DLC Bookclub - HOUSE OF CHAINS - MALAZAN BOOK OF THE FALLEN - Prologue + Chapters 1 & 2

Jeff and Lana are back to begin their read through of the fourth novel in the Tales of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erikson, entitled House of Chains.
They start off this episode with some NON-Spoiler thoughts about the beginning of this book, including whether those intimidated by the earlier novels might want to start here!
Then, they discuss in detail the thrilling prologue and first two chapters.
Special thanks to Emily Bachynski for the DLC Bookclub theme song. Find more of her work at www.badbuddy.b...
Link to the reading guide mentioned: docs.google.co....
DLC Bookclub Discord: / discord

[@stevelundin5705]

It's generally well-known by now that the opening 'book' of House of Chains was my response to criticisms that I was incapable of staying with a single point-of-view. The point I made then was this: not doing something doesn't mean I can't do something. The Malazan series was designed with a multitude of POVs in mind, to underscore the point that the story was bigger than any single character. Once that decision was made, I applied short story writing techniques to the narrative; namely, a short story, of necessity, must compress characterization. This compression meant that, sentence-by-sentence, the narrative needed to carry more weight. When you compress characterization, the expectation on the reader changes (and this, by the way, is where I lost readers, since their expectation was a novel written in a novelistic style, that is to say, a more leisurely style, and I can't complain about that decision. It's valid). I knew therefore that GotM would be something of a primer for readers, but that was a gamble I was prepared to take. Book One of House of Chains, ironically, is itself a compressed novel. Two parallel narratives are at work in those first four chapters. The surface narrative belongs to Karsa's POV, and it's a driven, narrow, even truncated POV, limited by his ego and his worldview, with all the blind-spots that entails. The other narrative comes via other characters, especially Bairoth (Bay-roth), whose commentary sends a direct but alternate message to the reader. In a sense, telling the reader to suspect Karsa's POV, as they should. This provides an out from what could have been an oppressive (and profoundly unlikable) main POV. It also signposts that I (as writer) am not all-in on Karsa's way of seeing the world, and that, accordingly, the overall narrative has a lesson to deliver to Karsa. Anyway, hope that makes sense. Cheers, SE. Oh, and as for how it all wraps round the series narrative, you're almost there. Two chapters to get to the 'ah-ha' moment.

[@danielgwynne7266]

IT IS TIME TO WITNESS

[@mikeiwo845]

Karsa charging Silver Lake always invokes "Galahad's charge at the wedding" scene from Holy Grail. The guards just standing there confused. Karsa running, Guards smiling, Karsa running. Quards wave. Mayham and carnage...

[@Ad4msI]

My excerpt for this section comes from the prologue: “The Shorning was an absolute thing, an irreversible act of severance. He was now outcast. To his brothers, he had ceased to exist. He would not be mourned. His deeds would vanish from memory along with his name. His mother and father would have birthed one less child. This was, for his people, the most dire punishment-worse than execution by far. Yet, Trull Sengar had committed no crime.”

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

malazan was originally only set in Quon tali and malaz city and while Steve and Ian gamed they used to listen to Steely Dan’s song called dr wu. Ian’s character he made was called Dr wu and that became kellenved. Which is why the whole world of malazan is actually called “Wu”

[@dreddiknight]

So it's not canned Wu because Steven is a big fan of the Wu Rang Clan then? Damn... Bang goes my head cannon!😂

[@quinnloucks2869]

I’m reading along for the first time with you- a few weeks behind right-someone mentioned above that it’s not a spoiler to say this part is taking place at the same time as Gardens of the Moon. True not a spoiler because I just finished chapter 2 this morning and I think Jeff and Lana missed that Torvald says explicitly that the Malazan armies were currently bogged down outside of Pale. Also I was surprised they didn’t discuss the appearance of the 7 Stone Faces OR what Calm whispers to Karsa. It seems clear that he’s being used by these seven spirits that were buried by Calm-they need him to deliver them souls so they can break out. Calm says she crushed their bones and buried them so that sounds like the Jaghuts that were crushed and buried in the high plains the Chain of Dogs passes. My theory-and those that know can just smile and let me be wrong-is that the “one” they are serving and mention is either a Jaghut Tyrant, or the Cripple God. Just a theory but there’s definitely someone scarier behind them.

