My Boyfriend Is Spiritually Lethargic - Should I Still Marry Him?

Ask Pastor John
Episode: 1683
Transcript: www.desiringgod.org/interview...

[@simbelmyne1277]

Dear Crystal, Praying for you. I was in your position 40 years ago, and I did get married. I love him but it has been a very difficult time with many issues. He has totally walked away from God. It hasn’t been the Christian home in which I wanted to raise our children.

[@mmichy]

Thank you for sharing your experience. In my experience, spiritual maturity in yourself & your partner is more important than a lot of things in a relationship (money, parenting styles, lifestyles, etc). This is because with two mature Christians, who have the dwelling of the Holy Spirit, who understand their roles in the covenant of marriage, can overcome even those big issues like parenting styles. Our goal as Christians is One - to be conformed into the image of Christ. And if both partners are pursuing the same goal of conforming to the same Person - even big differences that we see as “deal breakers” are no longer deal breakers.

[@caroline4801]

@@mmichy same for me!! I 100% agree with the things you wrote. Thank you for sharing that. May God bless you both. I will be praying that you’ll still experience the grace of living in a Christian home as you wanted once.

[@edward265]

Thank you for sharing. I will pray for you. I share a similar experience in my marriage.

[@kesley.]

I married a man who I thought would progress in becoming a devoted Christian and didn't. We're now separated after 10 years, which I thought was the right thing to do based on 2 Cor 6:14,17 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? Therefore, “Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” And now he is not willing to take me back, which makes me wonder if I did the right thing. I'm only 34 but my future looks bleak- I want a marriage and a family but it seems I can't remarry. I don't know what to do, I feel like I have no hope left

[@allonesea]

@@kesley. You should pray about it and ask God for guidance. God wants us to put our heavy burdens on him and He will make them light burdens. God will let you know what that means in His own way.

[@theambitiouschic]

Wow. This episode was timely for me! I recently ended a long term relationship with someone who professes Christ (we started dating when I wasn’t saved, so we were ‘unequally yolked’ from the beginning), but after the Lord saved me I started to notice he was used to doing “church”, but not spending time growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus. When we would sin (ex. sexual sin), I would address how grieved I was with it, but he didn’t seem to be moved. When I would addressed my concerns regarding leadership/submission, he didn’t take it seriously. When I started to attend a Christ-centered church, I was going alone while he was busy working or going to his church. Although we were at the stage engagement/marriage, I just couldn’t see myself committing to this for my natural life, and even though it has been difficult I’m so grateful the Lord is ordering my steps in this new season. We cannot change people, and I know many women believe they can change a man themselves. The Holy Spirit changes the hearts of man!

[@Randompancakes12345]

That must have been very difficult but you did the right thing. Don't stop praying though. All things are possible with God.

[@DP-fg3dv]

It cuts both ways: a man cannot change a woman by himself. Radical feminism has destroyed several generations of women and, by extension, weak men.

[@theambitiouschic]

@@DP-fg3dv Absolutely! And I will say I didn’t mention my own errors in my comment (before salvation I held fast to damaging feminist ideologies).

[@limoyollan]

Congratulations !!!the step you took was bold, right and very difficult especially because you were at the engagement stage. May the Lord continue to order your steps as you seek Him more and more each day. His Grace is sufficient.

[@qw2ps4]

Sleeping with him before marriage, a recipe for disaster. God says so over and over again. I do hope you'll not make that mistake again.

[@RamonaQ]

NO! Don't do it! Do not marry a man who does not love God more than he loves you. You. Will. REGRET IT. I haven't finished the video, so hopefully Piper says this, but.... I would warn any women to consider being "unequally yoked" as not simply whether or not the man is a believer, but how seriously he takes his walk w/ the Lord. You want a man to lead your family, not one you have to drag to church, et al. It may hurt to break off the relationship, but I promise you, if you don't, it is going to give you a LIFETIME of pain and grief. And don't take some after-the-fact scrambling, slapping together some 'deeper walk' to be genuine. It could just be a ploy. Guard your heart. Guard the hearts of your future children. Don't be stupid. If you have people in your life who love the Lord, care about you, ask their opinion of the man. But even if all of them say he's great, and something in your spirit has a hitch - listen to that hitch. Run. Don't walk. SPRINT in the opposite direction.

[@ryandawson2877]

Amen amen and amen!

[@abenalamptey850]

Don’t do it to yourself Crystal! When you’re in…you’re in for life! Take your time and keep your eyes on Christ. I know I am! It is a best! God help you 🙏🏾

[@kpballa1009]

I would start with the problem of this modern day "boyfriend"/"girlfriend" concept.. This thing where you're not even married but you're considered a "couple", sort of belonging to each other and normally commit all kinds of sexual impurity with each other touching each other and doing all kinds of things with each other when alone (and get alone) and it's just considered normal to do when you are "boyfriends"/"girlfriends"... which the professing church today can't even discern as pagan.. When you are courting/getting to know whether you want to marry this person or not, you honor each other as brothers and sisters in Christ and because you love them in Christ you don't get alone with them and defile each other. You love this brother/sister in Christ too much to do that. You have a simple goal of wanting to know this person correctly (with the help of others around) so you can decide whether you will marry this person or not without getting attached to them physically or any other way (which only gets both of you blinded and no longer able to discern correctly).

[@emilyb5038]

Thank you for this comment. I just recently ended a relationship where I noticed I fell into this worldly pattern (my first Christian relationship). Thank you for being gracious and wording it in such a way that shows pity and forgiveness for us young people who just do not know... I never learned that I should seek purity with so much aversion to worldly ways until just recently and I'm so grateful that the Spirit urged me on to end things for the time being.

[@kpballa1009]

@@emilyb5038 I highly recommend looking up Paul Washer - manhood; courtship; marriage

[@chelseabarker2250]

@@emilyb5038 also everything by Elizabeth elliot! What a woman!

[@StallionFernando]

It's sad that is very common. So many weak Christian men, it's no wonder the church is in the shape that it's in and why so many "Christian" relationships fail. Where are the Christ fearing men?

