Destiny: My Thoughts on The Prison of Elders - A Review

[@MatrixMan400]

It looks like Bungie modeled this arena after the Warden of Nothing strike in Destiny 2: Forsaken. What a cool reference to Destiny 2

[@dorianvaughn4241]

This came before Warden of Nothing.

[@davida1229]

@@dorianvaughn4241 he was clearly ironic lmao

[@TwinBladeFury]

Just wait til the next DLC comes out and the level cap gets raised to 36. Skolas... I will not forget, and I certainly will never forgive.

[@tfbytslols8426]

BURN SKOLAS, BURN!!! JAJAJAJAJAJAJAKAJAKKAKAKAJAJ

[@TalonPlayss]

From what's been leaked in the new expansion the new base level (level you get from earning exp) is going to be raised from 20 to 40. So assuming that the light level will be 5 (base on what was leaked. All that isn't confirmed). But still, never forget. Skolas and HM Crota will be sorry they were even made.

[@TwinBladeFury]

TalonPlays HM Crota is already sorry. I make it a point to charge in there on my lonesome and shove that sword straight up his ass every week.

[@phantomninja01]

TalonPlays I think you mean the base level will be raised to 30. The max Light level won't be raised to 40 until the very last expansion.

[@TalonPlayss]

TwinBladeFury I always get killed by Boomers :(

[@charliebartlett5768]

Here is an idea for a checkpoint system If you get to, for example, Skolas then you get the Skolas Checkpoint, when you start up lvl 35 prison of elders you will be at Skolas. If another player wants to join you he/ she must also have the Skolas checkpoint or else it simply will not allow them to join. This means that if a member of your team disconnects at Skolas then they can just join back. If you need another player then they can join but they must have put in the work to get to Skolas before.

[@Zedonius666]

Skolas with arc burn. WTF dude, that just pissed me off. Did Bungie even playtest that shit?

[@Drethk-mj6ww]

Business Cat Inc. I agree, my team beat it with our main characters but trying to beat it with the classes we are not at 100% with makes it incredibly frustrating. My buddy and I agreed never to be hunters at the same time because of this... He mains a titan and I do best as a warlock.

[@phantomninja01]

Drethk 1289 Honestly I didn't find arc burn to be that much of a problem. As long as you have someone on constant Add duty, the non-major enemies aren't too much of a problem. Like Datto said, the biggest issue is that PoE just throws way too many major enemies at you, which end up being a bigger threat than the actual boss.

[@Fleischbart]

apotheos1s there are no majors in the skolas fight to my knowledge, it should be a walk in the park for you then

[@danis.9326]

I literally spent 3 hours on each character on Skolas. About 1 hour the first 5 rounds and 3 fucking hours on Skolas. Guess what on this week? Got Skolas mostly on first try, if not second, if not third.

[@raevenent751]

Business Cat Inc. Oh my fucking god that was the worst, Skolas with void burn this week just... UGH.. Not even going to touch 35 unless it's solar burn.

[@Jake-ob8rt]

Watching this again 5 years later, I absolutely loved POE, such a great time to be on Destiny, can still remember my first time killing Skolas and getting an elder cipher!

[@Ace-qo9sy]

Lol yea, taken king created a cheese start on skolas

[@TheFallenJ]

I think the main reason people just want to burn skolas is because he offers a very little reward for a very great effort. It took me with my team in our first 35 POE run around two hours to complete, at the end we gave up and cheesed that fucker down out of desperation. We finish VOG in both difficulties in less than two hours and the rewards are ten times better. Speaking of worthwhile rewards, The fallen weapons are shit even with a burn on them compared to the raid ones, a sniper with bonus damage to dregs, WTF?!

[@slikross9184]

TheFallenJ Completely agree with you ive done skollas every week with all my characters and i still don't have an elder cipher or the fallen elemental primaries however in trials of osiris i have the messenger summoner and jewel adept so crucible is the way to go in this dlc.

[@GiftedBuddist69]

TheFallenJ I got a sniper with bonus damage to shanks haha. wtf how useful is that ever going to be?

[@slikross9184]

GiftedBuddist69 Lol that sniper will make you unstoppable now.

[@Lowtan]

Try a rocket launcher with dreg burn... gee thanks Variks.

[@Xn2th3blue]

TheFallenJ The only fallen weapon I've gotten that is pretty useful is the Shadow of Veils sniper. Very good stats, arc damage, and mine rolled with the ability to suppress fallen captain abilities. I agree with you on most of them. Shank burn...seriously? lol The only perks as far as Fallen-specific weapons goes that seem useful are the fallen captain one, and the one to deal moderate bonus damage to all fallen enemies. The rest? No thanks. lol

[@moxshyfter]

Completely agreed on every point. There's also a less important thing that bothers me about it - the whole Prison of Elders itself just comes off as lazy. I know a lot of people raged when Bungie announced that there would be no new raid on HOW, and rightfully so. Outside of strikes and random pvp, there's not much else to do in the end game. But, I tried to be open minded about the Prison of Elders concept up until the release. Whatever fun or challenge you may have in PoE isn't the issue here. My point is that rather than having a new zone, new story, or even new enemies, they basically gave players really durable punching bags using enemies we've all seen for months now, and sets it IN the social space like you're just in training mode. I know this is a very picky gripe, but having a sense that you're taking down massively threatening raid boss that is wreaking havoc in the world is awesome. Taking down a really thick training dummy that was already incarcerated feels way less important and you're just left to rely on the loot as a reason for even doing the content...

[@Sully5443]

I like some of the suggestions for the Skolas fight, but here are a couple of others I have in mind. Personally I'd rather the final two mechanics (devouring essence and mines) not stack on each other, so here is what I suggest: For the first quarter of Skolas health bar, utilize the servitor mechanic, but increase the buff time from 20 seconds to 25 or 30 seconds (although 20 might still be appropriate for burn modifiers) The second quarter should revolve solely around the devouring essence and keep the mechanics the same For the third quarter, remove the essence and have Skolas send in a critical target elimination to deal with before returning your attention to the boss For the fourth and final quarter, utilize the mines once again before returning your attention to the boss

[@Sully5443]

Sully5443 also, an addendum, when the buff appears from destroying the servitor, if the buff must last only 20 seconds, then skolas should not be allowed to teleport during that time- you can't always bank on staggering him to negate that property. Once he teleports, that is a precious 1- 2 seconds of DPS you lose on him for that stage

[@JayMaldo78]

This is (in my opinion) the most accurate, well thought, and best explained review of PoE. Great job man. Bungie is good at hearing us and I think there will be some changes coming to the Prison soon.

