Destiny 2 - Where has the mystery gone? What Bungie should do with the lore after Final Shape.

[@Jon0387]

I do miss the early days of Destiny where there was a lot of mystery and a key theme was exploration. The game has a teaches a point plot wise where it’s toned down but that’s expected at this point in a story. While I would like more mystery, I would want more conclusions to set up from years ago - the Vex, retaking Torobatl, Xivu Arath and so on.

[@carsonhunt4642]

Isn’t the game coming to an end tho? Why would they make more mystery to never answer, would be lame

[@Pumpkin_4122]

@@carsonhunt4642 The game is not ending from what we know. Just a new beginning.

[@akriusfinch]

Big points of mystery (in my eyes) 1. The Aphelion 2. Vex homeworld 3. The other big areas of earth (ie. Manhatten nuclear zone, etc.) And some others i forget

[@likwid_smoke]

Volantis might be the vex homeworld. It's where clovis found clarity control & the vex if I'm not mistaken.

[@darthengineer1532]

@@likwid_smoke Its not really their "homeworld" more like a massive refinery iirc

[@MadGaffler]

the Nine

[@Seraph2077]

Yeah... The awoken homeworld is also a blind spot, exploring other areas of our earth and perhaps eventually reconquering it sounds cool too, like, after so many losses, it'd be cool to finally push back and not just buy ourselves some time before another world ending event

[@blubbit]

Aphelion are top of my list too

[@notmerricks]

D1 had such an air of mystery. Every time I stepped into a patrol space (notably Cosmodrome and dreadnaught), I always imagined how vast the story of the game was and could’ve been.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

I remember finding two Celebrants of Oryx next to a Rasputin bunker entrance in the cosmodrome before any dlcs had dropped, wondering who Oryx was and why his minions were so much stronger than anything else in the area. I couldn't find anything about them online at the time either so it felt like I was the first to discover them, even though realistically I probably wasn't.

[@ghoulishgoober3122]

​@@xXx_Regulus_xXxit was the first time for you to learn of it, that matters a lot more. A special little moment for you :]

[@MrBusterpalmer]

Too bad Bungie didn’t act on that

[@DTheWhiteWolfD]

Gotta admit I loved when savathun was this big mysterious villain causing havoc to the Sol system with strikes and other entities under her command

[@Lite9-vq9yr]

Yeah and I loved the whole savauthun's song thing. Bungie could've done something with the song during TWQ. Such a missed opportunity.

[@DTheWhiteWolfD]

@@Lite9-vq9yr Yh I was shocked when that didn’t really get mentioned again

[@mrchapin94]

She wasn't that bad

[@garrettviewegh9028]

@@Lite9-vq9yrThey still could utilize Savathun’s song in the next story that involves her. She still lives to spin many yarns of lies in her twisted tapestries of manipulation.

[@centimanj8916]

@@garrettviewegh9028 Right. Savathuns role for this story arc is over. Post final shape, who knows what she could get up too

[@surprizeforyou]

We are nearing the end of a 10 year saga. At this point the mystery needs to be minimized. I'm ready for answers to questions.

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

same. We've had enough mysteries for a lifetime.

[@SALEENS7GTR5]

That's true and I agree, but our world is full of mysteries and things to explore every day and will continue to do so in the future. Destiny's mystery made the world feel more alive and wants to make you discover more, but the recent story develops seemed to focus more on adding new, seemingly unimportant things to answer questions and gave us nothing more past that. The world feels like it's closing in, not because we're getting more answers, but because the world is becoming less interesting and "alive".

[@surprizeforyou]

​@SALEENS7GTR5 its okay for things to end

[@eclipsingshadows5421]

I agree….but we didn’t get any fucking thing revealed lol. So were they really mysteries? Or answers lol? The Pyramids being empty was a huge dagger in my heart. Waited 10 years for the reveal to be…nothing. The Witness being an amalgamation is also a massive cop out. So I get Byf’s sadness and frustration. We should be wrapping things up, but you need something to wrap…to conclude lol. This feels like D&D ending Game of Thrones super fast so they could go work on Star Wars….and then ruined GOT.

[@Gaffroninja]

Strongly disagree. Resolve current mysteries sure, but create new mysteries going forward for what's happening next. Without mystery, it's just not really that interesting.

[@Mr.LightFall]

I definitely think there are still questions to be answered. But at this point, save that for another saga. It’s time for answers and I don’t want confusion or questions in a saga finale. This is not LOST.

[@jacobb5484]

The best way to do it is to answer urgent questions while simultaneously setting up more questions that will either directly tie into the next expansion or don't need an answer but flesh out the world. It's not another Witness we need, but more stuff like the Ahamkara bones and Nezarec's exotics .

[@reothered]

You did miss a few imo: • Who is that unnamed disciple that questioned what the final shape is? • What has Lysander been up to? (We know he sent us gifts recently, but we have no clue to what he's been doing in his absence) • What is the extent of Clovis Bray's reach? ("They know" is the last thing we heard from Clovis, but having been inside of Rasputin is it possible that he retained information on how to make himself another body to inhabit?) • There's that bit of Soteria in Neomuna that we still haven't contacted fully • Are there any precursors who survived that held a different position than the witness? (I forget the names atm but you talked about the three different views in your precursor video recently). •Egregor (or however you spell it) still hasn't been fully explored, Eris and Drifter have been studying it secretly still if I'm not mistaken •Riven posing as Mara to crow is gonna have future implications, was that a last move or was she lying about her last wish? •There's that Stasis planet the drifter visted, and the floating thing in his tank that have unanswered questions. tl;dr Destiny still has a lot of mystery, there's a lot of implications that we don't know the answers to

[@Fitchy-ke3wz]

Lots of your stuff has the potential to be answered in final shape Crow and Riven Precursors Clovis is on the back-burner for a reason I believe. He and the 9 may be a thing to come. Xivu may be that too. Egregore has been explained or it's easy to come to a conclusion. It's a physical manifestation of Darkness being a bonding power.

[@reothered]

You're not wrong about a lot of the topics having the possibility of being explained in the final shape, we'll just have to see how they play it out. One clarification, when I'm talking about Egregore: There's this guardian that falls down by a patch that had been growing out of a dead body, don't remember the specifics too well. But if I'm not wrong it talked about an entire planet full of the stuff, like the Guardian could feel that. So I guess the mystery would be more about the different pockets of Egregore and how they got there in the first place because the network is massive

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@Fitchy-ke3wz Depending on what the red subclass ends up being, I think Egregore might have been a hint towards all 3 darkness powers. It takes nearly-dead things and freezes their minds in that near-death moment (stasis), it links the minds of creatures that it infects (strand), and there's probably some attribute of it that would correspond to the red subclass once we know what it is. That's my spinfoil theory anyway.

[@MothmanGaming]

I still thoroughly believe Clovis was in contact with the Witness at that moment. If not Them, then Xivu Arath.

[@LuigisPikachu]

Bro really thinks there's going to be a red subclass anytime soon, lmao

[@TheMeh115]

Questions like this are exactly why I absolutely PRAY that the Episodes present more questions than they do answers. I want to head into a possible Destiny 3 someday knowing that there’s still something of a threat to head towards. There’s a lot of large cosmic questions that still need to be answered - and killing the Witness won’t suffice.

