Did Allosaurus Bite Like A Hatchet?! (Paleo Myths #3)

[@peeperleviathan4970]

can you do whether triceratops and torosaurus are growth stages of the same species

[@NeilDegrasseTysonWithAKatana]

Straight to "this idea is just the worst" lol

[@thefatherlydecoration4629]

Gotta love the Jack Horner grifter nonsense.

[@mb_allo-3023]

U need Better Wi-Fi?

[@thefatherlydecoration4629]

@@mr.hazamayukiterumi Wait till Jack hears about gorgosaur and despletosaur

[@alfredsupersauce]

My college professor tried convincing my class that they were the same. Like… no.

[@GTSE2005]

The hatchet theory never looked right to me. Realistically, if an Allo tried slamming its upper jaw like a hatchet, its lower jaw would literally break from the impact since it's also going to hit the prey.

[@emir_nurbekov]

Смилодоны тоже использовали метод топора, и они были довольно успешными хищниками

[@jeromemuang9677]

@@emir_nurbekovbiting like an axe would be impractical for any carnivore

[@rileyernst9086]

Way I see it, if it had a lower bite force, which it doesn't, that does not mean anything. If you are shearing or crushing like a mammal you need bite force. A kommodo dragon has a pretty respectable bite force 500-600 PSI, but it's teeth clapping around your leg and shattering the bone, or mangling the muscle with an inefficient mammalian(yeas I am using a little bit of hyperbole, only a little bit though) combination of crushing and shearing is not what you're worried about. It's the thing grabbing on and turning the muscle groups of your lower leg(and probably your shin bone, as living bone is not brittle and hard but relatively spongey and easy for enameled and serrated teeth to damage) into a bloody torn mess from which you will likely start to bleed out from quite quickly. I mean you will have a ton of adrenaline, so you will be able to run on it, and you're probably more preoccupied with escaping the 2m murder lizard than applying first aid... Allosaurus had cutting teeth, you don't need a ton of biting force to do damage when your teeth are sharp enough to cut through the soft tissues of another animal, you just need enough strength to keep what is essentially 2 sets of saw blades engaged with the tissues of the prey item.

[@safeysmith6720]

100% agree with you!

[@mitchellskene8176]

Are you only including animals in your Paleo myths series, or not? If not, covering the myth of grass not existing during the Mesozoic period would be fascinating.

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

For most of the Mesozoic, it didn't.

[@VenatorPaleo]

I’m pretty sure it appeared in the Cretaceous. But don’t take my word for it.

[@mitchellskene8176]

@@VenatorPaleo My understanding is it evolved in India around 100 million years ago.

[@Little-_Z]

Palm trees a relative to grasses too

[@Matt_History]

​​@@Little-_Z I think it's important to remember while grass that we know didn't exist other plants uses to hold the same niche. So there'd still be 'grass' it wouldn't be GrassTM

[@Yanivosaurus]

“That’s when it’s creature powers kicked in” Bro is really giving me Wild Kratts flashbacks

[@turkeyman100]

Dude that show was great, I had the same flashbacks

[@penguinlord6098]

Show was goated

[@Rexred09]

Best TVO kids show!!

[@yazurai4667]

forgot about that lmao

[@vaporean_boylove.0w083]

That gave me a great blast from the past!

[@christiancinnabars1402]

I, too, base my daily actions off of whether my bones will break upon doing it or not.

[@creakingskull7008]

I wish the specimen "Big Al 2" was named "Bigger Al"

[@krankarvolund7771]

I thought the same XD

[@oliverqueen474]

But then, if we find more Big Als, we’ll run out of big variations.

[@creakingskull7008]

@@oliverqueen474 We can still use "Very Big Al" and "Biggest Al"

[@thekingofdinos8518]

That WWD Stegosaurus made me want a video on whether or not they could change the plate's color as seen in the show. Also, I agree, that TierZoo dinosaur tier list is very infamous.

[@jeffreygao3956]

Hadrosaurs ARE POWERFUL!

[@thekingofdinos8518]

@@jeffreygao3956 Yes they are.

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

I made a similar video on my channel. Allosaurus's bite force was actually pretty strong, up to 10,000 newtons. For it's size, its comparable to a big cat. More than enough to kill prey with regular bites. But it's not implausible that it used some aspects of the theory but to a lesser extent. Its jaws were good for slicing and ripping. So it may have killed its prey by bleeding out arteries, ripping the throat, or etc.

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

Allosaurus had a tiny bite force. Of 7000 Newtons.

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

@@Tyrannosaurus_rex. no, it did not.

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

​@@ferociousrazordino3581 edited

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

@@Tyrannosaurus_rex. still wrong

[@victory8928]

The way I see it is that Allo’s feeding process is what drove the adaptions since they seem to specialise in hunting larger prey items so that means they need to butcher harder prey. Thus resulting in the ripping movements that the skull can handle. They may have used their teeth ti cut certain areas of ligaments especially in certain prey items to immobilise them.

[@joshuaW5621]

This was the perfect time for Paleo Myths to return. I can’t wait to see more of these.

[@richardmiller7705]

This is my favourite dinosaur so I’m excited

[@jurgen1395]

Well considering that it is your favourite then I’m guessing that the balled of big al is your favourite

[@richardmiller7705]

Yeah a bit

[@peabrain6872]

Same

[@doctorallosaurus7529]

I think I recall a theory that Allosaurus hunted more like a giant ground hawk: it would use its sharp claws and strong forearms to pin their prey down, and then use their teeth to slice and rip off chunks of flesh. Kinda like the RPR on steroids.

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

I could see that on smaller game animals it could grapple and pin down (an example could be how the Dilophosaurus kills the prosauropod in When Dinosaurs Roamed America) , on larger game it would probably just try to rip into the neck and sides until the victim died of shock and blood loss.

