Did Hazbin Hotel Stick The Landing? Review Episodes 7-8

[@Daggoth65]

The biggest thing the show needed was Twice the runtime, Either hour long episodes or Twice the episodes. Needed more room to breathe and develop stories and such.

[@undertakernumberone1]

twice 3 times imho, to have some good breathing room

[@LUCAS420BLZ]

I think it just needed better writers or better pacing because they crammed so much, had a lot of time skips and weird out of place character moments Overly focused on songs that don't mesh with the narrative, but fine they're good songs As a show no it's bad but as something to watch it's okay, I think the entire idea of the show could be better if someone else had more time to fit all of this and pace it better or just wrote a different show based on the pilot because of the constant inconsistencies

[@thesupernaturalhouse]

For real, he'll even just 4 more episodes aouldve helped them flush out the rushed things

[@franciscarojas7295]

I deffinetly agree. I noticed that in every episode there were main concepts, for example in the second one we met te vees and get information on them and how they affect hell and the characters, in third there is the reunion, the angel and Pentious becomes a guest, but in episode six there is just so so so so much happening in comparison to the rest, also it all happends fast, but then there is episode 7 where each girl goes to her journey and that lasts the whole episode and at the last minutes they add something that was very important and meaningful, everyone stayed and wanted to protect eachother and the hotel

[@randomdegenerate9180]

I think that this could have been accomplished, but Viv and co rushed because they were afraid that the show would be cancelled abruptly, like how many other animated series have been in the past few years.

[@Moonlight.Howlings.666]

Sir Pentious went from the comic relief character to an absolute Chad in the span of 8 episodes. Kissed his crush. Refused to elaborate. Died in battle sacrificing himself. Was redeemed. So happy for Sir Pentious! Oh, and remember when niffty said he is not a bad boy? What a hell of foreshadowing.

[@Mediados]

I'm glad he got a proper scene at the end. He was a comedic relief, but inside his warship, charging into battle he felt powerful and mighty, no matter if he was obliterated or not. And for his display of pure courage and selflessness he was properly rewarded.

[@sandsandwich9217]

I think you mean "elaborate further" since he did elaborate that he did love her

[@antimatterr5071]

My dude did you just copy like three comments at the same time from people commenting on a similar video

[@Rockrgrl4]

I honestly thought Angel would ascend to heaven first. I really did. 😭 I’m SO happy for Sir Pentious though. Your comment is now making me think of Nifty’s scene where she takes the knife after Charlie says for her to “stab angels” and she chases Angel Dust. I am now almost positive Angel Dust will be next in season 2!

[@BasiliscBaz]

When i grow up i want be like him , real hero 😢

[@Adrian-aaaaaa]

14:49 “ She stabs him once, stands her ground proclaiming herself to be the princess, *and now he’s choking her* “ I love 😭😭😭

[@BadassHater1]

Yeah it's kinda weird how Charlie got her badass moment cut short like that

[@Adrian-aaaaaa]

@@BadassHater1 gulp gulp gulp gulp

[@yourfather8865]

@@BadassHater1 It's to show that she's willing to fight and give everything she has, but also lacks any kind of combat training, or even just training in her demon form, because she doesn't really seem to control it. To me it makes sense, hopefully if the show goes on we'll see more badass moments from her

[@Mathadar]

Pretty normal for magical girl shows too. Just watch Sailor Moon or Card Captor Sakura when they fight their BBEG, they get their ass kicked, hard, have to learn, grow, and train to be stronger, and now her daddy Lucifer as well as her mother Lillith will be involved next time.

[@jer103]

1. Charlie didn't fight the entire series until the final episode. 2. Even in the final episode, she only used a shield during the beginning of the fight. 3. Charlie is lover, not a fighter. (in general)

[@Hanmacx]

Charlie to Cannibal Town: "im going to free your people" *no reaction* Alistor: "also free food" *everybody cheers*

[@camerondalton1495]

Well, they gotta a lot of work to do if they still want to redeem the sinners. 😅

[@mannamoth918]

Relatable

[@dudesayshi2191]

​@@camerondalton1495 especially people like Hitler and well cannibal town

[@wilberwhateley7569]

A bribe of BBQ angel wings goes a long way in that part of town…

[@icarue993]

So Canibals are just a bunch of university/college students?

[@yves9055]

So my personal guess for why Lucifer wasn't there sooner is because of the deal he cut with Heaven. Lute said that he got all of the hellborn demons exempt from the exterminations. The logical demand Heaven would exchange in exchange is that Lucifer not interfere with the exterminations of the Sinners, seeing as how he's easily powerful enough to take on the Exorcists solo. Helluva Boss established that contracts made with beings as powerful as the Sins are supernaturally binding, so Lucifer might've been physically unable to step in until Adam rendered the deal null and void by attacking and actually hurting Charlie.

[@sparton1o185]

This makes incredible sence

[@13xPetra]

That’s a REALLY good point

[@Jachra]

This is exactly what I think happened.

[@SuperAnimefan22]

That's actually a very interesting point.

[@ske_kt2048]

I totally agree but imo it should still have been communicated on-screen.

[@keilykobain]

Why am I just now realizing vaggie is suffering from severe Millie syndrome. Her existence is basically being carried on the back of Charlie even WITH the Angel arc. Love vaggie but she just had so much more potential

[@WhitneyDahlin]

Yeah she's only there for the ship as of now. If I was the writer I would actually give her a flaw. Like she loves Charlie shes afraid to lose her or have Charlie get hurt. So she becomes controlling and starts making decisions behind her back "for Charlie's own good". Like one of those people who have good intentions and love someone so much they try to control their loved ones life. It tracks with who she is and it's really relatable.

[@merlin5662]

tf is millie syndrome?

[@MadeMeExist]

​@@merlin5662 They're referring to Millie from Helluva Boss, who is married to another character named Moxxie Helluva Boss is another show created by VivziePop, which can all be watched on KZbin Millie is commonly known for being described as just "Moxxie's wife" Many people's reasoning for this is not seeing much of how she is outside of Moxxie, most of the things she does revolve around Moxxie, and just the underdevelopment of her character as a whole Hence the "severe Millie syndrome" the commenter had stated

[@merlin5662]

@@MadeMeExist alright I get that now but they phrased it weirdly. Like I genuinely looked it up what they mean (BC I thought they were referring to a actual condition) and was just as lost.

[@MadeMeExist]

@@merlin5662 Maybe one day, it'll show up in the Urban Dictionary, Idk

[@comensee2461]

The only character that had a complete character arc this season was Sir Pentious. He started off as a joke villain, was hired as a spy, was shown forgiveness and welcomed in after being outed, became friends with everyone, and at the end willingly sacrificed himself for them. His entire death and resurrection in Heaven proved to Sera that sinners can be redeemed.

[@Not_Kritikal]

Sir pentious truly is best boi

[@Jdudec367]

That isn`t a bad thing though, over coursing character development makes sense for the more core cast like with Angel Dust and Alastor for example.

[@daveroll6463]

sir pentious is actually the true main character of hazbin hotel, my guy had amazing character development and won a W in heaven

[@surenderreddy8144]

He kinda became my favorite character just cause of that. Like the other characters are cool and all, but I’m such a sucker for dork-to-badass-but-is-still-a-total-doofus kind of arcs

[@MyShiroyuki]

As Rosie said "actions speak louder than words" and Pentious more than proved with his actions that he gave up his evil ways and became a good man.

[@silence_dais]

Sir Pentious not only made it to Heaven, but he got ported right in front of the two angels who give great facial expressions of what this means: one is happy because it means Charlie was right and the other is horrified because Charlie was right and the genocide was never necessary.

[@smutnejajo5149]

He also bypassed st. Peter's gate for some reason, is he supposed to be the 3rd seraph or something? lol

[@Maber610]

@@smutnejajo5149 plot hole

[@SoulHero7]

​@@Maber610 I think that was God Himself directly showing these two angels specifically that Charlie's plan worked. Emily is now justified for sticking up for Charlie. Sera can't hide her mistakes behind her rules anymore.

[@WhyNot-sb9vx]

@@SoulHero7 God doesn't exist in the continuity. Vivziepop has stated that she is uncomfortable with depicting God as a character.

[@kulehulfer4385]

​@@WhyNot-sb9vxif she did though, she absolutely should've tried to get morgan freeman on as his voice actor

[@nightdweller2902]

This show has a "we wanted to do more episodes but Amazon would only give us eight" kind of vibe to it. It feels like the writer's found out that they weren't going to get as many episodes as they wanted and panicked, and then tried to stuff as much of what was meant to be a longer show into just eight episodes out of fear that they wouldn't get to tell the story they wanted to tell otherwise. But then we already know that season 2 is confirmed. I love this show, but it leaves me just feeling confused. That said, I'm so glad that Sir Pentious made it to heaven and really hope we get more of him.

[@RRed19]

That is kinda what I was saying in another thread, Amazon Prime wanted proof of concept. My main issue now is the fact that yeah, we kinda needed maybe 2 more episodes, just for some worldbuilding and such. Other than that, this series is a labor of love made with blood sweat and tears, and it did well.

[@Luxord5294]

While I cannot confirm this happened as I wasn't there, I get the sense the HH crew were told "You get eight episodes, wow me" and that left them scrambling. Also, while the second season is confirmed, here's the question: 'When did they get told their second season was greenlit?', halfway through production or perhaps later than that when 75% the scripts were complete and animation was half done? Honestly most of the criticism I have found every online reviewer has for Hazbin boils down to everyone beating off on their high horse about "Pacing, pacing, pacing. It's too fast." which is utterly disingenuous when we've all known they only had eight episodes to work with and no guarantee of not being cancelled halfway through production; of course they have to move the plot along quickly or they'd get to the end of the season and only be halfway through the story. Frankly SC is one of the biggest offenders of this, which I hate to say because I find his points insightful more often than not, because look at what all of his videos on HH have boiled down to for the most part: pacing, character beats he feels weren't earned(?), and tell not show (which I do agree with somewhat). Lastly: I agree, really glad Sir Pentious made it to Heaven and I cannot wait to see where that plot thread goes.

[@JackedThor-so]

It's giving MAJOR Owl House season 3 vibes

[@VoicedNat]

YES!!!!!!! This is happening with A LOT of shows, looking at you Wheel of Time.

[@shaelynmartin1996]

I've noticed this happening with a lot of new shows recently. Primarily with newer IPs. It's like this thing where the studio heads aren't certain on if a show will land, so the creators are only given a certain amount of episodes (Oddly enough, the magic number all studio heads seem to agree upon is 8 for some reason?). They usually get longer in later seasons as they become allowed to make things longer. Which is, again, odd because that used to be the reverse. With earlier seasons of a show being longer than later seasons.

[@AliceQuinnRose]

I think Vagie’s character growth should’ve been her realising that she’s identifying as a meat shield. She was a solider who’s primary goal was to defend her general. She fights with reckless abandon as though she can’t be harmed. Her learning to prioritise her safety was necessary. Should fight out of love. But minimises herself and endangers herself in the process.

Yep a truly good soldier is one who understands if they recklessly put themselves in harms way, it can get others hurt or killed. It would give her some growth based on going from Angel Exterminator to a true protector.

[@megawonszrzeczny9]

She reminds me of Pearl from Steven Universe in that regard

[@m0nsterVera]

I think that’s what they tried to do, by what we saw in the Trust fall episode. She believed the best way to trust someone is in battle, maybe if they explored that more on how she could be confusing genuine trust and love to what she believes it is, which is the trust and love you need for your comrades in battle. Especially it could be an arc where she tries to identify the love she has for Charlie, we all know Charlie loves her but does Vaggie truly love Charlie for her. Or does she love her because Charlie is supposedly in charge? Does she love her like a partner or a General?