[@vickymor3963]

It's so sad.

[@jordanpryor4771]

Men are saying the same about women!

[@juliachan8421]

amenn

[@airishviscara2326]

True

[@whome6081]

So grateful for this question. A guy I was dating just proposed to me and I had to step back because as nice as he treats me and as special as he makes me feel, he’s not serious about God. He plays disrespectful music constantly, loves Halloween (which I disagree with celebrating), and makes strange comments when I mention Jesus, although he claims to believe. It’s hard because I literally just want to be married, but of course to the right man.

[@collettegeorge969]

“God gives His best to those who leave the choice to Him” (not sure of real author). Nevertheless PLEASE believe that. Don’t settle for second or third best. If God knows the hairs on your head, then He knows the man for you- if that is part of His plan for your life.

[@ivanaenoh]

So wise of you for stepping back first!!🤯👍🏽👍🏽

[@whome6081]

The part I struggle with most is the “if”. I need to be okay with what God wants even when it’s not what I want. Thank you for the kind words.

[@collettegeorge969]

@@whome6081 So understandable. Jesus himself struggled for a short time with this idea of God’s willl when he was in the garden of Gethsemane. I think, as we strive to fulfill the two greatest commencements : Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself. This is a journey of growing in grace for all of us. Keep pressing on and pressing in!👍🏾

[@ivanaenoh]

@@collettegeorge969 I would just like to add that loving your neighbour doesn't have to mean to go against your convictions.. for example I do not drink alcoho to honor God, because of my conviction. But only because I love and please my boyfriend, I would never drink alcohol...😔😔✅

[@jessedphillips]

Part of the reason that so many young men lack leadership qualities is because our culture has made men feel guilty about leadership. Any aspect of leadership that is exercised, particularly over a wife, is viewed and denigrated as being chauvinistic, oppressive, or overly patriarchal. This is not an excuse for young men to abdicate that role, it is simply an explanation that, for me, informed the way I approached my relationships when I was younger. Culture has made many women, even Christian women, abhor the idea of being subject to anyone's authority particularly a husband. So we need to instill in men the understanding of their role to lead in sacrificial love but we also need to have more women who view things the way the questioner does in this episode. Good on her.

[@josephcatsanchez6590]

DON'T DO IT, IT'S TOO MUCH WORK, AGGRAVATION AND DISAPPOINTMENTS!!!!

[@yellow.marisa]

I pray for wisdom for this lady. Extremely difficult position to be in!

[@trevorjennings8483]

Hello 👋

[@jonizabel1952]

Great, godly advice! So true that the woman would be destined for a lifetime of frustration if she married a spiritually lethargic man!

[@panda22518]

I love the part about singleness. So many churches pay a lot of attention to marriage and courting.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Until you realize that his real goal is to destroy families and marriage by setting the expectations and standards so high no one could reach them, while he married very young. What he is really telling you is if you follow my advice, you might as well buy a dog and die alone. Then you realize you have been duped.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@broco6608 Christ's are not too high but Piper's like the Pharisees of Mat 24:3 are way too high. Piper lies and makes up his own rules which he himself never followed. Please cite one standard of Jesus' that the man in the letter was not reaching. There are none and yet both the picky witchy girl and girlish Piper don't find him "spiritual enough based on nothing. And you are just as bad. Unequally yoked refers not to levels of "spiritualty", but rather whether bohare Christans. 2 Cor 6:14 Surely super "spiritual" people like you the girl and Piper know that but it seems you don't. Chew on that for a while, sinner.

[@FighterOfTheGoodFight]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 says the arrogant sinner himself...

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@FighterOfTheGoodFight Says the arrogant coward hiding proudly behind the name of a fictional gangster. Nice!

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@broco6608 peach Cobbler, you have yet to cite even one specific sin the man in the video committed. You are the wrongful judge and a liar.

[@KeondraRB]

This is good! You are truly being led with this response !

[@collettegeorge969]

Cristal should also be mindful of the unintended influence of a husband who does not really have a passion for serving God; it would rub off on her and on their children. It would be challenging to raise godly seed.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Collette, you know nothing about the man. He may well be serving God in his own way. Men are not women tho John Piper comes real close. If she has no man which seems to be her other option, there may be no children to rub off on. Maybe healthy children need botha man and a woman to "rub" on them and influence them so you do not get effeminate men like John Piper.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@broco6608 You would have to ask Piper why he is such a girly ,effeminate man and not masculine at all. Perhaps because he knows it pleases silly women like you who pay his fat salary. Jesus was strong and masculine. So were the old fishermen Peter, and James and John. So was Paul the tentmaker. None of them nor I were ungodly but they spoke straight and to the point. They did not tickle ears nor couch their speech is special "God Language." They were not mealy mouth feminists like Piper. Peach Cobbler, name one real sin that the man referred to in the video committed. Is he a drunk or drug addict? Does he beat her? Is he a thief? Does he murder? Having a more masculine personality than her or Piper is a virtue, not a sin. She admits that he is a Christian and wants to have a Christ centered marriage (Listen to her letter again closely), but she wants to decide how that will happen and what it will look like. She is the one who is rebellious against God's command to submit to her husband. Eph 5:22-33 Yes I know they are not married but we are not talking about sex here and if she cannot submit intellectually, practically and spiritually to him now, she won't later. You cannot flip a switch. She is an angry, judgmental feminist in rebellion against God and men. Piper isn't a real man or a real Christian, so she runs to him.

[@HearGodsWord]

Maybe set him up with an older brother in the faith, who can help him grow in maturity, and keep praying for him.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Yes, a good Christian MAN should be mentoring him, NOT his future wife who must submit to him. And maybe she should quit expecting him to be a woman.

[@cympimpin20]

But that takes real work and consideration for others. *Actually* acting out of Love. Which as I've heard is allegedly patient, kind, keeps no record of wrongs, etc. It's far easier to simply cast someone off, ruin their life, cause them emotional turmoil, but make a easy escape that works out best for you personally, then just ask God to forgive you after the fact and forget about the real damage you did to another person. Actually putting in the time, work, and hard effort to help someone grow and treat them with love and patience while not giving up on them is hard work. Screwing them over for your own sake, forgetting about them, then telling yourself it's all good because God forgives you and moving on with a smile on your face is way easier.