[@victory8928]

@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 dilo was a large prey specialist though not saying they couldn’t use that method to hunt smaller prey but they are large prey hunters. Large for the habitat might you

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@victory8928 Large prey hunters, but would have probably still hunted things smaller or roughly the same size as them. Dilophosaurus was probably the largest animal of his environment, he measured between six and seven meters long, and around 1,3 to 1,5 meters at the hips. The largest dinosaur I could find in the same formation was Sarahsaurus, a basal sauropodomorph that was around 4 meters long and probably weighed twice less than Dilophosaurus. Other dinosaurs are around 1 or 1,5 meters long like Scutellosaurus. But that's still big game ^^

[@victory8928]

@@krankarvolund7771 as one would call them. Giant billboards with billboards on their heads. Yeah I see where ya going especially with how important their arms are for hunting

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

@@victory8928 Well it was far larger than its prey species. Allosaurus was absolutely dwarfed by adult sauropods .

[@Lamacetus]

You should cover the myth on "hadrosaurs were not good fighters and easy prey"

[@turkeyman100]

Hoo boy, that's gonna sound more like a rant video than anything :😂

[@mhdfrb9971]

Here you go kzbin.info/www/bejne/nau7onqDfK98ba8

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

That is really just lack of knowledge not a myth

[@jeffreygao3956]

@@Tyrannosaurus_rex. Says the one who eats Edmontosaurs for lunch!

[@buckledben]

Yes please, i hate how hadrosaurs are depicted in media as slow bags of meat aswell

[@prosto-random]

1:27 Me: jack Horner, no !!! Jack: what Me: sorry. Force of habit

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

As everyone knows, the weakest bite force among all Allosaurs if not among all predators was that of Allosaurus Sapiens who used actual battle axes to bring down his/ her prey and them cooked them. He needed all the calories for building the pyramids. 😉

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

Lol

[@terrytheinsane]

Allosaurus actually hunted prey by shooting lasers out of its eyes

[@danghoang8457]

Komodo dragons are a good analogue. Serrated ziphodont teeth + powerful neck. They employ their jaws and neck in conjunction biting and pulling back to cut through flesh

[@juliusfucik4011]

I can rotate my arm 180 degrees. I can overstretch my elbow to the point my doctor believed I broke my arm... would I use that in a fight? Of course not. Just because you can open your mouth that much, does not mean you would actually do it when biting.

[@turkeyman100]

The extent of your double-jointedness sounds terrifying to witness

[@bentheg9793]

Can you imagine if a human tried doing a hatchet bite with their mouth?

[@peeperleviathan4970]

I tried it once once

[@12yroldedgelord41]

I tried it on my hand, hurts like hell

[@whoknows8101]

I hit my bottom tooth, and lose 1 tooth cuz of it

[@joshuaW5621]

That would hurt.

[@jeffreygao3956]

Owie.

[@Mr.M3447]

I would pull a douche move and ask for dinosaur lip coverings, but honestly I already saw that new study, but how about did Smilodon have lips covering its canines, along with any other saber toothed animals

[@krankarvolund7771]

The problem with lips covering is that the answer is: we don't know ^^ The only way to find if theropods had lips would be to find a theropod fossilized mummy with its lips preserved, which we haven't found yet. As for the new study, all the arguments they used were already knowed, except for the teeth argument... but they based it on one tooth. We have literally thousands of Tyranosaurids teeth, why only study one? That's not enough ^^'

[@buckledben]

I mean not having lips would suck if you wanna do something as simple as drinkwater. The only way to drink without lips is to take in water in your jaws and lift your head back. Easy for a chicken maybe but for a 6 ton animal like rex? It would be like doing pushups every time it would want to take a sip of water, extremely energy inefficient! There are no benefits for having no lip covering as a land creature. Lips existed in dinosaurs ancestor groups like snakes and lizards and there is no clear evidence of why theropods would need to evolve liplessness. I think the real reason this debate even exists is because how popular the 90s depiction of lipless theropods are. It’s silly since nobody is arguing if sauropods had lips or not as they where still depicted like they where in the 60 as far as main stream media goes. Imagine if we where still arguing if theropods where dragging their tails or not, because thats how everyone saw it when they grew up.

[@jeffreygao3956]

Smilodon fangs were too long to cover with lips.

[@nono9543]

The weak bite force argument is such BS. Of course it's bite force was weak compared to the T.Rex. The T.Rex was a peak hunter. That's like comparing a common black belt to the best martial artists. It's not a fair assessment.

[@frederikminten2898]

The hatchet bite would have been useless anyway because...how would this work a STEGOSAURUS?!

[@olivercosmicwolf756]

I always had doubts on the allosaurus hatchet bite thing because it sounded so ridiculous but thanks to you my suspicions were confirmed it never hunted like that

[@rileyernst9086]

I hate the hatchet attack idea, it's right up there with scavenging tyrannosaurus for me. It's like: WOW even if your lower jaw somehow does not hit the prey item you've impacted with the very tip of your jaw: delivering a glancing flesh-wound! You only grazed him!

[@drewluczynski9609]

Can we just bury the hatchet on this myth?

[@Anthony-co4wz]

I like that how talked about paleo myth. Great job. Also I'm curious on when you'll review Prehistoric Predators or Life After Dinosaurs.

[@Abominatrix650]

Good video, Red Raptor! It saddens me to hear that TierZoo's dinosaur video was wrong. I really like the guy's content. But thank you for correcting and old misconception. You're doing great!

[@IndominusRex-wc1ey]

A lot of TZ's anything revolving around dinosaurs is wrong. TierZoo made a statement against a pterossur specialist that he doesn't care about being accurate with dinosaurs because "it'll be outdated next year anyways" or something along those lines, that dented my reputation of him big time

[@jeffreygao3956]

@@IndominusRex-wc1ey I don't recall that happening.