[@covetingbread5851]

What questions would they present is my question cuz they don’t have that much left to write about

[@TheMeh115]

@@covetingbread5851 I mean there’s a handful of lore questions they already set up with Starcrossed and Warlord’s. We don’t know what Fikrul’s up to, or why the Ishtar logo is where it is. That’s all probably set-up for the episodes themselves, but that doesn’t mean there’s not room to broaden things out based from that.

[@LuigisPikachu]

Byf, a major plotline is about to end. I think putting a hold on mysteries until we get some context relative answers would be pretty great, and a better thing overall

[@igraviks7899]

i feel like nezarec should have been saved for after final shape, or shouldnt have been a disciple altogether as turned into something else

[@Lorentz_Driver]

He was such a let down....

[@ianmcgregor576]

Im firmly on the side of “Lightfall was rushed filler” and think that they completely shoehorned him in to fill a raid boss slot

[@shooterDisease]

This. Disciples like Rhulk and Nezarec should have their own seasons or episodes centered around them as their intro rather than just a one-off raid. Sure they may come back but they stop being mysteries cause we killed them dead the first go around.

[@pugwash1]

It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if during the episodes we get some small subtle teases to something we only hear at thst moment I don’t see this as we’re running out I see it as possibility for more mysteries

[@SALEENS7GTR5]

To me, the main story needs answers like the conclusion to Return of the Jedi. It's the main story and it has a decisive conclusion. But mysteries in Destiny are more akin to background stories in Star Wars like Rogue One or Andor. That's how I see how mystery can fit into D2.

[@lukecreepus6580]

dude I was gonna make a comparison to star wars as well. I feel like this is definitely like the end of the original trilogy, where it will be a satisfying ending to the main plot, but there are technically more things to talk about in the universe so lets go check those out.

[@Lord_Fried]

I think at this point in the saga, questions need to be answered and answered properly.

[@vismortis]

Yeah we need a bunch of answers, I expect there will be some not answers and new things added we won’t hear about for years as the next saga beyond the Witness starts off. Story side and the mystery will wrap and then we will inch back to D1 levels as the next saga builds

[@HoneyDoll894]

yeah, i have some hope but honestly.. I don't really trust bungie to actually answer the questions properly anymore. Final shape just feels too later and too much crammed into a single thing to start answering stuff. Maybe they'll surprise me, but lightfall really needed to be the start of us getting answers and then the seasons were us getting more answers. Instead we got some of the most basic answers the season after lightfall, which just caused even more questions, this time much deeper ones. And now they're stirring the pack again with the collectors edition lore and making me redoubt the answers/hints we got before

[@morcbus123]

I agree with everyone in the comments saying this but: we literally need the exact opposite. We have so, so many dangling threads, things only confirmed or hinted at in real-world collector's edition lore books from recent years, or singular weapon tabs that keep a mystery alive. It is good that they have worked to try and wrap some of them up in recent months/the past year or two, like the whole TAOX = OXA Machine situation (even THIS isn't 100% certain or clear on information), but there are just so many more.

[@crg5]

Bungie has a lore problem. The people who care about it are in the minority, but also most people skip cutscenes. Hopefully episodes will tie up a bunch of the loose ends

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@crg5 I've been of the opinion for years that Destiny either needs novels like Halo, or significantly more lore needs to make it into the game proper. I do not mean as lore tabs. Lore tabs were fine to fill in the gaps in the early days after D1's rough launch, provide tiny glimpses into side characters' stories, or give exotics some backstory. Using them to carry all of the interesting parts and depth of the _main_ story is like leaving a movie on a cliffhanger and writing the conclusion on the bathroom stalls of the theater.

[@crg5]

@@xXx_Regulus_xXx that would be awesome

[@Lorentz_Driver]

We never even went in the Deep Stone Crypt lol we opened it with the Morning Star and never went in.

[@loathbringer]

I think it’s okay for mysteries to be solved. We lived with them for 10 years. We experienced them. They don’t have to last forever. Forever doesn’t make something beautiful. I will say that I think they should have already been front loading a few more mysteries for whatever comes next. Right now we really only have the vex and the 9 left. They have a huge opportunity to introduce new aliens as well (which would have been nice to do a long ass time ago, or at least add new enemy types) I don’t want to fight only hive, fallen, vex, and cabal for 10 more years. Not happening. It would also be nice to leave sol sometime. Perhaps we could visit that horrific cold world that drifter came to. The one that probably lobotomized his ghost and had these creatures of darkness in. One idea I’ve had is a being that survived one of the witnesses genocides against its species. And it spent the last millennia pursuing it and only coming across the graves of other civilizations, absorbing whatever was left into its whole to amass their collective rage. Idk, could be a cool idea, could be a dumb idea.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

seeing as it seems to be a dropped plot thread at the moment, your idea sounds fine. Some kind of master Stasis user, or a weird frigid ecology of creatures that have adapted a way to use it for hunting somehow. if Destiny ever gets a survival mode, a place like that would be excellent for it

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

more mystery seems like a weird thing to ask for at the finale. this is supposed to be when we finally learn everything. there are plenty of small things there won't be enough time to get around to, and if Destiny actually has any life left in it that stuff can come up in the episodes, as well as introducing new stuff.

[@gabrielpineirogarcia2078]

See, It makes sense everything is explained if its the finale of the Game. But they said its the finale of the first Saga. They said theres more story past the de first Saga. If they want ANOTHER saga. They need to lay some breadcrumbs what the Next saga could be about. You can't have the Witness straight Up tell you "the Zorpaloids are coming" and make that the Next saga without any presence in the past before that moment.

[@broderickfoster2107]

@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078you kinda can though. The Final Shape and its episodes wrap up the 10 year story and saga. Next expansion starts and we start learning about some new threat or region we’ve never known and start building from that. Even if it’s finally understanding the Vex, knowing the Sol Divisive are really the only ones we’ve understood to this point and the fact that we know the rest are just waiting means they could be a great new saga threat

[@SALEENS7GTR5]

@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 saw an interesting speculation video that recently released concept art from former Bungie employee Fan Gao was actually art for D3 and then D3 was cancelled around 2019. The events of D2, the introduction of the pyramids, was to set up D3. Then there were unused assets and ideas, so Beyond Light and WQ were made to replace teased locations like Enceladus or Old Chicago. From there, Bungie scrambled to make a coherent story and we got the Witness and Final Shape. Some of this also comes from a reliable leak from 2019 that went on to have several ideas was now see in D2. That concept art was release on April 1, though.

[@garrettviewegh9028]

@@broderickfoster2107There’s still story threads to explore: hunting down the remaining Worm Gods, reclaiming Torobaital from Xivu, Savathun’s future schemes; the fate of Eramis, her mate, and their hatchlings on a ruined Riis, the fate of the Distributary. There’s also the potential for Rasputin or Amanda to come back. We may one day lift the curse on the Dreaming City. There’s the new generation of Ahamakara. Clovis, and Maya Sundaresh could also be trouble.

