The Pros and Cons of Joining a VTuber Agency

Becoming an indie or opting to join an agency is one hell of an important question for many aspiring VTubers. Of course, the answer to that question is based entirely on your circumstance and what you need, but if you have second thoughts. This video is for you.
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[@cinnanyan]

One con of joining an agency is that they might be abusive or incompetent. Game Club Project was once one of the most viewed and loved VTuber channels, but the managing company Unlimited treated the talents so poorly that they all quit, and when they came back the agency made the problem even worse by replacing them. WACTOR, who manage quite a few Spanish language VTubers, is also known for repeated scandals and blunders.

[@WillLI05]

I feel like that is kinda something that doesn't need to be said in a video like this though. Because that's less about "How agencies operate" and more about "Did you know sometimes people are trash?" So I think the note about "Every agency has it's scandals so do your research" is enough.

[@CuriousNeon]

Ah, Game Club Project... what a sh!tshow it was...

[@cyav.e3234]

But that could be just any company in general you know? Not just specifically vtuber agency. Like... any company can be a bad and abusive company, but obviously not all of them are like that So it's not really something you should put in the cons of joining vtuber agency imo

[@Psych0boost]

Got any sources for WACTOR? Never heard about their oopsies until now

[@MadRabbit116]

@@Psych0boost they doxxed 3 of their talents iirc, that should be enough to google it

[@EpicEverz]

"As an indie, you're pretty much allowed to play any game you want" False. You just have the freedom to risk getting copyright strikes.

[@kholosimp]

People be like "indies can play whichever game they want" yet they mostly play Minecraft, Apex, Among us and any big games that don't need permission to begin with

[@kikitondo8390]

you are technically right. it kinda false sense of security because no one said "don't do that" to you.

[@blapblapblapblap]

@@kholosimp Some vtubers don't even play games and just stream 4 hours of them talking.

[@greed1914]

It's a risk, at least. I've seen indies stream games that agencies don't have permissions to stream, and I doubt the rights owners are ok with it. It's more likely they don't know because an indie with maybe 20 people watching isn't going to get noticed as easily

[@typehere6689]

This is acceptable, if this be roleplay heavy.

[@ChadEditor]

Just a little note about the copyright talking point. Not every company is the same. Vshojo acts more like a sponsor where they acquire pre-established creators vs other vtuber companies like hololive or niji. That's why the Vshojo streamers don't have to deal with the same copyright issues, and are more or less free to stream whatever game they choose.

[@lionelk.y7233]

Honestly if you're out of JP copyright for games is a not even an issue

[@legendarydigitize2523]

Cuz they are an american based vtuber agency And their fair use is at least more lenient than whatever is going on in japan where their government is shit regarding fair use

[@littleboss2006]

@@lionelk.y7233 Kinda agree, i once argue with fucking Vshojo simp who labelled Niji/Holo company or anything other than Western Vtuber agency as Devil Incarnate slaving all their talent with contract that limit things.

[@MotoroidARFC]

@@Frame206a yup. If they gain a streamer operating in Japan, that streamer will have to comply with JP laws and regulations.

[@Aegis---]

pretty sure its because they arent japanese based like holo or niji, japanese copyright laws are a nightmare

[@nestorgraciano3316]

I'll add Pro: Secure a future If for some reason you don't want continue in the company and want be a Freelancer again, your fanbase will follow you Example: Kson won't be as popular if she don't have her past fanbase if she won't have work on a company

[@peachypie8734]

Same with Rushia

[@NaoNakashima]

This. Obviously you will loose huge amount of subs, but loyal fans will follow you no matter what is your "name" or what avatar you have.

[@tribopower]

This is actually one of the biggest pro's in my opinion, it gives that safe net that if you don't really like the company at all or the contract benefits/restrictions you can always leave, and be better off than before

[@raffimolero64]

rebirth 2

[@white_tower_cat]

Tears of denial basically

[@lucia_candela]

A little bit addition from me: If you join an agency, playing _any_ strategy games involving real countries or political entities is risky. It would either invite some angry chauvinists or worse, poke at some giant countries that really loves to curse at anything that put them into a negative light (including destroying the said country in a game). Maybe this is why a lot of agency VTubers didn't even try to play any kind of strategy games (RTS, turn-based, grand strategy, etc) aside from "not interested in such games" reason. I only have seen Moona playing AoE II DE and that's it from VTubers in a big agency.

[@ExtremeBoyheat]

Crusader Kings comes to mind, fantastic game for the roleplaying and character development, awful for any viewers who love to get their pitchforks.

[@pakxenon]

Sigh... I can only get my Civilzation itch from PotatoMcWhiskey then.

[@typehere6689]

Strat games with more fantastic settings, however, could remain on the cards.

[@Philweasel]

Again I feel this is less an "agency" thing, and more a "fame" thing. These sort of floating trolls target anything in their eyeline, which means if you have any sort of mainstream trending you will attract their attention.

[@LonesomeDevil]

To be fair, AoE2 is way more gameplay-focused than history-focused. Only the Campaigns try to depict an historical narrative, but other than that, you can dissociate the game from reality pretty easily. Funny enough, Japan is the only country I don't remember seeing a vocal AoE2 community from, actually. Even the countries with the reputation of being more sensitive about their portrayal have one. That's probably the real reason why you don't see that game played often within Japanese VTubing companies.

[@andysatrioajie7886]

so many reference "if you know you know" and this is why i sub you, the research done absolutely match with what i know personally. so if anybody wanted to join agency i implore people to research the agency you wanted to join.

