SerfsTV Fan Challenges Destiny And Gets Into A HEATED Debate...

[@destiny]

Although SerfsTV has decided to never debate Destiny again, a loyal fan joins DGG after watching lance's video on Destiny and takes it on himself to debate Destiny on Lance's behalf.

[@neomoirai]

This was from the same episode where Lance said he bastiat and DrHeemed were going to start making Holocaust jokes, right?

[@mypartyisprivate8693]

Don't these lefties regularly rag on conservatives for being afraid of debate and guarding their ideas from scrutiny? Yet at the first opportunity these very same lefties all turn tail and Crowder away

[@johnscott6481]

Holocaust originally meant or had association with fire.

[@LaptopmenaceMTK]

I know destiny is probably used to this kind of shit when talking to people, but this guy sounds like a real pompous prick who's never had his ass handed to him before.

[@AjaxFerrariLeafs]

@@regionalrange3052 Lance is spineless

[@Enthos2]

95% of politics is arguing over whether someone is allowed to use X emotionally loaded term to describe something and it's exhausting

[@Jrez]

This is what's so annoying about what's become of lefty Twitter or w/e, it's just a massive waste of energy.

[@roymarshall_]

This is more of a left politics issue than a right politics issue, because so many on the left want to use very strong terms to describe everything. Rape, trauma, slavery, murder, racism, genocide, supremacy, etc. everybody seems to think the way to make political progress is to take their chosen topic and find a way to describe it with one or more of these very strong terms.

[@AnEnemyAnenome]

No shit, I've always been sympathetic to liberal social causes but all through college it was overcharged rhetoric bullshit. My school's library closed at noon for some holiday to give workers a half day off and these lefty types said they were "doing violence to black bodies" because some black students had classes that got out at 2pm and wanted to go study/get books afterwards. Like, slavery was really really bad and hurts people today but giving library staff a half day is not violence to black bodies

[@Jrez]

@@roymarshall_ well to be fair people on the right also love using words with strong negative correlations, they just don't have anyone to argue about whether it's appropriate or not for fear of being branded an SJW who is obsessed with political correctness.

[@SirLied]

@@roymarshall_ It's a way of easily setting up easy deflection of criticism, as you can frame your detractors as in support of such heinous concepts. "So you disagree with this point? That must mean you support heinous thing A, indefensible thing B then right?" It gives them all the moral high ground and makes pearl clutching and cry bullying as strategies only a small step away.

[@johnleoks7642]

The Serfs aren't sending their best. Edit: Actually who am I kidding. This guy probably is their best.

[@CrestOfArtorias]

They sent Richard Wolff, their absolute best and look how that turned out.

[@hochmeisterr]

This kid Is a mod in their tankie castro loving infested cesspool

[@werewolfasp2259]

This is one of their 3 star generals from the SerfsTV's army.

[@oscarrivera3929]

Brilliant comment 👌👌😂😂

[@jakewhite8340]

@@CrestOfArtorias Lol you’re saying Destiny did well against Richard Wolff? Im honestly surprised Wolff lowered himself to that conversation

[@hannibalholmes7876]

This is the most pointless discussion I've seen in a long time.

[@randominternetguy1499]

so just another Destiny video?

[@leoalphaproductions8642]

Isn’t all political debate bros discussion ultimately pointless? Just a massive circle jerk for their audience.

[@randominternetguy1499]

@@leoalphaproductions8642 this is 99% true

[@hannibalholmes7876]

@@leoalphaproductions8642 yes, it basically is. But I felt like in comparison to other discussions this one was particularly inane

[@thatindiandude4602]

@@leoalphaproductions8642 politics is essentially another form of gossip shows

[@aarontrudel9947]

"Who cares what stupid people think today?" Would have been hilarious if the video just ended right there

[@campsitez2355]

viva frei "confession through projection" also "race realism" fuel also "Metis" are not considered an actual indigenous group.... as it was disputed only up to roughly 1 decade ago... when the communists decided they needed more "useful idiots" to vote for people like Jagmeet Sing.... whose party was literally founded by communist sympathizers.

[@jetjet6560]

This is the next evolutin of debates..."Proxy Debates." Almost like the cold war for online lefties lolll

[@Michael_Paul585]

So if this debate is Afghanistan, Steven is the USSR and this debater is the mujahadeen?

[@Thundra1000]

@@Michael_Paul585 What

[@Seaneey]

@@Thundra1000 Right.... what....

[@tophatv2902]

@@Michael_Paul585 ???

[@oledidreksen1634]

Looooolllll

[@Lewa500]

This guy is literally using Trump's "a lot of people have looked into it" argument.

[@lindenstromberg6859]

That needs to be made into an official argument fallacy, the "Alotta people" fallacy, also known as the Trump fallacy - a sub-category of "Argumentum ad populum" where the consensus being appealed to is completely invented by person attempting the argument. Also known as a lie.

[@DJWolford]

Only smart people use the word genocide like I do

[@hermithouse]

I hate to defend this guy because he’s a tool…he’s still right on this point. Countless studies and reviews have been on and it is widely considered a cultural genocide of First Nations people by the government of Canada. This is because of decades of residential schools and the countless bodies found buried there even today, the attempts to beat the culture/religion/language out of the children who were taken from families and placed in these schools, the 60s scoop which again took First Nations kids from their families and sent them to be raised by white families, and the missing and murdered indigenous women report which looks at how common it is for these women to be killed or just go missing and police flat out do nothing and don’t care. So you fail to understand the point of your comment other than to try and score cheap “internet points” while also having zero clue what you are talking about.

