Dior vs Hanfu Mamian Skirt, coincidence or appropriation?

I am going to break down the actual structure of the Chinese Mamian skirt that had its origin in the 11th/12th century, and evolved to be the exact type of skirt that has been revived in the last decade in China again with the rise of the Hanfu Movement.
The Dior skirt is definitely a 99% copy of the Chinese mamian skirt although at first look you might mistake it for a longer kilt. The structure of Kilt is quite different from that of the Chinese skirt, and the Dior skirt.

[@cielw5496]

It's not that Dior can't borrow the inspiration of traditional Chinese clothing, but he used it but said it was original, and said that it was derived from Korean clothing and had to apply for a patent

[@majlordag1889]

I thought this was just coincidence at first but now I see how the skirt is unique, it makes more sense why people are mad as they should be. Thanks for explaining

[@Hanfugirl]

Pleasure! Yea I was thinking initially that it might be just like the kilt and that the response was an overreaction, but after I saw the structure of the skirt and the back of it, I was certain that it is a very legitimate issue.

[@majlordag1889]

@@Hanfugirl Yeah, they clearly just copied it and think people are too dumb to notice.. They showed no respect too to it's history and cultural significance

[@user-hz5jr2bk3l]

Dior must admit that the latest piece uses the design of Chinese Ming Dynasty mamian skirt

[@Khftg]

In China, there must be a Chinese company called "Xior" that makes imitation products. China, the Kingdom of Imitations.

[@user-hz5jr2bk3l]

@@Khftg The country proud of instant noodles Shut up

[@user-hz5jr2bk3l]

@@Khftg South Korea will return all the things it has stolen before speaking

[@user-hz5jr2bk3l]

@@Khftg "Made in China is all over the world, not South Korea. Are you jealous of China's enormous productivity?"

[@user-hz5jr2bk3l]

@@Khftg 🤏

[@serenazhang3895]

Thaaaank you for standing out and this is completely insane they still don’t give a shit about it

[@angeliquewu8318]

A lot of people are pretty pissed man, and I completely understand. There’s a very problematic trend in the West of the erasure and denial of various Chinese cultural elements going on, and this just feels like another such incident. Then again, one of the designers behind this is apparently rumored to be Korean, so… those who understand naturally understand :)

[@bbyy6373]

Korea does like to steal cultures from different countries

[@Hanfugirl]

I think it is probably not personal. Dior under the new chief designer is no Maria Grazia Chiuri is totally a downhill slope. They appropriated Romanian ethnic dress without acknowledgement a few years back too. And they have also been copying street brands... with uninspiring designs and empty woke slogans. So... I'm just waiting to see how long this can last.

[@angeliquewu8318]

@@Hanfugirl Wow, so they have a history of appropriation! Good to know... I wonder if the anger of the vast Chinese market can wake them up a little.

[@justfloating9787]

@@angeliquewu8318 it won't... they'd simply cast this as a tiny mistake and believe me , the fame that Dior has will not be harmed one bit . People LOVE Dior clothes and products and that is not gonna stop just cuz they appropriated traditional costumes . It has happened before and it will happen again .

[@angeliquewu8318]

@@justfloating9787 I understand your perspective, but also, the Chinese market can be pretty powerful due to their purchasing power. This thing is going viral rn, so my hope is that this will allow people to band together and threaten Dior. So far, they’ve appropriated Romanian clothing and one Indian designer’s clothing before, but none of those markets have nearly power of the Chinese one.

