you feel adding some specific foods, like Paul Saladino did, some feel better pure carnivore, some feel better adding fruits, some are more ketovore keeping some vegetables, it can also depends on the phase of your life, if you are more or less active etc. I don't see it like a rigid thing, follow basic rules, eat real food, mostly meat and fat, listen to your body, and adjust accordingly

[@cccmmm13]

Wish you got to interview Dr. Peat RIP

[@WildflowerChristian]

Hi Dr. Paul... I love your videos. I have a huge admiration crush on you! I started out in nursing many years ago and continued to study the body and how it works even after I moved away from nursing as a profession. I knew when I first heard you that you are correct and that carnivore alone is not the best human diet. I studied for several months before deciding to work away from destructive eating habits to learn how to properly eat for my body. I did elimination at first then began to learn what works for me and what doesn't. Vegetables were the center of my diet. Once I took them away for 30 days I realized how much they were messing up my gut and hormones. My body cued me each month what to take away and what it wanted me to eat. I listened. It has been a year now and although I am still working some things out... for the most part it is simple. I have the energy and vitality I need to do all that I want to do now. Fatigue and poor health stopped me from pursuing my goals and dreams. I am a licensed massage therapist specializing in hot stone therapies by trade, but it is time for me to transition into new things. I needed the energy in both my body and mind to do this. A few months ago I got started publishing my books. I am about to start working on photography for my books as well. In the past I made short films and recorded some songs. I love the arts even though I also have a scientific mind. My degree is in the arts. My teachers always called me an enigma of the scientific mixed with the deep creativity of the arts. This is actually true... I love the arts, but I also love whole health and understanding how the human body works optimally. One topic I have not seen a lot of discussion about is hormones and menopause from a been there done that perspective. It was very obvious that vegetables threw me into early menopause and messed up my hormones so badly that my bones ached most of the time. My gut health was a mess... therefore my immune system was not able to perform as it should. Meat, meat fat, fruit, honey and eggs took me off the bio identical hormone replacement in 3 months. I have not eaten vegetables in a year. It had a huge effect in helping to clear up gut and hormone imbalance. There was no doubt that the vegetables were the catalyst for the disaster that took place in my body. I have more energy now than when I was in my twenties, my hormones are in balance and my mind is clear. I only need to eat two meals a day and a cheese snack before bed. I used to be so hypoglycemic that I had to eat every two hours from the time I got up until bed time. My thyroid was a mess. My body temperature was always off. People really need to be shown the truth. It is huge. If you ever want to talk with me about this I would be happy to give you my input and answer any questions I can for you. You can find my books to date on Amazon by typing my full name into the search bar. Heidi Lynn Borden. I have several books out on the market to date of various kinds. I write, design and construct my books. My son is my illustrator. My creativity has definitely been enhanced by the change in eating and a clear mind. Thank you for all that you are doing Dr. Paul! You are greatly appreciated! Many blessings to you! Heidi Lynn

[@srmitch9260]

So glad to see how Paul has ditched the low carb / Keto / meat only carnivore diet. He managed to peel back the layer and understand that carbohydrates are not inherently problematic. Thanks Paul. Great video.

[@MrBearyMcBearface]

Theyre not unless you have bad insulin resistance. I was able to mostly reduce mine just stopping soda.

[@kathleenking47]

​@@MrBearyMcBearfacemodern soda, has HFCS in it. Cane sugar, isn't that bad

[@Islamisthecultofsin]

@@kathleenking47 It's just as bad.

[@slimbrady6004]

I always appreciate when experts invite other people on their platform because they disagree. It results in a great conversation, and I always walk away with new knowledges

[@johnburn872]

Paul you have to get Dr. Lustig on your podcast

[@JoylieC]

Wonderful discussion! Thanks to you both. 🎉

[@SteveMark-v9w]

Hey Paul - this is great! Thank you so much for doing this podcast - it's nice to have a fact check on Dr. Lustig. My take here is that he's studying the 90% of the people who are not healthy, but attributing the findings to apply to people in general. Similar to how I just heard on DeLauer's podcast that sugar's bad effects were only present in a situation where there were also trans fats in the diet. Really great stuff, to dig deep enough to get more complete answers on things, Mike. Thanks.

[@binathere2574]

DeLauer sometimes has inaccurate information. I stopped watching his channel.

[@donaldgordon6452]

Lustig the best at what he does.paul Saladino should refund everyone who bought his carnivore diet book.now he question everyone establish fact .too much sugar and fructose is bad you cannot use your own experience to challenge years of experience.what you think does not matter it’s what the research shows.

[@sophie4636]

Prof Lustig actually does his studies on rats and children, because he's a paediatrician. He doesn't do population studies or studies on adults.

[@mcut1217]

This podcast was great! I loved every minute of it!

[@erikahuxley]

@@GeneRosellini the video was released yesterday but was taken down and just came back up.

[@ikaikaokalanib5148]

Sugar and even alternative sugar is problematic for me as it keeps me hungry all day, never feeling satiated. However, if I consume fruits I have the complete opposite effect, I feel full and I satisfy my sweet tooth.

[@Paulsaladinomd]

That's great to hear. Thanks for sharing!

[@babyreps365]

That all day hunger is why I intermittent fast. Don't start eating until supper time

[@kathleenking47]

A little xylitol also helps Especially after eating something..it neutralizes acid in mouth However, keep away from Dogs and cats

[@SaturnReturns]

Great talk! I wish more people would wake up to the fact that carbs are good. Carnivore demolished my workout quality and when I started adding in sugars again I felt amazing. Just cut out the seed oils and play around with your carb sources. That's all people really need to do.

[@tropicaoptica]

YES!!

