Destiny Gets Warned Not To Trust Dr K ft. Dr Avi And Vegan Gains

Last night on Destiny
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#Destiny
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[@LastNightDestiny]

Destiny Nearly Got Kicked From Fox News Debate And Shapiro vs Andrew Tate ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIKwl5idfqejqtk

[@bongieger7871]

I love when medical professor, weapons expert, nuclear physicist and world leader Vegan Gains joins the talk

[@SantaCruzChillin]

Best summary of vegan gains ever lmao.

[@smarfl3]

You forgot cutting-edge entomologist and endocrinologist

[@jumpvelocity3953]

@@smarfl3as well as biologist and ecologist

[@hoffington]

​@@jumpvelocity3953 as well as an expert in world politics and lobster biochemistry.

[@Jake38nine]

I suppose my mom is a dangerous person because she changed and saved my life, huh? My mom runs a daycare and has no college education. I guess she's a terrible, horrible, dangerous, person, right? *Says sarcastically*

[@wolvziefan1120]

If I hadn't heard vegan gains in the intro I might have been tricked into watching this video

[@daveyboy4715]

Same, I just paused at 16 secs, quick scroll through the comments & I'm out, lol.

[@kenamada5451]

He's the last 5 minutes. Ya'll are safe till 30min in.

[@gabor9838]

@@kenamada5451thanks bud

[@afrochikkin]

August testing if VG's voice in the intro kills the total minutes viewed

[@franklingoodwin]

He's the only reason I watched. I love hating on my favourite lolcow 😂

[@anejchy]

"This is the first time I've heard of Dr. K or eastern medicine, I haven't even watched the full talk with Dr. Mike, now let me tell you what I image Dr. K thinks and why he's wrong and dangerous!"

[@ghost112945]

Exactly, they are just shadow boxing some version of Dr. K that doesn't exist lol

[@BillyWitchDoctorDotCom]

"Eastern medicine" is largely bullshit Homeopathy is a joke Ayurveda is a scam Traditional Chinese "medicine" is a hilarious scam

[@ItsSawyer8]

Vegan Gains thinks Vegan Teacher is a wonderful person. No one should ever take what he says seriously lmao

[@ErgonomicChair]

He can be wrong about her, and still be right that Doctor K supports a massive industry hat sells fucking arsenic to people as a cure for tremors. Fun fact, it causes them... and this was a treatment ayurveda had all the way to today. The science that Dr.K claims is based on the most "rational" and most "perfect" observation of cause and effect to the point they can understand germ theory thousands of years before anyone knew what germs were.

[@neetfreek9921]

He’s also a self identifying sociopath lmao

[@berserkthebattl]

This is a small drop in a bucket of his unhinged takes.

[@deeznutz8320]

@@berserkthebattl Exactly, remember when he screamed at the top of his lungs wanting to stomp a baby in a bloody puddle lol

[@SergeofBIBEK]

Nobody does

[@challajuzalei6126]

The older I get the more I am amazed at how smooth brain people can be. It's like they latch on to a couple words they don't like and just create this whole narrative in their head, then refuse to adjust their perspective upon new information they receive. It's depressing at this point...

[@dion5804]

One of the many problems with human brains.

[@InformedZoomer]

You should talk to Avi about this if you think he’s a smoothbrain, I’m sure he can clarify what he means or what you think he’s wrong about

[@Gregory-ud6zq]

You need to get older bro

[@meltedsnowman9637]

Kind of a meaningless comment. Who are you actually referring to?

[@challajuzalei6126]

@@meltedsnowman9637 Both Avi and Vegan gains.

[@kwaigy]

Nothing like a debate between two people agreeing about a strawman of their own creation

[@meltedsnowman9637]

What was the strawman? What did Avi say that was incorrect?

[@deadzoneternity]

​@@meltedsnowman9637 everything, which is obvious considering his admission he didn't even watch the video, and has never heard of dr k or any of the relevant topics of the discussion while tearing down his made up opinion he expects him to have. It would be easier if you were to provide a single example of an argument Avi attacked that dr k actually made.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@deadzoneternity So are you claiming that Dr K didn’t claim that Ayurveda focuses on the individual, whereas western medicine doesn’t and instead focuses on populations?

[@deadzoneternity]

@@meltedsnowman9637 No, he didn't, did you watch the video, or just listen to avi say what he thinks was said based on what dan was telling him he wants him to have said? He said Ayurveda is focused on individuals, for sure, but he did not say western medicine does not, he said western medicine is particularly good at finding solutions to large scale problems that will work for many individual people, most people even, but for the few people that that solution does not work for get left behind, and there is value to finding a solution for those individuals in an alternative method if western medicine is not focused on those outliers.

[@OnJahseh]

@@meltedsnowman9637 99% sure you are Avi’s alt, cause no one else would waste their time defending their strawmanned position in every single comment’s replies

[@Geckoo-eh7wq]

Reddit bro doesn't trust Dr.K should be the title

[@Akam-pc5pe]

Most if Dr Ks fans seem to be reddit bros. You should see his comment section

[@tooriginal9724]

@@Akam-pc5petakes one to know one

[@Akam-pc5pe]

@@tooriginal9724 oh my science, you have caught me!!!

[@Woolwoven]

@@Akam-pc5penah ur legit a reddit bro with that lingo

[@Akam-pc5pe]

@@Woolwoven indeed, good xir, I have already admitted to it. I even got some updoots for my good speak

[@TheMemeRepository]

I feel like we've gotta get Dr K into the call with these guys (maybe one at a time so it doesn't turn into a clusterfuck), because it often feels like there are core points being missed when one of his critics come up. Such as Dr K saying that he thinks that 90% of ayurvedic medicine is dogshit.

[@insensitive919]

Fancy seeing you in this little rabbithole

[@TheMemeRepository]

@@insensitive919 Like a fungus, I grow in many places. 😎

[@officerricky3230]

No he shouldn’t. I don’t think dr k is in the business of debating for views which is what this is.

[@somedogsarecops2354]

Why would Dr. K. come in and debate with these losers? Destiny already understands his stance on Eastern medicines, no reason to come on.

[@TheMemeRepository]

@@officerricky3230 Not really advocating for a debate. More just a clarification of his position for the record, in the (perhaps vein) hope that they'll stop misrepresenting what he actually says & believes. Admittedly, might not help much, but a man can dream.

[@OrionBlaze]

Dr K made me start going to therapy, take antidepressants, start meditating, get an ADHD diagnosis, start taking Vyvanse, stop hating myself, be less insecure, be more compassionate about others... i think all these people talking about him neglecting Western medicine just watched a couple hit pieces on Dr.K but haven't truly watched hours of his content

[@coreyander286]

Thousands of psychiatrists could have told you to go to therapy and get treatments. That Dr. K happens to be the one who did does not suggest that he has no major problems or ulterior motives. Plenty of people _feel_ like they owe Jordan Peterson a turn in their life, so can't bear to criticize him. Victims of cult leaders also feel they're beyond reproach because they helped them.

[@jumpergamer1913]

​@@coreyander286 Apparently every person that was helped with a positive figure in their lives were actually victims of manipulation because of course they may have no major problems or ulterior motives despite no evidence of it.

[@franklingoodwin]

​​@@coreyander286Exactly. The best conmen and grifters (and I'm not saying Dr. K is one) mix in truth with lies. That's why they're so convincing.