[@eugenemurphy6037]

Karsa is so heavy-metal

[@SouravUldyssian]

LOVE your enthusiasm on these 2 chapters and can't wait for the next week, its going to be even more awesome. But after that will have to see how you like the rest of the books as this is a divisive one. The readers are supposed to find Karsa awful and not supposed to celebrate him, as Erickson was trying to explore cultural relativism and the trope of noble savage through him. You missed the part about Karsa's mother being the first rebel in their society and probably being a big influence on his dad, and probably why she was killed. So here's some points based on things you already know. Regarding the place and the map, in this book the map is given for North West Genabackis, and if you compare that with the full map of Genabackis from GOTM or MOI, you will get where it is taking place. Kalam and the kids. Those kids were crucified by the revolution, specifically Korbolo Dom in DG, and Apt the demon saved them and took to Shadowthrone. It was Shadowthrone that assigned them to Kalam and Minala for training. Mappo is a Trell, we have not met any other Trell. It was mentioned in the last book that the Jaghut are not violent, rather they were mostly peaceful and isolationists. Only few of them became tyrants and enslaved the Imass, and the other Jaghut actually helped the Imass deal with the tyrants, before the Imass became T'lan Imass and decided to kill all Jaghut.

[@liamcarragher7459]

Woo we're back! Just to throw my two pence in regarding reading order. My reluctance to starting people with this novel would be that it gives people a false sense of the greater narative. This is a one of with regards to a solo point of view narrative and would be worried it would confuse people even more once they get past these chapters that the rest of the books jump about. I think it hits better once your used to jumping about for 3 books and it suddenly draws you in to pay more attention than ever it feels to this one character. And Jeff Sengar is a family name of those people. Silgar is just a first name. Also the teblor aren't jaghuts in a 1:1 way. They are the spawn/subspecies of jaghut along with a few other offshoots you will meet in further books. But Icarium definetly had a purpose and reason behind wanting to control and as lana put so well 'de-evlove' this sub species. Another point I think is cool to not miss about the raid on silverlake. Is karsa realising how much has changed since the stories he heard of palk raiding a 'villiage' but two generations later in teblor time means the village is now a sprawling town/small city with walls and defences. But again so happy to guys are back! Love listening to your takes and first impressions of these books we all love so much ❤️

[@Tremain]

Ahhh I missed this.

[@josephglaser4081]

I have to say Jeff and Lana’s reaction surprised me and now I feel like a crazy person. I found the shift to one characters perspective jarring and far less enjoyable than the first three novels. The bigger issue is that Karsa is someone I never want to spend time with. I’ve read the first three chapters so far and he is only driven by violence. I will say that I am not great on keeping all the details in my head which is why I couldn’t read these books without these videos, but man I am bummed right now.

[@josephglaser4081]

To be fair Karsa does treat his dogs well and I greatly appreciate that.

[@FranzBinder20]

I felt exactly the same, when I read the books the first time. Also because I thought it would immediately get back to another story line I was impatient to continue.

[@josephglaser4081]

I’m glad I’m not alone. I am in chapter six now and enjoying it much more. The Kara’s detour was just not for me.

[@bookswithbanks8943]

I love the passion you guys bring to your discussion. I would say book 4 is one of the more divisive ones, BUT it is just as ripe for discussion, if not more so, than the previous 3. I can't wait to hear what y'all think going forward.

[@Margo0000]

I love, love, ❤️ Michael Page's audiobook narration. His Karsa and Torvald are tops.

[@slidenaway]

Okay overall comment… you are both so much more hyped for these chapters than most people lol. I mean I get why and I agree they’re awesome, but wow!!! I forgot just how much happens in only 2 chapters. It’s crazy how fully fleshed out the Teblor society and our main characters are, and then how quickly the action just HAPPENS and how far they travel and all of a sudden Karsa is captured for a SECOND time. Incredibly dense chapters really. Oh and you got to meet Torvald Nom, who is just as cool as Rallick Nom, if in totally different ways. Don’t worry, more to come. As for some of your speculations and analysis… some of it is wrong but I’m not gonna say what cause spoilers, and I THINK you’ll get clarification soon enough. I mean I think you’ll put pieces together to correct things. So mum is the word for now. As for timeline - it’s not a spoiler to say this starts before the beginning of GotM by like… 4 years? I think it’s 1159 BS vs 1163 BS. No need to check ALL the dates so far lol, just check this date against the beginning of GotM. Oh and about the epilogue… I like Jeff saying it’ll make sense by the end of the book. Bwahahahahaha. That’s funny, for reasons I won’t go into now 😏

[@drewbu]

Last week I saw Under Majordomo Minor for $3 and said “hey! I know that cover!” A quick, charming read.

