Delve Detox Ep 75 - Rugs: A Love Story! | OSR Post-Session Discussion!

SPOILERS ABOUND! Watch or listen to the full session first!
Join the boyz as we wind down for a few minutes immediately after the session ended!
In relation to the events of the session, we chat about the utility of rugs, metagaming XP gain, disdain for the lowly copper piece, and how to invest huge amounts of wealth!
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[@guerintueno2066]

One thing that the team hasn’t had to deal with yet, that would radically upset the current dynamic of having a high level character shepherd lower lever characters through a delve to get an XP boost would be having the higher level character die…. Imagine if Av or Mort fell foul of a save or die poison? Or a 80ft pit trap? Then watch the lower level struggle…

[@hangarflying]

Re: the rule about not skipping levels: it’s there for precisely the reason you guys find yourselves in: you found a crap load of treasure that could potentially allow multiple levels of level ups. The rule is there to prevent rapid level skips. Re: fractional money. Wasting time is precisely the point that it’s there. Though there is still a conflation of something taking a lot of time in game has to take a lot of time in the real world. It’s a time sink in-game to sort the coins and only take the good ones: do you want to take the time to sort the money and risk a wandering monster, or not waste the time and just fill the sacks with coins knowing that crap coins are going to be mixed in. It’ll take all of maybe 30 seconds real-world to have that accomplished and make relevant checks.

[@dgrayk]

Great feedback & I def agree on paper! To focus my point a bit: the issue I take most w/ inflationary/deflationary design is it inevitably reaches a threshold where the inconvenience is moot (nevermind boring), so people abandon the system entirely. Design consequences need to generate fun rather than postpone or bridge it. Any design that leads to non-use once someone accrues sufficient power ceases to exist within the design ecosystem (and u might argue never meaningfully did, else this wouldnt occur). See Also: "If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the poor." To solve this people generally adjust When/How that threshold occurs, but this yields a ton of balance-wriggling that misses the forest for the trees. It rarely solves the core problem: theres no way to prevent vertical power scaling from creating obsolescence b/c its intrinsically designed to do so (theres a larger convo here on economies hahaha). I totally agree Time + Risk is one of the greatest fun engines in OSR, id just wager theres a better expression than banking-simulation.

[@douglashorton1368]

The teleportation roulette idea is REALLY fun!

[@jaybakata5566]

Oh yeah, it is delve detox time baby! I love all videos that 3d6 Down The Line does. OMG Mike, the A-team reference, classic! Skipping levels, totally worth it. Great idea in theory Matt. What happens when you play the character that has enough xp to gain another level, from the previous session, and you run into a trap/hazard/combat/etc that kills the character by 1 hp? Dice are random and all it takes is one more hp than you have, now all that "wasted" xp is actually wasted because that character is gone. Mike, I think the reason it is in the design is for players to learn to play their characters. I have played in groups where we got to start at 3rd level, and people don't know the abilities/powers/etc that they have because they never played the character up and learned about them. Also, to give the players themselves more experience. Just like you took note that, "this area has a lot of traps" so you had your character checking floors, walls, and ceilings. I basically believe it is for new/inexperienced players. Water bending spell?

[@BaltoBruiser]

This detox had so many threads with the use of the rugs, the pile of treasure, and then magical research. Great job fellas! So appreciate that you spend the extra time sharing these insights!

[@MrNathanlock]

I love these detox sessions so much. There’s another rich dimension added to the game because of it. I know in my own game there’s a kind of organic detox session after the game ands and everyone is packing up to leave. However watching these each week makes me think there’s a good argument to formalize those types of discussions and build 10-30 minutes into the session time to discuss what happened after the game session ends. I don’t know of many games that do this. Thanks for the inspiration!

[@michaelmorrison8679]

Yeah. Before we started the detoxes we would spend 30 minutes talking about the game post session… at one point we were just like let’s keep rolling

[@magdaleneabiuso65]

I think that something to think about is that Arden Vul is loaded with treasure calibrated with the assumption that players will need to pay for training to level up. Huge amounts of money are an interesting conundrum for sure.

[@RussellHoyle]

Exciting times! Very interested in where the PCs will head next, with new toys and levels!

