When M.2 SSD Cooling is getting out of Hand - Teamgroup Computex 2024

[@ScottGrammer]

Remind me of the Year 1985 when every loudspeaker in every Hi-Fi store was marked with a tag that said "Digital Ready."

[@Xfade81]

and later on HD Ready tv's.

[@ScottGrammer]

@@Xfade81 Paul Klipsch had a little fun with those "Digital Ready" stickers. In that year, his speakers sported stickers that said, "Digital Ready Since 1946."

[@paulwarner5395]

Reminds back in the early 2000s when VOIP was the buzz word in the telco industry. Every sales man was promoting it weather thy had it or not. Same seems to apply to AI.

[@lassebrustad]

​@@Xfade81but HD ready TV's was at least because a TV had to support it. "digital ready" for speakers means that the amp have to support digital input, which means the speakers naturally supports it. it's like a fan, and saying it works as a heater fan, and all you need to do is to place a heater behind it

[@ranjitmandal1612]

😮

[@SeventhCircle77]

Ai is just becoming the new gaming in terms of fancy words

[@CulturedThugPoster]

Ai is the human centipede of computation, all the big players will enshitify all the models in pursuit of profit and it will end up unusable.

[@NicuplusWILD]

Indeed. I refuse to buy anything with AI in the name that has no machine learning in it.

[@Crixer234]

​@@NicuplusWILD i'm sure that would open a market for electronic products thats says "our product is 100% AI-free" and that stuff starts to sell like crazy.

[@jaketimbers6004]

Ai , Hyperconverged, Software defined, ect

[@volvo09]

​@@c0rruptreality Who will have the first AI washing machine? Or dryer? (Don't respond if one exists, I don't want to know). 🤮

[@Beulena.]

a 120 aio for an ssd is so silly I can't help but be impressed.

[@axescar]

120 is too small for gen5, you need 360mm

[@buff9267]

I want one

[@jarls5890]

I still got my waterblocks for 3.5" spinny disks.....and those I got back in 2005 or so. Consists of two massive copper blocks where you can mount two 3.5" disks between them. Then there is an entire foam insulated steel box that goes around the whole thing to cancel all noise.

[@volvo09]

No, you don't understand how important this is. We need compressor based cooling for SSD's! This is a step to the future!

[@ThisOLmaan]

Right like here 5:49 like the magnective AIO but didn't see no Thermal paste, how does that worl🤔

[@Dan-Simms]

Love that the AI doesnt even like the AI naming.

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

Inb4 companies start using ChatGPT for naming schemes, so OpenAI knows all the industry trends before they happen. 😅

[@hokiturmix]

I love that the AI have no emotions... Unless you can prove that it has. :D

[@dikbozo]

What the world needs now more than ever: 'AI RGB".

[@MultiNastyNate]

Lian LI just came out with wireless RGB, good enough for now

[@KiltedCritic]

Only acceptable if the AI plugs in all the cables for us.

[@First-Name_Last-Name]

Me: computer, disable all ARGB. AI RGB: nope, all of em gonna be Rainbows mode. *Terminator theme plays*

[@Xfade81]

@@MultiNastyNate that's neat though, saves us some cables.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

💀

[@guiguipau]

2003 called. They want their RAM fans back.

[@Walczyk]

LOL I had this, and later an icydock ssd fan enclosure

[@AlvaroLR]

I love how extreme high end PCs are starting to look like high end 2010 ones thanks to this gigantic M.2 coolers and RAM that needs some extra airflow when overclock

[@OryoSamich]

I like the pink RAM kit. Always nice to see more colors other than black, white, and red components for more customization.

[@ricardo762]

You say SSD cooling is getting out of hand I say it hasn’t gone far enough.

[@maplemiyazaki]

i have an external nvme and that bad boy almost melts a hole through my desk at times lol

[@Marcos-ee7nt]

Yup, what happened to those "solid state" cooling fans, they would be perfect for this but maybe they would cost as much as the ssd to implement lol

[@Blackwing2345635]

Absolutely. This is only the beginning, can't wait to see much more unhinged stuff!