[@OrionBlaze]

@@coreyander286 what im saying is that people talk about him as if he pushed ayurvedic medicine over western medicine when he is always advocating for science based treatments. I rarely hear him say anything woo woo

[@barcalona55]

Sheep

[@JuJuB3an9585]

The title told me Vegan Gains was in this video lol Edit: when I said this vegan gains and avi’s names weren’t in the title lol

[@Imperial_Squid]

Honestly, my money was on Dan stirring shit, but I should've known better

[@user-er1fs3je4x]

thank you for saving me 35 mins lol, I'm not familiar with the vegan gains lore and thought it was a random viewer at first

[@Imperial_Squid]

@@user-er1fs3je4x vegan gains *_can_* be a good watch but in the same way that the transformers films are, it's best to turn your brain off and enjoy the ride

[@user-er1fs3je4x]

@@Imperial_Squid yeah i've listened to a few debates of him and tiny and I find him to be the literal stereotype of 'the annoying vegan friend'.

[@ArchiURURU]

instaskip

[@DerBlupp]

this dr k bad arc is incredibly boring

[@lampad4549]

Why? This is some spicy shit, taking down a sacred cow

[@animepussy8356]

@@lampad4549 because noone who has an issue with Dr. K has any idea what theyre talking about

[@poadude]

@@lampad4549it’s basically just Reddit laymen and internet talking heads who have no real professional stake in the game trying to debate bro someone who both works in the field and has thought about both sides of the argument more than anyone criticizing him. Pretty boring aside from watching people like Dr. Mike embarrass themselves, which gets old a little fast.

[@coreyander286]

"Boring" hear means "I'm scared and made uncomfortable".

[@askers_]

No it's genuinely boring, can we ramp up the drama please

[@boringangryloser]

He's a Doctor, he studied to be a monk for 7 years, he started to help people with video game addictions online through the form of a live stream, continued to develop this into something that could help even more people- like what else does he need to do to demonstrate his genuine altruism? Calling Dr K untrustworthy in his field is similar to calling Dave Ramsey untrustworthy- sure, both of their fields are filled with scam artists and shills, but these men obviously stand out as genuine. Sure, they both benefit from their platforms, but if you didn't allow yourself to benefit from your own platform, you'd never be able to reach as many people.

[@3magikarpinamansuit281]

Altruism is not the main point, it seems the claim is Dr. K has a bias towards eastern style ideas some think are problematic.

[@Anunnaki4238]

Yup and he’s helped me a lot thru his content. Like yeah the guy who helped me and made me a better person to others in my life is dangerous 😂 Only someone toxic would think DrK is bad.

[@busbee247]

Video game addiction is bullshit. It's like saying you're a cheetos addict

[@Substantial-hf1rm]

​@@busbee247 You don't understand what an addiction is at all, also worth mentioning video game addiction is a very small part of the topics he covers.

[@Breadbored.]

There are plenty of qualified doctors in every field that are adamantly wrong and will keep being wrong despite the negative impact it has on people because they think they know better than everybody else and the rules are for the less qualified people. My mother's physician diagnosed her with "gas" when her abdomen filled with acsitic fluid due to decompensated cirrhosis that he caused by keeping her prescribed a medication for her neuromuscular disorder 15 years longer than the recommended duration. He then went on to disagree with the specialist's diagnosis that suggested that may have been the cause and instead labeled it "cryptogenic" (basically means there's no known cause). He then prescribed her the wrong medications to treat the ascites, despite the specialist typing a list for him to prescribe.... All because he was so well trained that he thought he knew better than everybody else. He had 35 years experience and multiple degrees from an extremely good university. Dr. K might not be a super villain or anything, but I wouldn't recommend him to a friend and I for sure wouldn't be going to him for help.

[@SpaceOddity174]

People's brains just shut down completely when it comes to Dr K, grade schooler levels of comprehension

[@Jay-kx4jf]

Dr K already mentions that both of them are converging anyway. So I'm not sure why he thinks d K doesnt think allopathy does individualized care. His main point is keeping the frameworks that allowed for stuff like yoga/tai chi and meditation

[@ogbmt]

Yeah he doesn't understand Dr K's position at all. The reaction to this has been really eye opening for me. We all watched the same 2 hour video but now I'm seeing all these people selectively hear things, and hear things that weren't even in there.

[@Imperial_Squid]

​@@ogbmtpeople wouldn't just go online and make up stuff to support their pre-existing viewpoints would they?

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@ogbmt So when Dr K was saying that certain aspects of Eastern medicine are better than Western medicine, did he even once in that entire 2 hour debate make it clear what specifically those aspects are?

[@TheFatAssCat]

​@@meltedsnowman9637many times, yes.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@TheFatAssCat Notice how not a single person in the comments has explained how Dr K did that? Not one? It’s all just assertions with nothing backing it up.

[@nathanmitchell7961]

Dan using Homeopathy and Arevuda interchangeably when it suits his convenience is crazy.

[@yonaoisme]

no. they both have something in common, which is why he brings up homeopathy in the first place. and the thing they have in common is that whatever they are claiming to be effective at curing something, they do so without an explanation of how they work other than superstitious nonsense that directly clashes with basic scientific knowledge

[@fourtyseven47572]

​@@yonaoismeIts a dishonest word game. Dan knows nothing about this topic

[@nathanmitchell7961]

@@yonaoisme No, they are succinctly different and using them interchangeably is dishonest and harmful to the discussion. Arevuda was discovered 3,500 years ago in India with the aim of *preventing disease* , It is the alternate form of medicines where we use herbs, vegetables, minerals and more to cure and eradicate the disease with the three doshas Vat (wind)Pit (bile)Kaf (phlegm) which claims Imbalance of these can be the cause of diseases. It provides Panchkarma therapy, Kshar Sutra and emphasizes on Yoga and the most *important* distinction from Homeopathy it directly intended to compliment allopathic medicines while Homeopathy is strictly *AGAINST* it. Homeopathy was discovered in 18th Century by Samuel Christian Hahnemann in Germany with the aim of *curing* disease instead of *preventing* it, one of many crucial differences between the two. Homeopathy also uses Medicine diluted in alcohol or distilled water rather than Herbs, vegetable drugs, minerals seen in Arevuda (which ha little or no chances of side effects as it uses minerals) Homeopathy dangerously views this with a sort of "‘Like cures like’" treatment plan. Like i mentioned before the obvious and most significant difference is that Homeopathy is *strictly against* allopathic medicine. Homeopathy is dangerous and i actually agree with Dan but you and Dan both know that conflating them allows you to easily and lazily group Arevuda into the justified criticisms of Homeopathy without having to concede the massive and borderline crucial differences between the two.

[@nathanmitchell7961]

@@fourtyseven47572 No, they are succinctly different and using them interchangeably is dishonest and harmful to the discussion. Arevuda was discovered 3,500 years ago in India with the aim of *preventing disease* , It is the alternate form of medicines where we use herbs, vegetables, minerals and more to cure and eradicate the disease with the three doshas Vat (wind)Pit (bile)Kaf (phlegm) which claims Imbalance of these can be the cause of diseases. It provides Panchkarma therapy, Kshar Sutra and emphasizes on Yoga and the most *important* distinction from Homeopathy it directly intended to compliment allopathic medicines while Homeopathy is strictly *AGAINST* it. Homeopathy was discovered in 18th Century by Samuel Christian Hahnemann in Germany with the aim of *curing* disease instead of preventing it, one of many crucial differences between the two. Homeopathy uses Medicine diluted in alcohol or distilled water rather than Herbs, vegetable drugs, minerals seen in Arevuda (which ha little or no chances of side effects as it uses minerals) Homepathy dangerously views this with a sort of "‘Like cures like’" treatment plan. Like i mentioned before the obvious and most significant difference is that Homeopathy is *strictly against* allopathic medicine. Homeopathy is dangerous and i actually agree with Dan but you and Dan both know that conflating them allows you to easily and lazily group Arevuda into the justified criticisms of Homeopathy without having to concede the massive and borderline crucial differences between the two.

