Defensive Pokemon Ruined by Their Typing

[@FalseSwipeGaming]

I can't believe we forgot H-Avalugg...oh well LMAO

[@KonkyDonk]

A forgettable form on a forgettable pokemon. Honestly deserved for being so irrelevant.

[@MetalSam25]

It's so forgettable, I dont blame ya

[@chaosgallade2331]

Hisuian Avalugg is a regional forme done wrong. The Speed boost did nothing and Ice/Rock is just as bad as pure Ice even with the added resistances.

[@SomeAsian]

RIP

[@metayoshi1712]

quad weak to steel and fighting is just major oofs. aggron/bastiodon suffers from quad fighting and ground weaknesses. Alolan Sandslash had a quad weakness to both Fire and Fighting.

[@MoxieBoosted]

Wo-Chien, my beloved...

[@JP-bn9dn]

I POPPED when I heard your voice, love the crossover

[@RuggedRing]

Live Wo-Chien Reaction

[@cdsbeo5747]

@@JP-bn9dnthe two best comp poketubers in one video, my life’s goal has been reached

[@Abdus_VGC]

I too love Wo Chien, I got great success while living in and competing in India with a Flutter Mane, Galarian Zapdos, Wo Chien, Incineroar, Ogerpon Cornerstone and Suicune stall team

[@thagumaster1]

@@JP-bn9dnit’s funny cause I get all these Pokémon channels mixed up anyways

[@FarCritical]

Regular Aggron: *cries in two 4x weaknesses* Mega Aggron: CAN'T OUTSTALL THE WALL

[@bg8561]

THE WALL!

[@DarkSymphony777]

NO ONE ON EARTH CAN MAKE YOU FALL

[@cerdic6586]

Not funny

[@gregorymirabella1423]

Only if it has wish support.

[@gregorymirabella1423]

@@cerdic6586 It's a reference, you don't need to be rude.

[@silverrey7379]

1:29 seeing Serperior's Leaf Storm dropping its special attack is one of the most cursed things I've seen all day

[@athan13590]

Non-contrary serperior is ironically contrarian

[@eenpersoon2881]

I almost forgot that was even possible

[@frediemelperenaxiii235]

It feels like a crime

[@Asm0d3u5]

I was shocked

[@misteral9045]

​@@athan13590Wow, a pun and the correct use of irony. That was a good one, I came dangerously close to laughing.

[@doug-goat]

Alternate title: How hisuian avalugg’s typing ruins its defensive utility

[@ONLY_RR7]

Crazy how they somehow managed to give Avalugg a worse defensive typing than pure ice

[@Ben-jl2rh]

Thankfully Terrastalize exists

[@Idiotden]

unironically they did him so dirty. I looove regular avalugg, so I was super hype, but noooo they had to add ROCK TYPE.

[@nthequation5677]

Why god hates you - The Gamefreak Theorem

[@eLite-Tiss91]

Ice is crappy defense type anyway

[@paulmann8570]

To be fair to Cloyster, that Ice-Type went from being the thing that held it back to one of the things that kept it rolling for as long as it did the moment Gen 5 hit.

[@ethanmacdonald8568]

Skill link icicle spear go brrrrrr

[@Zeppongola]

IIRC it was also genuinely a boon in gen 1, where freeze-fishing was very common and immunity to it was an excellent trait, as was resisting the 90% accuracy blizzards, and Ice's weaknesses were basically non-existent in the format

[@Jw87563]

​@@ZeppongolaTrue. Fighting was crap because psychic was so busted, and rock slide wasn't that widespread, IIRC.

[@Zeppongola]

@@Jw87563 Yep. Plus fighting moves were pretty awful in general (I think the best one available to anything other than hitmonlee was submission), steel wasn't a thing yet, and the only halfway common fire attacks in the format came from the rare Moltres. I think the only gen 1 OU 'mon that usually ran rock slide was Rhydon (and golem, before it got phased out. Snorlax can learn it too, but I think you'd be sacrificing more critical moves for it)... who takes 4x damage from water, meaning it is 2-shot by _clamp_ of all things- which also stops it retaliating since its a gen-1 trapping move- and is very unlikely to even do 50%+ with rock slide in return, _and_ is outsped by Cloyster

[@Knirrax]

I was about to say something.I love my skill link cloister

[@i.c.2552]

Ice type: Agressive, effective against four types, weak against other four and only resists itself. Meant to be a glass cannon Most ice type Pokémon: slow and defensive I don't see any problem here

[@greenchilistudioz4537]

Glaceon is at least decent offensive pokemon, sadly due to it being eeveelution, it gets hold back and is weaker from it.

[@CelerisXIV]

Neither does game freak

[@nablamakabama488]

That’s the problem with rock and ice types. They try to be tanks way too often, but they have terrible defensive match ups.

[@firstsunrise8759]

@@nablamakabama488 Rock is at least okay in the way it resists Fire, Normal, Flying, etc. and isn't weak to Stealth Rock.. Ice on the other hand is the most terrible defensively

[@Justapikachu577]

@@nablamakabama488 rock is designed originally to be defensive and to this day has a great mix of defensive and offensive opinions. Ice was never meant to be defensive so it's baffling that Game Freak keeps trying to nake it defensive. Snow helps sure but snow is better for keeping the glass canons alive!

[@oktusprime3637]

Glad that we got the usual narrator. Was afraid it'd be a different one but it's the same beloved narrator we've had for years in almost every episode.

[@booradley6832]

It was strange that he mentioned it was the usual narrator, since it clearly was and nobody was questioning it.

[@nousername191]

@@booradley6832 Maybe he had a cold and was afraid his voice would sound different. No need though, same ole voice.

[@RandalfElVikingo]

Both suck, at least this one does not do the virgin jokes.