[@FrarmerFrank]

50% of everything Its the real reason why Coco/Kson bailed on,Hololive when her contract was about to rollover

[@YuuChu]

Awesome Video! Since I started VTubing I always wanted to join an agency. I prefer the extra security and I actually like it when people tell me what to do or give me re assurance. It's obvious that you get some pay cuts as the agency needs money as well and actually invests in you before you even stream by giving you a model and the proper tech such as an iPhone, so it's only fair in my opinion. My only concern is that there are many fanmade VTuber groups out there or some that just started, promose a lot and then fail becuase of controversies and not holding up to the promises they made. If someone joins them and then fails because the agency wasn't serious, it can discourage them and damage their mentality because its probably not their fault. I don't remember the name but there was this VTuber group a few months a go on Twitter that was unprofessional and treated the talents like shit... :( I think you have to see whats best for you, both ways have good and bad sides. Personally, I would prefer joining an agency and I already applied to the ones mentioned in the Video! I think this Video makes it clear for many people that aren't sure what they want or wich way they should go!

[@legendarydigitize2523]

Oh nice an actual vtuber commenting I wish you good luck that you are able to join such agencies in the future :)

[@columbien10]

I wish you luck with joining an agency if you consider it the best step for you! Just a small reminder to not make it too public that you are trying to apply to an agency since some agencies avoid people who say they wanna join publicly

[@tafferine388]

I’ve seen you around on twt with my mutuals so it’s refreshing to see someone I recognize here ! Gl on your streaming!

[@YuuChu]

@@legendarydigitize2523 Thank you very much!

[@YuuChu]

@@columbien10 Thank you! Its the first time I mentioned here and I don't plan to say where exactly I appy for said reason :>

[@user-fp9lp7ji5j]

I'd like to point out something which I've never seen anyone mention in detail anywhere. The cuts which big companies takes are not all for their own profit(I know you didn't make such a statement in this video, but this is more for the wider audience who may have this impression). The cuts are used so that companies can(but not limited to): pay their working staff(management/editors/support etc), used for promotions for Talents, commissioning for VTuber models(2D/3D), create new outfits, to create and produce merch, used for setting up events like Live concerts/3D Lives etc. Also, I don't know how much making a 3D Live costs, but for real concerts held at an actual venue in Japan usually results in a deficit(this knowledge is from outside of the VTubing community), because not only do you need to pay for renting the venue, you also need to pay for over 100 or 1000 staff(depending on venue size) who organize the Live with months and months of preparation, staff who do the lighting, stage direction, music engineers, bands, choreographers, dancers, you also need to pay the Ticket seller, physically get a stage made if the venue has an arena which does not have a pre-made stage. During Coco's video where she interviewed Yagoo, he revealed that his yearly salary was less than Coco's; meaning that he does not hog all the money and it is actually used for their talents. If this is all considered, I personally believe that the cuts for big agencies are well justified. The staffs who supports and delivers the talents and the company need to eat too. Other than that, thanks for all of your videos, you always deliver great content, and I appreciate the tremendous amount of time and effort you put into these videos.

[@ashchisalleh1454]

Glad someone see this, that why everytime hololive or vtuber from indie or company so happy to have one concert, small or big.

[@uteriel282]

thats what grinds me about corporate haters. every time they bring up the company cuts they pretend its all going towards shareholders and such while the talents are left with nothing. but in reality the companies wouldnt be able to support the talents without these cuts and the talents still make up to 10 times the avarage salary in their respective countries per month. and then there are companies like hololive that on top of bonus pay like superchats, memberships and merch sales also provide a fixed income for the talents to make sure everyone gets fairly compensated for their work.

[@AquilaPainWhy]

It's kinda to be expected that the cuts would go to promoting the talents, their future projects and the rest for the staffs but there just HAS to be company haters who don't listen to anything.

[@user-fp9lp7ji5j]

It's so true what you've all said I think people usually take and judge only what they can see on the surface, but don't take the time to think about what's going on in the background, which is a common aspect in every topic not just for VTubers. I guess because not many people talk about the behind the scenes in great detail, the knowledge isn't greatly known I hope my comment can give an insight to those who weren't aware of this previously

[@artios162]

Start running a company and you will soon found out it is a huge money sink. Like absolutely scary how much money a big company eat up just to keep itself running. I just gonna expand some of the stuff that the company might be needing money for. So let do simple maths, you got 20 talents, each of those talents gonna need a managers, let say you instead you group up 5 talents per managers so you only need 4, based salary of say $50K, that is already $200K down the drain. so all 20 of your talent average earning are $30,000 per talents per months which give you $600K. Sound a lot you say ? So how much of the cut is going to the license cost for the software, models, hardware, electrics, maintenance, office space, is the models the girls used rent ? bought ? percentages of those earning given to the artist ? Now you gonna need a few tech supports, accountants, a lawyer or two once you get into sponsoring and ads. Also you like the girl dancing all nicely on stage right ? Well those dance lesson need to be paid somehow no ? What about writing new original song that the fan call for so much ? That's right more money. You can technically say that those money spent will result in more money for the company and yes, that is technically correct but the amount of dead money needed just for keeping the company running is astronomical after factoring all the staff and tools required. Also the company need to keep at least a health reserve of liquidity in case KZbin suddenly decide to be a bastard for a few months so they can at least pay their staffs. You don't pay those cut to the corporate to see that money goes into Yagoo pocket, you do it so that they can keep giving you those fancy new toys that you will then put to used entertain (or squeezing depending on how you want to see it) your viewer of their worldly possession and in turn feed the massive corporation that make it possible (and also fattening Yagoo). Let be honest, a CEO "base" salary is nothing to go by if they follow the US way of CEO wages.

[@Platapart]

To the people watching this video who are trying to join an agency: I believe in you and wish you the best of luck.

[@DogooSlayer]

I think that "community" is both pro and a con. At one hand, you have extremely supportive fans that will do their best to help you with motivation. On the other hand, these fans (or at least a pretty significant number of them, especially if its an idol company like Hololive) will destroy you the moment you do something wrong according to Vtuber culture. Do I need to remind about the Mori and Connor situation? Die hard fans and simps are the ones who give the money, those are the ones who matter to company - money bringers, unfortunately.