[@asdf1991asdf]

How many carbs do you have per day?

[@SaturnReturns]

@@asdf1991asdf 300-400 on average normally. I'm a walking mailman and then I lift weights everyday so my energy needs are high.

[@boboallin]

@@SaturnReturnssame 250-300ish actually got a bit leaner when I upped the carbs despite tracking by weight macros and calories and keeping activity the same. Really stunned at how wrong I was avoiding carbs and sugar for so long. I love orange juice, apples and honey

[@BloodGangBrazy]

Carbohydrates are unnecessary, toxic, and inflammatory in the human diet. You should eat only one meal a day for optimal results on a ketogenic diet.

[@hyperTorless]

Based Mike ! His podcast with Jay Feldman is amazing!

[@sophie4636]

It really is amazing, isn't it?

[@Cardio305]

Wait so for a pre diabetic/ borderline type 2 diabetic low fat high carb diet is optimal? What if your blood sugar numbers are still spiking too high?

[@lf7065]

It is NOT good! That's nonsense.

[@Cardio305]

@@lf7065 yeah, that’s what I thought myself.

[@JavelinaSteve]

That is not what they are saying. A normal amount of saturated fat and some carbs is what z Mike is saying, Paul would probably not recommend as much carbs, but he is letting Mike go either way his ideas here.

[@Amaraticando]

high starch for the diabetic, not high sugar. There's a difference and, in this case, a little bit o fiber would be better for GI issues.

[@aspiresk8boarding]

Fat is part of what competes with glucose absorption. And stress hormones are what increase fat in the blood. Eating low carb increases fat in the blood and worsens insulin sensitivity. If someone is very overweight they’ll already have a lot of fat in the blood

[@jeffrey4577]

Mike sounds amazingly adept ❤

[@4DT44]

How does the carbohydrate context change for someone with cancer?

[@David-R.]

Sugar is poison, carbs (sugar eventually) are poison. Don't ever believe that sugar (even from honey) is ever a good thing for you. If you want to expedite your cancer, eat carbs and sugar.

[@whatup6557]

This is an excellent question. My dad recently died of cancer but through the last year of his illness, his doctors advised him to stay away from all CARBS entirely, and it always made me wonder if they really understood the nuance between high fructose corn syrup and apples. What made me skeptical is that they would also tell him to stay away from dairy, which made me wonder if they actually weighed to nuances of pasture raised va great value dairy

[@ad-ross]

NOOO WAY! I never thought I'd see Mike Fave talking to Pauly Salads! This is great! I combine fructose & sucrose with meals throughout the day and save my starches for dinner with an orange to softly spike insulin and have a great night sleep. Paul is definitely in the right direction. Final Boss = DANNY RODDY!

[@BloodGangBrazy]

Carbohydrates are unnecessary, toxic, and inflammatory in the human diet. You should eat only one meal a day for optimal results on a ketogenic diet.

[@erikhancock98569]

Danny won't be coming on this podcast and talk nutrients until Paul starts talking about aspirins benefits.

[@tonyinfinity]

"Pauly Salads"? That's stupid, did you make that up because I've never seen anyone call him that? Also who gave you the right to using the Yin-Yang? I copyrighted that.

[@ad-ross]

@@tonyinfinity Pauly Salads is a nickname used in the Ray Peat community RESPECTFULLY. I don't believe you can copyright the Yin-Yang sign. lol

[@erikRR]

I just listened to the other podcast you are speaking of and the Dr. actually said fruit was ok to eat

[@curbscrape8343]

It's for the hits baby!

[@Joy80JJ]

This interview is one of your best. I have been afraid of sugar & Dr Lustig for years. Learned alot from this.

[@edgewound]

Obesity is a 20th century phenomenon. Why is that? Processed food and added sugar. Dr. Lustig is not to be ignored.

[@alechershman8322]

~24:00 Lustig's perspective is not anti-fruit. He explains as much in the Huberman segment, in fact.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

He is rather moderate in his dietary views, not advocating any specific diet. He is entire focus is tightly on what is shown in research.

[@kathleenking47]

No, he's not Especially soluble fiber I'm also wondering When, people will say, Too much sunscreen is bad🤔 Kids need vitamin D3 From sun..but not as much at high noon

[@zenamatthews9380]

They're triggered

[@PeggyPMay]

This was so awesome !

[@SarahGrant-r5i]

Thanks for this helpful podcast. I don’t use much granulated sugar, except for 2tsp of cane sugar added in my coffee each day. I thought it’s probably not very healthy, but it bring me more joy. Otherwise, I cook everything from scratch with quality ingredients. Lots of meat, eggs, fresh fruits and vegetables. No other processed junk. Exercise a lot. Still feel great and in my best shape after having my 2nd baby. I agree a bit of sugar used intentionally is not the cause of health problems we see.

[@BadWolf-bw6ik]

This was a pretty good discussion and informative.

[@EdV978]

Great interview Mike and Paul

[@fabsadami]

If you read Lustig’s books, he is actually quite specific that it s PROCESSED, refined sugar that is the problem, not sugar inside the food matrix. Processed food is his key message and on that i believe, you agree.

[@curbscrape8343]

Excellent observation - no doubt dismissed by the Salad cult...

[@johnnyblackrants7625]

White refined sugar is completely fine if youre eating plenty of nutrient dense animal foods with it. In fact, for people (like me) who are allergic to most carbs, white sugar is optimal.

[@Amaraticando]

there're plenty of youtube videos with Lustig bashing fructose, regardless of source and context.

[@sadienewman33]

Yes bc processed foods contain seed oils & other toxins/chemicals etc! That is what messes up the body function not sugars 🙄 When these so called experts tell the truth ( which they won’t ) you can sort yourself out. Seed oils & toxins & ( chemicals in our food & water & environment etc ) go hand in hand with the rise in metabolic disease & body disfunction.