[@yamiyomizuki]

considering that we know that the allosaurus had the capacity to pull very hard, and that it tended to grab pray with its arms, it seems likely that it simply grabbed on and then pulled and ripped until the pray went down

[@aidenraptor2595]

Honestly, I liked the idea that Allosaurus used its head like an axe for some time. When you “ranted” this idea in Planet Dinosaur I felt mad at you in disagreement, but now that you’ve explained the science in detail, still hating the idea but not being to Karen about it, I can see all the reasons for and against the argument, and I can finally accept the reality. So it is now more likely Allosaurus used its wide open mouth and strong skull and neck muscles as an adaptation for attacking large bodied sauropods and armoured Stegosaurids. Here are some other ideas for the “PalaeoMyths” series: Could theropod dinosaurs live and hunt in social groups (not just dromaeosaurids but every theropod in general). Did sauropods rear up on their hind legs. Did all the dinosaurs go extinct. Did Pterosaurs pick up prey with their feet. Did Tyrannosaurus have feathers. Can any large theropod beat a Tyrannosaurus in a fight. Are sabre-tooth cats related to modern big cats. Did early humans wipe out the Ice Age megafauna. Is Dimetrodon a dinosaur. Could pterosaurs walk on land (I had some people ask me this a couple of times). Is Argentinosaurus the biggest dinosaur (I’ve seen people referring to Patagotitan as the bigger dinosaur so I feel like that needs to be discussed in detail). Was Tyrannosaurus a pure scave-shut up @Aiden_Raptor, we don’t need to discuss this Jack Horner idea again.

[@Hood-i5f]

Allosaurus had never seen such ******* before

[@PrehistoricRager]

HOLY S***! THANK YOU SO MUCH! YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH THIS MEANS TO ME!

[@Austin-cn8vh]

Shoutout to the YDAW footage making it into another video.

[@BugattiONE666]

I believe Stephen Fry as one of the finest humans to exist, but he dropped the ball with that one

[@Kakaragi]

Please, any reasonable person would more say that Allosaurus attacked more like Carcharodontosaurus with making its prey bleed to death than using its head as a hatchet

[@buckledben]

The bleed hypothesis is probably also wrong. Allos teeth are made for ripping meat which it probably used for feeding and not for slashing and creating huge wounds. Its more likely that allosaurus ambushed its prey and used its immense size to overpower its prey to the ground.

[@Kakaragi]

@@buckledben Didn’t Allosaurus also hunt sauropods? I can’t imagine allosaurus using its size then considering how much more massive sauropods can be. Of course I proposed the carcharodontosaurus attack method because current studies put Allosaurids as the precursor for carcharodontosaurids (check out YDAW’s giganotosaurus video for more details), so it’s reasonable that they’d attack in a similar way

[@ComradeBobcat39]

​@@Kakaragi yeah I probably would have ran up to an apatosaurus and ripped a huge chunk out of it ate the chunk and if it wasn't full went for another go at it until the sauropod was dead or fought it off

[@artieziff345]

​@@Kakaragi I don't think allosaurids are the precursors of carcharodontosaurids, since both groups originated in the late jurassic

[@Kakaragi]

@@artieziff345 Again, check out Your Dinosaurs Are Wrong’s Giganotosaurus video for more details

[@GoGojiraGo]

No no no, Allosaurus didn't use its head as a hatchet. It *wielded* a hatchet which it used to attack prey with.

[@Raventhe3rd]

A paleo myth episode about whether raptors hunted in packs would be nice

[@jeffreygao3956]

I say it depends on the species. Smaller or middle sized species may have if they needed to hunt slightly larger prey although large species might not need to. And the packs could be organized any method from harems with a single male and multiple females(like lions), nuclear family(like wolves), inverse harem with a single female and multiple males(no known animal), or perhaps temporary coalitions(like coyotes or cheetahs.)

[@BigAl145]

I like to think on an alternate universe, there's firemen saying, "get the allosaurus bite! (hatchet)"

[@vxm1917]

In my eyes, Allosaurus would have effectively hunted sauropods like how lions would jump and latch onto large prey. They may not have a powerful bite that can choke its prey, but they would have killed with a thousand cuts instead. P.S Can you do a Paleo Myth about Hadrosaurs if they can, would and did kill any predator instead of always being the predator-fodder?

[@yamiyomizuki]

it's worth pointing out that while it didn't have a powerful crushing bite, it did have a jaw well adapted to pulling both backwards and sideways, and a strong neck to pull with, so it probably just bit then ripped rather than trying to bite and crush, that said the lion comparison is accurate in that we know it did also grab on and possibly drag with its claws.

[@artieziff345]

The paleo myth about hadrosaurs would probably require too much speculation, we don't know how they interacted with predators. We don't even know for sure if Triceratops, which is the most commonly found large animal in hell creek, could use its horns for defense

[@jeffreygao3956]

@@artieziff345 Nope, they definitely could impale things with their horns.

[@artieziff345]

@@jeffreygao3956 They couldn't "definitely" impale predators for the simple reason that the idea of the horns being developed as a form of defense against predators is just an hypothesis, no more valid than the idea of horns used primarily for sexual display, and we have no evidence of predators being gored to death by ceratopsians. I'm not disproving this idea because I have not the authority to do so, I'm just saying we shouldn't take it for granted

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

​@@artieziff345buffalos staring corner mecaningly with rhinos

[@biogeopaleo2736]

8:27 what the hell is CARNOTOSAURUS? By the way could you make a video on if abelisaurs really hunted titanosaurs? And how they would do it with such a low bite force?

[@jeffreygao3956]

I think the bite force got underestimated.