[@steveminla]

AGREED! I'm so glad you mentioned the checkpoint issue! Not everyone has that amount of time to finish POE in one sitting. Hopefully with some tweaks it won't be so bad. Nice video...thanks for the upload!

[@nannyvarmint5341]

The inconsistency of the eye and the adds on qodron are exactly why we decided to melt him at the start. First time we got him to half health, but for the next hour or so we could barely manage everything and still get the eye in time. I believe it would be beneficial if the put a target over the eye's head like in the eliminate the target rounds so we know where to focus. I agree with everything you said.

[@_buns_]

Someone needs to count the amount of times Datto said "Major" and "Mechanics in this video. Great analysis Datto. Good job releasing this type of video so soon hopefully Bungie fixes some of these issues in a future update.

[@DCrosby85]

An absolutely spot on review! Some times the fear of moving to an instakill means you opt to go for the easy ghorn kill as against playing the game as it is designed, however I do like how the ghorn has been less effective on skolas the last week or so with ark and now void burns, gives people that are still suffering to the rng a chance!

[@flora4402]

DattoDoesDestiny My and my Lv 34 friends spent 5 hours doing the Skolas boss fight, as I had to leave for a trip the next day. We eventually gave up as the fights were waaaay too hard and we never got Skolas below half-health, even with ascended weaponry, and on top of all that we couldn't just leave and come back the next day because: no checkpoints. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about and hope your video gets enough support that Bungie decide to change it themselves. Good Luck!

[@ddsix6]

Hey Mr. Datto, I have been following you for quite some time and love your educated, patient and honest analysis... I have been working on a post for Gjallerhorn and i think it relates to this PoE review. I hope you get a chance to read it...its copied from bungie forum and posted below.. Community feel free to comment! First I want to start by saying bungie is amazing - the treasure key changes show how much they are in tune with community and no game (like ever) has made adjustments for the player base so quickly. That reaction has prompted me to voice this opinion as I know bungie is listening! I am an 29 years old with a graduate degree. I fell in love with the gunplay of halo 2 in 2004. It's like a knife through butter. That polished refined experience is spewing through destiny and I'm addicted to exploding heads. I used to be a gamer. Now all my needs are satisfied with destiny. Perfect? No. But definitely unmatched and extraordinary. I said my age because it has been tough to find a stable group to play with 100io and reddit have definitely helped! But nothing compared to plain old having friends your age that still play. EVERY time I go to destinylfg. For the high end exhilarating end game content there is huge discrimination against us non gjally owners. People post gjally only. And if you don't have one they threaten to kick you(with good cause, the gun is a beast vs bosses). Destiny prides itself on giving the player options but gjally is partly destroying that option because it's so strong. It's probably a programming nightmare because it's hard to make a boss hard enough so it can't be gjally cheesed. But not too hard where the gjally-less guardians would find the content cumbersome. Just before people boot me for not having gjally, they give advice such as - go do some raids...then I go to destiny tracker and realize I have 88 raid clears and this guy has less than 30. I know there are more people with much worse stories. It's disheartening. But I am not here to complain I am here with suggestions!!! Maybe these can even be considered on the next balance patch!! 1) buff other exotic rockets - dragon breath is excellent when it connects but the velocity makes that difficult. Grenades&horseshoes or tracking would make this weapon truly exotic! Truth's 9 rockets vs gjally 7 is no comparison in total damage. ... Why not buff truths damage or increase rockets in reserve. These sorts of changes would make all exotic rockets viable options. 2) nerf Wolfpack rounds - if Wolfpack damage got cut by 50~75% it gjally would still be the single most devastating weapon but it would make other options more competitive such as H.O.C., icebreaker and shotguns. This is not to make the gun unfun but to discourage the need for discrimation. 3) reduce gjally reserve ammo size - this is probably unrealistic but this is a different way to give truth and other 3 in tube rockets ways to catch up to gjally in damage output. 4) more HoC like weapons. - HoC was an awesome addition. With the hive disruptor perk and the extra explosions, it could really rival gjallly. More weapons like these with fallen, vex and cabal disruptor would probably solve the problem!! 5) making very strong weapons like gjally available to everyone- the xur gjally thing is interesting. I had 22 coins the first time he sold it :(. And I just know the next time he does I will happen to be out of town. Gjally is fun. For sure it's amazing to watch my fire team mates completely change fights with that beast. I think HoW has done a great job of dialing back random and making things more skill based. The community loves it from what I've seen!! Unfair is discouraging. Why not keep hyper strong weapons. But make them attainable through hard work and/or skill such as nechrochasm and thorn. 6) I have gotten more than 4 thunderlords, dragons and truths each. Maybe we could trade exotics in?????10 exotics for 1 of your choice maybe??? Maybe if you beat all endgame on hard for the week (raids, weekly AND PoE) you get a token fragment which you could accumulate and buy an exotic of your choice? Thanks for reading! Even if I get my gjally on tonight's nightfall. I hope these changes can be considered. I have played vanilla and 2 expansions of content just looking for groups that can love me for me and see past my gjally deficiencies lol. I'm secretly hoping gjally does not carry forward into year 2. And if it does I hope some of the suggestions above or something similar is considered. Bungie, if you haven't, Please go as a solo on destiny lfg and try to get a 34/35 PoE going and see what the experience is like. Amazed at the growth of the game and the fact that this much community engagement is even possible. Looking forward to the surprises to come. Tl:dr - Some possible suggestions for PVE weapon balancing!

