DLSS4 Transformer Model vs CNN Performance in Cyberpunk 2077 - RTX 4090

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

@Terraware did an awesome job comparing visuals here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXyTXpZpj6mchZY

[@ultraplus_]

An absolute win for 20, 30, and 40 series users.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah, looking forward to competent people doing image quality comparisons. From my little testing the image quality is definitely improved in certain areas, especially when it comes to fine lines and overhead lights.

[@ultraplus_]

​@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Same here. From my quick tests, I noticed a lot of improvements too, especially with fine details like fences and parallel lines. Excited to see more in depth comparisons as well :D. I also noticed that 4K DLSS Performance looks as good as DLSS Quality, only slightly softer in a few specific scenes. That’s a definite win for users on older generations who want to boost performance while keeping quality nearly the same.

[@noctisofrivia8778]

Stop playing rn bro 😟 You are looking at fake quality 🤓☝

[@ultraplus_]

You do you, bro. You're missing out on a lot by being a native resolution purist xD. Why dodge a new technology that significantly improves image quality while also boosting performance? Just to clarify, we’re discussing the super resolution aspect here, not the frame gen. For frame gen, I agree, it still causes some artifacts most of the time. But if you only care about the image quality aspect, it’s a no brainer, especially with the new model. Maybe it’s time to show us that you can create a better technology? Come on, don’t be shy now 🤓☝

[@noctisofrivia8778]

@@ultraplus_ I'm LITERALLY making fun of NVIDIA haters

[@robertsafar2908]

huge visual diference is with path tracing and ray reconstruction enabled

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Just tried it in Stalker 2, and there it makes an even bigger difference than Cyberpunk in my opinion. The game looks as if it is being rendered at a much higher resolution for about a 2% cost to performance. This Transformer model is really good!

[@AexoeroV]

I have path tracing and ray reconstruction enabled and i dont see much of a difference between Transformer Model and CNN, both on DLSS Quality in 4K!

[@AexoeroV]

​@@Mostly_Positive_Reviewshey,min STALKER 2 do you have the option to turn on and off Transformer Model or how you made a comparison?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

@ Hey, I used NVPI and a custome .xml file to force preset J in Stalker 2.

[@AexoeroV]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews i see, thanks!

[@gabber_]

The Transformer model in Quality setting really impressed me. 1440p completely indistinguishable from native, even during movement and on distant detail. I hope people can find a way to rip the DLL so we can use it in other games that won't get patched.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

It really does look good yeah. You'll be able to override it using the Nvidia App for the games that wont get updated.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

This is just a short video showing the differences in performance between the new Transformer Model and the old Convolution Neural Network DLSS modes in Cyberpunk 2077. As I mentioned I'll leave the image quality comparisons to the professionals as I'm really not good at making those kinds of videos.

[@TheAmericanDay]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews take the .dll files from Cyberpunk and drop them into Indiana and AW2 🫡👍

[@west5385]

I'm looking forward to people's in depth comparisons of these DLSS models. By the way, if you do a video I have a good scene for you. The NCPD Cop Cars have a display with moving letters that says something like NCPD and other stuff. The difference between the 2 models might be big. They're all over the map so it shouldnt be too hard to find. Also please do all the resolutions. I'm on 1440p, but my 1080p brothers would appreciate some opinions too if you plan to cover the visual differences. Even if you are not a Digital Foundry pixel peeping professional your opinion matters a lot because you are like the rest of us normal gamers who don't put their eyes 10cm away from their screen to notice faults of the image quality

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Appreciate the kind words man! And thanks for the tip about the NCPD screens. You have twisted my arm, I will try and do such a video ;) I am waiting on new GPUs so will then test on cards other than the 4090 as well for our 1080p brothers.

[@leonardomu]

Nice. Best for these kind of tests are side by side videos. Thank you.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Thanks. And yes, agreed. Unfortunately I only had 30 minutes to do this video and usually do side-by-side. When I do a full test I'll do it that way 👍

[@leonardomu]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Thank you man. Small sugestion. Test please 4k DLSS quality with transformer model vs performance and ultra performance to check the quality and FPS gain. And 4k ultra performance transformer vs ultra performance CNN. Would be amazing!

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Sure man, will do! Taking notes here haha!

[@OmahaGTP]

Good stuff, thanks for the video. I have to assume that x2 FG will also get better/smoother for 4xxx users as drivers mature for nvidia's push for the 5xxx series. The new upscale model being supported on older cards is a huge W.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah, it should get better and better with time for sure. Look at where DLSS started and look where we are now. It's a major improvement.

[@notenjoying666]

Bbbbut you see... 😝😝😝 Now your TENSORFLOW HARDWARE IS COMPLETELY USELESS AS NEW MODEL DOESN UTILIZE IT LOOOOL. You PAID FOR AIRTX 4000 😉.

