Dishonest Tekken

Good old fashioned, honest Tekken.
memes: / massivezug
#Tekken #FGC
Try and have a good time (-:

[@Goteiii]

The cheese is amplified when you play a real person. Knowing Lee's f2, 1 is duckable doesn't render it null and void. Sure, if your opponent spams it you will duck it but if they use it every once in a while, while doing other stuff that require your attention, you will not duck unless you've ground it so much that you can do it on autopilot. And that's the worst feeling in the world. Knowing how to manage a cheap move is but not doing it anyway. It's not just a "knowledge" check it's usually a muscle memory check too.

[@neopolitan9156]

This I know what the move looks like but sometimes I just cannot react fast enough same thing for Kings forward 2,1

[@Guitar-Dog]

F21s are hard to duck, always hate it when I let king lee Shaheen get away with it

[@thatredcomet]

I have seen Qudans not ducking Lee's f+2, 1. Two hit strings are hard to deal with unless you are actively scouting for them or used in a specific set up that you can recognize.

[@ChristopherWaddelow]

I think it is important to remember that certain things aren't necesarrily meant to have a hard counter. For that move in particular a opponent can choose when, and when not to finish the string making it potentially more dangerous. So it isn't necesarrily a clean, cut and dry situation, and I certainly wouldn't call it cheese. It is something that everybody has happen to them, and a part of the game. Pros drop things, don't punish correct, or have misinputs. It is a part of the experience of fighting your opponent, not just fighting the game mechanics. Now there are certain moves that can be counter with a near 100% success rate, and those are known the dumpster tier moves. And I personally wish they would remove all the unnecesarry moves that are only a knowledge check. But that is just my opinion.

[@jasonkennedy6844]

Lee's f2,1 is also great because it's hit confirmable. And using only f2 to see if they duck or respect you is also a good idea.

[@reirei_tk]

I'm a simple man, I see Oscar, I click the video.

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

Same

[@riskybitness]

My original main before I could be bothered to learn the game.

[@randodox8375]

Neuron activation

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

@@riskybitness she was my first secondary after i got better with my main. i don't play her as much cause I play other characters but I still use her from time to times

[@arsalrana9568]

Same...

[@TheShadowx0]

Its good that you mentioned that online its possible to climb very far with knowledge checks alone. This falls off so heavily once you start entering locals. Its very scary to throw out moves with weaknesses as people at locals are far more knowledgeable. Its also the main reason why i like local play a lot more compared to online

[@2J_mochiron]

I clicked for Asuka, stayed for the good content

[@conenubi701]

You're going to get me playing PSO again with all these little easter eggs lmao

[@riskybitness]

The more I learn about this game the more impressed I am by the incredible depth and balance. There really is an answer for every question, and knowing the answer is at the core of what Tekken is. There are sometimes multiple answers but I think the goal is to find the best answer and apply it consistently. I'm only just beginning to make a real effort at understanding the game and it really is a process. Last night I spent some time in practice mode then had an online match with an Armor King player who had incredible movement and really helped me practice. After a week of losing every single round when I played online, I am finally beginning to learn how to control the pace and what tools to use in what situation. I'm still a far cry away from being a good Tekken player, but my fundamentals are getting better and I think I am beginning to understand the game.

[@painted_crimson]

As an ethical gamer, I would NEVER condone dishonest Tekken.

[@J.T.G.]

Oh shit! My boy Zog put out a another video!!!!

[@Messatsu01]

Marduk is cheaper than water.

[@OsirisMawn]

4:20 tekken has such good animation I just realized it all over again when I saw this part

[@XNDL44]

I stopped playing Tekken 7, but damn I missed these videos

[@avoidthevo1d]

Or just pick a cheap shit and enjoy your Ruler ranks or even higher without gaining ANY knowledge yourself.

[@Kilesfactor]

Who needs a knowledge check when they don’t get to play the game :D

[@evangel1460]

People don't like "Dishonest Tekken" because it's boring in comparison to what the game can be about. You can enjoy Tekken purely based on fundamentals and movement with interesting punishment options and just have a blast (When movement works in this game, that is). However, compare doing that to have something spam the same boring "knowledge check string" and it becomes uninteresting. There's a reason why players have a preference for fighting Mishima's or more "honest" characters cause they can simply do things like fundamentals vs fundamentls and mixups vs "oh man this person is gonna use this 1 string that has 2~3 enders and they are very specific to counter them and if I don't I can lose easily." Some things of course should be weird or character specific, but when you have the garbage that is Nina strings or Marduk tackle, dishonest tekken becomes really shitty really fast.