[@Auroh]

I agree totally with all of the points you made, the biggest problem my friends and I have are the adds and how many there are. It only *adds* (no pun intended) to the level of frustration that burn modifiers bring. Taking away the burns would make the fight go a lot smoother, and let people create real strategies instead of, "You need this many of this class with this weapon and these perks." Skolas is so frustrating because of the mine doesn't spawn right next to you, running across the room to dismantle mines is nearly a death sentence because of how many adds there are, multiplied by the fact that just a few shots from adds will utterly destroy you.

[@shaynewspence]

I agree with about 90% of your thoughts in this video, my only point of disagreement would be the Servitors during the Fallen boss fight. My team has had a lot of success running Defender/Sunsinger/Gunslinger during this fight, and using the Servitors as a way to generate orbs for our Titan to use Weapons of Light as quickly as possible. A Gunslinger with Celestial Nighthawk can take a level 35 Servitor down from about 1/3 health, so it is not too much of an ammo burn to use this strategy. Hopefully this will change your mind about that one part!

[@tripaulyd1]

I agree with you on all points Datto. I have yet to fight Skolas as I hear about the adds problem and the OHK problem with most of the high level boss fights. Not sure if any changes will be made to address any of these issues but it's all we have for now. My clan is really falling apart without a new raid and PoE is a big part of that problem. Maybe they should have made PoE a 6 man activity or at least an option.

[@Riviera501]

Great commentary, Datto. Agreed on all points. PoE is fun, except for a few boss fights, where adds plus under-level plus boss mechanic sucks all the fun out of the experience. At level 33, my fireteam worked, strategized, and willed ourselves to Quodron. Once facing the mighty Q, we banged our heads against that wall you describe, and eventually gave up after an hour and a half. We left feeling frustrated at the unfair mechanics and the disadvantage of being one level lower.

[@cacheclear]

I have never found myself agreeing with your analysis videos before, but this is all dead on. Great job.

[@DafyddWillz]

Bungie! Watch This! I agree with almost everything in this, but I do have a solution for a checkpoint system that could probably be implemented for the raids as well; instead of going to the checkpoint of whoever the fireteam leader is, you should go to the earliest checkpoint that someone in the fireteam has. Lets say that the leader has a wave 5 checkpoint, and the other two have wave 4 and wave 3 checkpoints; instead of going to wave 5 they'd go to wave 3 since that is the earliest checkpoint.

[@burns0100]

Dafydd Williams Get ready for LFG trolls saying they have wave 5 when people are looking for a someone to replace a teammate who got dropped.

[@UiRapist]

Dafydd Williams Say you're at last checkpoint and one of your buddies leaves. Then you get a fresh player with no checkpoint, sending the whole fireteam to start fresh because the new guy has no checkpoints.

[@xDetentionz]

Dafydd Williams start up the game without anyone with u then just invite them and you have a wave 5 checkpoint

[@JacksonPRONNESS99]

To prevent LFG trolls, they could add a system where you can choose any checkpoint, up to the highest checkpoint you reached until you have completed the encounter. This refreshes when you complete it, so you can't keep going to the final wave after completion.

[@Lowtan]

Awful idea. I didn't spend my time getting to the boss to be set back 3 rounds.

[@121212yowza]

Very Balanced and honest analysis, None of the Elitist crap....One of your best videos Datto...you got a fan back.

[@sovietmudkip1]

I completely agree about the majors. Qudron was a massive pain in the ass because 90% of the time your team is looking for the eye or trying to survive against the hobgoblins instead of fighting the boss. The fact that there is so many Majors makes having a Ghorn kind of a necessity for most groups. There is no way to deal with massive groups of majors that can massacre your team in less than 5 seconds total.

[@burns0100]

Hink Halll Fun fact, stay in a group on the right side of the map in the corner and two eyes will spawn out of the back right door next to the boss platform and you only need to kill one for one guy to break everyone free or you can still break free without the buff, it just takes 6-7 shotgun shots. You can also clear enough enemies that they stop spawning for a while and you can then focus on the boss. People just panic to much instead of learning spawns, waves and safe locations.

[@RypienGT]

I agree with most of what you had to say, although i do actually like the 'burn mods'. Its does drastically effect gameplay, but it allows players to deck out their character with a variety of gun/armor combo's each round depending on the modifier. I like having to change up my player each round, makes me use items that might not normally get a go in other playlists.

[@SadSackGaming]

You make some very solid points and I agree with you. My impression of the Prison of Elders is that if you took the level 32 and just scaled it up, it would function well. 34 and 35 are what I would call, and you described, tedious. I still haven't beaten Skolas and until they figure out how to turn the 34 and 35 into something less than the current just keep throwing nonsense at the player, I have no interest in even playing at those levels. I am with you, I like a challenge. There are still times when Vault of Glass can be a complete pain in the ass if one person just happens to be drunk or does something stupid like back off a cliff. I look at it as any prize I get not being worth the time and resources invested. I like the concept behind the prison. You go in, prove yourself worthy to the warden or joe or whoever is in charge and in theory, you get rewarded. That's great, but once you wander into 34 and 35, you wonder if they just had a monkey pulling out handfuls of little folded up pieces of paper and whatever he pulled out, all of it went in. I know, let's do arc damage with fallen. Let's have it so captains and belch and kill you instantly. What bummed me out is that besides Control in Crucible, the other game modes are completely against my play style and are painful for me to play. So I avoid them, which means that something like Trials is not going to happen. Then you have this lunacy and two chunks of the DLC are not going to be touched much. I am not complaining about that as a, well they didn't give me more of what I want, but more of a disappointment that the focal point of the DLC depends on you wanting to play those specific things. I know a raid is coming down the pipe at some point and am more than fine upgrading armors and guns, but am just bummed out by the way the DLC went. Etheric Light, that should be dropped in raids and even as a potential in crucible or the weekly heroic strikes. I don't say this because I am desperate for a level 34 character. I have two and a third that could be a 34 if I bothered using the junk I have to do it. My annoyance about the lack of etheric light is that Bungie said they wanted us to be able to be individuals when it comes to our gear and then took the thing that would allow that and put stipulations on how to get it. I was never worried about getting to 34, that would happen. The grind was already known for getting to 30 and then 32. I just wanted to be able to have the loadout I wanted when playing the game. Like for Iron Banner, I took a level hit simply because as a hunter, I prefer discipline and strength since I play ninja more than I play samurai. So I max out my grenades and blink strike. I just think that maybe once you hit level 34, they would provide more opportunities for customizing yourself. Maybe they will in the next update, who knows. Oh, and only 2 side arms currently? Throw me another one!