[@Poopoocachoo]

@@RandalfElVikingookay virgin

[@IamSaralinka]

@@nousername191Such dedication he has to his work. Good on you Mox-I mean Kellen 😊

[@westleywoollard5832]

I listen to both FSG and MB while cleaning and fully didnt realize it wasnt the usual voice

[@noah_of_babylon]

It is the usual voice wym

[@danielthemangrande]

@@noah_of_babylon it's like 1 or 2 whole octaves deeper, same person doing the voice but it's deeper.

[@MacAnters]

​@@danielthemangrandewym you're clearly gaslighting us. It's the normal narrator?!

[@MyRealAlias]

A moxie and a false swipe video? More for me

[@mr.lantern1111]

This guy. This guy gets it.

[@millevilleniven]

true

[@DanixMRs]

Y E S

[@iminmisery437]

Ironic since you can’t get a moxie boost using false swipe

[@SkylordBaoBao]

I actually laughed out loud when I saw Moxie had dedicated a whole section of the video to Wo-Chien because of course he would

[@theskullboy8700]

Moxie: have you ever heard the tragedy of darth wo Chien the wise

[@darkjackl999]

Never forget Aurorus I wanted to use it so badly but it was so bad i couldn't bring myself to keep using it IN A REGULAR POKEMON PLAYTHROUGH

[@iBenjamin1000]

do it anyway. I did it's a cool pokemon

[@kintaro1851]

You can use almost everything in a playthrough. I use a Magcargo in my current HG run. It might not be good at tanking special attacks, but it wrecks everything with it's choice specs attacks

[@wailmerwithinternetaccess7934]

​@@iBenjamin1000 it's Ice-type ofc it's cool 🙃

[@Alex_Barbosa]

​@@kintaro1851yea you can use anything, but it can be a frustrating experience.

[@sintheemptyone8108]

@@kintaro1851 Exactly, most of these mainline pkmn games are easy as hell because your opponents are often stuck with underwhelming teams & strategies while you have the ability to overlevel them if needed. Damage multipliers alone are just ridiculously broken in this franchise. Combine this with +6/-6 buff/debuff limit, and you can often just sweep with absolute impunity. (May I remind you, SMT has that at +4/-4 in Nocturne, +3/-3 in SMT4/Apocalypse & +2/-2 in SMT5/probably Vengeance. Even the premier hard as balls series doesn't allow you to go that far in buffs.)

[@Tarudizer]

Can I just say, it is the WEIRDEST thing to me that a ROCK and STEEL pokemon is considered "weak defensively". That just does not compute in my brain, it should be the most defensive pokemon in existence

[@teddyhaines6613]

It's a lot easier to stomach once you accept that Rock is a bad defensive typing on top of having anti-synergy with Steel.

[@pedrodarosamello64]

Making rock the second worst defensive type was one of the choices of all time.

[@lilharm]

think about it like this rocks and steel are durable in real life, but they can still be damaged by pickaxes, explosives, and other things designed to do so so it’s not weak because it’s fragile, it’s weak because more things are available that can break it

[@tidalgrunt]

Rock is weak because it's brittle. But it makes sharp edges in a lot of cases which is why it stabs good.

[@kevinbell5674]

I never understood why rock is weak against grass. Realistically, it should be the other way around. No grass is gonna grow where there is a big ass boulder.

[@mavriiick]

I like how you can tell when the writing switches from FSG to Moxie's whenever it switches from singles discussion to doubles. Cool touch that they wrote their respective sections.

[@TheHero136]

A Pokémon I wanna mention is Armaldo. With bug rock typing you have barely any resists and a lot of neutralities. Neutral to fire, ground, fighting, grass, flying, ice, dragon, fairy, electric, psychic, bug, ghost and dark. Weak to steel, water and rock. And the only resist you have is normal. With no reliable recovery and poor speed is it any wonder why Armaldo (and Crustle) for that matter are low tier garbage nowadays? The one who is decent, Kleavor, is good in spite of its typing.

[@jasonreed7522]

Armaldo's best thing defensively is its ability battle armor that prevents crits, and thus the whole crits ignoring your defensive boosts. Admittedly this is way more useful in nuzlocks than competitive.

[@PKMN649]

I love that most of the video is just saying "adding Rock to basically anything makes them immediately much worse."

[@victory8928]

Defensively anyhow. Offensively they became stronger

[@rossthemoss6827]

@@victory8928 Except for probably electric and rock - rock doesn’t help it against its main road block in ground - and rock is generally a physical typing while electric is special meaning you are going have subpar stabs depending if your physical or special

[@noukan42]

Imagine rock/normal blissey in the sand tho...

[@goGothitaLOL]

@@rossthemoss6827I would a argue a special one would be better, simply because Power Gem doesn’t fucking miss Only slightly tho

[@melvv18]

Rock seem to lack synergy with most types, except for maybe grass.

[@FirstLastname604]

Idk how popular this take is, but guest narrators are awesome and should be used WAY more often than April fools day

[@NightSkyNyx]

Agreed, I was pleasantly surprised to see TierZoo as a guest narrator for the Tropius video since he’s probably my favorite KZbinr at the moment but also hella unexpected since he does zoological videos lol. Hopefully we can get more guest narrators in the future as well (Jimothy Cool, Finchinator, Freezai, and maybe even Pinkacross are ones I’d like to see lol)

[@bettyunicorn6132]

@@NightSkyNyx I thinking Reverent, Plauge von Karma and Big Yellow too. You know some of the big RBY KZbinrs.

[@Shattered_Starstorm]

Hearing MoxieBoosted talking about Smogon OU instead of VGC feels so funny to me

[@bettyunicorn6132]

I love it.

[@RFE812]

That’s the April Fools joke.

[@Wizard_Lizard_]

Ice type should resist Flying. • Ice needs a defensive buff. • This isn't a big nerf to Flying offensively. • It thematically makes sense. Strong winds just make the cold harsher, and for most birds the act of pecking ice is ineffective.

[@alejandrobernard3828]

I agree, I think you could easily justify adding water and dragon to that list too.

