Did Marvel Steal Spider-Man's Costume?

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thanks for watching! I recently saw Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, and released a short video on why I believe it's one of the best Spider-Man stories ever told (no spoilers). Go check it out, I'd love to hear your thoughts! kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKSpoqigjMZ_m6c

[@TheHarmmm]

Where are you from? Somethings you say sound Liverpudlian.

[@HiTopFilms]

Great Video! I was completely unaware of the Halloween costume, or the story behind it. I knew that Kirby had claimed he designed the original costume and character, but this whole "who really created the costume" dilemma is so intriguing.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thanks man! Honestly there's so many interesting facets to this story. We'll never know for sure what happened, but it's interesting to think about.

[@dabilboblakkins732]

Nerd

[@Cervando]

How did you not mention DC's Golden Age Tarantula from 1941? Or Eagle's Spider Queen from slightly earlier in the same year? The latter wore bracelets that fired webbing to trap villains, almost identical to Spider-Man. Tarantula clung to walls and ceilings, also fired webs to trap villains and even to swing from. He was even called Spiderman by the media in his comics. In fact Kirby's rejected Spider-Man costume was almost exactly the same as Tarantula's costume, even down to the web gun, except he added a cloak.

[@Cervando]

@@jadenbryant9283 It's hilarious when Marvel fanbois try to deny the obvious. Of course Marvel made some changes to avoid being sued again, like copying Billy Batson's, aka Captain Marvel, concept of a teenage hero, but the fact remains Tarantula was extremely similar to the later Spider-Man.

[@Cervando]

@@jadenbryant9283 That make no sense at all. It makes no difference that later versions of Tarantula were dissimilar to Spider-Man. What matters is that Spider-Man copied a lot from the original version, including the vast majority of his abilities and even his name.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@Cervando yeah I guess you make good points but is tarantula even a good character

[@Cervando]

@@jadenbryant9283 I much prefer Spider-Man, but that does not refute my points. Captain Marvel was outselling Superman when DC sued Fawcett for copying. Captain America was more popular than The Shield when MLJ sued Marvel for copying. I suspect the only reason DC did not sue Marvel was because Tarantula hadn't been featured in many years until he reappeared in the All Star Squadron where he wore his later brown and black uniform and was even seen in a crossover fighting alongside Spider-Man.

[@jadenbryant9283]

@@Cervando well you do have good point there

[@FancyGeeks]

I came from NerdSync. I had totally never been here before.

[@OwenLikesComics]

who are you?

[@FancyGeeks]

My name is Auram.

[@sneggleblech]

@@FancyGeeks 😂😂😂

[@FrigginBoomToys]

Very well researched. I think honestly these guys were cranking out so many hundred of ideas and characters that even they can't remember who originally did what and who changed what

[@MrYTGuy1]

His response says a lot. Sounds more like an answer that a lawyer would give rather than someone trying to clear something up.

[@OwenLikesComics]

That's very true

[@HarryOsborneAS31]

Not necessarily. If you know about Steve Ditko's personality and way of thinking, it's just Steve Ditko being Steve Ditko.

[@johnrutherford6877]

Chris Sousa, yes, his response fits in well with how people described him throughout his life.

[@NadDew]

It's sounds like someone doesn't want to argue I'll do the same

[@shawnarthur5921]

I think part of the problem is that the story of Jack Kirby being trashed by Marvel is so well documented, that it was very easy for Kirby to say "I did that" and people take it as gospel. I love Kirby's work, but I believe it's possible that he became so bitter that he would willingly take credit for things he was, at best, tangentially a part of.

[@DrFranklynAnderson]

Not that it means much given his notoriously faulty memory, but the one time I got to see Stan Lee at a con I asked who designed the Spider-Man costume and he answered Ditko without hesitation.

[@JaiProdz]

That line up of the old Spider Man costumes are really creepy! Great video and insight, had no idea abt this! It's interesting bc there is a lot of uncredited work creatives do, and are often silenced and not notable enough to speak out, it's sad.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Yeah, it's a crazy coincidence (at least!). Glad to hear you enjoyed the video.