[@friggen_roylty4368]

This really just sounds like players just need to get better.

[@httohot]

@@friggen_roylty4368 bro this is a video game. Its about fun. Yes you have to hit the lab and train but dishonest tekken is different. It requires muscle memory training which means hours of not fun training all in order to stop someone from using an easy to spam move I put in hours of training while all you do is press a few buttons. That is not a good trade off and makes people look to other games. Why get good at Tekken and not have fun when I can play another game and have fun WHILE getting good...... I play strive instead of Tekken because I dont have time to dedicate to git gud and not have fun. Labbing combos is fun. Spending hours labbing muscle memory for cheese is not fun....Not to mention that the dlc characters are hidden behind a paywall in training mode....

[@UnknownFeng]

Spamming the same move is a knowledge check? I guess closing out the match right before I lose my rank is an internet connection check.

[@friggen_roylty4368]

Yes. Or do you like getting worked into a Jin parry or Law dragon tail every 3 seconds? Lol

[@sonicfreak1111]

Babe get up, Massive Zug uploaded another banger.

[@IAmEnormous]

Ultimately it's about your goals as a player: reinforce bad habits for wins, or long term improvement. New players aren't good enough to switch on the fly between 'cheese' and 'fundamentals', so once they find something that gets them wins, they don't know how to let go, and it really ends up biting them in the ass later. Some people are fine with that, but personally I tried to avoid it as much as possible and I _still_ have some low level habits that come out when I auto-pilot.

[@Shlompskii]

A massive dub for this Massive Zug

[@Moustard434]

everyboody chillin until a king starts doing cd muscle buster

[@dixonhall447]

funny marduk tackle go brrrrrr

[@MinoComics]

Agree. There are few broken things like the Marduk tackle 🤣

[@BullC6]

Muscle memory is so important. Just because I have the knowledge doesn't mean I can negate something. I launch punish -14 moves with geese on reaction easy but I can't launch punish -14 moves with Bryan (single attacks). I just don't react fast enough to buffer f n b input for Jet upper in time. And There are so many times when I kick myself for not ducking the highs in mid high strings like king, AK, Lee, Shaheen, Miguel f2,1. Issue is that when done once in a while, they are so fast that it's almost impossible to duck on reaction for me especially online. I have to be actively looking for and anticipated a high in a string. Same goes for stepping anna and nina low high mid string that plus 1 on block or stepping second hit of leo's b1,4.

[@arilist5987]

As a new player, I personally really dislike these knowledge checks. Learning Tekken is already extremely difficult, so getting punished for things like not knowing how to break grabs is really frustrating. I could spend hours labbing, but sometimes I feel like I'd rather just play a different game.

[@georgegkoumas5026]

Yeah, I hate King for that even though I know he is a hard character (well at least at high level because at low level King players are just cheesers who get away with free wins out of spamming grabs and a hopkick combo, maybe a homing mid or a low spam if they know that many moves). If a player uses a grab and doesn't frequently spam mids but lows and highs instead then I recommend ducking under it and punishing, meybe do a df to get a low parry to if they decide to throw a low. Especially if you play Kazuya (I don't know much about other characters' WS launchers) you can get decent damage and Oki out of it, which makes them fear using a grab (or low in case of low parrying) again and lets you clear your mind and play calm.

[@georgegkoumas5026]

Also crouch jabs are good against people who spam multi level jab moves like a high high low mid, high high mid mid, etc... If it starts with high and you fear that you cannot punish it or it is safe for them on block, then just interrupt with a crouch jab.

[@wolfgangrecordings]

you know you can duck throws right? and they made generic throws much easier to break in t7's more recent seasons too, since you can break a 1 or 2 throw by pressing *either* 1 or 2 now instead of it being specific to the left or right side. it's just like memorizing strings or move properties (for a very big cast too), you'll learn and remember what the breaks are for characters' command throws as you play and get hit by them

[@diddlenfiddle7311]

Yea I think it was fine back in the days of around 20 characters but now with there being 50 it's quite overwhelming. Alot of the time the animation is honest but not always. Armour King's giant swing has a 1+2 throw animation but it's a 1 break, that to me is complete horseshit.