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

@@PREDATEURLT Ultra simple solution: immerse it.

[@Xfade81]

@@maplemiyazaki how, does the thing not have any pad to connect to the case?

[@HardCold-Alquan]

Wild and large coolers defeats the purpose of the small sizes of M.2 drives! I don't need more speed that badly to give up space.

[@WildRapier]

Hadn't considered that one! Good point! 🤔

[@Lurch-Bot1]

I guess 5GBps transfer rate just isn't enough for some people, lol. I only just started using basic NVME heatsinks. Maybe some of the fastest and most expensive drives on the market need exotic cooling but the vast majority of people buying SSDs will not benefit at all from putting a cooler on it that is big enough to cool a small CPU. For most people, the performance bottleneck will be cache and more cooling won't change that.

[@Demopans5990]

Though at gen 5 speeds, I think we might see a comeback in ramdisk cards

[@2intheampm512]

Seriously. There needs to be a push for U.2 form factor for these high speed drives. M.2 is just too small to thermally dissipate the heat generated by top of the line Gen 5 SSDs without absurd heatsink sizes

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

@@Lurch-Bot1 For most people, yes. If the drive has heavy workloads pumping through it 24/7, the controller might fry itself.

[@the-wert]

At what point height of coolers for PCIe 5 NVMe drives becomes ridiculous? How much weight can one hang on this slot?

[@bananabro980]

lol i hope they snap the m2 drives in half

[@analogicparadox]

Don't worry, next generation will include an SSD support bracket!

[@N3v3r_S3ttl3]

I can already see motherboards with reinforced PCI-e M.2 slots like how current most motherboards has at least one reinforced PCI-e slot for a GPU.

[@WildRapier]

A 3090+ and high end heat pipe air cooler for the CPU has to tack on 10 lbs to the motherboard, I wonder how much weight can be hung perpendicular before it starts to crack?

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Might aswell just have standard pcie slots nvme at this rate

[@weirdodude1173]

I like pink computer components more than I like the RGB ones, although I personally always buy black non-RGB stuff when I can. Thumbs up!

[@noobulon4334]

So, why arent we seeing u.2 in the consumer space if ssd cooling is becoming such a problem? A lot of u.2 drives have cooling channels and you could easily put a 30mm slim fan on one

[@crash.override]

Probably a chicken-and-egg problem with getting both the mobo vendors & SSD vendors onboard. Mobo vendors would have to add another port, and SSD vendors don't yet offer cheaper consumer-grade U.2 drives.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

u.2 is a pain in the butt for signal integrity, especially at pcie 4. A m.2 slot is less problematic than a full cable that may or may not need redrivers

[@CheapSushi]

as far as just industrial design, those SSD coolers look cool as hell; makes it look like some kind of fusion reactor going on. The AIO for the SSD is just pure flex in terms of design. It's so goofy that I want it.

[@alisioardiona727]

Impressive how AI is so well integrated in all these products !

[@Goodmanperson55]

That camera-mount SSD definitely looks very interesting. What would be cool for Teamgroup to do is for them to release just an enclosure. Additionally, they could release one that has two M.2 slots for RAID1 capability. A lot of pros put a lot of value in dual-card slot cameras for the same reason.

[@mockier]

These M.2 coolers look wild! Looking forward to the reviews, hopefully they send you both the liquid cooler ones. Would be interesting to test with SSD but also M.2 AI module to see what the use case is, if it's needed at all.

[@novinovic298]

I remember how everyone was happy when large northbridge coolers disappeared from mobos and we finally had alot of clearence between first pci-e slot and cpu.... now with these insane m.2 coolers clearence problems return...

[@startedtech]

To be fair, there is virtually no reason for even the average enthusiast to get a PCIe Gen 5 drive. Gen 4 nvme speeds are already overkill for 99% of people.