[@darklordbob1868]

Don't forget Jack Kirby drew the first ever Spiderman for Amazing Fantasy #15 Aug. 1962 So there you have it Mystery Solved!!!

[@AceLM92]

That 1954 costume almost looks like an early design for Shocker because of the yellow. I wonder if that was intentional

[@afromiscreantii9522]

Here from NerdSync as well. Good collaboration! 😊

[@OwenLikesComics]

Welcome, thank you very much!

[@LithiumProductions]

No, it's not a good collaboration. This video is much better. I watched NerdSync's video first and it does absolutely nothing to add to this video's information. And simply mentioning each other's videos does not qualify it as a collaboration.

[@outpostalpha]

This is fascinating stuff! Keeping in mind that I know nothing about copyright litigation in the 1960's, I feel like the fact that the company that Ditko and Lee supposedly ripped off for the Spider-Man costume design never tried to call Marvel to task for it, and in fact then readily agreed to produce a Spider-Man costume for them, is rather telling. If it was such a blatant rip-off, wouldn't there be bad blood between Marvel and Ben Cooper, rather than a resulting partnership? And if Ditko *was* influenced by the 50's Cooper costume, but Ben Cooper apparently didn't mind, does it even matter? Is there even any controversy? However it came about, I'm super glad we got the iconic, enduring costume that the Webhead still wears today. Thanks for another great video, Owen!

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thanks! I think (if we go with the assertion that Ditko may have inadvertently copied the Ben Cooper suit) it is interesting to note that Marvel's first ever licensing deal was with Ben Cooper to produce Spider-Man Halloween costumes (at a point where Spidey wasn't *that* popular yet). If we go with that assertion, then maybe Ben Cooper thought it'd be more profitable to play ball and use it as leverage to obtain the licensing rights? For the record, I don't fully believe that Ditko and Lee ripped off the Ben Cooper suit in any way, but it's fascinating to think!

[@outpostalpha]

Ah, hadn't considered that angle. "Let us produce the Spider-Man costume, and we won't make a stink about you ripping off our design." Man, I can see how people get so sucked into these kinds of conspiracy theories. Whether it's true or not, the speculation is super interesting.

[@ElOctopodo]

I find one flaw with this video, and a crucial one that could make sense of it all. Stan Lee never came up with a spider-themed superhero, he only came up with a teenage-theme superhero. Lee at least once stated that he completely invented the official story of him coming up with the Spider-Man name due to him not being able to remember how he got it in the first place. It is my belief that he got it from Kirby, based on what he later stated. Stan tasked him with creating a teenage superhero, he created Spiderman based on his previous involvement with The Fly. The assignment was given to Ditko to finish the comic, just as it had been done in the past with characters like Iron Man, and when he noticed the similarities, he outright was granted permission to change the story and costume to make it stand on its own. So there ya go. Lee came up with Peter Parker, Kirby came up with Spider-Man and Ditko unified the two and made them his. That's how I'd explain it.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Your theory is certainly plausible; Lee was always quite tongue-in-cheek about his memory being sketchy at best, and it's evident from the similarities between Spidey and his Silver-Spider work that Kirby played a bigger role than he was credited, and I wouldn't be too shocked if it played out like you theorised. That said, when making a video I have to consult historical sources and hard evidence, so even if I believed that, I want to present the evidence we actually have, and let you connect the dots and speculate (if that makes sense?)

[@ElOctopodo]

@@OwenLikesComics It does! Thanks for the reply. I bet it's a pain to present hard facts on this, seeing Stan Lee always ended his thoughts with "or maybe not, I don't remember" haha

[@PopCross]

Oh man! You're almost at 10k subs! Congrats man! You deserve way more than even that. Your vids are great!

[@Nexturz]

I do believe that the suit may have been inspired by the Halloween costume however I doubt they took that costume and said “hey let’s copy this.”