[@Sifya]

​@@m0nsterVera plus I think there are lot potential in exorcists. What are they? They are created in this ways? Are they humans from violent death, who don't get treated and with propaganda turning in fanatic army. Remember we haven't seen exorcists in heaven except for lute and Adam, I wouldn't be surprised if they are prisoners, estremination has never got out in 10000 years, it is not easy task with such big army. Can exorcists be lied about vaggie betray? I would not be surprised if Adam and lute told vaggie killed exorcists and run off with Charlie. So in second season show me exorcists with doubts, who stay in silence because they know lute would kill them.

[@kiaheat1920]

Food for thought

[@dunkev4152]

Though I do feel a bit conflicted on how they decided to kill him off so soon, Adam dying to the literal walking punchline is easily my favorite part of the series so far

[@windows7504]

I feel like they're not done with Adam- Honestly, if Sir Pentious could get redeemed and ascend to heaven in his death, then I think vise-versa could be true for Adam.

[@ellaartenstein853]

Maybe Adam could be reborn in hell, cause like we saw it happen in reverse for Sir Pentious

[@toadlord8594]

I do honestly Hope that we see Adam reborn as a demon in hell, in Season 2 cause the guy is still a Very entertaining Laughably Evil character. Personaly the dude seemed like a wanabee Handsome Jack in my eyes but was very fun. @@ellaartenstein853

[@minuette1752]

Adam was a good season 1 villain. He is toast though. He died once already and was killed by an angelic weapon.

[@syrusangi8743]

I have a feeling he'll comeback as a sinner in season 2. Could be wrong but it's a fun thought

[@worldwaide]

Your idea of Vaggie getting her wings back after her act of mercy is a GENIUS idea! I was with everyone else who thought her getting her wings back during her training didn’t make ANY sense, but linking it to her prime purpose of existence completely eliminates that problem. This show writes itself so I’m so confused why we’re forcing weird decisions into it

[@grynnlecoprolithecosmique585]

I feel like Alastor genuinely started caring about Charlie and the others and it gets him mad. He doesn't want to care, it goes against everything he represents. Him always smiling is also a way of hiding his real smiles anjd vulnerability.

[@saralovelace7219]

I agree that he was starting to Feel things and getting conflicted. Near death experiences tend to make people examine their priorities... I think he was a little disgusted with himself and how easily he'd fallen into Charlie's metaphorical spell when this is supposed to be purely transactional. I think he's worried if he doesn't find a way out of the deal, he might just succumb. There's a desperation in his eyes when he says "the constraints of my deal surely have a back door" that implies a sense of urgency.

[@ellencoleman4604]

​​@@saralovelace7219 I personally thought he was just angry he wasn't powerful enough to defeat Adam, since it seems to be his entire motivation. Going by his history, he probably isn't used to losing. I also thought his desperation over getting out of the deal was over how he can't keep faking that he cares much longer. I was surprised how many people read it the complete opposite way.

[@smcphee8499]

Still feels like comes out no where. He started caring in episode 4 but before that he hardly interact with her before that.

[@origami6479]

As long as i see Alastor as a villain, a real threat, a guy who totally deserve his place in Hell, i still think that somehow he is fond of them, as long as he can control them, but his ambitions and his desire to be free are way more important to him

[@brandonscott5544]

AWESOME!

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Vox's reaction to Al getting his ass kicked was everything.

[@LOLrpop]

Fr 😂

[@mekiherring2088]

honestly he's me every time toga gets her ass beat in mha

[@toadlord8594]

Seriously lol! The Hotel Battle was his Super Bowl!

[@SimplyThinking677]

THIS IS BETTER THAN SEEEEEXXXXX

[@veronicapiccinini7956]

And Valentino’s reaction at Lucifer’s threat of f*** Adam, or when Nifty killed Adam?

[@Snow-sx5ev]

The biggest issue with the show is the pacing. It REALLY needed twice the runtime as everyone else has already stated. I never got to feel as if I knew any character well enough.

[@AdaireKrickets]

This! I feel like I'm watching just the "key episodes" of a larger show. Companies really want to kill filler and in-between episodes but fail to realize that good media need to give people time to learn about their favorite characters! I really wish we had a few more episodes where the group interacts with each other. Actually, get on each other's nerves while "recruiting" new souls for the cause.

[@RRed19]

When the worst thing I can ask from a show is “More” it’s pretty good in my book. Tbh I think that they only got 8 Episodes was due to crunch and well… Amazon Prime being Amazon Prime, where if you don’t immediately get people hooked, you die out fast.

[@sorra300-]

Or vivzie needed to cut down some of the plot and be more focused. We dont need every character story when we do t have the time

[@noahzandy5752]

One of two things need to happen either extend the seasons or extend the episodes if u wanna keep it at 8 episodes then add more character dialogue and extend episodes to around 35-45 min if not keep the episodes at around 20 min and have each episode expand the plot with a lot of development in between while not moving the plot all that much

[@durttheelder4035]

@@RRed19 I think a key difference with wanting more for other shows and this show is that this show teases you with the ideas of good stuff but sprints past them like they were barely there some other shows that I remember wanting more from I just wanted more seasons maybe some stuff in between episodes and such but never more time inside of episodes which I think this show desperately needs

[@marli8907]

It had its issues, and I loved that Carmilla summed up how I felt about Vaggie. "You knew I was an angel?" "You have an x over your eye and an angelic weapon....yeah." 🤣

[@noobmasterruben5167]

Lmao. Carmilla is basically us the theorizers who expected Vaggie to be a fallen angel

[@Valorian6167]

I do feel conflicted because while the answers were right in front of us, the fact that they made this to be a serious moment but also had this joke that it was obvious. Another can't have your cake and eat it too moment

[@brainflash1]

But of course Charlie couldn't tell.

[@streakgaming6106]

​@@Valorian6167hidden in plain sight and hindsight is 2020 are sayings for a reason... plus it is a COMEDY its gonna joke.

[@larrytherustyboii7442]

​@@Valorian6167I refuse to believe that literally nobody tried to use a holy weapon to fend for themselves, it's such a dumb reason. As well as how carmilla found out that vaggie was an angel, so what if she has an X on her missing eye? It's an eyepatch, the other angels only have Xs because it's part of the mask, that's a massive stretch. But vaggie holding a spear that is a holy weapon from heaven is a dead giveaway, so I'll give carmilla that.

[@danielferrieri7434]

Here are my Highlights for the Hazbin Hotel Finale 1. Charlie's chat with Alastor 2. Adam vs Alastor 3. Lucifer's Shapeshifting 4. Lilith's (?) First Appearance

[@RichardDiazWright]

Niffty and Sir Pentious?

[@sev1120]

I think Adam dying to Niffty, who's been losing to bugs the entire season, is a good gag. Like, he's less than even a bug

[@dapperdabber13]

I winder what favor Alastor will garner from Charlie in season 2...maybe that's the back door he mentioned in his song.

[@imspoilerina9228]

She’s a housekeeper who takes out the trash. Get it?

[@Jokin_Jake]

The Charlie and Rosie conversation in episode 7 was definitely one of my favorite bits of the season. Genuinely really good lessons told during that. Hope Rosie comes back.

[@christophergirardi8145]

Perhaps the thing that resonated with me the most in the finale was Adam's final moment: him genuinely smiling at Lute. From what little time we got of him, we knew Adam as this arrogant, self-important, surfer-bro, but that smile felt like a brief look into his actual depth. What was he thinking in that moment? Was he just happy she survived? That he got to see a familiar face before the end? Or was his smiling knowing one of the women in his life chose to stick around, because at least in his eyes, she cared for him despite his flaws. I don't have an answer, but it's interesting to think about.

[@silentoccasion4359]

I really wished that Adam's death was taken a bit more seriously at the end. Same thing with Sir Pentious's death. Adam's reaction towards killing him made sense but it still felt like it was played off as a joke, which is kind of insulting given that the hotel, the main setting, was devoted exactly towards redeeming characters such as him. It did not feel like the right way to go about things.

[@user-gp5yz5yz4x]

​@@silentoccasion4359I have the opposite interpretation, I feel like a character like Adam is meant to show that even very nice characters like Charlie (and her entire philosophy) have limits. Adam felt like a character that was given every chance not to be an asshole but was one anyways. Showing that redemption is not entirely idyllic

[@silentoccasion4359]

Interesting. Either way, after Adam's death it's now Lute that's in charge. From what I've seen, Lute's may not be as dislikeable but she's also far more brutal than Adam.@@user-gp5yz5yz4x

[@yourfather8865]

@@silentoccasion4359 I think the way they killed adam is good, because like you said, the hotel is about redemption, and when Lucifer was about to blast Adam into oblivion, Charlie stopped him. But in the end, he dies by the random murder gremlin because he happened to be in her vicinity.

[@silentoccasion4359]

@yourfather8865 I mean fair enough but I still felt like Sir Pentious could've been done differently

[@IMO-e7v]

I’m really hoping Adam comes back as a sinner in season 2, he’s just too good as a character. If Angelic steel can permanently kill, angelic magic should as well. If Sir Pentious can die and come back an angel, there’s no reason Adam can’t come back a sinner.

[@camerondalton1495]

Agreed. I hope he comes back. I like his dynamic with Lute.

[@genericname2747]

Irony at its finest. An angel falls as a demon rises

[@lordmordor4805]

I hope the same. They have basically never really touched on the weirdness and the idea of what happens in regards to "dying again in the afterlife". Could be that the mortal life sets you up in Heaven or Hell...but dying again then judges you based on your actions in the afterlife. Pentious turned himself around, and went to heaven....Adam, was Adam, and could then just pop into Hell as a sinner.

[@Norikosama562]

Me too, he was just too good to waste and I think it would be hilarious to see his interactions with the main cast and/or other sinners.

[@nathanblackburn1193]

I mean it has to otherwise Pentious wouldn't actually die from it, even if a sinner's body gets completely destroyed or in a situation like they're eaten they will simply reappear in hell like respawning in a game, Adam's magic killed Pentious just like an angelic weapon would

[@chimmiebomb]

I’m SO glad you mentioned Sir Pentious’s death scene. Like. It was built up to be super dramatic, played for a laugh as he died, then the tone shifted to be super dramatic again. Not only that but SP was a character that quickly became a fan favorite during the course of the show and to just have his death try to flip flop between comedy and dramatic rubbed me the wrong way. That was probably my biggest issue with that episode and it took me out of the scene.

[@luxmyjulius5468]

They did SP dirty; I was rooting for him till he got one-shot by Adam and then all of a sudden there's drama towards his death. It's a mess, there's no build-up going on through his character. Feels like a roller coaster going up and down quickly.

[@m0nsterVera]

It also happened so quick, then at the song finale there’s moments of the crew referencing him. Yet it seems like no one ever truly mourned except for that moment

[@madfrog7913]

While i do agree with this, they likely didnt make his death as dramatic because it wasn't his actual death.

[@Renikee]

At first I thought he was gonna come back somehow, but that really was his death it seems... It really was way too fast. Shows a big contrast between his and Adam's power level, but still, I expected more.

[@charlottegardiner5620]

I'm surprised you didn’t mention the plot hole that is Vaggie. She said that she didn’t know angles could be hurt with angle weapons, yet she lost her wings and eye to one. If she had told Charlie why she was found injured and that it was Lute who did it, we could have avoided one of the biggest plot points of the show.

[@Radiospossessor]

I didn't realize that until just now 😮 out of everyone Vaggie is my least favorite because she plot points feel unnecessary. I did like the song she and Charlie sang together though, it was the first time they felt like a real couple.

[@charlottegardiner5620]

@@Radiospossessor Yeah, I feel the same.