[@auturgicflosculator2183]

@@startedtech Give game developers a little time.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

😮

[@lassebrustad]

​@@startedtechNVMe in general is still overkill for most gamers, SATA SSDs can still be good enough, even within e-sports

[@lassebrustad]

​@@auturgicflosculator2183it's not about game development, hardware can't really perform well enough to make use of gen4 speeds within gaming, and when we got fast enough hardware, 1 TB in a gaming PC will most likely be history, even 512 GB is about to be history

[@user-dj1hy6zc6q]

It used to be that I heard that NAND had reduced lifetime if it stayed too cool. I heard that it should slowly warm up and idle around 50c, and then if it heated up to 70 or 80c under load, that was great and you should be happy. The word of advice was to cool only the controller chip, if necessary. But now I see huge thermal pads and huge heatsinks everywhere, no one is trying to cool only one part or only cool a little bit, so I have to wonder if things have changed. In your upcoming review video, der8auer, can you address the topic about whether too much cooling is harmful?

[@Sunlight91]

How would you test that? It could easily take over 10 years before you find a statistical difference.

[@user-dj1hy6zc6q]

I don't think it is der8auer's job to test it. I think it is his job to inform us, if he wishes. Researchers already tested it and determined what I already said. The question I have is whether there is any newer research which disputes the previous research, or do people simply not care about longevity?

[@user-dj1hy6zc6q]

By the way, I know Der8auer's name is Roman. Since I don't know him, I assume he wants to be addressed by the moniker presented in the video. I mean no disrespect.

[@4zims]

A.I Ready SSD!

[@lassebrustad]

they forgot to make it gaming and RGB ready

[@1BigBen]

the WF01 are they using the old fan design where is motor is turning the fan blade and pump propeller

[@q1337]

4:58 a pumpless design would be awesome for that thing

[@garagegeek7917]

I would like these for VRM coolers. these may work pretty good on some old school 775 boards.

[@MagralhoPT]

Soon™ you will get a cooling solution for your cooling solution and the cycle will be completed!

[@lassebrustad]

nah, next up is a cooling solution for the case itself, not just the air inside. "watercooled PC case"

[@Wasmachineman]

that's called a water chiller lol

[@wewillrockyou1986]

I'm curious how the vibrations of those fans on the heavier m.2 coolers will affect the reliability of the drives and the slots in the longer term...

[@nadtz]

Crazy that something better than M.2 for consumer stuff doesn't exist yet with gen5 nvme running as hot as it does. The whole point of M.2 was it's size, if you have to put a huge cooler on it might as well use another form factor that can handle the heat better.

[@TrueBeckonedCall]

Not really. The primary benefit to first generation M.2 NVME drives (PCIE gen 3) was speed. The smaller size compared to SATA SDD/HDD was a bonus on top. Most users won't ever push their drives hard enough to have thermal problems (especially with motherboards having integrated heatsinks). These heatsinks only really seem relevant to small businesses or prosumers who are running a desktop as a super fast storage server. Even then the aio version seems excessive.

[@nadtz]

@@TrueBeckonedCall Look up M.2 spec, it was specifically designed to be small to fit in laptops. The speed has nothing to do with the form factor but the connection, there are other NVME implementations that handle heat much better. "Most users won't ever..." just means that some users will have problems.

[@TrueBeckonedCall]

@@nadtz We are talking about heatsinks designed for desktop computers though. For desktop users size matters a lot less. By "most users" I meant 99.999%. PCIE Gen4/5 NVME drives are so fast that there just aren't very many applications that can use there full bandwidth for an extended period of time. I agree with your point about using form factors that make sense when dealing with higher utilization use cases (like in servers).

[@nadtz]

@@TrueBeckonedCall The problem (or part of the problem) is that M.2 is becoming more popular in home/smb flash NAS devices and even Gen4 can throttle when used that way under decent load. I work with someone who does 8k video editing and we are pretty sure he's fried a couple M.2 drives copying huge files (200gb+) from his machine to his NAS, the problem stopped when we got him a U.2 drive that had decent airflow over it. These aren't particularly exotic use cases or anything, M.2 was never meant for the kind of heat gen4/5 drives can produce so it just makes more sense (to me) to make something better suited more readily available to consumers rather than band aid the problem with coolers.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

😮

[@concinnus]

Can't believe the Team Group desktop is using the nVidia power adapter, and after your ad with the PSU having a native 12-pin no less!

