DMP #12 - Adam Mizner - Cultivation Chat

In this episode, Damo and Adam Mizner are in Bali, chatting about the nature of cultivation and what place the various arts such as Taiji, Qigong and Meditation play on this path. They discuss their personal entry into Taiji, the nature of pushing hands, Zhong Ding, meditation and more.
This episode was filmed on a day off after they had been practicing together for the month of April in order to further develop their skills and help each other out in their practice.
TRIGGER WARNING: To those easily offended by such things, alcohol features in this video!
#damomitchell #adammizner #taichi
Online training: www.damomitchell.com
Main website: www.lotusneigong.com
Adam Mizner: www.discovertaiji.com

[@Foolwithouthumility]

You guys have great chemistry, please aim to make your discussions once a month.

[@GuruViking]

I very much enjoyed this exchange! 🙏

[@LotusNeiGong]

Thanks buddy :) hope things are well with you 🙏

[@LotusNeiGong]

ARGH! We had the sound curse from the microphone once again! Consequently, Adam's mic cuts out from time to time in the chat. After looking at editing sections out we decided to instead leave it all in as it was and those who are interested can listen intently to catch the missing sessions. We shall also add subtitles to the video as soon as we are able so that you can still read the missing sections.

[@jamesm5192]

Time to get mics that aren't so sensitive to qi

[@LotusNeiGong]

@@jamesm5192 Subtitles added :)

[@40JoCharles]

Adam needs to dial that chi down. 🤷🏻‍♀️😵‍💫🤣

[@ponopost]

Upgrade to a “true-diversity/two-channel” wireless system-such as Lectrosonics (a film-industry standard). Bruce Frantzis’s “energy” consistently created drop-outs (with a Sennheiser G3 system) before upgrading.

[@jamesharkins6799]

Thanks for leaving it in, totally hearable. Good info on great topics. Thanks again

[@LotusNeiGong]

SUBTITLES ADDED NOW - so hopefully that makes it easier...

[@khoitran6867]

Many thanks to the person who took their time to caption a 2 hours talk! ❤

[@LotusNeiGong]

I believe it was some AI creation that did it actually! Then a kind soul took the time to insert it into the clip :)

[@mitchellsandler]

@@LotusNeiGong The captions are very helpful, so thanks loads. Perhaps someone can go through and just tweak a couple of mistakes? Siddhis, for example, are understood by the AI as 'cities'. Great to hear the lighthearted way you two interact!

[@StephenJamesGoodWill]

Thanks for getting Adam to do another talk. I wish you both a great rest of the year.

[@yanasophia1955]

thanks Damo! been waiting for your next chat with Adam.

[@scholarwarriorhealer]

Taiji is a way to interact with the unified field utilizing the fifth force of physics conscious awareness. Forming geometric patterns with straight lines and curves. Circling the square squaring the circle. Internal alchemy transmuting the low vibrating dense self to high vibrating translucent self.

[@Ettinger81]

Always happy to see and hear you two together 😄 Fantatsic content conveyed in a down-to-earth conversation - perfect! Thanks a lot and hope you keep it up 🙏

[@HillardEarl]

@This profound wisdom not only enhances physical and mental well-being but also fosters empathy, compassion, and inner peace. As we delve into the art of Push Hands, let us remember to approach it with an open mind and a willingness to explore the depths of our own being. 🤧

[@pudpudp]

Thank you both.❤

[@benjaminslattery9926]

Wow! Awesome! more of these Damo Adam pods please.

[@FrumenJ]

Nice talk, feels good listening to you two. 🙏🏼

[@phuket.meditation]

Great chat! Thoroughly enjoying the both of you talking about the path and cultivation. It seems that practitioners with such a wealth of dedication, devotion and experience are becoming increasingly rare in this day and age. Thanks for sharing this!

[@gruvious]

It’s a really great talk Damo, thanks for bringing Adam on the podcast!

[@jonathanadler6983]

Very Enlightening conversation guys, loved it ☯❤🙏

[@HolyChaoMu]

Thabk you for the great talk, and especially the laughs.

[@mary-anncarleton7578]

Hahaha inspiration is far and few between, good one. May the spirit be ya guys always. 🙏🌺❤️

[@clackers9696]

Enjoyable and informative , also reminded me of that old saying 'patience is a virtue, virtue is a grace, grace came to our house with dirt on her face.'

[@spirialitytalks8324]

Really interesting talk....very much appreciate you both airing it...Stephen from the u.k

[@777RAD777]

So glad to listen to another chat between you two. So much gold in here. Thanks to both of you :D

[@carlosroji4144]

always so instructive & entertaining to hear from both of you. Thanks

[@candlefire8411]

Loved that. Cheers guys.