[@pippastrelle]

Charitably, I'd say it didn't occur to her because she was fallen/being kicked out of the angels. Either she assumed her divine protection left or she knew that angels could hurt angels (but demons couldn't hurt angels so the information wasn't helpful).

[@smcphee8499]

Exactly! Camilla character is so unnecessary. Vaggie is right there!

[@Valorian6167]

I do call BS that Vaggie never was like "why are you helping me don't you know what I am" to Charlie when they first met. Because if I were working for a genocidal army and was helping by the leader of the people I was attacking, my first question would be wtf

[@TimeMakerMan]

I liked Lute was crying for Adam and he smiled at her. Her shouting "NO" and yellin Adam's name felt personal. I see that they liked/respect each other.😢

[@camerondalton1495]

Same. I really like their relationship. I'm surprised that neither turned on the other. I hope he comes back as a sinner and they meet again.

[@toadlord8594]

I'm kinda excited to see Lute undergo a Girlboss Corruption arc next season now that Lilith's "Deal is off" so I'm interested in seeing where she goes now.@@camerondalton1495

[@valentinkambushev4968]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had a "colleagues with benefits" relationship that wasn't as non-romantic as they had thought.

[@camerondalton1495]

@@entidade_000 Same. Makes him more 'human' if that makes sense.

[@the_second_channel]

@@entidade_000 "nice work dangertits"

[@sabschatz]

my personal headcanon on why lucifer showed up late was because dazzle got killed (technically a sacrificial lamb) near the end, so in turn lucifer showed up near the end

[@lern2reed]

Oh shit, I think you’re right. Especially with that line he had in his song with Alastor.

[@JJ-tz2sv]

No way 🫣🫣

[@goblinofsharksnacks]

He has to be summoned by pentagram too theres a process, if he appeared at every lamb killing it'd be wild

[@thesupernaturalhouse]

His dad senses were tingling

[@ninjagirl226]

My thought is that he chooses not to intervene in the exterminations and this might be why the hell born are not supposed to be targetted, but when Adam hurt Charlie/dazzle that broke that rule. Like Lucifer knows Heaven has rules they have to follow and him seeing them break makes him think he has to act. Idk. The issue I have with Hazbin is while it’s kind of nice everything isn’t spelled out it leads to arguing in the comment sections cause nothing is clear.

[@muixc]

Small nitpick, it drove me crazy when Carmine asked Vaggie if she knew angels could get hurt, and Vaggie said no. Vaggie, who is an angel whose backstory is all about how she got her wings ripped off and eye stabbed out. She's an angel who has been hurt before! What does she mean she doesn't know? If Carmine asked her if she knew a sinner could hurt an angel, then it would make sense. I sincerely think that's what they were going for, but that one missing word changes the whole meaning, and it irritates me.

[@DecayOpossum]

My guess is that she thought since she spared a demon she was no longer an angel and that’s why she could get hurt. But then again, i think it should’ve been better explained in the show.

[@ferntheinkling]

I agree with this

[@Supershadow301]

True! Now that's a plot hole.

[@t.dmattocks6119]

@@Supershadow301 Sounds less like a plot whole and more like a badly written line in context.

[@skyesfallenxx]

I'm pretty sure Vaggie just thought Carmine was asking "Can angels be hurt by _demons_". Probably because whether or not angels can be hurt by other angels doesn't matter, angels aren't on Hell's side.

[@Strongclaw47]

I feel like the problem with the consistentcy stems from how we barely have any episodes to really expand these characters to really let these things develop, Like ONLY 8 episodes thats not enough time to set everything up

[@Jachra]

They couldn't be sure they were getting a season 2 until they were mostly done, too.

[@olivalu3022]

same, 8 episodes weren't enough for this kind of story, especially for just one season. There should have been more in between

[@nick.100]

Think about it from Amazon perspective though. The chance the show would even break even with 8 episodes wasn’t guaranteed and could have easily have been a huge money pit

[@nirablackfire2792]

And somehow the majority of the viewers are...happy with that? Legit I don't know why. I made a comment on one of the ads a few days ago about Hazbin's pacing problem and how they need more episodes to develop characters so the impactive moments actually FEEL impactful, and I got a bunch of people telling me "No, it's perfect, God I don't want this show to turn out like one peice, don't give me 10 seasons of filler!" And I'm like... bruh... Apparetly people can't understand there's a nice big comfy gap between exploring characters, letting them develop, and 20 seasons of filler infused dead ends. And it's overly annoying.

[@TheOfficialDjProduct]

I agree. Or I've seen, an anime did 1 hour long episodes. That meant they could get away with fewer episodes, but put a lot more meaning into each segment. Hazbin Hotel really would of benefited from something like that, considering that no episode directly segmented into the next. If episodes did transition to the next one or the time skip was more understandable while still making the last episode extremely relevant, then a 20+ episode season would or been better.

[@mythic_snake]

I think the reason Lucifer waited so long to join the fight was because he was bound by a legal contract. He agreed to allow the extermination to take place, as long as certain people were spared. As soon as Adam genuinely threatened Charlie's life specifically, the contract was broken and he was allowed to step in and take control of the situation. It's not that he was busy or distracted, it was that he literally COULD NOT due to some magical binding he had previously agreed to. It was the same reason he didn't accompany Charlie into Heaven. He literally couldn't go there.

[@Chaotic_by_Choice]

@@oddgbmo3036 What do you mean?

[@alekk3687]

See this actually is a really good way to explain his late arrival. But this is something that should be put in the show, not kept to the confines of headcanons and theories. This would’ve been a perfect way to write Lucifer into this fight on a late arrival, but they skipped that entirely and just went with us expecting it to make sense. And these kinds of flaws are unfortunately constant. ;; I still goddamn loved these episodes though.

[@mrcheese5283]

@@alekk3687Completely agree. If there was a reason other than “because” it should have been there.

[@Chaotic_by_Choice]

@@alekk3687 I think it's less of a headcanon and more of a fact that people can get to by knowing the series

[@rockinryguy7]

@@alekk3687I agree, although Alistair’s deal with Charlie in the previous episode implied to me that deals like that are supernaturally binding.

[@GuidingLightAngel]

About Alastor and his potentially empty threats, I think it's intentional. During the finale song he seems genuinely confused by what he did during the battle, he was nearly killed while fighting to protect the hotel and his "friends", something that he himself can't even believe he actually did. The end of his part is basically him trying to tell himself that they are just a means to an end for his freedom (specifically Charlie). Which is why I think he seems so into the idea of the hotel and supporting Charlie's goal, the consequence is that the hotel and it's people are genuinely starting to get into his ice cold heart, something that he did not account for, which seems to be a pattern these last few episodes. Alastor didn't account for Lucifer showing up, he didn't account for the possibility of a massive gap between him and Adam, and he didn't account for the possibility that he would actually enjoy the company of those at the hotel. What I'm trying to say is, Alastor thought that he wouldn't get attached, but he did, not by a lot but still, and whatever deal he has only rubs salt in the wound, and it's biting him back now and probably later.

[@pykeplayer4007]

I wonder if his deal involves being nice and not being able to actually kill anything. The forced smile and his desire to be free, I think his deal forced him to hold back and he can’t unleash his terror

[@chilichinashop]

I agree. I honestly like the idea of Alastor having this inner conflict of what his relationship with Charlie me the hotel will end up being, and the mystery between his contract’s of his caged free will 👀

[@sonorasgirl]

Eeeeexactly. He’s realizing his care and bravado nearly got him killed and that scared the SH*T out of him, since he still values himself way more than anyone else. He’s used to not caring for most people and it snuck up on him, plus he’s used to being in control - the final fight showed him how out control he is and that scared him. I think he also is the type who is so accustomed to putting himself first that his whole conflict is going to eventually boil down to relaxing control and allowing himself to care for others as MUCH as himself. He’s never done that I would guess.

[@sashacarter4371]

I absolutely agree about sir pentious death because they made such a great build up just for him to "die" in literal seconds is just so dirty. They needed to make an animation of him fire all his ammo on ship on Adam so he would avoid it and when sir pentious realized that he's all out, he hugs his little egg henchmen one last time before Adam finally destroys them like he did in the show.

[@tjones7341]

That would have been SO MUCH BETTER!

[@ello7720]

fuck I blame Amazon for not letting vivi cook like this 😭

[@sashacarter4371]

@@ello7720 oh absolutely, as much as I'm happy for her for getting her series finally released to the world, I just wish Amazon gave her more time to make more episodes so it wouldn't felt so rushed as it is, after all animation, story, characters and so many other things takes so much time to make.

[@bibbobella]

It was kinda funny though.... Anti climatic, somewhat badly done, but damn if I didn't laugh out loud at the sudden "Ohh, that could have been bad!" Line from Adam. I mean we got that from Adam's death, so it really wasn't necessary, but I did honestly find it somewhat hilarious how useless his sacrifice was.

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@bibbobella the issue is, that this is something we've already seen... with Moxxie... Twice. And, for me, it wasn't funny back then either! The first time was the second fight with Striker in Harvest Moon Festival, when he, as he has Striker on the ropes, gets the room door kicked into his face by Loona, allowing Striker to escape... The Second time was when he calls his dad out, just to get unceremouniously cut off via taser, so that Millie gets to save him!

[@edwinbasa2804]

Loved that Adam smiles when he saw Lute before he dies... It like hes happy theres someone beside him before he dies... Both of his wives left him but theres someone beside him one last time.

[@valentinkambushev4968]

I didn't realize how much I ship them up until Adam's death.

[@camerondalton1495]

@@valentinkambushev4968 Right? I know some people hate the idea, but I ship them.

[@tonyspizza6606]

Dude....i would love too see that lute realises, hey demons are okay. If adam comes back to life in hell. Could be really interesting.

[@edwinbasa2804]

Theres also a Berserk reference, When Lute pulled her arm and it tore her off to help fight with Adam.

[@tonyspizza6606]

@@edwinbasa2804 and then luzifer fucked adam infront of her, just like in berserk

[@ZetatheSixth]

You know what this show is like? This show is like an over-eager chef who has so many ideas for exciting foods for you to try and in their haste they try and bring them all to you out at once, balancing all the dishes on their hands and limbs and head. But then the chef trips over their own feets and the amazing dishes go flying. Some hitting you in the face, most of it on the ground, and some realatively unscathed. Then the chef gets up, wipes some of their own creation off their clothes and sheepishly smiles at you asking "So? Do you like it?" And with all the hard work theyve shown, you really with all your heart want to say "Yes". But...

[@JackebBee-iz7qi]

💀

[@Magimell]

This is such a good way to put it omg

[@wr3eckeriv640]

Absolutely hit the nail on the head

[@leasbianboi2363]

Perfect way of putting it honestly

[@dontlookatme6395]

HAHAHA perfect analogy

[@CalvinKalisto]

The ONLY In Canon Explanation of Why Lucifer showed up to the fight late is because it was mentioned that Lucifer pardoned the hellborn demons from exterminator which was mentioned in episode one, so maybe he couldn't step in until the angels broke that rule and attacked Charlie. It would have been so easy to add that in because it was already built up. Have him say something like, _"Sorry, I'm late, I needed them to attack a hellborn or less I couldn't interfere."_ It was right freaking there man! It's so frustrating! Also, I never for a second believed that Charlie was in any kind of danger because her father would obviously protect her and oneshot the angels. It's unbelievably stupid the angels didn't expect that. What I thought they were going to do was attack the hotel, and try and kill all of the people Charlie cared about infront of her while they incapacitated her. That's would have been so much better. Also, also, Why did Charlie not immediately go to her father for help in the first place? Why bother gathering an army when you can literally call a *flying nuke* on speed dial. This is the problem of adding an OP character with no restriction in a story, they fix the problem in the most serious situation but are nowhere to be seen for the rest of the fight.

