Dissecting Espresso Extractions: TDS, EY & More

[@drise7391]

Love the scientific/data-based videos. Keep them coming

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks, more to come! AJ

[@mapa5000]

In college we use to say… we can’t control what we can’t measure. Great video !! And thanks for sharing 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@Wholelattelovepage]

So true!

[@Nevermindthrbrewmethod]

Great work AJ, that makes infinitely more sense than the way that data is usually presented.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you. Glad it was understandable! AJ

[@patrickd1791]

Great video I would love to see more like this. I had to watch it twice. I felt like I was getting fire hosed with information but ultimately it gave me information that I think will allow me to make a better cup.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Haha sorry for the firehose. Glad you found it useful! AJ

[@big5astra]

This was a really great video AJ - it has clarified some of the questions I had regarding the terms used to describe aspects of the extraction process. keep 'em coming!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

A lot of this stuff is super confusing and most material doesn't bother explaining the terms before presenting them. Glad you found the video helpful! AJ

[@brian_ball]

Love the dissection. Hadn't heard of the Salami Slice before - will use it myself.

[@Ghanshyam00000]

This video is a very deep dissecting extraction

[@jonathanhaley9967]

This video was incredible with regards to rigor and understandability awesome work guys

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you Jonathan! AJ

[@CNile-se9xw]

Congrats on an easily digestible scientific test that we can relate to, to improve our shots. 👍

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you very much ☕️ AJ

[@GoTellJesusSaves]

Great stuff! These are the things I don't have the equipment to test. So seeing your results is very helpful.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks! Glad you liked it

[@crishamilton6678]

You are an excellent teacher. We want more.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you very much! More to come. AJ

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

This is a really useful video. Thank you for taking the trouble to produce it.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

No trouble at all. It was fun! AJ

[@jameskealy8292]

Amazing vid. Love your work!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks a ton!

[@EarthbendR]

Really excellent video and breakdown! Loving it. More of this plz!!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks! Seems like this video is getting a good response, so there will certainly be more of this kind of content in the future. AJ

[@colinbriggs1963]

A good way to learn what’s happening during the extraction process - also when to stop before it goes bitter.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks, Colin! AJ

[@kimhammerovergaard8487]

Really a informativ video. More Please ❤️

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you! Will do!

[@scottbrasuell325]

Great job! Clear and straight forward. Thank you. Peace!!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks! Glad you liked it. AJ

[@afordtj]

Love nereding out of coffee ~ great stuff!!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@jfess1911]

Thanks. I had wondered about this. TBH, I am surprised that it dropped off so quickly since so little water is used in espresso vs French press and pour over.

[@SantiagogranadosR]

Thank you! I really enjoyed this video!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad to hear! Thanks for watching and commenting. AJ

[@michaelsmith6094]

I liked the in depth science take on espresso making. Maybe one day I'll actually be able to make better shots.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Michael, thanks for the comment! What specifically are you having trouble with? Maybe we can help out. AJ

[@michaelsmith6094]

@@Wholelattelovepage I hear people talking about how a shot tastes "sweet" but none of mine ever do. The very best I get is "not that bitter". I have Eureka Mingon Notte grinder and recently purchased QuickMill Arnos.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Solid grinder and machine, so I doubt that's the issue. It could be the beans you're using. Have you experimented with different roasters and roast levels? Dark roasts tend to be more bitter, while light-medium are generally easier to pull sweetness out of with proper extraction. However, note that "sweetness" from straight espresso isn't going to be like the sweetness from a caramel mocha latte. It's a much more subtle, natural sweetness, not like a sugary drink. If you're still getting bitterness, try bumping the PID down a couple degrees, and/or stopping your shot a little earlier to see if that helps. AJ

[@user-ed7dy1mq9u]

Hell yeah! I love this kind of stuff. I wonder if it be a good method to figure out the best total brew time by slicing my shots and slowly combining them afterwards.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Definitely an interesting idea. The samples end up pretty small so you'd have to do really small tastes after adding each one, but it would be a fun exercise. AJ

[@VentoRacing1]

That was great I learned a lot. I am going to do my own Salami shot test and try so different weight shots to see if I can maximize my shots.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Awesome, good luck! Just remember that while the salami shot can help you recognize the characteristics of under- and over-extraction, any single sample doesn't represent the shot as a whole. But it is a good learning exercise. AJ

[@erlynlopez9731]

Good info AJ, always appreciated.. question I have is would data be different with other types of coffee beans? (Roast, Robusta, Arabica, organic).

