DIY Lithium Car Battery to start my V8 from a123 LIfePO4 cells

A123 cells: ebay.us/DIDBme
4s 330a BMS (they now have 380a version!): s.click.aliexp...
Battery box: www.aliexpress...

[@Ivansgarage]

These work really good 4s 4p Headway 38140S 12Ah LiFePO4 Cell... 8 batteries total

[@211212112]

I came across 20 Amp hour battery packs for charging cellphones at wal-mart in the clerance aisle for $2 each. I got the idea to make a car battery. I took the packs out of their original case and soldered on thicker positive and negative cables. Then I cut rectangles out of 1/8 inch thick aluminum sheets. I cut them so they were 1/2 inch bigger than packs all the way around. I put thermal putty between the packs and the metal. I put a metal sheet then a battery pack then metal sheet the BMS and such the. A metal sheet then a battery pack then metal sheet then battery pack then metal sheet and so on. This way the battery I built was compact, lightweight, had a lot of passive cooling, I have way more cranking amps and capacity than normal car batteries. It was awesome.

[@FBPrepping]

Any updates? have you had any problem with your battery so far? we're eager to know! thanks in advance.

[@BCKA-rx3tr]

FK YES.. that cranked amazing and finally someone uses the product in a REAL American car.. Tip for you though 3 years later I know.. Those lead battery terminals are not great for cars its better you use just a toyota or lexus OEM terminal thats copper and steel.. I can't wait to put one of these in the v8 Ranger.. o.0

[@huckfin1100]

Did you have to change the charging alternator from the engine that charges the battery

[@blackz06]

I have an 11.6:1 LT1 that I started with a single bank of Headway cells which are only 8Ah. I'm getting ready to see if just 4 of the A123 cells will start it. Probably struggle, but 8 cells will definitely do it.

[@scottpetersen2028]

An insulating sheet between the positive and negative group would be a good idea, if the wrap wears between the groups it will short, just an idea, I know it's an old vid, but still good info. also what happens when the BMS disconnects from the car when fully charged, does the voltage spike?

[@gearheadlife1576]

whats the long term success on this. and what did it cost ?

[@nbtesh]

Hi, Im following in your footsteps, I have the A123 ready. I was wondering if you had any problems with overheating your Alternator?

[@bigdilliams]

how is your alternator doing? can it handle the amps draw by the lithium battery?

[@roberthorvath1563]

You think I’d be fine running only half the cells to start a stock 9.x:1 cr v8? Needing a new battery, and I’d rather run these

[@M4K9G22]

1P4S using unprotected a123 cells without a BMS will start a car. Your limitation is probably in the BMS or connection between cells.

[@johnnybaird2687]

What was the cost of this build? I’m really interested in building a battery like this. Thank you for the video!

[@alexanderwexler2378]

I wonder what will happen if BMS disonnects the battery for whatever reason while vehicle is running?

[@stompylee]

Nothing really as long as it isn’t a start stop vehicle. The alternator will carry it till the car is really shut down. Once a vehicle starts the alternator does the electric work and recharges the battery. It should show a battery alert but usually doesn’t.

[@DIYCOMMUNITYHACK]

Quick question. Is the charging amps is 60 at 12.4-14.7, for example. Is it okay even though the alternators output is 180amps? Does the bms shorten its life?

[@berthabohannan7462]

Well all aside I'm wondering how the charging circuit is going to work can the alternator actually function without overheating but what happened if the battery got run down so that light was left on and for some reason you were able to still start the engine now the alternator sees hundreds of amps I just wonder can somebody tell me if that's going to work without having to use a Smart alternator

[@BrioncedReviews]

Following this for updates

[@yeshanj]

I would say spot welding didn't workout just because of the glue residue. You could have done a neat job if you wiped off the residue properly with alcohol or something.

[@ericklein5097]

Probably right. Spot welding with a copper nickel sandwich would have been perfect here

[@gregb1714]

You should probably put an insulator between the two battery stacks - the cell case voltages between the two stacks is different and for high vibration, not good to only depend on the cell sleeves for insulation. Hope you added insulation between the battery pack and the BMS too. Don't know if you live in a cold area but LiFePO4 batteries should Not be charged if the temperature is below freezing!

[@sideproject4028]

It does! I probably didn't show it in the video. But I do have strips of shrink wrap between series connections. But I should add insulation between pack and BMS! Thanks for input! Loved to hear it! PS I am in texas, so cold isn't that much of an issues, normally :)

[@ericklein5097]

@@sideproject4028 Barley Paper or Fish Paper is what you want to use. Try to find the thick stuff

[@curits8260]

what the cco?

