Destiny 2: 150/140 RPM Hand Cannons Merged, Mountaintop Nerfs - Beyond Light Sandbox Preview

[@Androoo_]

I just hope that if some of these changes aren't great when they arrive bungie will finally start doing mid-season patches instead of letting stuff reign free for so long

[@fhd297]

yea same, i'm tired of something being absolutely broken for a whole season

[@spire1123]

People are saying the script overhaul bungie is doing should help with that I don't know tech stuff but I'm sure someone knows if that's true

[@ready1player31]

@@spire1123 yeah so they can now implement test and roll out patches a lot faster but they will still have to figure out how to re-balance things which can take some time

[@slackstarfish8133]

Well you see, Bungie is gonna use sunsetting as an excuse for balancing. “A weapon is broken? Don’t worry guys. It’ll be sunset in a year.”

[@LoneArtist_]

@@slackstarfish8133 no they arent because take mountaintop for example, its getting a real good rework that i think will be effective, and they are doing this despite it being sunset

[@alexmarshall8187]

Literally just asked myself where was Datto’s video and boom the notification shows up. Wild man.

[@DattoDoesDestiny]

Sorry for the delay, but I usually do a bunch of community reaction research, talk with my friends about their takes on things and combine it all with my thoughts for these kind of videos. If I didn't do any of that, these would go up a little faster. Plus, scripting and sourcing footage can take a little bit too, decided to take it easy in terms of footage for the second half of the video.

[@kaih5247]

Datto take your time. High quality stuff

[@alvaroquintero620]

@@DattoDoesDestiny I feel like you will never be my friend because I have a 2500+ crucible kills on my Mountain Top...

[@undrrscorr4996]

o h m y l o r d

[@KutluMizrak]

@@alvaroquintero620 To be honest, no one should be your friend if that's the case.... jk :D

[@HighLuxlord]

Great thoughts, but I was really distracted at that 4-1 trials comeback after melee'ing a spectral blades three times. That is some on edge shit

[@TheDupus]

On the topic of Fusion rifles, when’s the last time literally anyone has touched a linear fusion rifle? I feel they are in desperate need of a buff. With Grenade Launchers and Swords being just that good, there is no reason to choose a linear fusion. Why waste your heavy slot on something so bad?

[@exactly14ever]

they are the best option to combine with izi if the boss does not take explosive damage.

[@Forcer69]

I use the dawm one here in there in gambit just because why not

[@exactly14ever]

@@Forcer69 line in the sand

[@dustinsterling3248]

I actually forgot they even existed lol, tho I havent played destiny in awhile

[@cryw1092]

Not even rocket launchers are in that bad a position.

[@mediocregamer2484]

I expected a merge but I honestly expected 140s to be merged with 150s, as opposed to the other way around.

[@ioanjordan5122]

They're nerfing hand cannons even harder because Bungie is trying to prove how much they hate skill. Instead of nerfing 150s, they needed to nerf auto rifles and sidearms but their delusions keep them from doinh so

[@Coszmoo]

@@ioanjordan5122 are you dense? Did you not see the huge range buff hand cannons got? 110s are basically becoming sniper hand cannons

[@exactly14ever]

@@Coszmoo you mean 120s

[@Coszmoo]

@@exactly14ever the changes didn’t happen yet so I said 110’s

[@ioanjordan5122]

@@Coszmoo it has nothing to do with range. If you knew anything about hand cannons, especially on console, RPM is all that matters

[@rainman4905]

thank you for doing what you do, we appreciate it! congratulations on getting married as well :)

[@dunbrevur8185]

still think rockets should go back to the d1 2/3 shots per reload since theres no luna boots or rally barricade auto reload

[@jatingola4069]

ambitious assassin

[@FreshNewtype]

I was nodding along, thinking about how this might change my loadouts in the coming year, then noticed 'Nut Master [shotgun] Rikka's Thighs' pop up in the B-roll.

[@YuriG03042]

timestamp required

[@IM4plebz]

@@YuriG03042 7:51 I think

[@vaepsel1939]

@@IM4plebz LMFAOOOO nice catch that is hilarious.

[@Moses.315]

I will going to useing ace of spasce and a Felwinters Lie or a 7 seraph shotgun. 2 sonshot and a god astrall Horizont

[@swinnbv2186]

A pair of gods

[@raisin4568]

Thanks for keeping us updated!

[@MIDA-Multi-Tool]

Looking forward to that rework, chankster? :D

[@banosman2932]

im gonna miss the old lines. *LMG MOUNTED AND READY*

[@joselazo6840]

The more time goes on, the more I’m grateful I didn’t slog my ass through competitive for a not forgotten

[@Sagittarial-A-]

Outside of sunsetting, NF might actually be an option for higher skilled play like before instead of just being in inventory like it is now.