[@RasenShot]

​@@alejandrobernard3828 Water I absolutely agree and I have been thinking this for years, but I don't know about resisting Dragon.

[@alejandrobernard3828]

@@RasenShot I put dragon cause lizards move slower when cold, so I feel I makes sense. In terms of game balance though, it probably would be a bad idea.

[@Endershock1678]

@@alejandrobernard3828 VGC player here, we don’t need a defensively competent ice type. Snow and Veil are already crazy with Ice having no meaningful resists, I can agree with ice resisting flying, but anything else would be make the typing actually pretty scary, especially with mons like Baxcalibur and Chien Pao running around.

[@goGothitaLOL]

@@Endershock1678the likes of Bax and Chien-Pao is a power creep problem, not a Ice-type problem And how would you feel about a defensively competent Rock-type?

[@thecod2345]

I will always have beef with Gamefreak for making Aggron so impossibly cool in every way, giving it a great learnset, and solid abilities, just for it to be borderline useless because of its 2 4x weaknesses

[@benross9174]

Aggron isnt bad, he just has bad MUs. If you learn the meta/tier he is in he can be really good.

[@gengarzilla1685]

Mega Aggron dropping Rock and being a better tank for it will never not be funny.

[@baxterbruce9827]

What was ever the point.of giving intended tanky Pokemon such intentionally bad typings? Like, they don't even always need GOOD typings (Aggron would STILL probably be better than it is now as a pure Rock not even a pure steel), but just... Don't make the typing like shooting them in the face

[@vermillion6159]

​@@baxterbruce9827 I think GameFreak just didn't think the relation between themes/concepts and actual type relations through. Think about it, whenever there's a monster in any piece of fictional media that has rock skin, wears armor or anything like that, its depicted as being super bulky, which makes sense given how sturdy these materials are in real life. Sounds all fine on paper. But in practice, that concept falls apart since the many weaknesses of rock types can be justified just as easily, and pairing it with steel makes it even weaker to fighting type moves. But I don't care, I'm still gonna use Aggron whenever it's available in a mainline game again. Even if it's not the best

[@jeremytorres5622]

And still being hindered by no recovery and can't even hold leftover's ​@@gengarzilla1685

[@Omar_ZX]

That thumbnail is safe to say very fitting

[@Matpit18]

Wouldn’t be a Competitive Pokémon Discussion video with MoxieBoosted without him bringing up Wo-Chien

[@xxcridonxx7614]

Wo chien live reaction

[@Jw87563]

Don't forget Brian Hands.

[@TheAweDude1]

This is actually one of the reasons I like Pokemon's typing system so much. Each type has an offensive and defensive identity that has actual implications for teambuilding. Some other games just have symmetrical or circular type systems. Or, like with SMT, each individual monster has their own, unique, defensive profiles.

[@christiancinnabars1402]

Bringing this up for the 100th time this month, but Game Freak should bring back the type effectiveness model they introduced in Legends: Arceus. As in, all 4x weaknesses become 2.5x multipliers instead. This won't drag every single mon plagued with quad weaknesses out from irrelevance, but it sure would help a good number of them. Rhyperior and Golem no longer die to Water and Grass moves, Aggron could actually attempt to wall in a meta with rampant Fighting/Ground moves flying around, and Articuno, Moltres, Charizard, and every Bug/Flying type ever won't get insta-gibbed by the Edge. Fun fact: Rhyperior, Camerupt, Carracosta, and Revavroom would actually take less than 2x damage from double weaknesses under this change due to their abilities.

[@cradiculous]

And while they're at it, get rid of freezing and bring in Frostbite. Freeze status is such an archaic mechanic.

[@goGothitaLOL]

What about the likes of Heatran, Gyarados, Pelipper, Volcarona, Landorus-T, Dragonite, Garchomp, Kingambit, Chien-Pao, Urshifu (Single-Strike), Calyrex (Shadow-Rider), Koraidon, Scizor, and Ferrothorn?

[@mr.penguindrewmateo8146]

Wait, 2.5x weakness multipliers are a thing in Legends Arceus, how come I never hear anyone talk about this?

[@alexandros5412]

nah that would make pokemon like bastiodon or ferrothorn too strong with their defenses

[@youtube-kit9450]

@@cradiculous The fact we have intimidate, burn, so many anti-contact abilities and moves etc. but basically nothing to stop special attacks always bothered me. Wouldn't mind a special version of intimidate and a frostbite version of will-o-wisp, honestly.

[@gengarzilla1685]

It will never not be strange how a Rock specialist like Brock will go on about "rock hard defense" when Rock is actually just a terrible defensive type. Go on the offensive, my dude, that's what your preferred type is good at!

[@baxterbruce9827]

In fairness, pure Rock isn't TERRIBLE defensively, it's just near constantly given antisynergistic pairs that give at least one compound weakness, making it LOOK worse than it is

[@june9914]

Balancing around normal types sure is a design decision of all time

[@baxterbruce9827]

@@june9914 You're giving me flashbacks to trying to play Gen 1 and multiple non-Normal type Pokemon having no offensive moves that weren't Normal Like, Scyther didn't even have Wing Attack until Yellow

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

​@baxterbruce9827 .............That's just dead wrong. As far as defensive types are concerned, having 5 weaknesses is already far from ideal to begin with, but at the very worst 4 of those types are good in some way, with fighting and ground being strong offensively in part to being able to hit 5 types super-effectively each, including notably the steel type for each. Water and steel are also both strong, staple types, so that's bad, too, given how commonly those 2 are seen because their typing makes them go from good to great more often than not. Even grass isn't a type you want to be weak to with things like Ferrothorn and Rillaboom running around in singles and doubles, respectively, and rock types are weak to at least a few of these examples, hence why it was featured multiple times in this video on various Pokemon. The example that kept being brought up for how good a rock type could be defensively being Regirock is only able to make it work by the virtue of it's defensive stats being so high on both ends, letting it take hits a lot better than you'd probably expect a Pokemon with such a large number of weaknesses. As for what rock brings to the table defensively that's actually valuable is mostly it's resistances to fire and flying, as poison isn't good outside of being strong versus fairy types, and normal not hitting anything for super effective damage; past that, having a special defense boost in a sandstorm is nice, but for something like Tyranitar most notably, it's this trait alongside it's solid bulk that give it the most mileage and any sort of defensive niche, and even then, it's largely Tyranitar's ability to set up sandstorm that helps it to enable the rest of it's team that gives it value most consistently when coupled with the movepool it gets. While rock does get a lot of type combinations that make it's weaknesses worse than they already are, that's in no small part because rock is a type that is quite flawed defensively to begin with, similar to how ice and normal don't add that much of value in the same regard when paired with other types