[@beardedmonocle]

Thank you so much for this video!

[@anthonycraig274]

I have a Nissan Leaf 2016 but wonder if it is capable to take a LiFePo4 battery. As it would be configured to charge a sealed lead acid battery can it successfully charge a LiFePo4. Charge voltage 14.1 - 14.3 with an Ampere of up to 120A. Will this be the job of the BMS of the battery or the DC to DC converter of the car.

[@Mchacz8008]

You might consider putting your new battery in the back, as LiFePo4 batteries don't like heat.

[@eco_guardian]

I would love to know what settings you put into the bms.

[@PatricksDIY]

7:58 Yikes, that is SO much heat being applied to those Cells it seemed like a long time while it was sped up. You turned those bottom plates into a mini stove top burner for a bit. based on what is out there, no more than 350C for 3 seconds, looks like you were blasting that with 300 watts / 600c forever seconds lol.

[@ericklein5097]

yeah the internal resistance of these cells probably took a hit

[@al73r]

Nah those things are beasts!

[@ledgendairy3056]

You need more copper buss bars. like 30 0 gauge would work

[@ritchycamaro]

Hi there, nice vid! I have build a 4s17p battery with the same cells. Now called lithium werks ANR26650M1-B. I build it for my diesel rv. Been working now without a bms, doing fine. I just curious when it's winter time and freezing. My plan is to before starting the engine, first turn on lights etc to heat up the battery internally. And then start the vehicle after say 5 mins. According to specs you could charge them with 0,25 A when freezing. But apart from that, cells are doing great. Just topbalanced once, they stay equal. Just to be sure I installed a passive balancer. How do you deal when it's freezing? Chiao Rijk Netherlands

[@MrAlvarez919]

Where are you located? So your battery you made is essentially a 12V 42.5Ah battery?

[@ritchycamaro]

@@MrAlvarez919 Live in the Netherlands. Yes its working fine so far.

[@FBPrepping]

@@ritchycamaro Hey there Rijk. My grampa was from the Netherlands. I'm from Venezuela. No problem with low temps here. LOL. How has been working your battery without the BMS? I'm interested in getting a diesel for my busted SUV. Lead acid batteries and other basic spare parts are so expensive to get in this thug-controlled country that it's more cost effective to get LiFePO4 cells and put my own battery together, but the needed BMS raises the cost a little. Let me know please. I would appreciate it. Greetings.

[@ritchycamaro]

@@FBPrepping Hi Jose, yes i'v been using my lifepo4 battery for few months. Traveling trough europe. It works perfectly. No BMS because of cost, and reliability. If bms breaks i would be stuck somewhere, haha. I have build the battery of 4 blocks of 17 cells. After building these blocks i left connected parralel for few days to balance while charging to 3,55 v. Then they were connected in series. The alternator delivers max 14,2 v that is 3,55 v per block. So if the alternator stays ok, the battery is fine. After 3 months of use the cells are within 0,008 v of balance. Just check your battery charge/discharge voltages regularly and you are fine. I also installed a battery monitor inside the batterybox: ANCEL BM300 12V Battery Tester, ordered from aliexpress. To se the voltages on my phone, and also log data for 30 days. Also shows starting and alternator voltages. O and i installed a small balancer. Good luck building! The batterys Lithiumwerks i ordered from NKON here in holland, good price and oversees shipping. Chiao from Holland!

[@paveljelinek772]

I am afraid of one thing.. it's called cell balancing.. you know 7.2V can bee reeched by 2series connected batteries, each at 3.6V.. also, 1 battery could bee at 4.0V and the other could bee at 3.2V (talking li ions of course).. these balance modules you can sea in laptop batteries for example and can bee active or passive.. well i am not fully aware of lifepo chemistry and assuming they work as a ni-mh for example, everything should bee fine.. because from what i've seen, you connected all phases from bms to the last series.. assuming your bms can doo a balancing and you just screwed it up..

[@ericklein5097]

These cells stay in balance like you wouldn't believe so long as you top balance them first

[@jasonbroom7147]

It is my understanding that only lithium-titanate is really appropriate for the amount of current flow demanded by all of the conditions a starting battery might face, particularly under cold conditions. You were really taxing these LiFePO4 cells to make this "work"...but is it really a viable design for a cranking battery? Probably not.

