Diablo Was Always Headed to Hell

[@KBash]

I keep seeing weirdo comments. Hey: this vid is 4+ years old and I've been about 8 different people since then. Wipe your ass before walking in here, thanks. The usual response, when one mentions they don't fully agree with how they handled an old video, is "delete it then!" Listen, I don't make money on this one any more. I keep it up because I fundamentally disagree that we should tell young creatives "cut out every part of you except the stuff that's marketable." I've been a work in progress for years, and my output should reflect that, not that people actually bother to check dates or like, assume human beings have the capacity for growth. This video predates Kingdom Hearts. This video predates becoming stable on the platform and me developing a language to talk about games. I hate that I even have to post this stuff, because yeah, unfortunately a snapshot of a past self isn't a great conveyer of the growth that came after.

[@waltlock8805]

The algorithm blesses who it will, who are we mortals to understand its ways? I've got the same feelings you did for the first game, but I probably liked Hellfire a bit more than you (I love that Lovecraftian Horror with a side of British Comedy).

[@santiagomorales9129]

Do you think any different that in the video?? then you can rectify or ratify. I don't care about your personal growth.

[@LanaDavidson-e2x]

You're just being held accountable for what you said. You're likely responsible for a lot of people having a very warped perspective over the criticism given to Diablo 3, and I believe a lot of people want you to at least acknowledge that although this video presents itself as a fair, personal analysis, it is very blatantly trying to push an agenda to dismiss fair complaints about Diablo 3. If you really have underwent such a great personal growth, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss your past mistakes as trivial without considering their lasting effects.

[@waltlock8805]

@@LanaDavidson-e2x This video is trivial. We're people talking online about a video game. It doesn't get much more trivial than that. Diablo 3 is the best selling Diablo game. Plenty of people love it, and it's not all because they watched this video. People have different tastes and opinions - crazy, I know.

[@LanaDavidson-e2x]

Every single decision you and I have made until this point have lead us both here. Don't be so quick to write-off the things you love as trivial; so long as you see value in it, then it is valuable

[@zephyrstrife4668]

To be fair, the problem with the phone games is the fact that the loot boxes are often pay to win. With Diablo 2 the loot that came in the game was already built in without needing to pay for it.

[@sh0gun17]

You didn't know the half of it

[@pixlman]

Honestly the complaints about atmosphere and tone didn't come from being essentially a boomer, rather from the feel that Diablo was starting to look like WoW

[@funkrobot9762]

Yeah the art direction for 3 was ass.

[@balderdasq8987]

That's a trend I've noticed with Blizzard's 3d games. The original StarCraft had a really dark and grungy art style, but in 2 everything looked way more cartoonish and "WoW-like". Hell, WoW was already doing that with the original Warcraft games.

[@Idealist_Metaphor]

Let’s be fr, Diablo has always just been dark single player wow

[@KazuhiraMiller46]

Agreed

[@Sirfortune881]

No ​@@Idealist_Metaphor

[@tabiBLAKEMORE]

Waited in line at Game Stop to pick up a hard copy of the game(it felt… wrong to just download it) while I was 8 months pregnant. Got it home stoked to play, and then found out that I couldn’t play until it went live PST… so 2 AM for me. It was a bummer, but I waited 12 years for this game so I stayed up. 2 AM finally rolled around and I got my game face on- then I got “error 43” x the next 3 days. Fuck Blizzard.

[@Pyro-Moloch]

I disagree that D2 doesn't have the atmosphere. While it might not be as in-your-face as D1, it's still there and still very strong. The sense of omnipresent evil is still there, it's just more subtle this time. The first act is very dark and oppressive and sets the tone for the rest of the game. By the time you step into the deserts, you know something evil is lurking beneath all the sunshine. You see all those ancient ruins and it plants in your mind the ideas of eternal evil, which existed since before the birth of humanity and will continue to exist, regardless of your futile attempts to stop it. Though you slaughter the hideous creatures in millions, you still feel like they're overpowering you. Like there's no end to it, because something way more powerful and dangerous is beyond all this. I still remember the first time I saw Andariel in the end of the first act. I genuinely shivered, as she ran out on me, saying something in this evil voice. I'd been so spooked on the way to meet her that her appearance was like a jumpscare. And I hadn't played D1 at the time so there was no pro-D2 or anti-D2 bias in my head, it was a completely genuine reaction. No, Diablo 3 couldn't compare. I feel like you went a bit overboard criticizing D2 in attempts to defend D3. D3 is a fine game, but D2 is one of the best games of all time and it absolutely deserves its status. The fact that you had to say "the game isn't bad, but..." makes me wanna dislike the video immediately. This has that vibe of a Watchmen movie fan defending the movie by shitting on the comic book. There are reasons why people disliked D3. They might not always understand or articulate them very well, but they exist. The game is very flawed and doesn't compare to the masterpiece that is D2.

[@jobin140]

I just picked up the remaster of D2, never played one but always wanted to as a friend of mine had D2 when I was a kid and I would watch him play. I'm very excited for this. Reason I liked your comment and am commenting myself is your comment was spot on. I can't compare and criticize any of the Diablo games, but it's pretty blatant they took somewhat of a wrong turn with D3. Doesn't mean the game is shit just that at least from a visual pov it's a wrong turn. What fascinated me about D2 was the semi realistic art style and hud. Something about the game not being very vibrant either really did add to the atmosphere and fit the theme of rpg dungeon crawler in which you're hunting demons. I felt this youtuber went out of his way to go against the grain and be more harsh than he should've on D2 and having never played there were points in the video where he'd say something and I'd think to myself, as someone who hasn't played a Diablo game but am very much a fan of gaming and have played most genres and iconic gaming ips, that was a load of shit. Your watchmen comment works really well. Like the film and even the show are fine, but for those of us who read and have a good grasp as to what the comic was about, they're disappointing. No way can you authentically adapt a comics series like watchmen in a 2.5 hour film especially when you consider the meat of the story is reading letters the characters sent, or an excerpt from Hollis Masons book, or a character's diary. In terms of the show, the comic is actually self contained and needs no follow ups. There is no need for a sequel for watchmen. The story was told. If you feel like something is missing and needs to be fleshed out, then you need to re-read the comic because it means you misunderstood the story. So point being, I have empathy for those fans that resent D3. They just feel like something they loved was kind of butchered. There was a style and aesthetic to the game and how it worked that was altered and in turn as opposed to evolving the series, took it in a direction that alienated it's fan base and that hurts. It hurts because it's done by the very company that had a hand in creating the game, in the same sense that anyone who understands watchmen understands that not only is the show not needed, ultimately it can only serve to harm the legacy of Watchmen in the eyes of a broader audience of those who don't know the difference, because the comic effectively stuck the landing. Why flesh something out more with different creators who don't understand the source material like the original 2 did. Especially when it comes to Dr. Manhattan. He's the type of character beyond our understanding that you don't want to overexplain, but when you pay attention he is explainable, because it confines the character even more making it easier to scrutinize the logic of the narrative.

[@src175]

A-are you replying to yourself? It legitimately feels like you replied to yourself here.

[@Pyro-Moloch]

@@src175 it wouldn't feel that way if you watched the video.

[@MrSupersonic2012]

There's a reason so many fans of Diablo dislike the direction D3 took. Diablo 1 and 2 both have a very consistent tone. It's dark and oppressive, you need to build yourself up to stand against the forces of hell. Diablo 3 is not a bad game by any means, but it's definitely a bad sequel. The devs took streaming the process too far and made the game too easy. The tone is generic fantasy where you're the chosen one who's predestined to kill Diablo and only YOU can do it. Snore.

[@alosayefmujtaba]

no opening joke ? no intro song and title? WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE SOME SERIOUS STUF

[@CalliphoriBae]

You missed one of the biggest critiques of Diablo 3 at launch: the mandatory always online requirement. With the first two games, not only did you never have to play multi-player, you could also play the game at any time. Whether or not the experience was better solo vs. multi is subjective, but the option was still there nonetheless. In D3, virtually everything at launch catered to the idea of multi-player. The auction house, the always online requirement, the intentionally weak/rare loot drops, etc. Just worth mentioning since you mentioned several times that you preferred solo play, yet neglected to mention how vanilla D3 seemed against it.

[@chrispratt3666]

D3's skill system completely prevents me from feeling invested in my character. It is extremely shallow. Contrary to what you said most classes I played can easily breeze through the game on 1 ability. D2's skill system encourages experimentation and when you create something good you can feel like you made it. Even if your character ends up mostly using 1 ability there is an entire network of synergies and supporting skills that lay the foundation beneath it. The game play ends up being very similar but the depth is not comparable. Also people didn't have access to nearly as much information about games in the early 2000s. Build guides and the like were much less common. If you play Diablo2 for the first time and you use a build guide you are only cheating yourself. In D3 it would make no difference. BTW I didn't appreciate being mocked just for holding an opinion you disagree with.

[@pride2184]

clearly he is a diablo 3 shill. and doesnt understand the first two games. because have the things he says is wrong.

[@blackoutgstar9949]

diablo 3 was just not it too easy and mostly path following beat the full game fast without dying once

[@itsme-bk2ni]

Pride ever heard of opinions

[@heinokunzelmann8967]

Funnily enough ARPGs are like the embodiment of all 7 deadly sins in one.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

Can you elaborate on that?