[@OwenLikesComics]

Agreed, I don't think there's any way Ditko and Lee intentionally took from the Ben Cooper costume, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility that when designing Spider-Man it may have been a subconscious influence. Thanks for commenting!

[@kylebewley7790]

@@OwenLikesComics so I’ve been thinking a lot about this, there’s more than enough coincidences imo that one can correlate that in all likelihood, this was the true inspiration behind the suit. Do you not think it is bizarre that all three artists claimed to of created spider-man and pretty much fell out over it. Ben cooper costumes was the biggest in New York. Who was only miles from Stan Lee and co. Who happen to create comics about superheroes who wear no other than costumes and are mainly based in.. New York. What we have is a costume, that has the wrestler eyes, webbing on the face and body, a spider motif on the chest, with the name Spiderman on the mask that came 8 years prior to Spider-man, and this is all happening a few miles from each other, that’s a striking coincidence don’t you think? Now lets think about what Stan Lee said, Stan said he came up with the name spider-man and that the hyphen was super important between the spider and man. Now I wonder why? When Ben Cooper came up with the name Spiderman, it makes sense now why Stan kept pushing that story about the hyphen, its because he knew deep down it differenced his from Ben cooper Spiderman. I do believe Ben cooper went to marvel about this, and marvel agreed a merchandising deal with Ben cooper to keep things sweet. We’ll never know for sure. But in all probability i think this story is real.

[@MFSeaMen]

Great vid. Technically Bagman was from the Venom origin, as Spidey did not have a spare costume when he asked the F4 at the Baxter Building. Johnny Storm whipped up a quick costume from a spare F4 costume and stuck a note saying Kick me on the back.

[@snakes3425]

It's still the greatest Spidey Costume ever ;)

[@digadigado]

personally I was disapointed bombastic bagman wasn't in the new game

[@SKMP]

You may want to check the game now

[@juggernautnation369]

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all lol so what they drew inspiration from predecessors as templates for a new spider themed hero. Artist do this all the time they still made it their own which stands out as the better version. They combined concepts, I'm sure the Ben Cooper costume inspired the webbing design and mask on the costume, they got the original red and black color scheme from Jack Kirby. Jack Kirby got the color scheme from The Spider but flipped it in reverse which Ditco used this scheme and Romita changed it to Red and Blue. This along with a host of predecessors such as DC's Tarantula, The Spider Queen inspired the web shooters a list of others you mentioned gave birth to the unique and original Spider-Man costume and character we all know and love today. When an artist creates these characters I'm more than sure they had to do research into prior themed characters so as to not accidentally copy a character but also inspire them with ideas they could use for their character in their own unique way. Again theirs nothing nefarious about this as they didn't steal anything it's called drawing inspiration. Otherwise it's like saying Motley Crue stole from Van Halen rather they didn't steal anything they were inspired by Van Halen along with a host of other bands and created their own style. The thing is with Marvel being what they are and with Spider-Man being a hit character they had to protect themselves from the ones they drew inspiration from which would've tangled them in lawsuits even though they created their own unique character out of those inspirations.

[@radentruman7535]

good response

[@lastlife0726]

I find it interesting that the Marvel licensed Ben Kooper spider-man has the spider design with four legs pointing up and four pointing down, a look that wouldn't be present in the comics until 1980. I doubt there's any connection, it's just interesting.

[@thetruth45678]

Ben Cooper... Ben Parker... Hrmmm....

[@gadgetts5342]

Brilliant research on this video but it reminds me of the Simpsons episode about Itchy and Scratchy's original creator. Spider-Man became as big as it did, not because of the costume but because of the story. So much rubbish was pumped out back then, I'm betting if things had gone differently, Spider-Man would've been lost to the ages.