[@centimanj8916]

@@garrettviewegh9028 The Scorn are developing a Culture divergent of the Witnesses Designs already. Friction between the house of Light and humanity, as well as Caitals cabal and the last city are on the backburner due to our shared enemy, but might resurface when its gone. The Vex remain as an massively powerfull antagonist, only the small sol divisive sect is bound to the Witness after all etc. etc.

[@likwid_smoke]

The nine & the aphelion need to be explained further.

[@aarongreen3300]

I… don’t know if I agree fully. Destiny is really at its end right now as far as we know. There are lot of questions they still need to answer but I think you even said it best in a previous video “now is not the time to be posing more questions, but answering the ones we already have.” The game is nearing its closing chapters, the time for mystery was everything before this. It’s sad, but I think this is exactly what they should be doing. Maybe I’m not fully understanding the concerns being brought up, but I think… this is where we are now. It really, really sucks, but maybe there is no one after The Witness. Maybe this is it?

[@dec3142]

Well there are said to be episodes post final shape so I'm guessing witness is final raid boss then something else

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

The only reason to start up more mysteries would be if this game had another 10 years to go. Maybe even another 5, or like someone else in the comments suggested, move the franchise to a single player RPG. If the franchise is winding down it would be sad for a bunch of new ideas to be teased and never see the payoff.

[@boricuatc4982]

More mystery would be great if D3 was a thing. Your guardian inevitably in order to defeat the witness! And D3 begins with you being resurrected or just a new guardian along side the drifter! Kinda like how halo 4s campaign started, you been asleep for a while and wake up somewhere new

[@quavoking]

There are literally episodes after the Final Shape. There will still be the Vex, Clovis Bray, not all of the Nine are good. There is alot. Learn some of the lore

[@dec3142]

@AcatBehindaScreen I rarely ever watch those live streams/vi docs.

[@MegaManZer088]

My friends are happy about into the light, because there's another friend who hasn't played since vanilla d2 and he's coming back for into the light and the final shape. I already made up my mind that the final shape is my last dlc for destiny, been buying the year content edition since beyond light and this year I'll just buy the base dlc.

[@lazyvoid7107]

Bruh the the dude is gone

[@devist8er117]

I think my biggest upset in recent history regarding the lack of mysteries was lightfall. We all we just stumbled across a pre Golden Age city. That should have an unbelievable wealth of knowledge of the history of Earth before the collapse and it doesn't seem like we got very much of that at all. Of course I know that we already have a good amount of history, for example the Bray tech facilities, But I'm talking more about dates of things and actual recorded history rather than just things that continue to spill over posts collapse.

[@logan09144]

Yeah, we should be seeing some massive ramifications from the discovery of Neomuna. A literal renaissance in culture and information through Cryptarchs being able to recontextualize tons of information. Technological leaps in the Last City. Dare I even mention Quicksilver? Unfortunately, we'll probably never really hear about it or its eternally holographic denizens again.

[@thewilkieway]

I love whenever we get to see Byf's D1 warlock. Looks sick.

[@Catalyst375]

Dataminers. That is where the mystery went.

[@monadoboy9639]

the biggest question i want answered is what is the traveller its that simple we are going inside the traveller WHAT IS IT is it a person controlling it is it an AI is there more than one traveller what is its purpose and what will it do once we have vanquished the witness if that is answered i will be happy also i want to know how Elsie fits into all of this why did the traveller choose her

[@MichaelThomas-q3m]

I guess all of that will be answered in the final shape

[@monadoboy9639]

@@MichaelThomas-q3m I really hope so the precursor lore does give me hope that the Traveller will get lore in the campaign or its own lore book

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

​@@monadoboy9639no offense, but forget that. the Witness has been in there for months presumably slowly killing the person piloting the Traveler or its soul or whatever animating force moves it. If we go in there we'd better see whatever the essence of the Traveler is ON. SCREEN. Blur cinematic or we riot 😂

[@Tyztube21]

One mystery I’m curious about is the origin of the Traveler, where did it come from originally? And given that it was referred to as a machine, who or what created it?

[@GloverGaming3]

Just because the game is in a "good place" doesn't mean that it can't get better. Constructive criticism should always be welcome if people want to continue to grow and learn

[@LuigisPikachu]

The key word being "constructive" Because oh boy, a lot of the criticism around has NOT been constructive

[@GloverGaming3]

@LuigisPikachu 100% agree. Bitching about problems is not the same as constructive criticism. People need to calmly explain their problem and possibly propose a solution of their own if they have one, but the main thing is not to devolve into a screaming maniac

[@Sxraj]

RIP to all the strong guardians we lost on the way to confronting the Witness🙏🏽

[@DrunkenIrishman890]

Personally, I think the mystery of it all is over. The only mystery that we have left to solve is the Vex Homeworld. We, as guardians, are nearing the end of our journey. So it does make sense that we are nearing the end of our journey. Though I would like to see the Manhattan Nuclear Zone. As well as other parts of the US.

[@TheDapperTapper]

We have mysteries around The Aphelion, and The Nine. There's stuff we know and stuff we don't. Then there's the stuff we don't know we don't know.

[@xincnos9657]

while I largely agree, I also think they've made a mistake by sorta rushing through most of our long and short term questions and mysteries the last couple years, I also think a lot of em had pretty unsatisfying answers or conclusions, like siva.

[@raekwonchambers2297]

It doesn’t end at the witness for a short tldr the witness is not the strongest being in our universe not even the 2nd. The witness didn’t cause the collapse either it was something else and it is paracasal unlike the witness so it’s more like the traveller and if you remember during beyond light the pyramid ship wanted us to get stasis but in lightfall nothing was beckoning us to learn this power or take it in fact the witness forces was trying to deny our powers In general so that means the pyramid ship on beyond light and in shadow keep the pyramid ship took a shape n was telling us to use it so it’s two different forces at work here. The witness does not have access to all the pyramid ships

[@crg5]

​@@xincnos9657 Wasn't the endgame of siva neomuna tech and cloud striders?

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@crg5 that was one alternate branch of SIVA that Neomuna developed, but there could still be OG SIVA out in the system somewhere, it all depends on whether Bungie decide to reuse it or not. With Rasputin gone (he was the last entity to have control over SIVA) they could have it go rogue again if they ever want to use it for anything.

[@knightspartan7201]

The problem is retconning destroys all faith in the mysteries. When we get told "the traveler made a sacrifice to push back the darkness". For years we wonder "what could've happened during the collapse?" Then we find out actually the traveler didn't do anything, it was Savathun who somehow tricked The Witness. Then we anticipate the second collapse for almost a decade, and what happens when the Witness finally comes back? Absolutely nothing. Goes through the portal and dips. No devastation. No dark forces sieging the solar system. Just more cabal.

[@Vengeanze]

Don't forget when Savathun lost to us in Witch Queen, she says she didn't see that coming. Season of the witch: Savathun knew she might lose so she created the 15th wish. Like, when? She had to have created the Imbaru Engine after she got her memories back but before we killed her. Literally, the entire Season of the Witch story shows that Bungie is terrible at managing the actual story. Witch Queen was not that long ago!

[@milesjohnson7122]

The WORLD and the STORY having more mystery is two different things. I think the story deff needs answers right now, but the world needs more confusion, fear, and mystery.