[@ryandawson2877]

If he is hungry for God he will find away. It’s great to set people up and all of that, but if he wants it he will find it. It’s really not primarily her job to be doing that anyway. It’s good to do, but it’s not primarily her responsibility.

[@ryandawson2877]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 what do you mean by expecting him to be a woman? If you mean by halfway submitting to her by choosing to grow in Christ then I guess I agree with you, if by being a woman you mean him submitting to Christ I would totally disagree… But I totally agree that it is not her job to straighten him out. It’s his job.

[@ryandawson2877]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 she is definitely right to want to see changes in him before she marries him, but from what we have heard, I would have 1 million red flags up already because he could choose to act like he’s growing in Christ when he really isn’t. Anyone can make themselves go to church and go to the men’s group.

[@Psalm2710_]

If you marry this man, you will sadly sit by yourself in church, pull all the weight spiritually until you are exhausted and spend your whole life fighting back bitterness...take it from someone who knows...add kids to the mess and you will also have to fight fear that they will follow in his steps rather than after God. When your 7 year old says he hates church bc Dad doesn't have to go...I don't wish that on any sister.

[@JiLoa13]

Aye, such a big topic, this is just the tip of the iceberg. I see so many women in relationships with men that are spiritually lethargic, or caught up in the world. I have to lead my mom because my stepdad is apathetic to being a man of God. My sister because her boyfriend of 20 years isn't a Christian. A female friend because men have taken advantage of her good heart and has a wrong theology. Why do so many good women end up with bad men and the good guys.. well yeah.. Haha /facepalm Then the flip side is that I know so little when I see spiritual towering men of God like the Baucham's, Piper's, Sproul's, MacArthur's, Washer's, etc. I am pulled between 2 constants of loneliness/desire for companionship and focusing on living for God and eternity, there is no time to play house, there is an urgency to save souls, taking care of the poor, the widows, the fatherless. Not to mention this "best life now" we see around us that corrupts the word of God. Anyways, finish venting. I appreciate pastor John Pipers uploads, he so concise and never fails to mention every detail surrounding the questions over and above what is asked, we have answer to questions we didn't even think of asking.

[@ryandawson2877]

Your sister has a boyfriend of 20 years? That’s crazy! If she doesn’t know by now that that’s not right something is wrong. I believe God has a mate for everyone of us who desire one if we will believe him for it. It is difficult when we see people compromising all around us, but we don’t have to. I choose not to. His grace is too great. The problem is I think some people just want to be married so badly they will just marry whatever and that’s really sad. Then you see what some of them go through and it’s heartbreaking. All we can do is warn people and give them the word and they do with it what they will. People tend to do what they want to do many times even if they know it’s not right.

[@JiLoa13]

@@ryandawson2877 Indeed, I agree with you on your points. That was my one of my points, 20 years and still continue in their ways. My sister met her boyfriend when she left the church and turned her back on God due to hyposcrisy inside the church and at home, she moved to my very unspiritual father and was under his care and guidance for 2 years. It took about 10 years for her to come back to God, then she accepted her "situation". Well done for not compromising, it's rare and excellent in character. I have comrpomised a few times in my walk before. No more though. Yes, there are people that seek marriage without proper care, it is sad when their marriages collapse or what they go through for not having due care before making such a commitment. As you say all that we can do is warn, hope and pray. It's hard in a world where everyone is compromising, again well done to you keep strong and close to God.

[@chillibean3005]

Thanks for asking Crystal! I've been there and I decided to end it. It really is not easy being in this kind of relationship, especially when you've been in this relationship for a long time. But to question whether it is right to marry a spiritually lethargic man itself indicates something is not right. Thank God for John Piper for answering this question, it really is helpful for you and us women to discern better on our relationship. God bless.

[@edward265]

I share a similar experience to this. My wife christianity is laided back similar to this women situation. If your hushand or wife is like this love them. I have been married 13 years now to her. It is not easy at all but honor Christ and follow this teachings. It could lead them to the Lord. It hard to raise children in this situation but I will say the Lord has brought my daughter to himself. She is growing holiness and love you for God.

[@simiohh]

This was so good. Pastor John Piper is such a blessing.

[@Serah888]

I dont even need to watch before I answer: no. Just know I'm not saying this for no reason. It will be the worse decision of your life. Your children will bear your bad decision as well. OK now I'll watch the video ;)

[@Sldejo]

Pause...it’s not fall in love. It’s WALK in love. Ephesians 5:2. If you can fall in love, you can fall out of love. This video is VERY good!

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

This video is manbashing feminist nonsense. You have not heard the man's side. She never mentioned bad or ungodly behavior, just her own desire to lead the family spiritually and change him into her own image which goes against Go's plan. So what if he is not "vibrant"? Vibrant is NOT a spiritual gift or a sign of the Spirit. She wants him to be more feminine and emotional. He is a man. Her choices her are accept a less emotional, typical male, marry a gay man, become a lesbian, or buy a dog and die alone. I would go with the first one if I were her.

[@ska55124]

John, so glad you know her thought and intentions!! Why don’t you become a marriage counselor since you know everything and everyone!! Where did she state she wants to rule the roost? The husband is head of the household and he is supposed to lead, yet if he idols her instead of the Lord, obviously something is wrong!! It is hard to raise children when you feel like you yourself are still learning and the husband won’t help educate and nurture the children in the Lord, he won’t pray, he won’t read the Bible with the wife or kids!! How is that her fault and her wanting to rule the roost? This is how she grew up and I am the mom in the scenario I just described and her fiancé is doing the same thing my husband is doing! That is unequally yoked my friend!