[@SilverSurfer17]

Spot on and I agree there are way too many adds and majors for the vex and fallen. I do alright in the vex arena. I have some hiding spots that keep me safe but the fallen arena is a lot more challenging with captains chasing you into wire rifle shots

[@burns0100]

Eric Farris Every arena has about 2-3 safe(ish) area's, with a team that used zero communication last week and this week we manages to beat each level in good time with few deaths. Adds spawn in waves, waves you can clear out and if you focus fire you really don't have trouble. Ive learnt the spawn location of the mines, VIP and where each set of adds come from. its a walk in the park for me this week.

[@djadja6357]

@burns0100 we get it bro you're wicked awesome at the game... Stop blowing smoke up your own ass... LITERALLY No one thinks you're as cool as you think you are.

[@burns0100]

***** lol... alright mate, whatever. I was just sharing my experience, deal with it.

[@puma21puma21]

Less adds during the vex room and Skolas would greatly improve the quality of PoE.

[@flora4402]

puma21puma21 I think zero burns for Skolas and you ar right about Quodron, tho my team didn't have much trouble

[@taruanshqaumi8557]

Well said, another maybe for skolas can be that instead of mines you have 6 servators you have to take down and then introduce skolas into the fight with his shields down. Just an idea but great vid

[@DeadNightLife]

DattoDoesDestiny I agree, during the time of the first raid we didn't have all the best gear that we do now. We relied on who was best skill for each issue. My roll during the Templar was the relic. Being predominant Warlock class I was best suited (for my group) because of radiance. Even if I died I could self res and continue with my roll allowing my team to fight the Templar. I've been playing since day one and still have yet to get a G-horn. (Yes that drive me nuts) and with the best ways to kill a boss without cheesing is to have high level power. Personal I hate it when my team spends most of the time reviving each other. I would rather work a puzzle in some light combat vs hordes of enemy that can kill me with just the splash damage.

[@Flashmam]

The fight with Skolas was so much more enjoyable with void burn this week, we couldn't just nuke him so we did all the elements of the fight and it was still difficult but much much MUCH funner

[@danis.9326]

I don't know about you but you couldn't nuke him with arc either. I prefer Void a lot more over Arc.

[@thedirtymarc]

Excellent analysis, totally agree. The Qodron fight isn't much fun as it stands, and I'm not levelled up enough for Skolas yet but it looks to have similar issues. Bungie would do well to heed your thoughts on balancing.

[@deathcomes4all353]

I go back-and-forth on the checkpoint situation.I don't think there should be any checkpoints I only say this because people on the LFGs are only looking for the Boss fights. So what stops people on LFG from stealing a checkpoint from somebody who has done all the hard work.

[@DattoDoesDestiny]

DEATHCOMES4ALL That's why I'm so iffy on them as well.

[@danis.9326]

Those guys are lazy assholes. If I happen to find someone with CP, I kindly message them but people on LFG just go and ask straight up for checkpoint in the fucking same day of the reset. I do agree with you on this but it did happen to one of my fireteam members that PSN disconnected him just as we killed Skolas and by a fucking coincidence in that same match, just as I was entering the chest room, my power went out. Spent at least 1 and a half hour trying to get Skolas and when I just did, I got fucked.

[@norskfilmmafia]

DEATHCOMES4ALL DattoDoesDestiny What if there was a "tier" system for the loot at the end? So if you only compleeted the boss you could only get lower grade gear, and only by compleeting all the waves would you unlock the chance for the highest possible gear? This way checkpoints are all fine and dandy because if you havent done it all legit you dont get the good shit

[@jakeg677]

DattoDoesDestiny Couldn't they just make it so you can't pass a checkpoint to another person and the 1 or 2 people who join you to help can't open the queens chest at the end? This way if you lose a guy or two, you can ask a FRIEND to come help you beat the boss, not just some random from LFG that's looking for quick loot.

[@pureego1553]

Echos a lot of my feelings, my first experience with skolas was the arc burn, my group and I spent 3 hours trying to play the mechanics of the fight. All that ever happened was we scrambled to stay alive and kill adds, leaving us no room to hit the boss at all, or we tried to do some damage to the boss and would lose a member to the adds, and be scrambling for the bombs and the devouring essence. We finally just did the patience and time nuke strat and were done in about twenty minutes, at which point we started with that strat on alternative characters and wrapped up in less than hour the next day. Don't think anyone could blame us either.

[@anagitatedfrog271]

Today we were doing 35, we had finished- weapons and elder bounties had dropped. However, at the end one of our team-mates died and instead of him getting auto revived (if that feature was in) the two of us alive were teleported to the main room. We killed ourselves inside the airlock but the treasure room had opened and we were instead left as ghosts. No weapon/armour core or chest opening, and no way around this situation. WOULD LIKE IT IF BUNGIE FIXED THIS ASAP AS THIS WAS VERY FRUSTRATING

[@lindojz1523]

I tend to disagree with you on certain topics but your views on qodron are spot on. My fire team last night had to resort to the bubble and gally burn strat to kill him on 32. There were just far too many adds to take care of and we couldn't find/kill the eye before we got shielded.

[@lindojz1523]

lindo jz It also irritates me because while they added a new mechanic which is awesome, it still the terrible and lazy design of giant boss with lots of health and continuous adds. Why is every single boss made this way?

[@ApieceofWoods]

Datto, Bungie issued a Hot Fix today that actually addresses a good amount of the issues you've mentioned with mechanics, along with treasure keys. They increased drop rates of treasure keys in every section, and also guarantee you one with every first bounty completed, and they nerfed Qodron's gaze and buffed jailbreaker some more.

[@Kodebykaos]

I agree with most of the points you made. I beat Qodron twice once in 30 min, and a second time in about 2 hours. RNG eye spawn, adds and way too many majors would negate any strategy. But when it worked as expected it was a hell of a lot of fun.