[@SneedFeedAndSeed]

Lust - Charsi

[@BloodyDIMISIS55]

i have forgotten how much oppressive atmosphere the first diablo had and just now realized why i loved Demons souls...holy shit Souls is the Diablo of hack and slash games! the Grim dark world then enchanting town music with Random NPC that you may or may not find finish its side quests.

[@HasXXXInCrocs]

Its funny you say that because when KBash was talking about how dark things were in D1 I immediately thought of that prison zone in Demon Souls where you couldn't see ten feet in front of you. Souls really is the embodiment of a modern diablo game.

[@lolailo2199]

I haven't paid taxes since 2004

[@JibanExE]

Nah, souls is way bether \[T]/!!

[@BloodyDIMISIS55]

@@TheAngelOfTheBottomlessPit lol ok then what do you call it?

[@KiddDaPhoenix]

Souls is Castlevania meeting Diablo 1 with Metroid story telling, imo.

[@samc6974]

I lost my hardcore barbarian in the 3rd act on my first playthrough in D3 due to a server crash. A fallen killed me and it really left a sour taste in my mouth for the entire game mostly due to its "ALWAYS ONLINE!" feature.

[@Agreel]

At least it's not a thing on consoles. :)

[@RolieKloeOlie]

@@Agreel When I got it for the switch it felt great playing offline. Until I got my whole set and rifts bored me. The item progression and "end game" pissed me off

[@jeffreybarker357]

Sam C Credit to Gearbox for having Borderlands 3 still have offline and SPLITSCREEN! modes still available. They’ve probably learned from this exacting thing you’re mentioning.

[@huzaifaniazi5041]

Fallen's don't spawn in act 3 buddy

[@kotzer71]

@@jeffreybarker357 to bad borderlands 3 kinda blows

[@Bobson_Dugnutt_Esq]

I had gotten Diablo III for 2.99, used, on the XBox 360 on a whim. Playing it on console, with a controller, completely changed it for me. As a dungeon crawler successor to D2 I can see how it falls short. But it truly shines as a beat-em up with experience and loot systems. I'm being 100% serious here. Diablo III feels the way that I *wish* Dungeon Fighter and other modern Brawler/RPGs attempts felt.

[@michaelohalloran9598]

Did the exact same when it originally came out on Xbox 360 couldn't agree more

[@klonoaguntz8309]

You explained why this is my favorite game in the series

[@agentorange7918]

Yep you are absolutley right. It's a couch game that you can play with your brain in standby mode after a day of work. Nothing more and nothing less.

[@nobody2021]

As someone who never played Diablo 1 or 2 online, and played 1 way more than 2, I can say with full confidence that my criticisms of Diablo 3 when it came out, and still to this day, are 100% about it's botched atmosphere. 2 lost a lot of the atmosphere of 1, but it had enough in common with 1 graphically that it still at least kinda felt like diablo. Diablo 2 was just mildly estranged from 1, but 3 was full on divorced and removed.

[@Realunmaker]

I remember making a barbarian that could squeeze potions out of corpses. I guess it was not a particularly good build for higher difficulties, but it carried me well to diablo and baal while paying itself selling potions well into the third town and never needing to buy potions and never running out of potions in tough encounters. I miss playing diablo 2 for the first couple of times. It was a magical experience.

[@McFatson]

I loved the part at 39:35 where the shrine says "You feel ready for battle" and the necromancer is immediately swarmed and beaten to death.

[@TheFos88]

Story of my life.

[@belurso5179]

I feel like this was a bit rushed. The 'discussion' about the environments in D2 amounted to "I don't like this, so it's definitely bland", but you just simplified everything to a point where I could say "Dark Souls is about grimy places and sometimes dragons, how original". Skipping over items in D2 is a major mistake as a lot of outright bizarre or stupid builds worked because of specific combinations, just as mentioning that Stamina Potions are a MUST HAVE was.. weird? I mean, if you want to charge a bunch of enemies as a scrawny necromancer wielding a stick, you'll surely get blasted.. but you clearly have ranged options and not enough mana potions for those. Stamina was a huge failure when it came to exploring places, but it wasn't a vital combat stat that made or broke some builds.

[@kummakummakummakummakummac8606]

His whole video is "I don't like that so it must be bad".

[@dallasno2.070]

My only Complaint about 3 is that the character creation has no weight to it, nothing is permanent, and that's why I like Diablo 2 much more.

[@DeepCDiva]

I'm not the biggest fan of the series, so take this with a grain of salt, but Diablo 3 never really grabbed me because the blockier artstyle, the bombardment of colors, the generic music and the unfocused "do-all" characters made the game feel more bland, disconnected from the aesthetic intent the previous ones had and lacking in the challenge i expected. I like the changes to the portal system, and it's a shame the game total lack of atmosphere couldn't capitalize on that. I surprisingly liked the skill system changes, but i understand how a hardcore fan, eager to finally experiment with tons of different builds, felt that the new system was too easily solvable; much less of a creative outlet and how the slow-rolling of new abilities was more painful to endure. These people probably WANTED "wrong builds" to exist in the game, to dabble in the sub-optimal, in the weird, the challenging, to ultimately make their experience unique, and the new system doesn't work that way. I also don't like the "chosen one" approach. Say what you will about the dissonance of the first two games, I saw the journey my no-name-Amazon went through to become a demigod against Hell, it felt more earned and personal than suddenly being "the chosen one" and then grinding with your other "chosen" friends(Which makes even LESS sense.). Your stroke of luck against The Butcher was honestly more endearing to me than any of the bombastic moments in Diablo III's story.

[@DeepCDiva]

Edited to make it easier to read, lol, didn't meant it to be this long. I really enjoyed the analysis, specially regarding the evolution of the tone of the series, just felt that the end was perhaps too overly-defensive because of the insane hatred towards Diablo III and the analysis suffered a bit from it.

[@JohnnySnipshow]

D3 didn't have blockier visuals bruh

[@KiddDaPhoenix]

I want "wrong builds" indeed. I have so many fond stories of first playthroughs in many games, not just Diablo, where I had made big decisions not truly understanding the full game. I had to make do, succeed with my character who was by no means a mythical chosen one in story or gameplay alike. Then I could use everything I learnt for my second character. That was -my- chosen one. I have sorceresses who rely on melee combat (why are they so good with huge axes? Don't know, but it's awesome), necromancers who rely on hit&run tactics and paladins who have incredibly weak attacks but buff the crap out of their party. These may not be the best of the best overall builds, but I have gotten great success with them. With the paladin in particular, I have fond memories of getting texts from friends asking me if I'm gonna come online later today, cause friends wanted to play and they had grown so reliant on my paladin keeping the party functional they had built offensive power houses who did not function well without me. Diablo 3 does not allow for this sort of customisation.

[@westheking12]

To me the new Diablo 2 remaster is what Diablo 3 should've looked like.

[@natanportan1676]

Whatever complaint about D2 atmosphere getting ruined by multiplayer can be applied to D1 too, that game had multiplayer as well, also quite broken due to characters and items kept clientside which allowed for easy stat edits and cheating. First time getting to Diablo in vanilla D2 (before LoD was a thing), with messy character that didn't follow any build, was nerve wrecking, not because of just panic, Chaos Sanctuary the first time around can be genuinely scary with top tier monsters crawling over the place, casting curses on you, draining your mana, being able to quickly dispose of you, and Diablo surprising you with his deadly lightning breath. D1 has more panic than genuine scare too, like all your mentions of big groups that counter your character and force you to escape to town over and over for potions. Of course either game is not gonna be as scary to anyone who looks up even a basic build guide, and knows how to zip through the game. Also, you are talking of atmosphere and focusing on single player experience by dismissing the multiplayer aspect, or loot grind, but also disregard the plot for the most part? Weird. Character respecs in D2 also came very late, with patch 1.13 in 2009, but you mention it like a basic feature to the game, so I assume you started playing the game fairly late too. Picking wrong skills is still your learning process, corpse explosion is very strong, but if you go solely for that expect having problems is certain situations. One build will be harder than the other, or in endgame you won't be able to farm certain places that has monsters immune to your main element, while other classes will zip through them - while underperforming in your prefered farming spot. Giving player choice means giving them the capacity to make mistakes.

[@WednesdayLLN]

I completely agree.🤝

[@daminit6]

beautifully written comment, can't agree more on "Giving player choice means giving them the capacity to make mistakes." player choice doesn't = whatever the player choose they win, mistakes are part of learning and without them we never learn.

[@notmyrealID]

He's a writer, so he does need to have a point to draw in viewers. So you won't get a perspective of someone who has player 200h+ of both games. Still makes fair points even though I don't agree with all of them

[@CraneoHR]

No cap

[@muzdravmachaka3647]

"We dont like skill system of D3." KBash: "Well, I like it and you are just wrong! There can't be two different tastes!"

[@andreiiiksavvv6054]

Double standard

[@johnnnyjr8936]

As someone who liked 2 over 3. The problem for me was the appeal you see. I was okay with trying a build that ended up not working, or a build THAT ONLY worked in multiplayer. You act like there weren't genuine connections online, I had friends we would take turns playing different characters until the end. We would specifically make characters to make a full party, or make like 1 Barb 1 Paladin and 2 Ranged heroes that all complimented each other. Then have separate PVP builds. I'm guessing you just had a bad experience online by not having good online friends to play with. That's understandable. Some people find World of Warcraft Immersive and fun and "wow me and my friends." WOW is an impressive game, and is fun don't get me wrong. But I don't have any friends who play the game, so whenever I've tried to get into it I run into a wall where it's like "Oh cool me and 4 randoms are gonna go do this dungeon" "Wow one is calling one is calling me Hate Speech and 2 are AFK.... such immersion.... such cool."