[@Gmiah08]

I use to wear Ben Cooper costumes. I remember those publishing company deals. They did get those ideas from all of the above-mentioned. Nothing slipped passed those guys in New York. I was there thanks for the memories. 😇😺😆

[@DocReasonable]

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Kirby as Spider-Man's creator, or at least a major instigator. Yes, Jack repeatedly stated he created Spider-Man's costume. After all, he drew the first image of Spider-Man ever seen by the public -- the cover of Amazing Fantasy #15. And Stan Lee always maintained that Kirby drew the first Spider-Man story, which was supposedly rejected but (it can be argued) saw print in FF Annual #1 in 1963. Stan always claimed Kirby's version of Spider-Man was 'too heroic' yet he used Kirby covers on AF#15 and ASM #1.

[@GMakn619]

His back story makes so much sense now why uncle Ben was killed by a thief and spider man lives out his life in regret.

[@thiago4santos]

Nice collab, hope for more. If the costume maker did not complain then maybe is just a coincidence, like you guys making a video about the same theme haha.

[@nedjabbar2966]

its most likely true that they or someone got a hold of catalog at the time : its ones job to keep an eye out for an idea : after all Spider man , the Spider , Or the Web, or Man Spider ,Or Spider-Man ! the name is going to be the same . The big question is ? is can one take an idea and make it better ? both Stan and Steve Ditko had very big egos : I look at Spider Man as a creative team effort P.S at this point it does not matter who started the idea or came up with Spider Man : we know about Stan Lee history of over telling a story and Ditiko history of being over dramatic : and who knows may be its true about Jack Kirby getting a job on the side and designing those kids costumes : ( some should ask his son daughter if they remember but in all the interviews it never came up : but after all Stan did say at the opening of Amazing fantasy #15 that super heroes are a dime a dozen !

[@deepstatethrombosis]

Hey thanks for filling in the blanks! I'm here from nerdsync and definitely subbed! You guys should collaborate more often :)

[@OwenLikesComics]

Hey Greg, thanks so much! Hope you stick around and check out some of my other videos. Scott and I will likely wind up working together again soon, we always seem to be on a similar wavelength when it comes to this sorta thing haha!

[@deepstatethrombosis]

@@OwenLikesComics very cool! Thanks again :)

[@SeekerLancer]

I think the spider-themed hero part of Spider-Man is less important than the Peter Parker part. It was the relatable teenager that made the concept work as well as it did.

[@thomaswelbourn55]

Came straight from the Nerdsync video as you're a fellow Brit

[@OwenLikesComics]

Us Brits gotta look out for each other! Hope you enjoyed the video

[@thomaswelbourn55]

@@OwenLikesComics enjoyed it quite a bit, even subscribed, very informative.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you, I really appreciate it! Got a new video dropping tomorrow, stay tuned.

[@sneggleblech]

It was a fly crawling up the wall, not a spider

[@s.nifrum4580]

Brandon Allen That story’s been told in a lot of ways

[@csandreas]

I was in Texas when Scott told me about this and your part is bloody genius as usual!

[@OwenLikesComics]

haha thank you very much, Chris!

[@timsmythfilmsandanimations]

I don't for a minute think Stan came to Jack with an idea of a young super hero with the powers of a Spider, and Kirby then delivered the Silver Spider/Spiderman to Stan?? That was convenient.

[@timespace.productions7513]

Supposedly, Kirby worked as a designer at the halloween-costume factory during that time, so...?

[@OwenLikesComics]

Yeah, Scott discusses this rumour is greater detail. Personally, I couldn't find any substantial evidence to suggest that Kirby did in fact work for Ben Cooper, so I left it out.