[@nathanmitchell7961]

@@yonaoisme No, they are succinctly different and using them interchangeably is dishonest and harmful to the discussion. Arevuda was discovered 3,500 years ago in India with the aim of *preventing disease* , It is the alternate form of medicines where we use herbs, vegetables, minerals and more to cure and eradicate the disease with the three doshas Vat (wind)Pit (bile)Kaf (phlegm) which claims Imbalance of these can be the cause of diseases. It provides Panchkarma therapy, Kshar Sutra and emphasizes on Yoga and the most *important* distinction from Homeopathy it directly intended to compliment allopathic medicines while Homeopathy is strictly *AGAINST* it. Homeopathy was discovered in 18th Century by Samuel Christian Hahnemann in Germany with the aim of *curing* disease instead of preventing it, one of many crucial differences between the two. Homeopathy uses Medicine diluted in alcohol or distilled water rather than Herbs, vegetable drugs, minerals seen in Arevuda (which ha little or no chances of side effects as it uses minerals) Homepathy dangerously views this with a sort of "‘Like cures like’" treatment plan. Like i mentioned before the obvious and most significant difference is that Homeopathy is *strictly against* allopathic medicine. Homeopathy is dangerous and i actually agree with Dan but you and Dan both know that conflating them allows you to easily and lazily group Arevuda into the justified criticisms of Homeopathy without having to concede the massive and borderline crucial differences between the two.

[@nathanielomokanye8467]

Please watch the original video in its entirety because all speakers in this critic lacked a basic understanding of Dr. K's argument.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

That was the entire point. The entire point is that Dr K was saying Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine without even once making it clear in the entire 2 hour debate how Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine, to the point that it’s not even clear how what Dr K is advocating for is any different to 100% Western medicine. Also literally no one defending Dr K has been able to explain how Dr K’s system he was advocating for was any different to 100% western medicine.

[@coreyander286]

Dr K: "The basic unit of existence is consciousness. And consciousness coalesces into energy and energy coalesces into matter." That's unforgiveable Deepak Chopra meaninglessness. And the context is he's talking about transcendent results of meditation or trips that he claims science can't yet understand. Everyone is pretending Dr. K only asserts mundane practical things.

[@KentPhillips]

@@meltedsnowman9637Peoples biases are clouding their interpretation of that video. Dr K’s main point is that while Western medicine is better we should look into Eastern medicine to see if there are any additional benefits it can add to Western medicine. He stated that explicitly and he even made the Video game Stat analogy by saying the west has 100 points in Western medicine and 10 points in Eastern medicine and might benefit from more points in Eastern medicine.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@KentPhillips Dr K made a lot of weird claims though like saying cohort studies are better for the individual than randomised controlled trials and saying that Ayurveda focuses on the individual and western medicine focuses on populations. He also didn’t really make it clear what specific aspects of Eastern medicine that western medicine should adopt that western medicine hasn’t already adopted.

[@nickwilliams2415]

​@@KentPhillips But he never actually explained how eastern medicine could benefit western medicine. He vaguely pointed to it being individualistic, and never went beyond that. If the whole point is just that we could learn from other ways of thinking, why was it a 2 hour debate that got nowhere? "We need to look at other people who do things differently than us, and try and pull the positive things from that, and integrate it into our current systems." There. Conversation over.

[@plsjustnathan1]

The discord notifications trigger me

[@yagnapatel3912]

skill issue, those sounds fuel the fire in my soul

[@MrJoebob111]

​@@yagnapatel3912 kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqepaoN3rcpohMk

[@AVspectre]

I enjoy that I’m not the only man one with background chaos…

[@itscebby8882]

I thought so at first but seeing them trigger chat made me change my mind lol

[@Vizceral]

Dr.K inspired me to go to therapy and save myself, so therefore he's based GIGACHAD

[@FreekinEkin2]

Not a good way to think. Some people say Allah saved them, doesn't make the beliefs based. You saved yourself.

[@RetreatSequel]

​@@FreekinEkin2bad example but true

[@Shayanzass]

@@FreekinEkin2 yeah he said he inspired him, he didnt say dr k saved him

[@TheFatAssCat]

I mean yes, but what helped that person save themselves? Educating yourself on mental Healthcare and issues that destimatize this shit and get people to seek professional healthcare is a good thing. Most mental healthcare channels suck noodles. Dr k doing his thing is good, even if it means he has how to toe the line just to exist in this space.

[@rin5531]

@@FreekinEkin2bro just wanted to take a shot at Islam 😂😂😂

[@junioralvarado629]

idk whats so wrong with a guy who says everything upfront, doesn't use it with all his patients, his techniques arent that wild?? (breathing techniques and meditation and word manifestation) this kinda reminds me of the kneesovertoe guy in which before it was a taboo to go past your toes and his sled work on his knee pain which has helped many ppl.

[@junioralvarado629]

dan has not read anything on dr k. there's a video of dr k explaining that alternative nostril breathing technique. its not about chakra being aligned at all. It gets your mind clear of any random thoughts by having you focus on manually breathing, which gets your mind into a calm headspace. this is what dr k describes as Westerners hearing anything foreign and making up their conclusion

[@Yrgzip0]

He also said alternating closing each nostril with your fingers is a technique to keep your mind in the present, not some chakra alignment lol. It’s obvious they want to attack Dr.Ks position while having 0 clue on what dr.k actually says

[@cjpack]

exactly. They are debating placebos and it is nothing to do with that. mindfulness and meditation is well backed up by science and neurologists have studied the brain when in these states. dan is thinking dr K is reading tea leaves or something.

[@nickwilliams2415]

Dr. K thinks that because Indians wipe with one hand, and eat with another, that means they have intimate knowledge of microbiology. Before they had separate hands, they probably didn't, and people were probably dying. They probably noticed this as said, "Well maybe try not eating with poop hand!" Then they stopped dying so much, and that became tradition. After watching that conversation he had with Dr. Mike, I question Dr. K's judgment a little. He doesn't seem to have a great understanding of cause and effect.

[@Rat-King27]

Also isn't there constantly new evidence that shows that meditation is very beneficial? Meditation is one of the things that Dr K suggests and is reccomended by most forms of western therapy, but it has strong roots in eastern medicine.

[@nickwilliams2415]

@@Rat-King27 Meditation has been popular in the west since the mid 20th centure. So he's trying to popularize something in the west that has been popular for 75 or so years? That's the problem. Most of the things from eastern medicine that we can learn from, we've already learned from. The question is what else is there to learn? More individualized care? Cool? How do we implement that? Or is it just that individualized care is good, and that's just a statement being made?

[@gibberish131]

I think a lot of people are struggling with the concept of mental health, and so are treating it purely like a physically disease with a given aetiology, that has simple to understand pathologies, etc. It is more akin (I feel), to a chronic debilitating illness, and less of a got headache - take aspirin, paracetamol, etc type situation. Not to try to project too much, but there appears to be a lack of understanding of complex brain chemistry, treatment courses, responses to stress, elevated emotions, etc So, I am coming away with impression that some (if not a lot of the callers, talkers, etc) on the anti-Dr K path, are failing to grasp this and are looking for a theoretical simple path through this.