[@yzwme586]

D2 has the best loot chase of any game. People play 20 years without seeing a truly gg item such as a JMOD, godly 5-6 point rings, 6/40 javs, godly 2/20 amulets/circlets, 30/20 tri res boots, etc. That is why a lot of people still play is chasing those kinds of items. #1 all time favorite game of mine

[@chrisdavey5530]

this is actually what I dont like about D2.....it got to the point where I just used an item editor, cus I got tired of doing andy runs and just wasnt getting anything good to beat duriel, I actually stopped playing after they patched the game (13 or 14 I think) to make udietoo not work anymore by moving your save file.

[@peen2804]

At that point just buy lottery tickets

[@red5wormy165]

The stop motion is what makes the demons so creepy, and realistic looking.

[@gefehede7783]

Their is no stop motion. It's 3d renderings that they took pictures of and formed frames into for animations.

[@red5wormy165]

@@gefehede7783 Interesting, well that was the better way in my opinion.

[@gtdfg4594]

The following is supposed to be constructive criticism, I really respect your channel, opinions and your videos on Soulcalibur, specially. I think I should mention this because I might pass the wrong impression. I find your perspective on Diablo 2 lacking, this coming from a huge fan of the game, so if you read this, take it with a grain of salt. As someone who exclusively replays Diablo 2 for the single player campaign every so often, I think you undersold the game’s strengths while trying to prop up D3, even though you mentioned you wouldn’t “poison the well”. *COMPARISONS* The main reason so many people compare D2 to D3 is that the games are very similar in structure, which was not the case for D1 and D2, since the first game’s focus was traversing the chilling depths of the evil afflicted Tristram, rather than traveling the world to stop the actions and the rise of Diablo, the latter description working for both D2 and D3. You’ve made an excellent review of D1, btw. No complaints there. *ATMOSPHERE* First of all, I agree wholeheartedly that D2 lost much of the atmosphere that made D1 feel special. This is something I always took for granted, and I found strange that the people you mentioned in the video praised its atmosphere that much. Personally, I’ve never heard someone loving D2’s atmosphere that much, but I could be wrong, since I’ve always seen the praise for the world and the gameplay, in particular. D2 sacrificed the atmosphere of D1, and filled the void with engaging gameplay and story, with the protags following the fallen hero of the first game (it loses a bit of the appeal as it goes on, but I think it works well nonetheless.) *BUILDS AND LEVELS* Leveling up is very simple, since the stats show what they affect at the level up screen. Need more strength? Invest into strength. More health? Vitality. Want to cast more spells? Mana. It’s really easy to understand. Speaking of the Necro, my personal favorite, you can invest in points you wouldn’t be investing later on in order to survive the early game better, or you can choose to push through the harder start to have a powerful necro earlier on, maybe needing to buy certain equipment to keep up. It’s not the most deep thing ever, but it has enough depth to make it much more engaging when compared to D3. But if you combine this with the skill tree that has every ability available to read about makes it that you can plan a run of the game before even playing it, which has kept me coming back to experience its addictive and delicious gameplay. *WORLD EXPLORATION* Exploring the world is more detailed than you make it seem, I think. Specially considering the smooth difficulty progression (fallen with shamans -> with blue fallen -> with blue shaman..), optional harder mini-dungeons that reward you with more quality loot, discovering enemy camps, new enemies that work in a different way (casting electricity on being hit, reviving enemies...), leveling up at a good pace and completing quests by searching the area, without having to rely on quest markers. However, the open areas are very wide, and keeping up the pace without managing stamina potions can take a while. *NECROMANCER AND THE GAME’S EXPECTATIONS* The game is more filled with enemies when compared to D1, but it takes into account that you’re making use of your class’ strengths to combat the hordes of enemies, putting more importance into how you build your character. Playing with the Necro is harder because he has to manage a lot of skills and the undead, while being very fragile. I know not everything is obvious on the first playthrough, and I hate saying this, since it makes the game appear more limited than it actually is, but the main strength of the Necromancer in D2 is raising the undead and casting debuffs on your enemies to weaken them, finishing the job or adding extra protection with your spells. You seem to have invested mostly in casting spells, by the looks of most of your footage, which is ok if you want to, but you aren’t making use of his strengths (that the game tells you in the class selection screen), coupled with the fact that the Necro is a class that requires a bit more than most other classes (but the game doesn’t say anything about that) makes for a harder experience. If you want to play the class focuses on casting spells, you should play the Sorceress. Although D3 takes some blame in this since it made the Necro incredibly overpowered and took away most of the things that made playing him feel much more unique than the other classes in D2. *ONLINE AND BEING GOOD ON ITS OWN* This one tends more to the subjective side. The following is my opinion, but it can (and should) be criticized and discussed if you find anything off with it. I find your online arguments rather weak. Yes, Diablo 2 had (has) a huge online scene, but I don’t think that most of Diablo 3’s critics stem from there, much less that the online limits the full artistic extent that the game can represent, specially when you can be perfectly okay playing and replaying alone. I have huge respect for a replayable game or a game that allows the player to flourish with what he/she chose (not always one and the same characteristic), and I can get plenty of entertainment from D2. This is the only game, to my knowledge, that executes a necromancer in such an entertaining manner, with a meaningful context to play him in. The game stands perfectly on its own without the online component, and it can potentially be even more fun with it, I just didn’t care enough to explore. But I argue that the game doesn’t need the online to reach its highest point, because it offers enough challenge as it is to make grinding worth the bragging rights of having a strong character. The experience makes it worth it, at least in my opinion. *MORE COMPLEX THAN D3* The enemy group density is not nearly as excessive as in D3, except in the harder sections of dungeons, because it doesn’t need to make incredibly inflated enemies with powerful modifiers to stop the player’s ridiculous power and lack of resource managing in every encounter. D3 streamlines the experience so much that it felt mindless to play through, which, to be honest, is a problem that the series has always had because of its simple combat, but that it mitigated through its strengths, be it the atmosphere or the added complexity to the gameplay and world. *”DIABLO FUN GAME” ORIGINS* In the past, this troubled me quite a bit in finding out how D2 even is different from any kind of gatcha game. Then it hit me: Blizzard’s polish didn’t take over the depth and complexity of their games, yet. The builds and leveling systems, the presentation, challenging enemies, plentiful rewards, interesting characters, diverse and interesting (if a bit repetitive) world, amazing sound design, visual treats... Diablo 2, as I see it, is the perfect mixture of addictive gameplay and complex gameplay, making it feel extremely rewarding. It’s not my preferred type of game, but if I had to go with a “Diablo fun game”, it would most definitely be this one. *YOU’RE EITHER SUFFERING OR MAKING OTHERS SUFFER* I guess you can interpret in this way, but it is extremely toxic to your enjoyment of the game. D1 and D2 are games about making the most of what loot you can get. You can use that huge amount of money to buy enchanted items that relieve your lack of fantastic loot if you need it. You definitely can get strong as f*ck in D2, but you need to be VERY lucky or VERY dedicated. Most players get good characters by grinding their ass off to higher the chances of getting legendary loot. In that way, even though reliant on luck, getting good on this game still requires skill and effort in taking on the enemies on higher difficulties. D3, on the other hand, showers the player with so much good shit from the beginning that it needs to inflate enemies’ health pools, damage and modifiers in order to try to stop the unstoppable force the developers made the player be. Neither of them are ideal skill building systems, but one of them is at least enjoyable enough to not be compared to a clicker or a gatcha game. Getting stronger has much more value and is much more desirable in D2 than in D3 for me, but hey, that’s just because the ideia of attaining JPEGs with higher numbers with no effort isn’t as valuable to me as attaining JPEGs with higher numbers by repeatedly beating stronger enemies that actually offer a challenge. It is very easy to create reductive arguments. Keep that in mind.

[@gtdfg4594]

Not that anyone cares, but I haven’t watched your section on Diablo 3 yet. This response was typed with your statements of D2 and with my knowledge of D1, D2 and D3. Holy shit, that is it’s own can of worms. Not only you proped up Diablo 3 in a lackluster manner, you were also extremely disingenuous in lying about shit in Diablo 2 because you don’t know enough and, on top of that, you made genuine criticisms seem pointless just because D2 did them, WHICH IS NOT EVEN FUCKING TRUE. Research a topic you like next time before slamming a game you don’t even understand how to play correctly. If you treat people that are genuinely passionate about a game like addicts to a fucking drug lacking self-awareness blinded by nostalgia, you don’t deserve any respect from me. Understamd both sides of the debate before joining a side and calling others by labels.

[@cinnamaster420]

@@gtdfg4594 i mean he said he didnt manage to beat baal normal. thats kinda like the dude who wrote a bad review about cuphead because he didnt make it past the tutorial. video could be titled "dude talks about how panicky d2 is while continuosly running into monster packs"

[@asneakylawngnome5792]

Desert levels usually aren't my favorite levels in any video game, but for the mess that is Diablo 3 they made there desert level the only semi-memorable level in the game because of the town that gets raided by demons. For a second, a split second, it reminded me of Diablo 2 and actually had a Diablo-style atmosphere to it. Seeing the town covered in mutilated bodies and blood everywhere actually felt like that town got raided by actual demons instead of just nephalem fodder.

