Deconstruction w/Alisa Childers & Red Pen Logic | Cultish

[@ApologiaStudios]

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[@joeyrose1245]

This video was very helpful for me because my wife and I are in the process of leaving a dispensational church, SBC Baptist, and looking to go to a reformed church. It has been a tough situation for us because we are leaving a form of Christianity that we have known for most of our lives and going to a different form, which we have researched and prayed over and feel confident that we are doing the right thing. But the pressure is coming on us from the church we are leaving and it is making our lives very difficult.

[@adrianparente6034]

I remember when I left a reformed church to join an SBC (not dispensational) be careful... I met lots of people who idolized theology/knowledge but didn't actually love the Lord. Not all reformed churches are like this obliviously but definitely a pattern I've noticed.

[@TheCultishShow]

Hope you all enjoy this important conversation with Alicia Childers and Tim Barnett!

[@crystalfuller5119]

Please, stop using the apostate term, "spiritual abuse," and the rebranded deconstruction term, "dis-entangled." Why not use "false teaching" or "reform" instead? You are hurting more people than you are healing by using such secular language. Paul wrote of dealing with a similar situation in 1 Timothy 6. His instruction to Timothy is still relevant today. 1 Timothy 6:3-10,20-21. Using that term, as deconstructionists do, removes the responsibility to repent for the actions of the "victim" after the "abuse" (regardless if true or not). That is the point of deconstructionist using those terms to begin with.... to try to avoid repentance and self-reflection. No one will reach those deconstructing with that approach. Yes, horrible things happen to people. However, claiming "spiritual abuse" doesn't negate the sinful actions done by the individual(s) *after* the horrible situation happened. It's like claiming someone who was emotionally abused is justified in their perpetual hatred in their heart of someone who hurt their feelings. Such people continue harming others around them via their own willful ignorance and disinterest in actually bettering themselves. Validation is all they seek. You are perpetuating their hatred by using their terminology. Such people despise rebuke and will not listen to instruction.Their foolish pursuit of "knowledge"/"their truth" is all for naught. Proverbs 13:19-21.

[@crystalfuller5119]

I really enjoyed the discussion, regardless of my criticism. *Mortality salience* is a very real struggle for many. I hope that more people realize the truth, though. Ecclesiastes 9. I originally wrote this for a sibling who has gone apostate. If anyone would like to cross reference it with the Scriptures, I would be much obliged. Please, enjoy my poem. The Mortality of One's Own Morality. Doth you not understand God's sovereignty Oh ye of modern Christianity? Could it be the doubt of morality That hardens you towards mortality? Despair and doubt in the heart thrives Where the soul struggles to survive. Hast the Fire that once did wake Dim memories as we forsake? What proof would it take to set straight... A miracle to change your fate? Nay! Sub sole nihil novi est. Let this be your final test. Decieved though many will be To first see then believe. Of things unseen and fortold Are the mysteries of Old. Fortuna Favet Fortibus! What is it that you fear to lose? Forgotten are the days When Wisdom once ruled our ways. The prideful mind brings death not life, As knowledge to a fool's own strife. Understanding comes but from above To whom that ask in selfless love. Though carnal humanity may be, The Truth and faith shall set us free. In His Light there is hope to be had And reason yet to be glad. For in this Light my heart doth sing With such calmness His praises bring. I am truly grateful and blessed For He gives my soul much rest. Forti et fideli nihil difficile.

[@SneakyEmu]

It is very interesting how deconstruction always goes hand in hand with changing politics

[@Sardious]

Even the terms of calling heresy or strictness or some leader whose two controlling as a spiritual abuse goes with the modern political view of framing whatever you don't like making the deconstructionist of victim. And that goes with the politics that a victim must be treated as pure and as a hero of some sort. That's modern critical theory politics as well.

[@justin10292000]

Real, honest doubt searches for the Light, but mere hardened unbelief wants and remains in the darkness.

[@ReformedStudent1689]

Looking forward to it! Keep up the good work, Cultish!

[@kristyleavitt8007]

Thanks for this discussion! In particular, I found the discussion around the 1 hr mark about the connection between deconstruction and politics quite interesting and good food for thought.

[@jake-up1027]

Love sound teachers crossing platforms. We need more of this.

[@heidispeasmaker4809]

Haven't finished listening yet, but wanted to comment while I am thinking about it. Tim states that he wants to keep his theology separate from his politics. He misses the point that we can no longer do that, and it is not our fault. The progressives (politically) have made topics that used to be moral issues (choice, sexual orientation) matters of politics. So now, to uphold biblical standards, we HAVE to weigh in with our politics. There is a definite connection, here between those that deconstruct out of the faith and their politics. They go hand in hand.

