Evidence for the Exodus? An Egyptologist's Perspective - Interview with Dr. Maggie Bryson

[@KipIngram]

1:21:30 - This. This is the key thing for me. It's hard for me to imagine Egypt losing that much labor force in one fell swoop without recording it AT ALL.

[@KidsandKittens217]

Good Point. The entire population of Egypt at that time was about 3 million people and losing around 2 million people would rather severely affect the economy. RATHER SEVERELY! And, even if they tried to erase it from History (as the Apologists, having no other explanation, have to claim) there would be a ton of scratched out areas on Monuments and gaps in History, yet we do NOT find anything like that.

[@stevenzapiler5806]

@@KidsandKittens217 All of Egypt was not involved. The city that Horemheb emptied, had approximately 30,000 people.

[@KidsandKittens217]

@@stevenzapiler5806 In REAL Life All of Egypt wasn't involved, but we are talking about the Exodus Narrative from the Bible which claims Egypt lost around 2 million people out of its population of 3 million. That certainly would've been noticed. The narrative doesn't match with the Historical, nor the Archaeological record.

[@jimdee9801]

I think your phrase 1 fell swoop is very apt in the etymological root of meaning of fell. In the savagery of the annihilation of pharaoh and his chariots in the Dead sea

[@KidsandKittens217]

@@jimdee9801 Pharoah was not annihlated in the Dead Sea and neither were his chariots. The entire Exodus story has absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support it. And, in fact, the evidence shows it could not have happened.

[@Kholdaimon]

I think the most important take-away from this discussion is: there is so little evidence for an exodus-type event of Semitic people that current Egyptologists don't even discuss it among themselves. There is just nothing to talk about in that regard.

[@JB-lovin]

Thanks. It was taking so long to get to the substance of discussion that I gave up.

[@johnmonk9297]

They are wrong. Watch a spade unearths the truth. There's plenty of evidence. These aren't giving you it.

[@datacipher]

@@JB-lovinlol… exactly what I was going to say. Listening to this mealy-mouthed narcissist host for TEN minutes before they even start the topic was a ten minutes I’ll never get back. So yeah…. Not going to spend 2 hours yo reaffirm there’s not much evidence. lol. Thanks for the summary op.

[@tater8651]

That was her view, yes. But she’s a pure empiricist. Empirical data is great, but you can never have enough to make an interpretation without assumptions. The point of history is to interpret the past, and that requires the historian to be comfortable enough to assume within the realm of plausibility. That is what the host is arguing for, and the guest doesn’t have the courage to make any interpretation that strays from her empirical facts… which means she will never be able to make an interpretation. It was actually a fascinating intellectual conversation.

[@Kholdaimon]

@@tater8651 You can never make an interpretation without assumptions, but you can make a definitive statement if you have all the facts. And the definitive statement is this: there is no archaeological or historical evidence for an exodus-type event. Unless you consider the Old Testament a reliable historical source on the matter, which most scholars do not, since the only thing it shows us is that the Jewish people wrote down that the Exodus happened hundreds of years afterwards. The guest doesn't lack courage to make an interpretation, she lacks evidence to make an interpretation. Empirical scientists make interpretations all the time, but they interpret data or evidence, without data or evidence there is no way to make an interpretation. For example Plato wrote about Atlantis, he is the first one to do so as far as we know and he said it was a long time ago (for him). We find no evidence for Atlantis archaeologically, nor in contemporary writing (historically). We do know Plato was writing to make a political point about an advanced civilization falling into ruin due to moral degeneration, he was very clear about that in his writing. Put those things together and we come to the interpretation: Atlantis was an allegorical myth Plato made up to make a political argument, which was a common way to argue things in Plato's time. Voila, an interpretation based on empirical evidence by empirical minded scholars. With the Exodus we have nothing, all we can say is that there is zero evidence for this happening, but we do not know exactly why the Jews would make it up or what lead them to believe it. All we can say is that as far as we can tell, it didn't happen and thus there is nothing to talk about or interpret...

[@christopherjohnson5575]

I had a seminary prof at an ELCA seminary describe it something like this: the Exodus was probably six guys being chased by an Egyptian chariot, which then got stuck in the mud.

[@MontyFondatent]

😂😂 a likely event

[@Paulogia]

Thank you, Drs Bowen and Bryson! I learned much.

[@Amateur0Visionary]

You look so two dimensional. You may want to get a better camera for your selfies. Love your work, btw. You do your thing very well, and you don't come off like a know-it-all ass hat. Thank you, sir.

[@danbreeden1801]

A great help I also am thankful a and appreciatave of paulogia

[@chriswest6652]

Hi Paul.I was in the process of watching Inspiring philosophys just released documentary on the Exodus. Check it out. It would be great if U did a rebutal especially as Ur the rising star of the anti apologists as he is for the apologists. my take is that theres truth on both sides. Perhaps there were semit slaves in egypt who used the termoil in egypt due to the eruption of mount santorini - the cause of the plagues, to escape to caanan. This could account for Isreals sense of seperation , that they were the chosen people.

[@streetsdisciple0014]

Had to come back to this after IP’s recent exodus documentary upload.

[@neill392]

The best way to make sense of it, is to understand that it was written during the Babylonian captivity, a story about a great leader who appears to lead his people out of captivity is a message of hope not a telling of history.

[@stephaniemccord8677]

This is so good. I have been looking for a discussion this in depth for while and this video popped up 😃

[@petergrant2561]

The fact is that there is zero archaeological evidence for the historicity of the Exodus story as written. ZERO.

[@Orion-lt3zz]

Why are they hard pressed to say exactly that?

[@kellydalstok8900]

Although I know you are very kind people, and you don’t want to offend anyone, I don’t think it is necessary to respect anyone’s beliefs if they are untrue, as long as you respect the person who holds them.

[@JohnDavis-e3c]

Amen! Well said. From Near N. Orleans.

[@pterafirma]

Actual content starts at 10:49.

[@Chann223]

The same concept behind the telephone game. The truth gets more twisted, exaggerated, and conflated as time goes on and as it moves from person to person until it's something completely different from what it originally was.

