DISRESPECTFUL Chi Sau Advanced Level Sparring International Competition | ICMAC Chi Sau 2014

[@waderogers776]

Chi sau 'sparring'? Too much has been made of chi sau, and Wing Chun as a form of self defense has suffered for it. This goes against everything that Chi sau is meant to do, and I think degrades the respect that Wing Chun (as a fighting art) deserves.

[@Winteramen]

Thank you. I agree

[@tontonder8271]

Facts

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Well written Wade. This isn’t the purpose of chi sau.

[@notusingmyname4791]

I mean I can see the point of upping the contact with chi sau, while it's a tool for developing sensitivity you do want to be able to apply it to real grappling and clenching and use it in an actual situation... but this devolves to slap boxing at best... I've seen some places that have harder contact chi sau, that's well after you have developed the sensitivity needed to be able to apply it in a fight. Other places spar but use the sensetivity of chi sau in their sparing, regardless of how hard they go.

[@pked9]

your right, Not gor sau .... thx fcbk wing chun fresno leung sheung tree kenneth chun ...

[@joseseijo6439]

Beware of touching hands with students from other W C schools or lineages, unless it’s done in a mutual and respectful manner between both parties. I was taught that chi sao is only a drill for developing certain attributes, and a study of ones energy flow based on bone structure and tendon strength, while muscle is in play, it is at a minimum and mostly relaxed. Also, there are different ways of doing chi sau, it all depends on what you want to develop, whether it’s more sensitivity, structure in technique, reflexes, coordination of upper and lower torso, etc., there are many things that can be agreed by both partners to be worked on, but mutual agreement is important. I view the 3 forms and dummy as textbooks, and chi sao as the laboratory, here we have the opportunity to study and experiment with the different types of gings ( internal energies ) such as, rooting, uprooting, pushing, pulling, sinking, warding, rolling, listening ging, fa ging, etc., and this is only development on a physical level. If we move on to a study on a psychological level while practicing chi sao, it becomes a study of how to deal with our inner demons or egos and how to overcome them, because if we don’t, our progress in W C or in general for that matter, will be limited and our evolution and growth will come to a halt. Here we have the opportunity to see an feel them ( egos ) rise to the surface, which offers us the moment to see and study how, when, why, and from where they arise. Gor sao is taught at a later stage in ones W C development when the student has a good foundation in the system and it’s understanding of the concepts, principles, and theories, then the individual should be ready for sparring or offhand chi sao. We must develop a study mindset in both the physical and psychological areas and not be too competitive against each other, these chi sao competitions prove nothing and only leave the participants with broken or stroked egos. There will always be someone out there better than you, the real enemy lies within, so we must defeat the self first to know. I train for survival, that means that anything goes, and in the end, winning or losing does not matter to me, only my survival and that I can get home safe and in one piece. My years in the martial arts have taught me something, and that is to take advantage of my precious time and always try and come away with something valuable from my studies in the arts. My humble salute goes out to all you brother warriors in the spirit of peace ! 😔👊🏼🙏🏼

[@austinclemons3678]

Peace Wiseman you have a IG or a Facebook

[@ViciousFrostbite]

I Aint reading all that. Good point or shut up.

[@AlbertoPerez-zu6wg]

Excellent information brother god bless you ❤😊

[@pked9]

you are correct , thx fcbk wing chun fresno leung sheung tree kenneth chun ...

[@NiksadaGaming]

They both seem very tense which that’s not what Chisao is about. It’s about flowing with relaxation to feel out your opponent then strike when you feel they are off balance. Basic Wing Chun 101.

[@Eternaprimavera73]

yes but for some reason people cannot see it. Buf

[@hemispace641]

Sincityboyj: So, according to you, they need to work on not being tense and flowing with relaxation to be more effective. Maybe your comment will be a "take-way" for one of both of these practicioners, and possibly people who have read your comment.

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Neither appear to be able to use any of the tools learnt from chi sau, when they break contact. I see the way the bigger mans left arm , in fook sau / punch, has his elbow joint opening and closing. His upper arm is remaining still. No rotation at the shoulder? He’s not performing this movement correctly when they are in contact. They may both be quite junior in their training.