[@skeetermania3202]

In the interest of fairness, that early in the game where there are usually only Normal, Poison, and Flying Pokémon, Rock is pretty “rock hard” (amirght).

[@TheDougio]

Can I just say, I absolutely love this style of thumbnail that you guys make

[@1stCallipostle]

The real joke here is pretending Rock itself isn't a terrible defensive typing.

[@determineddaaf3]

True, it's not great.

[@isidorodaviddoro1920]

Exactly and the funny thing is that there aren't a bunch of fast rock type Pokemon that actually work as sweepers,steel types are basically a improvement Over rock types thus i see no reason no use them.

[@Darkmagecurt]

​@@isidorodaviddoro1920I can only think of aerodactyl

[@isidorodaviddoro1920]

@@Darkmagecurt yup Aerodactyl is way too fast and can basically become a ice/flying and fire type killer,he even has a ability that makes him immune to recoil damage so you get Stab Brave bird and head smash without losing HP. Putting him aside maybe rockruff and it's s evolutions?

[@Darkmagecurt]

@@isidorodaviddoro1920 I love aerodactyl they should've made him rock dragon just like charizard should've been dragon

[@DOYOUNOTHEWAY]

The moment i saw that title i knew my boy wo chien was gonna make an apperence and as moxie said it before "pls dont make me confront my demons".

[@MrKibitt]

Serperior not having contrary at 1:20 is hilarious.

[@victory8928]

Worry seed be like. I don’t know if that ferra was using worry seed?

[@garethlamb6923]

I love the Aggron line, but the two quad weaknesses really bring them down.

[@youtube-kit9450]

The fact that Gamefreak genuinely fixed Aggron by making it monotype and giving it Filter is absolute comedy.

[@SemiHypercube]

It's funny how the Steel/Rock combo (being both things known for their hardness) actually ends up being one of the worst defensive types competitively

[@1stCallipostle]

Rock is a horrible defensive typing in general. Third worst, after Ice and Bug. It's an offensively great typing, always saddled with defensive Pokemon and mediocre moves.

[@saltator8565]

@@1stCallipostle Being an offensive Rock Type with an accurate STAB move is a blessing. Just look at Iron Boulder.

[@Endershock1678]

@@saltator8565 Who is UU now lol

[@terraria_ranger4887]

​@@1stCallipostlebug is better defensively than rock is. Fighting and Ground are both very great to have as resists and Flying isn't that bad a type to be weak to. Meanwhile, Rock defensively... it has 5 weaknesses, including the aformentioned Fighting and Ground. Its 4 resists would be nice to compensate, if not for the fact that half of them are to *normal and poison*.

[@yeet8036]

It's still good in ou,it's just only usable on ho ​@@Endershock1678

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

8:10 Imagine a Rock/Ground Pokémon with Water Absorb? Like you bring some WATER Pokémon to a rock or ground gym and their ace just devours all the WATER you throw at it?

[@youtube-kit9450]

Honestly, gamefreak should do that more often in general. Make the rock/ground type a mud monster that absorbs water to become muddier, or a rock/ground giraffe that eats grass. Or like... why didn't they give Probopass levitate? IT LEVITATES.

[@mailcs06]

@@youtube-kit9450 There's a lot of pokemon that levitate and would really like a ground immunity that don't get levitate :( The Magnemite line would definitely prefer Levitate as one of their abilities over Sturdy or Analytic (not Magnet Pull though because that gives them a unique niche)

[@avch1209]

Bastiodon and Rampardos remind us that just because they have a ridiculously big statistic they are not going to be good Pokémon.

[@mailcs06]

the poor gen 4 fossils. Ruined by their typings and speed respectively 😔

[@mr.lantern1111]

This is your best thumbnail so far.

[@zaleww5824]

With mega aggron turns into pure steel with filter plus with z-a he will probably learn body press to crush everythimg with that insane def. He will be prettu useful for sure

[@RevvySD]

Having moxie has a narrator was a very cool and welcomed surprise

[@Rat_King1001]

I wish more content creators would do this kind of April Fools joke. I love when another creator hosts for a channel

[@Typical_Tyeus]

Marcus has a perfect voice for recording videos, being born better than others goes so hard 🔥

[@romulolopes6564]

Aggron makes me sad not only because the type combination is bad, but also because it wasn't a pseudolegendary, I looked at him and said, that is Tyranitar counter part. But no it is only a very cool looking pokemon that got shafted. What doesn't stop me from putting him in my team every time I played Ruby

[@specs.weedle]

the insulting thing is that it has every single quality needed to qualify for pseudo legendary status EXCEPT base stat total. it could really benefit from having those 70 missing base stat points put into literally anything that isn’t special attack or its already extremely high defense

[@Ludroth700]

3:49 wait, why is Cloyster and ice type? I never thought about it but I don't see any connections

[@RoseyPixels]

Honestly I never understood that either. There's a theory that Ice was somewhat late into development, but I don't personally buy it. I'm guessing they wanted to up the amount ot Ice types in Gen1, so they looked at mons like Lapras, Dewgong and Cloyster and decided to go with it. The first two at least make sense, but yeah.