[@zenamatthews9380]

If you listen to the interview they're responding to, he says multiple times that fruit is okay because of fiber. ​@@Amaraticando

[@cordellsenior9935]

I'm grateful to have encountered this particular podcast. I've heard this Dr. Llustig since I started Youtubing around 2015. I have always respected him, but I always bothered by his tonality. He always delivers his messaging with generous doses of condescending anger. He delivers it in way that I was never able to buy it all. He presents lots of authoritative claims and uses extreme metaphors to get his snide point across. A brilliant man, I can see, but nobody I know of hates sugar more. (He equates it to Agent Orange or Napalm). Nice to see and hear counterclaims in the most gentlemanly way.

[@zenamatthews9380]

He's totally okay with fruit because of fiber.... All carnivores hate sugar more lol

[@Inhale8Exhale8]

What are your thoughts on organic unsulphured blackstrap molasses?

[@JJ-kv1yi]

I think they specifically talked about the pure sugar - cane sugar, hfcs and fruit juice. They do recommend fruit consumption. I think all of you are in great agreement.

[@kathleenking47]

I think HFCS could be the culprit in kids becoming obese.. Boomers ate lots of sugar, but we were OUTSIDE especially on weekends. Never got too obese

[@VaughnMalecki]

It's the thyroid and glucose metabolism that gets messed up. We all know someone who drinks pop regularly and stays thin.

[@zenamatthews9380]

Cognitive dissonance. They're strawmanning him because he's talking shit about fructose.

[@jamesalles139]

I'm surfing the web all day long, does that count for being active? BTW 30:52 fructose is a source of ATP? my understanding it is a drain, ATP ==> ADP Aand, fructose gets converted into what? glucose? fat?

[@aspiresk8boarding]

The brain uses a lot of glucose so yes computer time burns a lot. And yes fructose is most likely converted to glucose and used as energy or stored as liver glycogen. De novo lipogenesis is more common when there’s liver disfunction

[@jamesalles139]

@@aspiresk8boarding thanks for the pass!

[@machia7790]

I've read the study put up by MF on juice. Just 20 Emirati university women students. 7 of them we "healthy obese", whatever that means? They were fed one juice drink on three random days. That's it! Whatever else did they eat? Did they exercise? Were any on medication? Also, doesn't fruit juice get metabolized by the liver?

[@HeatherClark-f5b]

It is wonderful to hear advice that is based on cold hard scientific facts.

[@petebowen9031]

25 minutes into the interview and I think you guys are hitting THE most important aspect of a proper human diet: ALL HUMANS ARE NOT IDENTICAL!!! There are slight variations in every one of us that allow us to tolerate and thrive on some foods but can be detrimental to others. Some day, we will be able to test the individuality of our makeup and prescribe the optimal diet for that individual (and even then, we all change over time!!). Can’t wait to hear the rest of the interview!

[@TeyaSkae]

@petebowen9031 we already have this vast data. 1/ Hair Mineral analysis shows the oxidation. ANS Autonomic Nervous System 10 metabolic types explain genetic variation in great details with different Macros, micros and how minerals affect our whole nervous system. 3. Dr George Watson PhD Nutrition and your Mind, The psychochemical response. All 3 sources prove we are biochemically unique which is why some carnivores thrive and others thrive on Ray Peat inspired with many more in between. In Wellness!

[@AmbiguousPeach]

so I just finished watching this video. Very interesting. I am five days into adding carbs back from a two-year, carnivore nightmare. Long story short, I did not thrive, I had mental health issues, thyroid issues, electrolyte, and balances that would never correct themselves. No matter how much I supplemented. I feel like a completely different person right now just adding in the carbs. You know how you feel on the first spring day after a long cold winter? That’s how it’s feeling when I wake up now, I really feel rejuvenated and my mental health feels amazing again. My question is this Dr. Saladino, after talking with Mike, do you feel that your recommendations on your website are still accurate? I’m asking because I did the macro calculator and it has me at 170 for protein and carbs, and 136 for fat. I am currently a 40 year old female weighing in around 300, at 5 foot 6. I walked 2 1/2 miles every morning and do 45 minutes to an hour of weightlifting five days a week. I was 260 at the beginning of carnivore and just kept trusting the process until I ballooned back up at 300. Just wondering if you still feel that’s a good ratio to go by or should I kick the fat down?

[@JRR100]

Studies show that listening to Anthony chaffee, ken berry, bart kay, eric westman followed by paul saladino causes confusion, anxiety and eventually insanity and death!

[@Papacarnivore15]

That is total BS. Enjoy eating your 200+ grams of carbs and plants.

[@shauna996]

Just when we think the science is settled, along comes more science that completely contradicts what we thought was the base truth. It is confusing and frustrating especially when all opposing sides are so intelligent and have so many studies to point to.

[@justinc3238]

Except Anthony Chaffee is the same age and looks infinitely younger. Paul has aged rapidly over the past 3 years from all the glycation. Sugar addiction at its finest

[@dealwolfstriked272]

@@justinc3238 Glycation but also he is a sun pusher and shows himself barefoot soaking up the rays. Sun exposure is crazy harmful to skin as evidenced by a cross country trucker who has a left arm that has severe sun damage from driving all day with sun at his 270deg. 10 yrs of this and its shocking how much it aged his skin. No one on KZbin I follow that pushes "sun is amazing for us" has nice skin. Now that said they do seem happier from all that D3 and just being out and about increases happiness a lot.