[@Pastamist]

The one thing I love about paleontology is that it’s basically Twitter but recognized as an official scientific field- With the field in question being the study of extinct animals, there’s not an awful lot we know about these animals, but there’s a lot of room for headcanon and educated guesses. Unfortunately, if you have a guess or theory that’s different from someone else’s, people will scream and roll on the ground throwing up about how it’s not “scientifically accurate.” Think of the Riddler’s mental breakdown from the Batman. That said, wonderful video and analysis.

[@nerdsamericashorts4887]

I remember when I was little I saw this theory in a book and Planet Dinosaur (2011 documentary) I thought it was so cool. I was so sad when I found out it was false. But I don’t care because Science doesn’t care.

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Omg i didn’t know that Mauricio Accton did a paper of Allosaurus

[@petroshalkos3453]

Evo is a legend and we can all agree.

[@toonrex2806]

At the end, you should’ve said “Let’s bury the hatchet”.

[@GDLeTaco]

Can you discuss about the "T.rex being 70% bigger than initially thought" topic in this series? It would certainly be an interesting video tbh

[@t-r-e-x452]

hold up! You're married! That's two paleo-tubers I know married! You & Beav's!

[@marshmellow6152]

WHO CAME UP WITH THAT IDEA OF ALLO BITING LIKE THAT 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@vitsvoboda2803]

Some ideas for the next episodes: pack hunting dromaeosaurids diplodocus whip tail egg eating oviraptorids weak fooder ornithopods megalodon alive today

[@redraptorwrites6778]

I've seen enough cringey Megalodon videos recently so I'm really eyeing that one for the future.

[@vitsvoboda2803]

@@redraptorwrites6778 np, but can I ask which one do you plan next, even if it isn't one of these?

[@above7793]

Pack hunting dromaeosaurs and egg eating oviraptorids are the only worth discussing. Dippy tail whip is similar to the allosaurus axe - it would hurt the dippy more than the potential victim. The last 2 are just coming from ignorance at this point

[@petroshalkos3453]

Finaly a new part !!!!

[@lekhaclam87]

Going into speculative biology a bit, I wonder what an animal with this hunting method would look like.

[@krankarvolund7771]

I don't think anything could be efficient with that method ^^' But I'd say something like a larger upper mandible, to have a clear shot and not have the lower mandible in the way, which would make eating afterwards difficult. And perhaps, no teeth, to avoid shattering them or losing them, but more like a sort of sharp beak in keratine and bone. Although that too could be chipped or break... Really, there's nothing that would really work ^^'

[@lekhaclam87]

@@krankarvolund7771 Yeah, it's not a good hunting method when it does more harm than good to the predator in the long run. Alien species like the ones in Snaiad may be able to develop this since they have a second mouth for feeding but not any known species in real life can.

[@jeffreygao3956]

I feel terror birds and Bathornis used something like a hatchet bite but because they're actual birds, I would just call it pecking.

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

For what it is, it's definitely not the worst in my opinion but it's definitely isn't a good one lol Overall great video, which I really love this one.

[@buckledben]

Could you cover the flesh grazing hypothesis. I personally find it very unlikely but it would be fun to discuss

[@spideyfanw1748]

That’s crazy, I didn’t know that the flesh grazing theory was disproven. The theory made sense to me. Instead of killing something 10x your size, just use your knife like teeth to rip a chunk of meat out of them.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@spideyfanw1748 Instead of killing something 10x your size... kill their youngs, or the other smaller things in the area? ^^' Like, lions very rarely attack elephants (and they're not ten times smaller ^^), they'll mostly hunt on smaller preys like antelopes and zebras, perhaps buffalos sometimes ^^

[@spideyfanw1748]

@@krankarvolund7771 Oh right, they could just hunt smaller animals or younger sauropods. But there are certain animals lions don’t hunt, because they can’t catch them. Lions rarely go after Gazelles and Rabbits, they’re too fast. (Yes rabbits live in Africa). There logically would have been certain small animals a fully grown Giga couldn’t catch in it’s environment. Once they reached a certain size sauropods were probably the only option. Plus their sharp teeth were perfect for causing blood loss and the best way to cause blood loss on a sauropod is to bite into the skin and rip the flesh.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@spideyfanw1748 Sauropodes are the only option? I think you greatly overestimate the running capacity of a Stegosaurus ^^' And I don't say they never hunted sauropodes, I say they never hunted adult sauropodes. They probably would have go for sauropodes that were their size or a little bigger, but a full grown adult? That's quite risky, and not really worth it ^^' "Lions rarely go after Gazelles and Rabbits, they’re too fast." Okay... And? There's not just rabbits and elephants in Africa, is there? ^^

[@spideyfanw1748]

@@krankarvolund7771 Who the hell told you that Giganotosaurus live in the Jurassic Period? Stegosaurus lived in the Jurassic 150 million years ago. Giganotosaurus lived in the Cretaceous 95 million years ago. Those two dinosaurs never met. And when the hell did Stegosaurus become an easy meal? Just like a Elephant and a Rhino, Stegosaurus would’ve been a very hard animal to kill for any carnivore. The fact you said that makes your argument completely irrelevant. Good day sir. PS: if you confused Allosaurus with Giganotosaurus (the Dinosaur know for flesh grazing along with Mapusaurus) than I guess you have a point. But Allosaurus didn’t flesh graze or least scientist never said it could. Plus Stegosaurus would be an even harder animal to kill for and Allosaurus. Even if Allosaurus won it would’ve definitely suffered some kind of injury. Plus I’m pretty sure Stegosaurs could run now. Palaeontologists got the reconstruction of Stegosaurus’s legs wrong. The hind legs weren’t as disproportioned from the front legs as we thought.

[@b4theDawn.]

Allosaurus may have hunted in a somewhat if not completely brutal way for smaller prey- it may have leveraged it's powerful neck and throw the small animal against a rock or against the ground repeatedly throwing it until it's soul gets evicted from it's body or just punting the creature with it's head hard enough combined with it's powerful neck muscles.