[@DiabolicCrusher]

Eh, Calli and Connor thing was blown out of proportion and exaggerated for no reason imo.

[@divingradish]

what is this "VTuber culture" ?

[@DogooSlayer]

@@divingradish i like to call it "snowflake behavior"

[@DogooSlayer]

@@DiabolicCrusher The Tiawan incident. Rushia's fanbase turning against her. Nyanners and Nux Taku drama. I'm sure there are more examples, but I haven't followed Hololive history very thoroughly and never really was interested in any other agencies.

[@divingradish]

@@DogooSlayer so, "Vtuber culture" is "snowflake behavior"? What is the example of "something wrong according to Vtuber culture"?

[@YourTypicalMental]

The impression I get is the Vtuber/agency relationship is a lot more symbiotic then other entertainment industries. Like, the Vtuber can foster a loyal fanbase, but the agency provides that backbone. I've been wondering about this aspect of the industry for a while. Thanks so much, buddy! I'm glad I'm subscribed!

[@5boxes]

Speaking of agencies, there is also the small chance of encountering ones that are created to prey on individuals who don't know anything. (Such act was mentioned for a bit in the video.) So, remember to always do your research. It's literally just like job hunting. You won't want to join an MLM or something, right?

[@KhoiruunisaRF]

Because IT IS a job. It's not that hard to accept the reality, right?

[@troybasilan3531]

If the money cut is for the agency and the agency is "taking good care of you" that is never will be a cons. The management deserves it, so the people who do SC be proud that you are helping your oshi.

[@Rar830]

True, from what I've seen I they hire a professional artist and rigger to make your model, an iphone, new outfits, a platform, a manager and other staff. Also this comment: "As an indie, you're pretty much allowed to play any game you want" False. You just have the freedom to risk getting copyright strikes. it's not unusual for Hololive members to get banned, deleted etc. but everything always works out in the end. Also if Myth is anything to go by, if the talents want something they'll make it for them: Legs on table, Room art, april fools outfits, etc. Basically I agree, assuming your getting all these benefits, its well worth the pay cut, also I'm pretty Holomems get a monthly salary anyway, Im not sure if thats normal though.

[@c2dmkr252]

yeah, and keep in mind the cut doesen't just go to management but also all the other stuff the agencies handle. Its quite amazing to see that after the massive boost of income agencies like Hololive got after the 2020 Vtuber boom that we are now really seeing where all that money went. Not even taking account of the mass of merch for each member, the Nendoroid and other Anime figures, the semi regular new Vtuber models but even just the Link Your Wish concert must have cost an absolute fortune.

[@Eiensakura]

@@c2dmkr252 didn't Kson had to get a manager after going indie because she couldn't keep up with all the backend work?

[@c2dmkr252]

@@Eiensakura well the video did mention her getting her own manager so yeah, there is a lot of other crap other than strictly streaming that someone has to manage. Thumbnails, technical crap and other stuff adds quite a few manhours.

[@FrarmerFrank]

I think it was 30 seconds of Gura shaking her tail before her stream went back on air cause Hololive undid the DMCA strike that quickly as it was Marines music

[@theVtuberCh]

The copyright restrictions depends on where your company is based. Nijisanji and Hololive are based in Japan so have to work with approval. VSJ are US based so don’t have to.

[@AndersHass]

I would assume as an indie in Japan you would still need permissions. There is just less of a chance of getting a copyright strike.

[@Troz678]

Mostly bcuz they're japanese, culture stuff. i mean if the dev allowed it, then what stopping u

[@c2dmkr252]

@@AndersHass I think the important part is also being in a company, that's when its not just Nintendo coming at you for copyright (as they have done for years with other content creators). This is because in addition to the individual streamers who usually get away with streaming games for money that also a corporate entity is making money off their IP's and that is when they lose their sh*t. Feels pretty arbitrary considering agencies like Hololive did eventually get permission after getting struck heavily by the likes of Capcom seemingly without handing over much or any money for the permission.

[@Brainfryde]

I would have liked to see your take on the other agencies, such as Vshojo, where the support framework is a bit more ephemeral at best. Still better than solo work, but they definitely are not like the other large Japanese companies. The other Pro you left out was experience. Just look at Kson or Amelia Watson, who were experienced streamers before this, but have become the powerhouses they are today because of the experiences they had through an agency. Good coverage :)

[@oppaisuke5245]

I think rebirth and experience are basically the same...

[@dikusuca1149]

a lot of vtubers in agencies are already streamers before this tho...like being experienced is one of their requirements

[@FrarmerFrank]

True,usually, but Hololive's open call involvea a interview to we if you have a interactive personality and are able to sing (Ame being an exception cause Coco is a fan) A lot of the Indoneasian Division never heard of vtubers and Gura's VA worked as a reinactor in Disney Brazil before landing the job and there is only 1 picture of her sitting on a bed with her guitarr(Smol Brazilian girl) among a gaillian stock photos of sena howard if you are lucky with the "Gura real face,Brazil,Elie" search

[@tribopower]

@@FrarmerFrank how do you know Coco was a fan of Ame ? wouldn't it be the other way around ?

[@issackaiser]

@@tribopower it’s not that uncommon for a Hololive member to simp for other content creator before they joined Hololive. Heck, you can still see Ayunda Risu replies on Gura “old personality” which mean Risu was a fan of her. While idk if it was the other way around, it’s still plausible. Not too mention some of Hololive were brought into the company by a Hololive member (can’t remember who did who) 🤷‍♂️

[@megamage911]

Tbf about the Rushia situation, that could actually be a legal/ethics thing. If they kept up the channel, they'd be making money off of someone they fired, which I think could get them into trouble. With Coco and Kira, both of them made agreements with Cover that it was ok to keep up their channels, but that can only work when the split happens on amicable terms. So my guess is, even IF Cover wanted to keep up Rushia's content, they couldn't. But they probably also won't try and take down any re-uploads of any of it, which, I at least partly theorize is why they kept up the channel for a month past the firing, so fans could have enough time to archive all of it.