[@TampaWingChunKungFu]

thanks for your reply. i’m the one in the video. i literally just started learning chi sao. the other person has been doing chi sao for at least 5 years. the other guy was literally shit talking us for a good 2 hours prior to this chi sao event. so it did get kind of heated 😂

[@powerplay4real174]

Competitive attitude can be a challenge to control because neither one of them want to loss to the other 😎⚔️🤣

[@ceemee1430]

As an older WC brother once said after losing a tooth “ You didn’t hit me, I missed my block!”

[@TheUmmahFightCamp]

What is this?????

[@bogwoppit792]

Seriously, is there any point to these competitive chi sau matches? Ref says stop shoving, well he's taking a forwards pressure element out of it

[@Eternaprimavera73]

i agree, i don t undertand what people are seeing when watching this video.. This is horriblly poor.

[@knguyen8395]

In fact, to a normal person this doesn't mean anything. But in a life and death situation when you deal with a bad guy, sticky hand techniques can finish a guy in seconds! It's very effective. You don't want to box or wrestle with your opponent on a hard concrete.

[@bogwoppit792]

@@knguyen8395 seriously?? Are you 12 years old? Chi Sao is just part of the learning process to develop reflexes and shifting of stance. If you think this is real Wing Chun in application then you're a fool. The bigger guy is in control with stance and forwards pressure. Take the Chi Sao element out of it and the bigger guy is and absolute beast

[@animus3312]

There is no shoving in Wing Chun. Shoving means you push them out of your effective range and lose connection to their structure. It might as well be wrestling at that point. Chi sau is also about learning to connect to and control their structure while also sticking to them so you never lose that connection.

[@hemispace641]

@@Eternaprimavera73 : Horribly poor? Maybe they just need to practice more...

[@Aniontedone]

Don’t chase the hands. Strike at disengagement. Hands should be center seeking. Apply forward pressure when rolling will make the hands spring loaded to strike when the opponent disengages.

[@KungFuPadawan]

What is the goal? What are the rules? I don't really understand what they're doing???

[@timothypaton9688]

how is this competition? chi sau a training drill

[@darkhorse888]

I'll give an opinion. A competition for chi sau is just dumb. you have all missed the point of what you are meant to get out of chi sau.

[@pked9]

your are correct , thx fcbk wing chun fresno leung sheung tree kenneth chun ...

[@aaronhuang8425]