[@narratordru7188]

This is the first I've seen of this episode. Great work Josh, Megan and all your guests. I enjoy how you guys focus on what the scholarship says. Dr Bryson helped to paint an excellent picture, including the complexity of the history and the issues. Thanks. Liked and Subscribed.

[@fly_8659]

Also, thumbs up on the production quality you've reached. You've really come a long way since your first videos, nice work, no complains here, perfect!

[@larrytuft9782]

Thanks!

[@gerardc4588]

Great, thank you Drs Bowen and Bryson

[@KipIngram]

27:00 - "Conquered without striking a blow." That sounds to me like an "economic" takeover. They immigrated to the region, were accepted, and settled in and participated in the economy and did so "well," gaining economic power and status and so on. First thing the locals knew, the foreigners were more or less running things. They got fed up with it and eventually ran them off, which the foreign people probably saw as having their wealth "stolen" from them.

[@drewkoopman5905]

Who thumbs these down? Keep up the excellent work.

[@nobleathenian3945]

drew Koopman Someone who wanted to hear confirmation of the biblical Exodus probably thumbed down..

[@grizzlybear3110]

It's hard to let go of lies that have been told you all your life

[@Demolish_DoctrineRichardMadsen]

@Grizzly Bear Your sentence structure harkens me back to my youth, my family and my tiny Italian grandmother.

[@charlesbrowne9590]

I am watching this video for the first time. So far eight minutes has elapsed and nothing has been said about the Exodus. It was two and a half minutes before anybody said anything! I have not (yet) thumbed down the video.

[@billymanilli]

"Hovindites" ...that's who

[@8daysaweek167]

If the story was true Egypt would have been destroyed and never recovered. Why do people live in fear of the truth? It's time to get brave and tell the truth with confidence.

[@xxlionroarxxxxxxxx4438]

Because Christianity can’t survive without their fear

[@joalexsg9741]

First, let me thank you for your wonderful channell above all and this most interesting interview, which made me know this amazing Egyptologist, Dr. Karen (Maggi) Bryson, who, as all true sages, including yourself, shares her wisdom and knowledge with charming humbleness, making us learn the subject more easily as well with her graceful and elegant style. I'd also like to thank you for the wonderful links given here! Well, although I do have my own beliefs as an eclectic Taoist, I would never rely on religious texts by themselves to find the reality of what really happened but only on historical science and archaeology, the religious writings may be useful in this context at the most as some sort of literary comparison with the actual archaeological finds and historical documents. Although I'm no scholar and don´t even master any of the old languages of the Middle East, from what I've been able to read in English translations about these subjects, I've been convinced that some of the main myths of the Bible (like Noah's, Job's, etc) were actually inspired on their much earlier Sumerian counterparts and the later, but still older, Babylonian sources. I'm also convinced that the older Canaanite gods El and Asherah (the Ugaritic Ilu and Athirath, according to what I could read in English about them) are the forerunners of what later became the Jewish El and the Queen of the Shabbat in Jewish oral tradition. And, of course, the very findings in the Elephantine Papyri show that even the supposed fundamentalism of Jewish orthodoxy was not followed by all Jews as sternly as the writers of the Jewish scriptures would have us believe, at least not everywhere, since these texts tell of a syncretic Jewish temple which worshiped at least two Egyptian deities along with the Jewish Yaweh: This old scholarly work "The Significance of the Elephantine Papyri for the History of Hebrew Religion" by Stanley A. Cook is available for online reading on the JSTOR site. One can also download 38 pages of the book on a PDF they offer for free there. www.jstor.org/stable/3155577?seq=3#metadata_info_tab_contents On page 349, one can read at the end of the first paragraph (which actually begins in the previous page): " ... Life in Elephantine afforded the opportunity for the intermingling of cults, and the papyri reveal the astonishing fact that, although the Jews appear fervent and genuine worshipers of Yahu, so far from practicing the strict monotheism which is characteristic of Jewish prophetism and legalism, they EVEN ADMIT TWO OTHER DEITIES BY THE SIDE OF YAHU (YAWEH), AND THUS AFFORD A STRIKING EXAMPLE OF THAT FREEDOM AND LAXITY AGAINST WHICH THE MORE SPIRITUAL MINDS IN ISRAEL HAD TO PROTEST. ..." Stanley Cook in "The Significance of the Elephantine Papyri for the History of the Hebrew Religion” www.jstor.org/stable/3155577?seq=4#metadata_info_tab_contents By the way, I've just found this free PDF with 648 pages, comprising 175 of the documents in this scholarly work: THE ELEPHANTINE PAPYRI IN ENGLISH - THREE MILLENNIA OF CROSS-CULTURAL CONTINUITY AND CHANGE BY BEZALEL PORTEN With J.Joe l Farber, Cary J. Martin, Gunter Vittmannm, Leslie S.B. MacCoull, Sarah Clackson and contributions by Simon Hopkins and Ramon Katzoff www.baytagoodah.com/uploads/9/5/6/0/95600058/the_elephantine_papyri_in_english.pdf I guess both Dr. Maggi Bryson and Dr. Josh himself know about Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman's work 'The Bible Unearthed' (there also video interviews with the authors here on KZbin and many good articles about it available over the web). www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=The+Bible+Unearthed&qid=1593210635&sr=8-1 For those who are not acquainted with their book yet, but would like to have an introduction to the subject, I would suggest this article, whose excerpt below gives a good overview of the core of this topic in the light of these archaeologists' finds, in the article by Assaf Kamer in Ynet: ' ... Prof. Israel Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University, an internationally renowned expert in biblical archaeology, explained the historical background of the biblical Exodus story as revealed from archaeological excavations: "In the Late Bronze Age, from the 15th century to the 12th century BCE, Egypt dominated the Land of Israel. Of course, after 350 or 400 years of Egyptian rule in Israel, influences of Egyptian culture entered the Land of Israel in various areas of everyday life. Then two things happened that are related to that same issue: there was a complete collapse of urban centers and of kingdoms and empires in the ancient Middle East, and Egypt withdrew from Israel!" ...' "... Based on the archaeological finds, the biblical Exodus story's the time period, it was actually the Egyptians who ruled the Land of Israel. There is much material evidence scattered across the country. A prominent example of the Egyptian regime in Israel is the large Ramses fortress, the remains of which are hidden beneath the hilltop of Old Jaffa. ..." In "Did the Exodus really happen? " "Archeological researchers find no evidence that the biblical Exodus as recounted in the Passover story happened, but rather the Egyptians ruled Israel during that period and that it was they who eventually left, though gradually." by Assaf Kamer www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4795318,00.html

[@pinkbunny6272]

This is a free lecture, one of the ways I can learn more on something that isn't my undergrad choice.