[@BoCopenhagen]

Inspiering food for thought. You are supplementing each other so well.

[@joyalways1179]

Yes, the divine, JESUS, just ask Him. Grace is God’s unmerited favor.

[@scottc3165]

I really enjoyed the interview.

[@andreyvoronkov6388]

a nice friendship to witness

[@TheBuddyShowWorldwide]

Greetings and well met, gentlemen.

[@ninjininji]

Thanks a lot for sharing your views 🙏

[@edw4611]

Really enjoyed your episode and find you both are a benefit to this world... On the question of is cultivation selfish...I think for all if not many it starts out with at least the aspect of wanting something more for oneself. But if fortune happens to smile, then it becomes wanting more for everyone

[@DuanePortal]

Thanks guys, love your discussions, please do more…

[@LotusNeiGong]

We actually have a third episode which we recorded and decided maybe best not to release as it was a little offensive.... this is the PC one!

[@REPH13]

@@LotusNeiGong come on. Why are you caring? :D

[@LotusNeiGong]

@@REPH13 :)

[@xKirtashx]

​@@LotusNeiGong would love to listen to the non PC session aswell! I'm sure many would support this😬

[@zerocrutch]

@@xKirtashx yup! I say offend away!

[@voobtoob]

Nice discussion... This helps more than watching technique.

[@SarazHandpans]

Wonderful exchange! Thank you for sharing. Regarding the discussion of whether stress leaves a hit anywhere in the system, it feels a bit like it is the fuel of identification. The more I let that fuel burn and transform into identification, the more of a hit or the more it is expressed in my system. Or put another way, the more I am focused on my individualization, the more it hits. The more I am focused on something bigger than my individualization, the less it hits.....but if I come back around to focusing on my self centered individual self, then that fuel is still there waiting to fuel the hit to my system...even months or years later. Perhaps it is stored in the deeper channels like the extras? Of course this is perhaps just another individualized self reflective delusion lol.

[@michaelj.4187]

you never die you transmute...life is a construct of judgement, your choice/free will to ascend judgement, sending love and peace to everyone...

[@salvijus9]

Yeeeey :) great duo

[@tmaeer5446]

thanks for sharing - cocktails always help my 'song'...

[@khoitran6867]

Your discussion on Taichi's origin in the beginning is very consistent with the Taichi myth I've read when I was young. Zhang Sanfeng created Taichi at the end of his life, when he was already a master of combat arts. It was like he was just trying to explore the limit of the expression of his body, which was then aged and timeworn, and not combat-oriented.

[@LaoZi2023]

So, you haven't practised with a high level Tai Chi Chuan teacher? Or was that not what you were inferring?

[@khoitran6867]

@@LaoZi2023 no I was just commenting on how Damo's opinion on Taiji's origin is consistent with the myth I've read about when I was younger.

[@madogblue]

Such a great episode. It's a shame the audio was breaking up. I hope you get some new equipment or work out this issue for other episodes. Hate to miss any of your interesting dialog.

[@shrine5222]

would love to run into you two, i stumbled across this but it all resonates

[@vargtro]

I achieved peace and lost my motivation to train. I trained hard for about a year, maybe 2-4 hour meditation with softening and releasing excercise... then I lost all motivation. I realize listening to damo that my motivation was never more than that, I've tried to understand or seek something greater, and I do understand more. But im just satisfied not seeking it, I think im just lazy tbh.

[@davidryan7386]

Being honest and observing is essential.

[@Labalix]

Really nice talk. Nice to "validate" some toughts 😂 👌

[@paulmcintyre7800]

Love it. On so many levels /\

[@mystictheninja1486]

I was just having that conversation with someone too about how the direction people are going, with all the identifying, is going to lead them to the exact opposite of what they want. They want to be empowered and free but it will only bring suffering and confusion. The spiritual path is so much about dropping the identity and, with it, the weight and baggage that holds you down and limits your perception so that you can seek after something larger than yourself. But this recent push towards total narcissism and identity is like a dead sprint in the opposite direction of spirituality, divinity and freedom. The blind leading the blind.

[@pierrebridenne8870]

Aren't you worried that any progressive path that inherently involves the idea of ​​a person who has to progress and purify themselves will ironically only maintain the belief in a separate entity and hence its persistence? thank you both for this enriching sharing.

[@LotusNeiGong]

No, not worried :)

[@pierrebridenne8870]

​@@LotusNeiGong thanks , The intellect is a coward who needs certainty. I readily admit it. So no choice, we go all out, right? As Saint Jean De La Croix said: "the intention belongs to you, the rest belongs to God."