Bravo. Both Sifus are impressively skilled. Here is my strategy that works for me, it may not for another. Typically from what I've seen, Chi Sao is usually done CONTROLLED bare hands full-contact, but in a relaxed state of mind focused. First drill- focus, accuracy, and upper-lower body coordination (on an "H" shaped plank) is trained under pressure to get a beginner to be calm under impact/strike pain tolerance (go only 75%-80% intensity at first with WT helmet). It's a game of playing King of the Mountain on the H-Plank starting with poon/look sao into chi sao. This stage is to learn DISTANCE UNDER PRESSURE. You can try blind-folded if you feel brave. If you're the instructor, use this drill to hone good technique. 3 minute rounds. Hands only. Second drill, train freestyle chi sao where spring recoil/loaded piston energy should be developed in open space in a gym starting in poon/look sao. This stage is to learn TIMING UNDER PRESSURE. Go between freestyle and H-plank chi-sao (like bulking and toning)... when technique gets sloppy go back to H-plank. 3 minute rounds. Hands only. NOTE on First drill and Second drill: After 3-6 months of going back and forth between these couple of drills, your hands will become EXTREMELY FAST as a by-product of TIMING and DISTANCE control. In fact, you will notice your hands alone will be going 100% intensity in a short time WITH EXCELLENT technique. If you feel like you are getting sloppy, go back to 75%-80% intensity. Learn to do combo attacks "chained" with fists and palm strikes. Example: A lop-hit-hit-hit is still a chained attack even if you are hitting with one hand. Be the the position that gives you most control. 3 minute round on first drill. 1 minute break. 3 minute round on second drill. Repeat. Third drill, do chi-gerk alone from sticky feet position. Then add chi-gerk with first and second drill at 75%-80%. Rotate between first drill (H-Plank sticky hands and feet), and second drill (freestyle sticky hands and feet). Start in Poon/look sau position. Chi-Sao & Chi-Gerk combined. 3 minutes on H-Plank. 1 minute break. 3 minutes freestyle. Repeat. If you get sloppy, go ahead and do chi-gerk alone for good technique. Your feet will become EXTREMELY FAST as a by-product. Your feet will become 100% intensity in a short time. This should take roughly 2 months. Fourth Drill, start untouched position and lead in with chi-gerk (instead of poon sao) into chi-sao with first drill and second drill. Start at 60-75% intensity. 3 minute (1st drill untouch lead with foot). 1 minute break. 3 minute (2nd drill untouch lead with foot). Repeat. YOU will be EXTREMELY FAST along with your FAST HANDS and FAST FEET as a by-product. Once you are proficient in these, you can do "untouched position leading in with hands" aka gwoh sao. Soon you can fight leading from either hands or feet. You will eventually get to 100% intensity. Once you reach 75% intensity, get full armor WT Sparring suit to prevent injuries. I feel that under competition rules, full contact Gwoh Sau rules would be more appropriate since competitive Chi Sau tends to become sloppy- EVEN among experts if you try to make chi-sao competitive with 100% intensity. I feel competitive chi-sao brings out the worst in techniques & it becomes confrontational. Using the German Wing Tsun 'WT Armor Suit' would standardize equipment made specifically for Wing Chun/Tsun because it keeps competition safer without compromising Wing Chun technique (even though there are still limitations, that I feel would limit development less)... Please let me know what you think. I want to discuss 2 more into the topic of learning to surgically attacking dim mak points in the neck/lower face/jaw/chin/throat from Biu Tze Chi Sao to learning Chin Na from Single handed Chi Sao... but that's another post for next time :-) I am not an expert at Wing Chun, I am just a practicing Wing Chun hobbyist who learned from few great Wing Chun sifus and few great non-Wing Chun sifus in Western arts. My Credentials. I learned Yuen Kay/Yiu Choi Wing Chun thru my father's Sanshou/Chinese Combatives because military training during 50s-70s China is mandatory for EVERYONE in High School during Maoist era at Huangpu Military Academy in Guangdong even if you are not in the army- you're still reserve. My father taught me what he knows. The Sanshou in each of these Chinese military academies have regional influence, mainly Wing Chun/Hung Gar/Choi Li Fut in Guangdong. I grew up in the Chinese Food Business in a small town. As I grew up, random relatives from Taishan, Hong Kong, Foshan, and Guangzhou would teach me random Wing Chun moves long with Chinese Kitchen Cooks that often times were High School drop-out street thugs that learned martial arts to scrap. Finally when I moved to the big city as an adult, I formally studied Wing Tsun for 2.5 years from a Vietnamese Chinese Sifu who studied German Wing Tsun for 18+ years. My sifu also trained BJJ and Bokator (Khumer version Muay Thai) for 3 years! I trained on average of 5 hours a week for 2.5 years using mainly these drills I mentioned above. I feel forms are great, but should be treated like tool like shadow boxing. Wooden Dummy is mostly used to coordinate accuracy/precision of 108/116 wooden dummy positions.

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Thank you. Very interesting and very well written. Despite only seeming to have received bits and pieces of training in these arts , you are very knowledgeable ❤🙏

[@mogatdula]

I think they both did well. I enjoyed this very much. I'd like to see maybe with headgear and let them hit each other more, since this is advanced. Both men looked skilled and strong so it would of been great to watch. Why should chi sao be reserved and "polite" anyway? Physical and aggressive

[@tontonder8271]

Because it's martial art comming from a civilized people 😂

[@hemispace641]

Maurice Gatdula: Why should chi sao be reserved and "polite" anyway? Physical and aggressive. Hemi Space: I agree with you 110%. As long as after the match they return to mutually respecting each other. If you can't do that, then you need to work on your emotional/mental kung fu attributes, which is just as important as working on the physical attributes.