[@swallowedinthesea11]

II was excited about Diablo 4 and bought two for my 17 year old granddaughter and myself because she loves video games! We played together but she quit last week. She wasn't interested and although it brought us together I suspect the game was the problem. I'm 77 years old so I hope we can find another game to play together or Diablo 4 improves.

[@awesomebears]

Does your daugther really like to play different video games genres? I dont have context here, but i think a lot of younger people don't play ARPGs, its not neccessairly mainstream. (i.e. call of duty, minecraft, GTA, Forza) Im 24 and there are a lot of video games that my peers just wouldn't want to touch due to its prespective, graphics and real-life appeal. The only people I have met that play these kind of games, also don't go outside enough XD

[@schangzz]

man i cant put into words how much D2 influenced me as not only a gamer but as a person as well. Back in the prime D2 days there has never been another video game experience like it. You could have fun do whatever you want doesnt matter what build what character or how you play, i remember having my brothers and friends all playing together and just beating the game and getting the best gear possible before runewords, then the dueling outside of Rogue Encampment goood god such great times there, nothing will ever be able to amount to the greatness of D2 for me personally. It has litterally shaped how games are created today.

[@zenithquasar9623]

I’m a minority that loves Diablo for its theme and its world more so than its addictive loot chase.

[@klonoaguntz8309]

Phoenix Dawn you aren’t alone. Diablo actually has an impressive lore to it if you ever get around to reading on it.

[@fokkusuh4425]

I agree. I was fascinated by the lore the first time I played 1 & 2, and then I looked up what the pros in this game do for fun after completing the story and it's just mindless rolling for the perfect loot over and over again. "MuH hOlY GrAiL"

[@Jstar95175]

Also a minority! I don't care about loot, Beyond whatever I need to overcome the forces of hell. The atmosphere, tone, and the gothic drama is why I love Diablo 2. I still owe it to myself to play Diablo 1, but I could never get into Diablo 3. Granted, I only devoted about maybe an hour into it but the entire tonal shift was too much. I even tried starting with the Demon Hunter but what can I say? It didn't hook me

[@zenithquasar9623]

@@Jstar95175 I started D1 recently. It is really cut back from D2 but to me that makes it soo good because the struggle is real and everything toned down makes it more atmospheric and more survivaly.

[@jalenlueth5476]

Tf does being a minority have to do with the game

[@chonkytemmi4652]

Best ending ever. You like Diablo 1, play it, you like Diablo 2, play Diablo 2, you like 3, play 3. Play what you like.

[@GeorgePerakis]

Don't play any of them. Stop supporting shit company Activision Blizzard. Play Grim Dawn, Torchlight 2, Titan Quest, other games not made by Blizzard or Tencent. They're better games anyway.

[@PurposelessRabbitholes]

Woah dude, didn’t expect this today, hyped to watch!

[@bobeh8500]

Genuinely good video. I find it ridiculous that some are arguing that your whole point was to shit on their precious Diablo 2 when your overall critique of Diablo 2 was essentially “it’s Diablo 1 but way better in every aspect except atmosphere, and it deserves its good reputation” and your Diablo 3 critique was “it doesn’t deserve some of the criticisms levied at it and people put Diablo 2 on a pedestal in certain aspects solely to lambast Diablo 3 as bad, but Diablo 3 has some real flaws that still hurt it”

[@fedoratheexplora7180]

I love the diablo video but you miss the point of why people are upset about lack of customization. you never took loot into account. The loot in D3 does not matter your just looking for highest stats and nothing really feels special. But in d2 you can find items and save or trade them giving you a reason for trying and playing a different character. It really meant something when you found a stone of Jordan or the grandfather sword or a high rune. Also you can play say the barbarian several different ways depending on the loot you had. Frenzy, whirl wind, concentrate, war cry. The skill and stats tree is also simple enough in d2 if you just read what synergizes. yeah some people may completely screw it up at first but its still easy to learn. in D3 people still look up the best abilities and they all use the same spells anyways there is just no getting around that. But in D2 you cant do that if you don't have the proper gear. I hope this clears up why customization matters. I've been playing diablo since I was 5 and I gave D3 a good solid go and had to go back to D2 because it felt just too cookie cutter. Currently playing project diablo 2 super sick mod you should check it out.

[@netmantis7387]

Diablo 2's atmosphere was there and immersive, but it wasn't as in your face. The first act was littered with rogues. The character you saw as a choice for the first was the large amount of corpses you saw as you ran towards the corrupted citadel. The demons got stronger as you approached, and finally you found d the first real boss. A proper demon from hell. Each act was chasing the Prime Evils, being one step behind and playing a pursuit. As for the overall customization there were plenty of builds that were viable, a few that were optimum, and alot that were not. I played a necromancer that had a few strong minions and focused on melee attacks. It worked, but wasn't optimum. Loot was plentiful, but lots of it was useless. A sword that gives a bonus to fire skills. A staff that buffs war cries. Everything was randomized based on prefixes and suffixes. A Flaming sword of the Lion might give strength and fire damage. Or +5 hp. Of course if everything is random you need to drop loot all the time. Otherwise you might be blessed with a run on a sorceress that gives you a sword, a shield, full plate, a heavy helm and sabatons. Perfect for the mage on the go.

[@Kanji1Sawamatsu]

"You can't remember the hotkey to you inventory" Yeah... wtf did I just listen to?

[@Superschokokeks]

leave him alone! remembering I for Inventory is hard you know?===!1111

[@TylireousGaming]

@@Superschokokeks I always remap inventory to e

[@9e7exkbzvwpf7c]

I fundamentally disagree about the atmosphere of D2. The barracks and jail in Act 1 were a brutal dungeon crawl. I was dreading opening every door, fearful of what I would unleash. The first steps into the barracks, killing a pack, but hearing rattling in the distant dark and knowing there were more ahead but not how many there were. As I made my way further in the knowledge that I'd uncovered the waypoint and could return to town to restock on potions was offset by knowing that a single encounter could empty me of mana potions leaving me defenseless.

[@shawnnbits]

this guys the master of hyperbole

[@9e7exkbzvwpf7c]

@@shawnnbits that statement itself is hyperbolic Also my comment is in the same tone of this video and an accurate reflection of my first playthrough, sorry yours wasn’t as impression-making.

[@laztheripper]

You don't give d2 players enough credit, you just brush them off for not being able to grasp or really take the time to appreciate the atmosphere just because they happen to be playing online. That couldn't be further from the truth. And as far as using guides to have to play the game, I haven't heard of anyone who has to do this to complete the game and just because you've played all of a day and can't see past your own nose in terms of what builds are possible doesn't mean others didn't and aren't still making new diverse and unique builds. Git gud, and if you don't want to play a cookie cutter build, you can make your own.

[@bechtholdillustrator9378]

Word

[@Merlinmagi]

He's playing a Necro and didn't use the Skeletons and then complains about Panic. Necro is the squishiest because the necro is supposed to have his army fro crowd control.

[@TheRamblingSoul]

18:32 yeah, the Indiana Jones action movie feel to Diablo 2 is why I prefer Diablo 1 more. The atmosphere of dread is much more applicable to D1, not D2.

[@ablationer]

Besides, D1 plays a lot better nowadays with mods such as Beelzebub and Tchernobog, that fixes stuff like screen sizes and key binding. Makes it a lot more enjoyable.

[@Platonis-The-Warlock]

Almost no jokes, serious tone, 47 bloody minutes... Who the HELL are you, and what did you did to real KBash?

[@valletas]

To be fair i always think his jokes really misses the point most of the time I like this way more

[@the_wake_]

You touched on story very briefly given the "It doesn't really matter" point, which I agree with. But I think there's another point there that drives the distinction between 1, 2, and 3. 1's story is not really impressive. The in-game narrative is mostly "Go down, kill bad thing, maybe save boy(?)" The backstory is similarly sparse, with some interesting stuff about Horadrim and their history with the Prime Evils, but it's just little glimpses of something bigger. Both 2 and 3 seriously ratchet up the focus on the story and the world. But do you know what? I think 1 is the most successful in the story department *by far*. The simple quest and understated lore actually make the world more interesting to me, because what we see is so small and tight in its focus. It leaves you wondering how this little episode fits into what must be a larger world, with just the perfect amount of little dribbles to get your imagination going. By 2, and especially 3, we have hosts of characters and globe-spanning conflicts of constant world-shattering proportions, but it all falls flat to me. At the end of both, I was saying to myself "OK, so this is it. This is the extent of the world this story takes place in. It's all been made 100% explicit, and it turns out it's actually really boring." I think the reason for this is just that the Diablo formula (and perhaps the world of Sanctuary itself) isn't good for delivering interesting, nuanced stories. It's a game about running around and smacking the sh-HELL out of thousands of demons with as little down-time as possible. The cosmic scale of the conflict itself grossly outstrips the game's ability to deliver it convincingly. (This isn't to say that action-heavy games can't have good stories, but that Diablo as a whole isn't conducive to it.) And that's where IMO Diablo 1 got it right. Either consciously or otherwise, it played to that limitation of its formula and delivered exactly what it needed on the story and worldbuilding front. That focus you mentioned elevates the story to something that's actually pretty intriguing-as much for what you *don't* know as what you *do*. Trying to open that focus up so much with the sequels just undermined the strengths of 1's storytelling while the constant shifting locales and characters made it feel a lot less intimate.

[@Brapgod]

I honestly loved Diablo 3. That being said it was the first Diablo game I played, but I do defiantly think that the itemization from D2 is superior. I am cautiously optimistic about D4, as all I would really like is the combat of D3, the oppressive atmosphere of D1, and the itemization of D2.

