New Defenders

[@EricExistentialism]

Just stumbled on this vid, been a WHILE since I saw a comic review with a physical comic book!! I enjoy your perspective as well. Subscribed!

[@SonofCapwolf]

I give you a week until you get too annoyed by the shtick and unsubscribe. (wholly agree about physical comics - anyone can go on a website and save some jpgs, if you actually own it then it at least feels like you are more entitled to talk about it)

[@robert2430]

Man’s Laughter. That’s brilliant.

[@SonofCapwolf]

It's deep, man. She was violated by the laughter of man

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

That was a joke on SCTV in the late 70s.

[@SonofCapwolf]

@@JoeJoe-lq6bd I can't stress enough how unwatchable I find Catherine O'Hara (it's okay, she probably can't stomach watching me either).

[@JoeJoe-lq6bd]

@@SonofCapwolf Regardless, it was an Andrea Martin line. I can't find a clip but she was playing a children's show host doing a show in a prison. She asked one of the prisoners what he was in for and he said "manslaughter." She wrote it on a board, drew a line between the "s" and the "l" and said that manslaughter is really man's laughter.

[@markshulusky6680]

Semi- invisible? How about semi-nude? The New Defenders are the most half dressed, "almost naked" team around. Cloud going around in just a man's long sleeve shirt (presumably her/his own), Iceman in his bvd's, Angel shirtless, Beast shedding on the carpets and floors, Moondragon's dental floss bathing suit (I know it changed to a Space Nun business suit) and Valkyrie with the egg cup bra. It's no wonder Bobby came out and Cloud is transitioning back and forth like a confused time lapse on a tape loop. They never had a chance. Scorpio, ya weren't that strange after all, babe!

[@SonofCapwolf]

Check out the cover for Quasar #26 for Moondragon's least amount of costume ever.

[@robert2430]

My first exposure to Defenders was during this era. Having not read any of the stories involving these characters and only knowing of them from the Handbooks or snippets of old X-Men comics, my first opinions were formed on them at this time. So I didn’t have issues with them not being consistent or even being poorly written. I also was not reading the book monthly just here or there. It wasn’t a favorite of mine but I suppose there is a touch of nostalgia for it so I’m more tolerant for its failings now. Like with the Englehart stuff you despise, I see why but it just isn’t hitting me as hard to overlook what positives I get from it. Although to be clear I enjoy WCA a lot but New Defenders is more something I have a little fondness for. I think I prefer the DeMatteis stuff to Gillis.

[@SonofCapwolf]

I read #152 in the SWII Omnibus first and hated it, massively. Not only because it made absolutely no sense to a new reader and it's use of the SWII event was to have Beyonder show up halfway in, cure and purify Moondragon, and then a page later Moondragon succumbed to evil again. What bothered me was Valkyrie, Gargoyle and Moondragon all die incredibly underwhelming abrupt plot deaths and to someone completely unaware of the behind-the-scenes shuffling into X-Factor, you could still see the gears spinning and the complete lack of artistic intent in that "grand finale". When I finally read more, I started with #132 and so it started off very promising and I was excited to learn that the issues before #152 might actually be good. Then #133 was Cutlass and Typhoon. Maybe when I read this the first time, it seemed better following that. I remember all of his stories across his 20 issues - Asgardian trolls, Mantis-but-not-really-Mantis, Howling Commandos, Star Nebulas and I can really say that - outside of #132 (which he comes back to later and that was bad too) - I don't think any of them have anything good in them. Half of them revolve around either Moondragon or Gargoyle being evil and also giant (no idea why he would always have them grow gigantic). Ultimately, the Dragon of the Moon saga is the 19,000th remake of Dark Phoenix Saga and it broke almost every character involved in it that didn't have X-Men to fall back on when it was all over. What else to consider is that Defenders lasted 152 issues. It ended with Peter Gillis. They have never had a series last longer than 12 issues since then. He killed the magic, the long-running oddball title was cancelled and thus lost it's lustre. People don't check out the subsequent Defenders books because one of the things that set Defenders apart was that it seemed like something that wouldn't last but you'd look over and it would be at issue #97 or #143. Gillis as regular writer only led every Marvel title to cancellation, he didn't have the reputation or the writing to keep a comic selling. Doctor Strange, What If, Super-Villain Team-Up, Micronauts. I have read Strikeforce Morituri and that I have never mentioned it once is a reflection of my feelings. Something nice I can say is Peter Gillis is better than James Hudnall.

[@Joseph_Drew_III]

As far as I’m concerned, the og three (Strange, Sub-Mariner, and Hulk) are required to make a good Defenders story. Edit: improved sentence structure for the purpose of clarification

[@SonofCapwolf]

At least one of them, I'd say. Hulk, Valkyrie, Nighthawk and Hellcat was the team for a time. Then Doctor Strange, Valkyrie, Hellcat, Clea, Hellstrom and Gargoyle were the core for a bit later on. Realistically, Namor was hardly ever in the book for most of it's existence. He bowed out 14 issues in and returned every now and then for a guest spot.

[@robert2430]

I think you’re being harsh on that opening bit. Cloud, the least experienced, was the only one really freaking out. Beast is quick to point out they shouldn’t be afraid of death threats because they’re veteran superheroes and know it comes with the territory. Then they explain there were actual physical attacks too so it wasn’t all scary phone calls.

[@SonofCapwolf]

Valkyrie wasn't running scared of the alleyway-hiding crazed psycho Lunatik 70 issues ago. Moondragon is scared by Gargoyle, someone she barely knows, disappearing. There are many many solutions to seal themselves off from any outside threat and rather than think of any of them they become scared sheep and start hiding in the dark while also letting Cloud and everyone else go off by themselves to be quietly taken down by the thing they're scared of.

[@SonofCapwolf]

Another thing - had the following 20 pages presented a better story, I would have less focused on that opening. As a whole, the comic contextualises the characterisation and rubbishness of beginning with them all hiding in the dark and attacking Beast thinking he's Manslaughter as consistent with a comic that treats them with neglect and disinterest. Plenty more I could have also torn into from the Scooby Doo style resolution or how Gargoyle's disappearance is forgotten about after that scene ends. Art is nice.

[@billyjoejenkins2081]

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