[@milesjohnson7122]

Great video btw❤

[@oddkikisdragon1833]

I believe we deserve the answers to the traveler, where is it from originally, what’s its main purpose and all other questions from D1 year 1 till now, but there’s definitely more mistery to explore. What’s up with praedyth and time travel, the vex world/main frame source, alternate universes, the cabal world, taking back the rest of earth and the planets on Sol, etc.etc

[@Anthony-ib6cq]

I really miss the mystique of vanilla D1. I've never felt like my imagination was captured in the same way since the start of D2.

[@SlongestKongest]

I know what you mean but part of that mystery was because bungie didn't even know what anything was lol

[@markricheard1870]

Why make more mysteries immediately when there are still so so many that are unexplored and unanswered right now? ESPECIALLY after Lightfall repeated D1 Vanillas Cardinal Sin in explaining absolutely nothing! Nah I’d rather say *More Answers Please!* There’s endless mystery in Destiny. What it really needs is telling an even slightly semi cohesive story with a proper beginning, middle and end. This really isn’t an issue if Destiny is, and will continue after The Final Shape…. I don’t even really know why this video was even made? Honestly this feels like preemptive criticism for something that may or may not actually become a real problem far down the line. Plus, the perception that “D1 was so much more mysterious and interesting” isn’t necessarily true, even to a detrimental degree. The reason why D1 felt much more mysterious is simply because barely anything was explained or explored. This was a condition of the Staten Cht lore being removed and a new story and Lore being scrapped together very quickly. Basically, D1 relied on mystery boxes with no pre-planned explanation like JJ Abrams. If new mysteries are made any time soon, they need to have its answers planned out in a satisfying way ahead of time. Not everything needs to be definitively explained but empty mysteries with no exploration or plans are unsatisfying to me.

[@crg5]

I want to add that the venn diagrams of the folks that say destiny has no story and the people that skip cutscenes are damn near a circle. The fact the game has as much lore as it does is pretty crazy considering most people don't care and actually get mad that it keeps them from shooting aliens.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

@@crg5 I agree with all of the points you made, but I think after 10 years Destiny has really outgrown lore cards. They were a cool stopgap after the big D1 rewrite, but at some point Bungie either needed to commit to expanded universe novels like Halo did, or actually start getting most of that stuff into the game properly. Scannables were a step in the right direction, but even now all the really good stuff is in the collector's edition.

[@davonbell188]

Question. Do we as guardians technically practice the Sword Logic by participating in crucible? Specifically by killing each other we make ourselves stronger?

[@UltraRisen]

Long Answer: The Sword Logic is a sort of radical form of Darwinism; it's fundamental principle is survival of the fittest. In that sense, any form of fighting is participating in the Sword Logic. With the Crucible specifically, you could look at it in a similar way to how the Osmium siblings would wage war with each other and kill one another, but wouldn't die permanently thanks to their Throne Worlds. They did indeed do this for similar reasons that Guardians compete in the Crucible. Short Answer: Yes.

[@brianacosta421]

ok i have a question what happened to the Phoenix that orxy had taken is it out there or what ???

[@Noblesix84]

There are some smaller stories that I want to see more of. How are The Last City and it's people doing and how are they feeling about all of this? Are we going to learn more about Encelidus from Cayde's last words? How have the Factions faired in the wilds now that they aren't part of the City anymore? Whats going on with Vance, if hes still alive? The big mysteries are still plenty for me but I'm also super curious when it comes to the small stuff.

[@TheXeroLink]

I’m still here because of the story. Your videos have kept me up to date on what is going on and I absolutely adore your content. It’s such a wild thing to sit back and say wow you have been a constant in all of our lives for nearly 10 years…wild. It’s been so wonderful.

[@xstrain10]

It’s funny you say the lore got you to stick around. Cause YOUR what brought me back also back during D1 watching your lore vids is what made me REALLY want to play again and here I am all these years later.

[@jlb4685]

I miss the mystery we had back in the D1 days so bad. I miss your old style videos too like your original books of sorrow videos. To this day those videos for me are your best work. That and your whopping Complete Story of Destiny video. Dynasty was really good too.

[@nicholascazmay2126]

I mean, we really still have no clue what the Traveler really is. Unless we get very definitive answers in Final Shape, its origins are still suspect and I’m still not confident that the Witness is truly its karmic opposite - there is still something else out there. That and the question of the Vex.

[@crg5]

Not trolling or being a jerk, but are you one of those cutscene skippers? The Veil is the Traveler's opposite, not the witness or the precursors. Again not being a jerk, season of the deep main storyline gave us an inkblot cutscene of how the witness came to be.

[@blubbit]

What other guy said, the Witness is pretty much explained and is not the Traveler's opposite, the Veil is. That said, the full nature and origin of both is still unknown and only goes as far back as the Precursors discovering them

[@Lorentz_Driver]

@@crg5 The Traveler still hasn't been explained as to what or how it is

[@nicholascazmay2126]

@@crg5 i guess my point was more that Witness is not really a true opposite in sense that it is diametrically opposed to the traveler - it just has a goal and the Traveler is a means to an end. Yes, I understand that the veil is essentially the “darkness version” of the traveler, but to what end is completely unknown. It has no apparent agency the way that the Traveler does - the witness has agency, but it’s just another pissed off race that got butthurt over the traveler leaving - it hasn’t been there since the beginning the way Unveiling implied (yes I get it was probably just propaganda to f**k with our heads, which is both disappointing and boring). It just feels like there is something still missing, and I’m hoping Unveiling wasn’t entirely bullshit. But who knows anymore.

[@nicholascazmay2126]

@@Lorentz_Driver This - thank you. We know literally nothing about the Traveler. If Unveiling was really just Witness hogwash, we’re effectively back to square one.

[@thewildbeast6063]

I'm on board with byf on most of the talk... but to me what makes me feel unexciting is that the witness somehow somewhere during the last year started to lose that feeling "intimidating" I feel that we are a little bit rushing in too fast to finish the story of this amazing journey... which makes me sad

[@adacskipper]

I think you've hit the nail on the head Byf. We do need more mysteries; not now, or at the final shape, but afterwards. Mysteries are what keep me coming back to Destiny; that and the great gameplay, but the promise, intrigue and secrets are what is so compelling about the Destiny universe. The pattern of setting up a mystery, gradually unraveling it into a great reveal, and then setting up a new mystery in that reveal is an excellent pattern. The setup for Savathun is a great example of this; for so long she was like a boogeyman of the lore, and it made her appearance that much more compelling.

[@z_Darkstar]

I think the biggest thing for me is answering 10yr long questions with TFS but raising new, separate but important questions at the same time. I am happy to be getting answers but I agree with Byf with the “where do we go from here” question. I have always loved mystery in Destiny. The first time I landed on Venus and the first time I entered The Archive were INCREDIBLE moments of wonder for me that stick with me to this day. I understand that that level of mystery is much harder to attain in a universe that’s been present for a decade rather than at its inception but I would absolutely adore lore that leads to that sort of moment again.