[@MasterOfSparks]

OK now there's an even bigger mystery to be solved. Was the name "The Silver Spider" stolen by a rock and roll group from Britain who called themselves... The Silver Beatles

[@rowandunning6877]

when two youtubers do a collab and you have to go back and forth through the videos forever

[@timsmythfilmsandanimations]

I think Stan said he was inspired by a fly crawling up the wall, not a Spider. I have a feeling that Jack probably brought the entire idea to Stan, including the Spiderman logo by Simon. Once Stan found out that the whole idea was taken from the Fly, he took the Kirby pages from Ditko, and they were never seen again. Stan also claimed he searched for an artist to replace Kirby on the project, and picked Ditko, but Ditko was already the artist of that magazine, and was already tapped to do the inks, so that search didn't seem too hard. It could be that Jack was jut too busy, and Stan had to start over, I don't think it was because his hero was too manly. Stan probably did come up with the new plot, which was pretty much the same as the Hulk, and gave a written synopsis to Ditko as the new artist. Kirby did draw the finished cover, but it was based on Ditko's rejected cover. Ben Cooper probably saw an issue of Spider-Man and went to Marvel to make a deal. It is as unlikely that Ditko ever saw one of Ben's costumes as it is likely. So that is a big assumption, as is Kirby who working "maybe" at Ben Cooper's and "maybe" designed the costume. Ditko's roommate claimed that Ditko designed the costume. Joe Simon's, Kirby's, and Ditko's accounts all add up, only Stan's does not match.

[@darrenbermingham]

NerdSync sent me. Great work. Subscribed.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you, Darren - it's much appreciated! Look out for a brand new video on the channel tomorrow

[@emmahoneybun6102]

Bagman is WAY older than that game - there was a really old issue of Spider-Man where his costume was damaged and the Human Torch lends him a bag and a spare Fantastic Four suit

[@jonjones6764]

It was when the FF removed the symbiote the first time. Pete had nothing to wear leaving the Baxter building so they loaned him an old FF uniform and to protect his secret ID, he put a bag on his head to keep his face covered. Johnny even put a kick me sign on Pete's back

[@madisonbrooks5793]

Since the Ben Cooper company agreed to let them make Spider-Man costumes, then obviously it was okay with them to do so. If they had a problem with Marvel's hero, they would have sued or something. So there's no drama to be had.

[@awesomeperson531]

Came from Nerdsync

[@OwenLikesComics]

Welcome!

[@victorq4842]

One question I have is. If jack kirbys original Spider-Man drawing was too buff and heroic then why did they use his cover art for the first issue. Cover art where Spider-Man looks the same old skinny teenager he always looked like.

[@ANIpJs]

To be fully honest, I had to make peace with the fact that a good 80 to 90% of the iconic heroes of the Big Two (along with many, many ones by lesser known publishers) where "inspired" by pre-existing ideas to the point of borderline plagiarism. For one example isn't Batman basically just the combination of pulp heroes The Shadow, Zorro and the silent film villian The Bat? Or how Superman is a combination of John Carter of Mars and various Biblical figures. It's just a fact of the medium, and to me it's more about what was done with the characters after their inception than how they initially came to be. Also as much as I Love the man for everything he has done for comics, with his age and almost pathological need to please the fans. Stan "The Man" Lee is basically the unreliable narrator of the history of Marvel Comics. I don't think there's any malice in the less than true or conflicting statements he's made over the decades. And it most certainly doesn't take away from all of his contributions and accomplishments in service of the medium. It's just that ever since I learned more about the history of comics, I've learned that when it comes to Lee it's best to take his accounts and what he says with a massive grain of salt. Again love the man, he is a national treasure, but he's a fiction writer from a time where his job was to write stories to sell books of advertisements for toys, candies and mail in offers for x-ray specs. He's not a historian, and given when most of his stories are from, probably on a lot of drugs at the times (it was the 60's/70's we've all seen that picture of him naked with a Hulk comic censoring his junk). Stan Lee is that one old grandpa we have, he loves to tell all those crazy stories that the little children love, yet make the older generation roll their eyes Think the Tim Burton movie Big Fish.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Oh definitely. All characters and stories in fiction take (even the most subtle) reference or inspiration from another existing piece of media, that's just how creation and imagination work. When it comes to Lee, you've got to know what you're getting into when analysing things he's said; I've made a ton of videos on the history of Marvel (there's even a playlist!), so I'm more than aware to not take him as gospel (though we do love him).