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@ska55124 Susie, I know her thoughts and intentions and you do too if you listened because she boldly stated them. At 40 seconds in she says “I have shared with him my desire to build a Christ centered family frequently have tried to point him towards Christ.” This is with a man she said was already a Christian and whom she is not yet married to and already she is IN CHARGE. She doesn’t desire to submit to him and follow his lead, she is giving him marching orders. She is in charge and in rebellion against God by her own evidence. It is NOT her job to “point him to Christ.” He already knows Christ. John Piper and you judge the man without hearing a word from him. You are both doing evil. She condemns herself. Where on earth do you get the “idols her instead of the Lord nonsense?” That is pure John Piper lies. God loves marriage and tells us to marry. Idolatry is NOT loving your spouse. It is chasing literal other gods. Please actually read the unequally yoked passage. 2 Cor 6::14 means ONLY that Christians should not marry non-Christians. PERIOD not all the other garbage people have tried to tie it to. The context is blindingly obvious. 2 Cor 6:14-18 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Argue with Paul about what unequally yoked means. It is his metaphor. He has the copyright. If you make it mean everything, it ends up meaning nothing. Every parent learns as he or she goes. It is on the job training. Their parents and church should help train you when you are kids but everyone learns hands on. Your husband is supposed to pray privately and so are you. Mat 6:5-8. As for Bible instruction maybe your husband was never taught by a man he respects (not you) that this is his duty as a husband. Did you ever hear your pastor say this was your husband’s job. I never did until I read it myself. Eph 5:22-33 I Cor14:34-36 It isn’t preached about much because pastors want you to come to them and commit spiritual infidelity with them rather than the Pastor instructing the husbands and the husbands instructing their wives. Pastors are jealous of husband’s authority many times. Did your father teach your husband this was his responsibility? Did his father? Why not? Don’t blame him if he was never taught. Find a good Christian man he and your daughter’s fiancé respect to tell them. You cannot do it. Not your job and it will backfire.

[@hzlkelly]

Thank You Holy Spirit for confirming your word to me. This is beautiful.

[@Bzapp725]

Good question and answer

[@eliseueurico9831]

I don’t know what goes on on the head of so called believers today! Why would you consider even Dating someone like that? Run away child of God. Put your affairs in order and pray and listen to the instructions of your spiritual fathers. If you don’t have look for someone to father you spiritually

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Because this is the best she has to choose from and probably better than she merits. You haven't heard HIS side nor are you interested in it. Maybe HE should be doing the running.

[@eliseueurico9831]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 brother, I’m not being pessimist. It’s just Sad what our sisters are going though. Don’t say it’s the best she has to choose from. Because that’s the problem. We always chose, but we don’t seek guidance from God or our spiritual fathers to know which one we should marry. Even if this Guy was a true Christian doesn’t qualify him to marry the girl because God doesn’t unite people but He unites purpose. If your purpose In God differs from the one you’re with, you’re digging a grave for yourself. But many people don’t know that because of the lack of discipleships and spiritual paternity Just like pastor John highlighted. In marriage the man becomes the father of the wife. That’s why God says MAN shall leave his father and mother and unte to the woman. It doesn’t say the same about the woman because she’s leaving her father to gain another! That’s why a man should be Spiritually mature and grace to be a father to the wife and help her be the best of herself and fulfill her purpose. Let’s not say it’s the best she’s to choose from, but believe that God has always someone reserved for us. There are many Godly man out there. But we know that good Things need to be found. It’s not out there for everyone to see.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@eliseueurico9831 EE, that is pious SOUNDING drivel and heresy. Please find a new church that actually teaches the Bible. 1) There is no such thing as “spiritual paternity”. We don’t have “spiritual fathers.” We have ONE Father in heaven. Matthew 23:9 “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.” Yes I know Paul called himself a spiritual father once and Paul was dead wrong. Jesus is God and Paul is not. 2) “That’s why God says MAN shall leave his father and mother and unte to the woman. It doesn’t say the same about the woman because she’s leaving her father to gain another! “ A woman’s husband is NOT her father. The Bible never calls him that. And she is not his Mommy either. Both are weird and wrong. He is her spiritual leader over and above the pastor. She is to learn from him and it is his job to instruct her. I Cor 14:35 Eph 5:22-33 Before she marries she should learn from her parents and specifically her human father. And when she marries she DOES leave her parents or should. Are you living in your wife’s parents’ basement? 3) Please show me where the Bible says that the pastors or “spiritual Fathers” or even God picks our mates for us. There are none. 4) Where in the Bible does it say God unites purpose? That sounds spiritual but it is not Biblical. Instead Jesus said of marriage in Matthew 19:6 “So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” It was clearly people God joined NOT purpose. 5) The unequally Yolked passage 2 Cor 6::14 means ONLY that Christians should not marry non-Christians. PERIOD not all the other garbage people have tried to tie it to. The context is blindlingly obvious. 2 Cor 6:14-18 14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. There is nothing about purpose, money, looks, social class, or anything else. Just Christian and non-Christian. Being a single Christian male DOES qualify the man to marry this woman. He may or may not be the “best” choice available to her, but he does qualify. Sure she should get the best advice available but ultimately, he asks and she has to decide. 6) It is sad but our sisters are putting themselves through this, by listening to effeminate “spiritual fathers” like you and John Piper. They should find the best Christian man they can find, marry him if he will have her, and follow his purpose wherever it takes them. She has no “purpose” other than to be a proper helper to her husband and to bear him children. Genesis 2:18

[@brontek5146]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 thank you for this. I feel that so many Christian “leaders” or whatever are becoming super “spiritual” and not biblical. I’ve often felt more confused when listening to advice like the one in this video. I nearly walked away from the father of my child because of the advice like the one in this video. I believe women need to take a step back and wonder if criticism is taking over. I feel that God has helped me realise how critical I was towards my fiancé and that was the true source of my anguish, not his apparent faults that I thought were the problem. I pray this girl takes a step back from this advice and considers whether her hyper criticism and lack of love could be an issue. Ecclesiastes’s 4:9 9 Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their labor: 10 If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them up. 11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. I know this verse may not be about marriage, but it can be applied to it. God created us to be in partnership, to be in intimate relationships with one imperfect person to another! “Love is not self-seeking, it keeps no record of wrongs, it always protects, always trusts, always hopes and always preserves!” I don’t get any of that from the advice in this video. I know I don’t know these people, but it’s another perspective to consider.