[@rrcabr]

Interesting game design discussion here guys. Honestly I feel like this week's Haul is really gonna change the way you interact with the dungeon, very exciting!

[@Dirus-Nex]

I think a great investment would be to build a tower or re-fortifying The tower that’s down by where the falls hit the ground level. Create a base that you know is a safe Haven and you have means of access to even if you don’t want to be inside of Arden Vul. You could even maybe convince the lady of Gosterwick to give you a deed/title to that land after you bring back the “Butt” note lol. If you stay in AV you need to really get a good bunker with no other factions. Maybe even clear the monkey area and make the whole level yours

[@roygoodman1077]

I think, when speaking of rules that seem odd or otherwise out of place. All the rules in the game were designed to answer a particular question that came up during play.

[@jfs651]

There was originally talk about building a fortification on the surface with all that gold but now that the surface is instant death for the AV Club a plan b is needed.

[@jbloodwo]

Figuring out how to control the “death drones/orbs” is the key to roast dragon for dinner…

[@warduke42]

@@jbloodwo Oh, I'm so there for that.

[@derekf_ny5669]

The fire portal plus the rugs would be one heck of a combo. Gosterwick is easily reachable at that point. Not sure if Craz patrols Gosterwick though. Theres gotta be a way back into the dungeon from Gosterwick somewhere too. Can’t wait for the next episode to drop. Literally anything these guys do with the rugs is gonna be exciting. Mabye they will end Garalad, who knows. Another outstanding episode.

[@kylegraywolf]

So much good stuff in this one, which isn't surprising given the session: 1. I'm curious if the carpets work when they are rolled up, or if they have to be laid out. Seems like it could throw extra wrinkles in heist shenanigans. 2. I'm with David on coin denominations, I like just using "coin". However, the troll that I try to keep buried deep inside myself likes the idea of running an adventure in the tomb of a copper-lord. All hordes found within are copper (or whatever small denomination), forcing characters to deal with the weight versus risk puzzle. 3. I'm not sure if it was older editions, or if I've just read about the houserule several times, but there is that table people use to roll on for when they get to the end of the session and have to return to town (per the playstyle). Said table basically tells you how much of your collected loot actually made it out of the dungeon, or what was lost on the way trying to escape back to town. I like that it gives stakes to delving deeper, while not making players have to manage their time to make the return trip (unless they are into that sort of thing). 4. Referencing Souls is another dopamine hit to my already saturated brain, I love it.

[@3D6DTL]

Rugs need to be rolled out flat to be functional.

[@kylegraywolf]

@@3D6DTL perfect🤌

[@davegluckman7832]

I have seen the table you mentioned in #3 used for open tables where the group -must- return to the safe haven at the end of every session.

[@chungbertflabbergast5995]

Tomb of the Copper-Lord is a delightful, evil idea.

[@pedrobernardo5887]

I believe the reason for XP waste rules is that players should face dangers at every character level to "earn" the next level. Levels were 'titles' in early D&D, so it had a certain status to it.

[@Metal_Horror]

"How easy do you think it is to get a dragon to swallow a carpet?" Genius. 😈 However, I should point out that his breath isn't just bad; it's downright caustic. Well, it's at least foul and gas like. I wouldn't be surprised if his digestive juices alone would melt or otherwise break down an intrepid adventurer.

[@fiendishtobacco]

Spending gold for experience by training player characters can be a thing. It solves the issue of having too much gold.

[@3D6DTL]

In my opinion, that’s a non-fun tax. It siphons gold in exchange for a benefit that they are already enjoying.

[@jaybakata5566]

@@3D6DTL Totally agree with you Jon. I was never a fan of, oh your a magic user and all you do with your money is get more spells, scrolls, etc. And now you have to spend even more money to get training to learn how to do those things. The experience of doing the thing is giving you the "training" you need to level up. And you have to travel to this bustling capital and seek out "Bob the trainer" to get the training you need. To me that is not fun, it is bookkeeping for bookkeeping sake. I don't know about others, but I play the game to have fun. Not stress out and play all of the boring parts. I have to live stress and boring parts. The game is for fun/entertainment.