[@trashboat8334]

I grinded nf last week not knowing the nerf 😔😔

[@trinitussancti6448]

@@Sagittarial-A- how so? It’s even worse than it was before. It’s been nerfed twice throughout its life, and both of those nerfs have also lowered it’s rpm.

[@Trocify225]

It actually gave me a reason to play the game in the previous seasons when I played. I was gonna go for the title but I just stopped caring for destiny mid season lol

[@iTz_FLAwL3zZ]

@@Sagittarial-A- I still don’t think it’ll be that bad. With the added range buff they’re giving 140’s if you can land your headshots to get the damage buff I don’t think it’ll be that horrible. Personally I’m probably gonna give Ace a shot and see how it goes. Still have high hopes for Hawkmoon as well, but it really just depends on the rpm that it’ll be and how they end up reworking the perks.

[@miketyson8413]

Am I living under a rock about ruinous being good? I thought it was a fun gun, but not top tier.

[@filthycockatoo2954]

Nope, you are living not living under a rock tbh, the nerf kinda came out of nowhere

[@iCore7Gaming]

same here, no idea why it's getting nerfed, i felt like it was fine.

[@daveb7049]

I’ve seen some suggestions that the interaction with stasis abilities was what they were worried about.

[@blakeerenhouse943]

Nope. Completely out of left field. I’ve heard theories it was for the new raid, but I don’t know why that specifically would be a problem.

[@aki-sid]

It's a great weapon but a big reason not many people use it is because the transmutation orb kills don't generate orbs of light. Now even less of a reason to use it

[@liampitcher5586]

When you want to please the drifter but then you realise that they’ve buffed truth /:

[@Sagittarial-A-]

At the very least, Armaments won't be present to make it worse.

[@nicogunderson9831]

Big facts

[@lt3880]

@Scrota, Sack of Oryx you completely misread the buff. "reserves", as in total ammo capacity, as in ammo not currently loaded into the weapon, etc etc

[@TheLavavortex]

Interested to see how this turns out. Thanks for the quick upload datto

[@imnotyourshadow]

Why would ruineous effigy need a nerf, it was already pretty underwhelming besides being fun

[@RyzzaJ]

Maybe the new content and raid is to easy with it... Which sucks because this exotic was worth the title and didn't destroy PvP... But I'm wondering if this will still be usable and a pleasure to use in pve after patch

[@aimbotarrow5981]

@Bestow5000 It’s definitely meant for Beyond Light as the AOE attack with frozen enemies that come with Stasis actually sounds busted

[@dynestis2875]

@@aimbotarrow5981 so your solution would be to make a weapon that you aquired through a paywall completely useless in any activity? Fuck that.

[@gigan3838]

@@dynestis2875 changes aren't even out yet how do you know it's useless.

[@gilberito635]

AimbotArrow5 but our ability to insta kill enemies that are frozen doesnt sound busted?

[@tinktink360]

Honestly can they just balance the game separately for PvE and PvP at this point? And can we nerf special ammo in PvP?

[@zorak9379]

PvP and PvE are balanced separately.

[@jalen40k45]

@@zorak9379 No, it isn't. For the most part, it's a 1 to 1 conversion from PvP to PvE. As in, when 600 RPMs got buffed in PVP, they also were buffed directly in PVE. If, like, sidearms got a buff from doing 31 dmg to 36 dmg in PvP, then it would go from like 210 dmg to like 240 in PVE (just random numbers). People have been asking for separate balancing for years. That's why stats like recovery, or resilience are trash. It's because for whatever reason, Bungie can't make these rpg-type stats good in PVE without them being broken or becoming too good in PVP. That's why no stat really changes anything in any game mode besides your class ability charge time.

[@Cryhai]

@Scrota, Sack of Oryx this. Honestly I disapprove of having weapon armor mods active in pvp. Anything that boosts base stats of weapons just makes them infinitely harder to balance. Things like flinch resistance, swap speed, target acquisition are all things you can adjust to balance weapons and weapon archetypes. But scavenger mods definitely are the bane of crucible; completely ruins the special ammo economy.

[@Spike_Spiegel__]

I think the primary reason they don't is a technical one. Sounds like something that would require a massive overhaul of the current system they use

[@samuelgregory4876]

sorry you missed it but year 1 already happened if you want no special ammo go play d1 otherwise get over it sorry you can’t outplay a shotgun or sniper

[@SkraevAI]

Tuning weapons to cater to PvP is what ruins the game. Weapons should be tuned separately in pve and pvp.

[@FilthyNingen]

Agreed, but bungie doesn’t see how it’s ruining the game, so we’ll suffer for it.