[@thomaseliason8376]

We pay the price by having to hear the word "right" 17 million times.

[@scout3279]

Right...!?...Not hearing anything new or informative, right?!

[@JohnSmith-lf5xm]

From the part that says that the Red Sea open to let them pass…. Who will believe the rest of baloney…

[@jessereichbach588]

:Any connection between "Am Yizrael" and "Amu"? The "People of Yizrael""? Wouldn't those people in Egypt and the Levant be the actual ancestors of eventual "Yizraelites"? I mean just the statistical probability would seem fairly high that all of these influence or add to the eventual Yizraelite population. And the Exodus is supposed to be a "mixed multitude" which makes sense. And "Habiru" being different groups of people or "tribes" would make sense as a very diverse proto-Izrealite population or populations that would all add to the later Hebrew or Yizrealite identity. But in all likelihood, all these groups are probably "proto-Izrealites" to different degrees, as they would likely all influence the population, and genomics of the eventual Am Yizrael.

[@El-Buddah]

What inscription or text would mention Yizrael?

[@markgruber1540]

The simple, not to say facile, way to handle archaeology with regards to biblical narratives is to simply say that the archaeological record gives cultural context to the literary record. Whether one is a believer or nonbeliever, fundamentalist or universalist, the context is valuable.

[@choosetolivefree]

The Bible is clearly not a historical record. There may be small chunks of history contained, but, it is inaccurate to consider it a historical document. It is mostly comprised of symbolic writing and myth telling

[@timothymulholland7905]

However much of Exodus is accurate, the scourge is the “promised land” crap that has cause so much conflict and suffering and that promises more of it on a large scale. Debunking the whole thing can help to reduce the violence.

[@puccini4530]

Well said. Currently, Putin is doing his own 'Promised Land' expedition in Ukraine. 'God told us it's ours' - yeah, OK.

[@arvinalz9404]

It's kind of not right when you try to do history because you believe it might relate to how people think today, and it needs to be "debunked" Sounds a lot like anachronism to me

[@l3eatalphal3eatalpha]

@@puccini4530 Without God it is merely one word against another's. Usually the one most prepared for war.

[@brerabbit4233]

Following World War II, Ukraine remained part of the Soviet Union until the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, at which point Ukraine declared its independence. You might not be great at observing objective reality.....

[@brerabbit4233]

@@puccini4530 NATO Started this war not Russia.. It was the U.S. and NATO that have repeatedly violated peace treaties.

[@gingercore69]

Sitching jokes are like immortal aliens... They never get old!

[@NoName-fc3xe]

I thought you were gonna end that with non-existent. Lol

[@gingercore69]

@@NoName-fc3xe there are plenty of sitchin jokes... But if i said sitchin arguments, then that would be a great punch line xD

[@NoName-fc3xe]

@@gingercore69 I'm sure it will come up again. 😁

[@bigskypioneer1898]

I do have to disagree with Dr. Bowen, _slightly,_ that regarding the loss of the Exodus narrative as fact would not be catastrophic for the more orthodox followers of Judaism, Christianity and to a lesser degree Islam. The symbolism of Jesus as both Passover lamb and as the mighty Joshua entering the "Promised Land" is central to Christianity. Obviously the loss of the Exodus story would have political implications of the claims of the state of Israel today. *I am not disagreeing with the premise that these 3 religions are so far removed from the Exodus - it's loss as a viable historic event - **_should_** NOT affect how people view the traditions and culture they experience today via those three faiths.* Any more than the reality that King Arthur is more legend than history should affect how the citizens of Great Britain see themselves. But the reality is - we would likely see irrational reactions - similar to the Reformation/ Counter Reformation.

[@tripp8833]

Sorry but how is Jesus as the Passover land "central" to the doctrine of Christianity? The Books of revelations was a controversial book: almost omitted from the NT canon due to its strangeness and late authorship. It’s not like that phrase was placed in the middle of the gospel of mark

[@bengreen171]

Only caught the last part of this live- really interesting. But what was priceless was the Moment Dr Josh realised he was about to start randomly talking in a funny accent, and it was going to get weird. You have to admire him for just pushing through with it - the cherry on the top being the pause to explain to Dr Bryson what was going on, knowing all the time that the more you have to explain the joke, the less funny it is - which, ironically is really funny. Comedy gold.

[@grizzlybear3110]

Hahaha his Kent Hovind impersonations where really awesome and you could see her bewilderment. He really nailed the pathetic old fool.

[@annascott3542]

You explained that so perfectly. I was thinking the same thing. The look on her face every time he did that. Makes me giggle a little just thinking back on it. So funny.

[@KipIngram]

I think my biggest memory of this video is going to be "Right?" 🙂

[@danbreeden1801]

Who was the most ancient king or ruler of egypt

[@sdscipio]

Finally an Egyptian take on this!

[@NoName-fc3xe]

Great video, interview, guest and host! Love the show!

[@olympus258]

I have two questions, the answers of which might help here: Q1: when the ancient Egyptians started calling their kings Pharaoh ? Was the term Pharaoh mentioned anywhere in hieroglyphs ? Q2: What ancient Egypt used to be called during the times when these stories were written?

[@timhazeltine3256]

From what I have read the term "Pharaoh," "Great House," which roughly translates to " the Royal Palace," originated in the early to mid-18th Dynasty to refer to the ruling monarch. It was an euphemism, much like communiques from the American president are often referred to as coming from "The White House..." instead of "President XXX..." Similarly, in Great Britain, press statements are often couched as coming from "Buckingham Palace" instead of the monarch.