[@gibberish131]

There is an assumed diagnosis being applied/implied, which is leading a highly prescriptive treatment course, in a bordering on OCD/Autistic approach (by the callers), which negates the multiple variables that could be involved, how we go about diagnosis and treatment, with long term care and monitoring. Given that the patients involved in treatment with Dr K are live, in a highly social environment, and thus under a microscope (with no internal monitoring) ... And not in the controlled conditions of a clinical study and/or trial. The callers are applying the assumed/presumed authority of 'The Science' (TM), in order to perform a level of Social Darwinism on the patients. I would argue, that in the same way that Prison (with all it's controls) is not the same as living amongst the community (with its multiple uncontrolled variables) that there is an assumed control in the heuristic framework being applied through the callers 'The Science' to the patients whom are living/operating in the community, with largely unknown physiology (they may not match the eligibility/sensitivity to and targetted elements of the pharmacological assumed approach of the callers). For the data from the particular scientific papers being produced from clinical trials and/or studies. There are several unknowns and emerging approaches being applied here in a live environment. The technological and para social/social media aspect, is a compounding element on top of an already (arguably poorly) understood physiology of the patients neurology (in situ). The callers can't possible understand all the variables, and speaking from a position where their is overreach on presumed point of authority. The compounding, combination of variables may not be as they understand

[@mortazo1263]

No one is failing to grasp this. There are issues with the way modern medicine treats mental health. If Dr K wanted to advocate for specific changes to how to change treatment paths, he could do that. A productive thing for Dr K to do would be using Healthy Gamer funds to start doing trials and studies into things like the effect of diet on mental health, meditation and mindfulness and holistic lifestyle treatment paths. This could all be done and would be very productive. The issue is, he's not doing that. He's explicitly rejecting the scientific process and embracing ayurveda directly. He's explicitly said he doesn't think RCTs are good here, which is utterly absurd and is quackery. I actually agree with a lot of Dr K's conclusions. The issue isn't his beliefs about mental health or even his treatment ideas in many cases. For example, I think he's one of the few people talking about the affect of microbiome on mental health, and the important emphasis that mindfulness as a treatment path needs to go beyond just daily meditation sessions. The big issue is his rejection of science as a methodology.

[@zekulir6419]

​@@mortazo1263"I want dr k to do x and if he isnt doing what i want its an issue" Ok buddy. Anyone is free to write papers but Dr K said he prefers helping people directly and he is free to do with his funds what he wants.

[@mortazo1263]

@@zekulir6419 Yeah, and I'm saying Dr K "prefers" to dump science in the garbage. You people are so cowardly. Say it with your chest out instead of sniveling around. You don't trust science, Dr K doesn't trust science and apparently Destiny doesn't either. Own your position. This is no different than being an anti-vaxxer, something Destiny spent months crusading about, but apparently he's too stupid to understand that he's now taken the anti-science position.

[@entropicflux8849]

it's wild that vegan gains would talk about someone being potentially dangerous as tho people don't remember that he's a self-styled sociopath.

[@AlbinoWhiteGuy]

It feels like they’re arguing against ghosts, Dr K never argued that random control trials shouldn’t be used or that they don’t work.

[@ClimbAndTeach]

The real question is Dr.Avi’s - just point out that Ayurvedic is completely useless and has found its way by chance to some positive conclusions. The system itself is flawed and shouldn’t be advocated for - But dr K does advocate for it. “Western medicine should be more personalized” then points to witch doctor pseudo science where they were pumping their people full of toxic metals

[@XDivineSouljax]

He did say that it’s antithetical to eastern medicine in the debate with Dr Mike

[@bobberry1463]

ya that why im so confuse by the conversation because all Dr.k wants is deeper research into eastern medicine and have a more open mind about different things instead of just thinking western medicine is the best.

[@JudasMaccabeus1]

@@XDivineSouljaxSaying that it’s antithetical to eastern medicine wasn’t implying that it was inherently less effective than eastern medicine; he was just pointing out that East and West have incredibly divergent and fundamentally different underlying philosophies on medicine.

[@XDivineSouljax]

@@JudasMaccabeus1 Rigjt but he’s implying that randomized controlled trials have no place in eastern medicine when that’s just bad science. Randomized control trials are essential to medicine for a variety of reasons and the fact eastern medicine doesn’t value or use them is bad

[@zaidaliahmed7869]

Also it sounds like Avi misunderstood a lot of what Dr.K was saying. Dr.K's basically saying, according to him, there's a lot of value in Ayurveda, that isn't scientifically studied yet, and that there's potential there

[@meltedsnowman9637]

No, I think Avi understood that. The criticism Avi had is that Dr K argued that Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine without once making it clear how Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine in that entire 2 hour debate.

[@zaidaliahmed7869]

@@meltedsnowman9637 I hard disagree, you can tell from the video he/Avi had some misunderstandings for sure, which is not to say he's stupid, just maybe he just had the interview in the background and listened to parts of it or something we don't know. He literally asked why Dr.K wants to bring in Ayurveda or why he's standing with it? He also asks is Dr.K suggesting to replace modern medicine with Ayurveda? which in the interview between Dr.Mike and K is kind of clear that Dr.K isn't suggesting to replace it but just making the point of value in Ayurveda and that studies could be useful. I kind of agree that it wasn't clear, I've been following Dr.K so I understand a bit more than what someone new to this may understand about it. From what I remember there was this talk about how Ayurveda generalizes as less as possible, there was also mentions of Dosha which is what Dr.K refers to as cognitive fingerprints which I think is what he means when he says it's very individualized because western medicine doesn't have this idea of a cognitive fingerprint as much, it means there's certain characteristics of the mind, and depending on that the same disease could manifest differently, and this is probably what Ayurveda people? doctors? practitioners? observed, which tbh I can kinda buy into, if there's a concept that associates someone's characteristics of their mind with diseases, that sounds very helpful, and can make it easier to treat them as well potentially? (I wouldn't know I'm not a doctor). Whereas Western mewdicine is completely generalized. Now it could be the case that Ayurveda is what Dr.K prefers in terms of philosophy and concept of it, and he's seen some clinical successes with it, probably more than he has with Western ideologies which is why he sees so much value in it.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@zaidaliahmed7869 I think Dr Avi’s question was just “what exactly should western medicine adopt from eastern medicine, that western medicine isn’t already doing?” Also Avi’s point was that western medicine is already predicated on individualising care. So the question is “how does eastern medicine individualise care better than western medicine?”

[@zaidaliahmed7869]

@@meltedsnowman9637 Okay, I typed out a whole reply, and it disappeared, thanks youtube lol.I think this is answered in the interview already as well, I'll type out a lazier/shorter reply. It's not "if individualising is present or not", it's "how much of it" is present, and is it secondary or is that a big priority, in Ayurveda it's a big priority, whereas in the western approach it's secondary. And they go as far as to say that what makes a good or bad doctor is how well they can individualize it, there are some that are good at it yes, but compared to Ayurveda where the entire foundation is individualizing, western medicine is a bit behind. On a spectrum of 0-100 Western maybe 10-20 whereas Ayurveda might be 100. To shorten it further, Dr.K's stance is Ayurveda has a higher degree of "individualizing", and that's better or has some value according to him.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@zaidaliahmed7869 I would say western medicine is 100% about individualising the best care to the patient. Dr K doesn’t make it clear how Ayurveda individualises to the patient better than western medicine.