[@GillmanStudio]

Im quite new to this game so this tuning for PVP is a fresh topic fo rme. You're right, it doesn't really make sense. I don't enjoy PVP myself, like many no doubt, when I do play it as I have to for a quest etc I get my arse handed to me. Which is fine as those guys practiced a lot, got good. So, nerfing their AR a touch, will it change anything? will I now be able to better them? not a chance and at higher skill levels they all have the same weapons anyway. So ... whats the point really? DO people really complain at higher PVP skill levels that the other guys got a weapon they aint got yet and thats unfair?? Its the cheaters that need working on.

[@thespookybanana6007]

@@GillmanStudio Having one weapon type be way better than everything else is the problem. Skill levels have nothing to do with that.

[@rodneypearson1129]

I agree the fact scouts still need to two tap some trash mobs is a problem

[@phaethonprime6427]

Crucible in general is a cancerous drain on the game. Need to have something for the streamers to flex over or they start claiming the game is dead, though, which is then parroted by the 13 year olds who hang on their every word.

[@Forcer69]

Honestly, I’m actually bothered by the 140/150 change. I personally find this change lazy and a bad long term decision. All this kind of does is remove a bit of weapon variety, really wonder if weapons like 180/200 scouts (for example) will get this treatment

[@originaljay2570]

Just watched Cross’, review. Now onto datto

[@rye734]

RIP spare rations, 2019-2020

[@Cryhai]

I think it’ll be fine. Relatively limited recoil really helped it stand out among other HCs

[@cykeok3525]

@@Cryhai It's sunset, and it's now an Adaptive.. I mean, not that I care.. but how is Spare Rations gonna be fine? :D

[@Cryhai]

@@cykeok3525 sure it was well used in Trials/IB etc, but sunsetting won’t stop its usage in base crucible modes. And again, recoil was far more manageable than most HCs. 10 rpm in the big picture really isn’t that much of a difference. It only made a difference because 140s were something to compare it to. SR is not being nerfed into the ground, just letting other weapon types breathe.

[@coomingnotgoing904]

good riddance

[@NO-gh4qp]

@@Cryhai Dire promise can have 97 stability but ok lmao.

[@scottshim679]

6:11 Datto just titan-ed the hell outa that super

[@Cryhai]

Literally the worst spectral blades I’ve ever seen. What kind of SB hunter doesn’t just spam light attack at close range?

[@frostfang7906]

To quote Asher Mir: "I don't need a plan, I'll just headbutt it"

[@frlfrl2098]

scott shim Mike Tyson on this bitch

[@evilsheepling8169]

About the special ammo situation, I managed to get full special for my sniper in several lives across a few pvp matches, so I wonder what even better players can do usually

[@iCore7Gaming]

with scavanger mods i get plenty of special ammo and never seem to run out in crucible lmao

[@evilsheepling8169]

@@iCore7Gaming ye that’s what I mean, I only use one scav perk and I’m not great overall honestly but it’s just so easy so build up ammo and spawn kill them over and over

[@sebastianturner2458]

I run zero scav perks and I'm fine, so I wouldn't even object to them removing scavengers outright. I have to be a little careful with my sniper shots, and sometimes I'm forced to use my primary in a rough situation, but... That seems balanced to me.

[@evilsheepling8169]

@@sebastianturner2458 yeah, except I think they’re ok in pve, since you’re bound to use more ammo in that and sometimes you get cucked by ammo drops

[@sebastianturner2458]

@@evilsheepling8169 Oh yeah, fair. I mostly use witherhoard there and it never runs out of ammo so I kinda forgot that entirely.

[@Exonoz]

Can't wait to get killed by the Astral shotgun with even more range (Sarcasm)

[@unknown872]

I don’t think most people will give up their Icarus grip mod especially with stasis coming.

[@frlfrl2098]

Exonoz Hopefully it doesn't outrange a Good Bine Structure

[@IM_Arcades]

Scouts and Fusions changes, or lack of changes annoy me so much. I wish Bungie readjust how they see those weapons because they are not used to any degree because you can do better with everything else that isn't a Lightweight Pulse (that has also been COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN).

[@cameroncullen7632]

Can’t believe they said scouts have a good ttk but they left us with a auto with a 0.4 ttk at all ranges a scout damage buff is needed

[@sebastianturner2458]

@@cameroncullen7632 Wait which auto is that?

[@Inditorias]

For the adept weapon shaders I really wish they had been an ornament instead, mainly since I'm not a fan of the adept shader.

[@thepeps101]

Probably just gonna be the standard color of the guns instead of slottable shaders. So you can probably just switch shaders.

[@Rydoge7]

I came for the THOUGHTS!!!!

[@brycephipps516]

In regards to the sniper aim assist chance, I had thoughts along the same lines in PvP but I think that the high zoom snipers might find a place in gambit due to the larger maps, particularly if one likes to invade or play sentry.

[@sebastianturner2458]

Oh, fair point actually!