[@nbtesh]

Actually, these particular cells, A123 NanoPhosphate are rated at 120A Burst. They are perfect for this scenario. Go look the statsheet

[@jasonbroom7147]

@@nbtesh - A typical automotive starter motor will draw 250 amps, under normal testing conditions, and can draw twice that when temperatures are at or below freezing. A normal lead-acid automotive battery will have between 600 and 850 "cold cranking amps". These batteries are nowhere near "perfect" for year-round application as a cranking battery. If they were, you would see them being sold as such, on the market. You might know the statsheet on these batteries...but you don't know starter motors, apparently.

[@AlexLTDLX]

@@jasonbroom7147 That's unnecessarily harsh and you happen to be wrong. The spec he gave you is PER CELL. In a burst mode those cells can melt your starter. And mark my words - lead acid is on it's way out for good. Being shitty when you're wrong is the worst kind of being wrong. LiFePo4 deliver more power at any temperature than lead acid. In extreme cold, they just shouldn't be charged. But that's not much of a problem - just have a charging temp cutoff. Below -20* C, just have a thermostatic relay to wait until they warm up above -20* C after the car starts - which should only take a few minutes IN THE ARCTIC. In most other places on earth, that would happen rather infrequently...

[@jasonbroom7147]

@@AlexLTDLX - Nice try, but here comes the math: So those cells are capable of a 120A "burst". Arranged in a 4s configuration, you're claiming they can deliver 4 times that, right? (You're wrong, but let's just say you weren't...) That's still only 480 amps, AND they are not able to deliver that over and over, for 10, 20, 30 seconds, during cold conditions. Have you ever lived in a cold climate? Have you ever owned a vehicle that doesn't start in 2 or 3 seconds? Have you ever rebuilt a starter motor? Your understanding of battery chemistries is sorely lacking.

[@Ultrasonictwo]

@@jasonbroom7147 err he has 16 of these cells in parallel so 120a * 16 = 1920amps

[@ericklein5097]

I would be way too concerned about temperature to waste some A123 cells in an engine bay. I was rather surprised that it didn't start on the first try but if its been sitting a while that would make sense. There's a video on here of a 4S1P pack starting a small car.

[@FelixgreenYT]

I don't see why you would want to do this. (I'm a solar hobbyist myself)

[@eksine]

lead acid VS lithium lifepo4 life cycle count, usable capacity, amp output, however I've written an article and have said lifepo4 isn't possible, literally the temperature range says it's impossible without permanent damage. lithium titanate is the only chemistry that can handle temperatures that a car would see daily

[@vevenaneathna]

@@eksineold comment but worth saying that lead battery market has become monopolized in the US over the last 5 years. now only 1 mfg and car batteries are 200-300$ and last 3-4 years instead of 5-7 and are all mostly made in mexico with poor fiberglass cathode design and minimal space in the bottom to allow deeper cycling. you can literally build a similar car battery out of lifepo4 for 30$ (1/10th the price) if you ignore the BMS which usually causes more issues than it prevents in automotive application. insulate it and put a 20watt silcon heating pad and relay thermostat, another 5$ in parts for cold weather. even if you have to replace it every other month it will still be cheaper than buying lead acid batteries right now. lower weight + internal resistance of lifepo4 batteries will also theoretically give you improved gas mileage.

[@eksine]

@@vevenaneathna see I don't get the heating pad thing. if for an RV it could work. but for a car you don't know when you need the car in winter. the heating pad would have to be on a timer or plugged into an AC source with transformer for DC. it's impractical. once the car is started and starts charging your lifepo4, it's going to cause permanent damage in cold. I still say lithium titanate is the only choice you have unless theres other ones than can handle the cold.

[@vevenaneathna]

@@eksine theres like 1$ 12v relay boards you can buy that have a thermocouple and you can set the temperature range you want them to keep. the battery turns on the small heating pad for a few minutes to raise the battery temperature above freezing, were talking like 5 watt per hour in the cold, a small lifepo4 will keep itself above freezing for months. probably less power drain than a lead acid has normally. you can put a resettable thermal fuse in line with the heating element if you dont trust the thermostat board. LTO is so expensive for meh performance and poor volumetric efficiency, youre better off just building a lifepo4 battery that doesnt let itself get too cold for half the price.

[@blazejmroczynski6190]

What says insurance company about that 🤔 Good luck 🤞