[@megamage911]

@@NAzo. I literally start my comment by "This COULD be" literally admitting that I don't know, this is just what I think MIGHT be the case, take a chill pill my dude. I never claimed to be any sort of authority here, just adding my own 2 cents. You're acting as if I claimed to be some sort of legal expert.

[@7acme7]

watches this video. confused on what to choose. makes a vtuber agency instead. debuts as a vtuber in your agency.

[@olafgurke4699]

Instructions unclear, started vtuber agency.

[@guilguis4820]

I like the use of the term "VTuber agency" because they are quite different from normal "streamer agencies" like Novo (Ammouranth) and Overworld Talent (Bunny_GIF, Momo Mischief and Saruei). Streamer agencies can give you the merch, outreach, sponsors and management without owning your content or your IP. I also include VShojo in this category because of their business model.

[@DannyJ3636]

Honey come on, a new depressed nousagi video just dropped

[@felyjelly]

Thanks for the advice!!!! Rly helpful for me :D

[@R_FAEL]

Lyrica and millie appearing right after each other :U

[@sovietyr1864]

I see no difference :)

[@patkundesu]

Two of my most favorite Vtubers… sadly one gremlin has graduated, but I’m glad another gremlin emerged! *wink wonk*

[@NuclearWintr]

To be fair, making 30k a month is still a lot of fucking money at the end of the day. It's more than I'll see on a paycheck.

[@Reymax164]

There's really nothing I can add to it… I guess thanks for the video ~ and there's alot of “If you know, you know.” 👀😆💔

[@butter6442]

Thank you depressed adorable rabbit! I always wanted to learn more about what these people go through. I wish you the best in your endeavors and will support you when you get the chance!

[@royrajagukguk2140]

They just should do what the Holo ID usually do. Donate from streamlabs, so Susan doesn't take the 30%

[@c2dmkr252]

yeah, I have always wondered why they still don't more universally use streamlabs, that's a decent bump to the income of the talent and the company yet only a couple of the Indo's use it.

[@gnouhp004]

A small disclaimer about copyrights. Being indie doesn't mean you 100% be able to play any game you want without being strike. Just because normally, indie streamer/youtuber are too small for the company to care. If for some reason those company decide to strike you then you're pretty much fucked, or you can fight them about fair use rights but you'll be on your own.

[@vxicepickxv]

Some games have modes designed for streaming, like Cyberpunk has a streamer mode with a different soundtrack than the default one.

[@sachitechless]

Everyone has their breaking point with limitations that agencies impost, and it's okay to not know them immediately. There is a lot of if you know you know to do with Nijisanji KR lately but a few of them had some breaking points from limitations they weren't even aware of or were imposed on them suddenly that pretty much convinced them to leave, especially given they made a pretty decent community amoungst themselves anyway. The graduates all seem to be doing well for themselves and each other, even if they aren't a part of 2434 anymore.

[@gudaograndorder54]

Love these vids dude really shows its no at all as easy as some people think, but all the info was well appreciated and explained thank you

[@alexpan3853]

as someone who has been thinking about starting to stream to join a company your videos always give the best insight and without cutting too much fluff, always love the content and thanks for the info

[@Uladzya]

I like that fact that you have decided to tell firstly about the cons and only after that about the pros. Because of that the video gives a good vibe after watching it, which is very important. Nicely done!

[@CEOByori]

Always an interesting video, much appreciated!

[@greed1914]

Whether an agency taking a share of revenue is worth it depends heavily on the balance of what they provide against that share. The publicity of being in hololive speaks for itself. It also provides a management staff, and a method for contacting artists and other creators. However, there are a lot of small agencies that can only do so much. Several of them have seen some changes lately, and it seems to come down to acknowledging the difference between a big and small agency. I think some of the small ones are really more of a branding thing where a handful of indies will be associated since a fan of one is more likely to at least watch another. Giving them half and maybe all they do is moderate chat wouldn't be worth it.

[@ElliotKeaton]

Meanwhile, one of the big ones (Hololive) didn't even hire chat moderators.

[@Mitulaa]

Even knowing all this already, it's still alwas great to watch your well thought through videos! Thank you, and keep up the great work, fellow rabbit hole dweller 😋👏

[@Oriansenshi]

More quality content, thanks for all the information! I really should look into more agencies and put together a new audition video.

[@_Pikahiiri_]

Awesome new content as always, my dude!

[@Reymax164]

Ohoho~ every new video from Nousagi is worth your time~

[@ilikehiking]

Always enjoy your videos! Thanks for the content, much love.

[@JGoofster]

As a VTuber, oh no that's more things to think about LOL But that aside, loved this video! It's always a pleasure seeing an upload notif from your channel!

[@lllOnSlAuGhTlll]

I might have missed it but a thing to keep in mind too is if you join an agency you have to keep in mind that you represent the agency and vice versa. ive seen a few times where vtubers get punished for things their agency has done. an example is vshojo.. if you are familiar with the current rumors i have to ask myself: wtf were they thinking? but yeah thanks for the video. appreciate your content :)

[@c2dmkr252]

wait, what current rumours? I know of the Nux situation from a bit ago, don't tell me they did something absolutely stupid again?

[@lllOnSlAuGhTlll]

@@c2dmkr252 dont even wanna mention names. IIRC its a dmca strike. thats all im sayin

[@hanzaryunosuke2832]

Nice vid as always mate, love ya content

[@AndersHass]

The copyright issue is more about the country than being part of an agency or not. So if you live in a place where the copyright laws are more lax you can stream any game but if you then join an agency located somewhere with not so lax copyright, say Japan, you then have to have permissions. I would assume even as an independent you would need permissions if you live in said country but the consequences are way more minimal given you are an individual and not a company.