[@KeondraRB]

This has convicted me!

[@BlackScreen55]

I ended a 4 year relationship with a girl that wanted to study with Jehovahs Witnesses. She could care less for the truth. Looking ahead, I could see the disaster of a marriage it would’ve been if I chose to stay

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Now that is different. She actively wanted to follow a Goup that believes Jesus is not the one true God, part of the Trinity. This poor guy just wasn't bubbly vibrant engough for her taste. Apples and oranges.

[@chriszablocki2460]

Maybe he's exhausted from being spiritually tested. I've never heard the term "spiritually lethargic". But you shouldn't have to question a marriage.

[@marquesn77]

Not a good idea sweetie, move on

[@1locomotiveman]

A.w. Tozer describes this condition well: “there is little communion and little joy in the Lord.”

[@jaredchristian9723]

hey can I ask, do you happen to know where Tozer said this? I'd love to hear Tozer talk on this

[@1locomotiveman]

@@jaredchristian9723 I was googling earlier on spiritual lethargy, and his quote came up in that. I have not read this book, but here it is; The Danger Of a Shallow Faith Quotes by A.W. Tozer - Good Reads

[@jaredchristian9723]

oh right on. now was the quote directed at dating/marriage? if u don't know that's totally cool

[@deshaunhill7934]

Walk By Faith 2 Corithains 5:7 ❤️✝️🙏🏾📖😇🛐

[@EustisRider]

Red flags abound. You're asking for a reason. Your marriage will be dry and unfulfilling for you. You will never "fix" him. Just ask any wife.

[@rongrimes9102]

I heard Steve Harvey once say that woman are bad at not paying attention to red flags in a relationship

[@jordanpryor4771]

@@rongrimes9102 Understandable! Like the girl that recently got killed Gabby Petito!

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

This woman herself is a walking, talking Communist Party parade. She wants to rule the relationship. Her standards decide who is spiritual. She wants her man to show female emotionality. AND she says this is the BEST man that will have her and she is still complaining. It is not her that should run away.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@broco6608 Maybe she should run to you and marry you. Neither of you want a man. Or you can both marry Piper. He isn't a real man.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@broco6608 Don't worry. You probably will be. And all real men say thank God for that.

[@kaylensee9784]

“Think in terms of growing into the humble, Christ-like, wise, strong, discerning, mature, man that could lead a godly, mature, courageous, articulate woman.” So freeing to hear these words. ❤️

[@trevorjennings8483]

Hello

[@lindapreston9117]

Sometimes you can see a cloud from a distance, this is evident from Scripture that if you marry a non-believer you will have nothing but Hell, and unless you are deeply, spiritually strong and can keep in line with scripture you had better really think twice. You can be a cover for him if you are sold out, and even if you are it won’t be easy. It can make you stronger spiritually but do remember that Satan has one aim to defame God and sit in His seat. The sad thing is, it will be difficult to find deeply rooted spiritual partners because most people are only religious and you won’t know until you get deeper. God bless, remember me if you want to talk

[@angloaust1575]

Provide support some are weak in the faith!

[@sammyiam0725]

No leave Him. Let God work on him alone. If he really Loves you believe me God will use it !!! It happened to me !

[@cympimpin20]

Bullshit. That's such a cop-out response. We're talking about another human being with a soul, potentially unsaved, that one claims to love, on top of the love one should have for all people and the desire to see all people saved. In addition to that, we're talking about this particular person being someone that you're supposed to love so much more than anyone else on earth, that you are to become one with them. And you are deliberately choosing to wound them in one of the worst ways someone can wound another, and then tell them "this is what God wants me to do to you". You *honestly* think that they are going to become *more* likely to get closer to God after you have chosen to strike at them in such a monumentally painful and life altering way, and then told them that the entire reason you dealt them that wound is because it's what God wants? You really think that? I think deep down you know that it is actually far more realistic that they will see your betrayal and abandonment of them, that you credit to God, as evidence that love, yours and God's, are nothing but pleasant sounding lies, and they will actually drift even further from God because from then on they will always associate God's will with the pain you dealt them on God's behalf. And you know that deep down you're ok with that because it will make *you* feel better*. You're ok with destroying their future, their belief in promises, in love, in faithfulness, in partnership with another, giving them emotional trauma that will last for decades and decades, all for your own ease and comfort, and then passing off the blame for that pain on God, while telling yourself pleasant vagaries like "well, God will make it right for them somehow, not my problem anymore" so you don't have to own up to the blame for what you did to them on purpose. You are totally fine with kicking them to the curb, leaving them alone in the dust to flounder in misery, while you go off to search for something better for you, while telling yourself that it's totally fine and it's not your problem anymore.

[@aletheamallory9674]

TRUTH........."RUN, CRYSTAL RUN"👑

[@LucianaPelota]

RUN WHILE YOU CAN!!!

[@rejoicingbones]

Don’t do it! Find your joy and fulfilment in Christ! Ladies, I pray your brothers in Christ will grow in faith and give you someone to choose from. Step up men!

[@jordanpryor4771]

Step up too women!

[@dsg801]

How about the other way around? What if my girlfriend is the one going through some spiritual laziness? What are the attributes should I seek from a chrsitian woman? And, how do you know if she's on the way growing to the fullness of Christ while just off the start... or she may not even be converted yet in the worst case scenario possible?

[@JONDOES]

I think most of this could also be said if the genders were switched, save maybe less emphasis on spiritual leadership. In dating and seeing someone in different situations, you'll be able to pick up on their trajectory and true heart for the Lord or if it's just a desire for a self-focused easy Christian life. The question on spiritual attributes to look for in a Christian woman I think would be a separate answer (or Google search). Finally, dating an unbeliever can be tough because you wouldn't want her to convert to fit your ideals, but to follow God first before you. So I would be careful in dating unbelievers, possibly keeping it only friendship level until you're sure they're following Jesus.