[@robinirm650]

Let's go! I'm re-reading the series (book 6 atm) and finished House of Chains in July kinda quickly during a week of nightshift work, so it's going to be great to follow along and let you guys refresh my memory.

[@StarUnreal]

I just started catching up on episodes after my vacation, and I wanted to get into the topic of the reading order a bit: Over on the Malazan subreddit, we've discussed reading order a lot. Starting with the first section of HoC is not an opinion I've seen come up often, for various reasons. It's definitely an interesting idea, and I see a lot of merit in it for more traditional fantasy readers. I think it's promising because it does not require a reader to read an entire book out of the intended order. It works as a 'taster'. I do, however, wonder if it sells the series as something its not. Would those readers that didn't much like Gardens of the Moon really be able to go back and enjoy it after reading the first section of House of Chains? Would they enjoy the rest of the series that is structurally similar to Gardens? I am someone who has pushed others to try different reading orders. I have had a few friends start the series on my recommendation, and not a one of them made it even halfway through Gardens of the Moon. Gardens is a fine fantasy book, but it's not a great book. It's almost like a flimsy shadow cast by the greatness of the books that follow it. It has some moments of greatness; some moments of promise. The rest of the series takes those moments and runs with them to create something truly incredible. I almost dropped the series after I finished Gardens. I would not blame anybody for betting against those moments of promise. Which is to say that I support alternative reading orders. Yet it must be said that any alternate reading order comes with issues and drawbacks to varying degrees, but each one of them more problematic than release order. Erikson wrote these books truly building off the previous in many different respects. There are ways you can interrupt that order without interrupting the plot, but there are problems that arise which are not the plot. Once you've finished the series, you can look back and realize each book truly has its own place and its own special task in making the series whole. Of course, none of this matters if somebody doesn't like the first book and never reads the rest. I might use the first book of House of Chains as a recommendation to new readers; if they aren't feeling Gardens. Alternatively, I think the next book in the series is a fantastic starting place, and it does a better job of selling the actual structure of MBotF. Finally, I think Forge of Darkness, the first book in the prequel series, is a good place to start for a more cerebral, patient, and potentially older reader. It is Erikson's finest prose and most pertinent ideas on immediate display in a smaller and more self-contained story. It is simultaneously more subdued (especially in the action department), and also more emotionally breathtaking. Some readers have asked if they can start with Deadhouse Gates, as their library or bookstore didn't have a copy of Gardens of the Moon, and while that presents some obvious continuity problems, I think it can be a valid choice as well. The prologue to Deadhouse Gates certainly kicks down the doors and immediately shows a reader what they're getting into.

[@Margo0000]

Welcome back!! Hilarious episode. Love that Kylo Ren reference. Also Lana saying that Karsa needs to chill on the vows. LOL! That Teblor god section might be worth a reread if you have time later (especially their description). There’s some juicy nuggets in there for sure. Jeff hit on it with how religion is great for controlling a people. The current Teblor culture is definitely sus. Sounds like Karsa’s dad and mom were onto whatever is going on. Bairoth was also questioning things.

[@burningglass7609]

So excited y'all are back at it! I've been reading along with the show, but I cheated and finished House of Chains a while back. I had a very hard time with these first two chapters, mostly because I was so disinterested/disgusted by Karsa. I did not enjoy being in those shoes. It was funny because I kept having the thought "well, it's Malazan, so we'll be switching POV soon...right?"

[@longtermparking4]

Very late of me to mention and ultimately unimportant (I think), but I took the "yellow bark" to be paper i.e. books, following the whole "purposefully regress the culture" thing. Been doing a re-read/second attempt on the series and listening to these along the way - hoping to be caught up more or less in time for Midnight Tides!