[@len2122]

That honestly makes so much sense!

[@saralovelace7219]

I think they didn't expect that because Lilith has been the one feeding them Intel and she didn't know Charlie and Lucifer had started to fix their shit. She would have told Adam that Lucifer was too broken to intervene.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

I just assumed he lost track of time making a duckie that does TikTok dances and also serves a pocket hand sanitizer

[@kittypeanut4102]

​@@esteemedmortal5917nice, that's my headcanon now

[@bibbobella]

That makes WAY more sense. Also, would do for a pretty interesting fight between Charlie and Adam. Like, it would need to change quite a bit of course, but what if we heard Adam say something along the lines of "Oh, and save the little "Princess" for last!" to his fighting force. It could come off as him just wanting her to be his plaything, but could also make people think he might have reason not to fight her. Then, after Sir Pentious dies she finally lets her powers out, and ACTUALLY becomes a threat. Like, the other angels stand NO CHANCE against her, so Adam, in order to keep her busy, starts fighting her only to force him into a situation where he actually just wants to kill her. They could make it be because his pride gets hurt, as I wouldn't put it past the character to easily push his own pride way above any possible rules he had been told, and that is what ends up being what gets him killed. I think it would be fitting if they made it way more clear that one of the seven deadly sins were the reasons for his downfall even if it could be argued that Charlie was acting out of wrath.

[@EnchantFortnite]

I’m so happy Sir Pentious was redeemed. The snake was the first sinner to reach Heaven!

[@valentinkambushev4968]

Now, if only Cherri can redeem herself so they can be together again.

[@mx9226]

Yo this is my comment from another video!

[@Mediados]

@@valentinkambushev4968Well angels seem to have no problem going down to hell, so they can be anyway.

[@lillraindrop]

Literal Chills

[@narutoxley]

Ironic that Adam was the one the redeemed the first siner

[@BeigeEyesCroissantDragon]

Pentious admiraled the fuck up. He did what any fleet commander would do. He saw how dire things were, heard Alaster had lost, and knowing full well he's a weaker man than said overlord put his... snake tail down. Took his capital ship, and ran a suicide mission. Praying with every fiber of his being the death ray would be just strong enough to buy everyone else time. Likely to escape. He died for his people. He's earned that place in heaven.

[@ZetatheSixth]

Anyone else feel like this was 3 seasons worth of content crammed into 1 season?

[@camerondalton1495]

Yes, but it's a miracle it turned out as well as it did and still has people enjoying it for the most part.

[@yamataichul]

💯 ​@@camerondalton1495

[@the-little-napoleon]

I mean would've you rather it have the pace of a snail? I really am SO glad they didn't decide to drag it out, any other show would've dragged it to season 4-6.

[@sleepycat4472]

The pace is fine for me, bc I always think general shows are too slow

[@shammoi]

I thought the pacing was too fast. Helluva Boss suffers the same issues too but I give it a pass cause it takes so long for episodes to come out

[@TheCommenterDragon]

I was very proud of Sir Pentious, He did it all. He finally kissed and or confessed to the girl of his dreams, He sacrificed himself for both the hotel and his friends, And in the end he made it to Heaven his redemption was well earned! Though I hope we see him again in season 2, Because after all he can't just let his friends continue thinking that he's dead. So he'll probably want ot let them know that he's alive and well.

[@derpy_angel]

I feel like Emily could get in contact with Charlie through Lucifer somehow just like how he got her a meeting in heaven she could tell Charlie that a new soul from hell came in

[@BTFxDrumMachine]

I'm willing to bet we haven't seen the last of Pentious. I feel like he'll play a considerable roll in the next two seasons, even if it's just in Heaven cutaways for the time being. He proved that Charlie's theory is right, and now the Seraphim know that.

[@swordhunter12]

Honestly, there's so much you could do with one of the gang in Heaven, especially since it looks like that realm's about to get shaken up in a big way. Still kind of sad the hotel lost a member of their found family.

[@moxiclean608]

Something small you didn't mention but I thought felt odd, was that vaggie literally never uses her wings? Like never in the battle. It really bugs me too because charlie falling when adam lazerbeams the whole tower in half would've been the perfect time for vaggie to fly down and catch her.

[@williamparker7025]

Viv has said Charlie has wings too but we never see them

[@admiralkaede]

makes sense shes half angel@@williamparker7025

[@zeelovesu172]

The real Hazbin Hotel was the friends we made along the way!

[@diamondkone]

I have a feeling Charlie might had watched a lot of MLP growing up. Lol.

[@oljackie35]

that piece once is now not realll

[@Byeebyeebyeee]

@@diamondkone new headcannon. thx

[@bunnyconcubus8468]

​@@diamondkoneMost likely thought that what happens in MLP happens in real life with enough positivity

[@welcometothericefields7783]

​@@diamondkone If there have a long relationship developing characters like mlp would be so good but i hope it isn't too long like 9 seasons with only friend ship that almost made me puke out a rainbow lmao.

[@neonstarch3210]

Hazbin Season 1, for me, feels like a meal that tastes delicious but doesn't leave you fully satisfied. The music, the characters and the animation are all stellar but the lack of time to flesh everything out just made it hard to get really invested in everything. It sucks because I like Hazbin and I wish I was in love with it like everyone else but my brain just can't help but notice the cracks. Maybe that'll change with season 2 but they really need to polish some things. Still, congrats to Viv and her team for making it happen. I wish them all the best with season 2

[@Kemoine112]

Thank you for saying what I’m feeling as well when it comes to this show.

[@carabarabonanza]

One thing I think wouldve really saved the "Out for Love" song was if Vaggie realized she doesn't JUST love Charlie, but the rest of the hotel, seeing them as her friends. Little flashback moments that make the whole of who shes fighting for bigger than just her girlfriend. We never really got to see her bond with them though unfortunately sooo that couldnt have been done :p

[@toadlord8594]

Honestly it’s kind of ironic that Viziepop said in social media that Hazbin Hotel would be more focused on the FEMALE characters and Helluva Boss would be MALE focused but personally the biggest reasons for me (and most of the fandom's reasons) watching this show are for the Guys. The Mystery and entertaining nature of Alastor, Angel Dust's character and hoping he can break free from Valentino, Sir Pentious being a precious uwu Good boy, and Husk, heck even Adam the Villain of Season One! And Certainly NOT LEAST, LUCIFER!! Who as Sarcastic Chorus described is Charlie (With Depression) but feels Way more fun and bounces of very Well with the other hotel members. And especially his Jealousy with Alastor! MALE CHARACTERS at best being the most popular and more attention grabbing in the than the actual female characters we’re supposed to be invested in (Charlie and Vaggie) (in my eyes).

[@harrylarry6324]

That's because Vivzie knows how to write true gender equality, instead of trying "please trends" and writing Mary Sue's

[@smcphee8499]

You tell she care more about the male characters. That response was bs.

[@killingyoursoul22]

Yeah, you can tell she's more enamored with the male characters she created.

[@SparrowofSong]

I made a similar comment on one of SC's recent HH videos, I'm frankly impressed by how on topic your replies have been

[@Not_Kritikal]

​@@harrylarry6324Or, Vivzie just sucks at writing important female characters, Millie, Charlie, Loona, Vaggie, there all just okay or even poorly written, none of them are quite as impactful as the males.

[@Jonathan_Collins]

Imagine how devastated Lucifer and Charlie will be when they find out that Lilith was enjoying the comforts of heaven all this time while they were in hell, Lucifer completely alone and Charlie not knowing anything about her for 7 damn years, not even a message or anything... 😞

[@Squirmychair]

Yeah I’m really curious to see how that plays out. Lilith effing off to heaven and abandoning hell and her daughter don’t seem like the actions of the mother Charlie describes

[@marieseaman7855]

I'm wondering (hoping?) it's Eve posing as Lilith and made this deal because she thinks she deserves to be in heaven

[@moononthewindynight27]

​@@marieseaman7855 Literally this. I have a gut feeling it's actually Eve and real Lilith is trapped somewhere

[@thomas_nutter]

Devastated? Lucifer will appreciate her body after a healthy sunburn. He likes them hot like hell, you know?

[@johanstenfelt1206]

@@moononthewindynight27 hm, could be possible, but we’ll see.

[@rosiepear7531]

Am I the only one who noticed that Sir Pensious appears directly in heaven, in front of Sera and Emily, rather than outside at the gate with St Peter like Charlie and Vaggie going through a portal?

[@HandofOmega]

If I had to guess, maybe it's because he was *already* dead, and the gate is just for the newly dead?

[@Renikee]

Well that's how they must have known that redemption is possible, if he was a human dying, he wouldn't have gotten to the place where he is being decided if he goes through the gates of heaven or not.

[@nemo-chan9252]

I have a feeling Emily had something to do with it since Emily looked happy and excited like she knew.

[@RoosterW]

Either Heaven itself has some weird rules in place to beam new arrivals straight to the Seraphim if their situation is too strange for St. Peter to deal with, or he was beamed to them by St. Peter after Peter realized what he was dealing with and that whole interaction just happened off-screen.

[@thebiggestkid6534]

Also to note his character has multiple eyes on him like the Seraphim

[@thelastcrow5660]

Honestly, I wouldn't blame the team. They did everything they could. If only Amazon gave them more episodes. The show was definitely a fun ride, imagine how good it would've been with a 20 episode season.

[@foxpro3002]

hopefully the second season is longer.

[@JamesRT1291]

Thank you that is what I have been trying to say. This season got Legend of Korra-ed. I think A24 and Amazon didn’t think the show will be that popular, but with the hype and the success of Helluva Boss made them reevaluate.

[@JamesRT1291]

@@foxpro3002yes it will be, Vizzie, A24 studios, and Amazon have confirmed that season 2 will be 16 to 12 episodes minimum.

[@MarinelliBrosPodcast]

Maybe not 20 but I think a few more episodes like 13-15 would of helped

[@helsmify]

I don't know why people think more episodes would solve the problem. The real problem is that too much was done. In stead of more episodes, they should've cut more plotlines, or at least saved them for a later season. Take the Heaven stuff and put it in season 2, then focus on the characters in Season 1, you know, like a normal writer would.

[@GabyWith1B]

On Alastor's character, I think two things can be true at once. He has a selfish plan from the beginning, but I think being at the hotel steeped in ideas of comradery, loyalty, and redemption is almost "softening him" around the edges in a way he does not always admit to or see as a problem. You can see it in the way he tells Mimzy to leave; he's calm and subdued in a way that suggests he knows this is a better decision even though he doesn't like being told (by Husk primarily) that he was wrong to invite her in. You can also see it and hear it in how he scolds himself when he slinks up to his tower after he's hurt. He's not just reaffirming his evil plan, he's also admitting to himself that he was not acting as the bloodthirsty villain and it bit him in the ass. And I, personally, enjoy an Allistor who wants the fuck everyone over when it's growing harder and harder by the day more than an Allistor who is purely laying in wait.

[@isabelharrison304]

I really like your take on this! It’s obvious that they are building something big with Alastor he’s had a plan since day one, and I think you’re right, there is a conflict in how he views all the other characters as both pawns and now friends, I don’t feel like he saw this as a problem until the finale when he lost was tried to knock some sense into himself to follow his plan to free himself and take control over everything!

