Diagnosing an Atari Tempest Arcade Machine With An Oscilloscope - Vector Monitor Trickery

[@alanletterman]

I used an oscilloscope to repair my Asteroids machine. Found the broken component .vs. replacing the monitor. Vector graphics are cool! The old analog oscilloscopes work much better as monitor replacements than a digital scope.

[@johnDingoFoxVelocity]

Power supply is the same as crystal castles if I remember correctly. It was a popular board

[@bradwagner7054]

Thanks for showing some practical oscope troubleshooting. so neat to know the vector games output can show up there to rule out the monitor. That's an awesome tip.

[@AmazingArnoldVoice]

Just found one of these at the fleas market and picked it up for 300. This is a great video

[@badone65]

Yes to a Part 2. Tempest is in my top 5 of all time favs! :)

[@yesitreallyisme]

Love the ghostly shape of Joey behind you in the monitoes reflection.

[@williamsudbrink4187]

I love Tempest. It's one of those games where you really need the cabinet to play it right. I was at Spinners in Fredrick Maryland on Saturday but, unfortunately, they didn't have theirs out. They must be working on it.

[@saskia6750]

Gotta love the color vector games,playing them on site in the wild was always a great immersive experience...Not often out of action either ! Thank you guys for filming x

[@garry5280]

Check the power supplies to the analogue section, the +15 and -15v, it maybe one of them is collapsing under load. The other thing you might have a stuck bit on the input to one of the DACs

[@pankajshah670]

One of the best shop to take your broken game to be fixed and get a tutorial. 👍🏼

[@swp466]

6:52 -- the reason the game is "drawing crap all over the place that it shouldn't be drawing" is that in addition to the X&Y axis signals, the game board also provides a Z axis signal to the monitor which is the blanking, or beam intensity. Some older analog scopes had a Z axis input, and without that axis, you will see all the "in-between" vectors. The Z axis allows control of the trace brightness, so the game will turn off the beam during this shift between assets on the screen. Without that ability, you will see all of those vectors that you shouldn't.

[@Viking74256]

One of my favorites!! Played this endlessly , loved it! Another great repair from the Joe’s Classic!

[@MikesArcadeMonitorRepair]

Great effort so far. I have a 6100 that was necked so I just used a VectorVGA and a VGA/CGA converter to use a K4900. Looks really great for what it is and absolutely zero input lag. Just saying that's an option to keep these alive using a CRT.

[@david-sv3kg]

Thanks for sharing the videos. I like guessing the problems and seeing how close I was to what you actually found. Plus, I have a lot of good memories from the places those cabinets were installed too. Nice to see them still going.

[@diddrumdontdrum]

Another classic machine and another interesting video. Looking forward to part 2 Ron 😀

[@antonnym214]

I was 21 when this came out and I was the KING. I played all afternoon for like a buck. Great seeing one get the TLC it deserves. Thank you!

[@naytch2003]

I thought Bob Wills was the King..or is it Elvis 😁

[@lothianmcadam1]

David Plummer (has his own channel) claims the high(est) score--he owns the game, which definitely helps. I probably have the 'second' highest score--I own the game, which definitely helps.

[@senilyDeluxe]

I just fixed a Tempest using nothing but an oscilloscope. So you can't really say I fixed it. But before the picture was pretty much garbled (the game was running fine though). Turned out the Y DAC had an internal resistor for the 2nd most significant bit bad (or something), replacing the DAC brought the picture back, but the DAC08 didn't work and... it wasn't the DAC, it was the reference capacitor that was leaky. The two BIP pots control the crookedness of the picture. On the sound test screen you have to adjust them so the lines meet. Yours was faaaaar faaaaar off.

[@northhankspin]

love the work you do. what we have heeerrre is a great channel!

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you for watching North-Hankspin! See you on the next one....

[@paulclarke7571]

tempest is an awesome game. Played it back in my arcade days in the 80s. I love the sounds this game put out!

[@randynovick7972]

This game was my jam, back in the day.

[@samphillips4925]

It's amazing that these CRTs are still going after so long

[@andymouse]

Love these machines to bits and it's in good hands, start from the outputs and work back sounds like a great plan so see ya in part 2 !.....cheers.

[@KellyMurphy]

On the Scope, the Z input on the back is brightness, you might be able to use it to blank lines where the gun is moving but shouldnt be drawing.

[@lothianmcadam1]

Looking for a Tempest? 'Home Game Arcade' in Raleigh has one collecting dust up on the top shelf in their warehouse!

[@adame2068]

I’ve got a vector Star Wars upright where the monitor went out. This gives me some ideas to look at, thanks

[@jrestexperience]

"The future's so bright, you gotta wear shades" song by Timbuck3 came to mind watching the 1st minute of this. 😆

[@sloopymalibu]

Nice video... also, nice scope... I have a TDS 224 meself...