[@11DaltonB]

@@hermithouse Correct. And I believe the police not aiding in the search of indigenous women is still one of the major current issues. But many of those other things are not currently supported by the Canadian government or actively in place. The argument is whether the current Canadian government is committing genocide, not if it did in the past.

[@DJWolford]

@@hermithouse sure whatever but even then why don’t they say cultural genocide why did they just say genocide. we’re comparing Stalin starving millions of Ukrainians versus Canadians trying to modernize indigenous peeps? what the fuck? it’s ridiculous, ridiculous isn’t even close to a strong enough word

[@downsjmmyjones101]

All this guy would have to do is agree that black people are experiencing a genocide in the USA and he'd be consistent.

[@keithfilibeck2390]

I think you'll find he probably hates them

[@IBBMS]

@@keithfilibeck2390 he hates Black people?

[@tiaandeswardt7741]

And then you can get him to agree that white people are experiencing a genocide in South Africa

[@silenceyouidiot]

@UChxK0ORd-3iKvRcO8JUP1cw I thought that when Destiny brought up the US bombing Japan twice. I thought the guy was going to say, "...if they needlessly continued to bomb them, say 3 more atoms they could have been in a state of no recovery and die out." He completely flipped and I really do wonder if it's only a genocide because he's mixed with the ethnicity he's in.

[@shaynewspence]

Sure, he'd still be wrong on the actual definition of genocide though

[@Jtyrell818]

I love how he curses Destiny out and Destiny doesn’t even respond and he’s almost lost LMFAOOOO

[@PhobosMedia]

2021 rhetorically effective Destiny 🤌🤌🍝

[@ishouldexpandmytasteincheese]

Sigma male grindset

[@jase37]

@@ishouldexpandmytasteincheese quadrillionaire mindset

[@badstreff]

This is the way. The dead air and awkwardness is beautiful.

[@Kloutkulture]

Time stamp

[@nicholasg.5441]

It's cute how excited people get when they think they found a good dunk.

[@hjge1012]

This guy committed genocide on my braincells.

[@ogolthorp]

But there was no intent.

[@ZachThom9]

For me it was a holocaust, because it all happened at once.

[@anatomie9430]

"When a people kill another group of people, its a genocide. The more people are killed the more genocide it is, and when you kill people REALLY fast its a holocaust!" -Richard D. Wolff

[@markallen6433]

Hold up, don't we first need to describe what isn't a genocide?

[@jimboblordofeskimos]

@@markallen6433 A genocide is a holocaust done by people who arent incompetent.

[@borpie]

@@markallen6433 Genocide is when the government does bad stuff

[@Tube_Chaser]

This is epic, he knows the Holocaust!

[@stimmymayhem3201]

We can trace the first genocides to fuedalism. . .

[@courtneyvaldez7903]

“I don’t know what the Holodomor is, but also that is a bad example to bring up here.” Da fuq...!?

[@michaelclarke4009]

where did i say it was a bad example. he laid it out for me, i said it was genocide, he didnt even bother to counter with how it might not be.

[@chochoproductions5720]

@@michaelclarke4009 he mentioned intentionality atleast 90000 times

[@michaelclarke4009]

@@chochoproductions5720 clearly i mean in terms of the holodomor. can you follow a literal two comment thread? no? good try.

[@XarisAC]

@@michaelclarke4009 Your reply was "well I don't know about that" which sometimes can be interpreted as skepticism/disagreement, but I think that you said it because you literally didn't know about it.

[@michaelclarke4009]

@@XarisAC no, i said i didnt know about it, because he brought it up as something that is common knowledge. he then explained it to me and i said, yeah thats genocide, which he accepted because the way he laid it out, it was undeniably genocide. if theres some reason why it is debatable, destiny didnt offer that piece or even felt to argue after my declaration of it.

[@wyla6930]

Damn this guys connection was genocided multiple times during this stream

[@ChewyHands]

How are you defining genocide in this comment?

[@oscarrivera3929]

😂😂😂

[@diamondwave100]

I spoke with the CEO of Discord, he said that there WAS intent to bring his connection down.

[@rosssivertson6339]

I think his connection decided to genocide itself multiple times after listening to him rant.

[@DennisSpiero]

the most Canadian genocide ever

[@adrycough]

sowry but... all your *land* are belong to us.

[@bobby_c07]

@@adrycough *here's billions of dollars per year for your leaders to squander *

[@idontgetthejoke4813]

That was hilarious. Nice pfp too.

[@oldbenkenobi3753]

@@adrycough actually it belongs to us, because your people were so under evolved and inept, it took little time no effort for Europeans to conquer "your land"

[@bajula4444]

Easily the best comment regarding this. I'm totally using this again.

[@Rawrbagels]

Destiny, you HAD him. When it says "the difference is where it leads." All you had to do is say "population growth of the indigenous people in Canada?" And he's cooked.

[@DavionIsAKoolAssNerd]

Agreed. Easy dunk

[@cowyeti21]

he did. then he switched to saying that the genocide was being realized through the 10 year life expectancy gap

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

@@cowyeti21 destiny dunked on that argument by bringing up that asians have way longer life span in america than any other racial group

[@cowyeti21]

@@cabbagedestroyer1693 true. destiny brought up that and the black life expectancy, yet the dude didnt want to say that there was a white or black genocide. He kept saying that the black life expectancy was not low enough and therefore not serious enough to call it a genocide. his definition of genocide is so personal at that point that it's not worth trying to argue

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

@@cowyeti21 dont Asians live 5 years longer than white people and like 8 or 10 years more than black people? I remember seeing it and it was ridiculously high.