[@arilist5987]

@@diddlenfiddle7311 Yeak King and Armor King’s throws really confuse me. But you’re right about the issue with like 50 characters. Every character has some busted string that you need to duck for part of it and stand guard for part of it. Just makes learning the game overwhelming

[@leoneyedis2671]

I needed this buff. Thank breh.

[@Davide-bx3js]

I can't understand how people are consistent with throw breaks, it's hard in the lab and a nigthmare online

[@KNGDDDE]

You'll be better off just recognizing when they will come. I just don't have the reaction speed to break them even when I wait for one lol but but when I think they'll do one I start ducking or legit wait for it. It also depends on the mids, stage position, etc. You'll get a 'feel for it eventually and someday you'll be able to break off the animation itself.

[@oreowithurea5018]

Just keep playing even without hoping in lab to practice throw breaks, you'll eventually start to break them more and more.

[@elvararchfeld9734]

0:03 "when it comes to farting games"

[@Curratum]

I'm 37 and am exclusively playing KoF, SF, T7 and SC6 offline, and still having fun. Why am I on this channel though? Well, because even the normal AI in T7 was giving me trouble! :D

[@anon3631]

heh, nice fundamentals kid **plugs you**

[@GuuchReborn]

0:03 when it comes to farting games

[@XxdextriousxX]

“Boomer cam” lmaoo

[@itzjaysee]

Love your videos has a new tekken player

[@Himbo_JayK]

I will unsubscribe weekly to maintain this buff. Thank you for your hard work.

[@nerocalisthenics2829]

Can you please please please make guides on how to progress from absolute noob to advanced? I want to get good at the game but have no idea on how to approach it Would be very much appreciated!

[@GMKGoji01]

That thumbnail almost looked to me like what Asuka would've been after Tekken 5 before Lili existed.

[@FarEasternLodge]

Hand over that thumbnail king

[@KNGDDDE]

Wats that outro song?

[@bigfoot9405]

love the vid, had to watch on 1.5x tho

[@jmc2830]

"i would always spam sakura's really powerful buttons" - zug 2022

[@Some1Something]

1:53 bold of you to assume my zoomer brain can react most of the time.

[@SirCrusher]

What is that document with the definition of a knowledge check?

[@bugglemagnum6213]

@3:43 lmfao

[@MildCrisp]

I swear I thought he said farting games

[@bohdanherasymenko7569]

Wait, you can escape throw in this game?

[@georgegkoumas5026]

It was at this moment that he knew. He fked up.

[@qweqweqwadcsc]

What I would like to call degenerate Tekken

[@friggen_roylty4368]

I've never truly had a problem with "cheap" anything in Tekken outside of Gon. Maybe I'll plateau somewhere in the ranks sometime. But I'm sure it'd never be to "cheese".

[@lapis3965]

It's been announced that BlazBlue Central Fiction is getting rollback netcode. This is probably the best news I've heard all year. Will definitely be grinding BBCF again hard now with this news announcement, since this is a game I could EASILY see myself playing for the rest of my life when compared to other fighting games since I've already literally spent well over a hundred hours JUST in training mode alone at this point. LETS FUCKING GO!!!!!

[@axellyann5085]

I bought the game months ago in a psn promo but never tried because inexistent online (same goes for Unist), and my brother simply is no match in any fg that we play because i always go tryhard (hours in practice mode) and he just do 5 min lab, play some matches and go back to his fps. This rollback is only for PC rn, i'll have to wait.

[@dredvax]

My goodness, everyone in this comment section writing BOOKS. You think we're about to read all that?

[@agyratingmonkey]

Why was this uploaded at half speed

[@agyratingmonkey]

Oh yeah this is for Tekken players

[@atsurokihara5525]

every time i see your videos i wanna go back in time to schthack's servers and rip up some PSO ;_; rip

[@Burning_Typhoon]

@ 2:18 You also couldn't break single-handed grabs with whatever button you wanted like in Tekken 7. 1+3 had to be broken with 1, and 2+4 had to be broken with 2.

[@wanderlustwarrior]

I feel like this video title limits the audience for this really useful video.

[@kshitiz6376]

Please elaborate.

[@rayto_V2]

what is dishonest tekken ? anything that is not a mishima MASKU

[@foxsteve9937]

whats the conclusion u didnt say anthing

[@therevman5940]

Want asuka on bouncin on top of me rn

[@nocandoslurms433]

There's an MK11 pro, afoxygrampa, who likes to troll on stream by winning with nothing but throws. Worth checking out for the lulz.

