Depression - the Opposite of Happiness

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

💚 Patreon: patreon.com/thelivingphilosophy ☕ Ko-fi: ko-fi.com/thelivingphilosophy ⌛ Timestamps: 0:00 Gain and Loss 2:45 The Third Dimension of the Good Life 4:00 How to Eudaimonia 5:21 The Spiritual Path 7:06 The Neuroscience of Self-Esteem 9:43 Virtue: the Royal Road to Eudaimonia

[@umbertopaoluccipierandrei1503]

Eudemonìa from the greek has a slightly more articulated meaning. it's intertwining the meaning of conquering and balancing your own demon/whiz. So it's also finding your peace by the virtue of managing this. within the measures/limits of who you are. It's amazing I was studying this very concept developed by Umberto Galimberti and you did a video on it right when I was in the final process of digesting it. Unbelievable timing, thanks as always James!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Haha glad to hear it umberto. Galimberti's work sounds interesting that's another perspective on it for sure and would fit with the whole thing between Socrates and his daimon/genius that Plato talks about in the Symposium

[@johnvervaeke]

Excellent!

[@Mark.Allen1111]

Perhaps you and James could get together and do a deep dive into this self contempt vs. self esteem idea.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Much appreciated John! I'm a big fan of your work (I'm up to #36 of AFTMC) and I reckon you would have a great chat with Ryan seeing as he's drawing from a lot of cogsci. Would love to see you two talk about spirituality and really all of this. Some very fertile ground for dialogos. I'd be delighted to connect you two if you were interested

[@DaveShap]

Well done. Valuable insights. Convergence is happening

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Dave

[@KalebPeters99]

Woah, this is a crossover that I'd be absolutely jazzed about. Love both of your work, lads 🙏💕

[@bartvanderholst9951]

I just wanna say that I really appreciate the art you display to support your essay. I don’t know much about them, but i very much enjoyed the works you selected

[@Mbonic]

so glad youre back with a new video! keep it up

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Matthijs!

[@ximono]

Integrity and virtue are timeless. Great video essay as always!

[@ziyaziya9531]

Your successful approach is heartwarming

[@patricktherrien5310]

Great video, I like to see the concepts so nicely fleshed out. I would like to provide a recharacterization of the mediation/working with pyschadelics angle. First off, I'll admit that I work with both modalities, and have seen a lot of good come from them. So if that's a bias, I have it. I think the obvious objection is that one needn't use them as a hammer and smash the HVAC. Rather, perhaps particularly with pychadelics, but certainly also within meditation, one can use them to slow down, or shut off the ego/DMN in order to expand the options and gain perspectives. Then with these insights, a good course is to integrate them and strengthen the self with the new ways of being. To return to the metaphor, this would be unplugging the HVAC so that one can work on it. It would be very difficult to repair a machine while it was runing on full power. These modalities provide the moments to see what the state of it is at that moment from outside, and can even provide a sort of instruction manual for how to fix it. In my experience, this is the exception not the rule, but of course everyone has their own experiences. I do agree that the hammer smashing exists, as somebody might commit themselves to an ashram and leave the world. Or even blast themselves so far into DMT or LSD that they never come back, but I think almost nobody is doing that on purpose. From my viewpoint, this (the former, not the latter) is a viable path, and perhaps a great path for some, but I also feel that there's a beauty, and in some sense a higher ceiling to trying to find our healthy connection to ourselves and the outer world, rather than trying to escape it. If we wanted to take it a step further, I think we would eventually transcend the virtues. Nietzsche was fond of this. I'll reference the Daodejing rather. "Therefore when Tao is lost, there is virtue. When virtue is lost, there is kindness. When kindness is lost, there is justice. When justice is lost, there is ritual. Now ritual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of confusion. Knowledge of the future is only a flowery trapping of the Tao. It is the beginning of folly. Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real and not what is on the surface, On the fruit and not the flower, Therefore accept the one and reject the other." I think there is something important here, which can be really frustrating if one tries to "become enlightened", or follow the Tao all at once. From my personal perspective however, one can build ones own sense of self while also developing this sense for the path, so as one creates more Eudemonia, and a stronger base, one can also find more access to flow. If the identification is with ones role in the world and ones connection to the greater picture. Also on the experiences of this unity. This is the seeing of the fruit instead of the flower. Eventually, the HVAC is truly no longer necessary because one has learned to regulate heat and cold internally. I think while working on the HVAC one can be simultaneously studying this, and perhaps eventually we find out we are the HVAC. And that it obviously doesn't have Buddha nature.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Interesting takes. I'm definitely on the same page as you re the potential of psychedelics to interrupt the working and allowing us to rewire the HVAC

[@vdub6343]

I must disagree with the importance of self-esteem. There’s some famous studies surrounding it (namely that one with California schools), and it seems to be more a byproduct of happiness than a cause. Targeting self-esteem alone does little long-term. If I recall, the emphasis should be on self-compassion instead.

