The Most Experimental SSD Cooling Concept in Computex 2024 - MSI

[@lo0nyk]

that fanblade design is the one from Major Hardware channel (Fan showdown)

[@Dan-Simms]

Sure is, we finally are seeing it!

[@PlayingItWrong]

Been waiting to see this.

[@River_Miles]

S5E2, fan code name 92120 from Q. There may have been others with the dual blade design from earlier seasons.

[@Wunderbolts]

I thought of that but wasn’t sure

[@ying27]

Looks very similar but the blades, specially the internal ones look different 🤔

[@gerthddyn]

That looks like one of the fans from the Fan Show Down on Major Hardware's channel. If I remember right it was from a few of seasons ago and performed really really well.

[@thickrustynails]

A two stage radiator. Best of both worlds. High fin density on the first stage to dissipate the hottest heat. Second stage fin density allows maximum air flow to cool the fluid to its coldest before going to pump head

[@thevoid6756]

I am surprised nobody has made a GPU with a monitor on the backplate yet.

[@flyaway6671]

I want one underneath the heatsink

[@Simon_Denmark]

I bet that the monitor would love the heat but hey we already have SSD’s in GPU’s.

[@zahidshabir4038]

There has been a GPU with the monitor on the side though (I cannot remember who did it but I think it was a 3000 series Nvidia card and I don't think it was done by a top 3 GPU company which are Asus/MSI/Gigabyte and their gaming sub brand). ALSO I think this is because of 2 things firstly when under load that backplate can get very hot and this monitor will also be hot too and secondly due to thermodynamics and how hot air is lighter than cold air all the GPU heat will just be rising up through the card and the backplate will expel a huge chunk of that heat which will cause the monitor to suffer

[@ashenwattegedera]

Doesn't Colorful makes those?

[@qlum]

Problem is with thermals, backplates get quite hot and the components not being able to dissipate heat from the back isn't great. Could be done, but would complicate things, probably requires some space above the backplate for it to breath. Even when you do you will mostly be looking from the side, so viewing angles are also problematic in most situations.

[@metalhead2476]

The ssd cooler is stupid. I'd rather have a normal, heatpipe, solid copper cooler.

[@lamensje]

If you use a polorizer filter on the camera lens the reflections of the glass will be less

[@NickyNiclas]

A circular polarizing filter (CPL) yes. Very cool how that works!

[@TechOverwrite]

9:01 awesome to see CAMM2 so close up. Fingers crossed CAMM2 is rolled out fairly quickly, it sounds really promising 🤞

[@Bourinos02]

Looks cool for cooler clearance, not so much for upgradability/capacity though...

[@potatoes5829]

I hope the single channel dimms are common

[@taylorhappe8026]

It's dual channel memory on a single connection better interconnections to CPU and over 8000 mT I like it

[@Zvxers7]

Its very good for upgradability, especially on laptops​@@Bourinos02

[@ashenwattegedera]

I especially wanna see laptops adopt camm and get rid of soldered memory

[@Phos9]

Thicker radiator allows you to achieve the same surface area with less airflow restriction. The amount of heat a radiator can reject depends on the area of its “face”, once the air is the same temperature as the the water additional surface area can’t have any effect, and you have diminishing returns the whole way there, so it’s better to reduce airflow restriction so you can get more air through

[@lassebrustad]

please get one to test if it can explode! 😂

[@escortturbo98]

Trouble with reflections? Get a circular polarizing filter for your lens and never ever worry about that anymore, just get it set prior to start recording. Small edit: Hoya HD nano MK II is really good, Mk III is even better.

[@Phos9]

Oh that’s what they were calling it by moving the connectors to the back of the motherboard. I am so annoyed that they came up with a new-ish motherboard standard and didn’t replace the power cables with a bus bar.

[@Kyomara1337]

more annoying is they are making some cases for those motherboards without increasing the space behind the tray, just like the one shown.

[@shanent5793]

Bus bars would be even more annoying

[@Phos9]

@@shanent5793 a bus bar in this application could just have standardized plugs, you would just slide in the PSU to connect it on that end and there would be connectors you would drop the motherboard on the other end, rather than the eyelets you typically use with bus bars.

[@Ultrajamz]

Not sure what the point of the aio-gpus are if they don’t make the gpu’s take up less slot width. I guess maybe more OC? But they don’t get that much benefit from oc right?

[@1kreature]

There will not be pressure building up in the SSD cooler case if it is typical phase change. It would start off under vacuum and as the temperature of the system increases the vacuum would be reduced. If water is used it needs to go over 100c before it builds pressure.