[@1starfalco1]

yea i understand what your saying butttttttttttttt. devil jin's un-seeable hellsweep that LAUNCHES isnt honest tekken

[@ronrmjr2031]

Thumbnail artist name plsm

[@ProfessorSnack]

So you're saying 3 bar kuma player ki charging is honest because he could break grabs? Jk good vid!

[@junyaiwase]

hey

[@HajiChola]

Personally, I hate when a king player grabs me, the big damage ones ngl. I m a king main, a grapple happy one, and I feel so great everytime I grab someone and eat their healths.

[@Puzzl3man]

Why did he say farting games

[@AR-py5uk]

Like for flying grandpa

[@armornutshell7349]

I have no complain on Marduk, but leroy?

[@easygoingdude9990]

Honest characters are the white whales of fighting games

[@rubberducky1356]

I have 3 mains. Bryan for deep but fundamental tekken, kazumi for more straightforward but fundamental tekken, and alisa for taking out the trash.

[@edgelord121]

If it's about taking out trash, pls just pick Leroy. (I hope you get the reference)

[@rubberducky1356]

@@edgelord121 I actually learned the reference yesterday, lol.

[@axellyann5085]

Same. But when you say fundamental i hear party. Yoshi as number 1, Eliza as number 2, and Lee as number 3. Usually ppl quit when i play Yoshi or Eliza (winning or loosing), then i have to pick Lee if i want someone to play against.

[@rianmanik4598]

On tekken 7 you can counter for a counter attack is not logic in a fighting.

[@CutthroatDe]

Morality in tekken especially is such a murky subject. I definitely believe I'm a very honest player, but in ranked I'm pretty likely to exploit you. Theres no fun or self improvement in winning that way though.

[@m-vendor]

The most unfair thing in tekken is fighting dlc character 😑

[@toni3172]

when it comes to farting games , I swear I heard this .

[@Cezkarma]

Ah yes, farting games

[@shrike6640]

"farting games"

[@junioraumatangi977]

When it comes to farting games?!

[@somedudeonyoutubefrfr]

Or just play dishonest yourself: Fight fire with fire

[@victorfranca85]

Nice editing. But this video is kinda pointless. A video about throws as being cheap? It didnt even feature Asuka that much. I feel used

[@welsh_steel2285]

Dislike. You should learn about season 2 Kazumi, release Leeroy etc, if you weren't playing those characters you had every right to say the words dishonest and honest.

[@dredvax]

Season 2 Kazumi was butt. She got hit with many nerfs that Season

[@Mm-vr9mt]

Oh god release Leroy what was it like 8 out of 10 pros were running him in the finals? Without even fully learning him yet, always a clear sign of a well balanced character with no links to release buffs for cash like any other games cough league cough

[@welsh_steel2285]

@@Mm-vr9mt Leeroy still has the "magic stick", it's such a sorry sight to see practices like this on a game renowned for its dedication to balance. Before in Tekken only characters like Devil Jin were considered anywhere close to broken but at least you were forced into the risky wavu wavu execution playstyle.

[@ozimantv]

Why are you guys starting to give misinformation. Yes in offline all this shit is fair however promoting use of throws and even lying (probably not intentionally) is toxic.12+16 is the frame data on throws not 12+20 and you even need to subtrack between 3 and 10 frames depending on lag.Thus making it in the range for 25-18 and not breakable on reaction unless you have that korean connection with 3 bars and even then its harder than its designed to be.Game makes moves certain frame for a reason.If you use a move which is designed to be seable but isnt due to online delay thats not just unfair that the definition of cheating via use of bugs. Let me give you an example in league of legends you could make infinite towers with a character combination via use of a bug.Now just because they didnt use an external program are you saying its fair ? I argue no. If something in a game is better than the way its spesifically designed to be by creating a new purpose IE becoming unseable then its a bug thus should be removed from game and should be punished if used in the case of not removal.This includes any seable string low you call “knowledge check” or throws and if you are using these in online that makes you a cheating piece of shit not someone “who uses tools of the character”

[@MarcMan-]

I got tekken like a few weeks ago and playing as a total noob has convinced me that all fighting games will die and they deserve it

[@TAREEBITHETERRIBLE]

young lad haha aww but yo Im wondering what game is this 1:02 it looks super sick THE POWER RANGERS HAD A GAME WHAAAAT??