[@AndrewRedskin]

Awesome video. And this is why I do not do POE above 32 , there is no reason. POE is fun and I want it to stay that way . 34 and 35 is not fun and u summed up everything that makes those higher levels not fun.

[@ID12399]

I totally agree with you on this video! The adds in the arena are making it so I don't want to go back...

[@lsfaraone]

And regarding checkpoints, perhaps make it so you can come back, but the cp expires for the team after you come back.

[@norskfilmmafia]

So just an idea from my part on the checkpoint system. For every wave you complete it is counted up like the checkpoints are in the raid now. But if you just join a skolas checkpoint and dont have the other waves completed then the final loot is very nerfed, you dont get the etheric light and the cores but mabye only rep and low tier rewards. The more waves you have completed the better the loot gets at the end and only by having all waves completed you can get the max rewards (etheric light, wep/armor core, max rep, exotics so on and so forth). This is just my take on it. Mabye its useful?

[@cryptichusk3r]

omg seriously?? Now everyone crying that something is TOO HARD in Destiny? GEEZ! You people will NEVER be satisfied and ALWAYS find something to cry about!! Datto bro ive watched a TON of ur videos and you do an amazing job, but in all honesty bro this one disappointed me because i never thought I would ever see you make a video complaining the something was TOO Challenging. :( I loved all ur videos about different crazy attempts of killing crota. This is just breaks my heart bro lol. BTW if theres TOO MANY mini bosses in the rooms and you know theyre gonna be there, then heres an easy fix. DO NOT leave the air lock chamber until everyone has fully loaded gjally's and able to use a heavy synth. Shit thats 12-14 gjally rockets per person right there!!!

[@moonkoto]

Are you stupid? Did you even watch the video?

[@cryptichusk3r]

DattoDoesDestiny ok bro thanks for the reply, and i hope u werent offended by what i said. Ive just seen u do some crazy stuff in this game and Ive alway kind of modeled my titan after ur setup. :) Much respect to u bro.

[@Xn2th3blue]

CrypticHusk3r Gaming About your last couple sentences...so you're saying that the best way to go about half of the rounds in any PoE arena is to sit in the air lock and wait 5+ minutes for ammo synths....for each attempt? You're saying that the best tactic is to just stand around and do nothing for 50% of your total time spent in the arena, because that's the best available strategy? Do you not see how bad the game design is if that is the "best strategy?" Datto made very good points, and I basically agree with everything that he said. A video game is supposed to be challenging yet fun. Prison of Elders is certainly challenging. Fun? Definitely not...more like a chore. I've lost almost all motivation to do PoE already...and we are in what, the third week of the DLC? That is sad. TDB was not a very good DLC, but I wanted to keep playing because the raid was challenging AND fun. The same cannot be said about HoW and the arenas.

[@cryptichusk3r]

Darude - Sandstorm well u could dance, point, and wave for 5 minutes. xD Look Im just saying, we all load this game up and play it over and over and over. For what? Im mean the very definition over insanity, is repetitively performing the same act, over and over expecting different results. Such as us players that keep buying the DLCs expecting things to change. lol the DLC is just a small portion of new content and its only 20 bucks. What do u really expect for 20 bucks on a next gen console? I think for 20 bucks and the content we did get was worth it. Of course theres tweaks that could make it better. But thats ALWAYS gonna happen.

[@organizedConfoosion]

CrypticHusk3r Gaming No one is saying anything is *too* hard, we're saying it's hard for the wrong reasons. You must not have watched the video.

[@glasscasket3929]

Very well articulated. I hope The developers see this review. I think it would provide them with some great insight that is generally held by the community. Thank you for putting this in-depth review together.

[@RagnarokMasta]

You give a fair assessment of PoE, but I have a couple issues. One, I do think a certain level of fear should be prevalent. That is why I do think they make everything so chaotic. The Quodron fight in particular. An enemy wouldn't just wait for you to get into. They are trying to kill you, so sending overwhelming force to cripple you is the same as you bursting them down with superior firepower. They also have less abilities than you, offering less in the way of counteracting your strategies. Though I know that this type of gameplay can be frustrating to some, I like gritting my way through armies with friends. My second point is the mentality that complex mechanics necessarily offer more fun than battles of attrition. That is where the MMO mentality I've seen come up in your raid/strike summary vids. Most MMO players are fine with complex mechanics that they can run through over and over comfortably, with a modicum of difficulty by adding more layers. The reasoning why Bungie hovers in the medium of mechanics and crazy add torture. Adding too many or too involved mechanics is tiresome on their part because it's more work for something that inevitably gets cheesed through and/or requires additional patching or padding to work on to please players. While no mechanics just make the fights bullet sponge fests akin to the enemy fighting each other on patrols. Raid mechanics are good, but only in lighter bits. Lots of people love the Vault, I find the mechanics just annoying to go through and enjoyed the faster paced action of Crota as something to bring the team together. Prison gets those juices flowing just as well without it become a stagnant routine. Offering too many mechanics makes a fight a routine checklist, even if they are hard. And routine fights are the reason raids aren't my cup of tea in MMOs (the other reason being assholish "elite" players who can't be bothered to help teach people being way too prevalent), it's not fun, it's work and is often treated like work. It's not perfect, but I think Bungie working in the medium of overwhelming opposition and lighter mechanics is the way to go with this game.

[@IceLanternTV]

I pretty much agree with everything stated. The burn strategies are almost a necessary evil because you really just want to circumvent the craziness you would otherwise face. As a result, you have to make sure that you have all the right tools for the encounters. If void burn is up, people will only want people with high-end snipers, shotguns and/or rocket launchers. But really my main problem with PoE is that some of these encounters are just no fun because of all the damage flying your way.

[@DallMyD3lvis]

This is a great video I completely agree that their are way to many majors ultras and adds that distract you from the real fight and the burns can be annoying for people that haven't acquired multiple elemental weapons. They should for sure add checkpoints just like every other PvE game mode has save points.

[@badrmans]

Where are the q&a's and the solo nightfalls datto ? Not pressuring you but I just really enjoy watching them.

[@aniketchoudhary1925]

Datto review is on point!! Looking foward to more reviews like this.