[@e_brophy6575]

I love sunshot and ace of spades so I’m glad they finally addressed the rpm problem with hcs

[@suntzu6081]

bro sams i love sunshot but it feels weird in pvp cuz its aim assist stat is low

[@suntzu6081]

same**

[@zipper125snowputty]

6:07 Hold up a sec, did you just casually melee a guy in his spectral blades 3 times?!

[@JustShuaYT]

Yep🤣

[@duffyhasswag6453]

I couldn’t believe it

[@pandareemy]

Proves just how shitty hunter supers are

[@frlfrl2098]

Kareem Falber You're actually delusional

[@landonconklin4779]

@@pandareemy It wasn't the super, it's just the guy using the spectral blades sucked

[@gunkid6368]

i have never liked how crucible so deeply impacts pve with sand box changes

[@nothingboi9060]

Fr tho

[@dustinsterling3248]

^THIS THIS THIS

[@gurimisenpai2358]

Pretty sure these affect PvP only, besides Falling Guillotine, that one is on y'all's that abused the shit out of it.

[@gunkid6368]

@@gurimisenpai2358 did you even watch the video?

[@elhomo6406]

We were strong enough as is in pve so I'd personally welcome guardians getting knocked down a touch

[@HAitchhhh]

Coming back to watch this and hearing that moving 110 to 120 rpm and 150 to 140 rpm so hand cannons won’t dominate aged like milk

[@generalkenobidaily4642]

Goodbye, my Not Forgotten, you will be missed.

[@quentinb734]

😭😭 we worked our asses off for it too

[@MIDA-Multi-Tool]

Where's it going? You can still use it in everything but trials and iron banner. I'm certainly going to. Love that thing.

[@mrcawfee.]

@@MIDA-Multi-Tool not going anywhere it’s going to be a 140 RPM

[@SRTChrisS1]

@@MIDA-Multi-Tool He meant that Not Forgotten and Lunas Howl will also be a 140 starting next season

[@SunderingLoki]

Dude it’s not going to be bad. Its still gonna have the 2 head 1 body aspect. But if your talking about it being retired yeah that sucks

[@dkcholo5281]

thanks for splitting the video into patch notes and changes, saves a lot of time if you read the notes or saw some other persons videos

[@Spike2276]

When i first saw the twab i thought "guess Datto's gonna have to make that follow up video he talked about"

[@gamelaboratory1246]

Datto: post video Me: alright I got my notes

[@elliekerstiens1916]

it feels really weird to not get a whole new pve weapon meta going into a fall expansion. gonna be using whisper xeno swords for another year yay

[@BirdMoose]

Love the removal of lightweight handcannons. Spare rations and its carbon copy dire promise have been top tier since... well always. Sad to see no fusion or linear fusion pve buffs, whens the last time we used them in PVE? Hopefully multi-rocket mags are introduced as an archetype or perk on new rockets.

[@Resolute.j]

I’m probably in the minority that appreciates the moving of 150 rpm hand cannons to 140 rpm hand cannons. I hope this makes every other primary weapon be able to compete in the crucible as I would like to use other primaries.

[@connaredgerly1132]

I’m guessing you play on pc tho, on console the only way to deal with the extreme auto meta is if you are good with a 150, so I autos stay as strong as they are right now in the next expansion 140 will have no chance in the sandbox

[@Resolute.j]

@@connaredgerly1132 That is correct, I am on PC. Hmm, even with the upcoming changes on 600 rpm autos, will something like a pulse rifle be unable to compete, much less a 140 RPM HC?

[@drakusmero104]

I'm here because I wanted to see why 150s were changed. Their stats definitely should've been tweaked. All "150s" in the current sandbox can't compare to other HC's in a meta that doesn't help HC's

[@tinyturtle1898]

I am am going to love using my godroll Night Watches

[@bugg6597]

The decreased travel time on mountain too might end up being a slight buff if you playstyle involves a cleanup with another weapon. Once people get clipped by mountaintop, they instinctively flee. However, the slower travel time would mean that a few extra frames of weapon swap time can take place before mountaintop hits, which will translate to a few more frames of shooting the person before their instinct to flee goes anywhere. Using mountaintop myself, getting a weapon cleanup after a long range mountaintop clip was a lot easier than a close range clip because I had more time to switch weapons before the projectile hit, thus a little more time to shoot them with my second weapon before their flee reaction got them anywhere.

[@Sohelanthropus]

The changes were underwhelming for those that were intended to be as a buff The nerfs were lacking and needed more Overall a disappointing sandbox we're about to jump into

[@exactly14ever]

they never release the full sandbox this early... plus this was clearly focused to be a pvp sandbox twab, besides the rocket change.