[@kholosimp]

> Con 1: Copyright Tbh this isn't a corp agency problem, but rather the game distributor problem. Like give me 1 example of indie playing Bandai Namco games. The fact that the corp VTubers can stream the game or have Bandai Namco permission card in the first place is a miracle > Con 2: You don't own your stuff I agree that once you graduated or terminated, you no longer have your current VTuber model. That's why when you join an agency like Hololive or Nijisanji, you basically have to retire/suspend your indie channel or to some extent delete it as a whole and start over with a new one, so that when you eventually leave the corp, you can go back using your indie model like kson > Con 3: Limited Controls This is either a small pro or the biggest con depending on how hard they controlled the members. Like sure you are free to do anything, that is basic human rights. But there are consequences that can't be reverted if you did something bad (for example triggering China by openly supporting Taiwan or triggering America by saying offensive edgy jokes). So imo too much control is bad but no control is also bad. There should be balance that both agency and members can agree on and more importantly the agency should never abuse their power on members > Con 4: Money cuts I'd disagree with corp taking huge money from the members if that money doesn't go anywhere else other than CEO's pockets. So if for example Hololive takes that 30% revenue from members so that they can develop their HoloALT HoloEarth projects then we as fans will fully support it as long as the members don't have any problem with it Overall, these cons aren't even bad other than having restrictions comparing to being an indie and having antis (let's be real, once you are famous you will have at least 1 mega anti who despise you for eternity). The biggest con imo when you become an agency is that the agency itself has bad working environment, so if you want to join an agency, you should do many research on that agency to see how they treat the members and avoid getting into a black company

[@seniorwhite8324]

Mega agree on you on Con 4. It's highly reassuring to see the money they cut from talents in some form of improvement from the company and not just the CEO's pocket. I don't spend much (just memberships) but to see things like HoloALT and Earth, the quality of concerts they provide plus the merch that comes with it, their technology and facilities, sponsors and major collabs (marvel, convenience stores etc), calli's universal studios contract and many more. No wonder nobody really complain about it as long as the talents themselves are fine with it.

[@andrehashimoto8056]

The control aspect can be a B to actually be properly Balanced..... Triggering West Taiwan is a Given and tbh should be doubled down given more of those who react negatively to such incidents are like every Woke/SJW dumfuggy, only there to stir shit and get attention, ignore or laught at their presence. Triggering US people..... 99.9% of those triggerings are again, SJTardos or Woketardos wanting attention or damage the Vtuber's career out of spite...... Currently, best bet is DOUBLE down at anyone reeeing online about a Vtuber snark comment/joke that triggers them, will earn the fans respect instead of becoming a primary target for Woke harassment.

[@kholosimp]

@@andrehashimoto8056 Dude an indie got crucified on Twitter for accidentally said the N-word. Sure no one immediately stops you from saying it and assume you have super thick skin, but what about your other members and the agency itself ? Is it worth it to become a target for mass cancel culture ? Hololive and Nijisanji maybe too big to fall, but what about small agencies ? Can their fans outweigh the SJWs ?

[@lionelk.y7233]

@@seniorwhite8324 Honestly we can see where our support comes in Hololive rather easily Nijisanji is actively backed by a lot of backers so they basically start out with a big budget I think Somy is the most prominent backer for Niji Hololive as far as i can tell started at 0 it quite literally was a shot in the dark and turned out to be a massive succes

[@mitafutabach.grcproject8339]

the con1 thing i have an answer theres a few japanese indies playing Ace Combat without any problems (although its hard to find their channels)

[@isaiahwright4536]

Love your content bud always fun to watch your videos

[@Cirinity]

This was super helpful! I'll work even harder after watching your video

[@viljamtheninja]

I'd say joining a big agency like Hololive also grants a certain quality assurance. They of course only hire people they trust have the necessary talent and personality to be a successful VTuber, which pretty much guarantees that people will tune in and perhaps not judge you as hard if you mess up in the beginning by being too shy or something of the sort.

[@kazumiryuuken1814]

But that is more of a pro for the fans, not the vtuber, since if you don't have the skills they are looking for you won't get the chance to experience any of the other pros. But a pro related to the quality aspect is that you can get in to dancing and singing lessons through the agency, in the case of Hololive at least. So if you wanted to better those skills but didn't find the chance to work on them, a vtuber agency may help.

[@viljamtheninja]

@@kazumiryuuken1814 My point is that the quality assurance pretty much guarantees you a base audience even if you don't already have a name for yourself. Of course, you need to actually be talented, but I think that goes for both independent and agency VTubers if they want to make it. Edit: the singing and dancing lessons included are also a great point.

[@kikitondo8390]

i dont think they provide the lesson, but provide the contact for the leason and more cheaper services as corpo connection. except if it for corpo project...

[@uteriel282]

@@kikitondo8390 cover provides the opportunity and pays for the costs. its up to the talents however if they want to use that opportunity or not.

[@wat_aiwan]

9:39 Never thought Joji/Filthy Frank will be the good example of joining agency for rebirth. Well, it's indeed a great example (tho IDK about the case for vtuber). BTW, respect for his done both in TVFilthyFrank and 88Rising.

[@typehere6689]

Word on the street is a famous Pyro main is now in Nijisanji. It is, of course, word on the street.

[@MrTigracho]

@@typehere6689 yeah...

[@HybridHenderson]

Of course I spot Sonny Brisko when you said that part lmao

[@truck-kun5924]

I think community is a double edged sword. Yes there will be people who will support you but there's also will be antis. Hololive for example. İf you join it you will get a good community in the start. Like they reach hundreds of thousands of subs before debut. But you will also get a lot of antis who will wait you to do a mistake. They will hate you because they hate Hololive. You will get a community but also antis.

[@sirrowlininn2050]

True, but just becoming famous invites haters so you would just have to live with it. Difference being haters aren't usually as coordinated as antis.

[@YarugumaSou]

@@mono_log_ Compared to what? Bronies? Steven Universe shippers? Soyny fanboys? Genshin twittards?