[@josephcassano6296]

Just like you knew when you were saved, you can tell in others

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Define "spiritual Laziness". No one is 100% energized about anything all the time. That is unrealistic Tho John Piper wrongly promotes it. Does she believe in her heart and actions that Jesus was the Messiah, God the Son? That is rare enough to find without demanding SuperChristian Woman 24/7/365. What attributes should you look for : 1) Christianity as mentioned above. 2) Can she submit to your leadership? Can she submit to anyone? Pretty rare. 3) Does she know when to shut up? If not ,she is too dangerous to have around. You cannot know what her future will be no more than she knows yours. Pick the best that will have you and make the best of it. However, do not pick a basket case as a home improvement project. Pick good emotional bones.

[@vickymor3963]

Listen to Voddie Baucham's sermon on Biblical manhood and womanhood. It opened my eyes to the type of woman I should be and the type of man I should choose as my husband.

[@mystrength5640]

Wow, this is very unusual! Sorry 🙏🏻

[@14xx07]

But.. as much as I hear others say that guys too are asking where are the godly woman.. This still doesn’t answer me and my close friend’s desire and questions. We serve, we grow and desire to honour Him. We desire for children and building a loving home. Listened to every advice possible and applied into our lives… But amidst her local church and mine, and cross leadership conferences, we have not meet someone either of us see eye to eye with and at a right time.. In this 2year long and ongoing lock down, it seem so bleak especially in our late 20s. Seriously.. Where are the godly man? 😔

[@LRibeiro97]

Why would you start a relationship with someone who you think is "spiritually lethargic" to begin with? Also, if you are thinking of breaking the relationship with him because of this reason, then tell him that you are thinking about it to see if he tries to change and improve. Don't just drop it on him.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Because she wants him to read her mind and she also says she is bossing him around and judging him. He should run. Short of conversion, she will never submit to any man accept in the throes of passion.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@broco6608 Funny, I was going to say that about you. You haven't said anything true or helpful to the discussion yet.

[@johnterry804]

No it will not end well!

[@arabella8395]

Run, sis. You want a leader and he ain’t one of them.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

How do you know? Have you even met him? How much of a leader do you need to run a family? He isn't organizing the D-Day landing.

[@arabella8395]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 You aren’t a leader either. Saved men don’t antagonise. Your response has absolutely no heart of Christ to understand.

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@arabella8395 Saved men Antagonise all the time> You just don't know any. Jesus antagonised and whipped people out of the Temple and called the Pharasees all kinds of names because they were. Grow up.

[@arabella8395]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 😂 you are so sad to pick on me when other people, also men, agree. You chose me to pick on. What a bully

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@arabella8395 How is telling you the truth being a bully?

[@PatternSon]

This is a good word, Ladies. In my experience, unfortunately, women think that their man will change over time. Sorry Ladies, HE WON'T. Either wait (and that I mean, LEAVE HIM) until he's changed him or move on to somone who already IS. It will save you time and heartache "believing" God will change him over time. God's work that way...

[@ruok9343]

Why isn't she asking God the Heavenly Father this question directly. 🤔

[@sonjapetrovic2809]

Without communication, reciprocity & JESUS at the forefront of a potential marriage, it's a no go!!! 💯

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

And she was guilty of not having any of those in her own self.

[@trevorjennings8483]

Hello

[@sonjapetrovic2809]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 who?

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@sonjapetrovic2809 The woman who asked the original question in the video.

[@ononoemmanuel0]

Great

[@cympimpin20]

I have been the guy in this scenario, and my ex fiance broke up with me almost exactly two years ago over this same issue. It consequently ruined my life and I no longer believe in the idea of a loving God because of it. I'm not going to give advice one way or another, just be aware that your actions are going to have an effect on other people. You get to decide what those actions are and you probably have a pretty good idea whether or not the consequences of those actions will be good or bad for the other person. If you do something, like break off an engagement and cause the other person to lose all hope, you own that. You did that to them. You decided that it was better to cast them off to flounder on their own for your own benefit, and you own the results of that. So go ahead and do whatever you feel is best, but be aware that it's not going to be all sunshine and daisies for all involved parties. When you make the conscious decision to take what was supposed to be a joyful and edifying event in someone's life and instead smash It to pieces and turn it into one of the most miserable, lonely, depressing, and painful experiences that they will carry with them for the rest of their life, you should at least be aware of the wickedness you are perpetrating against them. If you want to tell yourself that it's the right thing to do, that's fine, but just know that somewhere out there there will be someone going through some of the most abject emotional pain a human being can go through, and they're going through it because you did that to them on purpose. And while it may only be a sample size of one, I can personally attest do the fact that the idea of God wanting someone to do that to me oh, and the idea of God being a loving father, are wholly incompatible and I no longer believe in Christianity whatsoever. I don't know if that will happen to the questioner in this scenario, or if it will happen to anyone reading this, but be aware that it is a possibility, and if it does happen, you caused that. Just be aware of that. You can dress it up in all of the flowery language you want, but at the end of the day the facts of the event remain what they are. You deliberately caused some of the most traumatic, cruel, spiteful, coldhearted, and selfish emotional pain one person can do to another, and you did it on purpose, because you believed that doing that to them *might* mean things work out better for you in the end. If you want to do that and then tell yourself after the fact that you were doing what your Loving Father in Heaven wanted you to do, well, whatever helps you sleep better at night I guess. As the guy who was the victim of this sort of act though, I can tell you that the pain you will cause is very real, as is your responsibility and culpability for causing it on purpose. And the amount of replies in this thread cheering on a woman who is about to plunge a dagger into the emotional heart of a man she claimed to love reaffirms a *very* important lesson about Christians I had to learn the hard way. You are all about the flowery language about Love and compassion and forgiveness and patience and all that, when it pleases you and things are easy. When it comes time to put in any real effort, all that goes out the window and you're more than content to do what is best for your own sake in the moment, knowing that all you need to do is tell yourself God forgives you later, and whatever damage you did to another person is their problem now. Look at what we're talking about here. This is a man, that the questioner ostensibly loves, who might very well be on the razors edge of salvation or damnation. I would think a Christian would actually take that seriously and ask themselves constantly "Is what I am doing in relation to this other person going to help or harm their chances of also coming to salvation"? And the answer that so many here clearly think is the right answer is "I should do something that could harm there chances at salvation because that would be better for *me*". Such love. Such Patience. What awe inspiring kindness you're all showing. If you are totally OKAY with knowing that you are the *sole* reason why when another person thinks of "God's will", they will always, for the rest of their life, immediately associate that with the pain you deliberately caused them, that says a lot about you as a person. And it's nothing good. In the year 2051, that person, when they hear "Well Jesus wants...." from a Pastor or a Christian trying to witness to them, in their head they will *immediately* think "Jesus wanted Crystal (or whoever you are) to hurt me like that". And you will be the reason they associate that pain you caused with Jesus. Great job. If you're ok with that, fine. Whatever. Just know that's a possibility, and you will have caused it. So when you're happy and content in a few years with your new guy, maybe your actual future husband, some sunny Sunday morning at church talking about how "God is love", know that there's a life out there that you destroyed, on purpose, and you did it because you thought that "loving" God wanted you to, and that destroyed person will always associate God with that pain because of you. Just keep that in the back of your head. Own up to it.