[@nb4411]

Imagine listening to serfs unironically.

[@brocksampson5610]

He even argues like him, making extraordinary claims he struggles to back up against simple questioning, it's like they just talk without thinking

[@nb4411]

@@brocksampson5610 He also said "cartoonishly"

[@BruceAlrighty1991]

@@brocksampson5610 has nearly the same kind of diatribe of emotional appeals he runs to when questioned on his bs

[@nsaylor9]

Imagine imagining things ironically.

[@nb4411]

@@nsaylor9 imagine imagining that imagining things ironically is unimaginable.

[@saintroivas6982]

This guy melted pretty quick.

[@layman1265]

USA: "here's how bernie can still win" this guy: "here's how the NDP can still win"

[@abhimanyu3505]

Yo aren't you the centrist scottish guy from twitter, fancy seeing you here.

[@layman1265]

@@abhimanyu3505 im canadian but yes ahahaha

[@Godzillaaaaa11]

But jagmeet said so 🥺 why won't you listen to jagmeet

[@dannygelbart6827]

NDP would never win in Canada.

[@layman1265]

@@dannygelbart6827 TRUE unless there were only conservative or right-leaning alternative parties, which is why BC is the way it is right now basically (and alberta)

[@jloiben12]

Ahhh. The Serfs “sending” his best fans to get absolutely wrecked by Destiny. I love it. I am here for it. I need more Lance stand ins. This is great

[@lukaszmarzec1226]

Canada is not sending their best

[@CarterDarter]

I have a theory that it's the opposite. His fans think they can get through to Destiny better than Serf can, when actually they're weakening his credibility and giving Destiny a bigger platform to stand on.

[@hochmeisterr]

First World socialist are not very bright

[@lordtalamargaming6097]

Tbh Destiny didn't wreck anyone he just used logic fallacies to grand stand on definition. Aka equivocation based off appeal to authority. Can't be a 'Debate Lord' if you base you whole argument on equivocation......

[@lordtalamargaming6097]

@Nick Bacigalupo It's not my opinion that he based his whole argument on equivocation. Aka using only UN definition of Genocide. Which is an Equivocation based on an Appeal to Authority. Basic Logic 101 class is where I get my opinion on this. Sorry to have to inform you of basic Logic class.

[@Kardel_VA]

Not even 5 minutes in, and this guys sounds like he's trying to lecture Destiny as if he's a child. Yup, this guy also watches Vaush.

[@ThinWhiteLuke]

Vaush isn’t as bad as this guy, come on.

[@Kardel_VA]

@@ThinWhiteLuke Yeah he kinda is. His vocabulary of demeaning people I will say is far more advanced.

[@pdpgb]

lol this argument was so pathetic. >Intentionality doesn't matter as long as the result is ethnic cleansing. >It doesn't matter if the indigenous population is actually growing since you are still attempting genocide. Just WTF?

[@joncolumbino744]

to be fair destiny agreed that the population could be growing even if a genocide was happening. Could just be an unsuccessful genocide. Not agreeing with the caller, just clarifying.

[@jdjenk04]

@@joncolumbino744 but I believe the caller, as soon as he made that second claim, acknowledged that intentionality DOES matter. He’s just being selective on when intentionality matters and when it doesn’t.

[@idontgetthejoke4813]

Cultural genocide as well.

[@pdpgb]

@@joncolumbino744 Yea that's the whole point where the intent comes in. It could be happening as in somebody's trying to do it but failing. However when you say the intent doesn't matter but only the results, then how can you possibly say a genocide is taking place when the results are an increase in native population? It's not even about ethnic cleansing at this point, it's about: "This group of people is doing worse than this other one therefore genocide." Ridiculous. Also this person considers attempting to culturally integrate them into Canadian society as a form of genocide even though that's exactly what would improve their living standards. If you want to stay as an insular community living in semi isolated reserves then you might just end up with worse economic prospects later on in life. A difference in outcome does not automatically mean the system is racist, let alone committing genocide.

[@pdpgb]

@@idontgetthejoke4813 So is there a difference between "cultural genocide" and just integration into the wider society? I don't think anybody is trying to burn their totem poles or forcefully convert them to Christianity in current year.

[@typhoidmary2967]

why is this guy so angry? it's kinda comedic listening to destiny talk calmly whilst this guy gets all bent out of shape.

[@Jrez]

Because Destiny won't coddle and acknowledge his mostly emotional argument.

[@markallen6433]

Because he's part Native, so he's been convinced that his family is being murdered or something.

[@note4note804]

@@markallen6433 Nah he's Metis. He's indigenous in the same way that Drake is a black American.

[@Dizzifying1]

The left get angry when they meet ANY resistance. It is to cover up their massive insecurities defending their indefensible positions...

[@typhoidmary2967]

@@Dizzifying1 insane generalisation but ok

[@pogo8050]

The part where the caller tries to argue a “Holocaust” is technically different from a genocide, my eyes just glazed over lmao.

[@smiff513]

The best way you can interpret that is that they meant it’s worse then something like the Armenia genocide or holodomir

[@SuperNeilAdams]

It's not what the guy's trying to say but technically it is in the same way that "Woodstock" is different from a music festival. The latter's a general term and the former's a specific example of something in that category. But that's getting real technical and nitpicky and would only be relevant if someone kept trying to refer to genocides in general as 'holocausts'.

[@FearfulSludgeBoy]

Technically they are distinct things. A holocaust is a genocide, a genocide isn't necessarily a holocaust.