[@chaseharrison2064]

I love the Kent Hovind impression. That got me.

[@billymanilli]

What'd DH do? Bodyslam his wife? 🤭

[@wesleybass6681]

Loved the conversation! Do you think you could convince Dr. Bryson to come back to talk about David Rohl and the Patterns of Evidence documentary? I'd love to hear her thoughts about his New Chronology model.

[@austin3789]

Yes, I'd love an interaction with that model... It seems really compelling to me.

[@NicholBrummer]

This story of groups of people moving in and out of the settled society reminds me of the way David Graeber speaks about the money & taxing system in Mesopotamia and Assyria. He said people could choose to grow certain more regular standardised plants or animals, but that these would be taxed. Other people could live in the untaxed world and be free, but without certain privileges going along with it. Would that freedom describe the Apiru? And would it follow the original split between Kain and Able, the settled farmer and the (semi)nomad hunter-gatherer-herder?

[@leedoss6905]

The Death Angel passover in the old Ten Commandments movie scared the living daylights out of me when it came out at the Drive-In. I was just a wee kid. Had frigging nightmares.

[@jewellyjewelly]

Loved it! My second time through!

[@scienceexplains302]

*Yam Sof?* What did Ym Sf mean to the author? The water the Hebrews supposedly crossed was Ym Sf, understood as Yam Suf. Yam means sea or lake. Suf means reed, but Sof means end. So it may have had a double meaning *sea/lake of reeds and of the end*. In Exodus, the sea/lake represented the end of that pharaoh (no real pharaoh matches the Exodus) and the end of slavery for the Hebrews. In Egyptian mythology, the Field of Reeds was a place in the afterlife. ChatGPT claims “In Egyptian mythology, the reed represented several aspects and had various symbolic meanings. One of the prominent representations of the reed was as a hieroglyphic symbol… The reed was often used to denote the concept of existence, life, and stability. Additionally, …. In some depictions, Osiris was portrayed holding a shepherd's crook, which had a distinctive curved top resembling the shape of a reed. This association with Osiris further emphasized the reed's connection to life, rebirth, and the afterlife….” Passage thru Yam Suf is also a reversal of the beginning: in the beginning in Genesis 1 the waters were separated to make land for people. In Exodus they were separated to let Yahweh’s people into the Promised Land, start their series of genocides, and form the nation. A major impetus for writing the Exodus seems to have been to encourage the Jews who had recently left the Babylonian Captivity to “rebuild” their nation, even though some people had never left. So the Israelites walked thru the waters of the End/Reeds/Existence (puns are frequently used). It was the end of their slavery and Egyptian rule over them. But it is also a reversal of the beginning: in the beginning in Genesis 1 the waters were separated to make land for people. In Exodus they were separated to let Yahweh’s people into the Promised Land, start their series of genocides, and form the nation. Two pyramids refer to purification in the marsh of reeds. @42:00 “The Monumental Impact of Egypt on the Bible” on the MythVision KZbin channel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoC2Y2pnaqx5es0 Hebrew has words for swamp and marsh, so if there is a connection between Yam Suf and the cleansing reeds, maybe the Exodus merely refers to a larger body of water. Yam If may refer to the Great Bitter Lake This would make sense literarily, since bitter water is used as a loyalty test in the Hebrew Bible. BibleArchaeology.org the name yam suph is used in reference to the Gulf of Aqaba (Ex 23:31; Nm 21:4; Dt 1:40, 2:1; 1 Kgs 9:26) and apparently the Gulf of Suez (Nm 33:10-11). That makes both legitimate candidates for the sea crossing location… … marshy lakes to the east (of the Isthmus of Suez), and the desert beyond. In antiquity there were five lakes in this narrow strip of land: Ballah Lake, Lake Timsah, Great Bitter Lake and Little Bitter Lake. Marah - bitterness - a fountain at the sixth station of the Israelites (Ex. 15:23, 24; Num. 33:8) whose waters were so bitter that they could not drink them. On this account they murmured against Moses… So the Israelites expressed disloyalty at Marah. But Marah is not a metaphor for the crossing, because only the Israelites are mentioned drinking the water there. Maybe a major impetus for writing the Exodus was to encourage the Jews who had recently left the Babylonian Captivity to rebuild their nation.

[@mshaffer-2629]

End of territorial lands? I imagine it refers to the gulf of Eliat, the end of the sea. If you look at name for red sea in Egyptian, it is the sea with turning winds, very functional name reference the monsoon winds of Indian-Africa waterways.

[@scienceexplains302]

@ I mentioned Aqaba, which is another name for Eilat.

[@mshaffer-2629]

@scienceexplains302 Nuweiba @29 degrees north latitude is my estimation of a Eliat gulf crossing. Yes, Aqaba was a second port city, much later I believe.

[@El-Buddah]

Even the lowest part located at aqaba is 17 yards in depth. How could a million women, children and old folk climb down and out the muddy gap. Theres sharks in the sea and crocodiles in the fresher water part also. Keep in mind the maleria from the mosquito bites caused by the sitting water. And then those people fought the Amelekites without having food, water and supplies in an arabian desert? Over 100 degrees in the day and 50 at night.

[@scienceexplains302]

@ I should have clarified; I’m not saying any of the biblical narrative happened, other than the Babylonian Captivity and return from there. I’m speculating on what Ym Sf meant to the author. But my last sentence and a couple others are good indicators.