[@RavTokomi]

I feel like a lot of these SSD coolers don't address the fact that they will be soaking up loads of heat from GPU backplates. Really the primary M2 slot needs to move away from that location (maybe CAMM2 will free up space elsewhere?)

[@wolf1438]

Roman are you playing Computex drinking game everytime you see product with A.I. you take a shot?

[@First-Name_Last-Name]

Anyone playing that game during computex will end up dead by alcohol poisoning.

[@ger5956]

That would probably end in alcohol poisoning tbh 😂

[@dahahaka]

Ahhhh the fin density thing makes so much sense, the fans have much more static pressure on the outside, so this probably helps to actually move the air more spread out, idk what the actual performance difference is but it does make sense

[@leonardosabomisseni3667]

I think that for the less dense aio the reasoning could be that they can now optimise for higher flow rather pressure. I could easily see a bigger benefit in higher flow speed/more air than more surface area. Also, they raised its thickness, which could indicate that they still needed a bit more area to make up for any losses? Makes me wonder what other effects it might have

[@ati4280]

I like that AIO designed GPU. In my experience, even a 120mm radiator can out perform a massive tripple fan two-slot heatsink. Also that bottom-top fan ( don't know how to call it) is also pretty interesting. We can see the heatsink blades are horizontaled, means the hot air will be sunk from the bottom fan, travel through heatsink and be pull out by the top fan. This design well resolve the problem of conventional design that hot air was blocked by GPU card itself. The intake air temp would be affected by the exausted air which is not idle. Brilliant idea.

[@joshuasmith1090]

You can’t really even see the bubbles it’s not worth the sacrifice in heat dissipation for like barely any visuals

[@lassebrustad]

might be more visible than on video, but I did at least see one single bubble on my phone. heat is the main thing I would worry about, would be better to just get something dedicated to loop bubbles in safe conditions, rather than that unsafe "cooler"

[@edgecr]

i am more worry about the possible leak if it works under load for long enough the pressure and heat, the liquid might just find the easy way out

[@phillycheesetake]

@@lassebrustad It's less visible than on video. Watch again, MSI even had a magnifying glass on top of it so people could see the bubbles.

[@WhoTFMadeThisChange]

what do you mean? I saw a very consistent line of bubbles tho?

[@kindnuguz]

3:05 yeah der8auer you're remembering all the extensive testing done a while back, 2004ish? or around there. It was tested everyway possible and more fin density = better performance = better cooling BUT also cost more as more material is being used etc.. MSI should've just said "cost" to keep the cost down. I do have to give MSI props for actually having support for the GPU's in the rear of the card. Unlike many I've seen without. No matter how strong the socket is, support is needed. I'm a simplistic person, no RGB's or screens, like it sleek and clean so a lot of the eye catching products are not for me

[@lauwie7610]

could be that because the fan/airspeed is lower near the middle of the fan having less obstruction in the center is better

[@ClaytonSayer]

I think because higher fin density means more back pressure, and a thicker radiator also means higher back pressure, they balanced out the two rads so they'd have roughly the same amount of pressure to be matched with the fans. Lower fin density counteracts the thicker rad.

[@TheSocialGamer]

For GPU sizing, manufacturers really need to focus on shrinking their GPU sizes. 4 slots of ridiculous.

[@kotekzot]

You'll be happy to know Nvidia started a free SFF-compatible certification for GPUs and cases.

[@Ultrajamz]

At this rate, we will need external gpu even for desktops so we can reclaim those pcie slots.

[@NickyNiclas]

The liquid in that SSD cooler could also be under a vacuum, lowering the boiling point. But uh, anyway, that's crazy.

[@coccoborg]

Shouldn't be possible: if you lower the pressure in a closed container, some more liquid will boil off, turn to gas and bring the pressure back up.

[@NickyNiclas]

@@coccoborg Well, it works on the same principle as a vapour chamber, just more fluid :)

[@concinnus]

@@NickyNiclas A heat pipe/vapor chamber has like 1 drop of water. Granted, with a more volatile liquid like methanol you could use more liquid, but still not mostly liquid.

[@NickyNiclas]

@@concinnus Same mechanical process, just difference in amount of liquid.

[@concinnus]

@@NickyNiclas Point is, you were implying that it could be a standard vapor chamber, with water. But with only a tiny fraction of vapor, the boiling point would be >99C -- not helpful.

[@TheDeeGeeNL]

Havn't seen a single GPU with regular 25mm thick case fans yet on Computex. The deshrouding continues i guess.