[@Ludroth700]

@@RoseyPixels thanks I did not know about it

[@amaurystengel]

It's funny when you realize that some types that commonly have slow Pokemon also have many weaknesses. Ice is weak to Fire, Rock, Fighting and Steel; and Rock, even though it sounds like a solid type, has five weaknesses (Water, Grass, Fighting, Ground and Steel)! Maybe if these types offered more resistances, their defensive Pokemon could be more viable.

[@Avianar80]

I deadass had to double check which channel I was watching. Super happy to see you on here Moxie!

[@DrowzeeVEVO]

This video was made by Bastiodon bruh 💀

[@phatnana2379]

Naw... Bastiodon would be like "hey, you need BIG defensive stats on your team... Typing isn't as important as Toxapex would let you believe"

[@magdalenomartinezjr8805]

And edited by Aurorus, written by Golem and researched by Articuno

[@onecell5674]

​@@magdalenomartinezjr8805to be fair to golem it isn't really ever used for its defense stat

[@obichukwu9093]

It would also be written by Milotic and Blissey.

[@zacharyseiders5793]

The big thing Articuno has in a snow team, that the others can't do, is the Snow Cloak. In addition to every other buff. Because if they can't hit you, you don't got to tank the flames.

[@gineis8105]

Fun fact in some cases you actually deal more dmg by just using a special move instead of a physical fighting move against Aggron because his def is so much higher than his sp.def

[@Fr0stySn00ze]

In gen 1, Rock + Ground was actually great. Grass & fighting moves were sparse and not very powerful, so it was really only water & ice types that you had to worry about. Plus you could essentially hard-wall any electric type not named Raichu due to their limited movepools.

[@1stCallipostle]

You seem to forget that gen 1 is gen 1. Everyone and their mother has 90% accurate Blizzard. Rhydon is in the top 10 of viability, yes. But it's not really walling. Also every grass type has auto-crit razor leaf against the terrible Special stat of all the Rock/Grounds.

[@skeetermania3202]

@@1stCallipostle They also completely wall Zapdos and can switch into Hyper Beam.

[@Fr0stySn00ze]

@@1stCallipostle 1) ...I didn't forget? That's why I said that Ice and Water are the attacks you have to worry about. So basically Tauros & Starmie, with Cloyster & Slowbro being slightly less common. Lapras, Persian, and Articuno are pretty rare, but also notable. You aren't going to be switching in on those, but the thing is they are more than likely going to have to switch in on YOU, which sucks for them most of the time. 2) I said they wall *electric types* not named Raichu, not "wall any type". In fact they wall electrics such as Zapdos & Jolteon so well and are usually so strong power and coverage-wise that they easily force switches, which is a huge pain for your opponent. No one (not even their Blizzard-spamming checks) wants to come into a neutral STAB EQ or RS from Rhydon's 130 ATK, nor do they want to switch into Golem's Explosion. It's mainly why Rhydon runs Substitute so it can determine the right move to knock the opponent with after the switch. 3) "Every grass type has auto-crit razor leaf". Your last point is wrong. Eggy doesn't get it, Parasect doesn't get it, Tangela doesn't get it, and Vileplume only gets it from Tradebacks which are illegal. Only Venasaur and Victreebell get Razor Leaf in gen 1. Neither of which are very good in OU or even UU (they are currently wallowing in NU), and why beyond Eggy (which is great due to explosion, high special, & the psychic typing), grass types in gen 1 are pretty bad. Almost all of them have to rely on Mega Drain which has 40 base power and is useless outside of hitting rocks. Sometimes Eggy doesn't even run it due to using Psychic which does the job fine. Due to their ability to tank normal hits (especially predicted booms and Hyper Beam's), both walling/forcing switches 100% of the time against electrics bar Raichu, and being able to hit super hard back with their Quake-Slide coverage, Rock+Ground is a great type combo in gen 1. They're essentially THE Electric type answer.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

Seeing Serperior lose SpA from Leaf Storm in gen 7 is really cursed

[@tbone6032]

I hit 1800 in OU with aggron last gen. Metal burst sturdy with stealth rocks and the option to hit a massive custap berry headsmash is kind of fun

[@specs.weedle]

poor Aggron it’s been two generations for it where it hasn’t been able to bypass its otherwise bad defensive typing and it’s insulting how it still isn’t in gen 9 despite it being very well suited to utilize terastallization

[@MirageIslander]

at least it got a mega that fixed it for a short time aurorus has nothing :(

[@falxblade1352]

...why did aurorus and tyrantrum not get megas again? Actually, do ANY Kalos mons get megas?​@MirageIslander

[@youtube-kit9450]

Diancie did, lol. It's because after genwunners threw a hissy fit over gen 5, in gen 6 gamefreak hardcore changed course to pander to genwunners as hard as possible to the absolute detriment of the region and its mons. You get the Kanto starters super early. They can mega evolve. Kalos starters can't. You basically get a Lapras and a Snorlax thrown your way. This is why you can get all the Kanto legendaries in Kalos while Kalos itself has only 3 legendary pokémon. Who can mega-evolve? Not the Kalos legends, it's Mewtwo, and he has two of them. Guess what fossil can mega evolve. Nope, not the Kalos ones. It's kantonian Aerodactyl. The more you look at Kalos, the more you see how absolutely desperate GF was to pander to genwunners and how much it hurt Kalos pokémon. Luckily, Pokémon Z-A will fix many, many of these issues with Kalos... probably. It's crazy how badly they f'd up pandering in this game vs. in gen 7, where they arguably pandered even harder with the pokémon league stuff, various Kanto pokémon getting regional forms, the prot coming from Kanto, the Kantonian gym etc. etc. but they still put so much focus on Alola itself and its pokémon outside of the totem Raticate (who even then, is showing off the new regional form mechanic). Aand ofc in gen 8, they immediately f'd it up again by making Leon's ace a fucking Charizard and not giving the Galar starters G-Max forms until much later.