[@user-jy3ln9gg3o]

补充接缝，我觉得非常疑惑的一点：迪奥裙每片的用料很少，可以直接用整布、完全不需要拼布接缝。但它拼了，且接缝是在合抱褶正中间。这种做法常出现在​现代汉​​商家制作6米摆时，即便文物有接缝，也少有在正中间的。 我大胆猜测，迪奥（设计师）是拿着现代汉服商家的马面裙回去打版制作的。​

[@Hanfugirl]

哇，你怎么看到的？！？！我没机会看实物，dior的细节我没看到。我生活在一个没有四季的国家，这里没有秋装，o(︶︿︶)o

[@Hanfugirl]

不过他们肯定没找任何文物资料，甚至马面裙的历史都不会知道。因为他们得做功课。他们如果真的那么上心做就不会这样了。

[@luceafarul579]

是啊，我开始以为是苏格兰kilt，如果Dior用整布，后面也是pleate，就没事了。

[@leeya6514]

文化可以交流和借鑑，但是不能隨意挪用之後，標註爲“dior原創”。 他大可以像海盜爺一樣，大方說自己借鑑中國文化，中國人還會很高興。而非dior現在這樣用了中國文化之後說自己原創。 就像我們做各種各樣的西裝，但是我們不會說西裝是自己原創，也不會把西裝改名字爲中裝。這就是這裡面的區別。你可以用這些東西，但是你不能用了這些東西之後說這些都是你自己創造的。

[@Hanfugirl]

对！！海盗爷是真爱，这个是金屋藏娇。。连个明媒正娶的名份都不给。。。太不厚道了。

[@Khftg]

Do Chinese deserve to protest? Even at this time, Dior's fake products are being made in China.

[@Hanfugirl]

@@Khftg do two wrongs make one right?

[@Anonymous------]

​@@Hanfugirl "Dior" sounds like "大盜". 😂

[@byivylu]

Thank you for speaking out!!

[@hanfu_eileen]

The first picture you showed is Song dynasty's 两片裙/旋裙 Two-Piece Skirt/Swirl Skirt, and indeed, Ming dynasty's 马面裙 Horse Face Skirt evolved from Song dynasty's Two-Piece Skirt/Swirl Skirt and 百迭裙 Hundred Pleats Skirt.

[@Hanfugirl]

Yes I said that too in the video.

[@qingyang-gp3qt]

1. This is not Dior silhouette, this is Chinese Mamianqun. Well-preserved Ming and Qing Mamianqun can be seen in many museum collections. As Chinese, I ask @Dior to respect my culture and STOP #culturalappropriation 2. What distinguishes Mamianqun is that it is sewed together by two pieces of fabric only at front waistband, leaving openings at front and back, a unique Chinese innovation that allows women to ride horse astride. The Dior skirt demonstrates every characteristic of Mamianqun. 3. The ongoing Hanfu movement in China has revived Mamianqun. Similar outfits have been worn by young Hanfu supporters many years before Dior released its Fall22 collection. Thus, in no ways can Dior claim this skirt or the outfit to be its origin

[@emilywei9485]

#ChineseCulture##mamianqun##迪奥##Dior##汉服#CulturalAppropriation 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 Dior has stolen Chines skirt culture .How shameless!!!It is A thief!!😡😡😡Why can‘t Dior admit the skirt's style came from China???

[@sweetorange2455]

Dior used to copied and take other cultural stuff and said it’s their design. Some country do complaint but they ignore it. What we do now is boycott them don’t buy their products anymore.

[@Hanfugirl]

I know it sounds defeatist but... I was never gonna buy Dior to begin with.. 😆 so they didn't really lose any business technically fr those who were upset over this.. we're just one of those naysayers to them.

[@jiajialee8545]

谢谢你的发声，拒绝文化盗用，迪奥必须给个说法

[@Hi_ImCat]

Thank you, I'm studying digital art, I really liked the story behind the clothing. Very beautiful, delicate and with an air of richness ❤❤❤

[@nineq4287]

It's no doubt that mamian skirt from China

[@Avotts]

Thank you for sharing. I think the style and drape of the one with pleats is stunning. I really want 1. Ive been looking for a plus size pattern and cant find one.

[@user-zi9fz6rn3p]

We hope dior can explain this design.

[@pepsichen9684]

搜搜 梨花女子大学，这场秀就是韩国人在后面搞鬼

[@survanay9171]

Thanks very much!!