[@ericmcgregor7723]

I totally agree with you on all issues... I tried for about 8 straight hours with different randoms to try to take down Scolas and still couldn't get it done. It was always a shank or a captain just spamming you with a relentless barrage of bullets.

[@ryanbooth9292]

Maybe the "Quodron's Eye" could have the same kind of marker on it as the Ether Chests? Would make it a lot easier to see...

[@TheMLGTrashCompactor]

I feel like if you remove the burns, then balance skills health, then presto. Fun battle with cool mechanics. You just die to quickly to incorporate any decent strategy.... its kind broken tbh. I hope they improve Skolas. The Hive guy that burns the floor is SUPER fun! they nailed that one!

[@wcarrollx]

Great review! I agree with you completely. I've been not even wanting to keep playing POE for these exact reasons. Also, the lack of checkpoints just pisses me off! The way for Bungie to have POE checkpoints and prevent people from joining boss fights without doing the other rounds, is for them to verify that you also have the checkpoint. i.e. If you only made it to round three and want to pick up where you left off. You can only join others with the same checkpoint. That seems like pretty simple logic to me, so WTF bungie! I've been playing non-stop since Dark Below and POE has really made me want to rage quit. It comes down to is the one-two hours of frustrating gameplay even worth the rewards. NOPE, not to me!!

[@sxnclair154]

They need to look at the loot situation for Skolas. Skolas is a very fun encounter, if you don't use borderline cheese burn strats and actually overcome the objectives. However, Skolas offers very little in the way of loot, the elemental primaries are not as good as old raid weapons and the queen's wrath weapons are just mediocre. Loot from Skolas' Revenge needs to be looked at or people will just flat out stop playing it.

[@heillinga]

Sinclair They've fixed issues with the Elder Cipher not dropping from him, so that's a slight fix I guess since it's an exotic at the end of it.

[@CantankerousCon]

oabazhukov using a weapon in the game is not cheese, but finishing an encounter in 30 seconds while avoiding any and all mechanics sure as sh*t is.

[@phageling9949]

A cheese is to play the game using a method that wasnt planned to be used by the developers. Im sure bungie knew exactly what was gonna happen when they put solar burn on their final boss

[@sxnclair154]

Phage ling Well then they're bigger idiots than I give them credit for, I mean why the fuck would they do that? Hurr durr week 1 of our fancy new boss let's make it possible to kill him in 30 seconds! Can't fathom it.

[@phageling9949]

+Sinclaire i partially agree with u. Everyone knows in the destiny community that if u have ghorn with solar burn its a frigging death star. Bungie has to know that. On the other hand i have to wonder if it was bungies idea of rewarding its continuous players. The large majority of people that have played the game since day one have all the exotics including ghorn now. But new players looking for something to strive for have possibly now gotten hooked on the idea that they need ghorn and will play more to get it.

[@TwilightLinkHero310]

I totally agree with everything, which is one of the reasons why I don't play PoE too often. It's great, but it suffers from some serious issues. I also find the Cabal room to be just as frustrating as the Fallen and Vex rooms. The Hive room is great though. The reasons why I find the Cabal room is just simply because of adds, not the majors. There are just too many adds firing at you from all over the place in the Cabal room in my opinion.

[@SpookyTanukiGaming]

I agree with everything you've said but I want to add something. The random teleports also add to the inconsistent chaos that makes fights unfair and annoying. Just today I've had teammates teleported during the Qodron boss fight into either a group of enemies that mow them down or during detainment bubbles where players were still damaged by the bubbles but couldn't get to it to destroy it. I guess the point is to prevent idle players but the encounters are difficult enough where you need all players active. Or if the point is to prevent camping then that also fails because the swarms of ads make it impossible to really move around. Sometimes we get teleported even if we are moving. It's just a poorly done mechanic that serves no purpose other than unfair difficulty.

[@Sam13rown]

The problem I have with the Qodron fight is that only the dude who gets the last shot on the eye gets the buff even if you team shot it. Then everyone has to gather together for a chance to survive, but you'll get killed by the 5744 hobs. If all guardians get the buff it will be a fun fight.

[@raularellanes4101]

Datto I was wondering what you think about having to still having to disarm the mines even though skolas is dead.

[@BlueStar72]

The Cabal boss and the Hive boss have the right idea. They add interesting dynamics that don't punish you for trying to be cautious and survive. The others forcibly fling you into extreme danger, to the point where it seems that the only consistent way of beating the encounter is to quickly downing the boss before the mechanics/adds set in. The critical objectives and the hunt for the Eye of Qodron are a bit cruel when everything is already so lethal to begin with. (Devouring Essence is A-OK in my book, though!) Not saying these mechanics shouldn't exist, per se; they do add something new to the encounters... But everything else in those fights--specifically the adds and modifiers--should be properly balanced around them to prevent it from just being a miserable experience. And I must agree that either the amount of Majors needs to be scaled back, or their extreme health/shields needs to be nerfed. The former seems optimal for encouraging team play to bring specific targets down.

[@akiokono3487]

Datto are you going to be doing community runs like with the raids, I'm curious cuz I'm a fan and have learned a lot from this channel. But at the same time you did the first timer runs back during VoG and a lot of people are getting stuck on skolas and end up having their groups disband myself included.

[@hainum23]

I wholeheartedly agree with you :) Gjallahorn strats take the satisfaction out of the boss fight.

[@pcuimac]

Very very good thoughtfull review! No wonder Bungie did not invite you for the livestreaming of PoE, but Prof Bromann. You really produce high quality content.

[@KevinMichael]

Nice review I definitely think some of these things need to be changed. I think removing burns altogether would be beneficial. Review the trials of Osiris next I would love to hear what you have to say about that mess

[@FreightTrain54]

What about those patches! They were awesome, you should definitely do a vid on that! (Unless you have and I missed it )

[@burns0100]

FreightTrain54 Agree, this video is over shadowed by Bungies Patch. It has some amazing things. My fav is the fact you can get the class item from 32 and 34 now. I got it first go! and I had like over 50 of them tokens so I got some good rep then.

[@oOxiDEz]

Can you do a video on whether people should ascend their old raid gear? Is it worth it?