[@joshuakim5240]

One thing i've noticed is that a lot badly typed defensive mons have over time become "counterattack" mons instead via Metal Burst, Foul Play, and Body Press access. Gamefreak itself has realized how unusable these mons are at defense due to how garbage their typing is for that role so they retconned them into slow counter-offense mons instead, which really aren't much better since it's not hard to work around these.

[@baxterbruce9827]

What was even the goal of giving such bad typings anyway? It's a genuinely baffling move Like, wouldn't you want a defensively specced Mon to at least not have a typing that hurts it?

[@ryanvandoren1519]

It aint much, but its honest work.

[@KeDe1606]

@@baxterbruce9827you could argue that, in the earlier gens (3-4), with mons like Aggron, Bastiodon, and especially the Regis, it’s just a case of them prioritizing the „theme“ over competitive viability. The competitive scene was nowhere near as big/influential as it is today, so the fact that Rock and Ice are arguably the two worst defensive types in the game didn’t really matter all that much. They *sounded* like they would be incredible, defensively speaking, and that’s all they cared about. That excuse doesn’t fly for current mons like the two Avaluggs (but especially the Hisuian version), Auroras, Klawf and Wo-Chien though. No clue what happened there

[@baxterbruce9827]

@@KeDe1606 I don't even see much that tells me rock for Aggron though, I see more just for Steel, maybe like, Steel/Fighting (And how cool would THAT be?)

[@KeDe1606]

@@baxterbruce9827according to another comment here, the rock typing is apparently supposed to represent unrefined iron ore, which then gets refined after mega evolving (hence the removal of the rock type). Or, again, it’s just that rock seems like a „hard and strong“ type, befitting of a „hard and strong“ Pokémon. And yeah, having it be a steel + fighting mon does sound awesome, even if it’s still not that great of a defensive typing. Especially considering that the only steel + fighting types we have now are… pretty mediocre. Lucario, Cobalion and Zamazenta. What a… motley crew, that bunch

[@hug-the-raccoon]

It's crazy that I found Moxie a couple months prior, and now you're collabing.

[@MrFlame-zk5cy]

I'm surprised you guys didn't talk about the amazing "improvements" made by hisuian avalugg

[@iantaakalla8180]

Honestly, I think that speaks the loudest. Hisuian Avalugg exists to look cinematic for a Noble Battle and that’s it.

[@eeeeee-nk7ts]

I got into this video thinking "Well, I've seen enough Moxie Boosted, I'm gonna watch another pokemon youtuber" just to find this ._.

[@mrtheminecraftminer1]

YOOOO MOXIE!!!!

[@horizonbumpy2828]

"What if you wanted a wall but GF said steel/rock" Just use a different high defense pokemon that doesn't have that typing...

[@Stairwayafter]

There is a pokemon fangame that grabbed every steel/rock type and changed the typing to something else. Ex. Bastidon is pure steel with buffed hp and recovery, absolutely busted wall or aggron who is now steel/dragon

[@liqid4171]

whats the fangame called

[@Stairwayafter]

@@liqid4171 eternal order, the game is done and can be played on mobile however it's an old version so to get the full game, play it on PC.

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

I’m looking these up on a type calculator, and I think Ice 3:12 types would do well if they had more logical resistances… WATER, FLYING, GRASS and BUG types at least on top of their sole native resistance to ICE.

[@sluggknight7130]

wo chien's problems would be solved if it were a dark poison type

[@samiamrg7]

In my persobal experience (playing rom-hacks blind), I find Normal types to be quite reliable due to possessing only 1 weakness rather than weak due to having no resistances. It is harder to be surprised by a super-effective coverage move, and many normal types also have pretty wide move pools, making them fairly flexible.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Yeah, that's because you play romhacks blindly, which isn't even remotely close to normal gameplay.

[@theantibulliranger1580]

Hurts to see my favorite pokemon on the thumbnail. It’s fine though, the multiple quad weaknesses are there to balance how badass Aggron’s design is.

[@IronDino]

I think if Ice had one more resistance (maybe to Grass), it could be far more viable. Rock should also resist Electric (akin to how Ground is immune to Electric), which wouldn't help Rock/Steel's x4 Ground AND Fighting weakness but that's what Tera-Flying is for.

[@IronDino]

Also, if Ice types got a type specific recovery move akin to Shore Up (or maybe even Rest). Something like 'Cyrogenesis', which could either: 1. Recovers 1/2 HP in Clear Skies, 3/4 HP in Snow, and 1/4 HP in all other weather (or maybe just Sun). OR 2. User Freezes themselves, recovers all HP, and increases Defense and Special Defense by one stage. After two turns, they defrost and their Speed is decreased by one stage.

[@IronDino]

Finally, if there was a Steel move called 'Mass Damper' that essentially nullifed Ground (and Flying) type moves for the turn, boosting the used Defense and Special Defense instead. It would make it risky to run Earthquake (a spread move that would be nullified against both teammates). Or a Rock or Steel type move called 'Foundation' that acted like No Retreat but instead of increasing every stat, drastically boosted Defense and Special Defense at the cost of switching.

[@baxterbruce9827]

The Aggron Theorem? Avalugg Theorem? Hisuian Avalugg Theorem? Articuno Theorem (Actually, maybe that one is "Why Legendaries aren't necessarily good")?

[@flyingoctopus4304]

Bastiodon Theorem seems the most obvious pick here, especially since we already have a Rampardos Theorem. Edit; O wait, forgot we already have that one, Aggron Theorem is probably best since it's Mega Evo shows exactly why.

[@Borax_Sensei]

FSG thank you for uploading so much you have helped me mentally and physically I finally started to love myself and I stopped biting myself now because of your videos.