[@TheDeadlyDan]

That Ezra {the person or group} compiled and published the 'lost' writings from a myriad of sources is heavily weighted given the styles of writing, the subjects covered, and the information contained. We also know that he skewed Cyrus' words and deeds to fit his narratives even while Cyrus was alive and well. His "job" was to provide a back story for the sudden influx of thousands of people from Babylon and give them cover for in essence taking over. Needing to fit the Pentatuch into the oral mythologies of his time and given that Judaism was monotheistic, an Egyptian monotheistic revolution would fit perfectly. Especially one where the entire theology was then rejected and it's practitioners banished. Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten fits in nicely in both time and in theme with just a few minor changes in events and names. The Moses origin story closely follows Egyptian mythology, and places him in much the same royal scenario as Amenhotep IV would have lived. No doubt when Amarna was deserted, the inhabitants being the priesthood and the followers of Akhenaten they'd have been banished from Egypt. HIbaru - them damn troublemakers. Something about Akhenaten tic'd them off so much that they took pains to erase him. You can be assured anyone associated with him would have been treated the same. That Ezra played loosely with truth and history has been shown repeatedly. Why wouldn't he take the 'best' of everyone's oral traditoins and bend them to his task. It worked, didn't it?

[@Tzimiskes3506]

Read the Al Yahudu tablets...

[@noamaster3898]

The frequent apologies during the Hovind impression only made it funnier!

[@heatherjones6647]

The interview would have been half as long if MB hadn't said "right" every third word.

[@choosetolivefree]

Right?!?! Noticed it too.

[@gerrievanbreugel7245]

I really appriciate the way Dr Bryson is approaching this subject ( as many scolars do) based upon the available evidence from as many sources create the thesis of what could have happend. And not take a book written by men ( many autors are unknown) , compiled by men and adapted, changed and modified over time by men as the single source of truth.

[@irontaylor9992]

hows it goign dr josh i love your channel

[@KipIngram]

That's a staggeringly large number of people in that context. If you take a million people, anywhere in the world, and just try to march them across the country as a group, you'd rapidly run into problems with them feeding themselves, finding water for themselves, etc. etc. And I'm talking about *today*, in the modern world - much less in primitive times. It's hard to imagine that working logistically. At the very least I'd say the burden of proof is on the person who wants to claim it happened without absolutely disastrous consequences (like 80 or 90 percent of them just dying in the wilderness).

[@MsDjessa]

26:36 That reminds me of the Glorious Revolution when William of Orange was invited to take the throne from James II, because his subjects didn't like that James was a Catholic. William (who was Dutch) pretty much conquered England without a fight. 1:50:30 Indeed. I have read that Viking men wore makeup and yeah if one looks at the clothing of seventeenth and eighteenth century Europe both men and women wore elaborate and colorful clothes. Even military uniforms used to be colorful and bright. Good example are the wonderful uniforms of Napoleonic Wars. And there is this tribe in Africa called Wodaabe, they traditionally have beauty competitions between men not women. And I got to say Wodaabe men are indeed very beautiful. 1:53:15 Aaw, kitty is drunk. She's my favorite god, purrrr.

[@mythosboy]

The interviews with Dr's Bryson, Reed and Baden have been generally excellent. Just re-listening to this interview and it is just reminding me about how much I liked it the first time.

[@andybeans5790]

Go find the one with John J Collins, it's also great.

[@danbreeden1801]

Could the volcanic destruction of the island of Santorini had an effect on the tradition of the Hebrews over a long period of time eventually being written in the Torah

[@chriswest6652]

thats central to my take on things. Taking the Naked Archeologist with a grain of salt, god probably didnt use the natural plagues resulting from the eruption of the volcano. The Hebrews simply saw their chance and took off eh. If I may go on, the Hyksos sound like a prime canadite for the true jews. It makes sense, asuming the battles for the promised land R essentially true, that the Hyksos, already armed and dangerous, could militarily command vaste tracts of cannan. Or, asuming the exodus were jews, joined their brethren, already in cannan, who never left. The resulting influx of able bodied males, tipped the balance in favor of the irealile allience against the various warring caanite factions.

[@barryrichins1195]

Maggie, I once was a Mormon, and as such, I somehow was convinced that the Book of Abraham was a true book of scripture. I am familiar of the comments of Dr. Ritner on the book, but I am curious to learn your academic opinion. I am a retired professor of English and Spanish, but ancient scripture was only a part of my world lit classes, not something i was familiar with. Messnge me should you be willing to share your opinion with me. Thanks.

[@thomaseliason8376]

Right ?

[@LukeADouglas]

Has your thesis been published? I love the transition between the 18th and 19th dynasties, and would gladly read a thesis on the reign of Horemheb.

[@michaelsommers2356]

You can probably get it by inter-library loan from you local library. I've gotten other dissertations that way.

[@danbreeden1801]

Wonderful episode very well done

[@AlanCanon2222]

11:30 Content begins after long intro.

[@DigitalHammurabi]

We eventually came to the realization that I (Josh) am not very good at interviewing people. 🤣

[@Friedrichsen]

Hi Dr. Josh, this was a great interview. It would be really interesting to see you do an interview with Egyptologist David Rohl.

[@KonjanCham]

If Exodus was a retelling of a real event, how come there is no name for the Pharaoh in the story. If this was a real event, surely the very key information of the story, i.e. the name of the very main culprit in the story, would have been mentioned! Such a thing happens to a story, which at the time of its happening is so unimportant, or the story is made up far into future when people do not even remember the names or details.

[@tangerinetangerine4400]

Good point!

[@Mouthwash019283]

IIRC that is in accordance with the practice of the time, Egyptian kings were referred to as 'Pharaoh' rather than later on when their names were given

[@paulbrandel5980]

@@Mouthwash019283 Prove it! I seriously doubt what you said.

[@Mouthwash019283]

@@paulbrandel5980 well, I don't have a primary source for it, but I've heard this from Egyptologists in KZbin and elsewhere

[@paulbrandel5980]

Well we know for a fact there was not mass exodus out of Israel. Might there be a small Hebrew group that left Egypt? That's possible but its not what the Bible states. Also we know that there was no Israelite slave building the pyramids. Its a foundational myth of the Jewish people. Similar to the obvious myth of the Tower of Babel and fallen angels having sex with earth women 😂😂😂

[@JCW7100]

Great video! :)

[@haushofer100]

Great videos. Contentwise, tonewise, and productionwise. As an amateur-hebraist and bible-enthusiastic your videos are really insightful. All the best from Holland :)

[@thomaseliason8376]

Count the number of times they say "right"... if you can !