[@pippastrelle]

It's been very consistent honestly that Alastor acts according to his ego. When the hotel he publicly sponsored is threatened, he defends the hotel. When anyone doesn't acknowledge him enough, including anyone at the hotel, he'll prod them until he's proven himself. Mimzy was a great example of this. He liked being relied on, he didn't want to admit to Husk it was a mistake, and he didn't want the Loan Sharks to think they could beat him. Still, he didn't want the hotel to seem attackable, especially because of a friend of his, so he got her to leave. Then, with Charlie, he gives her advice and help to keep the hotel running; he puts on a fatherly show to prove he's more important than Lucifer; and in the next episode he's prodding her to both rub in the fact she's less competent than him and to make her accept his help in her next step.

[@XenoVT]

Yup, I saw his song when he's in his tower basically him saying he kinda started getting alittle soft and it almost got him killed. The whole lyric about him dying for being altruistic for his friends, no this is not how this will end, is what points to exactly that for me.

[@aviaretubbs2340]

The only thing I have against the final is how in all the years the angels came into hell to kill demons, did no one decide "Hey, maybe we could fight back with our anglic weapons". Then when hell does fight back, we see the angels not only fly face first into a giant shield without thinking, but in the fight with Vaggie and Lute, we see that angels can literally get hurt with tables and rocks. So much for an invincible army.

[@ferntheinkling]

It's kinda what Carmilla was talking about. The angels expected themselves to be invincible so they weren't actually prepared for hell to fight back. I have a hard time believing they're *that* stupid but obviously they are. They're like freaking storm troopers fr 💀

[@aviaretubbs2340]

@@ferntheinkling Exactly! The only angel who was a threat in that fight was Adam himself 💀.

[@Luxord5294]

Carmilla points out that no one has been willing to try to fight back, because are you willing to throw down with something you've been told for years is an invincible murder-machine off of a hunch? I'm sure a lot of demons and Sinners pondered if Angelic Steel could hurt the Exorcists but no one was brave or stupid enough to try until Carmilla's daughters were in the line of fire and she felt she had to die to save them. Especially since the Exorcists come as an army, even if you kill one; there is another thousand there to slaughter you immediately for it. As for the rocks and tables showing them as not so invincible, again no one was willing to fight them; even if a Sinner caused some debris to fall on them, they're probably not gonna stick around and investigate the rubble and see if they did damage.

[@battlekidx2599]

For Alastor, I kind of saw his section of the reprise of Happy Day in Hell to imply that he really does care for the residents of the hotel more than he wants to admit even to himself. He is freaking out because he got too close to dying trying to protect and help people that he never thought he would care at all about and he’s doubling down on his plans from before. I saw his immediate desperation to be free to imply he is at the hotel because he is forced to be there, but he’s desperate to get out of the contract because he doesn’t like how it’s changing him. Alastor has always put himself first and here he is almost dying trying to protect this hotel and it's rattled him even more deeply than the blow to his pride. His pride is definitely at play here but like you said the show has too many moments where they play his fondness for the hotel and its inhabitants straight for there to be zero attachment there and I like the idea that it's this unexpected attachment that conflicts with his original goals and self-centered nature. That's just me. I could be wrong though. I'd like to hear what other people thought. Also I find it hilarious how you called Alastor fans out. I can accept a well-deserved shot at me.

[@goblinofsharksnacks]

Alastor Is an extreme psycho/sociopath, he displays every trait If he isn't in control he takes it at any opportunity (even through song ) He lost composure and said an impulsive 'fk you' to lucifer, a significant reaction for someone whos always calculated and calm, lucifer is one of the only threats to alastors control and position in the hotel, he has the potential to interfere with alastors current plans and wont be so easily manipulated Alastor has no need to feel threatened by lucifers actual power cause he has a charlie shield Alastor then inserted himself into the song +everything else for the rest of the day - an attempt at regaining some control back Husk mentioning alastor being on a leash, when alastor was already threatened, lead to another outburst, reminding husk whos in control very aggressively Then the shark fight - a bigger attempt to take back control with an over the top display and audience, which seemed to work He even made mimzy leave, she brought chaos to his place of control, making her a threat And obvs the final ep, his complete lack of control and near death just sent him off the rail unhinged He'll likely now do whatever it takes to regain his full power Other things obvs like the fake charm and manipulation he always uses

[@battlekidx2599]

@@goblinofsharksnacks I think you make some pretty good points and I definitely agree that his pride is a part of his breakdown in the finale! He can feel his control over the situation slipping. His power and notoriety has been challenged left and right this season. First Vox, then Lucifer, then the loan sharks, now Adam. It’s one right after the other. And Adam almost killed him. He’s struggling to grasp onto what little control he has left by forcing himself to keep on his smile and it calls back to the beginning of episode 7 when he says to Charlie that just because she sees a smile doesn't mean she knows how he really feels. His smile is a sign of control. And even in this moment you can see that last bit of control slipping. And it’s left him even more desperate for his freedom than before. The Radio Demon was introduced almost as if he was an all powerful entity and now he is being brought back down to earth and he’s raging against it, barely keeping it just below the surface. But like I said above I don't think that's all there is to his breakdown. I think there's multiple layers to it. Parts of his section of the song ("Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends.") and moments in the show itself (sending away Mimzy, telling Niffty that he is growing accustomed to the hotel residents and their bond in general, saying he wants to help guide Charlie, etc) imply that he does in fact care on some level. I would also like to note that sociopaths can form genuine connections. It's one of the key differences between sociopathy and psychopathy (I studied Psychology for a time. It's really interesting!). The way I read his desperation to free himself from his contract is that he is at the hotel because he is forced to be there, but he’s desperate to get out of the contract because he doesn’t like how it’s changing him. Alastor has always put himself first and here he is almost dying trying to protect this hotel and it's rattled him even more deeply than the blow to his pride. But I can definitely see the blow to his pride taking priority. Where being brought back down to earth and forced to see that he isn't at the top and in control has absolutely shaken him, making him more desperate for his freedom than ever before so he can secure some semblance of a foothold. His section of the song does imply that his contract is in some way holding him back. I think your take on the situation is interesting! It's always fun to hear other perspectives on certain scenes and characters.

[@goblinofsharksnacks]

@@battlekidx2599 i am hoping that it turns out he has some level of care for others, (why i put psych/sociopath) i can see it going either way though, or that emotion not being enough The hotel for a while was like a stable bubble, he had control there and wasn't much of a threat, but that was gradually invaded and broken down and is no longer enough I find it to be a really interesting sub plot But also the amount of power that hes hinted at having, if he gets that back he's gonna be one dangerous being, especially when unstable It makes me wonder if the rest of his power was sealed off for this reason He doesn't want to just be in charge of things, he wants to pull every string, control everything In ep 7 as soon as he hears Charlie is alone and vulnerable, he races there, beats her down verbally, then makes sure hes the only option she can turn to for help, he manipulated the situation and got his deal -in the cannibal town song he also talks about staying close to Charlie so he can attempt to control as her power grows In the last ep the way he sang about dying for his friends - as if its the most ridiculous thing he could imagine, makes me doubt his care will outweigh his need for control Oh another thing i noticed, he invites zestial to guess at the reason for his absence, and later invites carmilla to, but she responds nonchalantly, not caring at all, people like alastor also feed off of the impact they have on others, its part of control

[@battlekidx2599]

@@goblinofsharksnacks I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree because we clearly read Alastor's characters and scenes differently. For example, I read the line "Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends." like I explained above. Where his attachment is clashing with his goals and he was fighting in at least some capacity for them. And in cannibal town he says he believes in Charlie and wants to guide her. I read those as a sign of growing attachments because he specifically uses the word guide and he expresses belief in her (not her cause but Charlie herself), which implies more of a mentor role. We just don't interpret things the same and that's okay. I want to clarify that I think what you're saying could be a very interesting route for the show to take Alastor thematically. Alastor is the only character in the main cast that I think could effectively challenge Charlie’s idea of redemption by making her face the question of “where the line for who can be redeemed and who is too far gone is?” If Alastor goes full villain and doesn’t end up being “redeemed” Charlie will be forced to reckon with the fact that someone she has grown attached to is too caught up in his need for control and power to redeem himself. That he won’t be able to be brought back. Even Vaggie and her past as an exorcist couldn’t challenge Charlie’s ideals in the same way because Vaggie so clearly wants to be better and is trying to be better. At best, she could only challenge Charlie’s idea of who could be redeemed. She couldn’t truly challenge the line of when someone is too far gone, unlike Alastor. That route could be really interesting for Charlie as a character.

[@jiiamp]

Lucifer just messing with Adam was the funniest part for me

[@jagodadelega8130]

​@xana7617I don't thing he even said he did eve, he said neither of Adam's wives 'hated what he had to offer'. He banged Lilith alright, but I think the eve comment was about him offering her the apple

[@nekura]

@xana7617 he didn't mean that he "did" eve, he said eve didn't hate what he had to offer, meaning the apple he gave her

[@smcphee8499]

Surprise Adam didn’t tell Lucifer that is ex wife is in heaven with him now.

[@drawsfelix]

How did Vaggie not know angel weapons could hurt angels?????? She was literally hurt with one???😂😂😂

[@devanplays3509]

Probably trauma l

[@smcphee8499]

@@devanplays3509 or bad writing. Camilla said Vaggie fights like someone who isn’t afraid of harm.

[@imanithepinkmonster]

Kill not hurt😊

[@Lilliathi]

She thought angels could hurt angels and didn't know weapons had anything to do with it.

[@Sifya]

She thought only angels can hurt angels. But it is also possible camilla theory is incomplete. She melt the steel of heaven but she couldn't produce, so she doesn't really know how the steal works. For me there is 2 possibilities. 1)weapon always be created for killing angels too because for heaven rebellion. Yes I don't think Lucifer and lilith give only the apple 2)exorcists become to corrupt and so only power hurt them too. 3)both all

[@casualfanatic4217]

I felt the same with this finale as with TOH. The season is good but it could be amazing if the studio just gave them the time. Amazon will burn a billion dollars for Rings of Power but not a few million for anything that actually has potential

[@deondrex18k]

Sad but true

[@yarn2350]

Its the sad truth of corporate entertainment. They invest in things that have been proven to make money, ruin said things with shitty writing and incompetence, and not give actually original shows a chance coz in their eyes its too risky.

[@Cube-xm6vt]

For real. Just 4 more episodes would have made it ten times better. Still I do feel that the writers should have managed the time they had a little better, 8 episodes is little, but it's still 2:40 hours, plenty of time for a good story. Still pretty good show tho, even if I can't help but mourn what could have been.

[@madn9532]

Or even just a longer runtime per episode. I mean is there even a reason to limit animation to 22 minutes anymore? It's not like it's being broadcasted on TV and needs room for commercials.

[@TinkyWybx]

⁠@@madn9532Fr, they could've expanded the time for each episode if they were cutdown to 8 episodes for both seasons' 1 and 2 A great example of a longer runtime with limited episodes will be Arcane who had 9 episodes that lasted 40+ mins, that series managed to properly give their main characters enough screentime alongside development all up to the season's finale No, i'm not comparing Hazbin Hotel with Arcane, there's a HUGE difference between both series. They're both great in their own ways!

[@fionabuchanan7787]

I think the reason Lucifer was late to the battle is because in Episode 1 it was stated that the Hellborn are pardoned from the extermination. So Lucifer didn’t think to participate because technically this is all legal, but after Charlie got hurt which is against the rules he took a moment to get those shoulder thingies and then beat the crap out of Adam

[@mekalunia]

Thats right, also last time Lucifer never promised Charlie to help with the hotel, he only gave her the chance to go to heaven. He clearly didnt believe in her dream but later seeing Charlie in danger and also the sinners helping her to protect the hotel when they could have left Charlie alone, thats what inspired Lucifer to come and help.

