Disciples of Tzeentch Battletome Review - Warhammer Weekly 09282022

[@tomcatminis]

No mention of the Dawnbreaker Crusade/cities warband shown in the gnarlwood concept image at the bottom of the Underworlds: Gnarlwood announce article. Surely Tom was excited by that! It is how they teased the nethermaze skaven and DoK warbands with the nethermaze announcement article.

[@malickabsy573]

Vince, I usually listen while driving so I appreciate that you make sure abilities are read/explained while you discuss them

[@daniilosudin290]

We forgot to cover the Underworlds warband, so I will quickly do it in the comment :D Vortemis and Eyes of the Nine might be the third most improved unit(s) in the book. From totally unplayable to actually decent. Vortemis is basically a foot magister, so if going for a casting castle with several magisters he can be one of the magisters easily. His only real difference to normal magister is the spell. Easy to cast spell that gives a command point that only he can spend. It is very useful as you can spend it on anything from rally to redeploy, to all out attack/defense. In some circumstances it might be better than the spawn creating spell, in other circumstances it is worse. But if you have 1-2 normal magisters, this ensures you won't run out of spells to cast. Eyes of the Nine are very cheap wounds per point if you say that Vortemis is 120 pts like a foot magister. They are basically 10 wounds for 45 points. They have some shooting, which will not do much and some combat, which will not do much, but considering what you are paying for them it actually is efficient haha. Note: the Tzaangor that is part of this unit is the only tzaangor in the book that has the beak wound on 5+ still for some reason :D

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

“Tyler had an accident” Me, aloud: “Oh shoot, hope he’s okay” Me, cynically: “He sprained his wrist painting, didn’t he?”

[@cameronthompson1943]

I love it! Gaunt summoner shoots up into enemy territory and suddenly blue, beaked monstrosities come pouring out of each of his robe sleeves

[@Farmers-Almanac]

ive only ever played stormcast. but recently decided Tzeench is gonna be my next army. this video and battletome came at the right time to help me decide what to buy first

[@TakaRai7]

Not sure what part of the algorithm blessed me to find this channel but Im glad it did

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad to have you along on the journey, lots of content ready for you and hope you come back. :)

[@thomaskunz8553]

I like the Burning chariot as a mobile way to get the +1 Attacks buff in flamer builds where you play 9+ flamers cause getting angles when you need them with 9" flying wind socks from my experience can be quite hit or miss if you dont have a bit of grease in the wheels to make sure things line up well.

[@davidcampbell621]

I thought it was wierd that the gaunt summoner lost the arcanite keyword, but as you guys went through the book I noticed he was placed at the start of the arcanite stuff, separated from the daemon heroes. Seems like it might've been another keyword mistake based on placement in the book.

[@VinceVenturella]

Interesting, that would be a turn of events.

[@thebryceroy6155]

*waits patiently for the full reveal of Sexy Rat* Wonderful show, as usual! Thanks to you, your co-host(s), and your guests for continuing to inspire, Vince!

[@starslayer2438]

As a fellow Fyreslayers player and Magmadroth enthusiast, I applaud Tom's clever conversion of his mounted Runefather! Funny aside: I did pretty much the opposite. I converted my mounted Runesmiter by putting him into the saddle like the other Magmadroth riders, instead of onto his usual platform.

[@sycho331]

Great show as always! I'd argue Kairos is even better in Legion now since he's bringing so many offensive spell options. Now to see what happens to Legion in December...

[@ageofsigmarlistlab1706]

All-star cast for this one!!

[@goingmadbyyou]

Does the spell Fold Reality work on pink horros that are using the split and split again? Because the split rule states that the pink and blue horrors are removed but not counted as slain and the spell fold reality states return slain models. So basically it just comes down to bringing back flamers or screamers?

[@daniilosudin290]

Well, some rules can kill the horrors without them being split (because they only split when you allocate wounds and mortal wounds), e.g. gargant nets or broken coherency. In those cases you can bring back the pink/blue horrors with rally or fold reality back because they were slain, but of course those models have not been split. You can also fold reality the burning chariot units (if only they were bettter).

[@VinceVenturella]

It does not except in the corner cases above.

[@thesinginggeneral612]

Thanks for restoring my faith in my favorite army!... it's been looking a bit bleak for Tzeentch from other reviews. Really thorough and my new go to channel for AoS!

[@DarrenBonenberg]

Great show. That Darkoath shaman dude for Underworlds would make an outstanding Ghur Battlemage.

[@glorakobsectactics7791]

For incarnate + magister combo for getting the incarnate to level 3 why not just charge the spellportal that you'll inevitably be casting as tzeentch anyway ?

[@thesinginggeneral612]

Quick question... can you cast the same warscroll spell with different units on the same turn? Thought you can only cast a spell once? Just wondering how you stack the Kairic acolytes Gestalt Sorcery spell for plus 1 rend.