[@AWESOM.O]

I think that the future of medicine will be personalized treatments. Genetic studies and also quantic computers (able to make projections in the long term, simulate interactions between molecules, medicines and a particular form of disease) are going in that direction. However, I also agree when Dan says that Dr K is the Uber of psychology... A lot of people are happy to use Uber too.

[@RApimp98]

I’ve studied Traditional Chinese Medicine, at PCOM in San Diego (acupuncture, herbs, yin/yang theory, etc) and while I didn’t complete the course, I did gain a lot of understanding behind how it approaches healthcare. When you look at it on the surface, I’ll be the first to admit it sounds fantastical/crazy. But the more I studied it, it honestly made sense. Non of the teachers there ever downplayed western medicine. They know it has lots of advantages and areas it does extremely well in. Every teacher there was a licensed and practicing practitioner. They’d even say “if I get into a car accident, don’t rush me to my acupuncturist! Get me to the ER!” Lol What TCM excels at is preventive care. Whereas it seems most ppl only seek out wester care AFTER the damage is already done/manifested. I don’t see why we can’t use both set of tools.

[@stonecoldscubasteveo4827]

So Eastern medicine only works for things that can't be quantified or proven. You can't prove something would have happened if not for this mystical treatment. I tell you what, if you rub a potato in your armpits you won't get brain cancer. I bet you can't find anyone with brain cancer who rubbed a potato in their armpits daily. See? it's a really effective form of preventative care! In reality, there is no such thing as "Eastern" or "Western" medicine. There is Medicine and there is woo-woo voodoo bullshit. Medicine is happy to take treatments from any part of the world, so long as the efficacy can be demonstrated in actual RCT studies. Ancient Chinese herbs? Sure! Let's get them in the lab and analyze them for medicinal properties! (pharmaceutical companies already do this.) Acupuncture? Let's see how the studies turn out. Make sure we control for the placebo effect! TCM and Ayurveda and Homeopathy are just like fundamentalist Christian faith healers "laying on hands" and driving sickness out of the faithful with the power of Jesus. It's possible that they have stumbled upon some things that work, but as they lack any epistemological rigor, it's a "broken clock is right twice a day" situation.

[@Fubasta]

That kind of feels like what Dr K is saying in the conversation. That western medicine might have some blindspots and maybe they can be filled with some parts of eastern medicine. The narrative of "he wants to replace western medicine" seems like it comes from listening to other people talk about ayurveda or just hearing a clip or two of him talking.

[@askers_]

No you didn't

[@RApimp98]

@@Fubasta I didn’t listen to what Dr K said about it, but I can sense that was the direction he was probably taking it. But yeah, TCM just looks at the entire body in a different approach and has different techniques ie western medicine will check one’s pulse for heart rate, but TCM looks at about 32 aspects of the pulse on the wrist.

[@RApimp98]

@@askers_ lol ooook. No but really, if you wanna discuss it, I’m down.

[@cutiecatboy]

How can you have a hate boner for Dr K of all people?

[@endyenderson]

internet is gonna internet

[@TNTspaz]

He started focusing his content towards actual education and teaching. He informed or educated people on topics that they have a strong opinion on and think that no one should ever learn about. That's literally it. It's the people who think you can't trust people with information while at the same time never actually properly teach people how to engage with the information. Their strategy is to keep everyone ignorant. Everyone saying he misheard, is misinterpreting, or misunderstood. However, I think he knows full well what Dr.K's positions are. He just doesn't like people talking about anything but his current beliefs on any level. Even if it's just acknowledging they exist. It reminds me of all the communists who over intellectualize so no one knows what they are talking about and they can gatekeep the "plebs"

[@Imperial_Squid]

Right? Other than the Ayurveda thing I legit don't think there's any good reasons to hate the guy (and even then, I can see his point a bit)

[@GlassMelon]

People are still afraid of mental health/non western medicine . Think he’s just the indirect hate beacon unfortunately.

[@tmchannel8483]

My only beef with Dr. K is about his use of the word "objective" when talking about suicide. He keeps saying some people simply realize they have lives that are "objectively" not worth living. This is a religious idea as far as I'm concerned. Life being worth living is entirely subjective.

[@GalaxyBard]

How to talk for a long time without saying anything....

[@somedogsarecops2354]

The weird obsession with Dr. K. and this vodoo doctor strawman they created is uber cringe.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

This is the classic Hasan line that any criticism of someone = obsession. The criticism is just that Dr K is saying that applying some Ayurvedic practices has some utility over applying only western medicine practices, without even once making it clear what those Ayurvedic practices are in that entire 2 hour.

[@mrsmellyboy1]

​​@@meltedsnowman9637those are yoga, meditation, taishi. All proven to be good in papers I think. And he adds to that things that he feels are a little better models like dosias, this based in his clinical practice, theory.But don't get it twisted he completely or for the most part he follows western standards. He just uses eastern practice as a complement to his western practices. And he questions what else can we bring from ayurveda.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@mrsmellyboy1 If it’s proven to be good in papers, then that’s generalising based on what works in others. Dr K seemed at points to be arguing against generalising practices that work in others to the individual.

[@mrsmellyboy1]

​@@meltedsnowman9637 I would highly doubt that his base point is something like meditation, for example, he said in the begining of the conversation with dr Mike that he wasnt diagnosing ice coffe podcast because he didnt use all the different parameters in the books(western psychology books). What I am trying to say I dont think he ever starts with ayurveda stuff, its always an additive because there is no scientific papers on alot of this stuff. He uses the ones I mention and adds other things but never as the basis of his work.

[@weirdautumn]

​@@meltedsnowman9637Destiny is absolutely obsessed with Hasan. I mean that's understandable as he basically pays Destiny's child support lol

[@BigMikeyVee]

Imagine taking what Vegan Gains says seriously

[@UntouchIGF]

Yeah, you prob would get as depressed as he is

[@paulaagam5071]

Why the hate tho? Because you disagree with one thing he says?

[@UntouchIGF]

@paulaagam5071 You really think it's about one thing?

[@paulaagam5071]

@@UntouchIGF yea I mean if you’re a newer Destiny fan you may not have seen the first debate destiny had with VG. Destiny considered it a good debate (not sure if his opinion changed) since it is a challenging conversation on the topic of veganism because of the insane logical conclusions that are permissible when remaining consistent

[@dalodulo1373]

Vegans gains calling anyone "potentially dangerous" is wild given his history.

[@Joker-ig8im]

Jesus. How many times is Vegan Stains going to come in with his wildly inaccurate takes on other peoples voiced opinions and present his biased declarations of facts without ever once being able to provide a single source or actual example to back up his position when Destiny asks? Destiny asks every time so he should know it's coming. Just once make yourself a bookmark or text yourself a link. Just once.

[@Lord_Nikon33]

Hearing VeganLames say someone is dangerous is just hilarious. The dude wants anyone who eats animals to be killed off, and given the chance, he would definitely participate and work towards this idea. So Dr.k talking about mindfulness meditation is not even on the radar, lol

[@andreasmelkersson3592]

@Lord_Nikon33 VG and Avi are two very odd individuals. They come across as extremely smart to some, not to me.

[@billballinger5622]

@@andreasmelkersson3592they trick a particular type of dumb person into thinking they're smart. They got manure between their ears

[@AtomicLegion]

Every single time this discussion happens: "Show me proof that Dr. K is doing something unethical", and not a single fucking person is able to link a clip of this.

[@OrionBlaze]

why are vegans so full of hate ?