[@curbscrape8343]

If you zoom out - you can see doctors who's focus is the health of humans and beating diabetes, and the others seems to be supporters of the sugar industry. If they haven't received 'funding' I'm sure they will...

[@Papacarnivore15]

Hello from sunny and warm South Florida USA!! I completely agree with you. I don’t eat honey very often, maybe once or twice a year. However I do keep some berries (blueberries, strawberries and/or raspberries) in my refrigerator quite often as a treat that I usually have with Brie (or other types) of cheeses. I see nothing wrong with having fresh berries from time to time.😊

[@gemschaeffer7291]

Carnivore nearly killed me worst choice ever, I'm eating fruit,starches (sweet potato and white rice with no digestive issues) and meat and doing fine whilst maintaining an active lifestyle by training frequently with adequate sunshine and grounding in addition,smart guys thanks for the information

[@burritodog3634]

how did it almost kill you

[@kathleenking47]

Carnivore, without vegetables..is weird, and off balance Sugar with proteins together, csn be strange as well..like barbeque, or Tempura sauces

[@destro1989]

Who knew carnivore was a joke. Saladino won't take responsibility though, he just says "he's evolving". No bro, you're a quack who's selling supplements.

[@justinc3238]

The sugar addiction is too real

[@TheRobojay]

@@justinc3238 amen. The biggest challenge of carnivore is breaking those chains.

[@DanielPuzzo-wq2wx]

So brilliant guys, great discussion, love what you both are doing. Also note that PUFAS, both omega 3 and 6s, are excellent sources of methyl glyoxal contributing to glycation

[@Toucan47-wq2wh]

Really great podcast.

[@firelight-vitality]

Earn your carbs. If you're not constantly on the move apply caution on how much and what kind of carbs you ingest. It's as simple as that. Ancient hunters ate honey to keep them going while on the hunt and they ate meat while sitting around the fire.

[@aspiresk8boarding]

Your cells require a daily amount of glucose to function even if laying in bed all day. Yes gluconeogenesis can take care of that it’s just a stressful mechanism. Even 150g carbs for a sedentary person is shown to increase HPA axis activity meaning a rise in stress hormones to adapt to a lower energy input.

[@truthbomb5352]

Study in apples, applesauce and apple juice when controlling both carbs and duration of consumption also showed Same glucose response

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

36:34 So, according to Lustig, if I put pysillium husk in my coca-cola, I can drink as much as I want?

[@sophie4636]

😂😂😂😂

[@andythompson4448]

Paul what about your site it recommends 50% fat 30%protein 20 % carbs , but lately I’ve been hearing you advise a Gaithersburg carb lower fat moderate protein diet ..???

[@Primetime_dads]

Yep, me too!!! Trying to figure out what his thoughts are now

[@lulur1149]

Excellent guest!

[@Supsup7777]

Paul- can you talk about the hybridization of fruit and the intake of it on the animal based diet? I’m doing carnivore right now but eventually want to add fruit back in. I’m just on the fence with our fruit not being the fruit we had years ago.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Even most wild fruit has been altered by humans over the millennia. Wild fruit, particularly during most of evolution, was a fraction as sweet as modern cultivars found in grocery stores or grown in the backyard. Also, fruit along with honey typically is only available a few months a year. This is true of the Hadza who have a wet season that only lasts 2-3 months. On top of that, grains and tubers were limited in the human diet prior to agriculture. Wild grains are so small as to have little calories. And wild tubers are almost entirely fiber.

[@vivek123515]

Paul was asked the same question on Dr Ken Berry's podcast. He stalled and beat around the bush like how the fruit he gets in Costa Rica are kind of 'natural'. He couldn't give a straight answer.

[@tonyinfinity]

Out of all the "health/diet Doctors" out there I still think Paul is the one who seems the most knowledgeable. The problem with Lustig is when he speaks he sounds so knowledgeable and sure of what he's saying that it seems like he must know what he's talking about. However Lustig has been debunked several times so I have lost faith in what he spews. I really like Dr Chaffee but it's hard to be on board with just eating beef and water, and he's so stiff on his belief that we should only eat what he does just because it supposedly works for him. I will say that even though I think Paul has it dialed in and it seems to be working for him I don't think his diet works for everyone. After I was on carnivore for several months, I felt amazing, then I started incorporating more sugar in the form of fruit and maple syrup and that's when I fell off the wagon, and HARD. It took me some time to dial it back in. It seems for a lot of people once you go carbs it's really difficult to keep the sugar under control.

[@FreedomFBA]

I can hear doc Ken berry saying "Why would you eat bee throwup" lol

[@JavelinaSteve]

He would also say if you eat 200 gms of carbs you might “done lap over your belt”

[@JapanLovers]

Better than drinking poisonous coffee bean extractions Ken

[@Papacarnivore15]

Yeah… humans have eaten honey going back thousands of years, but only on a very limited basis when they would find it, typically in the Fall only, and it was NOT a major part of their daily diet. Humans have mainly consumed fatty (mostly red) meat, fish and seafood for hundreds of thousands of years (they were and ARE super carnivores) and consumed a limited amount of plants. Humans were never meant to consume a high amount of carbs on a daily basis.

[@aidanf7507]

What do you think about the Hadza? I'm pretty sure they eat lots of honey and fruit.

[@pinksupremacy6076]

​@@aidanf7507what do you mean by a lot? They for sure dont eat it every day.

[@AlexTJ-]

Perhaps its time to bring all the big brains of science and nutrition together to talk openly on WTF is going in here. Nutrition is far too distorted and there is more confusion now than there ever has been. These debunking and critical videos just continue to take our knowledge backwards and cause even more confusion. My 2c on Dr Lustigs advice, removing all forms of fructose (apart from fruit with a good sugar to fiber ratio) has done wonders for my strength and cardiovascular training.