[@VinceVenturella]

Normally, you cannot, but in this case, the ability specifically says that you are allowed to cast it as many times as you want, breaking the normal rule.

[@LakeyWargames]

Great show as always guys! Didn't really know much of Tzeentch as I don't see them alot in my local gaming groups but your break downs and talk throughs always make it easy to listen too and understand even when not too knowledgeable on a faction! :) Surprised I never picked these guys up myself... I'm a massive fan of shooting and magic with neat tricks thrown in. Will have to see how many left over pennies we got left after the new LRL drop. ^.^

[@JohnnyH5]

Just wondering if Kairos is still good in the Legion of the First Prince?

[@VinceVenturella]

I have seen opinions in both directions, but I think he could still have value.

[@robertviscomi8199]

I love you. Your stuff. Your voice is Aweosme for this. Your knowledge is amazing. Now. Make it perfect. Add time stamps. Do it. DO IT

[@VinceVenturella]

They are there now. :)

[@robertviscomi8199]

@@VinceVenturella GOAT

[@Khornul]

I think that the only play with the Changeling is to use them to cast the free Endless Spell deep into the opponents deploy zone.

[@The_Revanchist]

You can't, unfortunately. The Changeling comes in at the end of your first Movement Phase, but Arcane Armies is before the first turn begins. I feel like the best way is likely to just ignore Arch-Deceiver entirely, which feels rough. At that point, it's still a 2 Cast/Dispel Daemon Wizard that can sometimes apply an additional -1 to a nearby enemy.

[@Khornul]

@@The_Revanchist Oh... Ok, then I don't get the Changeling haha 😅

[@The_Revanchist]

@@Khornul I wouldn't feel bad. GW doesn't seem to either!

[@kirisute1337]

Loved the Review :) what miniature is the verminlord vince showed in the hobby time section? need to find it

[@VinceVenturella]

It’s on my mini factory, if you just search Rat it’s there

[@Galahad727]

Pick of the week, which I think is a must watch, is the newest KZbin WarCry content creator TheSaltySea’s new video, ”Does your dice suck? Does it matter?” Check it out, I think it’s a big deal for competitive play!

[@eatem1978]

Thanks for the video. Very helpful

[@VinceVenturella]

Glad it was helpful!

[@thomasbackhouse2252]

One thing I don't understand is the taking 19 pinks and 1 blue. How does that work?

[@VinceVenturella]

When you take a unit of horrors, you can choose what is in the unit. It's 250 if it contains any pinks, but it doesn't have to contain ALL pinks, you can mix it in any way. By having 1 blue, you aren't battleline anymore.

[@thomasbackhouse2252]

@@VinceVenturella thanks for the reply mate 👍. That's makes sense now and is amazing haha.

[@robmorris8231]

Whats the thoughts on what our 3 battleline choices will end up being in most lists?

[@VinceVenturella]

Hard to say, but I think you’ll see screamers and Tzanngor a fair amount.

[@nanideckard]

Pinks, pinks and pinks in that specific order.

[@voice9893]

Hey Vince could you implement like a short Tierlist at the end or list build for each faction? I wanna start with tzeencht and k have probably watched thr Video Like 3 Times still ist hard for me to evaluate which Units are Must have. Blue scripes, Fluxmaster, curseling is what i got.

[@evilgiraffe123]

how do the tzaangors get the extra attack on the charge?

[@VinceVenturella]

It's on the warscroll, it's for their beaks.

[@joshuaparks9274]

@@VinceVenturella I was wondering this as well. Is it a rule in their warscroll in the new book? Because it doesn't seem to be on their warscroll on the AoS app.

[@VinceVenturella]

@@joshuaparks9274 Yes, it's on their new warscroll.

[@mogwaiman6048]

Gnarlspirit Pack are chaos because they're Darkoath. But they seem like Untamed Beasts 2.0 so I find their aesthetic repetitive. The models look great though.

[@DannyWadeson]

Respectfully, Tom has some interesting insights but can be a bit...forceful in his application of them.

[@ThomasLyons]

Yep!

[@zackholloway324]

Hey I may have missed it but did you guys discuss how to integrate s2d units? Tzeentch is my favorite god and I have a lot of S2D models. If I could pick up a few more hero's and some skyfires that might be cool.

[@VinceVenturella]

I mentioned some chaos knight and warriors, I think there is play, especially after the new book comes later this year.

[@takeovermars]

My goodness I missed these! I stopped watching because I wasnt having fun with AoS and your show made me wish AoS was better. New slaanesh book has me hyped and im doing a 16 hour drive so I'm binging all the episodes I missed!