[@cielw5496]

love your video, thank you so much for doing this!!

[@StarOnTheWater]

A wrap skirt is pretty universal, it is one of the most basic pieces of clothing. However this was probably historically inspired. The way I look at it if I as a German person take something from medieval German fashion I am still taking from another culture. Just another culture in time, not in space.

[@user-im7nt1hc7u]

Thank you for the video！

[@xg1802]

谢谢发声，支持！

[@rujingyao4122]

It can be used for cultural reference, but please explain the source.

[@Anonymous------]

Europeans copied the concept of Chinese wood block and movable types printing press but called theirs Glutenburg Press an original invention. When they are confronted about theirs is similar to Chinese printing press, they say that was a Japanese invention. 😂

[@musicandbooklover-p2o]

You do know things can be - ARE - invented in more than one place. Gutenberg MOVEABLE printing press IS NOT the same as the Chinese printing and KZbin has an excellent CHINESE video on exactly that showing all the differences- including the Japanese printing which was different again. Well worth watching if you actually have an interest in technology and ow it has developed in different places around the world at different, or even the same, eras in history.

[@Anonymous------]

@@musicandbooklover-p2o They are the same concept! Modern manufacturing of papers is different from ancient Chinese paper making by hand, but modern manufacturing is based on the ancient concept! Without the invention of paper making there would be no modern paper manufacturing by machines. Same like the modern steel manufacturing is based on ancient Chinese invention of blast furnace, without it there would be no modern mass production of steel. There are many other modern technologies are based on ancient Chinese technologies.

[@user-kx5xc8nd4b]

Against Dior ❤

[@princecoffee2349]

This is mamigun. Chinese history books are full of references to the Mamigun coming from the Korean peninsula and and became popular, which was banned by the Ming emperor to preserve tradition. (明憲宗)成化中, 馬尾裙盛行. 此制始於朝鮮國, 流入京師, 京師人亦漸習爲之, 閣臣萬安, 冬夏不脫. (查繼佐) (罪唯錄) 卷4 (冠服志) During the Seonghwa years (1465-1478), mamiguns were popular. It originated in Joseon and came to capital. The people of capital gradually became accustomed to wearing them, and Man-an, a cabinet minister, never took them off, even in winter and summer. 後亦多畜高麗美人, 大臣有權者, 輒以此遺之, 京師達官貴人, 必得高麗女, 然後爲名家. 自至正以來, 宮中給事使令, 大半高麗女, 以故四方衣服、靴帽、器物, 皆仿高麗, 擧世若狂. (續資治通鑒) 卷214, (元紀) 32 The Empress of the Yuan Dynasty was also from Goryeo, and most of her courtiers were also from Goryeo. For this reason, clothing, shoes, hats, and utensils everywhere imitated Goryeo, and the whole world seemed to go crazy. 馬尾裙始於朝鮮國, 流入京師, 京師人買服之, 未有能織者. 初服者, 惟富商, 貴公子, 歌妓而已, 以後武臣多服之, 京師始有織賣者. 於是無貴無賤, 服者日盛. 至成化末年, 朝官多服之者矣. 大抵服者, 下體虛奓, 取觀美耳. 閣老萬公安, 冬夏不脫. 宗伯周公洪謨, 重服二腰, 年幼侯伯駙馬, 至有以弓弦貫其齊者. 大臣不服者, 惟黎吏侍淳一人而已. 此服妖也, 弘治初始有禁例. (菽園雜記) 卷10 Mamigun originated in the Joseon Dynasty and was introduced to the capital, where people bought and wore them, but there were no weavers who could weave them. It was considered immodest and was banned in the early Hongqi (1488-1505) reign. 宮衣新尚高麗樣, 方領過腰半臂裁. 連夜內家爭借看, 爲曾著過禦前來. - (張昱), (宮中詞) 自至正以來, 宮中給事使令, 大半爲高麗女. 以故, 四方衣服鞋帽器物, 皆依高麗樣子. 此關系一時風氣, 豈偶然哉. (權衡), (庚申外史) 用紫色棕藤縛帽, 而制靴作高麗國樣, 皆一時所尚. (陶宗儀), (南村輟耕錄) 卷28

[@user-dg9tc3tb5f]

顶

[@afobricks5670]

As you said... it's a VERY SIMPLE design... people came up with it hundreds of years ago. So it's no surprise someone at Dior had the same idea now without ever having seen a mamianqun...