[@seess8251]

I wasn't aware you could say "a" holocaust, I'm sure it's the Holocaust, that's the only thing you would refer to as that since it's one specific event in history. However quite often these words gain a more general meaning via antonomasia (idk if it's this exact word in english)

[@aagh8714]

@@seess8251 the word holocaust has been used for centuries, although rarely, but **the** holocaust is far and away the most major usage that kind of absorbed all its meaning

[@chipo746]

We run into a similar issue with the murder of about 30-40 trans individuals per year in the USA. A lot of people will rush to call this a genocide: without reference to the UN's definition. This conversation gets even messier when we begin to look into the individual murders: a large percentage of the murders are tragically intimate partner murders: boyfriends who are the prime suspects, domestic violence etc. Many on the left often start with the conclusion: that tragedies must be part of a genocide for example and work backwards. This caller personifies this tendency. About 20 minutes in, I think Destiny has done a patient and respectful job here.

[@jeffwells641]

This is a common human failing - you normally notice the result first and have to look for the cause. It's really hard to step back from your initial assumptions and find the true root causes of things. It's probably the number one logical fallacy - starting with a conclusion and looking for evidence to support it rather than trying to find the correct conclusion.

[@matt-mel]

Sounds just like Lance with a pitch shift lmao

[@chaosgoat2720]

Must be the Canadiansk accent.

[@MiniDonbeE]

Dude.. this was so fucking good. Destiny goes " Can you give me a genocide definition that doesn't say destruction or slaughter on a mass scale" And this guy just goes. " The genocide in Canada " I fucking lost it man, this dude is incredible.

[@mayorofmotown]

When emotions are the only argument you have

[@derekc6994]

he just sounds ignorant af

[@pintsofwatermelon5665]

So this guy started out by saying that intention doesn't matter because if you're pushing a guy off a cliff then your intention doesn't matter, but when confronted with the fact that the Canadian indigenous and Palestinian population is rising rapidly he responded by saying that that doesn't mean it's not a genocide because the intention is there. Basically if you are determined to see a genocide where there is none there will be endless ways of explaining how it exists. All of this watering down of the word "genocide" is doing a great historical disservice to populations who have actually been the victims of ruthless regimes doing everything they can to wipe them off the face of the earth. Discrimination is not genocide.

[@niceyniceyzoozoo836]

Yeah people like this guy have stripped the term down to basically 'anything that makes me feel yucky'.

[@AniKhang]

“The DELIBERATE killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group…” Yeah… I think intent 100% matters to the definition of genocide.

[@RomoFett_]

I don't think it matters to the people who are experiencing the genocide. If I get killed, I don't necessarily care if it's done intentionally or by someone whose blindly shooting my direction.

[@muizzsiddique]

@@RomoFett_ Deliberate is all about intent. And to kill a mass amount of people all who coincidentally share a particularly indentifiable attribute, it's going to be hard to do that on accident without also harming people of differing attributes.

[@nickterooze]

@@RomoFett_ that may be the case, but if one wants to solve the problem at a national scale, one has to look at the cause of the problem. What the intention part of the definition does is help figure out what the most effective course of action may be. If someone is doing something intentionally, making rules against their actions might lessen the effects of that person but they will likely continue to look for ways of continuing to do the bad thing, even if it’s through different methods; in this case, the person, the bad guy, is the top issue. If there is no intent behind the terrible stuff that’s happening to a population, the best course of action changes. Policies need to be enacted that both fix the things that are currently going wrong and prevent those things and things like them from happening again. The distinction between genocide and some sort of systemic issue (like systemic racism) is meant to make clearer what the best solution to the problem is. If you get the wrong diagnosis from your doctor, you might end up treating some symptoms, but the cause won’t go away and other bad symptoms may arise.

[@RomoFett_]

@@nickterooze That is the difference between the legal definition and the moral definition. We can play with the legal definitions all we want, it is still morally reprehensible.

[@fragge]

@@RomoFett_ ​ The problem with using the wrong definition is made obvious by this very video. You get stuck in a discussion about the problem instead of the solution. And the solution often depends on the definition. That's why we have specific processes for specific problems in medicine etc. If you want to charge me for murder, when I was not stopping a guy from falling down a hole beside me and died, then you infer intent to my actions. Negligence is not the same as intent to kill. Could I have saved him? Yes. Did I murder him? Absolutely not. Was it morally reprehensible of me to ignore the risks? In most moral system, yes! Call it for what it is and move on with the solution.

[@RealRyanSecord]

Debating these people is like debating a knockoff of a knockoff of a knockoff.

[@Cylonick]

jfc, man. I don't always agree with Destiny, but his ability to stay calm and focused is supernatural. Admirable to say the least.

[@ordohereticus3427]

25:30 - What's been found with the history of residential schools is horrendous, but his claim about life expectancy gap growing is patently false. Statistics from official sources clearly show a small improvement and shrinkage in that gap, and largely because Inuit men (who have an abnormally low expectancy), skew down the overall median for the entire group comprised of three different population pools. Also, their population has been growing in recent times. Some figures showing an almost five fold rate in population growth when compared to the average between all other groups living in Canada. Ergo: They are reproducing more and are living longer on average. A very serious and valid conversation could be had about the lingering impact of systemic injustice and basic failures with regards to the well-being of the natives in Canada. Yet it's all squandered away because some people insist on making this an argument about an on-going genocide.

[@angusmarch1066]

I think from thier point of view, they have been calling for reform for a very long time and have gone largely ignored, so they may very well feel that theyre being genocided. I reckon its more useful for everyone to quit quibbling over terminology and just fix the problems faced by natives.