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

The good thing is I think we have plenty of places like that left in Destiny's universe. Efrideet has that pacifist colony that she disappeared off to that we've never learned _anything_ about, there's that frozen hell planet Drifter went to, Torobatl, Fundament, the places the Nine have dominion over, the Vex forge-star Volantis, countless Hive war moons, the Eliksni home system, the Distributary, and those are just the places I can remember off the top of my head. Post-TFS would also be a good time to bring cut content that we never got to see into the game in some way.

[@MuhammadAli-qk2fe]

I completely agree with this! One of the biggest allures of the original Destiny to me was the mystery of everything. I spent hours just roaming around on Venus and wondering about the vex, Ishtar collective, the old colonies, etc. Sometimes it's nice to have stuff that isn't fully flushed out. It's one of the reasons why I wish they had never introduced the witness.

[@abyssal_beans]

The best thing Bungie can do to help with the feeling of mystery is to make sure they avoid just making ‘the episode where ALL the mysteries of x/y/z plot point are resolved’ right out of those mysteries taking a back seat the the current narrative focus, while still making sure the mysteries are actually going somewhere.

[@GylleneGott]

My best gaming feat was predicting the red war back in D1. And I guess almost being world first for heroic Oryx was pretty cool too

[@samfroggeh]

Honestly - when I play it's usually just "I shut off my brain and shoot the stuff" - but I'm happy to have more mystery added - as someone else also mentioned - I wanna know more about the Aphelion. All the lore I learn from your videos, so more content where you ask and/or answer questions is always good - though, it's always nice to have more of a clear view of what something is or what it does when it's sat infront of you (i.e. The Veil)

[@Infinityadvanced]

Yes I agree that there should be more mystery within the lore of destiny. I actually think a ton of that mystery resides in the written lore from items. But for me what always captured my attention was how we get to see things in cutscenes but still left with questions to push forward in finding out more. The dialogues we get now in the seasonal content are okay, but never have i felt more intrigued than the cutscenes we got in the vanilla story of both D1 and D2. They both gave a sense of mystery to the world of destiny and gave a sense of gravitas to The Guardian; us.

[@acw_tracks7097]

I'm probably one of the few lore heads who uses the environment to ask little questions, that could matter very little or have an incredibly large impact. For example while running RON or VOTD I always ask myself what inspires the witnesses architecture within the pyramids, is it some sort of represent of its abstract view on existence. I agree with you mostly though on the amount of questions being asked, but on the other side of that coin we still have so many things we don't know, and as an example of that I can pull out the Nine or rivens clutch of eggs that we recently saved. As a long time viewer, and fellow lore nerd and overall speculator, I'd love to just converse with you about all the little ideas that pop into my head when I play destiny, because as you said it inspires, and brings a sense of wonder so regardless of what's known or not I always ask questions. Thank you for your work Byf, and see you starside!

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

I love going through concept art on artstation for the same reason

[@acw_tracks7097]

@@xXx_Regulus_xXx I love the old concept art! One that has always stood out to me is the exodus black with the Siva logo on it!

[@savagedrew]

I agree with you, I want more story and mystery. I play this game for the story and triumphs, just completing every in the game really. Been at it since D1 beta. I think you covered everything from the Vex to the Nine. One thing I would like to see though is a more in depth dive into the Dregens and the dark/evil guardians. I think that can be done now , seeing how they incorporated the lucent hive, we could have a scenario where we’re doing an activity and run across a Dregen to fight. I would however like to see Bungie go down a bit of a darker path in the story and mysteries. I remember doing that mission for the drifter and at the end seeing the shadow of the guardian on the rock from being hit with a golden gun , then hearing the radio message. I thought that was so dark and awesome. Really hyped me up.

[@koreysquared]

honestly my top wanted storyline for post final shape is the retaking of earth. the lore we got on the new skateboard made me really curious what the concordat have been up to.

[@elimgarak1617]

Completely agree - I've had the same feeling and thought for a while now. In fact, I was a bit disappointed that all the guesses about Elsie Bray that we've had for years have been confirmed. Answering that was equivalent to closing a whole chapter of the notebook full of questions, and I don't think we got many other mysteries in return for that (unless I am forgetting something). Sure, there were some interesting things we learned about other timelines (e.g. Drifter's final fate - I think he turned himself into an Exo) but those were other timelines to which we have no connection and which we will likely not encounter in the future.

[@Gaffroninja]

One thing I've noticed, is that as we're getting a bunch of answers and learning more fundamentals to each faucet of the story, the Universe of Destiny feels awfully awfully small. Which, makes sense but doesn't really feel good in regards to the scale of the final shape, what it entails and what is there next.

[@Khqra]

It's been 10 years. It's about fkn time we get "answers" to the bs in this awful "story"

[@Gaffroninja]

@@Khqra I'm not saying keep things that we want to know a mystery, I'm meaning creating new mysteries

[@firenzarfrenzy4985]

Not only are we reaching the part of the narrative that I’d liken to ‘the bumping crunch’ ie. where things come to a close and loose ends get tied, but also there’s SO much existing lore in the game it could sustain me for ages. The same way a new season may not seem like much content to an active player, someone who is less so may have the expansion’s campaign, former seasons, exotic missions, dungeons and raids to catch up to. I am so far only fully read up on the central narrative. I’ve never read Inspiral, Marasenna, Truth to Power. I’ve never seen the books of sorrow This is where the lore is condensed. I haven’t even begun to really consolidate the various lore found in exotics, guns and their flavour text, geographical details and so on. It’s so much sometimes I rediscover things like the Sunbreaker Titan order, the relationship between Eriana and Wei Ning, stuff about city factions (just look at the skimmer. So many people won’t even know the importance of the concordat) So for most people, there’s plenty to sustain us. Keep in mind you’ve been helping us explore lore since the very beginning. It is GOING to feel like there’s no more mystery because every story, bit of evidence, and even speculative thought has been examined by you and your peers on the most massive figurative caulk board I will ever dream of. You know what links to what, when, why, and how. And the only things that aren’t on the board are the frayed ends of a rope that connects a current story that has an open end to a story yet to be written as it’s still being devised by the devs as they decide how to drop everyone the next big puzzle piece or segment of said story.

[@liquidrufus]

This seasons story definitely laid the groundwork for post FS storylines, with the mystery of what will become of Rivens eggs? Big standout from just this seasons story alone. Plenty of things very much infront of us asking where does this go? Xivu, Clovis, the Vex are still enigmatic, etc. There's oodles of unknowns. There have been plety of decent answers, and in the case of WQ amazing ones. With FS it's different from answering just questions. They have to stick the landing, endings are hard to get right. I hope they've nailed it.

[@slipipipi7971]

Warframe is a good example of how to keep the mystery intact even when somethings explained

[@arryn786]

Respectfully no, warframes mystery comes from the fact it’s story is barely coherent 💀 even as a long time hateplayer of d2 I wouldn’t compare the two as destiny’s one makes sense but has just become crap and rushed

[@loathbringer]

Warframe is literally the most alien universe I’ve ever come across, and there are zero confirmed aliens in it. Quite an accomplishment

[@GhostRydr1172]

Retcons even there have helped. Getting back to WF and goddam that lore is mesmerizing. As for Destiny...man, for all we know, we're at the end. What's the point of further mysteries when we're now supposed to be getting answers to decade old questions?

