Dhoruba Bin Wahad: Police Are Not Unionized Labor. They Are Armed Agents of the State!

[@august_3rd]

The breakdown of them not being a union because they are not workers was 🔥 and going at them isn't about them it's about the state 🔥

[@user-ve7jt7ht5s]

Excellent and illuminating discussion. Will be rewatching. I hope y’all 3 can continue this programming, it’s critical!

[@anastasiarenaud2568]

This was a brilliant conversation. Should be required viewing for everyone in the streets marching. I need someone to read with.

[@michaeltee4275]

Good to see Dhoruba's back.

[@jamesnadell1998]

Hiram is incredibly sober and serious. How meaningful it is to see three generations of enlightened thinkers interacting on this platform. Theory meets practice.

[@dreofonusteesdotcom]

Another great session and my copy of Tip of the Spear arrived! Thanks for the continued teachings.

[@tao_jones_average]

Thanks Hiram ! Much love

[@antondalemma5484]

Dharuba, as usual, nails it right at the top of his contribution to this issue.

[@antondalemma5484]

Dentists and Doctors have national professional and political associations. We never refer to these bodies as "unions". Why do smart people constantly refer to cop ASSOCIATIONS as unions. Been a union man all my life, half of which was in a public sector union. I find it thoroughly insulting and absolutely dangerous to refer to these corrupt bodies as unions.

[@Born-Liberated_EmpatheticWorld]

Thank you Jared for bringing such high level politics and political praxis to us. This is 4D chess.

[@jamesnadell1998]

Even if you disagree w everything DBW says (which I don't), you cannot doubt the sober minded and hard core nature of the matetialist analysis he brings. Any forum he is involved with, from revolutionary to mainstream, he would elevate. OC he won't ever get close to any mainstream platforms. That's everyone's loss. He needs to be heard if for no other reason than he makes us think and question our own pre-existing understandings. Good on you Dr Ball for platforming DBW. One question: How are you managing to avoid demonitizing and deplatforming? You are very agile to do so.

[@michaeltee4275]

Education must begin with a radical understanding of civics and public safety.

[@antondalemma5484]

Rank and file cops do not have UNIONS. They are professional ASSOCIATIONS. Not one of these N. Amer bodies had "union" in its title. Until the early 00 they did not even have connection to any larger union movement, and then ONLY ONE is registered with AFL-CIO, invited by most reactionary wing of Union movement (Trades) and under constant review near expulsion. Not only do cops ignore picket lines, they strike break for capital. Finally, there is volumes of political literature across the political spectrum decisively concluding that any move to "unionize" armed instruments of the State is inherently destructive to truly democratic instruments of authority, essentially eroding public authority over armed wings of the State. Having battled one of the most corrupt cop "unions" in Canada (Toronto Police ASSOCIATION) in the mid 90s, I have waged a battle on the left to get people to stop referring to these corrupted bodies as unions. They are f'n ASSOCIATIONS with little if any accountability either to senior command and most definitely treat public oversight and authority as a joke.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

Correct me if I'm displaying ignorance here, but isn't the difference between calling them unions and calling them associations immaterial, if the associations play the roles that a union would play - namely a collective negotiation between the association members and their employers, in which the members leverage their organizational unity to force their employers into certain beneficial terms of employment? It even sounds like what you're saying here supports that point: the literature you refer to concludes that unionizing the armed agents of the state would erode democratic control over them. But that's exactly the situation we're in, as you yourself say: these associations have little accountability either to their own senior command or to public oversight. If I'm missing your point, I want you to help me get it. But it doesn't sound like changing the language from "union" to "association" changes the actual facts of the situation.