[@yeetsin560]

Because there are too many genetic, environmental and individual differences beteeen humans, that’s why nutrition is different for everyone

[@erikahuxley]

Not really, you don't have to follow any dogmatic fixed diet, figure out what's best for you. There is no one fixed diet that fit everyone on earth for every ages and situation. Develop your own strategy based on your genetic, present metabolic and gut health, medical conditions, lifestyle, and what you're trying to achieve.

[@alechershman8322]

1:14 Fave refers to fat-adapted insulin resistance/slightly elevated blood glucose as a "problem." But why? I'm on an omnivore, high-fiber, low-refined carb diet, and I have watched my fasting BG creep up to about 100-105, but over the same period my lipid panel has transformed beautifully (1:1 TG/HDL) and my fasting insulin has dropped to around 2.5, not to mention that I've lost all of my previous chronic inflammatory conditions and gained mental health and clarity that I have previously never experienced or thought possible. In this context (and similar low-carb ones), what is actually the problem with having higher glucagon, and therefore transiently higher blood glucose? Isn't there a natural limit on gluco-neogenesis from dietary carbohydrate abstention whereas exogenous carbohydrate exposure can potentially stimulate insulin to pathological levels previously unprecedented within humans? Given the dynamic tradeoff between insulin and glucagon, wouldn't it be more prudent to err on the side of theoretical hyperglucagonemia?

[@glennwhitehead1178]

A piece of fruit or two cannot be bad for you, provided you’re relatively healthy and active, and are eating an animal based diet. But I do think you should rotate your carb sources, take breaks from fruit altogether and have days when you’re zero carbs and then days where you’re adding them in. Cyclically speaking, different proportions of macro nutrients and cycling your types of meat and plant foods is surely the most natural way to nourish yourself. I think drinking fructose is probably not a great idea, even fresh squeezed juice.

[@helloman5576]

I eat whole fruits and 2 tbsp of honey a day, i get around 250 grams of carbs. I feel way beter then on low carb

[@matijagrguric6490]

​@@helloman5576how do your teeth feel

[@jumpinjee]

If you're insulin resistant it can be VERY bad for you.

[@matthewvasquez9278]

Been animal based for almost a Month, ive always did Yo-Yo diets, im 27. It never worked. Ever since i started this diet, i dont feel hungry throughout the day. I dont feel tired, and i sleep better.

[@binathere2574]

1 month is not long enough to know, really.

[@rcristy]

I've always been hypoglycemic and never got hunger pains, just a sugar drop. Since being carni for about 3 months, I don't get hypoglycemic, I get hunger pains if I haven't had a meat meal every day. I noticed this straight away, the results were obvious. Its cured my anorexia also💕🙏

[@k41418]

This is my same experience. Since childhood I have been very sensitive to blood sugar changes. Fruit is the worst for me as even a few berries will cause a stronger reaction within a couple hours of eating. I am a very hypersensitive person. I cant do starches bc of bloating and constipation and I get very fatigued after having them. I wish I knew the fix bc I dont feel great on carnivore and get some negative sude effects from it as well.

[@ZackRamsey14]

What I've noticed is that if you have a history of high pufa diet, sugars just wreck the blood glucose levels and we feel it like you mention. It's a journey for everyone depending on how much pufa is in their fat stores, but carnivore may help by favoring so much saturated fat intake. Ultimately though, it seems like the more one limits pufa or rids it from their stores, the better they can handle sugars. Imo this is what everyone misses. And it's also a double edge sword of once you include carbs, yes you'll crave because the body is going to want at least 100-200g once it starts running krebs, to avoid feeling like shit @@k41418

[@slb5150]

Yes, plz try to get Dr Lustig.

[@gingerindian1141]

Lustig is a legend in this low carb keto world. He's part of the reason you all are podcasting. Lustig is primarily talking about average people exposed to the obeseogenic environment. Your consumers are working out, sophisticated in skills with wellbeing. If you work out you may need some carbs, less so if cutting body fat. But what you fail to note it's the majority lustig appeals to. The people blind to ultra processed food. He deserves the credit and respect as a gigantian in the diet revolution over the last decade to 15 years

[@jasonR2]

37:16 "Alright Mike, fiber makes it all okay." "Oh boy" 🤣🤣

[@alex_4trth]

Taking everything together, it seems to me that you have to have to kind of pick a macronutrient-fat or carb-not necessarily completely excluding the other. This is because of the randle cycle activation. Over consuming substrate mass above the demand of the cells leads to problems, such as T2D. So, which one to pick? For me, and from what I’ve seen, meat and fat is way more nutritious than carbs sources and carbs are clearly more addictive, are easier to overeat, and less satiating, so I choose fat rather than carb. I believe both could probably work, but I’m skeptical. I feel amazing and have felt the best doing this-carnivore + 1/2 pieces of fruit (~

[@lisaroth6651]

This is interesting. I’ve been low carb for over 2 years. I have a cgm and I’ve noticed my glucose is higher recently and I don’t know why. My diet is very clean, no processed foods, organic, lots of vegetables, some fruit. Should I start adding more carbs? Meat is only grass fed, grass finished.

[@Teal_Seal]

Maybe add more fat? It’s calming and is your fuel source if you’re in ketosis. Stress and lack of sleep can also raise insulin.

[@zene2550]

Woah did he confuse physiological insulin resistance with pathological at around 1 hr 14

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Bart Kay would have a fun time with this guy.

[@susanschmid2271]

1984 - what is the titel of the other book?