[@ANIpJs]

@@OwenLikesComics yeah the thing that bothers me when it come to writers using pre-existing ideas, is Alan Moore. See a lot of fans and sometimes Moore himself like to rant about unoriginality when other creatives tackle something he created. You tend to see this a lot with Watchmen. But the thing is when it comes to Moore so very, very much of the bulk of his work is based on reworking other ideas. Cases in point: he started his work on superhero deconstruction with Miracle Man (itself a British reworking of Captain Marvel/Shazam, which was ripped off of Superman to the point where the courts got involved), the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen ( taking the modern concept of a superhero team made up of independent heroes, and applying it to the literary ancestors of comic book, Pulp heroes), His Lovecraft trilogy is an deconstruction of the works of H.P. Lovecraft. Lost Girls, hey look at that Alan Moore writes erotic fan fiction. Hell even Watchmen itself wasn't conjured out of thin air, originally more pitch the idea of reworking characters from the defunct Charlton comics line that DC had recently acquired They already had plans for those characters but loved the pitch, so they asked Moore to rework them into not those characters. But they totally are, just altered. Even that books ending is directly ripped off from an old Outer Limits episode: The Architect of Fear. So when I hear fans complaining about uses of Moore characters without him, I tend to find them ignorant of comic history and when Moore does it himself he comes off like a bitter hypocrite. That being said I have a lot of complicated feelings about latter day Moore, this might come off as comic geek heresy but in my eyes he's only behind Frank Miller in terms of fallen comic book legends. And after the ways he as publically attacked people like Steve Ditko and fans of Superheroes, well let's just say I was glad when he announced his retirement from comics. But I've gone off on a personal tangent. It's a fact of culture, things are recycled, worked, used as inspiration. It's no different with any other form of creative story telling. And as odd as it sounds the comic that best shows this is Deadpool Killostrated (probably misspelled that), it shows how ideas evolve and live on though their spiritual descendants.

[@FrigginBoomToys]

Everything is a reboot

[@ilitardo160]

The two u just named aren’t really that bad when it comes to inspiration or plagiarism

[@RarebitFiends]

Bombastic Bag-Man was designed by Ron Frenz and first appeared in Amazing Spider-Man #258, published in 1984. The costume is not a product of the early 2000s video games. :/

[@AljonGo]

Great video. Stopped by from NerdSync. Subscribed. 🤘

[@martymacleod6824]

Is there a Ditko AF#15 version cover? Did Kirby use Ditko’s SM design then for the AF#15 cover and not his masculine design?

[@KairuHakubi]

So really, the change from spiderman to silver spider could have been the one motivated by "oh that's a halloween costume already"

[@Dallen9]

In the world of Creatives if the Question ever comes up if Theft is involved the answer is always Yes. Everything was stolen they just took things from source a and Source B and gave it a new coat of paint. It's why Ideas can't be copywritten or Pattened.

[@Captain_MonsterFart]

You aren't using capital letters or punctuation correctly. It's important we keep written language clear so we can understand each other! In the world of creatives, if the question ever comes up "is theft involved?", the answer is always yes. Everything was stolen. They just took things from source A and source B and gave it a new coat of paint. It's why ideas can't be copy-written or patented.

[@MrEmmanueltorres1]

I’m here from Nerdsync awesome video I’m very interested in the history of Spider-Man

[@CrownRock1]

Bombastic Bag-Man FTW!

[@Thejmack115]

ditko is basically spider-mans bill finger

[@jtgamer-nintendo-xbox]

ASm one Book was actually released in December 1962

[@bean9333]

I also came from the NerdSync video. Great video man.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Welcome! Hope you enjoyed the video and hopefully check out some more.

[@dwitefry4157]

sorry to be THAT comment but the Bag-Man costume originates in the comics, not the PSOne games.