[@krog2371]

Creepy Old Man i like that optimism, but d1 atmosphere and d3 gameplay is incompatible. The slow and limited controls of d1 does incredible things to the atmosphere. I recently played through d2 with a bowazon, but only used magic arrow, it was awesome. Sure, the fights were painfully long, but i had to dodge shit, with a slow character who had no get outa jail free card. It made everything feel so much bigger. That kind of gameplay is what i would want.(it took me 30min of shooting to kill diablo, it was great)

[@PeaceBe123]

Goddamned. I love how dark depressing and unnerving the original soundtrack was. It’s so damn good. It makes your soul ache.

[@Blue-ke5sb]

"God forbid you open a door unprepared" *PTSD when encountering electric lizards and spitting dogs intensifies*

[@paxonite-7bd5]

I can hear this comment

[@404cp]

The reason you don't remember the music from the later games is because theres no time! Diablo 1 had a slow and deliberate pace to the game. They kept increasing the game speed with each sequel until in 3 where youre just mashing all your abilities as fast as you can and theres a zillion special effects going off on the screen every second.

[@Luke90500]

Finally. Somebody said that diablo 3 isn't the worst game to grace this earth. I'm actually shocked that a person gave it a fair go. Fantastic review of all 3 games!

[@kihro]

No it's the worse diablo game not the worst game that title goes to Atari's E.T.

[@SonicTheFrenchHorn]

@@kihro There are games wayyyyy shittier than that.

[@kihro]

@@SonicTheFrenchHorn well ET was so bad they buried it. Not sure how anything can be worse. I mean dragons lair nes not even that bad.

[@markenjhon1894]

Luke90500 Ingave it a fair try but disliked it because it just was not a diablo game.

[@Tobi638]

@@kihro There’s no such thing as a “worst” Diablo game. All three of them are equally good for equally valid reasons. Don’t be blinded by your nostalgia

[@BlackMonkey133]

As a core diablo 2 player that has played diablo 3 over 100 hrs what i can say diablo 3 isn't a bad game its just not a good diablo game it's moved to more simple play style, the grind is so much more repetitive go do bounties and rifts with a little end game content and for classes are based around items were diablo 2 had plenty more areas to magic find depending on play style and champ sure leveling and end game 8 man hell baal runes are boring with 2 or 3 builds really viable but just playing the game and having fun opens you up to the variety of champs and classes the game has to offer

[@IveBeenWithBruma]

What made diablo 2 so amazing were the unique monster names. All the innuendos.

[@wanna877]

I kind of see the build making in Diablo 3 and Diablo 2, like D&D 5e and 3.5/pathfinder. One gives you a character that can be goofy if you try hard enough, the other allows you to obsese over abilities and synergies. None is wrong, just for different people.

[@gabepatton9851]

I feel like you tried to play Diablo 2 as Diablo, and that lead you to really undervalue the amount of customization available in skillsets. If you wanted to really have fun while also being able to beat all the bosses, you'd vary where you put your points and explore the different characters within the same playthrough. And sure, sometimes this meant you'd need to grind for items for a bit to get through a tough spot, but the switching between skills in the middle of fights was an important aspect of my playthroughs that seriously and positively impacted the mood. Sure, people figured out that certain builds were best, but if you want to have fun that's just something any self respecting gamer avoids anyway. Diablo 2 provides tons of options for play and for fun and you and all minmaxers who played online just to kill eachother genuinely played it wrong. Just my angry opinion of someone who never actually played Diablo, but if Diablo 2 was the first game of its type you play, I think it lends itself more to that playstyle of trying to learn what each class can do, In total, and if you choose to cut yourself off so thoroughly from that option, it's your own fault you had less fun or had to revamp your entire build because you put all your skill points into 3/40 options

[@tylernunes8248]

I really hate the argument of "In Diablo 3 you can make your own viable builds, there is more experimentation and you are not required to make 1 or 2 builds for your character to be viable" Have you ever been to icy veins? Have you ever gone to torment 16? Looking up a build and finding out what items and skills stack and scale the best with each other is the only way to get to the highest level of Torment and Greater Rifts in Diablo 3.

[@Belbecat]

As someone who has dumped 20 years in to the whole franchise and has re-played all 3 games within the past year - I'm biased but they all still hold up well imo. D1 as you said has the atmosphere and difficulty, D2 has the most fun in testing your abilities to build well and play perfectly and D3 allows you to experiment in whatever bulids and to push the limit to how high in difficulty you can go. D2 is still absolutely the best though imo, has the best of all worlds. Since others in comments talk about PoE... I just couldn't get in to it. The skill system is interesting but feel rather gimmicky and the polish in the way the characters move just really puts me off. Somehow the Torch Light series also never grabbed me... oh well.

[@pragmat1k]

Diablo II is the only one I want and need. Nostalgia grips me tight.

[@FengLengshun]

Huh, it's interesting seeing the comments here and on reddit I'm not familiar with Diablo but it seems based on the comments, upvotes, and the video's own comments and like-to-dislike, it's that preferences and sensibilities have shifted as time passed. A lot of the older fans, as he predicted, disagrees with him, but all this likes and upvotes looks to me that the silent majority seems to agree with him or at least don't dislike it enough to downvote/dislike it. I suppose it's a good retrospective from someone with a younger, more Modern Gaming ™ sensibilities that the OG fans would disagree but people more used to the current state of gaming and Diablo wouldn't really disagree that much?

[@jeffreybarker357]

Feng Lengshun I gave this video a thumbs up despite my disagreement with his assessment of D3. I guess I’m one of those who’s blinded by nostalgia or whatever but, as most others on here have said, I enjoyed (definitely not at the time!) that were consequences for my experimentation in D2 that don’t exist in D3. Plus all the flashes and lights. He was absolutely right about the shameless attempt to lock players into playing with D3. Either way, I don’t think giving it a thumbs down because his opinion is different is fair. I agree with some and disagree with other points he made but I thought he supported his argument fairly well. I say all that to say this; I’m sure there are others who also think D2 is better but still gave him a thumbs up.

[@TimelapsedArk]

The video is upvoted because w we love Diablo content.

[@WPFreeinternet]

It seemed like you were playing Diablo 1 a bit too much like Diablo 2 and 3. It has a different focus and because of it I don't think people give Diablo 1 a fair shake. You normally don't throw yourself in a room and smash yourself into a mass of enemies, you have to creep around and pull them little by little. While you did mention using the environment like utilizing doors to manage swathes of enemies, there is also hugging corners to get some pot shots while enemies trickled to you as well. You also find yourself zig zagging a ton in later levels of Diablo 1 to evade as many ranged attacks as you can, especially with the warrior. Let us not forget about the Acid Spitters which isn't smart to tank in general. Though you are right, Diablo 2 has a much bigger focus on loot compared to Diablo 1. You are often scrambling to that magic item in Diablo 1 because it can make a significant impact on your play through. Juggling items from floor to floor is pretty much a necessity if you want to consistently beat the game each play through because you often find yourself lacking great comprehensive resist gear. Diablo 1 isn't the hyper fast mass mob slaughter looter that the genre has become, it is a different breed. While Diablo 1 isn't perfect I find it the most engaging of these action RPGs that you run around, click, and loot.

[@brianoconnor5972]

You didn't talk about the most important part of any ARPG, the loot. The reason people like D2 is because the loot is epic. Finding your first shako or high rune after playing for months is way better than grinding rifts to find ancient items with the right affixes

[@lukefisher7600]

The tempo of this video scaled so much as it went on. I went back to the first 5 minutes just to compare. At first, it was informative and fairly calm. By the end I felt like I was going to have a heart attack.

[@Pantailamon]

Ok thank you. I've been trying to see if anyone else was stressed out by this, I really wanted to finish the video and have a response but I can't

[@emalinedickinson7492]

Wait, did we forget about Doomguy? He's not a chosen one, at least not on the originals. He's just a space marine. And he "mows down" endless hordes of demons on a quest to destroy ALL of hell, not just a singular demon.

[@scroom1202]

Fam, when people say they don't like the atmosphere of D3 they are talking about the Warcraft art style. I genuinely believe you know that. Also, you are playing as a Necro in the D2 parts..... Where is your army?

[@trashtronics1700]

Made it feel more of a blizzard title tbh just a bunch of children complaining it isn't D2 and that really the only complaint anyone had

[@scroom1202]

@@trashtronics1700 Real money auction house, rampant hacking, simplified character progression, ect. There were plenty of other complaints about the core program.

[@gregcrosby4530]

The item progression in d2 is amazing.. how you can only find treasure class items in certain treasure zones.. meaning some items can only be found in A5 hell.. The rarity of finding end game elite gear / High runes is unmatched.. the excitement feels like you won money in a casino.. plus the ability to trade these items/runes away to other people, for items you need but have had no luck finding.. its so much better than D3 where it showers you with loot...where you will literally find 5 versions of the same item in the same rift.. and trash them all, because you are hoping for a primal version..

[@cliftonsargent1572]

I loved that music in the town, running in those Dungeons and getting the ONE amazing piece of equipment that you have been grinding for, almost dying and barley getting out alive!!! Then you hear that guitar play and know your safe and can breathe. Thank you for covering this game

[@ultraatari9298]

Sorcerer: Don't focus on one element. I know it's tempting cause of DPS and less time, but you'll need two types to improve odds of resistance. I wouldn't go three as than you'll only have Cantrips. Fighter: Pray for RNG to be merciful and deck out your guy. Get used to talking to merchants more than combat selling and basically doing fantasy accounting for tank build. Rogue: Get good unironically. Learn the map, exploit the AI, stock up on flasks, read walk-through, this shit is hard mode but once you're used to it you'll wonder why you ever played anything else

[@jeffreybarker357]

Ultra Atari All accurate AF. Well done.