[@JohnAnderssonSWE]

9:30 - If you don't wont to start with Gardens... then I (and many malaz-fans with me) would say that book 5 is the best alternative starting point. For reasons that are spoilery. Going to be VERY interesting to hear your thoughts. After my first read, this was my least favorite. For reasons that will be obvious as you read. As I'm currently re-reading the series, and revisited House of Chains this summer, it suddenly surged and became a top contender for best in the series. For other reasons that will also be obvious.

[@eugenemurphy6037]

bros! bros! bros! lmao good point.

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

So many of your thoughts are like mine ahahaha love this episode

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

Just a quick clarification, Erikson did not say he necessarily tried to "one up" himself with HoC, he said that he took a "unique approach"

[@slidenaway]

Yeah I thought Jeff wasn’t remembering quite right lol, thanks for calling this out!

[@Latienie_]

Really? I could have sworn he said one up himself during our interview last week....🤔

[@slidenaway]

@@Latienie_ he mentioned having the thought “how do I one up MoI” and the answer was “don’t try - take a unique approach.” Something like that

[@BreinGames]

Dang it. I’m still on book 3!!! I need to hurry up!

[@IzzyZil20]

Witness!

[@LusipherPE]

Like all the Malazan books, there's so much that happens that is both incredible and horrifying, but the ending is so deeply personal for me that House of Chains is the one book out of both Erikson's and Esselmont's books that constantly returns to my thoughts

[@nojohns1748]

Yes! we have finally reached ,my favorite chapters of the entire S.E.R.I.E.S.

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

Burn's Sleep abbreviates to BS... just keep that in mind 😂

[@eugenemurphy6037]

Mappo is a "Trell" not a jaghut, non-spoiler made clear in DHG :)

[@Paul_van_Doleweerd]

'Trell' is analogous to 'Troll', for the d&d nerds. 😅

[@SouravUldyssian]

Its early today.

[@marcoceriani1069]

32:00 they are actual children. They were left to die on pikes by the rebels in Deadhouse Gates, and Kalam wanted to save them, but could not alone. Apt, the demon, convinced Shadowthrone to save them. It was before Kalam met Minala. Then our favourite uncle Shady gifted Kalam with this nice little family.

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

Finally 😊🎉

[@moresoysauce5489]

Missed you guys!

[@slidenaway]

Ahhhhh I AM SO FIRST I AM SO EXCITED

[@Plaeya01]

I promise I'm reading along but my theory is Karsa Orlong is the Toblakai and those 7 gods were the guys who summoned the cripple god... guess I'll find out soon

[@Margo0000]

Also ❤ how Karsa's favorite god has the user name of Mossy Bone. Haha

[@waldo8791]

47:58 definitely do that

[@EricMcLuen]

There are so many reasons you should hate Karsa but you just cant take your eyes off the page. This book is dedicated to the player of Karsa. Erickson didnt tell him who the children were. Ten Very Big Books interviewed him I dont recall if if gets spoilery beyond Karsa.

[@Angzt]

The planet is never named in any of the books. The community has been calling it "Wu", which I believe originates from a joking comment SE made on the matter.

[@bobbob-cd9yl]

malazan was originally only set in Quon talk and malaz city and while Steve and Ian games they used to listen to Stevie downes’ song called dr wu. Ian’s character he made was called Dr wu and that became kellenved. Which is why the whole world of malazan is actually called “Wu”

[@snarfbomber298]

20:20 the way you’re describing Karsa’s family dynamic as .. Belligerent boastful grandfather leads to meek peaceful father leads to belligerent aggressive son . This reminds me of the online narrative surrounding gen x to millennial to Gen z. I just thought that was an interesting archetypal narrative

[@slidenaway]

Okay so… really interesting ideas about these chapters being a hook for new readers. It might be spoiler-y to say this, but I think you know: all of HoC is not like this. And I know you weren’t really recommending a new reader read this whole book first before GotM but Jeff you kinda hinted at that???? Also, if someone loves these chapters, I could easily see them still struggling with GotM, being like “well why is this so complicated and messy, I have to get through three books of this to get to the NORMAL stuff in book 4????” Thoughts?