[@slowjocrow6451]

I like seeing all the new weird cooling stuff haha. I don't even overclock or do anything demanding with my PC, I just feel all satisfied when everything has nice cooling 🤣

[@dangerwr]

I've spotted you in random, non-purposeful video-bombs/collaborations. It just made me smile.

[@pauldoutre541]

I don't get the need for M.2 cooling wouldn't be better off with an ADD in Card version like the old OCZ Revodrive or WDC black AN1500 series card?

[@whyjay9959]

That would allow for a big cooler, at least if you have an x4 slot. Not that I would mind if they made x1 SSDs, that's still plenty.

[@ScriptureConsolidated]

Where can we buy the adjustable ram fans?

[@rekareaper]

The pink memory is sweet. I would grab a kit for daughter’s PC, but it would be under the RAM cooler anyways. That RAM cooler is an excellent idea and would work for CAMM2 modules as well.

[@LisaL.]

most daughters won't care much, buying her a handbag would be more appreciated

[@rekareaper]

@@LisaL. waste of comment.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

❤

[@ctmine4037]

Will they have that test bench for sale?

[@sharrodjohnson336]

Airflow (direction) on the WFO?

[@PunaJussi]

What is the use case where you even need to cool your ssd:s?

[@fa.h.]

They were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't start to think if they should.

[@whyjay9959]

Hope EDSFF comes to consumer space soon... Are those "AI" SSDs all-pseudo SLC? Could be nice for random read.

[@MikeBeazy]

you best believe im buying that watercooled M.2 heatsink for my Gen3 SATA m.2 drive!!!

[@arpwithm3rk]

That Motherboard screw mounted fan could also be cool for LN2 overclocking possibly.

[@gavingi5875]

This is my 2nd Ai craze .... in the early 80's during my IT degree everything in the world was "fuzzy Logic" ... only us new programmers doubted the system. and here we are again ...

[@larrydysondev]

corsair has an NVME waterblock ive been using for 4 years now. you can buy it separately from their nvme drives. cost me like 30 bux or so

[@infango]

you really need AIO with 120mm rad for you m.2 ? i wonder what will be faster to the market cooler gen 5 controllers for m.2 drives or aio cooler for old generations ?

[@earthtaurus5515]

Saw the insanity of the Gen5 M.2 cooling coming years ago... Looks like we're going to need a dedicated 360 radiator for the 3 NMVE Gen 5 cluster. Since it's the norm to cluster 3 NVME just below the GPU slot. So the question needs to be asked.... how do we now mount the GPU if such a 360 AIO installed? also the motherboard layouts will also need to evolve...

[@TaimatCR]

i wonder if that tiny m2 aio (the one from the thumbnail) could be used to cool handheld pcs or a similar idea at least

[@OddWorlderer]

A 2 stage cooling system complete with pre-cooling for all your cooling needs!

[@jeremybarber2837]

That small AIO m.2 cooler looks so so good. I genuinely wonder if you could use it with a m.2 based accelerator.

[@khoulwhip]

At some point, I think we're just going to be talking about refrigeration for keeping these machines cooled, because air and even water-cooling just won't be enough. How about some R&D in more efficient ASIC architectures that don't require a small nuclear reactor to power and don't reach temperatures rivaling the center of the Sun?

[@nic12344]

I remember a time not so long ago when everything had "HD" in it's name... Now it's the same thing, but with the cool new buzzword!

[@kitnoman]

I would love to get those ssd coolers with fans and I would use it on one of my handhelds customization hehe

[@r25012501]

OK but what does the Ai do on the ram?