[@naiknaik8812]

I feel like that's just a given even when doing indie

[@chetawanung-adjmagool9967]

@@mono_log_ They're a Japanese agency which markets their vtubers as idols. Of course, that alone is going to cultivate their fanbase into a great portion of gachikois and hyper-parasocial fans.

[@Aeririn]

honestly in the case of the mistakes when it comes to hololive specifically it's not even majority antis. It's just entitled toxic fans which happen to be a large chunk of hololive's fandom in general. Take Rushia like Nousagi mentioned. When she messed up a massive chunk of die hard fans, not antis, immediately turned on her and were worse than antis by sending death threats. They went from being the most loyal of fans read to kiss her feet and lick her toes if given the chance to wanting her dead for some percieved wrong doing that only existed in their heads. And sadly that's not exclusive to hololive either. Hololive just happens to have a much greater number of these type of people than most other places. Like Vox Akuma (also mentioned here) is in a similar situation with rabid fans sending death threats to anyone stepping on their "terf" (mainly Reimu Endou) so to speak. Antis can be ignored and pushed out of the community to a large extent, but the toxic die hard fan is the the worst since you can't get rid of your biggest supporter who pays the bills the most even while they want to linch your family (which I imagine must be hell on people's mental states....)

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

nice, thanks for listing the pros and cons.

[@Ihearvoicez]

I would say you'd need to be able to get along with others and really know how to do conflict resolution sometimes on your own. Because there are times people say or do things in colabs or in their own stream "for content" but really hurt or offend others to the point they don't want anything to do with you but because you're in the same company there will be times you will have to work together again. Having a tough skin to weather comments from chat is one thing but having to weather comments and barbs from within the company is why you hear of people getting depressed from bullying. Also you might have to face jealousy or crab in a bucket syndrome or maybe you'll have those feelings yourself when facing situations for the first time. Think about Salome blowing up even while others have grinded for years to only get a portion of her subscribers and viewer numbers.

[@ikigaiRys21]

😂😂😂😂 I love that Lyrica to Millie background transition 😂

[@hajimarinofantasia]

wake up babe new depressed nousagi video

[@grinnazeed]

Nice video, again, brother, keep it up! I believe telling this to the Vtuber community, is actually helpful, especially to those that actually wants to join in one of the agencies...

[@Miano_SEA]

Great video about the TLDR of an industry~

[@0Rlalu]

Amazing video! I feel like I learn a lot from you now when I think about it being a vtuber would be super stressful it’s like is it worth or not if I was a vtuber I would want creativity anyways awesome video

[@cpttankerjoe]

One of my favorite things about Shishiro Botan is that Activision gave her access to Cold War beta. I thought that was awesome

[@grialinfo4426]

I think the principal advantage to join a vtuber agency, a good one, is the collab posibilities. You can be a real one vtuber, but if your companions are as good or betten than you... the result is usually impresive, way better than those vtuber can make alone. And if you are a Holomem and can participate in some of their 3d concerts, with better and better motion capture technology and better and better 3d modeling, the technological differentiation with respect to the rest will be enormous.

[@SuperTaiko95]

Didnt know about memberships having a lesser cut than superchatting. Thanks!

[@honeybeeami2654]

While I’m too busy right now I would love to get into streaming, I’ve been told I’m a chatterbox in games and the idea of coming up with a persona to be sounds very fun and a great alternative to using your real identity. Though I’m not so sure if I want to join a company as I want to work hard, stream want I want to, and use a design that I had a hand in creating. Plus, I feel like the eyes that you get automatically from debut would be way to stressful to put on for me all at once.

[@honeybeeami2654]

Maybe once I have some streaming experience I might be open to an agency, but I don’t want to through myself off the deep end with no experience at all

[@yamiro9550]

Thank you for another informative ideas in Vtuber...

[@AzeharaCh]

Solid vid as always.

[@Shia-san]

I was sooo waiting for a new video

[@ElliotKeaton]

_"if your colleagues get involved in any drama or controversy it may reflect badly on you and other talents from the compagny even though you're not directly involved. So you better be a good teamplayer."_ Then you just do what EN did and treat them like they're dead to you.

[@Shia-san]

@@ElliotKeaton I don't get what you mean exactly. Care to elaborate?

[@bigdog3695]

@@ElliotKeaton Wait what happened with EN? (Nijisanji or hololive? Or another company?)

[@thegemguy1334]

I think there also some advantage when it come to sponsorship. You are more likely to get one if you are a part of an agency. And if you got the kind that requires you to work in a group, you will most likely work with others who belong to the same agency. It's a lot more comfortable to work with people you are familiar with and you can support each others.

[@gavinkemp7920]

On the cut perspective it is worth noting the Hololive employed 154 people in 2021 (I'm not sure if that includes the talents). So hololive provides quite a lot of resources to their talents. On the other hand they don't buy you the games. Mumei mentioned that the first month was a stretch because she had to buy a whole bunch of stuff before getting her first income.

[@Iisho]

Vtubing is still relatively new to me. I do a little of my own vtubing but only when my laptop permits it (for some reason it often cant handle running all the things I need it to even though it's supposed to be a fairly strong pc?). I have lightly thought about if I'd want to join an agency, though it's not something I can heavily consider now since my life currently doesn't permit it. This video definitely helped with organizing my thoughts as well as giving me more important things to consider.

[@carlosalvarezruiz9351]

Sure, if you join a vtuber agency you'll need to compromise on it, they'll demand you to keep an schedule and keep the communication on your social media

[@JOSECRAKEN]

Nice Okayu for the thumbnail bro

[@Yamabi_Kaze]

I'm starting as an indie right now, but I don't know, maybe in the future I'll apply, speaking 2 languages is always a good thing, at the moment I'm happy making my own art and model for a future debut later this year :>

[@shuzilong]

Bein an Indie, this is all good to know. And the dire struggle of possessing a lack of Assistance, and having an urgency of management hits so hard. But it is a circumstance that comes with the territory if you have done research and prepared for it. From what I experience so far, time may also be your ally or enemy. lol

[@anonali7738]

9:34 OH MY GOD..!! YOU DID NOT JUST SAY THAT while showing Sonny Brisko.. I'M LAUGHING SO HARD RN 🤣, you really did your research

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

>"I'm not gonna name names" >shows both previous and current avatar of most obvious example Is noticing that a sign I'm in too deep?