[@ordohereticus3427]

@@angusmarch1066 Sure, but using loaded terms like this is a central reason why the quibbling begins. He has a very good argument about systemic failures that have had inter-generational damaging effects following an older policy that could be deemed genocidal. Instead, he expended immense time simply trying to convince Destiny that it is a current genocide, using claims that aren’t even supported by the facts and data, and even a quote from Trudeau that refers to past acts as genocidal, and nothing of the present. The whole endeavour was such a waste.

[@angusmarch1066]

@@ordohereticus3427 true

[@avolare]

@@ordohereticus3427 Agreed. This would have been a decent conversation if this man had looked at some facts and figures prior to this talk. It is an emotionally driven position spawned by the ongoing issues indigenous peoples experience due to systematic oppression. He seems to be upset about the fact the Canadian government isn't doing 'enough' to make amends for the past - almost as if he doesn't understand this happens in the blink of an eye. It's interesting that people can be so passionate about something yet...he isn't doing anything productive/proactive about this problem such as getting involved directly with indigenous communities or politics or fundraising etc (this is an assumption because he didn't mention whether he does or doesn't). The time he had to talk on here was wasted almost entirely however, the silver lining (for me at least) that they are talking about the issue and Destiny's channel is a digital platform with the ability to reach any people who may not have knowledge of Canadian history and it's blood soaked roots.

[@ordohereticus3427]

@@avolare Thanks for that, and I'll just add the following. Assuming I’ve read your comment correctly, you make a very good additional point about the unreasonableness of expecting "blink of an eye" effects. Multi-generational abuses and tragedies such as this one didn't unfold in the blink of an eye, either. They took generations to cause sustained harm and even embed ills into various structures. This cannot be overturned or undone with one firm gesture or policy; it will all take considerable time. Furthermore, what I find particularly salient about this argument is that it can also be applied to reactionary obscurantists and apologists on the right who dismiss concerns about systemic issues on grounds that previous laws were amended. Something like generations of sub-human status, displacement, abuse and lack of wealth and property accumulation doesn't just instantly correct itself once a law is put into effect. That also takes considerable time to correct itself with public attitudes often being slow to catch up as well.

[@bean-pod]

Destiny: "Isn't the intentionality of what constitutes a genocide important?" Caller: "Why would it important?" Jesus Christ, I'm only 2 minutes in and I already need a whiskey 😩

[@TallCanDan02]

This ones almost not worth it. They stay on this topic almost the whole debate lol

[@backwardthoughts1022]

intentionality refers to an intention to commit the act of genocide, not the motivation behind it.

[@SkullcandyEdit]

This entire conversation= The guy: They do X. Destiny: But it seems like they dont have Y which is per definition required for X The guy: No Destiny: Yes. The guy: But *says names* all said it is one. Destiny: But we need that Y tho to call it X. The guy: ...no

[@tankiehatingsocialist678]

So literally arguing about definitions

[@chronographer]

Also that guy: At the end of the day it doesn't matter what people say, it's about what is happening. Around 15:30 somewhere

[@Moliminous]

Mod fucked up the title. Destiny will not feed him tonight as punishment. Very sad

[@TheIcedPeanut]

💀💀

[@selgoops]

This guy is so insufferable. Your resolute behavior and patience are very admirable. You never faltered for ad homs. Calm and tactful, great work

[@vrcngtrx3856]

I don’t trust people who rely on changing definitions to make their arguments work.

[@tianamaycry]

Wait, you mean I can't just define myself as correct and then get mad when you contest my definition? That's like, my ONE tactic tho.. :(

[@TheRealZeke2003]

How do you feel about the alphabet community

[@1234567Aesop]

Him: Theres not a policy, but if we look at statistics we can see that it's happening. Also him: Well who cares if their population is rising when genocidal policies are in place.

[@gleekthemonkey4570]

The fact that Vaush and the Serfs have vowed never to debate Destiny again is really weird. Like even if you think he’s Satan then you should still be able to expose that.

[@ukaszpoprawa2175]

They pulled the Crowder move.

[@tripledigit4835]

Is there a clip where Serfs says this? Like I’ve seen Vaush say it but not Serfs

[@LVArturs]

In one video Lance said he's not platforming Destiny anymore, whatever that means.

[@mypartyisprivate8693]

Yeah, Lance and Vaush are obviously Crowdering away. That they found the Crowder-Seder situation so funny was pure projection

[@christophergreen6595]

Uhhhh... after that 'you donate to terrorists' shit i wouldn't touch him either. Im old enough to remember entire careers being tossed as well as government prosecution of people similarly accused, only 15 years ago.

[@alexrandall8557]

"Isn't the intentionality of that pretty important though?" "Why would it be important?" Okay this is where the debate ended as far as I'm concerned. 2:25

[@_thripple]

Destiny you really put this guy in .5x speed to make him sound dumb? That’s low

[@webbraham2768]

XD

[@suzimonkey345]

Did Destiny make him faster or slower? (Slow sounds “dumb” whilst fast…) How do you know that he did this? Why would he do this?

[@_thripple]

@@gravyjones9746 don’t lie to me I watch Linus Tech Tips

[@justsumguy5991]

@@suzimonkey345 its a joke fam the guy just speaks slowly

[@Jrez]

@@suzimonkey345 are u also a SerfsTV fan?

[@NoahDancaster]

Please never rebuild the bridge with Serfs and/or Vaush, the hostility from their fans make for great content.

[@TheFlameoftheWest]

As a Canadian myself I just haft to say, thank you Destiny

[@Machoke98]

True ,all you heard around Canada day was genocide genocide genocide,before you would celebrate the allies stopping one 76 years ago but now you're supposed to overweigh that with the shame of the "indigenous genocide"

[@StringsandPedals]

The guy does do a great job describing intent without ever using the word.