[@dahahaka]

closed loop liquid cooler with pump at this scale is straight up insane, at this scale there's nothing to gain but marketing compared to using heatpipes

[@Del_UK]

NVME coolers are nice, it's the area of the motherboards are the issue. (Fastest NVME slots being nearest to CPU, the same area as the PCIE graphics slot) I would definitely buy a DDR memory cooler even in a closed case system, as the orientation of the DDR slots is awkward for good air flow. From memory, it's about a drop of 2 degrees Celsius. Not a huge drop in temperature on memory, yet the result is across the entire system is about 5 degrees Celsius.

[@Apollo-Computers]

I have the tforce xtreem ddr4 4133 c18 sticks and love them. Bought two sets. I just wish they had temp sensors. The mem fans would be good for me, i use obt as a case.

[@TheBigBlueMarble]

Reduced heat production is the next frontier in R&D for GPUs, CPUs, and now SSDs.

[@jonny11bonk]

I think the M.2 coolers are just unnecessarily big and bulky. Come on, you're not maxing your SSD out 24/7. I think the integrated motherboard or the small

[@MILO-bb4dv]

3:46 i wonder about those magnet, what happen when heatsink getting hotter? is it the still work? or just lost magnetisme?

[@ShadowManceri]

Nothing happens to them.

[@RicoElectrico]

Well below the Curie point I think.

[@UnbeltedSundew]

If they reach temps where they loose magnetism there'd be nothing of value left in the rest of the computer either.

[@jonny11bonk]

You would need to heat them up really high to demagnetize them. While some state the neodymium magnets lose their magnetization at around 80°C, it doesn't have to be. You can definitely also isolate the magnet with something less heat conductive. I also don't think such SSD with a big "butt" heatsink would throttle up to those 80°C.

[@bluefoxtv1566]

What SSD is pushing 100w and needing an AIO

[@lassebrustad]

the AI Super Inefficient NVMe gen6 SSD from the future

[@BlackwallSys]

that Dark WaterFlow 01 SSD Cooler for CPU/GPU will be...nice

[@perrolokofan2011]

5:06 POV: you're Tony Montana and want to build a master race tier PC

[@TheDougwoods]

I have the white T Create 6000MHz 30CL running with my N7 B650E and they look and work so good

[@WildRapier]

Next up, AIO's for RAM and VRAM, oh and PSU as well!

[@Chaos_God_of_Fate]

There are actually water cooled PSUs out there- I don't know if there's AIO versions though.

[@UrakazeX39]

Tt Floe RC240 CPU+RAM AIO 2020 release

[@phillycheesetake]

@@Chaos_God_of_Fate I have a water cooled PSU from 2006, they've been doing this for some time.

[@WildRapier]

@@c0rruptreality Liquid to liquid heat exchangers, coming soon to a PC near you!

[@WildRapier]

@@c0rruptreality Pretty confident those are in the works already!

[@formbi]

2:14 obviously it should be XDisk XXtra Fast Xtreme X

[@itsdeonlol]

The waterflow SSD cooler is so interesting.

[@UmmerFarooq-wx4yo]

Down to sdcard straight back up to 8 track tape size.

[@ShaunPaulOHagan]

soon be needing an M.2 riser cable to be able to mount the drives else where!

[@xBINARYGODx]

with most computer setups - those ssd's coolers are just not going to fit. - maybe with a board using that new form of ram you can have more space over to the side for such a thing, and hey, just have one giant heatsink for both.

[@thomascrum185]

I wonder if any of the employees that work at Team Group have ever built a PC before? Just imagine a PC company that the employees and upper management were very knowledgeable in regards to PC and their components.

[@IamBonek]

That was some fantastic Ai content, hope to see more content around Ai

[@BrandensOutdoorChannel]

If an ssd doesn't help gaming performance, i don't care. I still run a Gen 3 NVME ssd and it's fine.

[@Александр-ш3г2ш]

"Not sure if I'm a big fan" - says Roman, while holding a fan

[@rusTORK]

Finally a decent purpose for 120mm AiO - cool tiny SSD.

[@Armi1P]

This whole stand feels like gold plated digital optical audio connectors advertised for having better sound quality.