[@TheBigE9999]

I think the Vees aren't referring to the overlords as a whole, but Alastor specifically. As far as they know, he screwed off, and even if he didn't, they could broadcast him getting his ass kicked. That means that all the souls that love listening to Alastor are going to start listening to the Vees, if nothing else than for availability of info

[@TheBeanPerson]

Yeah, I even thought the lyric was "Overlord(is) hanging by a thread" As in, "Alastor's pretty much dead".

[@axelostlund2348]

Agreed.

[@Jonathan_Collins]

Emily thoughts: "HELL ISN’T FOREVER! REDEMPTION IS REAL! YAY!!!" Sera thoughts: "… You mean… there really was a second option?! By the divine…those other souls…"

[@Ramsey276one]

Pentious: now ain't THAT a... You know what, we have a chance to do better, so let's do that, OKAY?

[@Featheryfaith7]

Why? Heaven is just as terrible as Hell. Just destroy heaven and God like from Grandia 2. There's no reason to be reedemed. LOL...

[@anti-fangirlfanclub4776]

@@Featheryfaith7 Are we watching the same show? Like we only saw heaven very briefly and it it seems to be WAY better for the residents. Just compare "Happy day in hell" to "Welcome to heaven"

[@camerondalton1495]

@@Featheryfaith7 Let's not get crazy. Hell still has murderers, rapists, and other terrible people.😅

[@genericname2747]

She killed so many people

[@Oliapfel]

the ace in the hole joke in ep 7 was the greatest thing

[@esteemedmortal5917]

Agreed!

[@Nier_altruist]

I didn't get that one

[@christopherlee7334]

​@@Nier_altruistAlastor is canonically asexual, or "Ace".

[@gagagegegigigogogugu]

@@christopherlee7334 It also vaguely sounds like asshole.

[@thomas_nutter]

greater than Charlies armpit hair, I agree

[@m0nsterVera]

That Vaggie getting Lute’s wings idea sounds so much better than we actually got. Vaggie earning her wings as the climax of the song in theory is cool, but she’s always been one to choose violence TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE SHE LOVES, especially Charlie. Now in her fight with Lute, when she chose to give Lute mercy, that could’ve been where she earned her wings. Lute just there stuck in between a rock and seeing Vaggie become the angel heaven deserves, while Lute is on the ground defenseless. Especially just Vaggie sparing Lute seems like it would be a good ending of her arc, just make her arc be that even if her intentions are good, to not use violence as often as she does. She believed murdering Sir Pentious was a good idea, she wanted to show the hotel on how the best way to gain trust was in battle. And maybe in the courtroom where Charlie was presenting her idea and Adam was trying to force her to out herself as an angel, she could’ve chose violence in that moment. Which then in turn could make this “Out for Love” song work. Carmilla only choses violence to protect her girls, and especially when necessary. Vaggie learns this, then uses it in the battle not only against the exorcists but also against Lute. Boom, gives Lute mercy, gains wings.

[@Shadow1Yaz]

The way I view Hazbin is like Owl House Season 3. It’s obvious they planed for mor episodes but then last min got told it got cut down to 8.

[@josselynarteaga7065]

But they know they have a second season

[@unholynoise3087]

​@@josselynarteaga7065 they might not get a season 3 so they gotta play it safe

[@toadlord8594]

Hopefully it doesn't end up like Molly Mcgee in having it's third season cancelled@@unholynoise3087

[@Shadow1Yaz]

@@josselynarteaga7065 it’s possible they had planned out season 1 with a length in mind and it got cut short leading them to need to condense things. It’s even probable that season 2 required the story to be were it’s at now so even if they knew there was a season 2 they still needed to rush season 1

[@haruhitomaeda4802]

​@@Zelnyair season 2 and season 1 were probably one in the same originally, since a season can sometimes be cut in two by the demand of the executives.

[@blitz3391]

Honestly i find Charlie and Lucifer shot in demon form the best of the season. But yeah, so many things rushed out; they didn't even acknowledge that one of Charlie's protector dies during the battle. Not a send off, not a tear, nothing. F for Dazzle.

[@esteemedmortal5917]

Got a little golden statue out front of the hotel, but I had to watch three times to catch it.

[@Nobody-es6td]

Thing that disturbs me the most in whole season is reveal that angels can be killed with angelic steel. Or to be more precise - that Vaggi, of all people didn't figured this out. If anyone should figure this out, it should be person whose eye was gouged out this exact way.

[@Phoenixillusion18]

Yeah she was one set away from death because of those angelic weapons and somehow she didn't add the pieces together.

[@babblgamgummi6029]

Yes. This was the one thing that really took me out of the story. Like, what do you mean you didn't know angels could be hurt, you lost your fucking eye and wings?!

[@artistanthony1007]

That's Viv's writing for you, never supposed to make sense.

[@magniwalterbutnotwaltermag1479]

​@@babblgamgummi6029she lost them fighting another angel, not demons. If I was a dnd paladin and another paladin tore off my arm with an ax I would be more afraid of the paladin than the ax.

[@babblgamgummi6029]

@@magniwalterbutnotwaltermag1479 That explanation makes sense! I really wish it had been said in the show, so the moment wouldn't have been so immersion breaking

[@andriygriffin4782]

One thing that didn’t click was Vaggie reclaiming her wings. It just sorta happens after a song. Wouldn’t it have been so much stronger during the battle? Have Vaggie fall from a great height only to sour. Do a Toy Story/Iron Giant “You can fly!”

[@Squirmychair]

Oooo yeah that would’ve been way cooler. Tbh Vaggie’s character moments got shafted

[@lunarrobot9714]

That would've been really neat. I feel like Veggies character moments are pretty rushed through when they could definitely have way more impact if they were timed a bit better.

[@lunarrobot9714]

@CipherRage-tp5ql Yeah, a lot of the times it feels like she's just kinda there. And she did stuff in the finale, but it was weird because she wasn't doing much before that. I wish we could've like... Seen her training on her own or whatever a few times. I just really was hoping for more from her.

[@EMIBwahahalalalallalahahahahha]

One note there is a power vacuum with cannibal town having suffered casualties, Alastor having lost his staff which might be important and Carmilla having spent a good portion of her angelic weapons

[@williamparker7025]

All the buildup to Charlies rage mode was a huge letdown

[@mx9226]

I felt good about it. It sets up season 2 well enough. I’m so happy that Sir Pentious managed to get into Heaven.

[@vania7302]

the second I saw Adam vanish Sir Pentious so anticlimatically I knew nah, he isn't dead, he'll show up in heaven. Was so glad for him, and Emily's and Sera's faces were priceless. Pacing issues aside, I quite enjoyed season 1 and look forward to the season 2

[@iceluvndiva21]

As someone who has taken college level classes in writing? My biggest gripe is the insistence on "telling but not showing translates to mystery & resolution". The 3 biggest offenders being: We are literally told information that screws with it's premise from the start. Aka the purpose of the exterminations is control, not overpopulation! Then it acts like they some how won in the end because they killed angels, exposed a flimsy premise ((THAT NO ONE KNOWS WHY SOMEONE GOES TO HELL OR HEAVEN!)), and didn't die. We're told Charlie has daddy issues but we ONLY get the tail end of it. We never actually see what caused the problem. We get the reveal of Vaggie being an angel BY HAVING CHARLIE FINDING A FRESHLY MAIMED VAGGIE whose blood is gold like her heavenly cohorts. so the so called "betrayal and lies" MAKES NO F**KING SENSE! No. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[@yetekt6953]

The exterminations being for control makes no sense when everything shown says that Heaven would have no problem destroying Hell.

[@armanroyai6601]

Sorry I have a couple of critiques. One- Heaven doing this so that hell would never rise up and the issue of overpopulation are NOT mutually exclusive. It’s very likely that heaven culls them and says that overpopulation would lead to rioting and whatnot 2- I agree with your point abt Charlie’s daddy issues, lot of tell no show 3- it’s shown in the show that Vaggie is not bleeding by the time Charlie gets to her if I remember correctly so she would never see the blood. Also it’s doubtful that she’s ever seen any angel’s blood anyways since she believed they couldn’t be harmed anyways.

[@BwooHuraca]

On the issue of #2 I think that's just going to require more patience. We see Lilith making small appearances. One when she comes to get lil' Charlie and takes her away from her dad, one where Lucifer looks sadly at the portrait, and another for a cliffhanger. Her dad issues are likely connected with whatever happened with her mom.

[@Autism74]

you know i got a great idea, lets have viv hiring you to write season 2, I think you will make the show better

[@artistanthony1007]

​@yetekt6953 Also there's nobody even trying to rebel against Heavan, no Sinner in HB are even doing anything to get there or prepare and it's supposed to be the same universe.

[@ZetatheSixth]

It's like an R-rated Star vs The Forces of Evil, except they cut all the filler, without realizing that all that "filler" was full of important character development and world-building.

[@caravan-mad]

SO ITS NOT JUST ME I LITERALLY CALLED IT "SFTVOE: THE OVER CORRECTION" IN MY REVIEW TO MY FRIEND LAST NIGHT LMAO

[@lop90ful1]

So correct Lmao

[@noobmasterruben5167]

Yeah, I feel like A24 being new to animated shows and thats why it only had like 20 mins of runtime. Either that or I wouldnt mind if Hazbin looked a little stiff on the animation side to stretch out the runtime like what Invincible did

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

@@caravan-madI think some people in the comment section know the answer

[@AbimaelLopez-hz3qq]

Some people in the comment section know the answer carmilla said don’t do it for revenge

[@tylerrusnak7736]

A note on Alistor, he's inspired by the Cheshire cat, who is a chaotic neutral character. So him not "picking a lane" is a intentional aspect. I agree with your criticisms, more episodes would have been nice, but with what we got I loved it! I haven't been this hyped for a show in the last 20 years! Literally since I was a kid! I'm so excited for season 2! But right now, legit happy with what we got.

[@AngelsonEarth69]

In the livestream a few days ago, Vivzie described Alastor as a chaotic neutral character. I don't think he's evil.

[@sayuriartsy5108]

It's weird that Vaggie, nor Adam and Lute knew that Angelic weapons could hurt angels, considering that Lute used them to cut Vaggie's eye and wings out. Like SOOOO weird. UNFATHOMABLY weird.

[@Supershadow301]

On the one hand, it can be excused by saying "well, fallen angels aren't angels anymore, so they can get hurt". But on the other hand, the show implies the opposite, what with Vaggie getting maimed while she was an angel then later regrowing wings

[@Okami82]

I kinda agree abt Vaggi's song problem, Vaggie was always fighting for love and when Carmilla said that I was like "yea, that's already what she does?" I think it might've worked better if the song was about Vaggie accepting herself and fighting to protect herself as well (since even tho it's not that much Vaggi's writing always struck me as if she was selfless since her priority is never herself)

[@angelfox8]

Seriously I literally said No F&cking Sh!t when the song started because that's like all Vaggie character has been about the entire run time of this show

[@smcphee8499]

Agree but that song wouldn’t work for Camilla. Because the only similarities her and Vaggie have is that fight to protect others.

[@smcphee8499]

@CipherRage-tp5ql it kinda worse because Chaggie is such boring ship. Vaggie has such an interesting backstory but do nothing with her! Like Camilla saying she fights like someone who has not been harmed is a lie. Vaggie was literally injured but by an angelic weapon?! If she didn’t know that angels could be killed that’s alright …. kinda dumb though. But to not know that an angelic weapon can hurt and angel?! Wtf?!