[@tontonder8271]

@@hemispace641 because if you use force against someone who really knows chisao he will take your force and bring it back to you as if you were slapping your own face... Chisao competition is total nonsense... My opinion

[@hemispace641]

@@tontonder8271 : I agree with you again... I can't dispute what you just said about Chi-Sau and force, and slapping my own face... But Chi-Sau competition nonsense? I disagree! Where else am I going to see Chi-Sau from the comfort of my own home or mobile device whenever I can? I say, keep these Chi-Sau videos coming! I love watching Chi-Sau. Both good and bad Chi-Sau. Plus, I've seen worse Chi-Sau. This didn't look horrible to me, but I don't know Chi-Sau with the depth of a Wing Chun practitioner...

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Once contact is broken both guys should be fighting, not continuing to attempt to re-engage in chi sau. This doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s not really the purpose of the chi sau exercise done correctly .

[@lesegovorster5535]

I don't think he was disrespectful at all... Wing Chun, by its very nature, is meant to be 'hidden' and elusive, in a manner of speaking. He won this bout for many reasons, firstly because when two men of equal skill meet, beware of the shorter man. He was also more consistently in stance as opposed to Garret, who was standing up straight alot, probably because the identity of his Wing Chun stems from his bigger size and it wasn't working here...hence he was more visibly fatigued. So what is seen as 'disrespect' here, I think is a practitioner who was using his own ego and his opponent's ego, against the opponent. I speak from experience here as I too am a bulky fellow and have had to learn not to rely on my muscles in Chi Sau or else I get hit...a lot...every time... And I get tired quicker...every single time. As for the shouting 'defeat' to everyone beforehand, perhaps he is a dick, who knows, lol, but his technique was better. Great display nevertheless from both guys.

[@bigwavesun]

I agree with you 100%. People forget that the goal of wing chun is to clear the hands and HIT. BUT, you will almost never get wing chun practitioners to agree on anything so some things will be seen as disrespectful, etc, etc. To each their own. This was a great match to see skills in rooting and hands.

[@chrisgermann6658]

Too much ego between them, i personally am very cautious when it comes to chi sau because it only takes someone emotionally unstable to take it to another level. Chi sau is a training tool for developing various attributes i don't believe it should be used in competition. No wonder this art form gets such a bad rep.

[@yondahime38]

Oh my god! You don't have to be strong !

[@notusingmyname4791]

so what are the rules here? I see a lot of opportunities for strikes that they aren't taking, and when they make contact, a lot of it has no drive with the rest of the body, except sometimes to the elbows which is the one good thing about the exchange.

[@yonceydelatorre3802]

How cute, playing patty cake😳😳😳

[@bigwavesun]

What were the rules here?

[@ichimarugin1995]

Horrible.... Chisao is not a fight. And this chisao is not good.

[@vinniebabauta118]

Shouldn’t this be called sparring? Not chi sau?

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

For some reason they’re trying to do both ? And not very well 😐

[@menoftheclothKTOG]

I dont think the shorter guy knows how to do chi sou

[@JimJones-dm1sw]

Why do they stop so much

[@KungFuKing166]

This is an embarrassment. Nothing more than sloppy hands using tension rather than good body mechanics. It's why Wing Chun gets such a bad rap - because this is the version that goes on KZbin, rather than the explosive dangerous version that you find at good schools. I'm guessing these guys are all American

[@elanmimoun3898]

The short one is Justin Och he didn’t even finish the forms as the other one yes he’s American

[@brennansnowdon4642]

This reminds me what's happened to most judo people I meet they throw technique out the window and try to muscle everything

[@pked9]

your are correct , thx fcbk wing chun fresno leung sheung tree kenneth chun ...

[@poltoons]

LoL 'competitive' chi sao? What a complete waste of time.

[@knguyen8395]

As you can see, it's hard to do chi sau sticky hands in real fights. You notice that they both start to disengage after a few seconds after bridging their arms. This is normal and not the right way. Furthermore, you also notice that they both start to loose their center line! Sticky hands is all about sticking to your opponent and maintain your center line to prevent vulnerable attacks. My philosophy in WC is there is no such thing as defense. You defend and attack at the same time. A block is also an attack and vise versa.

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Well written. You’re quite knowledgeable. Thanks 🙏

[@rudychabez7228]

Where’s the foot work and kicking?