[@thebark_barx6231]

A Christian shouldn’t keep their theology out of politics. We can’t. I don’t put convictions of what I believe what the Bible teaches out of how I vote. But maybe our brother meant making a political figure or party become a theology ???

[@somexp12]

Of course, the second someone starts challenging their beliefs, the Christian immediate affects an "oh, poor me" demeanor and acts like their beliefs are a personal matter. The person criticizing them is declared to be a mere bigot who simply hates them for living their life differently and spitefully wants to spoil what gives them meaning. They keep trying to have it both ways. They want the excitement and feeling of power that comes from aggressively pushing a fringe political agenda, but they're such cowards when it comes to accepting the normal consequences for such behavior.

[@Sardious]

​@@somexp12also listen to the language of deconstruction. First they're not questioning or losing their faith they're deconstructing which makes it sound like it's some high intelligence to do it. So they're saying how smart they are to start and then everyone in power is an abuser and everyone who is questioning their faith is a survivor or a victim of spiritual abuse. So that's the power dynamic that you get from critical theory and communist dialectic. It's very tied to our modern world where a victim is a hero who must be considered pure and anyone with power is an abuser who must be considered you have nothing good in them. It's less about questioning your faith and more about gaining social credit. I think that's why deconstruction almost always seems to lead with acceptance of the sexual revolution and the progressive politics. I'm sure some people question their faith, and I'm sure some people were in an environment that was overly strict or so vague and based on relationship that the Bible was left behind but I think a lot of people just want to figure out how to join in popular society and get to be seen as a hero for doing it

[@JadDragon]

Deconstruct the self, reconstruct in Christ. Jesus lives! ♥️ and is Yahweh God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑

[@Yesica1993]

Will watch later -what a crossover!

[@ledgend_coffee]

Consistent with the theme(s) at hand, this video offers a really candid glimpse into a fatal flaw in Christianity today: a toxic level of nerdy, academic terminology and concepts (IE- anything that ends in 'ism') in modern apologetics and theological influencers. There is more biblical terminology and concepts to use to describe theological and spiritual contexts, concepts and truths.

[@CeeEee-it6uz]

Please, please, do an episode on the Qabala. I know it is considered “Jewish mysticism” but from a Christian viewpoint, it does claim to be the mystical interpretation of the Torah/old testament, which is part of the Christian Bible. I am baffled that such perverse, pagan-like ideology, dangerous/elitist/diabolical ideology was able to hold its own and make into Jewish mainstream canon as a secondary source/commentary on scripture in a religion that has the Torah as its foundation. In addition to that, there is a lot of Christian Qabalistic thought out there, and the Qabala was essentially inspired by early century heresies such as Gnosticism.

[@gogos869]

I didn’t think it was possible for our culture to get any dumber! But I was wrong 😑 😮 Now, can you make it all go away? Come Lord Jesus!

[@AJBL1NGBUSSSTA]

he ain't coming. Perhaps he's already here, watching us all stuffer. Idk

[@AmericaNeedsJesus1]

They say reprobates are full of debate. And the deconstructioners are full of it.

[@ElficGuy]

1:40:20 I've left the classical doctrine of hell by reading my Bible. The dead are NOT boing eternally tortured (or suffering) rn.

[@toothandnailsawmill102]

Anyone comes out of a “church” like Hillsong an unbeliever, I’m not shocked. Research them for yourself and you’ll understand.

[@somexp12]

No one who claims to speak for God does so innocently. This is not a matter that is unique to certain churches. It's one thing for someone to be a Christian and to (wrongly) assume that one's leaders know what they're talking about. The second, however, that someone pretends to be competent at exegesis that person is claiming knowledge that they know they don't have. Maybe not fully consciously (one can deliberately deceive oneself), but they know they're lying at least well enough to be culpable for it. And it is actually worse when they claim to just be reading the Bible and reporting on what it says. This is just using one lie to cover up another. A plain reading of the Bible renders something incoherent and contradictory. They are not doing that and they know they are not doing that.

[@hollybooth6946]

I attended a Hillsong church for a few months a few years ago, and the pastor of that church now runs his own “7 figure business” and an Instagram account teaching people how to earn money from real estate.

[@AZRefugeeMinistry]

​@@hollybooth6946So sad. 🙏

[@gogos869]

I guess there are advantages to being so poor that you can’t even afford a car in order to drive to a church! Ironic that people being abused can’t figure out how to get into their car and drive away!