[@antondalemma5484]

Two points. One, as mentioned in one of my comments, cops actively assist in strike breaking, strike disruptions and organizing activities as the request of owners. #1rule of all unions is "you don't cross picket lines. and Twp. The union movement has always dedicated efforts to gain social improvements outside of workplace and to a much larger community, spending a great deal of dues identifying underlying and macro economic causes of poverty and disparity. Cops do "black and white" criminals vs. law abiding citizens theory ... at best. An Association is no more then a self-protecting instrument to further one's narrow interests and rarely, if ever, questions capitalist dogma. No one calls the American Association of Dentist the "Dentist Union." As a 3rd point. If cops are unions why does not one of these gangs have "union" in their title. It is important because language is important. Referring to them as unions suggests they are fighting for the working class and gives them a false nobility. Nothing could be further from the truth. They, as our OG guest opened up with, exist to protect property and manage the poor(er). Calling them unions is copaganda which we actively perpetuate. You ask what would it change. For starters, the conversation. Moreover, anything to dismantle this false nobility and place of public worship cops enjoy would save a great many people from unjust imprisonment, injury and what is clearly a substantial death toll. These outrageous population control practices are most protected not by corrupt political leaders or even cop management but by the clearly stated positions of the armed gangs known as Police Associations. I truly appreciate your questions @Dorian_sapiens

[@michaeltee4275]

Teach, brother! This history is important.

[@elonevora]

Incredible discussion.

[@michaeltee4275]

Just like the police in Jackson, Mississippi recently committed vehicular homicide against a brother, buried him in a 'pauper's' grave and refused to notify his family,

[@williecody5549]

The State have been out of control when dealing with us.

[@shawnbates393]

Very informative now I will take this analysis and share it with the grassroots

[@brianpitman3811]

Absolutely Loved this conversation and hate the panel in Montreal can’t be filmed.

[@marcelpblack]

Dhoruba & Hiram are the GOAT 1-2 punch. They need a show bad.

[@kcailly1]

As a recent law school grad i like DBW's idea od using the law to put injustice on blast. I think the youth should be more knowledgeable about the law and injustice system.

[@michaeltee4275]

Community control of the police must entail a THOROUGH education around public safety, i.e., what it really means and who should control it and why.

[@michaeltee4275]

Control of the police on a community level PENDING abolition.

[@michaeltee4275]

My only problem with this is: that how many of these nonprofit organizers recognize and admit to the limitations of these nonprofits. It appears that many are posturing as rindependent radicals.

[@GeecheeYaw]

killer mike exposed in the first 8 mins!!!!!

[@iiNgONYaMa]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@UncleB71]

This was pure fire!

[@michaeltee4275]

And communities SHOULD be a part of all contracts concerning the institutions affecting their lives, as laborers and stakeholders.

[@denzelshabazz]

OG looks like Me In the Morning’s with that Rag on lol S/O BRO. DHORUBA one time for keepin it Authentic ✊🏾😂

[@michaeltee4275]

I wonder what Ras Baraka's father, Amiri, would think about how his son is 'governing' the city of Newark.

[@michaeltee4275]

For our Palestinian teach-in on November 12, here in Louisville, Kentucky, we're beginning our analysis with the break-up of the Ottoman Empire.

[@michaeltee4275]

Good points, Dhoruba.

[@michaeltee4275]

An honest assessment.

[@craigbardo]

Hiram spittin from Lenin’s State and Revolution (Marx and Engles properly analyzed)! You don't read Beloved!

[@michaeltee4275]

The media is the message

[@michaeltee4275]

Yes, Gilmore, Kelley, and Ransby arei mportant radical intellectual/activists.

[@gregoryjones5763]

Race soldiers-in-blue.

[@michaeltee4275]

Crump is cleaning up on these cases.

[@antondalemma5484]

There is only one union in a position that could be "decertified". All the others aren't even connected to a union certification body.

[@michaeltee4275]

Present policing feeds mass incarceration.

[@nellekzer7148]

29:00

[@michaeltee4275]

Hmmm. Crime declined during the pandemic . . .

[@michaeltee4275]

Too much 'black' nationalism obscures, imo, a cogent class analysis of public safety.

[@michaeltee4275]

Irrefutable.

[@JoelLittle-mm8ed]

Yeah but who counts the votes

[@jcjcviews]

Jared, can you tell us where this beautiful music comes from in your intro.? Stop the gatekeepers! De-unionize the police! Greetings, Brother DBW. ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE! Free access to the internet, the town square! Speak out while you can, good people. My two cents for today.🤨🥲😐😇