[@sarahw4819]

They’re always hungry

[@kaytee7607]

@@sarahw4819actual facts 😂 im mad when Im hungry

[@truthhammer69]

Because humanity is hipocriical vile creatures?

[@TOOTHLESS666]

​@kaytee7607 hope your not vegan lol 😆

[@the_derpler]

Why are you making this assumption based on one dude?

[@doublestarships646]

Ultimately anyone with a mental illness, 99% of streamers talking about this topic, shouldn't be talking about mental illness.

[@walterlaten7662]

Most of em mentally ill themselves especially whit the stands and takes they have u know there something a bit off up there

[@thursalamader]

that is straight up false lmao

[@dexterrkk3711]

It’s literally them saying what they struggle with

[@doublestarships646]

@@thursalamader A lot of them lie about their experiences

[@doublestarships646]

@@dexterrkk3711 If they're even telling the truth. Most of them make up to cover up what they did like Minx.

[@WaffleRofl]

I kept waiting for steven to cut avi off and it just never came. Bro literally just restated his position over and over in slightly different phrasing for like 20 minutes. What a waste of time video.

[@billballinger5622]

Seriously. I dont believe that kid is a Dr either sounds like a fraud to me

[@teganfranco8348]

I feel like everyone talking about "Dr. K says get rid of all Western Medicine for Ayurveda" didn't actually listen to what he said, he was giving the mindset of those who practice Ayurveda, and his word choices were obvious "THEY think this way" and using "WE use RCT" but maybe I'm just looking too closely

[@meltedsnowman9637]

The criticism was never that Dr K said to get rid of all western medicine than Ayurveda. The criticism is that Dr K says that Ayurveda individualises to each patient better than Western medicine does, without even once making it clear how Ayurveda individualises to each patient better than Western medicine. The criticism is just “how is what Dr K is advocating for any different than 100% western medicine?”

[@teganfranco8348]

@@meltedsnowman9637 it is said in this video and in previous videos, and in many comments I have read, which is why I felt like pointing it out. But the separate criticism of Dr. K saying Ayurveda individualizes each patient better than western medicine doesn't make sense to me. He explains that Ayurveda's major approach to "healing" or whatever it does is based on the individual. It prioritizes the individual. How could its approach not be more individualized than any other method that doesn't value the individual that heavily? I don't see any statements made that the outcomes are more advanced or that Ayurveda cures anything more efficiently than Western medicine. For me, at least, it comes back to a major misunderstanding of whats being said. I could be the one misunderstanding too, but from what I have seen and heard of Dr. K I just fundamentally disagree with most of these claims (as in, I don't know the validity of Ayurvedic approaches to things, but I don't see Dr. K do anything that approaches advocating for basically anything other than speaking to a western doctor)

[@poadude]

Yeah people’s brains are completely breaking and essentially every single pushback or criticism of Dr. K just further proves the point he’s making that westerners cannot get out of their own framework for a second, even hypothetically, enough to even INVESTIGATE if there are other efficacious approaches

[@Alex_the_Dad]

​@@meltedsnowman9637avis first words were literally what you're claiming he didn't say

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@Alex_the_Dad Shown me the timestamp where Avi said Dr K wants to get rid of all of western medicine.

[@Mixxedyolyfe]

How does destiny get his discord vs in the corner of stream?

[@orcanimal]

Well, if rational and level-headed ol' Vegan Gains says someone's "unhinged", surely that person is the devil incarnate...

[@chrisellis428]

29:29 does anyone know what movie theyre talking about? I cant understand him nor can the captions, Thanks!

[@zaidaliahmed7869]

So Avi, Destiny, Dr. K stream when?

[@rexusam7319]

Got cucked into a 30 minute Dan episode. Da(m)n it.

[@itscebby8882]

The only enjoyable kind of cuckoldry imo 🥰

[@wallytomlins]

I trust him. I love him

[@handsomebear.]

🤮

[@pucktruck]

This is hard to watch. Avi completely misunderstood that discussion between Dr. Mike and Dr. K. and Destiny didn't even watch the full discussion. Dr. K multiple times said that he thinks there are tons of problems with it.

[@StrenkoB]

Dr. K wasn't saying we need to uproot our current system for eastern methods. He's just saying that there's probably something valuable in the way they've done things, and we shouldn't completely cast everything about it aside just because there might be a lot that's wrong. I feel like literally no one actually watched more than five 10- second clips if that talk. It's actually insane.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

The criticism is just that Dr K said Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine, without Dr K even once making it clear in the entire 2 hour conversation how Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine.

[@yonaoisme]

you CAN do studies on the effectiveness of individual ayurveda practises. but we already know for the vast majority of them that they are a acam or outright dangerous. and if by offchance one practise comes out as useful, that doesn't mean that ayurveda was food all along, it just means that that specific practise is now part of the scientific corpus.

[@fourtyseven47572]

​@@yonaoisme if theres no studies how do you know its a scam? Youre also doing what Dr K complained about, taking the good parts (meditation) and saying its niw not connected to Ayuverda at all and its in the western science camp

[@yonaoisme]

@@fourtyseven47572 there is no study on my claim that a pound of grass cures xy disease. you would have to do a study for every disease on earth, having a group of people having that diseasw eat a pound of grass and not get cured to be convinced that i am a sharlatan???? what planet are you living on?

[@yonaoisme]

@@fourtyseven47572 and after millions of people ate pound of grass with no recovery, i will claim that two pounds actually cure their disease. and they keep eating, just to find out if i am right this time

[@hugmonger]

Dude what is the run time of the opening ramble?

[@SergeofBIBEK]

9 mins before he gave space for Destiny to say something

[@hugmonger]

@@SergeofBIBEK Destiny really didn't say anything in this video.

[@SergeofBIBEK]

@@hugmonger he tried, but this guy gave him no room

[@TheAmos1]

wherewithal is a financial term often misused, it's additional general funds given to be used only for emergencies or unplanned expenses

[@AviMD]

lmao the Dr. K simps in the comments here are wild. This whole thing just seems like a wild motte and bailey. The question is simple, WTF is he recommending we do differently *that we aren't already doing*? If nothing, why is he posturing as if he has some criticism of western medicine? Yes, I watched the whole discussion. I still have no idea what he thinks we should do differently, if anything at all. I can't even get 2 different Dr. K simps to agree on what Dr. K is saying. I'd be happy to talk to Dr. K himself to bypass all the lunatics here, if possible.

[@ayh4968]

Based

[@No_OneV]

LMAO. "potentially dangerous" these people are delusional.

[@Dotfye]

They are so dramatic hahahhahshs

[@itscebby8882]

@@Dotfye Vegan Gains is dramatic? No way! 🤯

[@Larinx-11463]

you're right, live therapy and improper/lack of screening is not potentially dangerous, it IS dangerous.

[@billballinger5622]

Anything "outside the box" will instantly be dismissed by rigid thinkers

[@billballinger5622]

@@Larinx-11463boohoo. No it isn't and you're a coward

[@Joshua-gc4ps]

Let's face it, Destiny doesn't have the best track record when it comes to trusting people.

[@tripplejaz]

right, so don't listen to the people in his orbit :^)

[@dazza761]

Plus Dr k's belief in past life and atavistic medicine tends to erode the trust of most sane people. It's like learning you therapist believes in horoscopes and homeopathy.