[@kellydalstok8900]

Noord- of Zuid-Holland? Indien geen van beide, gebruik de echte naam van ons land, nl. “The Netherlands” in het vervolg a.u.b.

[@haushofer100]

@@kellydalstok8900 It's neither. I'm Frisian.

[@bigskypioneer1898]

I suspect the question regarding a series of plagues 1:58:00 had more to do with the 10 plagues that Moses is supposed to have performed to get the Israelites out of Egypt - not illnesses like the "black death" per-se. Like the plague of locusts or the Nile turning to blood - that sort of thing.

[@stevenzapiler5806]

The culture of studying ANE history and religion at Hopkins is to be open and open minded and curious, and to consult primary sources. "What is the evidence for the Exodus?" Horemheb is the key. Jewish memory dates the Exodus precisely to 2448 A.M. That date corresponds to 1313 B.C.E. Horemheb was the Pharaoh when the city Akhenaten built was closed by Horemheb and the people who lived there had to leave. Some, with Horemheb himself, returned to Thebes. Some who left, did not stay in Egypt. They sought a new home. Akhenaten was villified by the Egyptian culture. Merenptah's stele has the earliest reference to those who left and didn't go back with Horemheb. "SRAEL SEED IS GONE". Merneptah was assuring his kingdom that the "despised Akhenaten"'s followers that didn't return with Horemheb and had escaped to the North didn't survive. The followers of Akhenaten that went North refused to return to Thebes were Egyptians (Moses, aka the famous "son" aka MS in Egyptian aka the despised Akhenatenites had to hide from the Egypt that Horemheb restored--Merneptah was leader of the restored Egypt. He came back from his excursion to regain hegemony over the Nine Bows and reported his success on the stele, including his confirmation that the despised people who didn't return with Horemheb didn't need to be overcome, because they didn't survive their "exodus". The Exodus narrative, at its core, is about the Egyptians that went north and they survived by denying and hiding that they were once the people who believed in their Pharoah, who didn't survive himself. The references to Moses and the "S RA EL" people are still identifiable by their having been followers of a true Prince of Egypt. Circumcision was a practice of Egyptians. Wearing fringed linens that were purple was a practice of Egyptians. The notion of a soul that is separate from the flesh is a narrative of the Egyptians. The passing of their great history of knowledge of the powers of speech and writing is a narrative of the Egyptians. And those Egyptians, to this day, survived, by denying they were once the people of the great Prince of Egypt, the adopted son of the house of Amenhotep. There's the kernal of the story that is "evidence" of the Exodus.

[@jonahjohnsen6519]

No the exodus comes from the workforce revolt of the igigi against Enlil in Babylonian mythology which was later passed down though pre Israelite tribes into the Hebrew nation which then was modified long after Egypt by editors who were only familiar with Egypt so rewrote it from an Egyptian bondage interpretation. The original material was about the lower gods in service to higher gods revolting over working conditions. Sodom and Gomorrah is about the Igigi encroaching apon Enlils palace during thier revolt but got rewritten from another perspective to drive a point. David's dishonor was Enlil taking a woman to bed against her will he was exiled and exonerated only for marriage to her. Lots daughters attempting to entice thier father comes from Enki having sex with his female creations. Story of Moses is basically the story of Enlil and Enki Anu has Two sons Enlil and Enki Enki betrays Enlil by telling Astrahasis of the flood that Enlil Zeus foreswore all the gods to secrecy. The writer took the story introduced another betrayal reasoning but the outline is the same. The Bible is basically the Astrahasis recoded into stories throughout the Bible. They recoded the Astrahasis into the Torah for two reasons, to trick the people into thinking they were getting something new that was altered from polytheism to monotheism without revealing they merged Anu Enlil Marduk and Enki into Yweh The other reason was to keep the original material by encoding it under new interpretation.

[@blackbuddha8167]

Great topic I wish I could have caught this live

[@annascott3542]

@1:49 on the alternative translations, it’s: the sea of reeds or the sea of the end.

[@kendrabueckert3240]

Omg that was hilarious when Josh read the questions as Kent Hovind!! Perfect comparison!!!🤣🤣🤣

[@choosetolivefree]

Right? Right. Right. Right?!?! Riiiight.

[@NM_rocker]

Another great stream, hats off to you all. Dr. Bryson was very interesting, informative, fun and I’d like to see her on the channel again. 👍👍👍

[@Iamwrongbut]

Die hard is to Christmas movies what fireworks are to the 4th of July The best part, and incomplete without it

[@john1425]

Josh's Kent Hoving impression kicks ass! I actually talked to Kent Hoving on the phone briefly one time, I called Dinosaur Adventure Land and it went to his cell phone. He really does sound exactly like that, none of it is an act or a show.

[@john1425]

Even if Dr. Bryson was completely confused by it.

[@chaseharrison2064]

What was the reason for your calling?

[@davidburroughs2244]

Hopefully to help him with his computer ....

[@someguyoverthere3275]

I left childish things behind. I am an adult now. I see this and realize they love B U L L S H I T over truth. Wrap science in a thick layer of B U L L S H I T and suprise! It's burried under it and becomes nothing.

[@john1425]

@@someguyoverthere3275 What the heck does that mean?

[@gingercore69]

Im still watching it but i guess it will not come up in the video... I have a QUESTION: how much evidence have been found about interaction between egypt, sumerians and or ancient india? Be it war, commerce or whatever...

[@gingercore69]

Also, how old would be said evidence...

[@brianeibisch6025]

Interesting conversation in this event, especially Dr Maggie’s answers showing that beautiful academic restraint, other than religious total affirmation. The idea of 2 to 3 million people walking out of Egypt when demographers seem to suggest the whole global population at that time was roughly 50 million seems a long stretch. This would mean that 4 to 6 percent of the entirety of humanity, packed their bags, gave Pharaoh the finger and bugged out, seems, kindly putting it, implausible. Something may have happened, perhaps on not such great scale. The time distance between event and actual written account would seem to be about 6 to 7 hundred years maybe even 8 hundred, leaving plenty of scope for massive embellishment, especially considering, that the appropriate sciences and arts did not exist at that time. The story is really about God’s deliverance of people and persons from trials and oppression, other than the nitty gritty archaeological fact finding of a long march. The Alabamie Kid.