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Good question. The ideas still apply and the trends should be similar, however the numbers would likely be a little different. For example, dark roasts are more soluble than light roasts, so I'd expect the TDS and EY to be even more front-loaded. For a dark roast, I'd grind a little courser, pull a shorter shot, or decrease my temperature. It would be interesting to compare the data on Robusta vs. Arabica. AJ

[@erlynlopez9731]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you AJ, maybe that can be another video comparing Arabica vs Robusta. Thank you again

[@garfairsodd1857]

Good job, please keep doing this. I like it 🙂

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks, will do! AJ

[@hanna0322]

Hi AJ, I'm so confused. I'm a newbie to the semi-automatic espresso world, and I'm getting 3 superautomatic machines and 1 ECM Synchronika w/ flow control for the kitchen. I'm getting a Ceado E37S grinder. There is a lot to learn to use a semi-automatic machine. Our family (mom, hubby and me) loves coffee, and of course, we want to get the best shot out of the machine. If you see this comment, can you please share all the video links I must watch to learn? What flow rate, temperature, grind size, how to have a consistent dose for single and double shots, and how long to extract to get the tasty coffee? Mom uses 1 shot, and my hubby and I always use double shots. Do we need multiple portafilters with different basket sizes? Do I need an Acaia Lunar scale? If yes, for what? I need special training like a Barista course if there's one available. I know how to use a Jack leveler, and I'll upgrade to the recommended shower screen and basket.

[@sonyccd]

More of this please

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You got it! AJ

[@youngrc212]

Great stuff!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you! AJ

[@A266509]

Great video

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you, Dante! AJ

[@davidthomson4045]

Connecting variables like extraction temp with shot quality, and adjust them, would be great.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Great idea. Added to the list. AJ

[@KOZ-k1p]

Would like to see you investigate Turbo shots. I started last week and I think i’m a convert!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Good idea, added to the list. Thanks! AJ

[@udemy_course]

please make one video that explains for beginners how to start brewing from 0 to hero, with all the set of rules we need to do it right...

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Not a bad idea, but that would be a LONG video. In the meantime, here are a few that will break it up into more digestible bites, starting from beginner and working up: How To Dial In Grind Size for Espresso: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIC8aHdmZ9Nnedk Water Filtration for Best Coffee & Espresso Flavor and Equipment Protection: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6eciIZ_jdmjpdU How to Fix Espresso Extractions: Timing, Taste & More: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWGpYqF_e5ZgrJo Espresso Brew Ratios Explained: Ristretto, Lungo, and More: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jZrJfYWAj7Cmb6M Better Espresso Using Easy Flow Profiling Methods: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l160coKlbbuaa6M AJ

[@penultimatename6677]

I have asked this question on other channels but haven't gotten a satisfactory answer. I was wondering if you might comment. The density of the bean is influenced by the altitude, how it is grown, Maybe how it is processed and definitely by the roast level. When purchasing different beans we are stuck experimenting with the grind size. Which means the first grind likely will be over or under extracted. There must be a caliper type of device that can determine density. Then through experiment with one's grinder we might be able to get closer to the grind size on the first shot. Determine the density and adjust the grinder based on previous density tests. This assumes the same density of any bean will result in the same grind setting. Ending up with a shot you would not throw away. Good enough for the next shot with a small adjustment to get pretty close to perfect. I know perfect is in the eye of the beholder. I did recently purchase a glass calibrated tube that can measure density. At least the website explains how to do it. I have not tried it yet. Is this a crazy idea or one to consider?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Interesting idea and I don't think it's crazy, but I do think the assumption that the same density of any bean will result in the same grind setting is a big one. There are a lot of variables at play that influence the extraction for different beans, and density is just one. Different types of beans roasted at different levels may have similar densities but different chemical makeup or level of solubility. This can affect your ideal flow rate, ideal temperature, etc. I'm interested in your calibrated tube though and think it's a worthwhile experiment. Feel free to report back! AJ