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

Bruh dinosaurs not brutal monsters they try kill preys as quick as possible

[@alfredsupersauce]

Sometimes all you need to theorize about paleobiology is a little common sense. Some of these dinosaur theories feel equivalent to fan fictions from popular media. The paleontologists have an idea that seems cool, and since they’re at the forefront of their field they can just write a paper, present it as fact, and get away with it since there’s little to no evidence for or against their hypothesis.

[@TheNightmareRider]

I read about the Hatchett theory in Steve Brusatte's "The Rise and Fall of the Dinosaurs" (2018) book, where he described Allosaurus as "The Butcher of the Jurassic". Even if the hatchet theory doesn't make sense, I'm still going to use the title of "Butcher" because it's metal AF. I can imagine that, once the prey is killed, it'd slice up chunks of flesh in smaller ways than to the T-Rex (which was built to crunch through bone). Also, If I heard you correctly, you mentioned a "Politically Incorrect Popping Motion". I'm not sure what "Politically Incorrect" is supposed to mean in this context, but okay.

[@redraptorwrites6778]

*Chopping motion

[@redraptorwrites6778]

As in the Tomahawk Chop

[@TheNightmareRider]

@@redraptorwrites6778 Oh OK. I guess you were running out of ideas for different descriptors, huh.

[@galaxydeathskrill5607]

Omg I read the book as well! Just a few weeks later the same author found a new pterosaur in our country. There have been recorded only Pleistocene animals, and with his discovery he added a pterosaur of *8-meter wingspan* . I've always wondered just when we'd have a Mesozoic reptile and he was the one to find it, I couldn't have been happier

[@Max_attack1234]

Do the T-rex is a scavenger but make it a short because it doesn’t need much time and you should put in “this idea is just the worst”

[@Indy44636]

Poor allosaurus .not only is there the hatchet myth but they had some bad luck.

[@justdl]

Lmao okay whoever thought of the hatchet attack has to be high AF or trolling.

[@vax3138]

Love the video

[@ГерманМак-д4ы]

So,"Dinosaur planet" was wrong about it?

[@azhdarchidae66]

dinosaur planet was exclusively set in the cretaceous, you might be thinking of planet dinosaur

[@ГерманМак-д4ы]

​@@azhdarchidae66 yea,"Planet dinosaur".

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

​​@@ГерманМак-д4ы yes, it was made in 2011, of course it is outdated.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@Tyrannosaurus_rex. I mean, in 2011, the hatchett hypothesis was already debunked, so it was not outdated, it was misinformed ^^'

[@rileyernst9086]

I can't fathom that people do not consider that therepods were using their teeth for cutting. If you catch a baby shark at the beach you do not use pliers to extract the hook because at 30cm long it has such power that it could sever your finger with sheer bite force, you do it because it's mouth is lined with serrated and sharp teeth that will cut you down to the bone with no effort. And then it will thrash side to side, it is an animal of side to side movement, and the end of your finger will be sawn off as it is being worked across that tooth row. Allosaurus had serrated and sharp teeth, it had narrow jaws and was a creature of forwards and backwards movements like a bird. It bites, and pulls back like a bird of prey it is pulling meat, osteoderms(mymorapelta carcasses) and bone across that toothrow, sawing into it. It can really pull hard and put a ton of force into this, as its high arched skull can absorb absurd amounts of stress, and what's another stress fracture in your feet anyway right?

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Allosaurus is my favorite Jurassic dinosaur. Modern lions to have a strong bite force around 800 pounds an allosaurus would have much of a stronger bite than a lion. Unfortunately I do not have a Patreon. I at least I can still support and awesome video

[@jeffreygao3956]

So then Carnotaurus doing the hatchet bite is equally unlikely.

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

When was it??

[@jeffreygao3956]

@@pierre-samuelroux9364 When was what? Give me clarification!

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

@@jeffreygao3956 yes we need proof!!!

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

@@jeffreygao3956 i was talking about carno hatchet i never heard about

[@jeffreygao3956]

@@pierre-samuelroux9364 I recall it was developed from comparisons with Allosaurus from convergent evolution. Because evidence of a hatchet bite for Allosaurus is faulty at best, then it's equally dubious for Carnotaurus.

[@maciejtrusz6840]

well i think so his bite was more like grab and drag just chopping off slices of enemy body exacly like falcons do what make his tooth shape actually usefull, eventually hold in fangs and attack with claws causing deep cuts

[@maciejtrusz6840]

btw wrote it right before u said that xD

[@dinoplayer8544]

I love your content

[@olivercosmicwolf756]

I bet the next Paleo myth video is about raptor hunting in packs and sickle claw disembowelment

[@BugattiONE666]

You say that ostriches dont slam their heads down at things, BUT THEY DO PECK at things, some kind of far fetched correlation?

[@armaniajoseph8668]

Make a another paleo myth about how is the true largest sauropod.

[@Lycan3303]

My fave theory was Allo using ita arms to hold on to prey while biting then using its legs and neck to rip chunks off the animal

[@oliverqueen474]

How it would that work, though? Its wrists aren’t pronated, so it would be holding the prey down with the sides of its hands.

[@PrehistoricRager]

If people thought of the idea of Allosaurus biting like a hatchet, I would say "Hey! Here is a dinosaur who commits self harm but is less dumber than the Idiotatyrannus (Nanotyrannus) from Jurassic Fight Club!"

[@catlover6263]

who else got the stacys mom reference?

[@ozthecapybara9182]

Video idea: Was T.rex a scavenger or predator? It being part of this series obvs

[@בניהובוזגלו]

t.rex has a toxic bite? That idea is just the worst T-rex was a scavenger, that's even worse Sauropods have trunks? Back to formula T-Rex has useless arms? that idea is just the worst Stegosaurus has a small brain? Perhaps Iguanodon use his claws for defense? Back to formula Nanotyrannus is a juvenile T-Rex? The very highest most likely Carnotaurus uses his arms for display? Most likely Did T-Rex has wings? That idea is just the worst Oviraptor stole eggs? Back to formula Did the Tyrannosaurus rex have feathers? Most likely (‏but not completely fluffy) ‏did mosa had forward tongue? most likelly ect

[@zackswaggin1876]

I have a question didnt like the iguanadon fight/defend itself using the there c!aws??