[@peterpop-off]

If this was a trial for a new narrarator, they're very good 👍

[@MoxieBoosted]

Nah just a collab

[@jessehutchings]

Thunder Wave, Iron Head, Rock Slide Focus Band + Sturdy Aggron in GEN6 is actually crazy

[@evilyoshimaster]

Man, Ice Type design philosophy bugs me, because Ice is genuinely a strong typing when used offensively, but Gamefreak is just DETERMINED to keep making Ice Type walls that NEVER work. Instead of working off of the successes Ice Type has had, like Weavile and Chien-Po.

[@youtube-kit9450]

It's insane how few fast ice types we have. If we take the absolutely not-fast 80 as a benchmark, the following ice type pokémon from the first 7 gens pass it: Articuno (85) Kyurem (95) Jynx (95) Cryogonal (105) Alolan Ninetales (109) Froslass (110) Sneasel (115) Weavile (125) ... And that's I think *it.*

[@JelloBread]

The moment you brought up Aggron, the only thing that came up to mind was "THE WALL! THE WALL! THE WALL!"

[@arnae9532]

Saying Normal is a bad defensive typing because it only has a single immunity seems a bit wrong. The intro has an emphasis on resistances when clearly weaknesses are also important. The video precisely shows Steel/Rock, which has more resistances than most other type combinations but is ruined by its weaknesses. Other pokemon like Snorlax and Porygon 2 have succeeded in certain metagames thanks to only having a single weakness. If you needed an example of an exception that has some defensive capabilities despite a bad typing, i would say Tyranitar, Garganacl or Avalugg are better examples than Blissey

[@Goldeneye3336]

No, lax succeeded as setup or sweeper. P2 always succeeds on Trick Room team thanks to eviolite. Typing is not why you pick them. You have ot judge the whole kit.

[@arnae9532]

@@Goldeneye3336 They both need to be able to take hits well enough in order to function. In doubles overly defensive playstyles don't work, so having a good defensive typing serves as an enabler for a more persistent attacker or a more reliable utility role. In previous gen singles, middle tiers like NU-UU, would often have bulky normal types as viable options. You don't see this that often with actual bad types like rock. Normal on its own is horrible offensively, but is a usable defensive type.

[@Goldeneye3336]

@@arnae9532 You lost me at overly defensive playstyle not working in Doubles. I can't think you're serious past this statement sorry. Bad player mentality and it's okay. room for everyone in Pokemon, just not for you in competitive.

[@notstampgoat]

17:06 I was so confused as to why they were showing Moxie Boosted's face when they said "me" and I STILL didn't realize 😭😭😭 I watch so much of these 2 it didn't even register

[@cv7368]

I feel like Gamefreak keeps trying to balance pokemon with good defense stats by giving them terrible typings, but don't realize that typing is pretty much the only thing that matters when being defensive. Quagsire and Swampert don't have amazing stats but are great walls because they have good typings.

[@rkvlegacy9206]

I could imagine when Megas return, Mega Aggron could make use of Sinistcha hospitality or even Cresselia support to heal status.

[@freynaise]

Nemona thumbnail 10/10

[@nv_mj]

Atleast they did aggron somwhat right through his mega. Kinda wish they removed like 20 from his speed and 20 from his spatk and gave it to his special defence

[@hen883]

This narrator is pretty cool he should make a yt channel and bring wo chien to every regional

[@598019001]

As an Ice enjoyer an Canadian, I am still kinda salty that Ice only resists itself. All of its weakness and strengths makes sense, Except for its resistances. Why Doesn't it resist water? If you dump water on ice, It just turns into more Ice later! Why can't it resist poison? How are you poisoning Ice?! 10 year old me was salty, and 14 years later, I am STILL salty!

[@abraham-kun4144]

Aggron being a Rock-type doesn't make sense because he has no rock parts on his body, and his mega fixed that removing the non-sensical Rock-type, in Gen 8, it's expected to remove the Rock typing, but it didn't.

[@joshuakim5240]

The Rock typing is meant to a reference to iron ore, and its mega evolution "refines" the ore into pure Steel. It still absolutely screws over Aggron but there is at least some thematic premise for screwing it over.

[@abraham-kun4144]

@@joshuakim5240 No, it doesn't, because if the Rock-typing was removed, actually it improved greatly his viability as a offensive tanker.

[@KeDe1606]

⁠@@abraham-kun4144(they meant that the partial rock typing was screwing it over, not it‘s removal)

[@CTback]

Ground/Steel 4 weaknesses (0 4x weaknesses) inc. a weakness against...ground? 1 immunity 8 resistances (1 .25 resistance) inc. a resistance against...steel?

[@skeetermania3202]

@@abraham-kun4144 Do recall that not everyone plays the game competitively.

[@johnnyp1986]

Chien-Pao has a horrible typing but is saved by its ability, speed, and attack prowess 😮‍💨

[@MultiWolfLink]

Aggron has been my favorite pokemon since ruby, he has and always will be my melted nuclear reactor ruined by earthquakes 😭🙏

[@double2254]

Awesome seeing the avalug theorem, would love to see the reverse with offensive Pokémon excelling because of their typing, either offensively or defensively

[@MSCDonkeyKong]

10:15 I like to think that being both a rock and steel implies that in the spots where they're overlapping, there's a structural weakness that can be exploited.

[@danielmaynard239]

I think Iron Boulder's typing is really good, since it's a Rock type that is neutral to Fighting and can strike back with STAB Zen Headbutt, and it even has a *100% accurate Rock STAB*

[@youtube-kit9450]

It also helps that Iron Boulder and Terrakion are *fucking fast* which helps their typing's obvious offensive slant.

[@mrmacura3421]

To be fair, Ice is clearly not meant to be a defensive type. And these days there are only very few Ice type pokemon who cannot be used offensively. Cloyster, Lapras and even Aurorus can quickly set up given the opportunity, g-Darmanitan, a-Ninetales, Cryogonal and Weavile are pretty strong and fast already and Beartic, a-Sandslash and Cetitan have slush rush. Abomasnow and Vanilluxe benefit a lot from choice scarf. The only ones I can think of who really have very little offensive potential are Avalugg (at least it gets sturdy) and Dewgong, who is decent defensively because of the additional water typing and thick fat. All things considered Ice may not be as adaptable as other types but the one thing it does well (offense) it does really well. You just have to train your pokemon the right way.