[@ExtremeBoyheat]

There's no way out now, you know too much :D

[@NinaMarieNPianoKeys]

If you know Sonny's Past life (which I won't say who here), you know

[@vice2792ocl]

@@NinaMarieNPianoKeys Seeing Sonny really surprised me. I have no idea but I hope that drama doesn't creep back up

[@MildlyOCD]

6:04 "Unless the agency you just joined have members that are a bunch of assholes" I had my suspicions, but you watch the pupper in the cupper, too, don't you? Because, I think I know who you're talking about.

[@Kelly-pr8lz]

Umm sorry i dont understand vare to explain?

[@MildlyOCD]

@@Kelly-pr8lz FlamencoTV (i.e. the "pupper in the cupper") covers vtuber drama. & Recently, he covered Vshojo. Again. & The Vshojo girls are kinda notorious for being really toxic. Like, "mean girls" kinda toxic. (Edit for spelling)

[@MrToonlink53]

I doubt it was in reference to pupper and more of a general warning that applies to any agency. I don't like /vt/ but I gotta agree with them that Flam is just your run of the mill drama channel

[@MildlyOCD]

@@MrToonlink53 Eh. "Run of the mill" would be inaccurate. Well, except maybe the presentation because he could definitely stand to improve there. But, he digs to find his research. But, to each their own. Obviously, it's more of a general warning, but I don't know what other agency is particularly bad about having problematic members. & Seeing as Flam covered them... That was my train of thought.

[@uteriel282]

@@MildlyOCD well if your boss (nyanners) is one of the most punchable assholes in the business its no surprise that you find shit lying around when you look a bit closer. after all flies are attracted to dung.

[@PasscodeAdvance]

When I discover and grow my talents enough to be on par with the best in their category, I hope to join Holostars also with the intent to help spread awareness and love of Vtubers in my country as it is small and needs growing (India). I'll keep your advice in mind as I research and grow Also, I love your videos, keep it up bro!

[@nickstarlingch]

My friend considered applying to Holostars, he had a really good "resume" and thought he could bring a lot to their table. Thankfully I convinced him to go solo/indie and helped him recharge his channel and redebut as an indie, he's doing well for himself. I also considered applying to half a dozen vtuber groups, but decided against it due to all the restrictions. Indie or bust, unless you truly are an inoffensive person at heart who doesn't mind following loads of weird rules.

[@PasscodeAdvance]

@@nickstarlingch good for me, I don't prefer being offensive.

[@nickstarlingch]

@@PasscodeAdvance Sometimes being "offensive" just means having an opinion, or a sense of humor. Get ready for eggshells.

[@PasscodeAdvance]

@@nickstarlingch uh huh. That's that, like everyone has shown us

[@user-fh6pm8ke8q]

dude has a Jack Daniel and said "apeshit". he gets a new sub. lol

[@JonFawkes]

Earnings with cuts from an agency is still better than what you might be able to earn as an indie, unless you can really pull the big numbers Let's assume you can earn maybe a fifth as an indie compared to corporate $100k as signed vtuber cut down to 30K or $20k as an indie cut down to $14k

[@CSDragon]

Also, it covers the cost of paying for your manager's salary, which an indie has to do themselves

[@uteriel282]

@@CSDragon pretty much everything a vtuber is able to do under company contract is covered by that cut. events, merch, staff, artists, high tech electronics and a lot more.

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

A lot of indie like only get less than 100 viewers so yes most of the time Indies don't get money enough.

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

@@uteriel282 also we need to consider how hard for talents to get into hololive or nijisanji.

[@ElliotKeaton]

@@uteriel282 Hololive talents pay for their own merch and artists, unless it's some kind of collab the company set up. Cover can loan the money in advance but they have to pay it off.

[@unitrioz6418]

This guys is underrated asf.

[@DogratDavis]

Irrelevant to the video, but thanks for introducing me to Pippa. She's probably the funniest Vtuber out there right now lol. It's too bad that being funny is inherently dangerous on the internet these days.

[@DepressedNousagi]

ONE MORE TO THE PIPPA CULT

[@DogratDavis]

@@DepressedNousagi Pipi gang!

[@CrimsonJulz]

@@DepressedNousagi I became curious, and the first video i saw of her is her screaming and tossing what sound like a cereal box when fighting senator Armstrong.

[@taroni_draws]

@@CrimsonJulz Any collab with her and Tenma is always a good starting point.

[@ashchisalleh1454]

Being funny in internet is dangerous.. Wow..truths word spoken here. No wonder people in internet getting salty ..

[@MilotusLucifera]

Im probably gonna have to go Indie first but Ive always wanted to be under a company because Im personally bad at being able to grow my own audience and advertise myself, I barely even use social media but I know I'm gonna have to in order to be in any business. I've just always been more of a follower, so following rules will usually be not much of a problem. I also used to want to be a kpop idol simply for the feeling of being in a group where I can feel close with it's members, but the kpop industry is extremely toxic and taxing in all forms. I also need a lot of assistance on like everything. I literally play league with my friend telling me exactly what to do cuz I know i'd probably die otherwise.

[@justabystander1567]

I feel happy that Papa Franku is featured in this video. Damn I really missed that Golden Age content

[@KhoiruunisaRF]

Well, welcome to reality! VTuber/VLiver is just one of many professions out there. Not just all fun and laughs, of course. Thank you for the info!