[@Saturos12]

The two (primary gun) outliers in the current PvP meta are 150 HCs and 600 ARs. Bungie is nerfing them both bringing them more in line with other weapons. Why do you think it's going to be a disappointing sandbox if that's the case? Genuinely curious. Because to me it sounds like I'm not being forced to use one of those weapons anymore and I can start looking at other guns/archetypes

[@Saturos12]

Also, I'm only talking about PvP. If you're talking that overall as in PvE as well then I can completely understand it being a somewhat disappointing sandbox adjustment.

[@Sohelanthropus]

@@Saturos12 I expected more buffs to more underperforming things and more nerfs to cheesy things that's it

[@Saturos12]

@@Sohelanthropus I can understand that. To be honest I think Bungie has been really trying to figure out this AR, HC, and pulse rifle meta. And with them essentially balancing those and I think in the future they will start bringing up scouts, side arms, and SubMGs more. Unfortunately yes they are being a little slow but Bungie does have a notorious history of buffing/nerfing stuff WAY too much so I think this fine tuning method is them actually learning from their mistakes. Every year they seem to play 52 card pick up with their sandbox changes lol

[@noahmcgriff6027]

I personally like the feel of 140's over 150's so I'm excited. But i cant wait to try out 120's and see if they are usable.

[@rhett6038]

So your telling me my Not Forgotten was a 180 nerfed to a 150 and then was merged to a 140. I've been crying ever since the original nerf.

[@mclarenf1lm154]

Same man. Same.

[@SunderingLoki]

The original NF ruined quick play. 0.6 or whatever ttk its busted and you know it

[@CollinsHD]

tbh 140's have always been my preferred tempo so I am pretty happy for these changes

[@sakurawind6375]

AA on lower zoom snipers Me: there are snipers with low zoom? No such thing as low zoom on Destiny 2.

[@swoopyhead3699]

For anyone interested in how ttk's have changed. 120's will have a 1.0 second ttk, 140s hit 0.87s ttk, and 600 autos are now 0.80s ttk (0.70s busted before). NOTE: 720's now have fastest ttk for autos (0.77s)

[@Thanatos6669]

my problem with most of these changes is that they are all way more tuned to pvp and like Bungie has given up on caring about pve players

[@optical9359]

It’s called removing what most people feel are the most satisfying hand cannon(150s) This makes the Fast pace play style not so fast pace

[@YuriG03042]

10rpm is barely noticeable lol

[@v0id19]

I couldn't have been the only one reading the TWAB and thinking "yeah, cool, but what about PvE?"

[@powerpenguin7546]

Hey datto I just wanna say your vids are so great and all that you have been through you are so amazing and everyone that watches should definitely sub!

[@pudda_7969]

9:10 any other love chunibyo fans notice that guy's name?

[@frlfrl2098]

Im4Sonic?

[@markusarrington8538]

We gotta keep in mind that this is just an early preview of sandbox changes and we could potentially see more at the release of Beyond Light. I still hold out hope for the possibility of fusion rifles getting the love they deserve.

[@noahfoley5576]

I just found out what 24:02 meant and dude I'm so sorry

[@wundrkind_]

lmao

[@VallornDeathblade]

It's ok, the next raid race will be 24:01.

[@noahfoley5576]

@@VallornDeathblade Could you imagine

[@VallornDeathblade]

@@noahfoley5576 The level of existential pain would be astronomical.

[@noahfoley5576]

@@VallornDeathblade If that happened to me twice I think I would cry

[@Real28]

I think if they merged 140s into 150s, then you'd never be able to make 120s or 180s be as good as 150s. They're literally in the perfect ROF for this game.

[@gervasiocampana6217]

Fusion Rifles aren't the best in PvE but in PvP they're pretty good, so I think they're hesitant to buff them as it might make them dominate in Crucible.

[@cameroncullen7632]

Fusions like bastion and erentil are good but the other should be looked at and there consistency need to be looked at

[@cedricviera3797]

They would be fine if they were projectiles but their hitscan so they map

[@optical9359]

Guy without thumbs sitting in the back with a pulse: gets out gunned by hand cannon at close range* Guy without thumbs: “that shits op, nerf it” Bungo: sure

[@Mythraen]

Ah, so that's what increasing their range is? Damn, I thought that was a buff. Oh well, thanks for letting me know.

[@saren7283]

Another season of Auto's bois

[@MarkJolley]

Welcome back Ace of Spades!

[@Skkeem]

Who else liked seeing the crouch spamming kid get slapped🤣

[@jeremyvbk67]

I love it. Bungie needs to seriously get rid of that, R6 siege did something similar iirc. And I say people using macros to crouch spam should be banned, and in general just make it either force slow the crouch and increase the accuracy when spamming the crouch. It needs to be fixed

[@HeIsPilot]

@@jeremyvbk67 but like destiny ain’t competitive

[@chickenjimmy6552]

@@HeIsPilot True, destiny pvp is for fun. People spamming crouch are the ones making it over-competitive and sucking out the fun.