[@satans_scrilla4844]

I teared up laughing as a kid when my uncle said, "come look at my first crappy necro build." All points into teeth.

[@chrisjavan5864]

This guy is misunderstanding key complaints about DIablo 3. For instance, people are actually more upset with having only 4 available spells/abilities at a time, and also how the amount of builds you could create that were viable. In D3, there's clear spells and abilities that are pathetic or not useful, which reduces the amount of viable builds you can make, which reduces the amount of replay value. As for the atmosphere, it's more about the shades of color used, not the color itself. No one has a problem with dark green but no one wants neon green in Diablo (aside from toxic pools or venom), and the music in D2 was way more eerie/scary/authentic.

[@emalinedickinson7492]

Just wanted to say I agree with you. Atmosphere isn't just map layout. The music from D2 was phenomenal, the colors were muted and stark, the emotional environment was not simply "panic". In my own opinion. I still agree with some of the assessments.

[@therealDonMac]

For D2, I only had a dial up connection, and didn't play it online until 2004-2005. Single player 1.09 was a completely different game. There was no such thing as a respec, and single player means 100% self found. Sigon's armor, belt and boots were godly into hell difficulty for me. Aldur's rhythm was the best weapon I could find into act5 Hell. I actually found a Vamp Gaze and was blown away by it's OPness. The difficulty of playing with that gear made online play a cakewalk once I got a decent interwebs connection.

[@AceofSpadesss]

I've beaten D1 on PSP back in the days, now I am playing D2 and D3 simultaneously since I got interested in D2 after completing D3 campaign. Diablo 2 is much better in terms of gameplay in my opinion, it offers much more content and challenge than D3 does, the only problem I have is not having much space in stash which I can always fix by downloading a mod. D3 is a grindfest with too many legendary gear drops, you can probably get a legendary if you fart as well, it's not rewarding or fun and everything dies in 1 hit even on Torment XVI which is the hardest difficulty in the game, while end content is just a random dungeon running and random season objectives.

[@Scyzzles]

I can say from experience that people loved playing just vanilla Diablo 2 in single player as well, internet access wasn't as widespread as you might think when the game released. Just a minute into the Blood Moor it's clear what makes Diablo 2 so compelling. You swing at a zombie, the meaty sounds and animations are satisfying, it drops some loot that you manually pick up and identify which might be a massive upgrade to your character, and you level up, opening up the skill tree to see all these possibilities to try out for making your own customized character. You don't know what the best choices are, but that chance to fail just adds that much more importance to your decisions. You portal back to town, fill up your potion belt and clear out your inventory and get ready to delve deeper. You're immersed in the weight and importance of every kill and item and the game has you hooked into this loop. You compare it to mobile games, but guess fucking what, you aren't paying for lootboxes in the game to fill some CEO's wallet, you're getting it by playing a fun game with satisfying combat and a great world and atmosphere. There's nothing predatory about making your game high quality and enjoyable, like it's tricking you into playing more for some nefarious purpose. It is well-made itemization with interesting uniques and affixes and a great loot and skill progression system with visceral immersive atmosphere that makes every enemy you kill continue to feel meaningful throughout the game. As for why people don't feel the same way about Diablo 3, it's lacking in a lot of those things which captivated people to Diablo 2. The importance of each kill, each item drop, and each skill point, all serving to grow and shape your character in a unique way making that progression feel like it added up to something special.

[@YadonTheCat]

Yeah those arguments you mentioned were bad, but just cause people use bad reasoning for why they dislike a game doesn't mean their dislike isn't valid

[@NekoGamiSamaa]

I understand your point on functioning builds on each game, but 90% of the time I played Diablo 2, I didn't use a build I looked up, rather, I'd explore the possibilities. This was one of the main reasons I disliked 3, but I think you make an excellent argument and critique.

[@David_Alvarez77]

This is one of the most bizarre takes on Diablo that I have seen. I agree with almost nothing in it. I guess that if you are a casual player you will like a casual game like Diablo 3 and not appreciate the older games like 1 and 2. It is weird to hear people complain about having to plan out your character build. But if you don't like thinking and planning while playing, then I can see why Diablo 3 would be your cup of tea. I think Diablo 2 is more of an rpg than 3, and if you do not enjoy rpg's, then the thought that planning is required to do well in an rpg will not appeal to you. You will want a more action based, easy access game that penalizes you for nothing and lets you have access to everything with no trade offs what so ever. The very definition of a casual experience, and there is nothing wrong per se with that sort of game, unless it is the devolution of a more intricate experience. The fact that the fans of Diablo 1 and 2 were let down by Blizzard's failure to make a sequel that was true to the second game or a return to the hard core experience of the first should not be surprising. I was never an on-line player in Diablo 1 or 2, though I enjoyed some two player co-op at times. I have never found a game that had the feeling fear that the first Diablo did, and I really enjoyed the character building of the second--and I never had to "look up a build online?" I have played through Diablo 3 main story and Reaper of Souls twice with two different characters. And I will never do so again. It was one of the more disappointing game experiences I have ever seen. It is a let down and I do not blame any player of Diablo 1 or 2 who cannot stand it.

[@fictionarch]

I cannot understand why anyone would play through a game they don't like beginning to end. Let alone doing it more then once. Im not gonna argue with anything you said it's just I have seen other people say this about games they don't like and I don't understand why they do it.

[@InnuendoXP]

"Diablo 1's DLC" I'm sorry, the what?

[@jeffreybarker357]

Yeah, no. Been at this series since the beginning and had no idea. I’m clearly not a core fan like I thought. Could’ve lived the rest of my life without knowing that and been fine.

[@milospanic12]

They outsourced it to Sierra games at the time, so it's semi-official, I've personally always considered it more of a mod than a full-blown expansion pack, and always preferred the vanilla D1 version.

[@InnuendoXP]

oh I meant more- "back in my day we called that an Expansion" plus there was no way in hell anyone was downloading that at the time!

[@milospanic12]

@@InnuendoXP Yeah I know what u meant, but still I wanted to clear things out haha

[@kennyrgb2700]

Hellfire expansion, its on GOG

[@0tterhead]

*Rakanishu intensifies*

[@Tyiriel]

D2 atmosphere is definitely not the same as d1 due to the differences you mentioned It keeps a few elements that are important though, and I think these are where the argument pops up from The argument stems from "what you see first", and is perfectly in line to become panic if you're unprepared. In Diablo 2, the first thing you see that screams "enemy" is usually 1-3 spells or arrows or some skeleton rattling/footsteps sounds. You don't really know what you're facing until you're in it, just like Diablo 1 with the difference of it being slightly more telegraphed and the speed/amount inducing panic. In Diablo 3 you can see the edge of the screen at all times, as well as see through basically any obstacles. Anything tough in that game can be seen by glowing spell effects even before entering combat. If D2 lost the gothic style art and unsettli-ness that D1 had, then D3 lost: Any sense of getting properly ganked up from D2, still didn't regain any art from D1 but rather made everything look "proper" and "as you'd expect a super cool dungeon to look like" which.. defeats the point. A comparison would be that the slightly deeper cave a mile from your house under that big rock by the river could represent D1 (You wouldn't really want to stay the night there, would you?) while the Massive CGI cave on planet Azoerrl where George clooney has a final showdown with some purple dude can represent D3 (It's pretty much what you'd expect around every corner).

[@terrenceswiff]

1) It's fine to NOT want things to "just function". Choice, even if it's an illusion, goes a long way. 2) Premise matters. Even if your character was incredible in the first 2 games, that you KNOW they started from nothing feels like you've made something of yourself. It wasn't predestined, you just won. That goes a long way. Dismissing that seems absurd, especially given you mentioned Guts, who is ordinary for a long time, at least insofar as he is human, making his triumphs feel more incredible

[@B0K0691]

No

[@DrLegitimate]

If your 'character works always', then you are signing up to constrain not just the lower limit of character development and customization, but the upper limit as well. There is a great deal of nuance in Diablo II that I feel you did not represent, and your analysis of D3's systems indicates that you probably just don't know what that nuance is. Please don't take that as a 'burn' or insult because I don't think it's anyone's fault for not engaging with the more esoteric pieces of D2's systems since 'good' builds were frequently unintuitive and you aren't wrong in saying that most people just look something up. D3's systems are so constrained that there is no room for creativity and there is no room for expression of style as a player. You aren't making nuanced choices and the result is the game is forgettable and hollow - it's junk food. It's eschewing complexity, depth and exploration in it's systems, sacrificing them all at the altar of accessibility because Diablo 3 is not a product borne from a vision and crafted carefully with creativity at the forefront. Instead, it's a calculated product, designed to sell to absolutely everyone it could. To that end, it succeeded. The irony though is that despite its massive sales, it's a forgettable experience that I doubt will stand the test of time as well as Diablo 2. I think you hit on this pretty well in the last 10 minutes of the video. Path of Exile is already poised to overtake Diablo as the ARPG franchise to beat going forward. PoE not only embraced depth, complexity and nuance in it's systems, it went all-in on them. The end result is a game that despite being released around the same time as D3, has a growing audience compared to D3's dwindling relevance in the ARPG space. From all that nuance comes an adventure that's adjacent to the game. That adventure is learning, and mistakes, and 'ah ha' moments and the journey from Novice to Expert in a way that means something substantial that you can then apply to the game. That's the core of what makes D2 so much more special. That's the fuel that keeps PoE relevant and that's what's missing from D3. D2 definitely has aged poorly and compared to it's contemporary in PoE, it's quite bad through modern eyes, but the experiences it provided are what's so substantial and you can't have those experiences unless you demand something out of the player. For all its flaws, Diablo 2 gives the player something back when they discover an interesting synergy, or figure out a how to apply a weird runeword, or really dig into understanding how to build a merc. Therein lies the critical difference: Diablo 3 asks nothing of the player, and has nothing to give in return.