[@Accuaro]

I've noticed it's blurry in RDR2, and the performance penalty gets worse the further the generation you go. It's not much, but it's still something when every FPS counts.

[@HDRGamingHub]

How do you get DLSS 4 in RDR2 ?

[@DivvayKhatri]

@@HDRGamingHub manually switching dlss and model probably

[@GameplayUnboxed]

On my 2060 super, rdr2 dlss quality cnn is 80fps and dlss quality transformer is 69fps.. it's huge for me, not worth. Edit: As per some users, new Nvidia driver 571.96 found in some dev cuda toolkit improves performance alot for transformer model.. we should wait till Jan 30 for official driver release.

[@Accuaro]

@@GameplayUnboxed Yep, so much hype around it but no one will tell you the huge cost it can have

[@Tonba1]

Considering that TM in performance looks about as good as CNN in quality you probably wont ever see the 5% performance decrease if this was the DLSS we had back in 2018 I wouldnt have been so cynical for the past half decade

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah, that's another angle indeed. You can now use lower quality presets while looking better, meaning you can claw back the slight performance loss.

[@Neonmirrorblack]

Really want to see Quality CNN vs Balanced or even Performance Transformer for image quality because either of the TNN should have better performance and either the same or better image quality.

[@Ureroll]

Just a simple drive around with the 2 different dlss methods to check out the smearing would have really cherry on top, but great comparison video

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Thank you, and yeah, if I had a bit more time I wouldve done just a simple test in motion too. The patch dropped oit of nowhere and I thought to quickly just show the performance differences as it has been something that has been speculated a lot. When the Override function becomes available via the Nvidia App I'll test a few more games and also show motion 👍

[@SKHYJINX]

Nice, First in Best Dressed. Love to see it!!!

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Cheers dude, glad you liked it! 😄 Also, lol at First in Best Dressed 🤣🤣

[@notenjoying666]

So now its twice as good as native cuz according to nvidia fanbots dlss3 was already better than native? 😨😨😨🤣 720p = better 4k aka 5070=4090 aka the more you buy the more you save era has begun 😂😂😂.

[@Goblue734]

Yeah, that transformer model is definitely an improvement. Just look at it it’s pretty obvious even for a 10 FPS loss. I’ll take it.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

It's definitely worth the trade-off.

[@Goblue734]

@ but when you think about it this way I played on DLSS performance and with the new transformer model, it looks almost as good as DLSS quality so you gain back a big chunk of your FPS and retain damn near the same visual qualities so that kinda eliminates the 10 FPS loss. Before I couldn’t stand playing on DLSS performance because it looks so bad.

[@enmanuel7696]

Something strange is happening to me, I have an RTX 2070 Super, in the previous update before the transformer model I had RT + Ray reconstruction activated with the convolutional model and it went between 50 and 60 fps, sometimes even more, now with the same options it goes between 34 and 40 fps, it's very strange. I think this update worsened performance using RT + Ray reconstruction in series 20 and perhaps also in series 30

[@pcgameshardware867]

It's hard to get a read on it just yet but hopefully it pans out

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Terra Ware said he is going to do an image quality comparison video. I think that'll shine some more light on it.

[@pcgameshardware867]

right on​@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews

[@Jakiyyyyy]

So basically CNN also considered as DLSS 4 or still 3? Because both are using DLSS 4 dll file. 🤔

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Based on the Nvidia slide for DLSS 4 Transformer Model is considered to be part of DLSS 4. It's a whole new .dll file and also introduces Preset J for DLSS Upscaling. CNN is the old DLSS 2 / 3.5. Edit: You'll notice that the new .dll file is much larger and the speculation is it's because it supports both in a single file.

[@Jakiyyyyy]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Thanks, now that's crystal clear. So that means the new DLL file support backward compatibility now.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah, I tested it by replacing it in Stalker 2 and the old method still worked. Then using NV Inspector I forced the preset to J and it was then the Transformer model. You'll be able to do this soon via the Nvidia App, so complete backwards compatibility as you'll be able to choose between new and old DLSS from within the app.

[@plrusek]

with path tracing + ray reconstruction, the transformer model is a lot better than the old CNN one. before, especially on lower DLSS modes, the game had this kind of "painted" look to it - edge of objects moved around a lot and were not very defined. all of it gets fixed with transformer models. there is a performance penalty for me at least but it's worth it

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah indeed, character faces looked like melted wax models with PT and RR enabled. This is much better now!