[@Okami82]

@@smcphee8499 yea but as Camilla said, V's problem is that she doesn't protect herself, while Camilla makes sure she also doesn't die, so they could've made it fit somehow (the song's still a blast tho)

[@Valorian6167]

I can see Vaggi having a similar arch to Pearl from Steven Universe later on. The set up us there now, but it's not a flaw right now, maybe it will be a flaw later down the line

[@aokhoinguyenang3992]

This is just what I have heard: Sir Pentious was originally a one off character. My guess is that Angel Dust redemption & ascending to Heaven was supposed to be the focus of season 1 because season 1 was shorter than Vizzie expected so she replaced him with Pentious(a simpler character) as the 1st success because Angel need much more time to deal with all his drama

[@darkbribe777]

Makes a lot of sense. Also a good call by viv. This gives sir pentious a more meaningful part of the story and gives Angel the proper episodes thats required to pace his drama and redemtion. We all know Angel is the final boss of emotional trauma.

[@11th-lemon]

I feel like the story is already treating Angel as redeemed. The only reason he isn't in heaven right now is that he didn't happen to die in battle.

[@aokhoinguyenang3992]

@@11th-lemon Not really, he's at the beginning of his journey. There are still plenty you can do with him: his addiction, his contract with Val, his friendship with Cherry, relationship with Husk, his mafia family,...

[@11th-lemon]

@@aokhoinguyenang3992 I didn't mean to say that he can't get development. Of course the writers can do stuff with him. I just doubt those things will be redemption-based because there's nothing left to atone for.

[@aokhoinguyenang3992]

@@11th-lemon Pretty sure how he ended up in Hell have to do with his addiction. So fixing it is the key part of his redemption. Also since he sold his soul to Val, it's unlikely he can even leave Hell until that's dealt with

[@patrickcarter2829]

With season 1 concluded, from a writing standpoint, I think each episode should've been character-focused while leading up to a connected finale: * Episode 1 - Charlie, introduces her character and the hotel, ends with her meeting with Adam and the angel's corpse. * Episode 2 - Alastor; pretty much the same as it was: his one-sided rivalry with Vox, the Overlord meeting. End it with Sir Pentious joining the hotel. * Episode 3 - Vaggie, show her lack of faith in the hotel guests, end it with her coming to sympathize with them (especially Sir Pentious, maybe a backstory on why he's in hell). * Episode 4 - Angel Dust, same as his centric episode. * Episode 5 - Husker, similar events to Lucifer visiting the hotel, get his thoughts on redemption as well as some words of advice for Charlie meeting with heaven. * Episode 6 (pretty much the meeting with heaven, more Emily, Charlie, and Vaggie moments) * Episode 7 & 8 (works out like in the series). Personally, I'm kinda off-put by how irrelevant Nifty as a character is: no real personality or background info, no real character interaction outside of one moment in Episode 5. I kinda like her Pilot personality more (a more underlying murderess than an explicit one).

[@ladyamaranth111]

I think the consistency between Alastor telling Charlie to not assume you know what is under a smile, then him continuously smiling but his expression almost panicked as he talks about the constraints of his deal is a nice touch. It shows that Alastor's façade is very much something he does to act like he is in control. Giving him also a funny parallel with Angel Dust in episode 4 - as Angel puts on the sexy act to feel in control as well. Also I don't know how I feel about him being outright evil later, I am very torn about it. Part of me would love the "teetering" we see from be literal and on purpose - he is teetering too. Like yeah his intentions are far from nice, but he is genuinely enjoying himself much to his own surprise, and he's new longing for freedom is coming FROM his newfound desire for the same connection the others have. But old habits die hard, and so he keeps going with his initial plan to screw everyone over until he can't. But not only is that probably WAY more nuanced than can be expected with this kind of pacing, but the other part of me wants them to actually pull the trigger and make him evil. Regardless, I am a simp and I need more of him.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

I recognize that I could be totally off base here, but my current prediction on Alastor is a double uno reverse heel-turn face-turn. The show is all about redemption and second chances, so I can buy that Alastor is solely with the gang as a means to an end to break whatever contract he signed and bid for power when he's free and can wash his hands of the whole affair, but I also think there's a possibility that something Charlie does or the facts of the Heaven/Hell dichotomy, such as Pentious going to Heaven, could change his mind and his heart after being a season villain for awhile, and knowing how Charlie is all about forgiveness, I could see a situation where Alastor goes on a bit of a bastard tear, but afterwards comes back genuinely remorseful and ready and willing and eager to help Charlie and the hotel for real, putting him firmly on the good guys side and back in the circle of the principle cast.

[@ladyamaranth111]

@gregvs.theworld451 I could 100% see that happening, I just wonder if they will have the time to make that work if the second season will also be 8, 20 min-ish episodes. That's a lot of character development and fleshing that to have that happen and have it make sense. But hey, you wont see me complaining as it would probably mean a lot of focus on Alastor in general.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@ladyamaranth111 Yeah, well, knock on wood I'm hoping we'll hear news of a season 3 renewal sooner rather than later, otherwise yeah I'm worried about S2 being tight and crunchy too. :\

[@Toseuteuu]

I loved that Lucifer had a keyblade rebuilding the hotel. My nerdy kingdom hearts self melted lol

[@emred4653]

Having 10-15 episodes would help a ton to this show.

[@jordandavilabrown294]

Like I said before I never had high expectations for Hazbin Hotel and that would just sit back and relax and see what Viviepop has to offer, and now that season 1 has wrapped up I can say that despite the obvious flaws it has its still an enjoyable show to watch.

[@DANBAN119]

Yeah, it definitely feels like it was injured not really by the writing, but by the length and number of episodes. Which is more a misstep by Amazon and the showrunners than by vivzie and other writers. Hoping that She can appeal to them to get more episodes for season 2, since besides the show being less than perfect, it still has been a big hit on prime.

[@toadlord8594]

Yeah Nifty putting the Finishing Blow to Adam was kinda predictable when Charlie gave her the Knife and her whole "80% Harmless" but was Still SATISFYING!!

[@wilberwhateley7569]

And the fact that it happened right in the middle of a defiant speech - priceless!

[@dustinjoosen5901]

I mean, I didn't see it coming

[@kkreynolds4569]

I actually didn’t find it predictable but it was nice 😭

[@toadlord8594]

@@wilberwhateley7569 Yeah, but personally kinda dissatisfied that he’s gone so quickly since he’s second to Alastor being the most entertaining character in the show, along with having questions about how he got into heaven and his dynamic with Lute made for a dynamic fun Villain Duo. I’m just hoping that the writers let Lute Cook in having a character arc, more so a Girlboss corruption/Revenge arc in Season 2 since after she genuinely cared about Adam more than colleagues so who knows maybe we’ll get more from her in future seasons.

[@acrazysheepdog1555]

I think Pentious should’ve died actually getting the shot off, but Adam basically shrugs it off or takes a little bit of damage, maybe even losing a piece of his mask from Pentious rather than Lucifer being a dues ex machine, and him one shooting the zeppelin afterwards would’ve really made him feel powerful and it would’ve made Pentious’ death feel a lot more impactful. Like I would’ve gotten that “oh shit” moment that I got when Omni-man tanked the hammer strike twice and destroys it anyway. Disappointing, but I’m still cautiously optimistic for the future.

[@exa.-210]

Yeah it should've been like that Infinity War moment, "all that work for a drop of blood?" Then have him quickly recover and blast him.

[@_NIKOS9_NIKOS]

I think what the Vees are talking about is that some of the overlords are weaker: 1: They assume that Alastor will go missing for another 7 years and even if he doesnt they have footage of him getting his ass handed to him (to a man killed by a janitor no less) and running. This is bound to mess his reputation 2: Rosie lost a significant number of her people and since overlord gain power by the number of people they have under them doesnt board well for her. 3: Carmilla sold/gave away all of her weapons, which leaves her and whoever was depending on her in a very inconvenient situation. Meanwhile Vox has just started developing anti angelic weapons of his own.

[@christopherjones5700]

These are important points, It was obvious the Vs are a hostile faction to anyone that is too weak to defend themselves, and it was never as simple as Carmilla refusing to participate because she think's shed lose to the angels, but rather she had nothing to gain from stopping the extermination. In fact it is the opposite, she is galvanized by Vaggie's love for Charlie by being reminded of her own love for her family, so it's not like the song is bad because it implies that Vaggie wasn't fighting with the correct goals, but rather it was a test of whether or not Vaggie was brave enough to go toe to toe with an overlord who threatened to kill her. I think a lot of the critiques on the story people are saying are extremely nitpicky.

[@Valorian6167]

I don't think Rosie will be at a loss because she stated that she doesn't control the cannibals

[@Valorian6167]

Is anyone else curious about how Vox was getting the footage thiugh? I mean, it's not like it was on the news, so how was it being filmed?

[@XenoVT]

@@Valorian6167his vouyer spy cameras, theres an ad for them in episode 2 that introduces Vox, and he even uses one at the hotel in that episode after finding out Alastor is back.

[@ARandomEliatrope]

An easy way to fix Sir Pentious' death is have adam point and blast, then it cuts to slow zoom in of Pentious' shocked expression, the light of the blast visible in his eyes as the screen is ingulfed in white and his entire ship is then gone

[@k1productions87]

I would take out the shocked expression though. Don't have him feel like he made a mistake he regrets, but rather have him steadfast in his conviction up to the very end, thus solidifying his redemption. Also, have the death ray fire, only to be blocked by Adam's blast - give a couple seconds of sustained blockage until the ray finally ends, and Adam's blast slow-motion-engulfs Pentious' ship, and show him accepting his fact with the eyes closing trope. Perhaps save his "Remember me!" for this moment, rather than when he runs off, but either would work. Regardless, definitely more time in the confrontation, but no shock or regret in doing so.

[@TikaaniSpirit]

glad i wasnt the only one that was like "what are you talking about?" with the "Out for Love" scene and Vox and Val part in the finale song. The show has only shown Vaggie doing stuff cause she loves Charlie. And i have no idea where Vox and Val were talking about since literally no overlord except Alastor was in that fight and like you said Lucifer looks like he's gonna be more involved in the future. The show has been having a major disconnect with what they say vs. what they show. I think they're depending too much on a guess that most viewer are people who've followed the lore since the pilot day and listened to all the podcasts.

[@KarmesinYanto]

So disappointed with Sir Pentious' death. Dude, when I saw he was going to literally fucking die, I was hyping up that moment so much (in a sad way), but when I saw that they chose to take the comical route with his death, all of the mourning literally felt SO empty. But y'know, him getting to heaven was a nice touch. I hope we get to actually see him in heaven sometime in season 2.

[@Supershadow301]

They definitely should've cut down the mourning in the middle of the fight. Charlie being devastated makes sense, but everyone stopping to watch is a bit much. Maybe Vaggie could've reassured her, telling her that this kind of things happen and they have to keep fighting so his death wasn't in vain. Then when the fight is over they can have a mourning moment.

[@wavy_soup]

If we're being honest, all of the problems that happened could've been resolved if they had more time to build the plot properly. I mean, for 8 episodes of 20 minutes to make everything that was planned? They did a fairly good job, but it still makes you wonder what it could've been And giving the fact that hazbin hotel went really well on amazon prime, I hope the time issue gets resolved by the next season. The show really deserves more episodes

[@daridon2483]

Would really love if amazon gives* more runtime to season 2, so the story can finally flesh out the hotel itself (since season 1 ended with Charlie and her hotel finally getting the respect they deserve, so it's now an established location)

[@toadlord8594]

This is The Owl House Season 3 all over again!

[@kaih_the_viewer]

Yeah Amazon really screwed them over with this one. Still happy we even got it to begin with and I love the finale but I won't lie to say that we shoudlv'e had more time

[@jessicaberry5596]

Not every problem, but most, I can see that. Vaggie not knowing angel weapons hurt angels, when she is literally a victim of it, doesn't require more time, it requires smarter writing.

[@ollehkacb]

Cam shill out millions for a crap season of lord of the rings but can't give a show a good number of episodes.