[@jaer.6540]

​@@dazza761my therapist believes in God and goes to church, while I'm an atheist. Should I stop seeing him because I don't believe in mythical man in sky and he does? As long as your faith doesn't get in the way of your clinical work, who gives a flying fuck

[@schnutzudri918]

yes, but comparing Dr. K to individuals such as Lav, Mr. Girl, Vegan gains etc. is a stretch.

[@Yannis_Adonis]

why not respond a specific bad point he made?

[@dovinue9289]

The discord notification sound is killing me

[@FreerunningGamer]

I'm so glad Dan told him about the discord sounds haha

[@Impervious11]

32:58 That sums it up. "Can you give an example" "Well... no..." These guys are trying way too hard to hate on a guy who is clearly good faith and genuinely wanting to find the best ways to help people. That doesn't mean that he's free from criticism, but it does mean he deserves the benefit of the doubt, and that he shouldn't be broadly criticized for something there are 0 examples of.

[@KryptonianChaos1]

What a bad arc. The writers are getting lazy this season.

[@Gaingar]

Vegan gains has to be the worst current orbiter destiny has lmao.

[@TSSPDarkStar]

What does destiny say at 5:46?

[@the88mph]

Acupuncture actually has been shown to have higher success rates then a simple placebo and it would probably be good to understand the underlying mechanisms to that. I've done acu and it didn't work at all for me, but there must be some reason that it consistently seems to have higher rates of success for others.

[@doogied9082]

Thank God I came to the comments. I was getting so triggered listening to this and was wondering if this was maybe an arrogance thing or whatever, was so glad to see that most other people thought that Dan and the skin doctor had missed the point.

[@ReallyAwesomeBoy]

Even if it reduces average mortality it's still a net positive. Utility shouldn't be measured at all, but if it is it would make more sense to measured by number of choices made, more people get a their preferred option if there is another option.

[@EnvoiGG]

Lads is there any validity to the Dr.K hate? I just recently started watching him, and I really need his advice to be legit dawg

[@snst_p]

there are valid criticisms of dr K but any of the hate against dr K just comes from idiots

[@junioralvarado629]

no just ppl being very cautionary about non traditional method, just read dr k healthygamer wiki if you have any questions

[@neetfreek9921]

The cringest thing Dr.k supports is dharma, I think it has toxic implications. I’ve been watching him on and off for like 2-3 years. He is really good in pretty much every other aspect. Just take the Hindu stuff with a grain of salt, and it’s fine.

[@ReubenModeXXX]

I mean. He's Dr Phil for twitch. All he does is use his therapy to exploit vulnerable people for viewership.

[@neetfreek9921]

@@ReubenModeXXX Stop infantilizing people

[@andresavage416]

This Avi guy hasn’t really bothered to listen to dr k has he? Dr k loves western medicine, He things it’s important and effective, he just thinks the shitting on thousands of years of studying the art of medicine - the more individual care that the east has done better - doesn’t help. He is offering a lot of help to so many. He just wants to use smart things from both medicines, no?

[@Breadbored.]

If that were the case, Dr. K would he publishing tons and tons of groundbreaking research, making his treatment methods the standard going forward.

[@nguyendi92]

@@Breadbored. And you also haven't bothered to listen to DR K either... He is doing it RIGHT NOW, because he don't want to wait 15 years for study to came out. There are other people doing research RIGHT NOW. But the one having problem right now do not have the luxury to wait 15 years. 1 months of mental suffering already throw your life out of wack(also my experience). It's not his life purpose, and belief to do research instead of doing thing right now. for people is suffering at this moment.

[@Breadbored.]

@@nguyendi92 "because he don't want to wait" That's exactly my point. That's the attitude of a man who shouldn't have a license to practice and should be held liable for any damages on his own dime.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

The criticism is just that Dr K said Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine, without Dr K even once making it clear in the entire 2 hour conversation how Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine.

[@andresavage416]

@@Breadbored. yeah he focusing on helping people now, to me that’s important in a world like ours, no?

[@SupaDupaDanga]

I really think people think there's no way you can go after any illness of the mind or otherwise without the introduction of pills or surgury. People can't ever imagine their could potentially be simple solutions to certain illnesses

[@GreenShellGamer]

get the damn discord notification sounds off I'm going crazy

[@Walterwahl7]

Can someone let me know what avi's credentials are for this? I have certain conditions where I am an outlier and need a deeper dive than general care. I have two personal friends who are doctors and one of them flat out told me, your situation is a really tricky one and you're the 10% where genes play a bigger role. For example, I have two issues, if I take medication for either issue - it corrects one issue but greatly negatively affects the other issue. So individual treatment for my case is very beneficial.

[@poadude]

He’s a dermatologist LOL

[@poadude]

He gives people lotion for rashes and is talking shit about someone who works in mental health.. two completely different disciplines

[@DCzero50]

Why are people acting like Dr K is doing some wacky guru stuff. He pretty much just likes yoga and meditation which if youre unhealthy memtally or physically is gonna be pretty good for you. I dont get why they think he's doing some kind of voodoo

[@Daemakon]

Because he IS into some wacky stuff, and in his conversation with Dr. mike he seriously downplayed how much he not only believes it but pushes it on his clients. From memory: he believes in chackras and dosha. That people have fire, air, earth, and whatever else elemental energy that dictates how they live and make choices in their life.

[@whoknows5093]

@@Daemakonthings that never happened

[@meltedsnowman9637]

The criticism is just that Dr K said Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine, without Dr K even once making it clear in the entire 2 hour conversation how Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine.

[@Rulettaja0]

@@Daemakon Thats just factually untrue what the fuck are you talking about? "From memory: he believes in chackras and dosha. That people have fire, air, earth, and whatever else elemental energy that dictates how they live and make choices in their life." He literally says the opposite in the fucking podcast lol. Holy fuck you guys are stupid.

[@Daemakon]

@@whoknows5093 Tell me you haven't watched an old Dr. K video without telling me....

[@motina10]

I don't understand what causes people to get a completely different take on what Dr. K said and then have trouble providing the exact words they are upset (safe assumption?) at.

[@joshuaworman4022]

ah man it was a "dan agrees with dan" episode.. fun.

[@starsky1012]

I never got the impression that Dr. K was trying to say that modern medicine doesn't individualize care for patients. He even said explicitly the reason we have clinicians at all is to take all the data we've gotten from research of RCTs and everything else we know from our system of medicine to then "translate it and apply it to an individual".

[@Dumbfudge1421]

Regarding the rct at the beginning of the video. My understanding is that dr.k point is to simply not take them as scripture as they dont apply to every patient to the same degree,hence medicine need to be catered to the individual patient. I dont think this is necessarily wrong and im not sure why there is discourse regarding that from the guest. As for alternatives, there are multiple levels of evidence a physician can chose from ranging from guidlines to rct to cohort to anecdotal evidence that the provider use depending on the case at hand plus the provider own experience which is besides this point.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

The criticism is just that Dr K doesn’t make it clear in any way in that entire 2 hour debate how Ayurveda individualises to each patient better than Western medicine. How is what he’s advocating for any different to 100% western medicine?

[@Dumbfudge1421]

@@meltedsnowman9637 i havent listened to the debate so I cant comment on that tbh.

[@templarknight7]

@@meltedsnowman9637 my understanding is that ayurveda tailors treatments specific to the individual. Western medicine doesn’t do this, but is moving in this direction. It’s why gene sequencing is becoming more common.

[@elproject3343]

You guys are making too much about Dr K. This tendency of wanting to idolize or hate peoples or label things as black or right, right or left, is tiresome .