[@rodneypearson1129]

My thoughts on ruinous energy nerf is probably the same thought process with nerfs before shadow keep. Something in the raid or new activities showed that it is going to be good/potent to a point. Specially thinking about statis can see it being good

[@Kronk994]

*mountaintop gets nerfed* Truthteller: YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!! >:D

[@ballom101]

See, I'm fine with dying to Truthteller. Cause it requires a little bit of brainpower to get those shots right. Mountaintop, just didn't care. It was more braindead than coma patient.

[@akatoshmorgul9367]

Even with nerfs mountaintop is better

[@snakester79]

is there something they can do with mountaintop and swap speed? It might deter people from pulling it out, but then again I wouldn’t know if the swap speed effects swaping to secondary. Please correct me if I’m talking rubbish.

[@Zion_-MAR-]

Rockets should definitely have the same ammo capacity as the Grenade Launchers.

[@YuriG03042]

what would be the point if they can only have 1 rocket at a time and take forever to reload? you wouldn't be able to use most of it against bosses anyway

[@conjonsilver_]

No make rockets do more per shot lower mag but still 2 in the mag. GL have 5/6 less damage per shot but can shoot more before reloading

[@unovaangst9262]

Can’t wait to get my +3 impact masterwork bonus on adept trials weapons

[@sebastianturner2458]

Half of me hopes that they would do that. Half of me fears it.

[@mattj500]

Really hate that 600 autos might be exactly the same but yet handcannons will be even worse now. Great.

[@cameroncullen7632]

It’s a joke im sick of autos should of nerfed them more

[@sebastianturner2458]

I mean, 600s will have a lower ttk now (0.8 instead of 0.7 I believe, 7 head 2 body? 8 head 1 body? Something like that, it was 8 shots before and now its 9 if the math I've seen is right), and hand cannons will have boosted range. Sucks for people who liked 150s, sure, but personally I always liked 140s better anyways.

[@mattj500]

@@sebastianturner2458 from what I've seen bungie didnt specify. So it's either .7 but less forgiving, or its .8 but still forgiving. Hopefully its .8 but I doubt it.

[@sebastianturner2458]

@@mattj500 I checked, general consensus seems to be 23 headshot damage, I believe, which lines up to be 7 head 2 body I think. Still fairly forgiving, but one more shot needed.

[@ylab84]

Question is what recoil animation will the new 140 group have, the terrible old 140 one or the manageable 150 one (at least on console).

[@larsaugust1469]

Time to break out the Ace again boys!

[@warmanreaper]

Yea.. Not until I see them revert the momento mori range nerf lmfao

[@BlakeRocks52]

Nothing was crispier than the old midnight coup... RIP

[@root_-we7wt]

Who better to trust about d2 weapons than the great Datto himself?

[@avilealdri]

So are 150 stats going to get buffed? When they change? Because right now if we compare both. 140s normally have way more range. So kind of makes it sound like all the current 140s will be better than the 150s once they change.

[@FerdinandvonAegir]

"Hope you're ready for some medium octane, generic PvP stream footage." Never change, Datto.

[@seanoconnor3164]

how much does a +3 adept stat help overall? I'm sure it's ok but is it something you should strive for?

[@skilledwarman]

Bungie: introduces sunetting also bungie: still nerfs weapons getting sunset

[@eliwixson8863]

sunsetting literally does nothing in quickplay and most PvE

[@skilledwarman]

@@eliwixson8863 which brings us back to the all important question: "What is the fucking point?" Also, "most pve" except for new strikes, nightfalls, heroics, new story missions, and anything else thats power goes up with each expansion. But sure, old patrol zones will be a breeze...

[@eliwixson8863]

​@@skilledwarman "It matters in high end content, it doesn't matter in average content. Gee, I wonder what the point could possibly be. Find me some kinda smart brained learned man to help me assemble this complex thought puzzle."

[@skilledwarman]

@@eliwixson8863 as someone who is currently 1078, i dont like having guns i spent significant amounts of time grinding for and having to olay game types im not even a huge fan of just to have them expire after a year only to be told "well you can still use them in the bottom of the barrel content"

[@supr3m3panda]

While part of me is surprised they didn't say anything about subclasses, primarily a nerf to Spectral Blades, a different part of me thinks they won't touch existing subclasses for this sandbox change because that would mean people will play with things other than Stasis.

[@일주일-o6p]

last word: this is my time

[@talhahqureshi1222]

RIP Ruinous, glad I used it knowing how top tier it was

[@kano101435]

I used it with karnsteins. Hope it's still usable.