[@rabidwhale]

Tommmm! No! No getting rid of Seraphon! Haha

[@angelicdespot2735]

Thanks for doing this show. Sounds pretty disappointing to me. I loved what they did with the Nurgle book - felt they did a good job of creating a fun play style that reflected the army. I feel like they haven't known what to do with Tzeentch for a long time. Change =/= fire. Some shooting (with fire) is fine, but they should take a leaf out of the Fantasty Flight Games 'Chaos in the Old World'. Tzeentch is supposed to be about magic, trickery, plots, intelligence and scheming cults. I think the mortal stuff is particularly poorly served by this book (and previous ones). You could easily imagine taking a mortal Nurgle, Khorne or Slaanesh army. Okay the rules on the last two may need some hefty updating, but they've got lots of interesting stuff. I want Tzeentch mortals to be more than just weedy cannon fodder that shoot fireballs. Most of the fun stuff in this book appears to be the daemons. I'm also not sure that Tzeentch needed to be a fast book. Slaanesh has a lot of speed. I imagine Tzeentch to be able to play a positioning game due to teleporting or popping out of hiding, not by having everything able to fly all over the place. They've produced some good books lately, that really got what the faction was about. This one sounds like a miss to me.

[@VinceVenturella]

All fair, I can see that PoV.

[@nicksacomano2608]

Vince do you think the new book is a good idea for new players as a starting army?

[@VinceVenturella]

Tzeentch is always a little complex, but it could be a fine first choice.

[@Kralandaddict]

A point against the blue scribes is that if you use the 2+ ability, it doesn’t generate fate points so 160 for a 1 cast wizard that doesn’t generate fate point is tough (no casting roll = no fate points)

[@VinceVenturella]

It's a good point.

[@tofathi195]

Thanks!

[@franekwrobel1449]

Tom once mentioned he has a display quality Black Coach. Im in a proces of building one myself, can you show us your Black Coach Tom? I didnt too many interesting Coaches by far.

[@VinceVenturella]

Hit him up on Twitter, I believe he has shared it there.

[@cmleibenguth]

Been reined in a bit Going to be a lot of Cult Demagogues and Masters of Magic Maybe more lil birbs, still at least 1 big birb Maybe I was right to paint up 5 Knight-Incantors =P (3 from Soul Wars boxes, 1 from the magazine, 1 from Stormsire's Cursebreakers... A pseudo 6th if I proxy the Knight-Arcanum as a more useful Knight-Incantor) Edit: while I can see how faction specific battle tactics and grand strategies can hurt the game, I disagree that the non-battletome ones do. They are one of the main defining features separating 3.0 from 2.0, and ultimately a good thing. Not solely just sitting in circles on the board to rack up points regardless of battle.

[@acrylicchemist1432]

Chicago Open Event Staff confirmed the new tome is not in play. (And the community rejoiced)

[@cleaveandrun284]

Maybe arcane tome is going away with the new winter season? -me trying to make sense of GW choices 😂

[@skylerjelly8116]

...Vampirates wasn't that far off for the rumor engine.

[@rmulshine]

You can soul seeker move the foot summoner

[@VinceVenturella]

You can, but then he’s even weaker, and costs basically the same with the ES figures in.

[@rmulshine]

@@VinceVenturella but he has a boat!

[@bartek_ewertowski]

No clue why you think Skyfires are suddenly good. They were a crap shooting unit with decent damage when fighting first in melee with rerolls, but now they have slightly less crappy shooting but awful melee damage. Average shooting damage now is 2.52 or 3.11 with AOA in shooting against a 4+ save. Been using them since 2018 in BoC and this new scroll is a massive downgrade for the same points. Only significant buff is 4+ save, but they are just in a place where they are just as expensive and not actually good at anything anymore. Skyfires were already considered overcosted for years...

[@VinceVenturella]

My honest answer is because they delivered for me with the new ability. The fact you can't save stack against them is absolutely huge. It means it's very easy for them to always deliver maximal damage and when combined with destiny dice and even some other small buffs they just put through the right damage.

[@bartek_ewertowski]

​@@VinceVenturella That's fair. I used them for years and at my last event people didn't bother save-stacking against them once they realized how little damage they do. Are you Destiny Dicing the hit roll to 6?

[@VinceVenturella]

@@bartek_ewertowski I would generally DD one of the hit rolls to 6, then roll out the other 6, with the fatemaster near and AoA so we're on 3/2/-1/d3

[@bartek_ewertowski]

​@@VinceVenturella Is there a reason that you are using them in units of 6 rather than 2x3 for more shots?

[@VinceVenturella]

@@bartek_ewertowski Sure, 6 is better. More concentrated ability to be buffed. THey can all benefit from AoA easier and it's easier to keep them within range of the Fatemaster. They can also survive much better to be rallied back.

[@mathiasikit]

Am I wrong to assume that Petty Vengeance 250 points Pink horrors is still the worst unit of the game for it's cost? Really sad they did not adressed it.

[@VinceVenturella]

Nope, you’re right.

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@niilofriden4465]

.

[@xfishburgx]

don't love the energy of these invited guests

[@gregorleishman]

Wow bottom left guy trying too hard and so up himself 😢 not a good podcast guest