[@markhapner8499]

Your protein recommendation doesn't take into account the age related decrease in the efficiency of protein synthesis. Some studies show a 40% decrease in seniors. Also, there are studies that show when seniors adjust their protein intake to compensate for this, their protein synthesis increases to the value of a younger person. This potentially argues for seniors to increase their protein intake significantly above your recommended 0.8 grams per pound. Both Jay and Mike as well as yourself seem to be missing this.

[@Anna-rb6rg]

1 Frutcose and stimulation of pleasure centers in the brain. Firstly, thank you for emphasizing that rodent research does not provide absolute knowledge about the human body: a) mice live 1-2 years b) mice sleep and eat several times during the day It follows from this that 12 hours of hunger for a mouse is at least several days of hunger for a person But I think you missed the context when analyzing what Robert was talking about. He definitely did not say that fructose is bad ONLY because it stimulates the nucleus accumbus. No, he was talking about the fact that this substance can cause (minor or severe) dependence. And most people do not realize this, believing that pleasure equals benefit. But this is not always the case, as in the example with narcotics. In addition, I do not agree that man constantly consumed fructose in the process of evolution. Fruit and berry season occurs once or twice a year, and preservation methods have only recently emerged. People ate fruit relatively rarely. And obviously, not every day there is a large quantity and variety. In addition, modern fruits are very different from what they were millions of years ago. 2 Fructose in fruits The point is not that fiber prevents fructose from being absorbed in the intestines, but that carbohydrates enter the system more slowly - orange juice will go immediately into the intestines, and the orange will still be processed in the stomach for at least half an hour. The faster the energy comes in, the larger the insulin surge, obviously. Plus a whole orange will stretch the stomach more and therefore give more satiety. I also didn’t like that you switched in this section from discussing fructose to “sugars” and "carbs". The body synthesizes carbohydrates for work, but it does not make fructose. 3 Hyperglycemia Yes, you are right in saying that for normal people, the increase in insulin and sugar after a meal is not a problem. But does anyone doubt this today? Fewer than 1 out of 14 American adults have optimal heart and metabolic health according to the recent July 2022 study published in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology. And this is in conditions where laboratory reference values are significantly distorted. So yes, for most people, being careful with high insulin is good advice. 55:35 Methylglyoxal (MGO) - The first link in Google also contains new papers that show the opposite (for example, PMCID: PMC9727824). I would expect a more scientific approach and analysis from you. 4 Insulin Again, the context was not taken into account - the conversation was about diabetics and the reputation of insulin as a “good guy”, and not about the fact that a person does not need the hormone insulin.

[@shawnmontazemi7662]

My protein macro would only be 160 grams, or only 6 oz per day. Is this correct? Protein keeps me from being starved. I eat about 16 oz per day, or more. I understand it is based on activity levels, muscle building goals, etc. Confused here. Help?

[@ZackRamsey14]

160 grams of protein, not the weight of the meat

[@vernonkuhns3561]

No I don't think we have the whole story yet. What you are saying is that many people who HAVE gone Carnivore and reversed Diabetes, obesity and other diseases while becoming stronger and maintaining for years is impossible. You are saying Shaun Baker and the other long term carnivores are not real. Y'all got a lot more work to do. We are still at the stage of try it and see if it works for you.

[@tommy92660]

Thanks

[@derekconn9950]

I don’t think Lustig is saying it’s bad in and of itself although sometimes he makes it seem that way. But it is the amount and how much is in ultra processed food and it’s just easier to get people to focus more on it saying its bad but you gotta admit there is far too much in a typical American diet. But once people are carbohydrate intolerant they should cut them out until it’s under control then can add good carbs back in. But he doesn’t say to not eat fruit ever

[@zenamatthews9380]

They got triggered and straw manned him

[@_leonfischer_]

I have a question: on the animal based diet , there are included a lot of sugars, derived from fruit and honey, which are good. However it s know that sugar causes inflammation, and makes your skin age faster, through glycation. What do you recommend for a person who wants to preserve a young skin avoiding glycation? What kind of carbs should I eat?

[@Paulsaladinomd]

I don't believe sugar causes inflammation at all. When we look at the research on fruit, especially fruit juice (which contains a lot of sugar, we see a lot of benefits. Fruit juices have been. shown to lower lipid peroxidation, improve endothelial function, glucose tolerance, and lower biomarkers of inflammation. If sugar from fruit and honey caused inflammation, we wouldn't see these major improvements in humans.

[@Jane-pg8jv]

Yes fasting and play with different fruits (low/highcarb) and honey just once a month (i also get pimples from honey) You is you…Paul is Paul 🫶

[@tropicaoptica]

Just eat fruit first in the day after fasting all night. If someones insulin response is so messed up that they can’t eat fruit daily, they should do a fat cleanse for a few days and eat zero overt fat and then see how fruit and sugar effects you.

[@Amaraticando]

"it s know that sugar causes inflammation, and makes your skin age faster, through glycation" Is it?

[@fryerobert093]

​@@PaulsaladinomdI believe it does.paul is defending his sugar addiction.

[@irenepalmer7597]

For those of us who have to make a living, and especially those of us who are much older, and can’t move like we used to, definitely cannot eat too much of these fructose items. Once in a while, it’s OK for a treat. As a pre-diabetic and not someone who lives their a whole life exercising because I live in the real world, it is almost impossible to burn that much calories. When you’re married, have children, etc. your whole life is not exercise and health, but we do our best to eat healthy and better.

[@aliendroneservices6621]

Learn efficient exercise. See: Doug McGuff and Drew Baye.