[@DeathGrandMaster]

The reason behind the radiator might be that the airspeed and pressure generated by a fan are lower in the center and increase towards the edges. With reduced pressure and airflow in the middle, wider fin spacing helps facilitate air passage, reducing resistance and enhancing circulation in that area. This results in a more uniform airflow across the radiator, maximizing heat dissipation and preventing hot spots.

[@Skylancer727]

Yeah it's like how HEPA filters have a higher rating for capturing debris from the air, yet more conventional filters have a better record of actually cleaning the air in the entire room. The HEPA filter may be more capable at trapping things, but that doesn't matter if it chokes the fans more.

[@dawn-moon]

then why even bother populating the center part with fins...

[@shanent5793]

A lower fin density always means lower lower surface area. How that affects cooling will depend on the airflow, so it won't always be better

[@MATIK000]

0:28 opp obp osp otp pipipiii, Yoooo 😂

[@ChristianStout]

I hope that CAMM2 motherboard makes it to the market.

[@frederichardy8844]

If you want to avoid reflection use a polarizing filter 🙂

[@InekoBK]

1:35 I'm pretty sure the design of this 4080 is a throwback to the old GTX 480 cards

[@NinjAsylum]

3:20 lower fin density is better for slower fans. They're most likely prioritizing noise over thermals.

[@reptilez13]

I mean it's like a heat pipe, just using the acrylic which is probably not the best - but who knows, with testing it could work. And if people like the way it looks, meh.

[@puciohenzap891]

Another bit of PC nonsense but knowing the general level of the population, it would sell like hotcakes.

[@LittleDmhOfc]

*tips fedora*

[@TechOverwrite]

5:00 but... but... look how pretty it looks 😍 (You're totally right though, it's a gimmick for sure)

[@burrfoottopknot]

@@MEWJr90 I think it is about the Ai crud they slap on everything, ppl see Ai and think "Must buy". Heck they even have Ai toothbrushes now, "Must buy"!

[@ChristopherWoods]

An issue not addressed by most SSD coolers is that they occupy a "dead zone" in many cases. Like in my Fractal Torrent, although it has great horizontal airflow generally, there's nearly no air movement over where the M.2 alots are on the board, and the GPU is so massive with its enclosed shell design there's no passing airflow. These massive, horizontally mounted GPUs cause huge airflow restriction and do weird things to internal vertical convection. Many cases now don't have top vents, or have PSU enclosures at the top, making fan placement more difficult particularly with the huge 25-35 cm rads we're now having to use on modern CPUs. My 40 series card almost totally blocks airflow over the SSD slots (ProArt X670E) and I've had to fit low profile finned xclio heatsinks to get temps reasonable. Having a PCIe 5.0 SSD also doesn't help for thermals. Perhaps it's time for a design which incorporates a very low noise fan, or we bring back Zalman PCI slot mounted fan brackets and make those cool again?

[@Del_UK]

If the denser fin stack is on the side where the higher temperature liquid is entering the radiator, it makes sense that you would not need as dense a fin stack on the output side to reach an lower targeted output temperature. This would also reduce manufacturing costs. With GPU and CPU cores running at higher temperatures, how long will it be before a thermostat is required to keep temperature balance in the cooling system?

[@Myungbean]

The fin density thing probably not as strange as you think when you think about it. If a fin density gets too high, pushing air through would be a lot harder, thus making cooling it more difficult.

[@Retro-Iron11]

Got the stock spreaders on with my msi motherboard, top gen 4 ssd is running 29c, bottom two gen 3's in raid 0 running 34/35c. I think it's good on cooling.

[@concinnus]

Only Gen 5 requires anything special, and some of the newer Gen 5 controllers don't.

[@Retro-Iron11]

@@concinnus Yep. Even on my previous motherboard with my 2 gen 3's they had no spreaders at all. I bought a be quiet bc1 pro cooler for each and it did exactly nothing on temperatures for them. I'd say that only when moving into u.2 and beyond that those modules really need cooling.

[@freequest]

Polarising the filter would probably help with reflections from glass.

[@haakoflo]

Tighter fin spacing means more air resistance. Unless you want to run 15000rpm fans, tighter fin spacing can often lead to worsened performance because of this. And the thicker the radiator and lower fan speed you want to use, the more space is needed between the fins to keep the air flow acceptable.

[@stevenwest1494]

Yeah that M.2 heatsink from MSI doesn't look substantial enough to cool a PCIE 5 drive at all! It looks like it's been designed down to contain the failure (leakage) as a bigger unit would leak more in interface with the metal cooling

[@commanderoof4578]

2:05 finally!! Someone is doing what ive said to do for 5 years now

[@kylosalvesen]

Pro tip: Bring a circular polarizer for your camera to avoid reflections :)

[@concinnus]

Well, they didn't say the SSD cooler body is acrylic, so obviously they made it out of diamond, which has amazing thermal conductivity. Putting screws thru diamond is bad, though.