[@paulbrandel5980]

Well said @Brian Eibisch, its the moral story that's important. I couldn't have said it better Brian, cheers to you

[@luisrobertogomez7638]

I'd like to thank Digital Hammurabi besides for the great video, for the subtitles in Spanish as well. Dra. Bryson thank you too for your wonderful contribution!

[@jonc4719]

Maybe a family and some of their friends left Egypt and had a bad road trip, like a Griswald outing. Then because they could write, it became an embellished saga. Thanks for educated way of explinationing.

[@grandmastershek]

Holiday roooooaaaooooaad!

[@johnbennett757]

It was probably an oral tradition for a very long time before it was committed to writing.

[@nutyyyy]

I reckon this is somewhat close to what happened. The Exodus story seems cobbled together from cultural memory of Egyptian rule in Canaan. As well as possibly being influenced by stories of returning Canaanite slaves. The fact Moses has an Egyptian sounding name has always been interesting to me. Almost seems like a legendary figure that was later given an explanation. Because otherwise why not give him an israelite name.

[@loksterization]

Nonsense

[@N1976DL]

I enjoyed this video. Even as a lay person, I’ve been highly interested in this topic since I was a teen. It started out as an interest in confirming the Hebrew Bible. The first book I read, on this kind of topic, was “Pharoahs and Kings” by David Rohl. Fast forward to my forties, and I’m now an agnostic-atheist. Anyway, I can appreciate your Kent Hovind impression! Lol, to be even more accurate, just speak 3x as fast, because he is a fast-talker ;-)

[@john1425]

What happened to the giant mute button? How will you defend yourself against intruders????

[@DigitalHammurabi]

ROFL! We upgraded our equipment :D No more giant mute button, I'm afraid. Intruders will have to be fended off with a well-chosen selection of historical books instead!

[@MrSeadawg123]

to be honest I feel this would have gone better. If she started out saying the Exodus didn't happen as we have been taught. And lay out real evidence with pictures supporting data. IMHO

[@elanordeal2457]

But then that would be ad hoc reasoning

[@MrSeadawg123]

@@elanordeal2457 Has been awhile since I watched this. What I recall at this point. Is that it was pretty unremarkable. Lot of talk with no real evidence.

[@joycesky5041]

I’ve always had a difficult time with the description of the biblical Exodus and if it really took place at all. I think that if it really happened the way the Bible describes there should be an abundance of archeological artifacts with something as small as a piece of pottery but nothing has been found to validate the Biblical Exodus.The Bible describes the Israelites wondering in the desert for 40 years which I don’t believe because a trip that allegedly took 40 years should have only taken a few weeks up to a month at the most. Also within a 40 year period there would most definitely be some sort of archeological artifacts but there isn’t. I don’t believe the Bible description of the Exodus.

[@kellydalstok8900]

The fact that the Pharaoh isn’t named is quite telling, I think. If it was based on something that really happened, they surely would have named th man. As it is, it sounds more like all the other fairytales that just speak of “the king” or “the emperor” without mentioning a name.

[@jennifersilves4195]

Dr. Josh, I remember seeing your book on reading cuneiform when I was at a library… I want to say Boston, but I may have actually even borrowed it in Portland but not actually followed through. I love your openness and am all feels over your self-deprecation. I’m pulling for you with your health problems. ❤️❤️❤️

[@eretzproject5240]

Love this channel

[@RosaLuxembae]

Wouldn't the post-exilic period be a very late dating for the origin of the exodus narrative? Aren't the earliest parts of the earliest sources likely older than that?

[@fnln3011]

That awkward silence at the beginning of a recorded livestream. It's like you're not even supposed to be here yet even though the stream was in the past

[@gingercore69]

Fun fact, today i had to write an article about dance in ancient egypt... Conclusion was "since there is no video evidence, we can only asume how they danced from descriptions and depictions" probably it looked nothing like modern belly dancing as many people want to believe, but that doesnt make belly dancing less fun: buy this stuff"(yeah, i had to write this article for a website that sells egtprian stuff... I try to keep it real about the info, but being entretaining and selling the stuff is the real objective of my boss and its a job after all)

[@patrickneary8446]

I don't know anything about how they danced. But, i have noticed that they do not walk like Americans dance when that song comes on. Without the music video, people might pretend to be on hot sand.

[@eretzproject5240]

By the way there are more than one exodus traditions in the bible

[@sgitell]

Why does Dr. Bryson steadfastly avoid the terms “Canaan” and “Canaanite?”

[@RosaLuxembae]

The answer to that first question seems to stray into saying that because kings' propaganda said they cared for their people then it must have been true?

[@Retsewreed]

"Right?" - Dr Maggie Bryson

[@KipIngram]

58:20 - That is *exactly* what some people are saying. There's a group of people out there who take the position that *everything* in the Bible absolutely happened and happened in exactly the way it's stated. Now, I'm fine if scholars just choose to ignore those people (because they're definitely not easy to argue with because of how obstinately they're "dug in"), but they're out there.

[@chrish2629]

@1:19:1 There’s very little Egyptian records of failure or loss of wars by pharaohs. Such would be the case of losing one’s slave population, no? Perhaps not recorded?

[@Ken_Scaletta]

They recorded the Hyksos. Talking about what is "possible" is useless anyway. There still is not a shred of evidence for it.

[@CocoTheDiamond]

my criticism of this lecture is that the professors are being overly generous and kind and therefore people are misinterpreting what they're saying and i'm seeing comments "see dr josh says there's there's evidence!" bc he said there could be a kernel of a possible story... and won't just say outright that there's no evidence. but let's be clear: there's no evidence of a long term israelite settlement in egypt, there's no evidence israel was ever in egypt, there's no evidence israel was enslaved in egypt, there's no evidence of the exodus account whatsoever anywhere in egypt. and people have searched. it's not there. the professors are both being very generous and avoiding just calling exodus false. i'm not an egyotologist but i have studied this specifically as part of my masters thesis and there's just no evidence the book of exodus has any truth whatsoever except that egypt really is a place.