[@alexmadsen5398]

Wow my spider senses are tingling with joy, this was awesome thank you

[@georgewilliams1470]

I always heard that Jack Kirby designed the costume but Stan felt that Jack couldn't draw a skinny kid so he gave the job to Ditko.

[@DocReasonable]

And yet Kirby had no problem drawing Johnny Storm as a skinny teen.

[@Tha_Pencil]

The bombastic bagman costume is from ASM 258 👏FAKE👏FAN👏

[@handoffate7262]

And Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko both went on to be regarded as comic book legends anyway.

[@damienarmies]

Nice video I like to learn new things about characters I enjoy.

[@Redrum420CF]

just subscribed. was from nerdsync and a fan of other comic shows like dave knows comics and amy dallen.

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you and welcome! Fun story, I actually met Amy Dallen in LA over the summer, she's great.

[@azmainzakaria2177]

The thing is Spiderman himself is a knockoff of this female character I forgot the name of, that was created in the 1940s. To go into more details, this female character was a scientist and loved studying spiders a lot. She built web shooters like that of Spiderman and after her husband was killed she decided to turn into a spy and use these spider like gadgets to aid her in various missions. If anyone knows who this female character is do let me know.

[@TheLegendCG]

I think it was called spiderwoman or something

[@Cervando]

He is based on both Spider Queen, who had bracelets which fired webs and DC's Tarantula, who climbed walls and ceilings and fired webs to trap villains and swing from. Tellingly, Tarantula was even called Spiderman by the media in his comics.

[@ulrickennedy5155]

Is there a link for Nerd Syncs video included? I wanted to see the answer. But from what I'm aware, Jack Kirby designed that Ben Cooper suit in 1954 for the company and then brought the whole idea to Marvel who done their usual and ripped him off.

[@OwenLikesComics]

NerdSync's video should be up in the next couple of days. It was supposed to be released at the same time as mine, but Scott had a few delays. And yeah, I was going to mention the whole 'Kirby working for Ben Cooper' rumour, but I chose not to because honestly I couldn't find any concrete evidence to state he actually did. It's not out of the realm of possibility though.

[@ulrickennedy5155]

@@OwenLikesComics kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2014/12/30/spider-man-the-case-for-kirby/ thought you might want to read this for a follow up video

[@Peringon]

Who are you, awesome guy? and why have I only come across your channel until know?

[@OwenLikesComics]

I don't know, but I'm glad you did! Hope you enjoyed the video.

[@emperorsean1]

How did they steal it if they created and own it?

[@comicbookguy6361]

They were employess of Marvel Comics even the scumbag and thief Stan Lee. They don't own those characters. The characters belongs to Marvel.

[@akkshayadwivedi]

Very enjoyable Bro thanks

[@OwenLikesComics]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@mikaperzyna8230]

Poor Scott

[@OwenLikesComics]

He does not need nor deserve your sympathy!

[@WoodsAreBeautiful]

3:03 OMG THAT LOOKS LIKE *GASP* SPIDER NOIR MARVEL TOTALLY STOLE THAT COSTUME IDEA

[@oliverortiz8507]

Excellent video.

[@ericpeterson8732]

As fascinating as this is, what you are proposing is to take credit from Steve Ditko to give to an old Halloween costume company who has NEVER made a claim. Why do modern people always want to desconstruct the past? Ditko's estate is already suing for the copyright for Spiderman. (The costume, origin, etc) These kinds of history investigations are pointless, except for the sleuths to feel important. What if Ditko was inspired by the 8 year old costume? He didn't copy it, he made it his own. This is as bad as the Shazam/Superman lawsuit just because they were super strong characters who could fly.

[@Cyclopsblast]

Well we all find out things late.

[@DropBearJroc]

You just read the quote, and then told the wrong info. Kirby presented it to Lee, not the other way round.

[@JBwatches]

There is alot of stolen property. Lee has made alot of claims over the years and has gotten wealthy off many other people...yet it was important to him to make cameos as a kind old man....yet was quite the contrary. Comic characters to their creators can run into the billions of dollars. I am the creator of X Force Deadpool,Domino and John Wraith. All stolen. No dollars to me whatsoever. Thieves. I can only imagine how many children the have robbed. That is their real history.