[@somexp12]

"people being abused can't figure out how to get into their car and drive away" This is trivially explained by the fact that the doctrine, itself, denies that they are suffering abuse. They are taught that they deserve said abuse and that it would be a "sin" to even consider escaping. Many of these abuse affirming doctrines are no less supported by scripture than, say, the Trinity, so dismissing them is not a minor decision for someone to make. Real conceited of you to openly wonder how anyone could be "too stupid" to not be able to rationalize ugly things out of the Bible in the way that you do. Just because you *_can_* rationalize them away doesn't mean that doing so makes for the "correct interpretation."

[@seanpierce9386]

@@somexp12It’s also worth noting that individual denominations and congregations will extend the Bible and cherry-pick verses to make it seem like this extension is justified. This allows them to normalize destructive behaviours even if it isn’t supported directly. That’s how we get faith healers, the prosperity gospel, and “worldly” aversion. With that said, it is surprising how much evil is, in fact, Biblically supported.

[@iamnurkyz27]

Progressive Christianity? Justification of the sin? Something new…

[@JesusPPK]

The only place deconstructionism will lead a person is into secularism. I've also seen far too many stories. And I've also seen people first hand go down on a road which rejects God, which rejects God's word, which rejects Jesus Christ. They end up speaking just like the world & more harmed than they would've been if they just took a step back & healed from the pain they're feeling from the people that betrayed them WHILE reading the Bible.

[@MartyMcFly1085]

Alisa looks more and more exhausted at every interview, more bitter. Her saying “It’s not fair” is a big turning point, it highlights how she still wants to be liked and relevant in this world. I think she understands that her views don’t compel anybody toward her beliefs, they still think she’s a lunatic, and her internal copium is running low. I think she can’t believe that.

[@ElficGuy]

1:49:30 He doesn't.

[@kkwok9]

Pick up His Word Read His Word Obey His Word Live for His Word Know His Word His robe is dipped in blood and His name is the Word of God Accountability not victimology

[@haroldwalma255]

Hath God said....

[@klarag7059]

2:00 Such a coincidence that he’s wearing the very hat I’ve been concerned about. Every time I see it all I can see is the Freemason square and compass logo. I hope Tim Barnett sees this comment and reconsiders wearing it.

[@aaron5128]

It's not freemason it's jesus is king crown On social apologist website. Just because you see something that's not there you can't put bad convictions on others and it's also a conversation starter!😊

[@Ranbowriter]

It looks like a crown to me

[@seanpierce9386]

18:00 Hell is an interesting example to use here. The modern concept of Hell is borrowed from Greek philosophy, where it mingled with Jewish thought before being included as part of modern Christianity. It was not part of Jesus’s original message, which was repentance followed by acceptance into the imminent new kingdom of Israel, punctuated by the resurrection of the dead. Hell is typically conflated with Sheol (which was a sort of semi-literal pit) and Gehenna (which was a literal place where people were burned). Calling it an objective fact here is rather ironic, given that its modern usage doesn’t appear in scripture at all. EDIT: It is mentioned briefly in Revelation, but only for it to be promptly destroyed in the fires.

[@somexp12]

Big issues nearly right out the gate at the 13 or 14 min mark. This notion that "reformation" values truth but "deconstruction" does not. Those who demand that the Bible be treated as a reliable authority for "truth" don't actually value truth. They value *_certainty._* Or, rather, they value the *_feeling of certainty,_* even at the expense of truth. Anyone who actually values truth needs to be able to indefinitely tolerate the realization that one does not yet know it. One also needs to be able to tolerate the possibility that one doesn't even have the capability of knowing it, or, if one does, that it will be an exceptionally difficult task. If you can not tolerate this, you're liable to accept easy answers. You're liable to either stick inside one religion or quickly convert to some other religion or denomination after leaving the first. It's likely to become a matter of simply picking between established religions because you are unable to let go of the idea that the "truth" must've been "revealed" to someone at some point in history. The "truth" needs to be something that someone of your education level could find after a few months of googling. Justin Martyr had the same attitude. In his search for teachers, he turned down the Pythagoreans merely because they instructed him to go study geometry and music theory before receiving instruction. He didn't have the strength of character to invest any effort into the prerequisites. Especially without any guarantee that he'd be able to get all his answers after doing so. When a Christian came along and told him that some "prophets" and some sacred "scripture" could deliver it all on a platter, his character was well suited to accept such easy answers.

[@Baccanaso]

Martyr was a Platonist prior to becoming a Christian. Pretty funny how you conveniently skipped over that fact.

[@somexp12]

@Baccanaso Uh, yeah, because it wasn't at all relevant. He was a Platonist because Platonism made fewer demands on him to exert himself. Then Christianity came along and promised him even more for less. Seriously, how does Platonism change any of this?