[@ovalteen4404]

I wonder if Tempest has a test point for the Z input to the scope? Those vector games will have the X and Y flying all over the place just like you see on the scope, but what makes a coherent image is the "Z" axis which tells it what color (or none) to draw that particular segment in. If the scope can see when the board is saying "no beam", it should give you a clearer picture.

[@appliedengineering4001]

He would need an analog scope to do be able to this. Analog scopes have this feature. Digital ones don't and I don't think it's even possible ether.. Plus, a analog scope would do a hell of a lot better job at X-Y rendering then a digital one can.

[@michaelcalvin42]

@@appliedengineering4001 That depends entirely on the digital scope. There are digital scopes with an XYZ mode. There's nothing about a digital scope that inherently prohibits this feature (the Z axis just varies the intensity of the pixels drawn for the waveform).

[@annaplojharova1400]

​@@michaelcalvin42It just needs an extra ADC channel for it and most oscilloscopes of today (when the signal bandwidth is not limited by the ADC anymore, but by the amplifier in front of it, so the time base trigger could be using just the already existing digital signal data) would not have any use for that ADC for anything else. So given how niche this use is, they simply skip that feature to save cost.

[@kevinarmstrong478]

Fighting the good fight - great stuff

[@wackyworldofwindios3476]

Good Morning U All.

[@LyonsArcade]

Good Morning Dano!

[@sixtoes2313]

[@imduru67]

I agree, LOL. living in Lincoln Neb Coming from Neb, wonder where from?

[@gutsngorrrr]

I loved this game, hope you can save it. Looking forward to seeing the next episode.

[@LyonsArcade]

I never made another video on this one, we ended up fixing it and the guy picked it up. I think I shot a couple other segments or something, I can't remember what the problem ended up being.

[@z0ner69]

@@LyonsArcade Why would you post this then? What's to be gained, other than swapping chips that don't fix the problem. SMH. Otherwise I love your troubleshooting, but now I'll be questioning whether it's worth investing my time.

[@pauldzim]

@@z0ner69 Showing use of a scope in place of the vector monitor is a useful tip I think. He says in the description there is no part 2.

[@mikmurphy1]

@@LyonsArcade Unresolved cliffhanger!

[@Koettnylle]

This is so cool

[@ocsrc]

This is one of the classics It is one of the games you can't play on the MAME Because you need the spinner knob. TRON is another one that you need the special joystick Centipede you need the rollerball I still have not found a universal control that has the trackball and spinner knobs

[@ocsrc]

@Ambidextrose if someone could make a specific USB console that has these and has the TRON joystick, it would be cool If it was compatible with the Raspberry Pie MAME and the Pandora Boxes If it was plug and play you could sell a lot of them

[@ocsrc]

@Ambidextrose I really thought the Pandora boxes would come out with at least the spinner I realize the Tron style joystick would be a lot more expensive but the spinner and the trackball would seem to be relatively low cost and that they would put those in but they didn't You got to figure a spinner doesn't cost more than a joystick A trackball doesn't cost more than a joystick Even if they just had an add-on that just had a track ball and an ad on that just had a spinner and a button Maybe somebody that has the skills to build those and make them work with the Mame will see this and make one

[@jasonaabstone7593]

Actually you can play this using a trackball/mouse...Just have to remember when you move left your shooter moves right and vice-versa. I have played Tempest via trackball in an arcade in another country. It's tricky but very playable.

[@jasonaabstone7593]

Yes you can play it very well via M.A.M.E. .. Just use a corded mouse at 1200 dpi or better and one that does not use internal trackball. Infrared is preferable - Works well for Millipede and Crystal Castles.

[@chadhartsees]

When I was a kid and saw machines at locations/being operated, I'd commonly see sheets of plexiglass drilled into the cabinet covering artwork and the controls. But on channels like yours or others showcasing arcade games, I really don't see any games with these sheets on them. I wonder if the surviving machines people held onto were just in better shape and more original, vs. the ones that had been abused by screwing plexiglass onto them to protect them? Or perhaps people don't show off those rougher shape units with plexiglass? Or maybe it was just more common in my area?

[@waynegram8907]

JOE, What does the Bit Cushion do? I guess there are dipswitches to change the bit cushion to the DAC chips?

[@rubenflorez1181]

Do you guys fix pcb's

[@jasonsteverson4609]

Hey Ron!!

[@MrButtonpresser]

I'm pretty sure you made contact with an alien race at about 8:03 : )

[@GHILLIESARCADEANDMORE]

I Look forward too the next one

[@rubenrodriguez2590]

C'mon, C'mon... people... Joe is in the shot (reflection on monitor) at 06:07. C'mon Joe... get out the shot...