[@micahrutland991]

All Marvel and Stan Lee ever did was copy everything DC did first. I know this will piss-off alot of Marvel fans, but it is undeniably true. Stan Lee created the fantastic four only because DC's Justice league was doing so well as a superhero team series. He only included the thing as a member of FF so that if failed as a superhero book he could call it a monster book and continue to sell it. I like marvel and their characters, but most of Stan Lee's ideas are not original. I hate when Marvel fans are so toxic to DC because there would be no Marvel without DC.

[@StephenAnderson98403]

Wow ...... That response from Ditko! (What an arse)

[@nou174]

Anyone else here from Nerd Sync?

[@OwenLikesComics]

Me!

[@Robert_Presto]

Here from NerdSync too.

[@matthewthechosenoneflatt1452]

Actually it was red and black not red and blue

[@Assem508]

Mmm interesting spider man Ben cooper suits

[@s.nifrum4580]

Unpopular opinion that has nothing to do with this video The iron spider claws should be incorporated into the classic spider suit somehow I don’t care if it’s a fucking backpack or something

[@matthewwriter9539]

NerdSync sent me!

[@mobyt.3900]

interesting.

[@YungStylezSSE]

Scott sent me, glad I came

[@OwenLikesComics]

I'm glad I helped make you come... wait what?

[@jackrucinsky6205]

Spider-mans suit is great.

[@FunkyFu42]

There's a lot of recycling in comics..

[@Mickeykaline]

Bro crazy ratchet the apex KZbinr has the same beat towards the end of the vid on his channel 😂 just thought that was cool

[@GhostDrow]

Stan Lee never had an original idea in his life. He 100% stole the entire character idea not just the costume.

[@JNK-gi2ro]

Maybe there's a character that was Stan Lee idea

[@PosthumanHeresy]

Honestly Ditko's letter is phrased so obviously as a confession, especially if you think about the psychology of Ditko. He was a hardcore Objectivist and very obsessed with the concept of black and white morality. Art theft is outside his standard wheelhouse of morality, and any accusation of improper behavior would logically bother him. If he's not a moral good, in his eyes, he'd be a moral evil. So... why is he dancing around the subject? There's only one logical reason: he won't lie, but he doesn't have to admit anything useful in court. He phrased it in such a way that it's not a confession on his, Stan's, or Marvel's behalf. It wouldn't violate any possible NDAs. But it's not a refutation. That is not how an innocent Objectivist behaves.

[@fortitude9932]

Marvel stole ideas about superheroes ... In other news water is wet.

[@Don-Yeti]

This video is all over the place. Too confusing and keeps time jumping. It's a mess

[@phatmantv]

If a rich yte guy did it, then you can almost guarantee its full of a web of lies😂

[@DeltaChairlines]

Stan Lee was inspired by a spider. He was _inspidered._ I’ll leave.

[@joelbaldwin4051]

Marvel stole the name "Ben Reilly" from the Ben Cooper company and the movie "Mary Reilly", but the burden of proof, oh, the burden of proof!

[@TevyaSmolka]

Interesting story on how marvel stole Spider-Man original costume

[@OwenLikesComics]

Thank you!

[@frogmouth2]

The thing is is that people generally like Spider-Man because of his personality and how he uses his powers rather then the design which to be frank isn’t very good for a spider themed here aside from the webbing and logo.

[@hughcipher66]

Ditko most definitely was inspired by the Ben Cooper Spider Man costume. You dont say "the burden of the proof is on the person making the charge" The Charge!? Thats a strong responce. Yeah Ol'e Stevo swiped the basic design from that costume 🤣

[@radentruman7535]

no he was just being Ditko go learn about him that is just how he talked. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZjadaGegrRrn9U

[@s.nifrum4580]

This video is inspidering