[@leftoverjoe]

In my experience self-esteem is a huge component in living a better, perhaps even happier life. Before I established a solid self-worth, I would let people walk all over me, I couldn't set boundaries, and I didn't feel I even deserved happiness. After years of therapy I was able to respect and love myself, allowing me to protect myself, set boundaries, and pursue genuine happiness.

[@vdub6343]

Maybe I was thinking of self-efficacy? I gotta check.

[@ali_haidar_313]

Yes this is the keyword "Self-Compassion"

[@renaissancefairyowldemon7686]

Thank you for a beautiful explanation. 🖤🌹

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks Renaissance Fairy

[@aylimo8691]

Thanks once again for your effort and a great video!

[@lucasfc4587]

That is very thought-provoking, I will watch it a couple more times and try to implement it. I just have one question: why the throths and valleys are arragend the way they are on the plane?

[@lucasfc4587]

Troughs*

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

It's a relatively arbitrary example. Those peaks and troughs are going to be different for each of us. The point is to show that the peaks don't necessarily align with high pleasure/high gain - that depression and eudaimonia are indeed working on a different plane of their own which is connected but not caused by the other two axes

[@iscosphilosophy9120]

You got me at the part of the mind keeping score.

[@umbertopaoluccipierandrei1503]

Grazie.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Thanks umberto

[@d1427]

'you destroy the unit and abandon your strong sense of self in order to form a relationship with reality as it is.' Well... this is quite muddled up- who destroys what and who is left to form a relationship with reality?! How would the ego destroy itself? This is a logical fallacy- just another delusional game of the ego that leads to frustration and only prolongs suffering. It stems from a mistaking reality as something external to a self that is irrationally perceived to be outside of reality, separate from it, and perceiving reality as an object that can be accessed through sensing and thinking. 'Look, don't think' is all you have to do...

[@seanwooten6410]

In modern secular culture, I think virtue has been replaced by right thinking, Great video, thanks.

[@OrgesKreka]

Thank you for the great video as usual! I wanted to ask you where do you find the books that you read? ebooks? Buy new or used? And the second, how do you manage to read/study one book per month for me it is very challengeing to be focused that much. Thanks a lot!

[@GrimVista]

Then, in how far is virtue effected by modern neoliberal norms? I can imagine virtue changes over time, according to what society finds virtuous, and we integrate that into our self-judgement system. As in, we learn through conditioning what is virtuous. How do you think?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Bush's take is that there is a universal palatte of values that different cultures emphasise different elements of. In that case modern neoliberal society does have its own selection of values but these will change (and I would argue that neoliberalism is already receding and so already are beginning to change)

[@countMonteTristo]

powerful stuff, thank you

[@berger1968]

Love your sophistication

[@OneLine122]

Pretty good. He is making his own stuff though. Eudaimonia was really a good example, or what we would call today a good archetype. So it would be acting in order to give a good example for others, either by mimicking other good examples, or improving on them once you have mastered the original. For Aristotle, pleasure comes from doing that assuming you are virtuous. It comes from action, while the virtue is just potential for action, a predisposition. Gain was not seen as virtuous, because it's accidental, but what you do with those gains were. Basically you have to give it away for Aristotle. Other philosophers preferred not making any gains in the first place, like the Stoics. It's one thing different schools disagreed on the most. Christianity made poverty into a virtue in itself. So those three axis is something new, even if it uses old words. In comparison, it is individualistic, subjective, hedonistic, and rely quite a bit on chance. It does not really break away from the liberal mold fundamentally.

[@johnfitzgerald-kelly4359]

Excellent video as always. Have you done anything on social status? Just watched will storr on rogan speaking on it. Keep up the good work, my favorite channel by a fellow Irishman!

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Go raibh maith agat John. Nothing yet on social status. I have something written on it - specifically around the serotonin component but I'd like to talk to an expert on serotonin and bounce some of my thoughts off them before I publish them

[@johnfitzgerald-kelly4359]

@@TheLivingPhilosophy It sounds like you have a very interesting perspective in the serotonin - I look forward someday!

[@thehighpriestess978]

When one is depressed and suffering from low self esteem, sadly it isn't easy to find anything virtuous or admirable about themselves. What does one do about that?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Well Bush's point is that you don't change this by searching within yourself intellectually or emotionally but by showing it to yourself. If you admire those who have read the classics then read some literature or philosophy; if you admire marathon runners then start running; if you admire people who take care of themselves then cook a nice meal. Of course this isn't so easy as it sounds when you're the brick wall of depression is lying on top of you but the point is that instead of searching for something that's already there you start signalling it to yourself - you show your own virtue to yourself in what you do and that is the mechanism by which you improve your self-esteem

[@Mark.Allen1111]

Before you determine that, you have low self-esteem, check to see if you are surrounded by assholes.