[@bruceferrero8178]

I may or may not have left cigarette burns on a Tempest game back in the early 80s?

[@scottgm321]

I don’t know anything about any of that stuff, so I can’t tell you you’re doing it wrong, but have you tried a few good solid palm slaps to the side of the cabinet?

[@LyonsArcade]

Uh... NO, who do you think I am, the Fonz???? Only the Fonz can do that!!!!

[@scottfindlay2625]

Man i miss this game, i was a master of this one i just could never finish level 106 or the game would shut down and reboot and erase all scores, according to atari at the time it was built that way...

[@cheeto4493]

Would an analog scope display the output differently? Not that it fixes your problem, I'm just wondering what it would look like. I figure about the same, but was wondering if some of the extra lines would disappear.

[@petermichaelgreen]

On an analog scope the movement speed will effect the intensity of the line, on a more basic digital scope you get a line of the same intensity no matter the speed. I belive digital scopes are capable of emulating this behaviour but it's the kind of thing that gets left out of lower-end models. What would really kill the extra lines is a "z" input that would tell the scope when to turn the beam on and off. I dunno if his scope supports that though or if the board has a testpoint for it.

[@kbramlett6877]

There was a MOD for tempest called "Tempest Tubes." By looking at the motherboard, how would you discover if it has been modded or not?

[@naytch2003]

Never seen this game here in New Zealand..

[@midnightrunner0478]

Roger, Roger. What's our vector Victor?

[@Not-Great-at-Gaming]

Do we have clearance Clarence?

[@edsonglutes8947]

Yay! Got the first LIKE 👍

[@LyonsArcade]

Thank you for watching Edson!

[@carlstanland5333]

One day I’ll learn the joke behind the *microfarad* whisper!

[@LyonsArcade]

I once accidentally said "Uf" instead of "Microfarad" and had multiple multiple multiple people correct me, I then started noticing that all of those people were so boring it was a huge mistake to try and keep them happy, and that if their only joy in life was correcting people on the 1 minor little thing they know, I would start imitating how incredibly boring they must sound when they say it out loud. So I just say it the way they say I should say it, which is incredibly boring and devoid of any kind of energy or protein...... Most of them never have channels but if they do they're so boring everything is a monotone never excited whisper of a voice, but hey they know what u stands for so they've got that on me and aren't afraid to tell me about it!

[@TheRealScooterGuy]

@@LyonsArcade Thanks for that explanation. I had been wondering also, but figured I'd find an old episode sooner or later where it started. Love the videos.

[@carlstanland5333]

@@LyonsArcade Thanks for the explanation! I love your videos and know next to nothing about what you’re doing, so there’ll be no correction from this guy!

[@ocsrc]

Did you actually fix this?

[@scottypinball2163]

As a Nebraska resident, I am asking you to kindly re import that game to its rightful State. It's obviously not happy where it's at.

[@LyonsArcade]

You darn Nebraskins already got all the good games!!!!

[@vk3hau]

@@LyonsArcade 😂

[@scottbrady7499]

0:01:45 "it's broke"

[@williamcooper2368]

U got to have the cigarette BURNS.

[@SpaceCop]

Is there a reason you say. "M i C r O f A r A d ?", like some sort of reference, or is it just you guys messing around. Either way.. I can't say it without that inflection anymore. Thanks Guys.

[@MoparStephen]

People gave him crap for initially saying "u F", or u rather than micro.

[@LyonsArcade]

I once accidentally said "Uf" instead of "Microfarad" and had multiple multiple multiple people correct me, I then started noticing that all of those people were so boring it was a huge mistake to try and keep them happy, and that if their only joy in life was correcting people on the 1 minor little thing they know, I would start imitating how incredibly boring they must sound when they say it out loud. So I just say it the way they say I should say it, which is incredibly boring and devoid of any kind of energy or protein...... Most of them never have channels but if they do they're so boring everything is a monotone never excited whisper of a voice, but hey they know what u stands for so they've got that on me and aren't afraid to tell me about it!

[@irieman442]

And the fun begins... monitors can be a real pain in the... It is not my strong point for sure.

[@classicarcaderepairs4818]

DAC0800.... dont use a DAC0808 wont work it must be DAC0800

[@lileveretteyoakumiii]

Yodelayheehoo

[@spencerm8598]

It's Broke

[@jasonoconnor6942]

YOUR DOING IT ALL WRONG!!! You have to carefully rub around the left side of the box to find the sweet spot and then give it a sharp thwack with the palm of your hand. 60% of the time it works every time… Your welcome.