[@LiliS319]

This is so stupid. Why can't he just accept the definition and call it something else than genocide? Then the topic could still be discussed.

[@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacher]

I suspect the argument he'd make would be an emotional one and depriving himself of such an emotionally affective tool would lessen the result he was going for. That's not to say there's no argument to be made, but he seemed muddled from the get go.

[@HardStickman]

I haven't seen it but it doesn't seem like labeling matters for public engagement. Talk about some issues for as long as you want, nobody will care, but as soon as there's a controversy over if it's a genocide, it'll bring a lot of eyes on the issue. Although I'm not informed enough to say whether it actually is a genocide

[@spikesya]

Very popular tactic among 'progressives'. Israel is an 'arpathied' state committing 'genocide'. Right wing populism is 'nazism', falsehoods are 'McCarthy smears' ect.. I'm not making a value judgement, just an observation. This tactic is successful at attracting allies & spreading concern to a degree, but also alienates anyone sceptical of such extreme terms & often leads to a sort of purity spiral, as you see here. Destiny would be an ally, & is probably in agreement with 99% of this guys basic ideas, but the guy is so devoted to the correctness & purity in this minor terminology disagreement, he sees Destiny as an enemy. Many such cases.

[@RomoFett_]

@@spikesya If Destiny wishes to be an alley, he needs to listen to the people who are doing the ground work, and why they are calling it a genocide. Instead of talking to fans of other content creators, why not talk to indigenous rights activists?

[@ukaszpoprawa2175]

it's easier to compare things to bad things therefore this one is bad too, than find a reason why it's bad on it's own. Also emotional engagement is easier to achive for people already on your side, with cost that opposite side will just turn more hostile. It's stupid tactic that does more bad than good in the long run. But it works short term pretty good.

[@Redbeardblondie]

I like the part where you realize his argument on the life expectancy gap just falls through because it is on an upward trajectory and currently lower mostly due to their life expectancy previously being way worse.

[@russelld2925]

I’ve never seen Destiny so patient and long suffering. It was like watching a loving father help his five year old learn to read.

[@gregoryhouse4728]

"it's a ongoing problem, here's an example from over 60 years ago" 🤣

[@weltraumfalke5878]

This caller was more smug and confident than Bill Maher. I don’t know how Destiny didn’t snap with every snide „You do understand this right!?!?“ This guy sounded like such a turd I almost couldn’t listen to the debate. JFC

[@pengwin_]

Oh, did the serfstv also take the crowder pill and decide never to debate destiny again? LOL.

[@richardvaldes3959]

Spineless tv

[@gsutvaos868]

He basically didn't understand the difference between WAS and IS, if he did this would be a completely different conversation but maybe he doesn't care, I mean being a serfsTV fan it's par for course.

[@richardvaldes3959]

Exactly

[@charliekowittmusic]

You sound just like every other right wing genius who thinks Black people aren’t discriminated against anymore because slavery ended. -Canada allows dangerously unclean water reservoirs, but only on indigenous lands. -Canada has made no effort to go after assailants who have hurt or killed women by the thousands. A national inquiry stated this problem was so rampant, they concluded it was akin to “genocide”. -Corporations have been given a free pass to build, pump, and dump whatever they want on indigenous lands causing poisonings, birth defects, etc. Shall I go on? Sorry, you’re a Destiny fan, so it might be hard for you to keep up.

[@charliekowittmusic]

Of course, my source is only Human Rights Watch, so what do they know? Probably a bunch of dumb serfsTV fans. www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/canada www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/genocide-and-indigenous-peoples-in-canada

[@rasmus7493]

@@charliekowittmusic My guy this is a false equivilance. It would be accurate if op said that there was no discrimination against native people, but he just said there is no longer a genocide. Op didn't say that there is no more racism because slavery ended. Op said that there is no more slavery because slavery ended. Cringe bad faith

[@gyytgy3330]

@@charliekowittmusic You’re actually insane. Destiny literally acknowledges that the natives suffer from systemic racism and oppression, just that they aren’t currently being genocided. You’re so dishonest and bad faith.

[@DetectDEV_]

This guy has to be drunk right? He was slurring the entire debate.

[@bobbyz9052]

I think that's just how he talks

[@adam.9778]

right into my feed

[@Wahooney]

Wow, Big Mad II enters the arena...

[@0x20pirate]

Destiny being restrained just makes me yell at the vid instead of hearing him do it

[@hdudidi]

Things can be bad without being a genocide

[@bujublanton7829]

Yeah but what if they get really bad

[@richardvaldes3959]

First mistake (spineless) Serftv fan. Their depth is ankle deep on nearly every topic.

[@mypartyisprivate8693]

True. They want the feeling of knowing and promoting good in the world without the knowing or promoting

[@richardvaldes3959]

@@mypartyisprivate8693 cliffnotes low effort identity politics

[@zacharychristy8928]

"How many years until a 'holocaust' turns into a genocide?" *windows blue screen*

[@erikshure360]

"If a system exists that causes the extinction of a people or a significant reduction of a group's population, then that is genocide." The reason he is scared to say something like this and stick with it is because he knows that by this definition whites in America could be classified as being "genocided" considering their population has been in decline (about 200k per year) for the past few years, which to some, 200k may be considered significant.

[@mrguermo1]

Destiny patiently explains how words work for an hour.

[@oscargreat]

For how long will you expect others to pretend as if racism 3x!$ts?

[@atheismiscancer469]

🇮🇱 will keep using it for as long as it works.