[@kedamafoe2240]

i have always consider "aperu" to be better translated to Gypsy, as it applied to nomadic people and refugees.

[@dudeman5303]

Gypsie is a derogatory term though isnt it?

[@dudeman5303]

Pretty sure thats a derogatory term for the romani people

[@russellmillar7132]

Also seen it spelled Habiru--more like hebrew

[@kedamafoe2240]

@@russellmillar7132 that would be the etymology

[@Ken_Scaletta]

@@kedamafoe2240 It was not an ethnic designation.

[@PC-lu3zf]

Great video. I don’t think the biblical exodus is real but some smaller event might have inspired the story.

[@loksterization]

The Biblical Exodus was real.

[@real.evidence]

@@loksterizationThe consensus of archaeologists is that there is insufficient evidence to support the biblical narrative of the exodus found in the Hebrew Bible.

[@loksterization]

@@real.evidence that's bullsh*t. You expect there to be archaeological "evidence" lying around, when most evidence from that time is under the ground, buried? These silly "experts" cannot invalidate the truth, handed down from generation to generation just because they try to do that, due to being an atheist generation -- who would accept many other historical claims with far less backing without question. It is the truth.

[@KidsandKittens217]

I realize you likely have a religious reason for needing to have the Biblical story of the Exodus be real. That need is understood. However, the weight of the evidence is overwhelming that it could not have occurred. For one thing, You can't have 2 million people moving across the countryside, camping every night, and leaving absolutely NO impact on the countryside, ESPECIALLY in a desert or semi-arid region. Deserts preserve evidence beautifully. They especially preserve coprolites, of which there would be MANY with that number of people going across a desert. The many locations mentioned in the Bible of being locations where the Israelites stopped have been very carefully combed for archaeological evidence. ALL of these locations show a lack of impact from a large group being there during a 1,000 year period that could have been proposed for the Exodus. There is NO evidence to support the idea of the Exodus, and there is tremendous evidence that says it could not have happened. So, your choice now is to either accept the evidence, and revise your hypothesis, or you can "Pretend" and tell yourself what your heart desires (just like Scientologists do when the facts don't fit their hypotheses). @@loksterization

[@JacoJordaan-yw2nh]

​@@loksterization Can you please present us with your evidence.

[@marzmarch]

Maggie is phenomenal.

[@baardhelmen8408]

To me it's hard to understand that evidens for something and lack of evidens for the oposit make people say: No i dont belive it! Amazing!

[@Devilock07]

Lol, that was a spot on Hovind impression, Dr. Bowen.

[@robertandrews1666]

Do you really think that a nation destroyed would brag about in their records?

[@aapp953]

Inspirational is all I can say this has been an excellent talk

[@IosifStalin2]

If I were 25 yrs younger, I would try to date Dr Bryson....brains and charm!!

[@charlesedwards5333]

well, you aren't 25 years younger you might consider that old guys hitting on young people comes off as creepy.

[@IosifStalin2]

@@charlesedwards5333 charming, not creepy

[@charlesedwards5333]

@@IosifStalin2 it doesn't matter what we old guys think. Old guy's charming is young professor's creep. Just say she is brilliant and thoughtful. That's the right praise for a scholar. Not I would have 'dated' (3 dates?) you back in the day. I know how you feel- we look out of our old eyes and everything looks the same. But it isn't.

[@IosifStalin2]

@CharlesEdwards you are reading your own faults into what I write. Oh ye! Cleanse that dirty mind of yours and let that young brilliant maiden bask in the glory of mine praise. She doth deserve it so!

[@dbarker7794]

What is the oldest one could be to date a 25-year-old? Is it 25? 25 and 6 months? As old as 26? Does the Bible cover this? ​@@charlesedwards5333

[@dynamic9016]

Brilliant Video.

[@Bluederrick1]

FYI: The oldest extra biblical reference to Yahweh is in the Sudan at the temple of Soleb from 1400BC written in a stone temple column of a Soleb Amenhotep III 1397-1358BV. It says ‘The land of the Shashu of Yahweh”.

[@fordprefect5304]

Yahweh was also a Canaanite god so why would there not be a reference. The Shasu/Shashu were a bedouin tribe.

[@Canaanitebabyeater]

@@fordprefect5304 correction, they were Bedouin tribes since 5 different Shasu were mentioned

[@fordprefect5304]

@@Canaanitebabyeater Thanks for the update

[@amazinggrace5692]

Very interesting discussion. A tiny suggestion … “right” is better than”um” or “uh” or “but um”, however it holds a similar place and I kept thinking if she says right one more time…

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

What was the music before _"Sweet Home Akkadia"_ ? Actually, I don't think it sounds anything like the Lynyrd Skynyrd song at all. Not even a variation or an inversion. I think to suggest so is grossly insulting to the composer of your theme music. {:-:-:}

[@skepticscircle1497]

Fantastic job with this! I’ve read a novel called finding Atlantis. Author was John Pelligrino. He covered a story about how the volcano 🌋 on Santorini erupted and the ash, clouds caused a famine. The Egyptians had to let the Habiru go. This was around 1600 bc

[@mnomadvfx]

Hyksos, not Habiru - different groups. Also the Hyksos were not "let go" - they were exiled by military force all the way to the edges of Canaan after the current Upper Egypt dynasty formed an uprising to take back Lower Egypt and drive the Hyksos out - thus beginning the New Kingdom period. There was no voluntary walk into the desert at all for them - those that were not killed outright were driven out at sword and spearpoint.

[@DragonsinGenesisPodcast]

And Die Hard is a Christmas movie. That’s not a matter of opinion. It’s a demonstrable fact.

[@jimdee9801]

So did the exodus happen or not

[@blusheep2]

There is quite a bit of internal and circumstantial evidence for the Exodus and some direct evidence of the conquest. Therefore, it is a judgment call. There is enough there to say something likely happened, but not enough there to confirm any specifics of the story.