Any Frore systems videos comming ?

[@ChairmanMeow1]

Do M.2 drives even need this kind of cooling? Ive never had any issues just using the stock thermal pad and a heatsink.

[@Marbeary]

I would not be surprise if the next water block will be the whole mother board with SSDs and Camm modules when you do water colling setup

[@eliascence]

Thank You.

[@Nightykk]

7:43 - That's a great idea! .... till one of the fans break.

[@burrfoottopknot]

Why do people need a screen inside their system? What real world functions does it allow, apart from temp read outs and voltage etc? Which could be done via other means much cheaper

[@floodo1]

so I can play videos inside my case

[@Redswipe]

Can't see that SSD cooler exploding, thermally throttling sure but not exploding. It would be far better if it were all metal with a little plastic window to see the bubbles at work.

[@Xfade81]

I do like that card with bolt-on AIO.

[@Ironclad17]

I really like the compact AIO designs.

[@krishnakanth6662]

We got sockets for CPU and CAMM MEMORY, When will we get GPU in such form instead of a big card plugging into PCIE slot..???

[@nathangamble125]

When? 12 years ago. It's called MXM and was very common in laptops about 10 years ago, but is mostly abandoned because it's more complicated than just soldering the GPU to the motherboard, and designing coolers that are the right shape to work with MXMs with different GPUs and VRAM is difficult. A few ultra-high-end "desktop replacement" laptops still use MXMs, but it's rare. AFAIK there has never been a mainstream desktop motherboard that supports MXM (unless you use a PCIe to MXM adapter, which defeats the purpose of having a thin and compact GPU module), but some new industrial/server motherboards (e.g. AIMB-288E, which has an LGA1700 socket) have MXM slots.

[@SaiakuNaSenshu]

But WHY?

[@shaneeslick]

G'day Roman, The new SSD Coolers remind me of the Gigabyte LGA775 SilentPipe Northbridge Coolers 🤔With the Chonk Suprim at first when you mentioned less Fin Density of one Rad to the other, I thought maybe the lower Fin Density is for less restriction of air flow over the VRM, but then the VRM is under the Thinner Rad with Higher Density, so yeah 🤷‍♂???

[@rata536]

I wonder how Gordon will feel about CAMM2 on ATX boards.

[@alpha_knugen8335]

I hope that Project Zero, connectors on the wrong side of MB thing doesnt become a standard. I can understand the appeal with not seeing cables but i want to see my cables.

[@kennethnoga2667]

Amazing stuff!!

[@1tothe2the3]

Chonk Edition 🤣

[@killerrf]

Only thing with that compact liquid cooled 4090 vs an air cooled 4090 is that all the heat is still getting dumped into case.

[@crisnmaryfam7344]

1:05 No .. Sorry MLG is not a chinese translation is actually an Acronym. Major League Gaming. In other words is the "XXXXXX Gaming XXX Major league gaming edition" with extra GAMING...

[@IfranAli69]

💥

[@superflyguy4488]

Wooden NVMe drives with 14" OLED screen attached, go big or go home.

[@lennyvalentin6485]

CAMM variants is going to remain pretty obscure as long as it fastens with a bunch of screws - this is slow and fiddly to install, and obviously will make mass production more expensive. A tool-less variety should be a top priority meesa thinks.

[@kevlarpaul]

I know what I want on the back of that M.2 SSD; an LCD screen.

[@likusone420]

the last motherboard u held up where did u put rams looked like it had no ram slots

[@Retro-Iron11]

CAMM2 module. It uses lga contact pads and is bolted on. That's the rectangle where the memory sticks usually are.

[@honestgoat]

It doesnt have slots. Its using CAMM2.

[@likusone420]

@@honestgoat thanks

[@likusone420]

@@Retro-Iron11 thanks

[@WayStedYou]

did you watch the video muted? he explained it was CAMM2

[@AstrayPlays]

How long do you think it will take before the camm2 modules start having RGB...

[@floodo1]

hopefully immediately (-8

[@titanuranus2136]

Lets hope the LEDs on that plastic SSD cooler dont emit UV and make it brittle in a year or two.

[@Doobie3010]

The main thing that will explode on that m.2 gen 5 contraption will be its price!