[@ZTLSC2]

I enjoy going back to play VoG more than any other activity Destiny has to offer. Trials of Osiris has my friends and I in PvP again though. It's a close second. Got 6 flawless cards filled. Waiting on Friday again.

[@jeremylittlejohn2597]

THANK YOU datto, it's about time someone actually admitted the obvious. I couldn't agree more with all of your points. The prisons are an endless nightfall, with terrible rewards, how is that fun? I enjoy a 20 minute nightfall, but not one that never ends. Give me a checkpoints and some better rewards and I might be inclined to play them again. Otherwise I'm already done with it.

[@TheArby913]

One thing I do not understand about Prison of Elders is why do they have matchmaking in level 28 but not the other levels?

[@DylBoy5]

I have to agree,me and my friends tried to do the lvl 32 (yes we are still not lvl 34 :p) and round 4 with the important target was a complete joke. So many majors of minotaurs and hobgoblins we just gave up.

[@hexahedronhead7516]

I don't have a ton of PoE experience, but I really hate when I'm last guardian standing, reviving my teammate on the final part of a boss fight, when the game decides it would add to the fun if I was randomly teleported into a crowd of enemies. This is something that really needs to change IMO

[@ricecakejohnson]

damn Datto, you're on a roll, that's two for two that I actually have to agree with you on. I told my teammates this on the first week when I was doing nothing but running for my life in the PoE level 35(solar burn). Not sure how Bungie thought we would enjoy that, and def do not see the "fun" in that. This is why most people would rather cheese Skolas rather then playing this game the right way cause its not fun when you are constantly running away just to be alive cause almost everything in the game can almost one shot you

[@codawoda3077]

honestly I agree with u 110%. the prison is fun, the mechanics are fun, but the never ending majors that spawn and cause u to waste all of ur ammo takes away from the fun in the rest of he encounters

[@chuckiej]

Could the fact that the servitors aren't worth killing be part of the "puzzle" of that fight? I've only done twice but even in those two it didn't seem worth it.

[@phageling9949]

Its funny that there are 2 crowds. One desperate for them to nerf the challenges of the game and the other clammoring for harder fights. Must be hard to be in bungie's spot right now. Love ur videos man!

[@Bluemansonic]

I still have not even attempted Skolas yet but I really want to...

[@flora4402]

JTAC Bluemansonic Hey bro! Skolas is really hard, so I suggest ascending and training with two of your best teammates beforehand

[@Bluemansonic]

Wimpikid333 I'm not gonna fight him until I get my Titan to 34 (I've got my Warelock/main and my Hunter/second both to 34)

[@flora4402]

good idea

[@flora4402]

Can I join you? I have Xbox 360, gamertag: BG Written MLP

[@andrewdickinson2985]

Still scratching my head over this week's void burn too. But I'll take it!

[@GeneralGray8]

Maybe to solve the checkpoint issue bungie could implement a new item to let you resume your progress like say you stopped on room 3 it gives you the option to resume your fight and have these items universal so other people could help you if need be(like u find a random with the same item) seem like it would fix the matchmaking problem

[@DerultimativeOzzy]

I think when it comes to checkpoints, they simply should only allow players to join if they also have that checkpoint. ( or push everyone back to the closest checkpoints if they have them. like lets say some people have checkpoint 4 and one has just checkpoint 2, they all go to checkpoint 2.) When it comes to Major mobs, I think they should bring in armour and weapons that are similar to what the Crotas End raid weapons have. A disruptor that makes bonus damage on majors.

[@pivotFAIL24]

killing a servitor in the pilot servitor boss fight should grant you a damage buff with a +25% damage buff to damage on the boss, and while the damage buff for each servitor may stack it should have have a diminishing effect per servitor, such as 25 after first serivtor, 20 after the second then 10 and reaching a minimum of 5%

[@Ch4pp13]

i have a little grudge on one of the final rooms in the normal PoE (i don't have anyone to play with, so i can't get any armor/weapon cores and elder ciphers that you need to get the FUCKING NEW EXOTICS THAT ARE SO FUCKNG COOL!). it's the overmind minotaur. almost every single time i have played through PoE, i have battled against this giant monstrosity while being attacked by goblins, harpies, hobgoblins, an occational minotaur and the torch hammer shots from the boss itself. i have played against the cabal boss twice, the fallen boss i think three times, god knows how many fights against that minotaur and never have i fought against the hive boss. i think it will just be an ogre anyway.

[@baduser103]

punch3870 The hive boss is a Oversized boomer knight call " Wretched Knight ".

[@flora4402]

punch3870 I'll play with you. I have Xbox 360, gamertag: BG Written MLP

[@Ch4pp13]

i'm on ps4 btw. i don't see me doing them in the near future.

[@raevenent751]

punch3870 I'll sum it up for you. Boomer knight on steroids.

[@flora4402]

Meh

[@ooperblownup]

My problem with qodron was that there wasnt enough time to rescue the third guy in the bubble before he died and then having to wait to rez him in time to kill the 3rd eye and repeat the process

[@flora4402]

Victornero Sain I suggest all grouping up, so the guy with JailBreaker can destroy everyones bubbles

[@BigPauleyD]

Agreed !! Great Thoughts . we need more ways to earn keys or just let us buy them for Strange Coins .

[@XxWhIpLaSh18xX]

BigPauleyD See the patch notes from today. Their drop rates have been increased, and they even put in a guaranteed way to get one each week.

[@BigPauleyD]

XxWhIpLaSh18xX Yep , Sweet !!

[@maddhatter6551]

That vex fight last week was really ridiculous. I had a whole team of lvl 34 and had an extremely difficult time beating him without just blasting him with gallys. A bunch of times we just wiped cause the shiny vex the eye never even spawned or if he did he wasn't anywhere near where we were. I could see any lvl 33s beating him like lvl 33 teams were able to beat the flame prince in the first week. I heard Skolas doesn't have a burn on this week meaning people have to beat him without just blasting him with shotguns, P&T or Gally. I agree with you. It becomes no fun to play when you whole team is stuck hiding cowering in corners or behind covers because there are so many majors or one shot enemies you don't wanna peek out to hit the boss cause as soon as you do ur killed. It's like a lot of the fights have become more about luck than the skill of the team and I didn't like it in Crotas End and don't like it here. Fighting one lvl higher while I understand why Bungie did it I thinks can leave things more to luck than skill cause you do less and take more damage. I would run Crota hard with the same team. First run we beat him in 10--20 minute and then would switch characters and run it again and the second run things would happen and we'd be 45 minutes in and still battling. I always thought there were ways for Bungie to make a hard challenging raid boss or PoE boss without just making everyone fight a lvl higher than they are. Hopefully some the things will be changed. We all know Bungie is listening and take what the community says and tries to make fix it or accommodate

[@maximos92]

The high servitors in the fallen arenas are one of the only enemies I have found that cannot be 1 Shot by Celestial Nighthawk. It barley even takes away 65% of their health.