[@THERATSANDTHERATS]

Thats because warframe lore is psychotic and is willing to just pose questions, I mean ALL of the new lore around Dante is intresting and offers some great questions about Warframes being alive, the Leverian, Albrecht, and Orokin society and the general feelings towards warframes and what it was like to be around such a thing when you know what it is And Dante from a lore perspective is insanely unique like I mentioned, Dante was ALIVE, a Warframe who was a scholar first and Warframe second, even explained as a Friend towards Albrecht and a genius historian to the point of making such good papers and documents and books that Orokin Scholars were jealous and annoyed that what is effectively a corspe is out writing them and also that was around for a long long long time and managed to get back into the lab after Albrecht left and Loid went to sleep and was KILLED down there, theres also the INSANE part that Dante speaks Void tounge when casting abilities and DE has shown they will make full on alphabets and languages for speices so I imagine we will at some point learn more about Void tounge and maybe be able to translate it

[@SpaghettiTop]

Facts

[@ILUVsSUNDROP]

There’s still a ton of mysteries in D2 and with the understanding of the Witness’s origin there are a ton more yet to be written. We’re just point of where asking more questions would impact the pacing of the story

[@kylekrausbauer]

Byf, you're my hero just for adding a Dune reference. Dune was star wars before their was Star Wars. Not only that, but like, space messiah, ya know? Anyways, thank you.

[@jasonhernandez9023]

@6:40 And then we got Season of the Splicer, my personal favorite, where the Legendary Saint-14 and equally Legendary Mithrax were backed into a corner by a bunch of red bars only to be "saved" by Ikora's team-killing Nova Bomb.

[@EmergencyChrispatcher]

I’d love for Bungie to Explore: -Skirra, the Watcher, that was mentioned like once at the end of Season of the Splicer -The Aphelion -The Potential Connection between the Hive and Cabal that was briefly mentioned in the Lightfall CE Lore (I Kinda see a Greece/Rome vibe) -The Cult of Nezarec

[@nagoltrawets8311]

wholeheartedly agree with you, don’t get me wrong i’m very high in this franchise as a whole right now but I do really miss that air of mystery that this game used to have for me. i hope the episodes to even the conclusion of final shape open major threads that reintroduce that mystery for me. thanks always for making such incredible videos.

[@j.r.1704]

I think this is the perfect time to make a video like this, The Final Shape can’t possibly wrap up all the stories set up in the lore, and I think that’s important to point out given how expansive the stories in seasons and subsequent lore books have been. The mystery will still be there after the Final Shape is done and I personally think this is a good call. The Final Shape shouldn’t have to wrap up everything it just needs to wrap up the main story

[@TDKR21104]

The way i see it, Destiny 1 vanilla was all mystery. All questions, no answers. And over the years, there has been more answers than additonal questions, and thats ok. We still know very little about the universe outside of the solar system, and bungie can totally tap into that to restore the feeling of overwhelming mystery.

[@MelancholicBodhisattva]

What are the Aphelion? What, actually, is the Black Garden? What happened to the Perfected Raven/ all the old Taken? What happened to all the other Disciples up to this point? Nearly everything about the Ascendant Plane still? Nearly everything about the Vex? In the sense of their origins, their other strongholds in other star systems or in other entire galaxies, etc. Who are our allies that were aiding us through the Eye of Another World Warlock helmet exotic? What are the implications of the Nine, considering their nature being universal? Any other Emissary's? What is Unknown Space? There's endless mystery in Destiny, but telling even a semi cohesive story with a proper conclusion needs focusing in. It's the natural trade off without things falling into a cacophony of confusing detail. This is entirely a non-issue if Destiny does continue on after Final Shape, and I'm confused why this video was even made if I'm being honest, Byf.

[@crg5]

Rent was due, and I mean that with respect. Byf does this for a living. A 20min vid made to get people talking both positive and negative is how to get the YT algorithm popping. In sports terms it's why ESPN talks about the cowboys and LeBron all the time because they see the engagement of it.

[@MelancholicBodhisattva]

@crg5 fair enough, i do respect that it is his job. But it is a subpar video, just through and through.

[@Shakenmike117]

I need Byf to do more impressions of destiny channels because that Aztecross was staggering

[@lukecreepus6580]

I totally get the need for questions and answers. I am sure that during final shape we are gonna get simultaneously a ton of answers to things like the traveler and the witness, but also get a few more questions from outside the universe that we know, because we are hitting the edge of our knowledge. We know nothing in destiny that is not connected to the struggle between light and dark, or at very least very little in general. For me there are some ideas that Id like to see expanded in the future and they are: 1. The remaining Worm gods, we killed the person who imprisoned them, what happens now? 2. Some more legendary figures in destiny's lore (For me specifically I want some more on Shin Malphur, because hunter main here but whatever) 3. The evolution of the Scorn is super interesting to me, and I feel like we already have something coming with one of the episodes so Im excited 4. Also seeing what mischief our little whims get up to would be fun in a future story (Less lore dense, more I like the thread of knowing there will be more ahamkara stories)

[@jmf3lt]

I understand where you’re coming from with this. We are really zeroing in on the Witness and The Final Shape, and it might feel like they are leaving other stories on the back burner. Though at the same time, I think we’ve always l wondered what is going on with many other story threads that don’t have an answer. Story lines from seasons that end with questions and that’s it. We ask for more answers as we move to the next story. But those stories were never our objective like stopping the Witness is. Something we’ve also had so little understanding of. It’s also the feeling of a story coming to an end, one we don’t want to end. Like the Infinity Saga of the MCU. Sure, we still had some questions, but the thing we were all there for years and years was over. Complete.

[@It-is-PhillipFrank]

I'd be interested in learning more about the 9 personally. I've always kinda felt they are moving everything around from the shadows.

[@WGGPapaDom]

I actually disagree. There's already an entire planet's worth of mountains of confusing, overwhelming, and mysterious lore. If Bungie wants to attract and keep new players, maybe they need to give us some more straightforward storytelling instead of making every new plot point a Rubik's Cube that slowly assembles itself over the years.

[@JeffreyMcLain]

I'm glad we had a swell of questions getting answered over the last few years, but I REALLY miss the days when so much of Destiny was a mystery. When it felt like I didn't know what was around the next corner. When the Queen's Wrath (whatever that means) would show up in the Tower to offer us bounties in exchange for weapons, and some tentacle-face sold a rocket launcher with a wolf on it for that currency you get in Nightfalls. It probably won't be that good anyway..... I'm glad that Destiny got a firmer set of feet under it, and I'm glad that over the years the story has been fleshed out and we've known a lot more about the various things that used to just be mysteries. But I miss those times when I didn't know why it's consequential that a Shrine to some guy named Oryx was on the moon, and that it might be a bad thing if it called out to him.....

[@xXx_Regulus_xXx]

the vibe definitely changed as we learned more and more about the world, that's for sure. the trouble with most mysteries is they have to have answers eventually, though. I think if Destiny is actually going to have another "saga" we'll have to leave the system to get that feeling back. It can be done but there's going to be a lot of "I miss X from D2, they need to put it back" posting if they actually commit to that.