[@smartguy9765]

But does the AI SSD come with an AI AIO?

[@Nicc93]

with the dual chipsets on x670e boards, this might need a waterblock soon aswell. Mine gets pretty toasty even with airflow and outside the case

[@anthixious]

We need more non-RGB RAM in the future. Looking to build a white PC with white RAM or RAM with white LEDs. Same with a black theme.

[@GimpyChinaman]

6:11 Nah, especially next to that AiO visually those are little fans.

[@CHURINLab]

liquid-cool-anything era is back

[@jameswarner7435]

OMG, that is the cutest AIO cooler EVER!

[@ErnestJay88]

What next ? PCIE 6.0 NVME SSD needs constant liquid nitrogen cooler.

[@Skobeloff...]

The m.2 ssd form factor exceeded its suitability with gen5, the form factor needs to be redesigned. Motherboard designs generally do not allow for advanced cooling aside from the top slot.

[@cracklingice]

I want to get me a couple memory coolers for my X99 but it's surprisingly hard to find them even tho they used to be like $2 in the 2010s. lol

[@MancWithAMouth]

Literally named AI to look fancier than it is and stand out in a market of very aggressive gamer type naming schemes

[@mirror1766]

Maybe AI means that the memory returns the most expected answer instead of what you meant to store in memory?

[@tetradb_]

RIP that AIO lifespan @1:00

[@blunaa943]

I wonder when we get fans for our case screws🧐

[@KingKaleXIV]

Mr. Bauer..., be careful! The norwood reaper is in the midst...

[@MakeYourVision]

"WTF01" Best name for this cooler

[@gdi69]

It kinda feels like these big M.2 coolers defeat the purpose of the form factor. 😅 But I guess we haven't seen any improvement in SATA or an alternative in years so I guess there's no where else to go with it.

[@whyjay9959]

EDSFF has some very nice features.

[@vulcan4d]

m.2 don't allow enough power to require water cooling lol. What they should focus more when it comes to AI is creating low power and efficient AI accelerators using the M.2 format, that way you don't need the latest CPU with a TPU and you can use system memory.

[@nadussee]

My next pc build will have a celeron and 128gb ssd because i spent all my budget on that SSD cooler and the noctua desk fan.

[@GLHerzberg]

3:50 LOL, "Might as well call it 'WTF'01".

[@TechModProjects]

I can't wait for a waterblocksfor my IO shield

[@alastairstedman7840]

Consumers at least, don't need coolers like this for SSDs We rarely ever hit our drives hard or long enough to necessitate this level of cooling. It takes multiple repeat runs of As SSD to get my ssd hot enough to reduce performance when running it with its stock heatsink.

[@KeyboardSavant]

M.2 heatsinks are making the drives themselves the size of a standard hard drive. And don't even get me started on a full AIO enclosure for liquid cooling an SSD. My goodness...

[@noobulon4334]

There is one justification I can think of that an ssd would have ai in the name, that being ssds designed for write intensive loads

[@superflyguy4488]

The sole contribution AI has made to humanity is being able to play Cyberpunk 2077 at a solid 60fps with a £2000 GPU

[@peterpeter5666]

gonna love to see how u incorperate a ssd with a cooler bigger then a 2.5 hard drive into a case and mobo.

[@hokiturmix]

Closed loop water coolers leak some water over time. My guess is the leak is more probable if there is more connection points. If an AIO contains very little water, even if they have minimal amount of connection points, the leak of water will have a lot bigger impact. How many water in it How many points it can leak How much leak can cause severe performance degradation. Open loops has no such problem until the reservoir dries off. My Corsair H100i was good enough for 5 years. I used it for 7 but the last 2 years was with ever increasing CPU temps.

[@WayStedYou]

an entire AIO for an m.2 is crazy

[@BReal-10EC]

Water cooled SDD. WTF indeed. The ONLY benefit might be the volume of water takes a while to heat up, versus say just a normal heat sink with fan. But even then... this seems a stretch. Just how how do these SSDs get is normal use now?