[@jeffreygao3956]

I guess getting Perfection level is impossible.

[@chriswatson7965]

Salukis kill with a variation of the hatchet bite. They run at their prey's neck with their mouth open at break the creatures neck. This is usually done when they hunt in a pack with the prey chased into the dogs that do the killing, but can be done alone. The atlas vertebrae on the saluki is proportionally larger to the head than other dogs. They have smaller heads and weaker bites. I'll also add that you misrepresented the Snively paper - "These analyses indicate that ventroflexive angular acceleration in Allosaurus was greater than calculated for Tyrannosaurus (Snively and Russell, 2007c), as was predicted by some previous studies (Bakker, (1998[2000]); Rayfield et al., 2001; Snively and Russell, 2007c). Forceful ventroflexion supports the hypothesis that Allosaurus augmented its bite force by ventroflexing its upper jaws (Bakker, 1998[2000]; Rayfield et al., 2001), and suggests that it could strike downwards quickly."

[@dondigao1057]

When i first saw the axe bite on Planet Dinosaur, it was pretty cool i guess

[@ChristianDinosaur1616]

I tried to hatchet bite my hand, it hurt a lot and my teeth feels weird but I guess humans, different from allosaurus, do have a slashing axe bite nice

[@macojo2477]

Question: how do scientists classify dinosaur fossils? Like, how do they figure out a certain bone belongs to that species and not to another species?

[@above7793]

A good question that needs a long answer. I'll try my best: Sometimes we get lucky and get either one very well preserved specimen, where bones are articulated and such. That makes it easy to describe this animal. As for classification we just compare it to what we have. The other way is, we find a dozen animals of one species and can safely say what it is and then compare.

[@korrasatsuki8773]

Just watch Komodo Dragons. Bam! You have an Allosaurus bite.

[@Utahraptor777]

Great video. Btw i found the RayField paper if you'd like a copy.

[@dogman9183]

Ty for the video

[@Joshua-Searle.]

Planet dinosaur was a 2011 documentary

[@landenriley8442]

What if Allosaurus did the same strategy as the Mapusaurus

[@jll682]

Can large sauropods swim?

[@jeffreygao3956]

Probably!

[@footl0se]

Paleo myths idea: lipless theropods, at this point can we all agree its a fact fhat they had lips?

[@BerryDeLajt]

yDaW is a great show.

[@azhdarchidae66]

true

[@swollenheadofdragon832]

Wait, would your next dino doc review be for Dinosaur with Stephen Fry?

[@PrehistoricRager]

Bite force is not necessary. Not when you have serrated teeth perfectly designed for slashing and inflicting blood loss to prey. It's the same thing with Carcharodontosaurus. That's something Allosauridae and Carcharodontosauridae have in common.

[@jesusmejia79]

Didn't planet dinosaur came out in 2011

[@MYNAMEISFROWNER]

Allosaurus has never seen such bulls#$t before.

[@jacobmcgraw9608]

Thank goodness Broken Jaw didn't try this.

[@MsMrBigglesworth]

Issue I see is that examples given were on a large near perfect semi-circular shape for such a bite to be problematic. Most sauropods are not shaped this way. I am not saying the hatches bite is fully correct, but what can be plausible is the idea of yhe attack similar to modern day monitor and Komodo dragon lizards do; which are side/downward bites to the side and a sideways pull. A bite type that is supported by the neck muscles and range of rotation on the Allosaurus. BTW, this was also stated as plausible by YDAW. Such a bite will cause massive damage to the side of a sauropod, which combined by possible blood loss, makes for an efficient hunting skill on attacking targets larger than the therapod. I don’t believe in the extreme bite size of 92 degrees as that would pose a vulnerability. But at a more reasonable bite range of 80 degrees, this would be a very efficient and plausible means of attack, without the enormous need of a heavy force bite like a T-Rex or other carnosaur.

[@prosto-random]

Idea for a next video: is saurofaganax a separate genus or species/synonym of allosaurus

[@IndominusRex-wc1ey]

Saurophaganax*

[@prosto-random]

@@IndominusRex-wc1ey Fixed

[@TheCaptain-ky1sx]

this is spooky, I literally just explained to a friend that allosaurus bit like a hatchet, oops my bad

[@matthewhaynes509]

Could we do the one where T. rex cow-tipped Triceratops?

[@jaderalbertoruedaberdugo9355]

Hi man, i have a while watching your videos and they are pretty good man, man I have a doubt, did albertosaurus have a bite force stronger than that of gorgosaurus, can you answer me pls

[@redraptorwrites6778]

Hmmm not sure if any research has gone into that specifically. It's worth checking out. They are each other's closest relatives, had a similar size, and a similar morphology. I'd be surprised if there was that much of a difference though it's possible.

[@nerdsamericashorts4887]

If I remember correctly (idk), I think I saw something about Gorgo being slightly more robust, so maybe it had slightly stronger bite, but I don’t think the person gave a source, so take this with a few grains of salt.

[@jaderalbertoruedaberdugo9355]

@@nerdsamericashorts4887 Oh thanks but i watched a video and he explained this, albertosaurus had a more compact robust skull, so he could resist more stress, i am a colombian and the video is in spanish so none of you would understand so thats what i know, anything that is true is good

[@nerdsamericashorts4887]

Oh ok sorry. I didn’t think the person was right, but I thought it would be a good idea to share the only info on the subject I had. But thanks for correcting me!