[@Policepigeon]

that 4080 reminds me of the fermi reference designs

[@gprojectnoob4779]

Depends on the liquid. We used to use a silicone based fluid to cool the small crt picture tubes on rear projection tvs. It was an optically clear cooling fluid because the 9" crt tubes were run bright as heck and hot as heck. The lens and mounts were plastic and would have leaked if the fluid expanded too much. They didnt. I still have a bottle of it and wondered how it would work in a pc cooling system. It would need an oil pump style pump.

[@TewaAya]

No more waterforce cards for blackwell. Sad, no more dual aio jank setup like ufd tech.

[@gudenau]

I really don't get the "project zero" thing. That's just going to make swapping components harder and require more space behind the motherboard...

[@phillycheesetake]

Personally I would go back to "hard mode" cable management and forgo any space behind the motherboard tray. I remember running flat/unsleeved cables ON the motherboard tray and then setting the motherboard down on top of them, it accomplished the same thing but the cases back then were basically just a steel wrapper around the PSU and 5.25 bays, as thin as 160mm wide, which is absolutely miniscule these days. And imo PC width matters more than any other dimension for desk space.

[@floodo1]

yeah and look a lot nicer sooo

[@Groovewonder2]

Hey @MajorHardware Recognize a fan in here?

[@andrevanniekerk4711]

Would love to see them fitting that ssd cooler with a gpu in the pcie slot, every time I see people worried about wires and cooling and stuff, I just wonder when are they going to worry about actually being able to use the complete motherboard without working around stuff, can't change your nvme without removing gpu, can't add cooling without worrying about the gpu, can't use all pcie slots with a big gpu unless you go vertical and then you can maby use some of it, but you have to remove the gpu, so dumb

[@AvalonVII]

"Non metal vapor chamber" aka plastic(?)

[@connorharris1900]

make a video comparing 12 different m.2 coolers

[@Alexandra-Rex]

Those fans reminds me of something from @MajorHardware's Fan Showdown.

[@mrhassell]

100% MSI since 9th Gen Intel (they own Australia in PCs).

[@pinkyyyd23]

Boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion (B.L.E.V.E); similar explosions occur from LPG tanks that have a failed safety pressure release

[@briankleinschmidt3664]

1600 watts? That's over half again as much as my industrial microwave. I only use it for a few minutes a day. It's far more than a normal consumer will need.

[@bobbymoss6160]

Explosive performance...

[@shaneeslick]

PS 3:42 🤔I would have prefered Lucky's face

[@thomascrum185]

You down with OPP ya you know me!

[@The_Necrogeddon]

lol refrain from using the word "obscure", use weird or strange instead. Obscure means something uncertain or not clear

[@sykoteddy]

It's odd how MSI want to have both their M.2 cooling solutions under the same name when the first one is using only a heat sink and the other one with vapor chamber, when it's pretty obvious it shouldn't work as good. The only "selling points" for that one is maybe the see through chamber and the smaller size... Pretty much the lame RGB selling point, not far from the one Ali Express types with RGB on M.2 cooling, but that rather heats the M.2. If they had any kind of knowledge about marketing, they should be able to conclude that, if the sales of the vapor chamber version is going bad, it most likely will make the other product with the same name sell less. I figured this out, and I hate marketing.... It seems like more and more of those getting a degree but doesn't know shit are taking over.

[@WeAreMovieMakers]

We I’ll we see Gigabyte, Asus. And AsRock?

[@monchiabbad]

The more 12v nvidia connector the more fire-power

[@PyromancerRift]

An AIO card with a 120mm radiator is completely dumb. Because it will not cool better than an air cooled card of the same size and the pump will fail at some point.

[@alby13]

damn, bro. i'm waiting for the video of it overheating and exploding

[@katzicael]

6:53 I have a Xiaomi standing fan that has a similar blade design - it's quieter and moves more air than the fan it replaced which was twice the size!

[@4zims]

we need wooden PSUs 🔥

[@GamIngDoge.]

Thought they made a Major League Gaming GPU. Sad... :(

[@michaelcarson8375]

Explode? It may crack, but explode is just clickbait. MSI also had a board with the PCI-e slot quick eject button.. I'm not usually on youtube a lot, but computex and CES coverage I watch all week.

[@sir1junior]

My Gen5 SSD is on my liquid loop 30°C

[@J-B-Good]

I saw Paul yesterday trying to avoid ai topics and got baited by MSI

[@71janas]

Roman, can I borrow your company credit card? 😂😂😂😂😂.

[@zombie-mechanic]

While cat 4 black seasonic

[@sativagirl1885]

Go Big and Go Fast or Go Home.

[@EmoEmu]

It's down with OPP.

[@cosmicusstardust3300]

MSI when they care more about looks/ascetics than practicality and usability of their products lol