[@ingeniousclown]

Please continue to be a nerd. This comment was a great read.

[@brunocar02]

i was with you till you got to sucking off POE, that game is even less accessible than D2, its a spreadsheet simulator and has no customization until the endgame

[@lobstrosity7163]

You've got some legit points but I'd argue Diablo II has aged better than Path of Exile.

[@DrLegitimate]

@@brunocar02 PoE is a hugely inaccessible game. It also has major problems in regards to 'when the game gets fun'. These are legitimate criticisms about what it means to be a new player and the challenges in learning what is a wildly esoteric and complex game. But the point I want to make with PoE is not that it's a perfect game, but that the appeal and longevity of the game is a benefit it reaps from the complexity and depth of it's systems. PoE, for all it's faults in the first 20 hours, PoE is a game that gives you a lot back as a player as you begin to understand those systems. The cliff you need to climb to get to a point of reasonable autonomy is way too steep, and yeah, the leveling process is dumb and I'd 100% skip straight to maps if I could. That said, it's strengths are in spite of its problems in the first 20 hours, not because of them.

[@brunocar02]

@@DrLegitimate you seem to forget that those 20 hours (if not more) are the same content you have to repeat once but with a shittier story, which you have to do with every character you make, every league AND to even play the endgame content in a smooth manner you need to pay for stash tabs. the problem with POE isnt that you cant skip to the maps, because thats literally what D3 did with adventure mode to let you not play ITS shitty first 20 hours, the problem is that both these games are fundamentally flawed and both D4 and POE2 are aiming to fix that, but meanwhile, you have other games released around the same time like torchlight 2 or, hell, even borderlands 2 that did all of those things way better, but the D3 fanboys dont want to admit that they like their game because of its production values and polish rather than because the game is good and POE fans wont admit that they like their game BECAUSE its esoteric as hell and in spite of its crappy combat and early progression, instead of the other way around.

[@Forsparda]

diablo 2 "made you an unstoppable god" says the man who admits he couldnt beat the higher difficulties

[@auronjuce7455]

Right he said 3 sucks then said we're nostalgia blind for saying 3 sucks like waht

[@MrKoutsuko]

the man just wants to turn off his brain and white knight D3. Some people like to tinker builds and find wierd interactions, being amazed with possibilities, e some just want to play a mobile idle clicker that autoplays itself, people are still active playing d2 for 20 years and will keep playing for more 20.

[@tylr3669]

He will never have the fun of running a pure thorns paladin. "F U BAAL! Punch me you turd!"

[@MrKoutsuko]

@@tylr3669 doind a pacifist paladin runis fun AF, also, the Iron Maiden golem sacrifice necro doing with bosses being underleveled, Cheesy amnd hilarious!

[@pride2184]

"unstoppable god yet fails at higher difficulties" aka he is a noob who doesnt understand the games and didn't play them as a kid who only discovered the series at diablo 3 and is shilling for his first diablo without actual putting time and effort into the originals.

[@RolieKloeOlie]

I challenge you to replaying Diablo 2 LoD, Single player with Ladder only runewords turned on and beat Hell Baal. The moment you find that Um to be able to get that much needed upgrade to move ever so slightly forward in progressing to the next area worthy of farming. The fact that item progression continues through out the entire game (not just get a big stat stick and race to max level in Diablo 3 and get your whole set in a day just to farm for ancient items of the same set). I'm talking about nearly every item that drops in Diablo 2 can be worth using. White items for socketing or imbuing. Blue items having a chance to roll godly stats. Rare crafted items being best in slot for the purpose of each individual stat and resistance. Unique items having a purpose to be upgraded from exceptional to elite quality because the defense stat was useful. Runewords that completely changed your builds and allowed classes to play with other classes' skills. Drop tables for each area that all have their own hidden levels making the monsters have their own levels which made certain prefixes and affixes. Diablo 2 had many little issues with online play, don't get me wrong. Bots, item farmers, item shops on websites to buy items, but I still keep coming back for the feeling that I can progress within many different areas and difficulties of the game. Itemization and gear progression is what bothers me about Diablo 3 (I still played it for 4000+ hours since vanilla release). I'm certain I have many times that in Diablo 2 (even on 56k modem connections that I couldn't use for many hours of the day due to telemarketers disconnecting me) but the game doesn't log hours so I couldn't prove it.

[@Elrond_Hubbard1]

Hate to sound like an old prick, but back in the day when Diablo and Diablo 2 was released, there was a particular evil and sinister ambiance that permeated the game. It was still early enough where parents were bitching about satanic images and themes. That, and the fact the developers just seemed to get all the mechanics right made the first two legendary. Now I hear all the woke developers are removing "offensive" sexual images of the main villain from Diablo 4. Again, back in the day they didn't give a crap about offending anyone.

[@hankhill242productions6]

Gotta get that Chinese money somehow.

[@stevenbell1888]

So heres the thing about the story in diablo 1 : Most of it was in the manual that came with the game. Really filled in the gaps even well into diablo 2 where you finally got to meet the other "Prime evils" etc

[@cw33980]

"vanilla diablo 3" proceeds to show exclusively crusader gameplay

[@MelFinch]

my guy really put PLIN PLIN PLON at the beginning of Diablo 2 retrospective. king

[@claytonkickflip7595]

I think Diablo 3 was really good for people who never played the first two

[@ThePhantomTommy]

Diablo 3 was the first one I played (on console, sorry!). I remember thinking it was ridiculous that I could die, respawn in place and continue hacking away at enemies. There was one point during a fight in that desert area where the screen was just so full of colorful particle effects that I couldn't even tell where my character was -- my eyes glazed over and I was just pressing skill buttons randomly. I died a couple times, respawned in place and eventually killed everything. And then I just stopped playing and never went back to it. I KNOW it must get better than that, but it was so easy, so mind-numbingly boring that I just lost all interest in continuing.

[@silviangc8486]

I think Diablo II's atmosphere is incredible! *shrug*

[@hellsgameroom3560]

i think you assume Hell means dark fire and brimstone but that also includes green sick with bug like entities, desert ruins akin to sumarian myths which have alot of demons and snowy enviroments are actually what the 9th circle is described as in the book Dante's inferno

[@markus-hermannkoch1740]

D2? The synergy concept of being good at basic early spells helping you with powerful late game spells was pretty rad. They should have given that more weight.

[@112523]

thanks, im gonna replay diablo 1 and 2 now

[@AstralArchon]

I miss D2 skill trees because it felt like I was making my own character. When I levelled up, I could add a point into the build however I wanted, which made levelling fun and rewarding. Distribution of attribute points was more important in the early game because of gear requirements. And yeah, it did get more straightforward in the late game, but I still thought it was fun watching my damage or chance to hit go up with every click. In D3, all attributes and skills were automatic, which made me feel like I had less control over my character. If I'm trying to play a certain build and I level up, instead of getting stronger in the skills I want to specialize in, I'll more often than not be forced to get an upgrade for a skill I don't care about and will never use. Even if I use it, I have to give up something else. Because of this, levelling felt less important, and I rarely got excited when it happened. I never even really looked at how much more EXP I needed, and I barely paid attention to my level. In D2, levelling never stopped feeling good. Looking down the skill tree, seeing Fire Golem unlocks at level 30 and that it would receive synergistic bonuses based on the skills I choose with each level up made me put more work into specializing into it, and it made it so when I did get to level 30 and got the Fire Golem so much more rewarding.

[@HorkSupreme]

Yeah, in D3 often I leveled and didn't even care to check what had changed. It removed the character crafting elements to its detriment.

[@wildwest1832]

diablo 3 was a smash hit on people being excited and preordering it because they loved diablo so much, and bought the game on expectations, but were not left wide eyed and satisfied after. I know because I was one of those people that shortly quit, but sadly already preordered it because I loved diablo that much. Diablo is now dead, but we have diablo 1 and 2

[@canontheory]

Diablo isn’t dead, we got D2 resurrected which I guess is just D2 although it’s finally on console which it feels like playing a new game even though it’s the same game but with really good graphics and QoL changes

[@milospanic12]

Diablo 1 was dark, mysterious, dangerous. The player wasn't bombarded with a seemingly complicated plot or blotted lore. There was only a sole human who, against all odds, had to defeat Diablo, and you didn't even know you had to do that until the very end of the game. The story was simple, but it went perfectly well with the dark, gothic and foreboding atmosphere, not to mention the sound effect and the eerie music. It was a horror masterpiece and the birth of a genre. I will never forget seeing the game for the first time. Diablo 2 just expanded upon the amazing foundation and added the element of an open world. I will not waste any time talking about the gameplay because it's just the crown of the entire genre. The story continued where D1 left off and it was made even more clear how dangerous the evil is and how big of a struggle it is to actually stand a chance against these hordes of demons. You were but a human again, a number, nothing special about you, just a foot soldier in this hellish invasion, and that is how you were able to relate to your character and feel the weight of his quest. Again, the atmosphere, the music, the story, everything was perfectly mixed to create this beautiful masterpiece and establish it as one of the biggest franchises in gaming history. Then came Diablo 3. That game tried to reinvent the wheel and failed miserably in almost every aspect. Now you are a demi-god superhuman who just destroys everything it sees. The story turned away from the human perspective and tried to focus more on this epic, grandiose conflict of heaven and hell, and failed at that. There was no more a sense of danger, mystery, exploration, adventure. You just went from room to room and blew things up. The plot was boring, and they tried to fill the hole with some plastic lore no one ever cared about. It's like they didn't even try. There was no day/night cycle, randomly generated levels were stripped to a minimum. Even the world was made so linear. It could have been a great mobile game, but as 3rd part of the installment, it was an abomination.