[@riptiz]

Unfortunately if you become selfless through cultivation then others get jealous and think you should be giving them all your attention!

[@ebrown.fitness7974]

48:20, insert: "...is a pathway to many abilities. Some consider to be unnatural.” (j/k) Good talk 👍🏽

[@dononeworld]

Fun discussion. Does dynamic equilibrium describe Zhong Ding?

[@LotusNeiGong]

Possibly, yes :)

[@davidc8985]

I have to laugh because where I'm from everyone complains about how much they hate being here, and I've been saying that to people for years "move" and they're like "no I can't" and I'm like "ok I'll drive you" and they're like "but but but I can't can't can't". personally I feel like I could be happy anywhere. You can change your place, your job, your life, your car, your bf/gf but if you don't change your mind and yourself then you'll still never be happy.

[@deborahdakota7489]

I've always believed the mark of a good teacher is someone who refuses to allow students to give them their power. So many "spiritual" people are all about boosting their ego...and power over others.

[@juang4618]

The part where you talked about disconnect from the emotion causing events that happen in life and whether or not it leaves a "scar" in the energetic body if you sort of blow it off because of non attachment? My understanding is that the reaction needs to be fully experienced (as should everything that enters your purview) then allowed to dissipate consciously in order to not be karmically adding on. I suppose that would be an ability of one who is enlightened.

[@riptiz]

Fighting Arts International was edited by Terry O’Neill of the KUGB Shotokan.

[@LotusNeiGong]

Aha yes, that’s right. Of course it was :)

[@riptiz]

@@LotusNeiGong I’ve trained with him several times in the past. Brilliant to train under.

[@LotusNeiGong]

Yes, I met him a few times when I was younger and enjoyed his take on the arts :)

[@nevisstkitts8264]

29:32 "your mind's interface with the nervous system definitely lies"

[@philippphengo2310]

What's the name of the great immortal they speak about in the beginning minutes of the talk? Chan Zen Fong? Would be much appreciated

[@urielpolak9949]

Aah nice lets go

[@stokesrealestate]

Not a good camera angle, better if we could see Adams face. Just my opinion…

[@OWR_Mission]

John Dean? Who is he? We must come to know him? Does he practice tai ji?

[@ilyaolshanetskiy7421]

Great discussion. Cheers to Adam as a ferocious and rightful defender of Buddhism! we are all facing realities of Kali Yuga and worst is probably yet to come.

[@dabblerdeluxe775]

This touches on things I have found when looking into Neidan, It seems as far as I can tell medieval neidan was all about evolving and preserving the body and believed that to be a spiritual achievement but later daoism basically rejected it as false, pushing that the body is merely a channel for liberating the soul and disregarded the preservation of the body(while acknowledging longevity as a side effect). It feels like Daoism was mostly colonized by buddhist dogma and isn't really daoism. I guess the best we can do is take what works and adapt

[@davidwearley7843]

Only some, other schools went in different directions. Xing Ming Gui Zhi which is pretty much a middle school document, emphasise dual cultivation of Xing and Ming and was produced in the Mid Ming Dynasty. Wang Chonyang, founder of Quanzhen didn't seem to emphasize Ming cultivation at all. Perhaps it was all secret, but all of his documents point more toward Xing cultivation.

[@trump9075]

​@@davidwearley7843what's the difference between the two?

[@davidwearley7843]

@@trump9075 xing refers to one’s inherent pure nature. Ming can refer to destiny, but in the Neidan context it refers more specifically to the functioning of one’s physical and energetic system and relates more to cultivating Qi and it’s refinement. Different schools emphasized cultivating one first, then the other or both at the same time and had different idea about how to do that.

[@sheazoom]

1:22:00 Ive read in the 31 planes of existence by suvanno mahatera that the reason for not practising jhana might be that by doing so you would create the karma of being reborn. So dealing with desire when it is actually there might be really just being psychological about it ;)

[@DiscoverTaiji]

The Buddha constantly instructed the monks to practice and dwell in Jhana.

[@sheazoom]

@@DiscoverTaiji And one or the other text states that the jhana practise would lead to nibbana. Anyhow maybe some theravada guys didnt get the briefing. Just saying that if one is interested in why some buddhists wouldnt want to achieve jhana: in the book is a cool list concerning which jhana leads to what realm in their system/tradition. The satipatthana sutta would kind of back up the idea that nibbana is realized by mindfulness alone. I think at least the theravada tradition in sri lanka is based very much on that sutta. So it might make sense not to go for the jhanas from that perspective.