[@Messiahs]

Sometimes it just feels like it's all about "BUT I WANNA SAY THE WORD... so i bend it long enough that i can use it."

[@YoutubeMadeMePickHandle]

First words out of his mouth: “BeCaUsE It’S SyStEmIc” 🙄 so generic

[@pogo8050]

It really bugs me when people just hear words that sound smart and throw them around without really making an argument. Especially when it's people on my general side of an argument.

[@autumnhannah2368]

They never point out a policy or law or anything proving their claims.

[@Fembro]

Imagine how much more productive this conversation would’ve been if the guy was less emotional and more level headed. The dude just wanted to be right so badly he didn’t care if it doesn’t make sense.

[@smoothmedia]

It WAS a cultural genocide, and it has HUGE lasting impacts to this day as it didn't end that long ago. It is not an ongoing genocide.

[@ryanpurdon7774]

Was looking for this comment

[@janelane187]

I love the dramatic music in the background.

[@Apocalyptichell]

This whole debate was rhetoric. The guy wanted to use the charged word genocide for political power of his group that has been wronged. Destiny wanted to use the actual definition of the word. You could have come in with "what is fascist" debate all over again. It would sound the same. People want to use emotionally charged words, so they can elicit sympathy for their cause and gain support for it. This guy just wants to change the definition of the word to suit his goals.

[@jeffwells641]

What's crazy is he's only pointed out like one thing that's harmful - the foster care system. Foster care systems are fucked all over the place. The US's foster care system is not great either. I don't know how they compare, but it's a huge stretch to say that's a genocide.

[@VideoCallInShow]

This is what happens when we cannot agree on the definition of terms. Just know that if you insist on re-defining terms as you see fit, you are in for a world of confusion from the rest of us that understand the functional utility of agreed upon language to solve problems.

[@triumphTLG]

First thing i see when i look up genocide is "the intentional action of-"

[@cornbeef4298]

It sucks this guy was so snarky when destiny was actually being very civil

[@StoicViper]

I think it is possible to state that what Canada has done to its indigenous population in the past amounts to the crime of genocide, but this genocide is not ongoing. In other words, while a systematic campaign of annihilation was pursued, similair to many other countries in the west with significant indigenous populations, this campaign at some point ended. What continues towards indigenous individuals may meet the classification of systemic racism, but it does not meet the elements of genocide. I say that because the Canadian goverment does not appear to be pursuing a policy of annihilation, even when taken into account the deaths of indigenous individuals via murder, etc. For the actions against the indigenous populace to be considered a genocide *today*, then it would need to meet the elements set out in the UN, notably that the Canadian goverment or officials within the goverment, "intent to destroy, in whole or in part" the indigenous populace either through the targeted "a) killing of members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." (Article 2) This would need to be pursued through the various state apparatuses of the canadian state. Canada's actions towards its indigenous population currently cannot be compared with the CCP's actions towards the Uyghur population, as the case of the latter there is much more evidence to suggest that there is indeed an ongoing genocide occuring in Xinjiang. The statements by officials, actions by the state, reduction in Uyghur population, forced sterilisation, forced labour, etc. All this is indicitive of a systematic campaign of annihilation. One that is documented, btw, well outside the evidence of just one man (adrian zen). The canadian goverment has nothing in comparison to what the CCP has regarding its indigenous population. So, tbh I think even trying to compare the two is quite dumb. For more as to how genocides tend to be classed and what courts do, I suggest reading the cases such as Prosecutor v. Krstic (2004) ICTY and Bosnia and Herzegovina v Serbia and Montenegro [2007] ICJ 2. Both cases helped to establish why the srebrenica massacre was a genocide.

[@jakeboswell3624]

Conversations like these are why online politics is stupid. Two people who agree that shitty things are happening to indigenous people in Canada argue over a word for an hour.

[@ribby9069]

Destiny: but it doesn’t look like they’re trying to commit genocide. This guy: intent doesn’t matter, it’s outcome Destiny: (shows enormous population growth) outcome? This guy: intent! This should have been the end of the discussion

[@LuciusSicarius]

30:00 As soon as the guy said he was half indigenous, it just all made sense why is so desperate for this situation to be called a genocide against indigenous people. Dude wants those ultra sexy victim points. Also love the fact that this guy is trying so hard (unsuccessfully) to paint Canadians as genocidal monsters yet keeps accusing Destiny of being the one that needs some cartoon villain.

[@hliasgew8139]

morning coffee with destiny

[@socraytes]

First argument. Destiny - "Why do you think there's a genocide going on today in Canada?" Guy - "Because it's systemic" LOL what?! What a dronish answer.

[@berserker8884]

Yeah. And I thought this was obviously about the bodies, the church burnings, etc, but no just a boring old retarded "debate", where they can't agree on a definition of a genocide.

[@JC-qe6vl]

He couldve just went along with the intent argument and said that there are policies with the unstated/implied intent of removing indigenous people. For example the policies in china mostly do not directly state anything about Uighurs but rather behaviors and cultural customs that pretty much would only target Uighurs.

[@picardcook7569]

Is there an "irl" rebuttal to this?

[@nootboot9744]

I would argue that masked intent is still intent. No one would argue that it was not the specific goal of the policy makers who designed and implemented Jim Crow in the South to disenfranchise newly freed African Americans. Just becuase a policy disproportionately affects a group of people does not mean that it was the true intent of the drafters of that policy.

[@qrowanthony6636]

Man We needed someone better to stand up for our cause here granted both sides have so much to learn from but I’m happy to heard we getting our word out there Let’s remember the children lost and pray for a better tomorrow

[@Nex47128]

Music makes it intense af, lol.