[@Mark.Allen1111]

Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.

[@thehighpriestess978]

​@@TheLivingPhilosophy I realize the question was very general for a situation that goes beyond , but I very much appreciate you taking the time to answer.

[@thehighpriestess978]

@@Mark.Allen1111 I am usually surrounded by sheep, the fluffy variety. I stay far away from the human ones. I admire these sheep, because they act stupid to fool people, when in fact they are surprisingly smart.

[@ezequielbarraza01]

Hey what happened to your "postmodernism video" dont tell me yt delete/censor it😕 In case you have in private, could you give me the link?

[@amanofnoreputation2164]

I think you can add as many axis as you want and still arrive at the same problem. Which is that you cannot gain without losing something of equal value. So, if there is a trick, it's removing all the axes so that there is no more happiness or unhappiness.

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

That would be the spiritual path and perfectly valid for those who have the desire for it

[@mtmms70]

The poet Giacomo Leopardi (a man who hadn't a very happy life) once said: "Men would be happy if they had not tried and did not try to be".

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

That fits with the spiritual example but in Bush's frame that wouldn't actually be eudaimonia. It might be a spiritual peace but it's not the proud joyfulness of eudaimonia

[@sideshow00]

Something like virtue only really makes one happy if they care about what the collective has to say or think about thier life. In example, in Korea being a good man to your parents, studying 10 hours a day, then working like a slave to your job and doing everything to please your then wife till you die would be 'virtuous;. But what if he didnt want that for his life? Now what?

[@Frank_42]

Real virtue or perceived virtue? Is happiness the ability to enjoy the smell of one's own farts?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

Insofar as our internal system is socially wired by evolution to evaluate our behaviour based on the value system of our world then it is real virtue. But if you want to step back enough the nihilistic arguments around this being mere perception could be made. It's not arbitrary self-invented virtue if that's what you're asking

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

​@@michaelmcclure3383 love this input Michael it does capture some my queasiness with the self-actualisation movements in general. There can be something nihilistic about seeking happiness just for its own sake since nothing else matters. It's interesting to follow the trail that direction - you end up doing good things because that's the best thing for you to do selfishly to do (thanks to evolutionary wiring). But is there something different between the Laotze style virtuous man and the virtue hunter type? That brings us into more distant philosophical waters but it definitely gels with my reflections (topic of the next video) recently on the distinction between intrinsic and instrumental activities. Is this the ultimate instrumentalisation of life?

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@michaelmcclure3383 apologies for the delay I've been painting myself! (something which you'll be seeing in future videos soon - I'm making some changes around here and it's going to involve a bit more of me and the thoughts of my own - for better or worse) And may I say that I've always enjoyed our interactions - they feel as old as the channel I can't even remember when they started. Good take with Wittgenstein; the hierarchy of needs lens makes sense to me there - for the rest of us there's a tangilbe meaning in working and aspiring to simple milestones that take a lot of work but which for someone who is so fabulously wealthy it all just lands in their lap; they are cheated of a lot of the usual breadcrumbs of meaning that keep most of us moving along. So I think that's part of that situation - you can never outperform your ancestors or be exceptional in that regard (or it's very unlikely) and so what do you do with your life? You're a lot closer to the void in that sense but usually that means people get hung up in aristocratic games at the level of Esteem needs so you compete in your politeness/taste/status. As for the painting thing...the selfish angle is an interesting one. I know it's essentially a mapover from what I was saying but I can't help but feel that it's the wrong lens to apply to a hobby like that. It seems like we should feel guilty if we don't use every second meaningfully towards some humanity-saving goal. This might be a thread we'll pick up more after the next video since it's directly related to this topic. It'll be interesting to discuss then the relations with virtue because I haven't mapped those out at all. Interesting stuff

[@TheLivingPhilosophy]

@@michaelmcclure3383 ah that's a different point to what I was thinking. And an interesting one. The creative process is endlessly fascinating to me (where you stumble lies your gold I guess)

[@cactusimon]

I disagree with this. The bias from Mr Bush is individualistic. The real calculation would need yet further modifiers to encompass the interaction of self to the collective. Note that virtue is also presented through spirituality.

[@DeadEndFrog]

Using generalizations will never satisfy everyone. Happiness seems very subjective. If hedonists tell you what Happiness is, then im sure they are right for them. Hence why they tell you what Happiness is for them. The only reason people question it is because they dont know what Happiness is for themselves.

[@who_am_ii]

Welp no one here's

[@laurakruse870]

Whatcha mean?