[@jaderalbertoruedaberdugo9355]

@@nerdsamericashorts4887 Oh thanks to you, its more that of a debate about the truth, idk which one had a stronger bite

[@jesusmejia79]

How many Paleo myths are there and can you do a list like the one you did for the dino docs tier list

[@popevader.5875]

Make a dinosaur with stephen fry video

[@mariedufore8795]

Press X to Doubt

[@Ornitholestes1]

Actually, specimen selection isn’t the issue when it came to bite force estimation, methodology is. Big Al (MOR 693, the specimen analyzed by Rayfield et al. 2001) and Big Al 2 (SMA 0005, the specimen analyzed by Bates and Falkingham 2012) are essentially the same size, and also have similar-sized skulls (both about 78 cm long). This also isn’t really an argument, since if this were not the case, we would not just expect a larger specimen to have a stronger bite force, but also a stronger skull, so the discrepancy noted by Rayfield would still hold. Of course it’s not a "fair" comparison with _T. rex_ either way, as when talking about _T. rex_ specimens that are used are almost always towards the bigger end of the spectrum (like Stan or Sue), whereas the exact opposite is true for _Allosaurus_. But that doesn’t really have any bearing on the "hatchet-bite hypothesis" either, as the reasoning behind that was not primarily the comparison between it and _T. rex_, but rather the discrepancy between a very strong skull and a fairly weak bite force. The variation in dry-skull-based bite force estimates is mostly explained by differing assumptions about muscle architecture and the corresponding physiological cross-sectional areas of muscles (Bates and Falkingham 2018). In the case or Rayfield et al. 2001, the bite force was estimated under fairly simplistic assumptions, namely by modelling the muscles in clay, bisecting these muscles at the thickest point to estimate the area, and then multiplying that area by values for specific tension (i.e. completely disregarding muscle pennation and fiber length). But the tension a muscle can excert is proportional to the summed cross-section of all its fibers (the physiological cross-sectional area, PCSA), which is determined from the fiber length and pennation area in addition to the anatomical cross-section (what Rayfield et al. measured). That’s likely the main reason for the very low bite force estimate, and the higher figure in Bates and Falkingham, which used more realistic values and carried out sensitivity analysis for those values. However here we run into a bit of a dead end, because the exact muscle fiber architecture of _Allosaurus_ and _T. rex_ is unknown, and likely unknowable. There is a whole range of possible values, and the most probable scenario is not necessarily that they were both the same. Higher PCSA for the same muscle volume of course has a payoff, namely a shorter power stroke, so it is plausible that all else being equal, even animals with essentially the same jaw muscle sizes might have very different bite forces depending on their functional specializations. In the case of _Allosaurus_, supposed specialization for very high gapes has been noted previously by Bakker 1998 based on the morphology of the quadrate, though it could do with some more quantitative testing. Such adaptations may make a muscle architecture that would maximize bite force, but restrict gape, less likely. Lautenschlager 2015 tested muscular constraints to gape angle in both _T. rex_ and _Allosaurus_, using the same assumptions for both, but it is quite plausible that for one the lower and for the other the upper value would be more plausible, and in that case the reverse would likely hold true for bite forces because these two are a direct payoff.

[@Ornitholestes1]