[@Dragonero11700]

I really like to do whatever the fruck that i wanna do ,so that is the only reason I don't want to join a company ,for the other way around ,the V tuber comunity grow so much ,that is really easy to grow ,as long as you are fine with it ,you are going to go far

[@satriaamiluhur622]

Considering how oversaturated vtuber market has become, joining an agency is probably the only, and best way to market yourself. I've seen plenty of independent vtubers with less than 30 views per video and they quit after few weeks

[@_Ekaros]

No different from any content creator market. Twitch steamers, vloggers, basically anything. Unless you hit some sort lucky break or make a connection with existing creator community with audience it is very very hard.

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

As if getting in to hololive or niji is the easier way. Ahahaha

[@cynicalducky1041]

@@Written_in_the_Starss well, one of the biggest pros for joining an agency is that you would immediately gain a fanbase for your videos, so it's guaranteed that you would gain views and make money from your videos. That doesn't mean that indie vtubers are worse off, they have more freedom but their fame isn't guaranteed. However they do own whatever they create on their social media.

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

@@cynicalducky1041 freedom yeah.. It's only good if you do it as a hobby cause 99% of the time indie just don't get anything.

[@lordvolsung1203]

I really like your take on most things. You're blunt but fair. I might disagree with you on some things, but the difference is I still like to listen to your side of things. That's why I subbed in the first place. Keep it up.

[@vice2792ocl]

As someone with Absolutely no intention of doing that. I was very entertained in seeing the hoops my entertainer's have to do for their jobs.

[@TPandaManT]

I'm surprised you didn't have as much emphasis as you might have regarding starting out as an indie. Seems to me that the "best foot" to start off on is to do everything yourself and build at least some kind of familiarity and regularity with content production (in the same way that you'd generate a portfolio to apply for a VTuber Agency). Assessing whether a VTuber Agency jives with you is certainly necessary, but makes way more sense to even consider if you're pretty sure that VTubing in general is the path you're leaning towards. It could be that your target audience is exactly those people; established, producing indies who are considering joining a VTuber Agency (rather than someone who generically has an interest in being a Vtuber and is starting completely fresh). If so, I just misunderstood. Either way, great video.

[@dannyd.9932]

I can’t even begin to imagine the levels of stress the managers of some of the talents go through

[@HopelessAndUselessPerson]

Loved the first part where you showed Lyrica then transitioned to Millie lol

[@R3gular]

For those interested more about how vtubers get from SCs, Higuchi Kaede has a clipped and translated video for that. Heck, if Sachiowo and Senzawa(I miss you, you drunk loli cowboy) can go on a rebirth and become stronger, why didn't papa franku didn't also turn into one? Probably he would, but just not as a Vtuber, but as a God of musical depression instead.

[@mangosday]

I always assumed the ones in agencies got to choose their artist and design theme since it _is_ going to be their whole persona. It would suck to get a model that you don't vibe with

[@ducawilliam4131]

3:04 Bro as an Italian that "eccetera eccetera" you pronounced was on fucking point damn, you sounded basically fluent

[@Uladzya]

Btw, what does this phrase mean?

[@-Raylight]

Oh that's why Melissa graduate, really want to find Melissa again. I hope we can find her(him?) again! 9:33 Sonny lol, not sure if he's hiding though. He admitted his wrong back then So just like Mysta said, many people will notice you, you might be able to interact with your idol, even having new family. But the cons is a lot of rules and people want to doxx, even find your family members

[@danny_d3754]

I'm OOTL, what happened with Sonny?

[@chalkchalk77]

@@danny_d3754 Check on sketchek or idk the exact name drama on SunnyV2 for detailed info. Tldr ; he faked his death to quit makin tf2 content on yt.

[@MrTigracho]

@@chalkchalk77 Yeah I saw that. For one hand I can see why the outrage. For the other hand, the man was in a really really dark moment of his life. My policy on these kind of stuff is just let things go, there is no pointing in festering of the fire of hatred. But I speak for myself, can't say the same for those who followed him, especially how tf2 had other creators die in the past.

[@paololepon5091]

That Salome video about her 1mil subs speedrun made me hit that sub button 🤗🤗 Still confused about that anyway 😂

[@LuxZa]

Something I was wondering was about vtuber names when entering an agency (specifically hololive/holostars) Do they ever get to choose their names?

[@simonari1488]

Senzawa just wants to be a cowboy.

[@NinaMarieNPianoKeys]

She became a Shark Loli

[@Rar830]

@@NinaMarieNPianoKeys She was already a blue haired loli, but yeah

[@LokiVali]

Considering I've always been interested in vtubers, but (imo) Holo just feels a bit too corporate but Niji feels a bit more free. Though this could just be a better act. Though there's always the dreaded thing of stressing with lots of anxiety that I doubt would make collabs easy. Regardless, if you've listened to my tangent, and you also would like to become a vtuber, good luck on your journey!

[@idanchen4934]

1:25 - I think you should read the terms of service by youtube, it also states that your content is google property and if they want (- google that is) they can put adds on your videos even if you do not want them to. so.... what is the diffrence LOL

[@UFOinDisguise]

me: oh interesting video here... also me: write that down!! write that down!!

[@jarnholdtyt5189]

A 4am upload. I kneel.

[@DepressedNousagi]

Its so you Americans can wake up to my glorious videos and have a good day

[@Joe23589]

Thank You!

[@deathwings51]

Middle of the afternoon for me 🤣

[@menacereconnaissance7406]

I love your vids

[@Rar830]

Wouldnt the copyright limitations happen either way though? I mean not being apart of a corp doesnt automatically make you exempt from copyright, unless your small enough to go completely unnoticed no matter what you do. Also the money cuts really arent a negative in my opinion, since the company is investing so much into getting you set up etc. Edit: Depressed Nousagi: How much forbidden knowledge can I fit in one video.

[@lanternguy1635]

its been half a year and you're nearly 50k subs :eyes: 100k by the end of the year seems pretty feasible now huh?