[@JavelinaSteve]

I am 67, although I exercise a fair amount hike 20 miles a week. But the reason for my response, is to agree with you that too much fructose or carbs definitely leads you to belly fat, not omental, more subcutaneous. I drink about 8 oz of orange juice and 8 oz of raw milk per day, otherwise I eat all beef, a little cheese. I also find that eating in a 6 hour window helps, so that I am not eating any calories for 18 hours. If I do this, I can maintain a lean muscular body(3 days at the gym, 4 days hiking). Definitely I would be hanging over my belt if I ate 200gms of carbs, just can’t see that working for me.

[@BloodGangBrazy]

@@JavelinaSteve Carbohydrates are unnecessary, toxic, and inflammatory in the human diet. You should eat only one meal a day for optimal results on a ketogenic diet.

[@MikeFave]

In my personal experience and my experience working with clients, eating a higher carbohydrate diet is very much possible for older individuals with full time jobs, and kids. This is the vast majority of my client base. The total dietary intake just has to be managed appropriately and the diet has to be tailored to the individual 👍 Just for some context, I am married, and was working 50-60 hours a week in the hospital during COVID (2020-2023), while eating a higher carbohydrate diet and maintaining my weight/ body composition. I was working out roughly 2-3x/ week for an hour or so, and was otherwise sedentary.

[@Joy80JJ]

I agree Irene. I'm in my 60's & have not been in the best of health. However I have improved & found 30 mins a day to walk or use my recumbent bike pretty much every day. Along with making smarter food choices...eating more protein & less overly processed food has helped greatly.

[@Mr_Karre]

Paul, is it better to eat White rice or Brown rice?

[@JavelinaSteve]

White has no lectins, the brown husk has lectins which could cause leaky gut, etc.

[@Amaraticando]

White: poor in nutrients, poor in antinutrients. Brown: poor in nutrients, rich in antinutrients.

[@EkilRevolution]

unenriched white rice is the best but i would not use rice as a dietary stape due to poor nutrient content

[@erikahuxley]

Traditionally Asian has always prefer white rice, even during ancient time, it is easier to digest. Brown rice is tougher on the gut and since it contains fat it doesn't last long in storage. If you eat brown rice, it is better to pressure cook it which make it easier to digest and further reduce the antinutrients. California and India rice in general have lower arsenic level. Thailand rice is in the middle range, and highest arsenic rice are from other farming US states AR, MO, LA, and TX. I like rice, but imo potatoes and sweet potatoes is a better source of starch and nutrients.

[@matthewpsu17]

I believe Dr. Lustig does say sugar will go into muscles first before insulin stores it as fat.

[@zenamatthews9380]

They strawmanned the shit out of him

[@Korvxx]

19:00 It all depends on your gut microbiome...you are getting nothing from white rice in isolation as a meal...you need alot of diverse fiber sources to do well with starches

[@aj-pf5yt]

I wonder how Lusdig got it so wrong. Paul, it’s refreshing to see that you are not dogmatic. Being wrong and making adjustments and corrections is what it’s all about. Thank You.

[@mat..n.7061]

"I know fruit is bad for me, I know fructose is bad for me i've heard well spoken, articulate, intelligent Robert Lustig say the fruit is bad for me and fructose that does all these horrible things to me" lol Really? You do this THE ENTIRE podcast. Manipulating what Dr. Lustig said, and "debunking" him with things that he literally said himself. What a fked up world we live in.

[@AntonKnutsson]

I’ve been on AB 5 days, Been on carnivore for one month after just having brain fog and tiredness. Every time I eat fruit I get anxious and tired and little bloated depending on how much fruit I eat. Why is this?? I have better libido and feeling good expect for being anxious

[@JanZigbe]

My problem is fiber, not sugar.

[@roberthanusen23]

Sugar saved my life.

[@anthonysalvato3]

The description says "Alex" Lustig, I assume you meant to write "Robert."

[@alex_4trth]

Correct

[@QuarkDrip]

Looking forward to watching this. 😃

[@ajjaber3515]

Lustig may have beaten the record for making the most far fetched and reductionist arguments in a single podcast

[@joerandom157]

Bart Kay has entered the chat...

[@ajjaber3515]

@@joerandom157 can’t stand him.

[@paolochicco7200]

My body produces almost no amylase, so carbs from grain and a great part of sugars, including fruits make me sick. Berries are the only fruits that by my personal experience of trial and error, are ok (in small quantities). It's been almost one year since I excluded all the carbs and sugar from my life and I have never felt so good. I exercise everyday, alternating aerobic and anaerobic exercises, and I never felt without energy.

[@erikahuxley]

I acknowledge this and it's why beyond just metabolic and gut health, nutrition have to be catered to the individual unique genetic.

[@edgewound]

What you're missing about the fiber content is the statiety from said fiber of the dosage of fructose from just drinking juice without the fiber. Overdose of fructose from juice in the absence of eating whole fruit with the fiber.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

Fiber also interferes with the absorption of fructose. That might be the only major health value to fiber. But it would be healthier simply not to consume all the sugar.

[@edgewound]

@@MarmaladeINFP Fiber is the food for your gut microbiome.

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

​@@MarmaladeINFPthey explained why fiber doesn't actually inihibit fructose absorption.

[@landofthesilverpath5823]

Yes, it is the case that you can over do your CALORIES, with juice because of lower satiety. But that isn't the point here. The point is that Lustig is saying that Fructose is "toxic," in and of itself. Not because it's easy to consume more calories than you burn, but that there is something pernicious about fructose at the molecular level.

[@edgewound]

@@landofthesilverpath5823 Because fructose is the sweet molecule that goes straight to the liver in the absence of fiber. Lustig says fructose is what makes you eat the fruit...for the fiber. He's against juicing of fruit for this reason. Fructose overload.