[@valentinovazzoler]

Listening to the first minutes and clearly Avi has not idea about what he is talking. RCT is the gold standard but any statistician and doctor will tell you ( as Dr K said ) that they are not gospel as you need "the art of medicine" As of now it's more a statistical issue. Medical statistics is trying to develop a Personalized Medicine but we are not there yet.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

Avi never said RCTs are gospel. That wasn’t the criticism. The criticism was that Dr K said Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine, without even making it clear once how Ayurveda individualises care better than Western medicine.

[@andreasmelkersson3592]

@@meltedsnowman9637 Stop defending a clown, please.

[@ambientwave1659]

All I heard was I AM A SURGEON

[@aguspuig6615]

Hard to disagree with DrAvi when his pfp pops up looking like the gigachad lol

[@deadstrobe]

Destiny .. I’m not safe, but I’m not well.

[@Pipyboy]

HOLY YAP

[@msayed25]

I love that they call it "Western medicine".

[@yonaoisme]

it's a term coined to make it seem like "well you have your western medicine, we have our eastern medicine, no reason to prefer one over the other, it's just cultural brooo" but "western" medicine is not good because it is western, but because it is provably better by lightyears. there are no "eastern" vaccines, antibiotics, chemotherapy, ...

[@coreyander286]

Destiny didn't listen to the last 20 minutes of the Mike-K discussion? So he didn't hear Dr. K talk about consciousness turning into energy manifesting as material reality, or saying he attributed his social media success to a mantra (or maybe he said mandala)?

[@kaytee7607]

Would be neat to have gains vs dr.k in a debate on des’s channel

[@momomomongaa]

The different is that Vegan Gains medicine is being a debate lord and Dr K sound way less like a debate lord

[@Canada-_]

Oh my God I'm 5 minutes in I cannot handle these discord notifications my ADHD 😬😵‍💫😵‍💫

[@kidtruck9157]

Look, those making and studying medicines and treatments need to focus on groups and how they react to the treatment. A personal doctor needs to treat a person on an individual basis. Its not hard.

[@JackMSheridan]

6:54 doctors haven’t been doctors but walking prescription pads for big pharma so long this guy doesn’t even know where to begin😂😂😂

[@jodiegordon5559]

After 30 minutes, "Ok, well, anything else? Ok buddy, take care. Love you, bye!"

[@animagamer2]

I have no idea how this Avi guy could watch the podcast and come away thinking Dr.K wants to replace Western medicine with Arivada.

[@wongoli]

VeganGains calling someone else unhinged is just on another level lmao

[@Ms10000123]

A lot of health care comes down to aiding the body in fixing itself. I find that western medicine is too hyper fixated on treating specific conditions by themselves and often just gets lost in treating the biggest issue at hand. Great for specific conditions like cancer, not that great for vague conditions like IBS. Alternative medicine tends to look more at improving general health (in large part mental and dietary), making the body better at dealing with itself. I think alternative medicine is fine as long as it is in addition to western medicine dealing with the specific issues. In that sense, Dr K seems to be doing fine.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

How does alternative medicine improve general health better than Western medicine?

[@Ms10000123]

@@meltedsnowman9637 I don't think comparing the two with terms like 'better' is a productive way of looking at it. I think they are complementary because they have a different focus.

[@meltedsnowman9637]

@@Ms10000123 In what areas would alternative medicine + western medicine be better at improving general health than only western medicine?

[@Ms10000123]

​@@meltedsnowman9637 Did I not explain this in my original comment? Or do you need examples? An example would be reducing inflammation caused by everyday foods (not necessarily being an allergy). So when alternative seeks these out to exclude them, it can aid the body in dealing with other conditions. Sleep is another area where lots of gains can be made. Western medicine usually just looks at sleep apnea or tells people to sleep more, whilst alternative medicine can help with actually improving sleep for those that have trouble with it. Even just having a standard set of behavior (which rituals are) can help improving sleep and thus improving health. As a third example acupuncture can help relax tense muscles (legs or back for example), improving mobility for those that suffer from it. If that enables people to move around more, that is good for their health.

[@askers_]

The doctor K caller is in love with his own voice. This guy sniffs his own farts and gets hard from yapping.

[@christopherwillson]

Holy shit how long were you gonna let Avi talk without saying something

[@ImpulsiveLimbo]

I think Dr.k is right when saying individualized care could be better, or that doctors should expand their knowledge (I'm not even specifically saying looking into "spiritual" treatment). A lot of Western doctors look at patients as their tests or numbers vs the person/symptoms. Person comes in feeling like crap physically BUT their tests are normal/low normal they suggest coming back and doing blood work again in a few months. Instead of getting a big picture of all the symptoms while seeing low normal levels, and seeking other tests outside of the general CBC and vitamins. I personally have Graves disease and experience hair fallout, chronically under BMI, swollen thyroid, thyroid eye symptoms, fine hand tremors. I've been on and off medication for it since 2020, put on if my levels are below normal, taken off after a few months of normal levels. There is no discussion on other possible healthcare beyond numbers and pills. Is there food/diet/vitamins that can help with the weight loss, inflammatory response, or symptoms? Is exercise beneficial if there is chronic low BMI and risk of heart palpitations? Any discussion on things that can be done besides waiting for bad blood levels and pills?? I feel this is how it's not individualized.

[@ImpulsiveLimbo]

Also a disinterest in furthering education or understanding on health issues tied to their field in some ways. My partner's obgyn was condescending and dismissive when she was finally diagnosed with pelvic congestion syndrome from an ER visit. Chronic pelvic pain for years, at times bad enough to cause vomiting and stabbing pain. She's been seeing this obgyn since a teen and when she brought the ER paperwork he says "We all have veins sometimes they swell!" She tried to bring up there are procedures with 80% success of completely stopping the pelvic pain. He says "Only elderly women get surgery cosmetically for varicose veins". This doctor completely crapped on the idea of there being a condition tied to the same field and potential treatments from vascular specialists. As an obgyn why not further educate yourself on as many conditions that affect the pelvic area as you can? Even if it's the veins, you will have many people with the symptoms and rule out your expertise. At least you have the knowledge to refer patients. She could have been referred out to a vascular doctor for a simple vein embolism in the pelvis instead of being told to try another type of birth control, or different sex positions when it didn't help before.

[@withinfinite5104]

I can see the convo between Avi and DrK, and DrK is walking away from that looking better 100% of the time. DrK goes from general statements to specific ones on Ayurveda stuff so fast when pushed, it'll make Avi look like hes concern trolling him

[@SuperPerfectFGC]

I feel like Dr K's entire point was "isn't interesting Eastern medicine came up with meditation? Maybe there's something they're doing that western isn't and that's why it was missed". Idk why people are like "Dr K says you have an Earth spirit"

[@Nosa344]

First guy didnt finish watching the original video...

[@gabebitner4101]

This should have been on an even more far out there side channel. What is august up to latley. I dont feel like the quality it decision making is there lately

[@lordoflobsters7254]

Its funny to me seeing people make the same arguments and ask the same questions that dr k answered in the podcast episode, it really shows people dont actually watch content and base their views off their preconceptions and prejudices, just like the finkeldick debate.

[@Cumdown]

Dr K is getting a lot of heat the now Dr isnt being dishonest or sneaky with his advice, I think he is fine

[@japhalpha]

14:58 - Dan agrees with Dr. K

[@kittykickinyourface6220]

the first 8 mins i just stared at the chat it was so funny. avi ranting and the discord notifications where killing me

[@PlayableTengu]

These people blur the lines between bad faith and stupidity.