[@Wymorick]

Thanks for addressing the doom and gloom as of late in the beginning sir. I am a long time follower of yours and I understand that the sentiment around the near future for D2 isn't good atm, but hearing about it so much recently has impacted my desire to keep playing, maybe that's my fault. Thanks for always trying to provide ideas to make everything the best it can be, and thanks for all the awesome work you and yours put in for all of our enjoyment. o7

[@blubbit]

I also feel beyond having a mystery to pursue, there is a magic to being thrown into the complete unknown. It's why early on a lot of things like the Nine and the Reef had this great attraction to me. They were unknown and different. It's why I hope post-Final Shape we go beyond Sol, maybe starting with Torobatl. The solar system is known well enough, I want to go out into the universe and immerse myself into the unfamiliar. Personally, I think it would be cool if after we defeat the witness, we still have to repair the traveler or something, so we go out into the universe to understand its deeper origin and get new questions as we seek those answers

[@cathedraldarkness]

The mystery died for me post Witch Queen. I’d would to have loved to explore more on Europa, Mars, Venus, Titan. I alway loved the element of urban exploration that D1 had and some of D2. That’s where the mystic was for me. Savathun’s throne world and Neomuna always felt empty. I would have loved to really get into Rhulk’s pyramid or dive into the Veil containment area without some game ending event.

[@ThisIsDLSMade]

Definitely an interesting video to drop, given that when lightfall dropped, you had a huge uproar over new things being added with not enough answers lol. BUT I want assume that you are referring to bits of mystery that can be hinted at while also putting a close to the ones we have had for years, which I agree could be nice. Just don't be surprised if some devs are left scratching their heads over this change of direction from you byf lol.

[@-whiskey-4134]

Nah, the mystery is where my love for lore in D1 and how I found you and Sir Wallen then Myelin later on. Mystery makes the lore so much more appetizing.

[@clappymicslappy4202]

I want to know more on is the Witnesses the Widower? Is the Gardener the Traveler? Are the Aphelion connected some how to the Gardener and Widower?And what happened to Nokris. And what are the other wormgods doing?

[@PercivalBC]

I've been feeling this same sentiment for a while, and I'm unsure if it's just that I've become so familiar with almost every portion of the lore over the years, if it's just the nature of approaching the end of the saga, if its a combination of the two or even if there's more mystery out there than we realize at the moment.

[@Valee_7]

Whilst I enjoy getting answers, I loved the feeling of mystery in D1, it was one of the best parts of it in my opinion.

[@Allie.TRANSCEND]

I absolutely agree that mystery is paramount, I don't agree though with the insinuation that we are at a point where we are running out of it any time soon. There's still so very little we actually know in the grand scheme of everything. And a lot of answers we normally get to things are largely vague, albeit intentionally so.

[@darthbane5676]

Ideally, The Final Shape will answer maybe not all, but at least some of the questions we’ve been holding onto for years now, as the finale of a 10-year journey, but it will also bring up some new and unexpected questions for us to think about, either potentially being answered in future stories or being left as a mystery.

[@Columbo12]

For me I just wanna know how Titan suddenly reappeared at the beginning of Deep. What's the context behind it? Because as far as I know, it wasn't really explained properly. People could make their own answers, by saying that we used the Planet room in the Root of Nightmares raid to bring Titan back, but if that is the case, why didn't we bring the other planets back? Io, and Mercury are still missing, have not been mentioned since the end of Arrivals after the arrival of the pyramid ships taking away the planets.

[@jerrbear5958]

It's crazy to me that when we talk about the mystery in destiny nobody mentions the light and the darkness themselves. What actually are they? Are they some kind of sentient Gods or just forces of nature? Where did they come from? Can they be destroyed or reborn?

[@grimms1916]

Sometimes I feel there's no real pleasing the lore community. This last year, we've been (justifiably) upset that bungie was just refusing to dispell mysteries, refusing to answer big, important questions as we approach the end of the light vs dark story. Bungie seemed to have heard, and started to scramble to answer those questions. Even if some of those answers were somewhat unsatisfying, they've been answered. The stage is complete, it is set for the finale that is coming in lightfall. Why are we now looking for new questions to being asked? Wasnt that one of the biggest complaints about lightfall, that it was a campaign of nothing but questions in the penultimate expansion of the saga? Personally, I do not think this is the time in the slightest to introduce more mysteries. Now is the time to play out the final act to the story we have nearly all the supporting answers to. We know what the witness is, what it wants, how it intends to achive it, its history, what it's goal means for us, and that we need to stop it. That's enough, and the question of what happens next is so broad and open-ended that it could work to serve as a knowledge level reset for the destiny lore as a whole.

[@billbobert]

100% agree. The world feels empty now. I feel that the world having less questions is really obvious when you look at a lore channel’s video list. Back in the day at least 50% of the videos were something obscure that the average player didn’t know about. But know it’s hard to find a lore video that makes me even ask any questions. They all seem to give answers

[@SlimeyZockt]

I feel ya. When the exotic missions came back I was happy, but sad that they actually mentioned that stuff is going to change and that the secrets are the ships. Would have loved to find that out myself. I feel like they are telling us everything so that we get hyped, which we are now but I still miss that self discovery without everyone already telling me.

[@MuuToo]

I think I'd put it like this, and it's weird cuz I was thinking about it the other day. Lore channels used to be a lot more about speculation. Nowadays it's more about just reading the lore books to people. Feels like we lost more of that mystery when D2 came around and then when the Witness became the primary villain. That said, we're getting to almost a decade of lore in this game. Having more answers than questions at the peak of the mountain is to be expected.

[@jeremylandry858]