[@donteventhinkaboutit_]

I gained a new respect for you after watching that disgusting display of a tv show, the doctors. The way that they acted was super strange are they're for sure a bunch of weirdos. Anyways they literally sunk their own ship, exposed themselves and you handled it greatly!

[@nikolaystoilov942]

If fats and carbs compete for cell processing do you think it's better to eat carb dominant and fat dominant meals separately to make it easier for cell metabolism?

[@tropicaoptica]

This is what I have been doing for 14 years. Fat blocks insulin receptor sites. So I eat fruit first in the day or before a meal. I save my fats and proteins for dinner.

[@ajjaber3515]

It depends on how insulin sensitive you are / how much metabolic damage you’ve accumulated. I was keto for a year and my glucose metabolism was shit. I was experiencing a lot inflammation after eating any carb source. So I slammed my fats super low and I’m feeling better now than I ever have on carnivore.

[@M13x13M]

That is the ancient Tibetan tradition. Eat only one type of food per meal.

[@M13x13M]

That is the ancient Tibetan tradition. Eat only one type of food per meal.

[@asdf1991asdf]

​@ajjaber3515 how much caeba do you consume?

[@sophie4636]

Professor Lustig has obviously never seen an actual person suffering with an addiction to a negative substance - I've seen people with hardcore drug addiction and my ex in the depths of a crack binge has absolutely nothing in common with my daughter and I eating a mango for breakfast this morning, whether the same area of the brain lights up in rats or not. The despair, torture, destruction, and desparation of a drug addiction does not equate to my daughters eyes light up with pleasure and quiet joy because she got fresh mango slices with her breakfast. I have full respect for Prof Lustig, but to compare eating a mango with taking heroin is DUMB.

[@VVIP_Prestige]

Is very hard for me take Huberman and Dr L any health advice. Look at the sizes… it said it all.

[@sophie4636]

Haven't you seen a picture of Huberman with his shirt off?? Omg he's so muscular and in amazing shape.

[@ASMRZoneThe]

Coming back to this video months later and I wonder if Paul could benefit from cutting down on animal fats and protein to tolerate more starch. Not sure he has any desire to do that, but that made all the difference for me. It's weird, first switching from carnivore I had to only do fruit and honey as starches made me feel odd as well. Months later, starch is a necessity for me and gives me much better muscle recovery than 1:1 sources like fruit and honey. With zero starch, I tend to get that keto like anxious energy even WITH fruit sugars reaching around 300g a day. The starch was the only thing that stopped that for me. Perhaps Paul likes this but after years, I couldn't deal with that stress

[@manojlogulic4234]

I don’t understand this interview, what is the point here? That healthy people can eat fruit? Real question should be why the fuck all those ppl develop diabetes and is fructose contributing to that or helping, my bet go 100% on Robert Lustig

[@beginner1991]

Dr. Lustig says fiber reduces absorption of Fructose and then the counter is to show that fresh oranges vs juice have the same GLUCOSE response? That's not really relevant because we would want proof of same Fructose absorption rate not same glucose absorption rate. I don't know what's true, but I'm merely pointing out the flawed argument.

[@MikeFave]

If blood glucose is elevating an equivalent amount for gram equated carbohydrate amounts then its very likely that absorption of both monosaccharides is the same between both groups. If there was less carbohydrate absorbed in the whole orange group due to the fiber we'd see a significant difference in blood glucose response. Further I referenced a paper discussing the lack of nutrient absorption inhibition via fiber, due to the ileal brake mechanism. This was to further highlight my point of lack of inhibition of absorption by fiber. The argument is solid 👍

[@jeffrey4577]

1:45:44 yes

[@mrentertainer47]

The fact in my situation as T2 diabetic is that it takes very little pastry or bread or starchy foods for me to have big glucose spikes! So I can't dispute the evidence of my own testing and know that I can control my blood-sugar by simply avoiding carbs (less than 50g per day). My triglyceride/HDL ratio is now 0.95 so I guess I am not insulin resistant (but I have always been slim). Certainly, as a lay person on medical issues, I feel so frustrated that professionals such as yourselves, cannot agree to have broad seminars to thrash out the truth of our cellular biology?

[@kiemtruong6903]

Too frequent ads

[@M13x13M]

There is an ancient Tibetan tradition. Eat only one type of food per meal.

[@v6imlen]

So we went from pure meat (CarnivoreMD) to little bit of honey to 2x more carbs than protein. Whats next?

[@firelight-vitality]

I blame it on YT. These people need to provide new and controversial information to please the YT algorithm god.

[@Papacarnivore15]

Soon he will recommend honey, maple syrup, agave syrup, fruits and plant based diet….. Meaning VEGAN

[@v6imlen]

@@Papacarnivore15 Heart & Soil "Sprouted grain muffins" coming up

[@MikeFave]

Health is next 👍

[@Kim-dw7cj]

@@Papacarnivore15 Honey isn’t vegan

[@gregmau7557]

Great podcast. Sugar ain't the real bad guy 💪

[@kathleenking47]

HFCS and seed oils, can

[@JasonOfWales]

brillioant guys..... lets go again!

[@TommyAlanRaines]

I am Hypoglycemic, aka low blood sugar. I had to learn how to balance protein, fats, and carbs.

[@manifestingmaren]

Someone show this to Shawn Baker lol😜

[@Primetime_dads]

I thought I heard Paul say one time that even if your Glucose hits 200, it’s ok as long as it comes down? I have this big question for Paul, hopefully he sees this. My glucose will shoot go to 180 -200 after honey, of course within the 1 hour or 2 hour mark it will back down to normal, I just always been nervous about that spike, but my fasting insulin is 3.3 So I guess don’t worry about that spike that it’s normal I guess

[@Primetime_dads]

Any advice on this?