[@mavejak5021]

This was painful like two minutes in when we busted out the definition of Genocide this debate was over And it only got worse

[@lucasparham5068]

Intention is the most important thing of all in terms of whether we are going to sleep the Genocide label on a situation. Read the UN history of the word, it’s historical use and dictionary definitions. It’s straightforward.

[@3112-x9r]

So, hypothetically, if an ethnic group was wiped out by a regime through violent means and intent could not be inferred, then what term describes this?

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

@@3112-x9r how can there be violent means without intent?

[@Dizzifying1]

@@cabbagedestroyer1693 3rd degree murder is exactly this.

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

@@Dizzifying1 3rd degree there is still intent of harming the person

[@cabbagedestroyer1693]

@@Dizzifying1 [t]he unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated without any design to effect death, by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any felony other than You are actually wrong on that one. I know this because there was a specifically case where someone in the gun range accidentally fired and shot and someone and they werent charged with 3rd degree murder

[@xenusprophet3001]

I could be wrong, but a quick Google of "genocide" says it's "the protagonist killing every possible monster in the Underground. "

[@anichesweater4168]

Pacifist run

[@wuptopful]

What if there were a bunch of laws passed with genocidal intent. Then a few generations down the line the government doesn't have genocidal intent but is uninterested in reversing the "genocidal" laws. Would this be systemic genocide but not active genocide? See systemic racism

[@markallen6433]

What if? It's not the case in Canada or America. They both changed their laws.

[@wuptopful]

@@markallen6433 I'm not saying they didn't which is why I said what if. My only point is that we might extend our understanding to describe a systemic genocide in which intent cannot be inferred on the current governing body. Hence a relaxation of the definition of genocide in one specific case. I think then we might have a more meaningful discussion about where that boundary is and label abhorrent systems that don't fall under the strict definition of genocide.

[@ogolthorp]

If nothing has changed then imo it would still be genocidal, because those intentional actions are still in place.

[@shanemoody529]

idk if the message in the corner saying what game destiny is playing is new or not but that's a nice touch.

[@polosaquarium691]

These are the same people that would love to have gulags.

[@KayefX]

that guy is drooling stupid. those long pauses were brutal.

[@maximumrpg3707]

The guy sounds drunk or high.

[@megafanflash]

Respect to him for actually engaging with Destiny, answering questions, etc. He probably did a far better job than Lance ever would.

[@LoreReloaded]

Even Serfstv isn't this uneducated.. I can see why he looks up to them..

[@steveng6704]

The United States government also forcibly removed indigenous children through the foster system. The Indian Children Welfare Act of 1978 was signed to end this practice. This debate was kinda weird, your country's systemic racism is not as bad as my country's systemic racism.

[@ethologos2580]

Remember kids, don't drink and debate.

[@RileyGraceRoshong]

I don't know why, but a ton of lefties online don't care at all about intent. Side note: Negligence specifically captures when someone causes harm WITHOUT intending to cause that harm.

[@soulsborne1513]

The problem, it seems, is the same as with the word 'terrorism'. People tend to use words like this, because illicits a strong emotional response, mostly unintentionally. When something horrible is happening, it can be difficult to be content with calling extremely tragic events, or severe ongoing problems, something that doesnt illicit the same powerful response. You can for instance cause extreme harm and social unrest, in a very violent act, without it having to be terrorism. Just because the outcomes are simmilar in terms of how much harm is caused, doesnt mean its the same thing, as the intent is what matters here. I would believe its the same with genocide. I guess my point in short terms is: We dont have to call something genocide or terrorism in order to recognize the severety of the damage done. And its probably better, as Destiny mentioned, if we attack the problems as they are, so we can be more lazer focused on the things that need to be fixed.

[@hermithouse]

Except when it comes to First Nations people in Canada, intent was definitely there and it is an ongoing issue. So while this guy is a moron, Destiny is again being deliberately and intentionally ignorant on this topic as well. Destiny likes to accuse others of debating in bad faith, but he is debating a topic (again) which he clearly knows nothing about and couldn’t care less to look into but insists isn’t real because reasons.

[@soulsborne1513]

@@hermithouse yeah it seemed like destiny wasn't really that well informed on this issue, and I'm not either, which is why I probably wouldnt argue about it at all. But it's pretty hard for me to imagine that the systemic problems they face are because of a deliberate ongoing attempt to eradicate a whole ethnic group. I might be wrong, and the Canadian government might even be that insidious, but if what is happening are mere results of previous racist or even genocidal laws, that the government at this time is failing to address, i would still find it weird to call it a genocide. But it doesnt really matter if this is technically a genocide or not. It oesnt change the severity of the problem in my eyes. But again, I might be wrong here, so don't take this as a serious addition to the discourse. Have a good day!!

[@jeepeesee5139]

The wonderful technique of handing your opponent a piece of rope and then just patiently guiding him through the motions of tying his own hands behind his rhetorical back. Lol. Is there a term for that?!

[@crazymonk27]

This guy declaring things genocide is the same as Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy

[@DavidM-es9qq]

I think it would help if Destiny had a better understanding of the issue before deciding if it’s a genocide.

[@DSPHistoricalSociety]

The Serfs makes me embarrassed to think lots of times

[@ryanwilson7004]

these edits are getting cooler and cooler. And I'm all for it!

[@ralph2689]

Destiny said “Winnipeg” this is better than the Simpsons

[@YoloSupa]

as usual, its again all about definitions..... ALWAYS is. if we cant even agree on the definitons of words, forget about being able to identify (and then resolve) the problem.