[@mitchellsnaw7263]

Point of view from a PvE player that's awful at PvP: -unique weapons that have above average stats -unique mods exclusive to people who don't lose *7* matches in a row in a competitive environment -raids being unmentioned in response to pinnacle PvP content I'm a very sad boi.

[@GroizardBros]

600rpm Autos will still be the most dominant. The damage nerf (depending on rounding) will only push the optimal time to kill to 0.8 seconds from its current 0.7. They will be less forgiving when missing shots, but they will still have the highest base ttk.

[@warv6552]

720s are 0.77

[@GroizardBros]

@@warv6552 Yeah but they're nowhere near as forgiving as 600s. I'd rather take that .3 slower ttk but have the extra range, stability, aim assist, and less bloom on Gnawing, summoner, suros or forward path

[@alexs_toy_barn]

wait wft Datto got married??!! first: congrats and second: when???!!! why didnt i hear about it??!!

[@dknives3906]

Who the hell are you? Why would you be notified?

[@alexs_toy_barn]

@@dknives3906 i mean, was there a video on it like what mtashed had with his wedding?

[@rodneypearson1129]

I get ppl want to know what's up with their favorite youtubers but leave them some shred of privacy

[@alexs_toy_barn]

@@rodneypearson1129 guys i was clearly kidding, his business is his business and i was commenting on how i totally missed this major life development that destiny youtubers like mtashed or Jez normally make a big deal out of and what people to know about

[@graysonmullikin5750]

@@alexs_toy_barn obviously you weren’t kidding

[@BronzeDragon0009]

Woo my favorite weapons in both primary and special (Scouts and Fusions) will never be good. NEAT.

[@invalue824]

Remember that instead of balancing or changing HC’s they would prefer to just remove 150’s which is the best archetype of HC’s but keep mountaintop and revoker where they are BUT balance and change them around, make sense. Oh but no don’t worry HC’s are getting a range buff so those same HC’s can STILL get slapped and out ttk’d by the same autos and pulses and scouts and snipers that are still in the game, again makes perfect sense thank you so much bungie.

[@mizranozahara968]

My problem with Scout Rifle balancing, is because the lanes you would use one in is easier contested with a sniper, than a scout. The instances where it is better to have a scout rifle over having an Auto or Hand Cannon with a sniper rifle is extremely limited, and even then it really is significantly easier to use Beloved or low zoom snipers to contest aforementioned lanes. I also really don't get bungo's obsession with high zoom snipers given the fact that a huge chunk of the game is CQB.

[@qibcentricsplayground2043]

'yet more hand cannon dominated crucible metas" *600rpm Gnawing Hunger laughs maniacally in a distance*

[@iCore7Gaming]

did you not hear? they got nerfed.

[@qibcentricsplayground2043]

@@iCore7Gaming ain't much of a diff if you ask me like it's just decreased by 1.5/bullet or 1.25 i forgot

[@dariansparks2458]

was just thinking I wanted Datto to talk about the twab

[@lupticyt5016]

Thank god they got rid of 150 rpm. I loved old d1 140 rpm pvp,

[@ioanjordan5122]

Don't be delusional, 150s were the best hand cannons in the game

[@hforheavenly]

while i agree, we're still in a triple headshot per kill meta, so we'll see how it goes

[@edragyz8596]

10 rpm is a .08 second advantage, and yes it DOES matter.

[@Inditorias]

I personally just want faster ADS on scouts, I have to have snapshot on mine for me just because I want to feel snappier. Maybe even a 25% faster ADS would be really nice.

[@Cryhai]

It’s a long distance weapon, designed for locking down lanes. If you’re playing like that, snapshot isn’t required. But if you mean in pve, higher damage against adds (esp precision damage) should have been in the sandbox update.

[@Inditorias]

@@Cryhai yeah I mean pve, I barely can get a kill in pvp.

[@Cryhai]

@@Inditorias yeah, faster ADS speed would be nice. It should to be a long range option with better handling than snipers but probably less than bows. But still, it takes far too many shots to kill in pve. Currently not a lot of reasons to run legendary or even exotic scouts. Symmetry is fun but not very competitive imo. Skyburner’s is also fun but Cabal aren’t really a focus next season. Polaris Lance is alright but its perk is annoying to proc and cumbersome to use. And both MIDA and JR are pvp oriented. I appreciate better aim assist, but sadly it does nothing for their pve viability.

[@Jistafford]

As much as I love running around with enough special ammo to use Eriana's Vow as a primary it'd be nice to at least see them try to bring back the old special ammo crate system for a bit and see how that goes.

[@Timeforspas12]

The chances to 140/150 rpm are another case of "Fixing something that did not needed fixing" thing. I don't like it one bit. Also Bungie: LET'S NERF RUINNOUS EFFIGY BECAUSE WHY THE HELL NOT?