[@1proatc]

I would like to see a video with the same methods, but with a flow control machine, and the variable the flow control would present.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Good idea. Maybe I'll redo to the testing with flow control for a future video. AJ

[@YuqingChan]

i think a video like this, but with drip/pour over would be very interesting

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Absolutely. Thanks for the suggestion! AJ

[@ahmettanriverdi5238]

Wow! This is 'sciencepresso'.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Haha nice! AJ

[@seanferguson6728]

excellent!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thank you! AJ

[@espressofun6091]

Nice! I think you should present these numbers in terms of output weight. Time varies quite a bit and is not as good as output weight.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You're completely right. Honestly, I wanted to present cumulative TDS vs cumulative EY but spent far too long trying to calculate the TDS across multiple samples. You can't just average your readings because of variation in sample size, and you can't adjust for weight because TDS is weight-per-volume, and I didn't know the volumes of each sample. Only after publishing the video did I realize since I can calculate both the cumulative EY and cumulative yield, I could work backwards and calculate cumulative TDS. Seems obvious now... Anyway, here's that graph: i.imgur.com/MTBl5Bw.png Oddly, my trend is quite different from how I've seen strength vs extraction represented elsewhere, such as in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3O3aGCvhLqAeq8 Any idea why that might be? By the way, I follow your IG account. Good stuff. I'll have to try the staccato shot at some point! AJ

[@KrishnenduKes]

This is fascinating. But I wonder how this data can be useful to make great tasting espresso.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Krishnendu, very true that this video is more data-focused than a how-to on making good espresso. I'm hoping that understanding the strength vs. extraction relationship, being able to tell the difference between under- and over-extraction, and what to do to shift the trends in the direction you want, will help make better espresso. There are a lot of different factors in play and directions this could go in, and exploring all of them would be a very, very long video. Luckily, we have many different smaller videos on the channel breaking up different ideas into more digestible topics. Here's one that might be a little more of what you're looking for: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWGpYqF_e5ZgrJo AJ

[@KrishnenduKes]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you very much AJ for the reply. It did clarify a lot of ideas for me. Like strength Vs extraction etc.

[@chandalshaitan]

What is strength again. ? Sorry i dont understand wnat is strength clearly

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi c, we're using TDS: Total Dissolved Solids to measure strength.

[@willmcgregor7184]

Interesting Good Espresso ain’t simple.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

A very accurate statement. AJ

[@judithverheijden8588]

More nerdy stuff please!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

You got it! AJ

[@SG-AKAR]

That Ceado dwarfs that new ECM 😆

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Haha yeah, I felt a little silly putting them next to each other, but I've been loving the Puristika and the E37S is my go-to grinder, so it seemed like a good combo for this video. AJ

[@carlesmiquel]

Absolutely! You should make more scientific and in-depth videos. Most of your material is an explanation on how machines work (espresso machines, grinders, accessories) which are your business. Modern espresso is CRAZY. Barely resembling what espresso was when created. You have the people, the wits and a company to make the best scientific content. By far. Do it!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey Carlos, thanks for the comment. We try to present a good balance of machine info, tech tips, and more generalized topics (dialing in, latte art, etc.), but it's true that the equipment is what drives our business and awards us the opportunity to make videos in the first place. That said, you are completely correct that there is some wild stuff going on with modern espresso, and we fully intend to explore and showcase it more! AJ

[@carlesmiquel]

@@Wholelattelovepage Totally agree! You do a great job. I'd call this an expansion outside the realms of only business. And you do a great job there too!

[@justinbouchard]

Extraction yield "numbers" won't justify themselves to differentiate the process. If you have a more even extraction over the whole puck it's quite possible for you to have a lower average of extraction. If you extract 100% of only 20% of the puck you'll get 20% extraction average. If you extraction 50% of 40% of the puck it's the same average of extraction. So the extraction yield is honestly meaningless if you actually want to science. It's basically impossible to decipher those numbers without completely extracting the rest of the pucks after the shot is taken to derive how much solubles are actually left in the puck.

[@udemy_course]

at least something professional!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks for watching! AJ

[@almightygoz21]

Great video.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Thanks Harold! AJ