[@BlackSemih]

Why aren't you enabling ray reconstruction? This technology was developed to solve the blur and ghosting issues that occur when ray reconstruction is enabled. It definitely needed to be tested in your video. Without ray reconstruction, it's very difficult to understand the difference between DLSS 3 and 4.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

As stated in the video this wasnt an image quality comparison video, but rather to answer the question about the impact on performance the new transformer model has. The performance differences are the same between the two methods, with or without RR.

[@user-tj4ee6si7x]

Was really hoping DLSS 4 boosts the FPS even higher and reduces stutter/dips.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

The good thing here is that DLSS Balanced at 1440p now looks better in many places than DLSS Quality at 1440p, so if you want a bit of a boost drop the DLSS preset one lower. It'll still look as good, or better, while performing better too.

[@Zillawill]

The new DLSS FG files give me massive frame boost in games like Horizon Forbidden West and Jedi Survivor

[@JuanHM]

What gpu do u have?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Interesting, will have to test as well.

[@ali_leo7868]

ok R___a____---- t 😂😂😂

[@zsigmondforianszabo4698]

I’d love to see multi light bounce performance on faces with the transformer model upscaling! They were horrible with RR on.

[@cemsengul16]

Bro you didn't enable ray tracing.

[@Zenbeau]

so DLSS 4 works on all RTX series? 20, 30, 40, and 50?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Indeed. It is only 3x and 4x MFG that's locked to 50 series.

[@Zenbeau]

@Mostly_Positive_Reviews ty 😊

[@DannyG6.4]

Was the x2 frame gen feature for the 40 series supposed to go live with this 2.21 patch?

[@RJTHEGAME]

Good video I only tested with RT Overdrive on without FG & I didn't see much of a difference at all with my FPS between transformer model and old version, so maybe when Path tracing is on there is no decrease ? Because that's what I saw... I'll test it again in a bit without Path tracing on

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Thanks. I tested it briefly with PT and the performance drop was almost not measurable. I went from 90 fps to 89 fps, so really nothing much.

[@RJTHEGAME]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Yeah it's quite interesting, I found it really hard to tell a difference with PT

[@leo58355]

Why nobody tested ray reconstruction FPS with new transformer model vs CNN?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

I see a lot of people are reporting crashes with RR enabled. I'm not seeing crashes, but that's maybe a reason. That said, The performance differences between CNN and Transformer are identical for me with RR on or off. I wanted to mention it in the video but I completely forgot.

[@leo58355]

@Mostly_Positive_Reviews my 3080 ti has like 104 vs 84 fps with rr enabled cnn vs transformer

[@the_barbarian6689]

I dont think the new frame gen update is out for you unless you 50 series but the dlss works right now. I could be wrong but thats what I hear. I tested and didnt notice anything with the frame getn on 4090. According to CDPR with this patch notes this morning we wont see an update to frame gen for 40 sires or lower until the 30th but looks like DLSS is the only thing right now.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

The CDPR tweet said it's the cleaner, updated version of FG now but I also didnt notice FG differences.

[@Ksoulss]

yeah i think so as well. Until the 30th, i dont think they will work properly and this update was just for having it ready for 1 of the day 0 games for DLSS 4

[@zsigmondforianszabo4698]

Yea unfortunately we wont see a multiplier higher than 2x on 40 or lower cards.

[@the_barbarian6689]

@@zsigmondforianszabo4698 Ya but at least they update dlss for all and the x2 frame gen will be updated for 40 cards.

[@zsigmondforianszabo4698]

@ what do you mean exactly? the frame interpolation stays at 2x for 40 series afaik

[@SaintMichel.]

So beetwen dlss Q cnn and transformer you dont see image quality différence ? Juste transformer 10 15 fps less than cnn ?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

No, there are image quality differences. I'm just saying I'm not good at making those types of videos to highlight that, and also that my recordings are done at 1440p. You'd ideally want to record at 4K so that it doesnt get absolutely destroyed by compression when uploading to KZbin.

[@Nidorino111]

oh god ... 3080 owner .. that made my day .. on 3440x1440* or on 4K* realy thinks is more stable and realy love NVIDIA ..

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

This update to existing DLSS technologies is more interesting to me than the launch of the 50-series ;)

[@justfun5479]

Happy new year 🥂🎉 Does transformer DLSS look much better than CNN? Could you tell the difference at first sight?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Thanks bud, and happy new year to you too! Yeah, there is quite a big difference. Lines are a lot cleaner, a lot less aliased, fences look a lot more stable, and flickering lights are also much improved. It's definitely worth the slight performance cost.

[@GENTZIS]

Thanks for the comparison video! What driver did you use? 566.45 Fix

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Thanks for watching! Yeah, 566.45 hotfix driver. I checked if there was a new driver before recording and there wasnt. But there probably will be one soon for the 50-series.