[@harryf9885]

Half of these Pokémon are also ruined by lack of recovery outside of rest. Not having recovery is huge, even Pokemon with strong defensive stats and above average defensive typing like Zamazenta Crowned (8 resistances including quad resistances to bug(u-turn) and rock, immunity to poison) can be ruined by lack of reliable recovery (Zamazenta C is extra screwed by inability to hold recovery item). If they want to keep making defensive rock and ice types they need to at least give them recovery.

[@skeetermania3202]

Why is that? What’s wrong with having a weakness to balance out an otherwise strong defensive profile?

[@Luna-wf5ok]

This is absolutely insane I literally JUST started watching Moxie because me and my roomate googled "why do people hate fluttermane?"

[@TehDompie]

I forgot this was a FSG vid until the end lol wow

[@foundthenlost904]

I've been waiting ever since the Gholdengo Theorem for this collab. What a usually good video

[@lemomar]

I wasn’t expecting a Moxie jumpscare haha

[@ruiribeiro8010]

Frosmoth is a menace when Terrastalized, that alone is testament to this enough

[@sryberg16]

Popped-off when I heard Moxie Boosted’s voice

[@Qaos]

Given the upload date, I was fully expecting this video to be "Just look at Swampert! It's utterly ruined by its *quadruple* weakness to Grass!" and similar sentences

[@CoffeeHype7356]

The thumbnail is way too god lmao

[@tktyga77]

Maybe Crabominable, given its slow & bulky approach to its offensive typing, severely held back by its equally terrible defensive merit despite its decent Special Defense

[@justarandompurplefox3243]

I still insist bug is a slept-on defense type, especially on certain dual types like Scizor

[@baxterbruce9827]

It has a few nice matchups, and has surprisingly good synergy with Steel, but Bug's issue has always been the offensive equivalent of Steel's defense (Too many resistances), which has ALWAYS been one of its biggest issues

[@danfurtado9158]

Depends on the dual type bug steel bug water are nice. I like its offense better even if its not great. Dark and psychic are pretty useful grass is ok.

[@Jaedster]

What makes this more funny is that moxie boosted made a joke about being on the wrong channel before 😂

[@electricduo4802]

I have been watching Moxie and false swipe gaming a lot, I didn't realize that it was Moxie on a false swipe gaming video

[@Aldrius]

I think quad weaknesses are just... too punishing and really limit a lot of pokemon. I think the benefit of giving Tyranitar, Salamence and such these massive achilles heels is offset by how bad it makes so many REALLY iconic pokemon. Like I think it's cool that some types are designed to be stronger offensively, or defensively, or fill special niches. That's cool. Especially when unique moves are brought into play. But when it just makes defensive walls outright useless... I dunno, 400% is just a lot of extra damage. I think if quad effective moves were... even 300%, but maybe more like 225-250% damage, that'd be kind of a fair change.

[@Goldeneye3336]

it only punishes bad players. which is quite fine competitively.

[@Aldrius]

@@Goldeneye3336 No? What does this comment even mean? Being a good player doesn't suddenly make you not 4x weak to attacks. It literally makes so many pokemon unusable. You can't use a defensive pokemon that are that vulnerable.

[@Goldeneye3336]

@@Aldrius Yes you can. You have the perspective of a bad competitive player so you think of these weaknesses purely as a negative. When you get comfortable into prediction, flowchart and matchups, these ''weaknesses'' become parts of your win condition. The simple existence of a 4x weakness thought as a bad thing shows where you currently are. One day you'll end up judging the Pokemon for what it is, a fully fonctioning set of stats piloted by a player. Difference between competent and amateur is often not spoken about or dismissed.

[@edgargaebolg9307]

Yeah no. You can be the best player in the world and you're not saving H-Lugg from being awful

[@Aldrius]

@Goldeneye3336 this is such utter nonsense. Like quad weaknesses are part of the game, obviously, but they make so many iconic pokemon *so* weak. Good competitive players just don't use these pokemon. And that's becoming increasingly true as they add new strong pokemon that don't have these exploitable weaknesses.

[@jazzercise300]

I play singles, mostly ADV OU, but the 4 ice move, choice specs articuno behind aurora veil and snow is insane and thematic. Feels like a pokemon a in game gym leader would use. One of the coolest strategies ive ever seen no pun intended. In ADV all articuno does for me is heal bell support and swampert check. Makes a great SpDef core along with Hariyama and Flygon. Kind of a fun, alternative defensive core when you get tired of SkarmBliss. Edit: wo chien makes me sad too

[@dejonjanuary488]

You know when things are going crazy its nice just to have 'the usual narrator yes definitely the we always had' just for normalcy

[@NivramAxuf]

Rock Steel types most all have sturdy which means they can always take at least 1 hit (outside war criminals like rapid Urshifu, mold breaker, etc) and thus my favorite Aggron set is sturdy metal burst custap berry endeavor. But it's very gimmicky and can be played around in best of 3s/my friends who have had to fight it way too many times, it'll be sad if you don't lead them and they set rocks. Anyways, rock is a pretty aggressive typing and all the rock steels are very slow, but that's what made Stakataka a meta threat, he can set his own trick room and has great bulk and wide guard doesn't hurt.

[@longdang1119]

Actually, I think it was the original intention. Pokemon was more like an Adventure game back then. Every gym and every pokemon felt like a challenge. PvP wasn't really popular and esports didn't even exist. For thr super bulky pokemon, they wanted them to have a weakness. A lethal weakness. So you'll find it super difficult to kill if you don't find the weakness. But when you find it, just one hit to end it all.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Someone gets it. These games were never balanced for high level competitive play, and that's not in and of itself, a bad thing.