[@LMFAS9528]

To rigid ,they both need to relax more and what happened to legs ,they are non existant ,and theres not enough trapping

[@johnbland1585]

War of elbows. Neither could hold centerline. This was more about muscle and shoving as even their exchanges led to nowhere. Chi sao is a drill not a fight or a fight starter. I think...someone should listen ! If you are going to spare, don't use chi sao as a intro just fkn spar.

[@hemispace641]

John Bland: This wasn't a sparring session. This was a friendly Chi-Sau competition. Sparring would probably be done in another section of the the tournament. But this wasn't a sparring session...

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Well written. Thanks. There’s a very limited understanding across the network for this martial art. Seriously too diluted the further the linage travels from the true masters.

[@jvsf01]

This is not practical for a competition

[@jckingsley]

If there is a break in contact that was not a strike, they should be reset. If they need to be reset more than three times in a row, the match is over and neither fighter wins. It is a draw. Otherwise, this is just sparring. Most of the time, I would say that even during a strike, contact still needs to be there, but there are techniques that trap that will, of course, make that impossible. 3 or more consecutive unanswered hits or a break in contact. Those stop the action. Also, being pushed off your base past a very small square "ring's" edges. I would say in Chi Sao that you should score points for successfully taking points in hits or unbalancing your opponent to the point that they cannot control their base any longer (a throw, reap, trap of the leg coupled with a centerline shove, for example).

[@chupapiomio9540]

Can someone explain what the heck is happening!!!!

[@WingChunDom]

Chi Sao but with the ref complaining about strikes and larp sao(pulling), so tbh I'm not too sure because that's all integrated

[@WingChunDom]

They switched from finding the arms and getting into a nice poon sao to striking at some point as well, I do like this idea a lot though, it's interesting to see the aggression and how they've made it competitive. While there's always going to be stuff to moan at it's definitely an exciting direction

[@vikctorrkreedd6418]

What's so evident here is the fact that "disrespectful" refuses to use his outside angle on a taller, bigger opponent who knows how to cut off the angle, but also reinstate it, if I can say. His ego destroyed him from his inception, he's pretty decent on a certain levels, much respect to him. Although he would get mauled in certain aspects, like most of us, he has drilled out many hours, both have, big man wins. Sifu Och been hitting the isopure and weights with sum roadwork lol 👍💪 loved it !!

[@tontonder8271]

This is just ego you do that with a legit master you get you're ass kicked effortlessly

[@hemispace641]

Tonton Der: Didn't look to me like the intent between these 2 gentlemen was to kick each other's ass. Not in the least...

[@tontonder8271]

@@hemispace641 i was talking about chi sao competition in general not about thes two gentlemen

[@hemispace641]

@@tontonder8271 : I re-read your post, and I see what you mean now. I agree with you 200% that a legit Wing Chun master's Chi-Sau would take these 2 Chi-Sau gentlemen to school in a Chi-Sau match. I give props to these gentlemen for having the Wing Chun Chi-Sau competition video taped, and put on the internet, knowing it will be painfully critiqued for all eternity by those who know better...

[@tontonder8271]

@@hemispace641 no doubt they seem to enjoy and respect each other they i respect that 💯❤️

[@chrisfoto4782]

Hmmmm... competitive Chi Sau seems like on oxymoron.

[@Taniwha123]

Running palms ??? Maybe

[@KuenSuiKuen]

Interesting stuff

[@SifuOchWingChun]

If you liked that you should check out our most recent video... I think you will like it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2eXhpt7as-bjsk

[@KuenSuiKuen]

Thanks I appreciate, I am also a Wing Chun practitioner myself (25+yrs) from Bermuda. It's good to see functional and energetic WC. Peace and Love

[@scottmcclain5493]

let och complete in mma!!!

[@cjdvingtsun]

If I was that black guy a student of och I would have stopped about 1 minute in and asked that little guy do you want to spar? Let's wait till this chi sao practice is over and we can fight because chi sao isn't fighting. Ideally if one has way more skill that that guy you can just control him and keep trapping his hands up so he's helpless but you need the skill level of sifu och then.

[@StEvUgnIn]

Advanced level?

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

😂 yeah

[@StEvUgnIn]

@@wingchun-simplekungfu7584 more like advanced playing hands

[@thevillageyid]

Might as well just put on some gear and do some heavy sparring.