[@GENTZIS]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Got it. Thanks for the answer!

[@GENTZIS]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Hi!! Did you install the NVIDIA App and you don't need to enable anything in it?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

@@GENTZIS The game itself received this update so nothing needs to be done in the Nvidia App or anywhere else.

[@fatbob1999]

Could've easily avoided the whole CPU bound issues by turning on raytracing/pathtracing.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

It was intentionally part of the test 🤷‍♂️

[@miguelelcarnicero]

Does 4K Ultra Performance even look better with the new model compared to 4K Performance and the old model???

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

I havent tested Ultra Performance yet at 4K, but DLSS Performance at 4K looks slightly better than DLSS Balanced at 4K, so I reckon Ultra Performance at worst would be equal to Performance 4K.

[@gearmore9923]

DLSS4 performance has a beautiful image quality... Until you get to a person

[@Ebilcake]

Same on 4080 Performance slightly faster with CNN, which is disappointing. It looks better. But where was the 10% performance increase meant to come from? DLSS? FG? I'm not seeing it, probably just marking BS.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

The performance improvement is supposed to come from FG but it doesnt seem to make a difference currently, so not sure if it's botched. The transformer model was always going to cost some performance but it should be mitigated by an increase with FG, which doesnt seem to work correctly currently.

[@rohithmekala2608]

It comes from FG when used with the old CNN model

[@Ebilcake]

@rohithmekala2608 So, it's pointless then. Most people will use the new model for better IQ.

[@VASILISPAGOURAS7]

how good is dlss balanced transformer vs dlss quality cnn

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

I've only had limited time testing, but overall there is quite a decent improvement in image quality, to the point where even DLSS Performance at 1440p is considered playable for me. I'd say DLSS Transformer Balanced comes very close to CNN Quality. Even eliminating some flicker that Quality had when using CNN.

[@UnknownUs3r0808]

What you reckon? DLSS in game and FG off but LOSSLESS scalling FG on 2? Ever tried it? I think After some tests I found Lossless scalling on 2x FG beat the FG in game or was just placebo lol. all in terms of latency felt etc.

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Lossless has really come a long way for sure. In Cyberpunk though the DLSS FG is better as it is UI aware so there's less garbling and artifacting. But Lossless Scaling is a great option for 20 and 30 series users as they also got the improved DLSS Transformer model, so in that case DLSS + LSFG X2 is the way to go as it is definitely better than the FSR FG implementation.

[@UnknownUs3r0808]

@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews you're right, i went back with in game FG On and it 's good, beats artifacts, also idk if it's placebo but i feel as if the game runs better now with the new DLSS on 2k, i'm really curious whether after the 29th or w/e they release the new driver if performance will change at all for 40's users with the new DLSS or remain the same as now. Also lossless scaling is a must for anyone that plays or wants to try Suicide Squad vs justice league, that game with RAytracing on is awful on FPS due to CPU limit.

[@B1-K4R]

This is where the 50 series will pull ahead of the 40 series or old. The transformer model was made for the 50 series. They will little to no additional cost

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Most likely yeah. Will be very interesting to see it tested on a 50-series GPU.

[@HelloImCrimson]

Sorry, but it really wont matter at all.

[@Thuner67776]

On my 4070 ti super there was a 3% cost, daniel owen's video showed no difference between cnn and transformer model between 4090 and 5090. 40 series is fine. 30 and older I am not sure.

[@never2776]

@@Thuner67776 Performance dropped by 13% on the RTX 3080🤣

[@Thuner67776]

@@never2776 yeah I feared that would happen with older cards. Sorry to hear that.

[@MatRedPilled]

its insane. now i play on 4k path tracing with lower input lag on FG on 4070ti in ultra performance dlss mode.... it looks grade at 90+ fps... it is insane. there is no smearing.... the lights look stable... wow

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah, the lights especially flicker a lot less. Image quality definitely improved quite a bit in certain scenarios, it's great to see.

[@mosesdavid5536]

Is there an actual image quality difference or its marketing? As in is balance usable on 1440p now?

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Yeah, there is some IQ improvements that I noticed in my short testing. Finer lines like the lines between sidewalks are a lot more stable, rear windshield covers found on many cars are a lot cleaner, some lights that used to flicker quite a lot has less flicker now. I am busy testing 1440p Balanced as we speak and yes, it's cleaner for sure.

[@the_barbarian6689]

There is definitly a difference in image granted I have a base of 4k but it still should apply to you. I was able to test this morning and see.

[@TheAmericanDay]

It is way better!

[@Vultaggioo]

GOOD! Now You 4090 Users Can Stop CRYING!

[@Mostly_Positive_Reviews]

Crying about what 🤣

[@atvva4738]

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