[@Hanfugirl]

It is a simple design that took hundreds of years of evolution to get to the point where dior copied. So... unless Dior existed for hundred of years.. unlikely. Come on... the burden of proof is on Dior since they have not shown any prove how they came up with this design one fine day out of the blue. In fact the way the pleats were two directional (I recently saw an even closer photo of the dior skirt) and that is 100% the same as the mamian skirt.. if you copy your next door neighbour and got all the same qns right and the same qns wrong, I'm pretty sure your teachers gonna say you copied the person. Esp if you have a history of doing so. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[@Hanfugirl]

Please don't be that guy who look at Jackson pollock's painting and say.. oh that's so simple, I could have done that. The fact that no other culture has that, and in your thousands of years of evolution nothing like that came up... and suddenly an underpaid, highly stressed and exploited designer in Dior skipped thousands of years of evolution and came up with it.. is extremely unlikely. Of course if the designer harboured memories from his/her past life as a Ming era Chinese aristocrat woman... then maybe it can be excused.

[@afobricks5670]

@@Hanfugirl are you kidding me? Jackson Pollock's work is rubbish and my 3yo daughter "created" many works similar to his, just like ALL her kindergarten friends. And ALL over the world people came up with pleaded skirts... times and times again, no big deal either!

[@Hanfugirl]

@@afobricks5670 lolll thank u for confirming my doubts. I knew tt I'm never wrong.

[@afobricks5670]

@@Hanfugirl you're clearly wrong about the Dior dress that's what I confirmed.

[@hanguortadie380]

Dior plagiarize Chinese horse face skirt

[@fangyingmo651]

Dior，stop culture appropration

[@user-sy7pl2fi5v]

Dior MUST BE APOLOGIZE OF THIS TIME AND STOP DO IT AGAIN!😡😡😡

[@Khftg]

Do Chinese deserve to protest? 🤣🤣 Even at this time, Dior's fake products are being made in China.

[@user-sy7pl2fi5v]

The Korean not qualified to judged anyone for stealing! In the all history, Korea is dependency of China or Japan, Now all Korea history is stealing from China. everything! Even Korea's constitution is writing with Chinese. Every building that have some history in Korea use Chinese name it. So SHUT UP!

[@daphne_4861]

@@Khftg 呵呵^_^,那又怎样？关你什么事？

[@Hanfugirl]

Sorry to intrude, but I believe Koreans also buy a lot of fake products... I think the rational thing is to see the two as separate--two wrongs don't make one right. Just because others do the wrong thing doesn't mean you get a free pass for doing wrong things too. otherwise everyone should not go to jail for killing someone else.

[@emilywei9485]

#ChineseCulture##mamianqun##迪奥##Dior##汉服#CulturalAppropriation 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳 Dior has stolen Chines skirt culture .How shameless!!!It is A thief!!😡😡😡Why can‘t Dior admit the skirt's style came from China???

[@AkiyaVaquaz]

☾💟 👍🏻🔔 The way you do the work gracefully - I am very proud of you. Thanks for going through the trouble and it's worth it. You have the absolute power to rise above any situation or struggle and transform yourself into the strongest and most beautiful version of yourself ever. Congratulations and best of luck for your promising future. Great job, you are amazing, you are important, you are special, you are unique, and you are valuable! Never give up, go ahead, fight for your dreams, everything will get better for you, I wish you good luck. You have my full support 🎁

[@hwater6909]

Thank you for speaking out!!