[@streetwiseguitar5113]

Not chi sau

[@glennsnare09]

This looks silly

[@WingChunChiSauTube]

Such a shame

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

And pointless

[@johnbland1585]

Are no leg techniques allowed ? Fuck... make more like a fight. Your supposed to be Wing Chun not some rule following theatre.

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

Well written 😂

[@RizZen007]

I think both did good. I really dont like the referee tho, whoever he is. Let the men breathe and be free, without stopping them 4 seconds in. And then giving them multiple verbal warnings. When you are sparring with like 20 other people around and in a “competition” setting .. of course “ego” is going to get involved.. accidental or unintentional tension or strain. “Pushing, shoving, grabbing, ‘whatever’” … if it were a more private and non-competitive (winner and loser) environment then Id agree with the bullshit the ref is spewing. Id like to see him doing some “chi sao”/“sparring” with an audience keeping score and him not stiffening up and inevitably using a little bit of force with force. JUST LET THEM FIGHT, or spar, chi sao … I am a Wing Chun practitioner and i cant stand “controlled-settings” like this. … where you gotta say sorry for accidents and having the referee breathing down your neck and on your conscience. Just let them chi sao for God’s sake. And the whole nature of “start rolling” for 4 seconds and then GO! Is trash. All that does is inspire them to clash force with force to begin with.. why not just start off Rolling hands WITHOUT the ref having to say “Go” .. where the hell is the sensitivity of just “deciding” when to go OFF OF FEELING … not “ready, set, GO!!” This is why Wing Chun has such a bad rep. And chi sao isnt the Only way to develop skill, nor is it even always the Best way. These are grown men, not little boys. Let them make more contact and when things get out of hand THEN break it up and give warnings. That ref has probably never been in a Real fight in his life. Good match tho between the two Wing Chun practitioners. Sad they couldnt even freely express themselves 🥱🤷🏾‍♂️

[@robjohnson8662]

I've judged wing chunk numerous times at USKSF nationals, chi sao to me is an absolutely useless exercise. It quickly becomes a bitch slapping contest. I've have been doing tai chi (chen and yang) and push hands has become almost as bad if not in some cases worse. Tournaments anymore are the bane of chinese martial arts. I see 720 crescent kicks in praying mantis (northern), xingyi is becoming taekwondo with high kicks in forms which are anathema to the spirit of my beloved first internal art. Ba Gua Zhang is practically becoming ballet. I have 48 total years in martial arts with the last 30 in chinese internal arts. I bet Yang Lu Chan, Chen Chang Xing, Kuo Yun Shen and Dong Hai Chuan would fall on their swords if they saw the level to which CMA has fallen. Even Le Tai has become a bitch slap fest.

[@TM-zt9jt]

Are we serious? This is still a thing? You take one aspect of a fighting art and make it a competition? That's like having a Karate sparring competition limited to only side kicks. If nothing else, these Chi Sao competitions reveal the irresponsible and reckless arrogance of Wing Chun practitioners. The simply act of signing up for this event is a shame! Keep embarrassing the art, thanks a lot! *** If you want to have an accurate Chi Sao competition, the approach should be the measure and judging of how effective Chi Sao and ALL its aspects used to successfully overwhelm an opponent in a real fight is carried out. This would be analogous to competitors in MMA who, let's say, fear a fighter for her/his ground game, therefore trying their best to avoid going to the ground. In this case however, you're awarded no prize for hopping around foolishly at a distance all day -point being, you MUST engage. ***

[@powerplay4real174]

Cobra Khia Chi Sao or Sticky Handz

[@phantomlord1971]

This is more gor sau. Kinda sorta 😆

[@hpsunday]

the shorter guy is good

[@wingchun-simplekungfu7584]

And the bigger guy isn’t very good

[@bigwavesun]

Great hands, but lost his root to the bigger guy constantly. It happens. I dont think this was disrespectful at all. Good wing chun is supposed to HIT after clearing the line if hands.

[@76kamikazi]

Shows this crap will never ever work in a real fight under pressure never.

[@rumsbums3113]

Wtf

[@ariasenagms2076]

Great control both of them

[@user-uk9er5vw4c]

sparring competition? this is frottage

[@bennettcain635]

This is poor form.