[@colinwilliams3459]

Your joking right. 150s needed a nerf desperately. 140s never stood a chance

[@Iosifavich]

This isn't a case of "fixing something that did not need fixing", They needed to fix the 140/150 situation, they could have gone all 150 but hen they likely would have had to nerf 150's anyways. By making them all 140's they solve 2 problems at once. The Ruinnous nerf was 100% expected, the orbs are powerful, plentful and useful.

[@Timeforspas12]

@@colinwilliams3459 And obliterating it was an option? Delusion my friends.

[@Timeforspas12]

@Scrota, Sack of Oryx Then why didn't Bungie nerfed it? Why KILL AN ENTIRE ARCHETYPE? It's literally lazy work from the balance team. SIMPLE AS THAT.

[@colinwilliams3459]

@@Timeforspas12 maybe, but how would they balance it? I could see maybe a range or handling buff to 140s could help but 150s naturally have a better ttk. Completely removing 150s from the game was a little surprising but i don’t know what they would have done

[@VallornDeathblade]

My poor baby Malfeasance finally got a buff, even if it's just a +37% magazine size it's still something!

[@kano101435]

Considering 150 got pulled back to 140. Malfeasance is actually going to be viable .

[@theadamwarlockkcm1150]

How many times will they nerf my NF...

[@ioanjordan5122]

Bungie hates skill I'm afraid. They're so scared of a hand cannon meta because the majority, who are auto rifle kids, can't handle it

[@soplindoplin9037]

@@ioanjordan5122 autos on console are the plague of my existence they take no skill I just want to use my hand cannon and not get melted

[@ioanjordan5122]

@@soplindoplin9037 finally, someone with good fucking sense. I want to be able to use my Luna's in survival without lasered by a SUROS regime from across the map

[@warv6552]

@@ioanjordan5122 *Implying that Luna’s takes skill lmao. Gun has zero recoil or bloom, is the only 150 handcannon to 2head 1 body yet it takes skill? Get out of here

[@ioanjordan5122]

@@warv6552 it's because it's really hard to get 😐 I earned that gun using poorer guns. I deserve to use it in crucible. Gnawing Hunger outguns it and you get an infinite supply through umbrals

[@HankCarver]

I'm actually fine with the handcannon changes. My concerns are that special weapons are going to be even better than they already are and that 600s are still going to be the best thing you can do.

[@michaelcunningham2111]

And truth still being a monster in gambit with the rocket launcher buff

[@HebuTheLoneWolf]

Bungie, just remove aim assist completely from PC. its not needed and just makes the meta into what gun has the best aim assist. or at least remove the dam bullet magnetism from PC i play other shooters like R6S and after spending time in Destiny my aim has gotten worse and worse thx to bullet magnetism. the game dont punish u from having bad aim since the bullets will still hit even u missed and then u start to spam more bc the game holds ur hand and corrects ur mistakes

[@13576bard]

I feel like the only person who likes fusions and rockets in PvE. They don't have the best damage BUT!! For fusions: no worrying about hitting headshots, better range than shotguns, also much safer, faster reload than shotguns, no struggling with awkward zoom in close quarters. And rockets: if you double up on scavenger perks you get an insane amount of ammo from pickups, almost max reserves. They should probably get a damage buff, but I actually like the one rocket per reload.

[@spyrothedragon091]

They should have just nerfed the range on 150s and buffed it on 140s, it makes a lot more sense and makes them both 2 valuable playstyles

[@gurimisenpai2358]

150s had okay range wdym??

[@justifano7046]

It'd be pretty pointless. You can't force long range engagements. And most engagements already happen in relatively close range already

[@josephrichardson7254]

My only critique I have about the TWAB is that with the introduction of adept weapons in trials I really hope they introduce a PvE equivalent quickly after. Although the purpose is to give a slight edge, and get people to go flawless again instead of farming tokens, any I'm dreading this announcement because in order to get these weapons, you *have* to go into PvP. They might be introduced into nightfalls as variations of other weapons, but with VoG coming back I would like to see raids and dungeons give challenges like Hawthorne's bounties that would give adept weapons and higher level gear instead of just extra gear. Damn that was a spiel.

[@nawafbinhumaid_9181]

Im really surprised that they didn't touch Witherhoard....

[@Cryhai]

I didn’t really think that it was a problem in either pvp or pve. It’s annoying, sure, but far from top tier in terms of exotics that it would be replacing in your loadout.

[@thekylenorton]

Not really related but what chest piece is that? What is the ornament as well?

[@RocketEclipz]

Congrats on getting married! Best wishes to you and your lady!

[@Alacrity01]

I wonder if a better nerf to mountaintop would be to individually tune its ammo economy: Scavenger mods don’t affect it in PvP (only every pick up one) and mountaintop only spawns with one shot (instead of 2).