*Regarding the main claims made in the video*: I think you are actually ignoring or misrepresenting the scientific evidence here quite a bit here. E.g. at 09:54 you list a number of points that, with the exception of the very unscientific term "worthless bite", are all the current scientific consensus. _Allosaurus_ did have a very strong skull, this was demonstrated conclusively by Rayfield et al. 2001, and has never been refuted in any followup research. Maybe it will at some point, but there is no reason at all to suspect that it will. Based on that, for all we know, it absolutely could have swung its tooth row down into prey without "exploding its face" (another very unscientific term that I’m not sure of the origin for, but that just seems like an argument from repitition of the previous point about whether its skull could have withstood the impact). It’s musculature arguably was "perfect" (though that’s again not necessarily a term I would use) for that exact motion of swinging the head and neck downwards, this is conclusively shown in Bakker at al. 1998, and then confirmed repeatedly by Snively at al. 2007 and 2013 in their detailed anatomical description and computational analysis of the muscles in question. You then proceed to dismiss all of those points in a manner that I personally find a little tasteless ("because my mother drank when pregnant or something") while pretending to ignore your concerns with them for the sake of the argument, but in the same sentence make the unsourced claim that "if any Allosaurus were to try this , it would get itself injured immediately" (around 10:20). Which again seems like it is a repetition of the question of whether it’s skull was strong enough to withstand this, or the point about whether its face would "explode"…so by my count that makes it the third time within half a minute that you repeat this argument, even though it is both wrong, and you claimed in the sentence before that you were ignoring it anyway. And then, you proceed to treat that, which I would say at best amounts to an opinion of yours, not a scientific fact (that _Allosaurus_ could not have rammed its skull into prey in the manner portrayed without injuring itself) as a fact, and as sufficient evidence to refute previous quantitative studies on the matter. What’s going on there? It is true that Antón et al. argued somewhat convincingly against the more "sensational" extreme of this hypothesis (Bakker’s "samoan war club analogue"), which tends to be what gets portrayed in paleo-media like Planet Dinosaur or apparently that weird paleo doc with Stephen Fry that I haven’t seen, but Antón et al. didn’t conduct any quantitative analyses or refute any of the quantitative evidence (strong skull, ventroflexive moment arms of muscles) brought forth by other analyses. It is true that they raised some important points, e.g. about risks of jaw dislocation and tooth loss when biting into large prey items, which would certainly warrant further testing (but which also require that testing if we want to argue these concerns as factual). However there are also reasons to doubt the validity of these concerns. Evidence suggest that the inability of large theropod teeth to deal with bone contact during feeding has been severely overstated in the past, with trace evidence suggesting even Jurassic theropods, such as _Allosaurus_, bit into bone fairly commonly and forcefully, leaving large score marks (e.g. Chure et al. 1998, Hone and Rauhut 2010). Not to mention that large Allosaurus coprolite that has more bone in it than similar specimens of _T. rex_… So to treat this one study, whose content mainly consists of arguments from disbelief and not of quantified data, as if it had somehow conclusively somehow disproveneverything before and everything that came after is frankly just wrong. It definitely raises points that warrant further exploration in the future, e.g. (at least I am not aware of it already having been tested, but I would not be surprised if someone did) it would be interesting to look at tooth replacement rates in _Allosaurus_ (there are major differences between different dinosaurs in this regard, as shown by sauropods, and such differences can offer a clue as to activity), and also for a more detailed study of the jaw articulation (descriptive evidence from Bakker suggests that it was uniquely, at least among theropods, specialized for high gape angles and to resist disarticulation, but it would be valuable to see if quantitative data support this. Until then I would be a lot more cautious when dismissing scientific results based on these concerns as if there were some sort of consensus against them. As for Snively at al 2013, they in no way refute either hypothesis, primarily what they do is analyze ranges of motion and muscle action, and their findings would be fully consistent with either or both Antón et al.’s and Bakker’s hypothesis of head function (which anyway are not as different as you make them sound). Interestingly, they do not really comment on this question at all or "take sides", even though they provide a wealth of data relevant to the question at hand (sort of the exact opposite of the paper by Antón et al., which makes a lot of commentary on previous hypotheses but provides very little actual data). For example, they do show the exact thing that Bakker suggested, that _Allosaurus_ has major muscles that are lateroflexors (the M. long. capitis superficialis) in other theropods exapted as ventroflexors. They also show that _Allosaurus_ has a flexible neck and a light skull, suggesting the capacity for quick and precise head movements, which would seem to be a prerequisite of such a slashing bite. That the study examined feeding motions that would consist of drawing the head and neck back (which you misinterpret as "the exact opposite" of the "hatchet bite") doesn’t contradict that. Another bit of food for thought, since you already show the Dinosaur revolution footage inspired by such a specimen (the "Labrosaurus ferox" dentary), is that such a killing strategy being risky does not necessarily make it unlikely, we also have to consider the evidence for risky behaviour, es well as the alternatives. For example there are at least two specimens of _Allosaurus_ that show a pathological dentary (see Foth et al. 2015). While we don’t know for sure how these pathologies happened in either case, they could be consistent with claims that "hatchet biting" might put the mandible at risk of being damaged. Of course they are not evidence that this must have occurred, they merely stress that _Allosaurus_ seemingly did break its jaw not too uncommonly, which Note also that as noted by others already, biting and holding on to a giant prey item, which is the alternative to a quick slashing bite, may well be as, if not more risky. In other words; It may be wise to consider the available evidence a bit more carefully, and to look at what studies actually say and don’t say, as well as to think about whether things you are saying are scientific consensus, facts, or just your own opinion or disbelief on something. I think it is generally a big problem in online communication that people get these things confused, which is especially dire if they are made to look like a somewhat authoritative fact-check on something. *--refs:* Antón, M., Sánchez, M., Salesa, M.J. and Turner, A. 2003. The muscle-powered bite of Allosaurus (Dinosauria; Theropoda): an interpretation of cranio-dental morphology. Estudios Geológicos 59 (5-6): 313-323. Bakker, R.T. 1998. Brontosaur killers: Late Jurassic allosaurids as sabre-tooth cat analogues. Gaia 15: 145-158. Bates, K.T. and Falkingham, P.L. 2012. Estimating maximum bite performance in Tyrannosaurus rex using multi-body dynamics. Biology Letters 8 (4): 660-664. Bates, K.T. and Falkingham, P.L. 2018. The importance of muscle architecture in biomechanical reconstructions of extinct animals: a case study using Tyrannosaurus rex. Journal of Anatomy 233 (5): 625-635. Chure, D.J., Fiorillo, A.R. and Jacobsen, A. 1998. Prey bone utilization by predatory dinosaurs in the Late Jurassic of North America, with comments on prey bone use by dinosaurs throughout the Mesozoic. Gaia 15: 227-232. Foth, C., Evers, S.W., Pabst, B., Mateus, O., Flisch, A., Patthey, M. and Rauhut, O.W.M. 2015. New insights into the lifestyle of Allosaurus (Dinosauria: Theropoda) based on another specimen with multiple pathologies. PeerJ 3: e940. Hone, D.Hone, D.W. and Rauhut, O.W. 2010. Feeding behaviour and bone utilization by theropod dinosaurs. Lethaia 43 (2): 232-244. W. and Rauhut, O.W. 2010. Feeding behaviour and bone utilization by theropod dinosaurs. Lethaia 43 (2): 232-244. Lautenschlager, S. 2015. Estimating cranial musculoskeletal constraints in theropod dinosaurs. Royal Society open science 2 (11): 150495. Rayfield, E.J., Norman, D.B., Horner, C.C., Horner, J.R., Smith, P.M., Thomason, J.J. and Upchurch, P. 2001. Cranial design and function in a large theropod dinosaur. Nature 409 (6823): 1033. Snively, E. and Russell, A.P. 2007. Functional variation of neck muscles and their relation to feeding style in Tyrannosauridae and other large theropod dinosaurs. The Anatomical Record: Advances in Integrative Anatomy and Evolutionary Biology: Advances in Integrative Anatomy and Evolutionary Biology 290 (8): 934-957. Snively, E., Cotton, J.R., Ridgely, R. and Witmer, L.M. 2013. Multibody dynamics model of head and neck function in Allosaurus (Dinosauria, Theropoda). Palaeontologia Electronica 16 (2): 1-29.

[@bentheg9793]

Planet Dinosaur is from 2011