[@brianrahuba6919]

This makes no sense 😕. This doesn't mean anything but patty cake on steroids...... Yeah I would fear these people...... lol lol lol

[@outofthebox7]

I would like to dare to introduce some thoughts to help some of you advance in truth and those thoughts are: *Sticking hands in the hands of reality becomes sticking mess, ALWAYS. *Sticking hands are not made for high speed strikes; the brain won't alow it. *It is only an exercise mostly to strike, not to block or deflect. It is therefore irrational for competition unless it's in slow speed. (The idea that someone uses high speed for chi sao is unscientific and that he gets awarded for it, is complete hogwash.) *What then happens, due to speed, is that the opponents disregard the sense of touch and then "go at it" but as if their arms are in a box; distance is kept since at that distance that speed is dangerous, and no one is hurt by random, almost blind, "touches" and "pats". You can attack me all you want, but I am not the issue, you just can't refute any of my points and that is the issue wing chun has to deal with. Talk about being trapped, instead of wanting to be freed for the chi sao lie. I understand that you hear these things for the first time and therefore your negative reaction is expected, no problem, but at least don't sound silly if you answer, but give proper thought before you do. Thank you for your time, I mean well. PS.Please dare to remove this practice from wing chun or keep it simple; it's a fancy drag that has nothing to do with fighting.

[@hemispace641]

outofthebox7: Slow Chi-Sau? What about Emin Boztepe? I've seen him do lighting fast Chi-Sau.

[@outofthebox7]

@@hemispace641 Boztepe is nothing special, just a gig. But what you say is still irrelevant. What I said is that you can't use punches with speed in chi sao and not hit the guy. They will always land, the sense of touch cannot deal with them in free chi sao. So blocking very fast in-coming powerful strikes during chi sao is impossible. What you see in schools being done is a lie, at best it's just coordination. The sense of touch is useless for deflecting fast strikes, especially two or more. In a real fight setting it's impossible to use chi sao, that's why wc people always lose in any fight. Chi sao is for using the sense of touch, not doing very fast useless coordination drills. The second are easy but not actually chi sao. You don't know the difference.

[@hemispace641]

@@outofthebox7 "You don't know the difference.". Is that supposed to be an insult? I don't know the difference. Nothing wrong with that... I don't feel insulted because I don't know the difference... What I do know is that I've seen Boztepe do slow, instructional-speed Chi-Sau, and I've seen him do the super-fast Chi-Sau, and his Wing Chun looks special. Emin Boztepe's Wing Chun Kung Fu is GOOD. His Chi-Sau looks effective for whatever skill it is supposed to develop. And from what I've heard and seen, he is an extremely knowledgeable, experienced, skillful, and effective fighter. I'm not the only one who sees this in Emin Boztepe's videos... Granted, "I don't know the difference", but I know effective combat when I see it. Whether Western boxing, Chinese Boxing, Wrestling, or Judo, Filipino, Muay Thai.

[@outofthebox7]

@@hemispace641 Not an insult, but an observation. You see, what you think you see... But nevermind...

[@hemispace641]

​@@outofthebox7 : Good observation. I don't know the difference... Still, they get points from me for posting their video, as even the bold, knowledgeable, and skillful many times won't even post their own stuff because their egos are too fragile for the criticism they will surely receive posting a video of of themselves in any competition they've been involved in on a KZbin video on the Internet...

[@JKDVIPER]

Too much grabbing .. learn to let go

[@truprophetsliveforever453]

wish they were fighting for real not this shit

[@Dvisionart]

poor vt

[@elanmimoun3898]

This is completely terrible

[@user-nh5zd3ic8r]

lol this is play fighting

[@WC1333]

What a joke

[@76kamikazi]

If this doesn’t prove chi sau is garbage I don’t know what will.No wonder the great Bruce lee did away with it in his later years.This was no better than a shoving match of brute strength wish is what Chi sau will condition you to do when a real fight breaks out.And to all you chi sau , push hands or whatever else you want to pretend to be try it in a dynamic manner like this and I guarantee all you devastating chi sau fighting champions will look just like these two guys.Time to stop lying to yourselves especially you wing chun peoples.

[@siwal69]

Wing chun has its place just like all the others