[@brontek5146]

Hey it was interesting to hear your side of the story and I do really empathise with what you’ve been through. This is a genuine question and I hope it doesn’t come across in a wrong way, do you think you may have been holding this girl on a pedestal far too high, where God should be in your heart? Do you think it’s fair to hold onto resentment for someone else’s choice they made with their free will? Do you think it could do you good to look at the past as a closed door so you can move on? You posed some great points and you’re right, people especially Christians should be so much more conscious of the choices we make, even the words we speak and asking ourselves if we are upholding Gods standards, which is impossible to do all the time, which is why we need to not focus on the bad traits of others, but magnify the good.

[@eduardopeguero8088]

What about vice versa? What if the girl I am talking to isn’t on fire for God? Should that stop me from pursuing her? I understand that the man should be the head of the household and she will be sanctified with time.

[@justinm4497]

the thing is..... i've heard many testimonies from people who, Disobey scripture, and marry Unbelievers, although those unbelievers come to Christ later on, but they are still violating scripture, it's like the command was never given. or believers marrying people of other religions entirely and eventually leading them to Christ, again, great that happens, but it seems like that commandment is ignored.

[@iKeto_gal]

And on another note, don't waste the pretty, ladies. If there isn't a proposal after 2 years, move on as well.

[@lorimast]

It sounds like this person is being pushy, wanting the man to be pushed into her ideas. The man is a new Christian and God will have him grow in His timing not ours.

[@musiclover865]

No!

[@RI.........]

No.

[@potapotapotapotapotapota]

Do not judge a situation before you understand the circumstances. We don't marry someone because of their worthiness. We love someone because we love them. It's that simple. If someone has to earn your love then that is not true love - that is a business relationship. This video and John Piper often does a disservice in explaining the purposes of marriage. Despite what John Piper thinks, sometimes it is better to marry someone despite their lack of marriage worthiness. The greatest example in the Bible supporting this is when God commanded Hosea to marry a prostitute... Most people who ask these kinds of questions are in the relationship for themselves. They wouldn't be willing to put up with the flaws of another person in a marriage because they enter into the marriage expecting things to go well for them, not considering the purpose of sanctifying their partner. They always worry that if they have married the wrong partner then they will regret it. But that is not true. You cannot marry the wrong person. You choose to marry someone because you love them - UNCONDITIONALLY.

[@brontek5146]

YES. I found it hard to listen to this video, and truthfully I didn’t keep listening when I heard John listing every apparent sin that this man whom he knows nothing of depth about, has apparently committed and condemning him. This was sad to listen to. She came for advice and it seemed she just got condemnation towards her boyfriend. Also I’m sure everyone will go through times when we are “spiritually lethargic”, is she extending grace, keeping no record of wrongs as the verse about love in Corinthians instructs? It’s easy to criticise others and see their short comings, but it’s not wise nor Christ like

[@airahmaemerano7483]

😭😭😭

[@belagu4517]

Its either you accept him or he accepts you

[@williamcopeland6683]

Sanctification by sin (choosing less than the best) is still Sanctification.. My beautiful wife of 38 years has been dragged through the proverbial pigs pen in marrying a less than motivated man in the things of the LORD.. but I'm glad she did

[@williamcopeland6683]

@@broco6608 lol.. I dont have a goat in the fight if you're trying to get mine.. I'm grateful beyond words for my wife's authentic love for Christ.. She showed me my hardened heart through her selfless love.. yes I admit the first few years were not her "blessed".. but she was sanctified in them.. and it turned my heart to see Jesus was alive and well and not pushing up daisy's in someone else's grave.. Jesus took up residence in my heart as a testimony of her faith.. hope you get to experience that someday That was over 35 years ago.. we've been together now for 39... thanx for the reply

[@williamcopeland6683]

😁😅😂🤣

[@jassrab7230]

My mother who is 50 now os currently iin a relationahip with her partner now who claims to be Christian and just lost her wife last yr and i believe it was too early fpr him to jump into a relatjonabip aftrr his wifes passing they are engaging already physically i meam sex because of the circumstanvces that they place eAch other, just this week my mom toldy sister that sex is im the bible is made under a covenant yet she does it and i.am deeply hurt and.wonder why she chooses so because.i.thought she did it out of ignorance but i.dont want to judge her it is between.her and the Lord i want to know im not in the position to tell tbis to my mom since.its their relationship but what do u think they should do

[@ebonyessence2838]

Girl jump out the building!!!! 🏃‍♂️ 🏃‍♀️ 🏃‍♂️ 🏃‍♀️ 🏃‍♂️

[@DawidSkrzos]

Why is that people go to pastors for answers and not to God?

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Because they do not like the answers God would give them and pander bears like John Piper will tell them exactly what they want to hear so they can remain in their sin.