[@abrahamrios7347]

What about if the vex boss had a emp against them that caused all adds except the boss to be shut down allowing you to do damage

[@Willbatross_]

IMO Psion Operants on arc burn are a little too powerful. They have a Razor's Edge-like attack with (what seems to be) unlimited range and unless you are very alert they can be very hard to dodge. They are even more of a pain when you have to dismatle mines and the first one is where they spawn.

[@galesturms]

PoE is fun and enjoyable, HoW is a great expansion, story is fun, the Reef getting attention is great, and ToO is the most fun and excitement I've had in PvP. Still, holy shit, there needs to be some balancing with 35 and below when there is burns. I cannot express how maddening it was that during Solar/Arc burn weeks we spent nearly an hour before we even hit Skolas until we began skirting the map because almost everything would one shot us. We just got lucky that it only took half an hour to take Skolas down. Overall though, pretty solid.

[@Primizzle]

DattoDoesDestiny Prison of Elders is fun, but for levels 34 and 35, it makes the dependency of Gjallarhorn greater because of the difficulty. I would say this for the Qodron fight. Iv'e seen countless videos with similar titles "How to beat (enter boss here) easy." And the GHorn is their answer. And Guardians completing Skolas, majority used GHorn to beat the boss and don't have, or wouldn't use other alternatives. This makes a strain on those guardians who dont have GH, to either pair up with those who have it, or wind up not doing a level 34 PoE. Its like a separation between the have and the have-nots when it comes to finding a group for PoE. And this is an issue.

[@pluto3194]

When you say the psions can become the most dangerous thing you mean level 35 round 3 right (cabal with arc burn)

[@acDCZepplen]

Is there any benefit to doing each level per week like how the weekly heroic gives strange coins

[@steveoinker]

Incredible video. Great details, and ideas, supported with relevant clips.

[@punkrockereibi]

I don't consider myself an amazing player, but I think I am pretty good, but damn this past weekend was one of the mos frustrating weeks on Destiny, Qodron was just almost impossible to kill, I was the only one with Gjally so we couldn't burn him, after almost 45 minutes of trying I just give up, and without a checkpoint well just went to play other game.

[@burns0100]

Abelardo Aldana He isn't that hard considering you can break free of the shield with 6-7 shotgun shots and even if you all wipe a warlock can res and survive. You can also group up and only need one guy to kill an eye to be able to free everyone. Also after killing enough enemies they stop spawning for awhile because they come in waves or boss health gates ( 20% 50% so on ). Far Right side of the Vex room is the best place to sit as enemies rarely come that far over and mostly just group right in front of you for easy kills.

[@punkrockereibi]

Thanks for the advice, I did not know some of those strategies I will try for sure!!

[@burns0100]

Abelardo Aldana Glad someone thinks so. Ive had people tell me off for bragging that im good. Im just sharing my experience and trying to help others, I don't get why people think that when you say you did something others can't that you are saying your better. I hope my advice helps.

[@pavelzubarev2987]

all though I haven't agreed with many of your videos, with this one - I completely agree - you have my respect Datto :) Solid points! Great review ;) U have improved a lot!

[@jakefitz7256]

What would you think about a boss encounter with absolutely no ads? It focuses solely on the boss and uses mechanics to keep it interest. Maybe the boss has 4 forms so you feel like you are progressing not just shooting a sponge. I feel like every boss battle in destiny focuses on the ads more than the boss..

[@MilkJugOrNot]

question have auto-rifles been buffed? I'm asking because I was playing iron banner earlier and I got a legendary auto-rifle and I used it the next game and got a level 34 down to 25% with about half of the clip...missing a lot of course.

[@MilkJugOrNot]

joshua lyons Another question is there a easy way to get the new legendary handcanon ill will or is it just RNG? I really want to get it. I only seen other people get it and their at the bottom and i'm in the middle or at the top of my team most of the time

[@AlezarGorewich]

Well, to answer your first question, no, bungie has not released a patch that officially buffed auto rifles. As for your second question, ill will, along with many other guns ( Matador, Ash Factory ) has only been dropping from RNG, sorry.

[@MilkJugOrNot]

Ok thankyou.

[@Iced_Tristan]

It would also be nice if I wasn't teleported in the middle of all the enemies whenever I go into cover or running through the outside edge of the arena. I get it's supposed to be an "anti-cheese" tool but it's much too sensitive and seems to proc randomly at times

[@Buckaroo738]

I love this game, only get a few hours a day to play, not every day either so imagine how I feel to struggle through the endless battles to get to Skolas, stick at it with a good team that work the mechanics, feel the end is near when he's down to two or three more shots, to get WEASEL and booted from game!! Can't be bothered to do all that again, so I strongly agree, a checkpoint of some sort, pleaseeeeeeee!

[@africanruffle2099]

Does anyone else think that they should have the different legions of enemies. Instead of having just the house of wolves in there shouldn't we have the other houses? Instead of just having the hidden swarm hive shouldnt we have the blood of oryx? I know some of the fallen houses fight each other but that would make the PoE more interesting.

[@KeviBowser]

Weekly Update 6/11/2015 is fixing Skolas. It will be hard still, but not frustrating.

[@CouldnThinkOfUsername]

To be able to join a skolas cp, you should have to have it as well or it wouldn't work to prevent stealing.

[@TheManoDestra]

Hey man, good video and great thoughts. Check Bungies Update Notes for this week and the address a few of the things you talk about. However, same number of adds.... :/