I see both sides to this. On the one hand, like you said, additional mysteries provide additional avenues of exploration. I no longer play the game and have no stake in the matter, but off the top of my head, Destiny has the following topics they could explore: Rebuilding Earth/the Last City with Sloane; Reclamation of Torobatl; Reclamation of Rees; Infiltrating and destroying the Vex network for good, not likely but they’ll always be a persistent threat and one which can be scaled; Time travel through Darkness powers to see, not alter, the Golden Age and the Collapse; The future of Clovis Bray and Braytech Industries; Savathun’s future; Some kind of event involving the Distributary and the Nine; Return of the Concordat and the other factions; etc. There are easily a hundred different story threads they can offer which could continue this story in perpetuity, none of which require adding to the mystery at this particular point in time and none of which require much mystery at all. Take the Reclamation of Rees example. We know exactly what happened, the mystery is what Rees looks like and who will take charge to reclaim it. Will it be Mithrax, Eido, or Eramis? Will the Coalition join the fight or will Caiatl head straight back to Torobatl? That’s a mystery, but one which can’t be answered prior to the end of Final Shape because it would reveal who will make it to the other side of this conflict. On the flip side of this debate, we have the obvious question of whether or not Destiny will actually continue. Other channels like Bellular are reporting the rumors that all the execs at Bungie are planning to cut and run after the DLC and the episodes drop. There seems to be very little hope in the game’s future past the saga of Light and Dark from within Bungie itself. Marathon seemed to be a massive misstep and I think they’re going to pay massively for it. And so, not having deeper mysteries prepared in the lore before the end of the saga pretty much signals that the game will end with a “neat little bow” ending where we just see or read about the Reclamations of Rees and Torobatl, the ongoing struggle of the Vex, and the future of the Vanguard and Earth. They need these future mysteries. That said, I think these mysteries do already exist and I’ll give you one perfect example of this. Unless we find out in Final Shape, there is still the question of where the Traveler came from. Is the Traveler the Light or a wielded of the Light? We know the Witness, Darkness, and the Deep are three separate entities, so why can’t the Traveler be two: the Traveler and the Light? If it is two separate entities, we won’t need the Traveler going forward and it may well die at the conclusion of Final Shape. Personally, I think we will discover that our missing Precursor is within the Traveler, perhaps the Traveler itself. Perhaps the name, Traveler, is very literal but not a description of the Orb. The Orb itself being a source of light would make sense and it being a ship would explain the machine aspect, but not who or what is controlling it. And, even if all of that is 100% true, it still doesn’t explain where the hell the Traveler came from. We know it existed before the Precursors as did the Veil. That means something came before them, something that created them as primal forces in the world, and something that could still be out there. There doesn’t need to be any other mysteries so long as that mystery persists. And if it does, if that’s the great mystery of Destiny, then all the others will only serve to get us to that point and reveal more about the universe. Unfortunately, I doubt we will get that far and I don’t even want to blame Bungie, Activision, or Sony here. I don’t think it’s their fault. It’s the fault of every other company running rampant with the live service model and choking what benefit exists in the model for the sake of a quick profit. Don’t get me wrong, Bungie and Destiny have absolutely abused the trust we put into them by removing previous content and charging full game release prices or more for a year of content, but it isn’t their fault the live service model is dying. They did it well. The model just can’t continue. It’s like Marvel. Did anyone else notice the coinciding of the end of the Infinity Saga, the launch of Disney+, and the sharp decline in Marvel’s quality? I know a lot of people did. Disney+, and most of the other streaming services, are just live service models. We all have them, and the burnout is very real. Destiny is just primed to be the latest victim

[@wyldingone8092]

I think the mystery of the earlier days of destiny 2 was really what brought me into the game. It's probably just personal preference but the reveals with the witness just arent exciting.

[@Eivion]

I don't disagree about the necessity of mystery, but I feel like there is plenty still there and left to explore. Just in terms of big mysteries there is plenty within the Vex, the Nine, and the Winnower. I know I would like to further explore the Cabal and others races existing within them. Would love to see more on Nezarec, especially away from the Witness influence.

[@reaganmessina5139]

Big question I have is what has been going on with the dreadnaught for the past 7 years? Although I do think that’s gonna be a big part of heresy so I’m not to concerned about that. I feel like the episodes that come out after final shape are going to do a lot to answer the looming questions of the game while also bringing in smaller new ones

[@jacobydrums9724]

Gotta be honest Byf, this video felt a bit…unnecessary? This feels like some sort of pre-criticism for something that may or may not be an issue after the saga of the light and dark is wrapped up. This feels like a video that would be great if after 2 or 3 episodes it feels like there is no mystery or wonder left in the universe. At this point, at the end of this saga, as you yourself said, it’s all about answers.

[@PpTheGreatest]

Whilst I agree with you that this video is unnecessary, I don't found that agreement on the same grounds as you. Pre-emptive criticism is worthwhile since prevention is always better than cure. It takes Bungie a LONG time to veer away from bad directions, so warning them as early as possible only serves to increase the chances of having a more suitable version of the game in the nearest possible future, rather than waiting for them to make the mistakes first and then waiting an age for them to correct them.

[@codswim5857]

My thought process, or somewhat of a theory I've made based on videos watched from you...is that we will die in the Final Shape and be resurrected at the very beginning or sometime in the future. You made a video about the "Corridor of Time" and us Guardians possibly dying at the end of Final Shape. Hopefully to be revived by 'The Gardener'. I've been thinking about how the story will progress after the Final Shape and if it will continue in Destiny 2 or be within a new Destiny 3. I came to my own conclusion upon watching your videos that we will be resurrected, but into a different time. It could be during the Golden Age, where it came to an end and the Traveler first appeared with the Ghosts. We all finally learn and experience what the beginning of the Last City was like. Or possibly, sometime into the future, which I haven't given enough thought too. Either way I believe this is a fun idea to get behind.

[@furniturebird2902]

Yeah, I been kinda thinking this for a while. Ever since Witch Queen when we finally got a (mostly) full understanding of the Hive and the Pyramid ships, I've been thinking that a lot of the mystery and wonder had faded. I think they will pull through in the end, because a big mystery is just, where the fuck do we go after this, and that had infinite possibilities.

[@Lorentz_Driver]

They never even explained what's in the Deep Stone Crypt don't hold your breath (The raid was on Morning Star).

[@justphilitup]

Random question Byf I know you a busy man but I have to ask: 1.) Now that we know that the Witness is more than one being combined could the Shadowkeep ending cutscene where it says, “we are not your enemy, we are not your friend, we are your salvation” be referring to itself since it is more than one being? Because back then I and possibly many others just assumed it said “we” referring to itself AND the black fleet? Something to ponder I suppose. Also, 2.) when the Witness cut those Guardians and their ships the way it did do you think that could be a “watered down” version of it making an object into its Final Shape? Only on a small scale because it has not obtained the power needed to do it on a grander scale(although it seems like it is practicing this technique inside the traveler according to the teaser trailer). Hope I aroused curiosity, I just love this game really lol

[@LuisDavila-ol7rr]

Personally I agree, Destiny definitely is at its best when it has questions looming within itself and it’s outer stories that are not focused on in the game. For example my favorite lore is regarding the Iron Lords and how they died. When I finally got my answer several years later in the Season of the Seraph, I was happy (mad at Rasputin definitely) but also disappointed that the mystery was over. Now my current curiosity is the Dark Age, so places like Warlord’s Ruin or just places on Earth that we get to visit, it’s the level designs that basically encourage me to ask questions that keep me hooked. Of course, I’m well aware that we may not focus much on Earth’s ruins because they don’t move the actual story along. But if they do need something to next focus on, I’d suggest the Nine or the Vex, cuz they really raised attention by showing us the Ishtar Collective logo in that secret chamber…

[@DrStunJosh]

Still watching, but I do miss the mysteries we had through the grimoire cards, the world quests (in D1 AND D2), and flavor text. I feel like those things have been lost somewhere around Shadowkeep as the story began being more streamlined.

[@orangesoda51414]

A new enemy faction would introduce TONS of new mysteries. The drifter's story has a shit ton of mysteries that could be explored. Also as you mentioned, the nine has so much potential

[@zachspanos441]

One cool thing that would happen ("I personally don't see it happening but") is that we could have a small faction of the hive that's like we want to help the vanguard and the guardians

[@MW2proification]

I agree on the release of more lore, particularity with the Units, Vehicles, bosses and NPC weapons of D2, and with the return of Grimoires in ITL update I hope there are those pertained to that.

[@barthotymous]

I like to think that maybe after the Witness has been dealt with, we are given reason to chase after any remaining disciples of the Witness hiding out among the universe, in which the path that we take on that journey leads to new mysteries and new story beats that can sprout into perhaps the next saga, or just a bunch of ready 'buds' that can be expanded on later (in a way, almost like 'restocking' the unknown lore shelf, so to speak)