[@sofiabravo1994]

@@johnbreitmeier3268 I haven’t heard a pastor that obeys the Holy Spirit telling others to keep in their sins…

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

@@sofiabravo1994 You just heard John Piper do it. He told her to leave the man she wants to marry because he won't let her be the spiritual leader in their relationship. That is sin. Piper does this almost every time he talks to women about their relationships. He is an evil man and not not of God. John Piper and many other pastors neither obey nor know the Holy Spirit.

[@scottcarter1689]

People go to pastors because that's their God-given, biblical role -as authorized by God. That's the point of the biblical mandate for shepherds ("some pastors- some teachers", etc.) And this is in tandem with going to God as well, so the question that you propose... assumes that she isn't going to God (which is omitting what obviously this lady would be doing -otherwise she would not even be questioning the spiritual role of a mate or even her spiritual position within it). Her question is self-authenticating as to her earnestness... And when you're asking God-as well as asking your pastor, shepherd, elder... this is where alignment occurs! This alignment is where truth is found (..."when two or more gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst"... Matt 18). "Alignment" is in the accountability of multiple counsel (that God/Holy Spirit authorizes and)- and that's what the context of this verse is all about. It is not about the misuse and misquotation that it so often has within Christianity (just getting groups of people together willy-nilly -purposelessly) Just "asking God" has the risk of subjectivity along with your own desires.. and inherent confusion. **(Perhaps you were unaware of the assumptions even in your own question... so this is not "scolding" you either) ✝️

[@TheColorofQuantum]

I wonder if there’s any questions about women being sexually lethargic 🤔

[@brumbybailey6599]

Leave. Wrestle for him on your knees, but leave!

[@meaningfullife7866]

What if a woman is a single mum with a small child? Doesn't she have to get a man as soon as she can for the child's sake?

[@vikasdiwakar2348]

U praise God by submitting your life to God ,He is now your husband sister obey to him ,one day he might change by looking at your submission to God as it is said in the word

[@apracity7672]

No

[@zachlightcap2179]

... hmm according to an article in the Watchtower magazine a husband can be won over a to Christian belief according to his wife's conduct. .🤣🤣 but but seriously yeah spiritual lethargy... he should at least be totally responsible!!

[@dannyarendall5233]

No run fast as usual can

[@robertavaughan8236]

Spiritually lethargic? Is that a new term for LUKEWARM???

[@West3720]

If you remain single for the rest of your life does that mean you have to go your entire life without experiencing sex?

[@antonetarezendefonseca5342]

Sex is designed by God to be enjoyed between spouses . Anything outside the covenant of marriage brings hurt and no good. Speaking as someone who experienced both.

[@MetanoiaOfferMastery]

You should consider keeping your boyfriend healthy. Have him do Keto!

[@spencer1854]

This take seems kind of ridiculous

[@qw2ps4]

She's worried about him thinking she's judgemental. Typical mainstream Christianity baloney! Lamestream Christianity (Christianity of today) is so worried about offending. Christ wasn't, if something or someone was wrong He corrected them. If they accepted it or not He wasnt worried about it. John 7 tells us to use righteous judgement when you judge. Real Christians will thank you when you show them their error. Says so in the psalms and other scriptures. If they get offended and stay offended drop them. They're not believers.

[@FollowingJesus129]

Ĺ

[@johnbreitmeier3268]

Pastor Johnana Piper, is as usual the conclusion jumper and feminist manbasher extraordinaire. We don’t have anywhere’s near enough data to answer the question properly. We as usual only have a woman’s whining about the man SHE has chosen who does not live up to HER expectations. We know some things about her but really nothing about the man. She has lousy judgement. She picks an apparently recent convert and expects him to be spiritually mature. She values emotional shows rather than inner growth and morality. She complains that he is not spiritually “vibrant” enough, not that he is doing wrong things or making bad decisions. I take this to mean that he does not use “God language” and run around shouting Hallelujah. She complains that he is “too causual and not reverent enough” about God. This sounds much more like differences in personality type (and gender) than actual unGodliness. She has NO understanding of her role as a Christian woman. She wants to be the spiritual teacher in the family and tell her man what to do. This is NOT submission nor her place. She is the one behaving improperly. What she really wants is a gay-acting heterosexual man with more feminine traits like Pastor Johnana. Neither the woman nor Pastor Johnana understand properly what unequally yolked means. That verse simply means that Christians should not marry non-Christians. Period. Now choosing the best choice you have within that pool of candidates (the tallest, the most spiritually mature, the funniest, the richest, etc) is a luxury you may have, but this woman clearly says she does not have that luxury. There are very few single Christian men in her circle. You can only pick among the men available to you that will put up with you. Either this was the best man she qualified for (or she would be with someone else already) OR she HAS found someone better and is just trying to justify jumping ship. Her real question is “Why are there not more and better men to pick from?” And that is Pastor Johnana’s fault. Effeminate pastors like John Piper drive away real Christian men. They cannot train Christian men and boys HOW to be good men because they are not really men themselves. John Piper failed his own sons. Now he is trying to spread that poison nationwide.

[@tingpan2723]

I agree, Paster Piper gives terrible advice on this case.

[@tingpan2723]

For starters, the girl doesn't seem spiritually mature. She gives her own judgment about her boyfriend being less spiritually vibrant, without any further explanation. We don't really know about her boyfriend. And Pastor Piper is clearly enjoying BEING THE Pastor, giving life advice to someone he doesn't know with so little information.

[@tingpan2723]

​@@broco6608 Lord is the judge, not you. And Lord is the advisor, not Pastor John Piper. Do not worship any man, take their so-called life advice, not even someone who looks like a servant of God.

[@tingpan2723]

@@broco6608 Thanks for proving my point, you want to judge others and without being judged. You worship John Piper, even though you don't think so. But that's Ok, we don't have to debate. If you are so self-convinced, then leave it to God to judge then

[@tingpan2723]

Remember at the beginning I only disagree about John Piper's advice on this case. If you are a real follower of Christ, and not only a follower of John Piper, you will not attack someone by saying "You all sounds devilish"