[@rrg.r2456]

I wish Alastor showed more of his power with his fight against Adam, not really hurting him, but being an annoying menace before going down.

[@cloudykid7278]

10:37 Vox screaming "This is better than sex!" gets me everytime 🤣🤣🤣

[@V_MC]

If i had a nickel for everytime the word "love" was repeated in the chorus of a song, sung by someone who's fighting, i'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happend twice!

[@roopbert8739]

Steven universe?

[@Valorian6167]

​@roopbert8739 this has happened so many times. Bro would be absolutely rich by now

[@t.dmattocks6119]

What? That's an extremely common trope and not weird at all.

[@plebstrike8240]

To try and chalk it down with the show's main selling point and subsequent flaw. They set up amazing stories, moments and build great potential for story arcs. Then don't give enough time to them. They don't make it feel disappointing, or reach unsatisfactory endpoints, but rather they skip out on too much of the journey in which they got there. (Now a bit longer rant) I want to know how Angel really started getting over his drug addiction. Might have to do with his sister being in heaven, his showing of secretly believing in the Hotel and clear fact that he is at the core, a much nicer person that is actively trying to self-destruct to get out of an abusive situation. I wanted to know more of how genuine Alastor's liking of the Hotel is actually getting. The whole bit with Lucifer, directly contesting his narcisism and him thus unravelling into this whole spiel of manipulating Charlie which has been suggested at since the Pilot. Then it cuts into him, as you say showing inconsistencies which become more infuriating than mysterious, because him starting to pick a lane would have increased the vibes he is already and is meant to be showing. (him being an enigma.) I do agree that they could have let Charlie have something more of a W, and whilst they clearly showed she has more power than Adam, I doubt it would have been very logical for her to win a fight against him being that inexperienced, hesitant to fight (Clearly holding back in the initial fight, compared to protecting her dad) and overcome by emotions. Lucifer's subsequent arrival being the one point of the video I so far can disagree with quite heavily, whilst not explicity told or confirmed, I do believe it can make a lot of sense (and is eluded to) given the context to the deal struck. No hellborn sinners were targetted, and as soon as they were, (Dazzle and Charlie not long thereafter) Lucifer was on the scene making a fool out of Adam. It was also a shown to be quite the unfathomable thought that Charlie would even be attacked. The sheer disbelief that Adam dared attack her, clearly enraged Lucifer. As too was Adam in disbelief over the fact that Charlie was ready to fight him to defend the Hotel. There are more characters to, but I feel its mostly things that can be chalked down to yet incomplete story arcs. Save for Vaggie, who I agree with you to a 100%

[@TonyBro505]

This comment. Exactly my thoughts.

[@citrinethecorgi]

it is kinda funny how she feels first draft, yet she is the character who has gone through the most changes out of every character.

[@ribottostudio]

Adam vs Alastor was incredible, and you have to respect the Radio Demon for holding his own against the first man, when he's just an Overlord. People tend to overhype his power level, and while I do think his deal confines his powers, I don't think even at full strength, he'd be able to beat Adam. Also the line "You lack discipline, control and worse? You're sloooppy" was such a good nod to Puss in Boots the Last Wish "Slow, sloppy, sssad." The animation in the finale and previous episode was amazing too. Carmilla out here having one of the best songs in the show. Out For Love is criminally short. I think overall, the show IS fast paced, but really enjoyable. There is not ONE single song that's a dud. That's rare in a musical. In terms of not knowing what Alastor's deal is...I think that's on purpose. They aren't picking a lane with him because they're indecisive, but because they want us guessing. I mean...he outright threatened Husk over something Husker ended up being RIGHT about. Tells me that although Alastor IS a gentleman, and seems to have this moral code about him, the fact that we STILL don't know that much about him I think is honestly a good thing. It keeps up the hype and mystery around his character for season 2. This man was a serial killer and is a cannibal, he's evil no doubt about it. But he's also multifaceted, and that's why he's such a fan favorite. People love complex or mysterious characters.

[@DrakMothTheGamer]

I am hoping that Alastors deal is holding him back. I agree that he probably wouldn't have beat Adam but i think he def should have but up way more of a fight not take one good hit and dip out. But that also just maybe my head canon but i feel like he def would have foought more.

[@strawberryhellcat4738]

Would be interesting if Alastor's solution to breaking his chains was to use Charlie's favor to pull a "Jafar Plan B". As Prince of Hell, Alastor would have access both to immense power and a father-in-law who would be reluctantly incentivized to nullify the contract with whoever holds the leash. Plus, since this would be a purely political arrangement for power, Alastor would encourage Charlie to keep her loving relationship with Vaggie.

[@ribottostudio]

@@strawberryhellcat4738 Makes so much sense that he would go for this type of play; he says "Great Alastor Altruist died for his friends. Sorry but that's NOT how this story will end." or somethin like that. He's gearing up for something BIG. And he's gonna be the baddie.

[@kojoattah3987]

That’s nice and all but getting one shot is getting one shot It was pretty cool while it lasted tho

[@strawberryhellcat4738]

Yes, I don't see Alastor being redeemed. He has more of the "Better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven" personality, and if Alastor had the power to make Hell more intolerable, more sinners would want to leave it. "If you keep making this place so awful, nobody will want to be here! Ohhh....."@@ribottostudio

[@gh0stwr1t3]

16:20 up to this point I was thinking “hah, it’s pretty interesting in a bad way that vivzie said Hazbin would be women led and then all the guys undercut the women’s moments” and then died seeing the tweet scroll up

[@chloeprice4125]

15:53 Maybe a pile of Lucifer's ducks fall on him and he was stuck until that moment where he remember that he could teloport to escape the ducks pile. Or Lucifer was having a depressed month, because, you know, he has depression, and he didnt have energy to get out of bed...where his ducks are in a pile of comfort.

[@Shonen88_Champion]

vivziepop is that you ? 😂😂😂

[@amaristhewitchfromthewoods]

"Out for love" gives me "do it for her/him" vibe

[@murderman7265]

Pearl was a demon all along guys.

[@shirendjorgee9320]

Yes! It was giving Pearl and Connie energy!

[@kkreynolds4569]

YESSSS

[@angelfox8]

I really thought Vaggie's arc was going to don't just do it for her do it for yourself as well but no apparently they thought she wasn't "doing it for her" enough

[@smcphee8499]

Except do it him/her was shown to be wrong.

[@Kid.Coffin]

i appreciate that I'm not the only one to think pretentious death was just so dumb. it wasn't nearly as impactful as it should have been and was frustrating.

[@moonzie37]

I heard it's because Viv only made pentious in order to mock her ex-friend whom she hated because of their appearance and interests, idk how true this is tho

[@hellfooliver1497]

@@moonzie37 not gonna say its false because i know nothing about this and don't really care about her as a person, but it sounds a lot like something someone would say to make her look evil.

[@moonzie37]

@hellfooliver1497 I recently saw someone make a post on tumblr and this was mentioned, but idk.

[@khaens1116]

I have a feeling one episode of S2 will be all about Charlie learning to use her powers and maybe discovering her Angelic powers or setting the wheels for a later reveal. So far we only saw her showing her demonic form from anger, uncontrolled, and with the final battle that form was put heavily into focus, including stopping Adam dead in his track, which might be the hint to her Angelic side too

[@pastorcodymitchell1456]

THANK YOU Charlie’s whiplash with Alastor really floored me

[@talkingcowthatwasthereallalong]

Expecting Charlie to have her "Stolas moment" and go all out demon, if they had to keep her non violent, they could've shown her tanking Adam's beam unharmed. But I guess they didn't want to serve ALL the cake on season 1.

[@williamparker7025]

they could have had her go full demon but just be clumsy/incompetent and that would have been better and more true to pilot charlie imo. Imagine if her own magic was what split the hotel trying to hit Adam

[@talkingcowthatwasthereallalong]

That could enable the "she has the power to obliterate you, she just chooses peace because she believes in her philosophy" aspect to her arc, so every second chance she gives is a choice, both from her and from the soul that sought redemption Or something like that, idk, I'm not a writer

[@Sifya]

i think she cannot control her power jet, in panticolar angelic ones she needs time

[@LacieAnimations]

Only problems I had with the show was how crammed it all felt, and that some stuff was just super.. random. But everything else *to me* was really good. Can’t wait for season two ✊

[@YoungOneJim]

Show needed 40 minute episodes or 12 episodes, I had the same feeling that a lot of the moments didn't feal earned and the plot felt rushed. I absolutely freaking loved the show and have been listening to the music on repeat, but its flawed

[@winteriris13]

i cant believe angels have never accidentally cut themselves with thier weapons (with training or accidents) and said "this weapon could be dangerous in the wrong hands, i should not leave them lying around in hell"

[@hellfooliver1497]

Honestly what bothers me the most is vaggie having her eye and wings ripped with those weapons and not thinking about it for a second.

[@Thiago-ic4wf]

Vaggie not knowing that angels could be harmed, while her flashback clearly showing her losing an eye, and her wings is also quite the plothole Edit: to those saying that they meant Angels couldn't be harmed by Demons, doesn't excuse the fact that she had her eye stabbed out by an angel weapon, while she's an angel herself, and still not know that angels couldn't be harmed.

[@Calendator]

Also the implication that in all of eternity literally no one ever accidentally nicked themselves with a weapon

[@Mediados]

Come on, do they need to spell out everything? They mean harmed by demons, which was believed to be impossible.

[@iceluvndiva21]

EXACTLY WHY I WAS PISSED WITH IT

[@welcometothericefields7783]

And don't forget lute sword probably make from angel steal same quality at adam her sword colours very different.

[@ellaartenstein853]

She didn’t know they could be harmed by demons

[@iancrisp9027]

The Angels were complete pushovers. We should have seen the cannibals being slaughtered by them at least a couple times

[@XxN00BxXgg3]

didnt you get it? its because the angels never expected anyone to fight back, forming a fighting style that doesnt fear death but when actually confronted with death, thats when they start to fall apart

[@iancrisp9027]

@@XxN00BxXgg3 no I didn't miss that part, but there was no tension whatsoever throughout the entire fight. It was just Angels being slaughtered constantly and they even had to have Adam make a joke about it to hang a lantern on it it just took all the tension out of the scene. I was almost completely sure everyone was going to walk out of this thing piece of cake. But Carmela even knowing the secret about angels was only able to take out one out of five meaning they're still a viable threat. This entire season has been leading up to this devastating attack that was going to wipe them all out, and then we get into the fight and it's a cakewalk besides Adam

[@XxN00BxXgg3]

true, showing more of the angels actually killing some cannibals would have increased tension@@iancrisp9027

[@highlordfragbag7912]

The thing is though they dont know how to fight. They’ve never had a challenge.

[@iancrisp9027]

@@highlordfragbag7912 no they know how to fight they just don't know how to fight defensively. If they didn't know how to fight they want to be a threat at all. The whole point was that they don't think they can be harmed they don't take any defensive measures. They still have speed, elevation and numbers on their side. There should be at least some tension

[@lenikohl3881]

I completely agree with you about vaggie. And I also just hate how sir Pentious died. I don't mean I hate that he died, just how. Its sad that his death was a joke and his "sacrifice" didn't do anything. He should have at least hurt Adam a bit before he got killed and not just immediately wiped out of existence. the dramatic build up to it and then the big reaction after it doesn't make sense. Also charlie should have also gotten a badass moment and i also think what we saw wasn't really her "final form". or at least I hope so because as the literal daughter of lucifer i think some horns and a tail is not enough for the final most powerfull form

[@Oddity._..]

One thing I liked was Lute’s and Adam’s relationship. Wether it was friends or just rlly in sync coworkers, I liked it a lot. I just think it’s fun