[@SleepDeprivationVids]

I fucking love your videos. I loved Diablo 2 but just couldn't get into Diablo 3. I was looking forward to Diablo 3 for so long and then just couldn't manage to enjoy it. There was something about it that I just couldn't put my finger on.

[@markenjhon1894]

Sleep Deprivation Probebly the brighter visuals and lack of choice. Which is fine just not in a diablo game

[@nicolasriveros943]

Nice to see a fellow Necromancer main in D2

[@TheMetalGearKid]

Just started my first D2 run as a Necromancer myself. Unleash the skelebros!!

[@AlmaBuru]

For me D2 was always high risk high reward gameplay. Game never handhold you. Enemies mostly scale in damage rather than HP, you can kill or die in a matter of seconds. D3 is exact opposite. Monsters primarily scale in HP. Inferno runs were mindbogingly boring, where you look at 3M mob hp and just hold LMP and drink coffee and NOTHING. HAPPENS. FOR. HOURS. It's a peak MMO design, something inherently anthithesic to the core of the game.

[@allensmith9879]

My friend you have hit the nail on the head here. 👏

[@BingBangPoe]

Finally someone who agrees that Diablo II is not the second coming of Jesus. The game was and still is *_helluva fun,_* but lacks the atmosphere the original game had so strongly. The first Diablo game still is my favorite in the series because it feels dark, it feels threatening, even if you played it multiple times and know all the enemy patterns, it still feels you with dread of not knowing what awaits you in every corner. Diablo IV seems to have a lot a potential, but even so I don't think it'll be able to capture the essence of the original game, and never will. Diablo I is a relic of its time. I was really happy when they had plans for Diablo IV to be kinda like Dark Souls early in development. Because if there is a game that captures that sense of dread that Diablo I does, it is the Dark Souls series.

[@Pantailamon]

I'm glad somebody gets it. Everyone talks about D2 atmosphere being lost, but D2 atmosphere is only that good because it captured *some* of the original game's. The sheer dread every time I found another staircase down...

[@androsh9039]

Excellent video! I agree with practically all points, the pros and cons of each game.

[@FazerGS]

Thanks to this video, I grabbed Diablo 1 on GOG and I'm loving it! Thanks KBash! Here's to hoping the Diablo 2 Remastered rumors are true!

[@R4nD0m57]

Tried replaying diablo3 from vanilla and man you are so right about the light show, it had zero lasting effect

[@tomhill3248]

I never encountered the skeleton king. Only ever the butcher. I thought it was impossible to kill him with ranged attacks on account of hitting him with fireball many times and him not dying.

[@derpderk608]

Im Not a diablo fan but coming from the perspective of a monster hunter player the point made about build diversity that was said during the diablo 3 section stroke a nerve in me, taking out the option for build diversity takes out so much time investment and playstyle variety from an rpg experience, it would suck if the next monster hunter game had the same thing happen to it as did diablo 3.

[@T1Slam]

*Isn't that weird that modern gamer thinks that games should be compleatable without mastering them* ? I'm talking about that comment about how you have to become an expert in Diablo 2 in order to defeat Diablo or else you would choke. If you actually think about it, that critizism undermines the core idea of what a game is - you should become an expert in order to defeat the final boss, that is what games are all about. Imagine not needing to become good in order to beat Dark Souls - the game would have to do some pretty weird stuff in order to achieve that. And that is the point about Diablo - it's not about mastering how to press buttons, it's about mastering THE GAME in its entirity - understanding what it demands from player and finding a way to achieve it within the complete context of that game, which includes learning about builds and 'meta'. If all builds would work then none of the customization would matter - *what would be even point of playing if the victory is guaranteed* ? This thing is also tied to another weird argument about story shift from turning hero from being a nobody into The Grand Saviour Of All: the point is that there IS no dissonance if main character is SUPPOSED to be human. You say that you mow down hordes of monsters while being nobody and it is better to "explain" it, but what you miss is that the game already actively sets main character as someone who isn't *supposed* to be this powerful in an indirect way: As YOU already mentioned, if you just play the game not trying to master it you WILL start becoming weaker comparatevy to newer monsters to the point where you stop being able to mow anyone down. And this is achievable by allowing players to lock themselves into bad builds and make wrong decisions in general - to show that they are still nobodies, if not proven otherwise with ACTIONS. Because of that, the builds that actually get to the point of being powerful become real achievements for players by demanding to be found instead of being lead to. Saying that, i want to emphasize on one thing: *I'm not really bashing the video* as just neutrally commenting on the matter. I think it is a very good thing that author decided to make a critical retrospective and attempt to answer many different and difficult questions. I liked watching it despite some obviously wrong opinions as there where also some interesting introspections. And i liked reading the comments correcting the author so i hope he won't be discouraged by fair critizism of him, no matter how harsh it could sound.

[@Freedan14go]

"Diablo II is doing the same thing most abusive phone games do now, just without the gacha mechanics" Frankly, I find this to be something kinda silly as a statement. Abusive phone games are abusive BECAUSE of the gacha mechanics, not in spite of them

[@Awsomemobs2000Theminecraftdude]

There are games that have a pretty fair gacha system along with other more consumer friendly features. Ex: Honkai Impact 3rd. So no having a gacha doesn't inherently mean an abusive mobile game.

[@CGoody564]

@@Awsomemobs2000Theminecraftdude no one said they are inherently bad; only that they are generally implemented in an abusive manner. However, to say that the mechanic is generally not abusive because a few games have implemented a fair system is quite disingenuous. Games like that are the exception currently, and not the rule. And to be fair, I would consider the auction house equally as abusive as non consumer friendly gacha mechanics, if only in a slightly different manner.

[@Awsomemobs2000Theminecraftdude]

@@CGoody564 I had remembered a point that I forgot to add to my original reply. Its this: there are several other aspects to mobile games that can make them worse besides gacha mechanics. This could be excessive time gating, a huge paywall to get into the game, ads, immense grinding for a certain material or item you're only going to use for 1 weapons or character in the entire game, progression slowing by connecting unrealated systems to one another (Ex. The inability to level your characters past your account level) and the list goes on. Whether or not gacha systems themselves are generally abusive, there are many other aspects that can go wrong with a gacha based mobile game.

[@Awsomemobs2000Theminecraftdude]

@@CGoody564 theres the structure of the gacha itself along with what the statistics are in regards to garenteed rewards, "rate ups", rarity etc that will affect whether or not the game is predatory or abusive. The example of honkai impact I gave earlier recently changed the way their gacha works to have you get a garenteed high rarity character or weapon (theres a seperate gacha for each) that you don't own yet every 20 or so pulls which is good for those who don't have the best luck. Or what about the currency thats used to pull the gacha and how easy it is to gain it. Some games make it a grueling task to get enough to pull it once let alone 10 or more. Theres some games that constantly advertise their microtransactions and will give you a "limited time deal", trying to convince you to drop money on it. I can say for certain I've never dropped a single penny on any mobile game I've played, and so if I run into a pay wall I just move on and try to find something better.

[@mysticmallachi777]

I remember my one and only attempt at beating Diablo 2. Druid, with a build designed around pets, because I like having minions. It worked wonderfully for the entire game, very few issues overall. I felt godlike. And then I met Diablo, and with one mighty Fire Nova, he wiped out my "army" and killed me shortly after, over and over, no matter how many times I tried. I never played again.

[@AdamMoonyLes]

git gud lol

[@Stavroization]

Druid summons are meant for support. Not for clearing. You have to go elemental or shapeshifting to get through the game

[@mysticmallachi777]

To the several people criticizing my intelligence/ability, all I can say is that I played the game blind. And if it was such a terrible build, it shouldn't have worked LITERALLY THE ENTIRE GAME up until Diablo. And I also played Diablo 2 AFTER playing WoW. Is it so hard to believe I thought all 3 skill trees were viable, like in that game?

[@Stavroization]

@@mysticmallachi777 yeah, it's really easy to completely break a character in D2 if you don't know what you're doing. For the first like 15 years or so in the game you couldn't even respec.

[@BradsGaming]

The diablo series is great overall. I love every entry for different reasons. The thing about Diablo 3 for me (which I haven't played it in ages myself either) was I just wasn't drawn back to play it after I poured a ton of time into it like the previous games. Which honestly there is nothing wrong with because we buy and play short experience games all the time. Honestly just like everyone else it probably is just nostalgia more than anything. I am more likely to pop on diablo 1 or 2 than any other game just because that is what I poured my time into as a kid.