[@towardstar]

I can finally learn Merkaba

[@geoffholloway3744]

Times haven't changed much still very much like the Roman times. People fighting for others entertainment it's not fights to the death but still it goes back to the same old money people getting rich from other people's suffering

[@LaoZi2023]

At 1:14, my only contention about Adam's conviction to an acceptance of a Divine is ' How do you know?' You only have books, that I know of, and even if a Buddha can do miraculous things, how do you know it is from a Divinity? And how do you know it's not the height of human abilities? My current thought is that first there were humans, then there was God.

[@khoitran6867]

Maybe what he has aren't books, ideas, or beliefs but highly attained teachers who are in touch with the Divine and have led him to direct experience with it?

[@jonrabat5561]

"I identify as divine" Cheers 😂

[@QiDeviant]

You've mentioned that you often got disappointed in people. I'm curios is it possible to tell if people are trustworthy using i ching?

[@LaoZi2023]

Can you be more specific?

[@QiDeviant]

@@LaoZi2023 in his podcast about bagua Damo mentions its connection to i ching. He elaborates on how i ching is a tool to understand causation. So I suppose if you understand causation, you can understand that some person can betray you in future. I'm curious if my reflections on this are right

[@maxwu3395]

So… is shooting Fire and Water from pores metaphorical or literal?? In between?

[@LaoZi2023]

Good question!

[@DiscoverTaiji]

literal

[@LaoZi2023]

@@DiscoverTaiji , have you seen it happen?

[@keithgodfrey2023]

Can buy any thing U want in south east Asia, any thing , life or death, have a nice day ,

[@aslihank6598]

DM is AM's student

[@LotusNeiGong]

Nope :) We are friends. But Adam is very good and a good teacher. There would be no shame if I was his student, I'm just not!

[@deborahdakota7489]

Don't the top down practices have greater risk of basically frying your body's circuits, ungrounding you, making you a bit manic?

[@LaoZi2023]

Yes.

[@riptiz]

No. Bottom to up is the fire path. I guess it depends on the techniques and instructions. The yogic way of Kundalini is bottom up generally, one sits on a non conductive Asan so that you don’t ground. This is like boiling a kettle and is very quick but not without risks. In Kundalini maha yoga( not to be mistaken for Kundalini yoga) , this is the shaktipat path and mantras.

[@keithgodfrey2023]

It's very introspective , Adam hit on good point if sounds Christian they run, but Adam is right if there depressed go help some one , I met people westerners who said there budist ok people but where living a very self self self exsistance , where are the children where's the wife family,that's best thing ever , I posers a qwestion I said imagine you won ,ten million dollars,what would U do ? They where all stuck for answers ,witch I found strange , I said I would adoped children, they all came out with negatives because my answer was selfless ,I said I would pay for nanny's best nanny's sail around world , they where all afraid to really live

[@zerocrutch]

If you guys need a Guinea pig for your Merkaba training sign me up 😁

[@khoitran6867]

Regarding Buddhas, I once read a Buddhist text (I'm 100% a nerd) in which they describe three characteristics of the Buddha: 1. Siddhis/Supernatural abilities (flying, walk through walk, etc.), which are regarded as least important. 2. The ability to read your soul (thoughts and karmic information or such I assume). 3. The ability to enlighten another being. I did not think much of it back then and chalk it up as a mythological kind of stories but after listening to many of your talk I start to think it is actually literal.

[@3within1]

How dare you not be inspired by Bruce Lee! He was my first hero growing up. I jest of course 😂

[@Kiyan-tl5fy]

daal is delicious, how dare you

[@LaoZi2023]

I don't know why Adam thinks he can think for other people...for example, cultivating the human 'spirit' may be simply old terms for cultivating the human consciousness. Assuming that all people believe in 'spirit' when they cultivate may not be true. A person may be cultivating for other reasons, and may have different beliefs. In the end, belief is irrelevant. Do the practice and see what comes, simply observe the mind, and the observer. If the question arises, 'what is the observer,' one has to ask oneself, can you really know? I don't cultivate because I believe, I cultivate because I wish to know the Truth. I am not blind in my beliefs, but I am open minded; and I am willing to be wrong. My current thought is that it is humans that create that thing that becomes 'immortal'.

[@michaelfox3486]

Maharshi "I AM THAT" I am not this body, this chattery monkey mind, my personality, my roles, profession, accolades, male, female, I AM THAT. Divine. I get the joke and if anyone has the right to speak about this issue with my history and experience it would be myself. You are both correct their "significance these are my pronouns" is a root cause for suffering. Because I know how deeply some have suffered I have worked on the pronoun "they" for intersex and nonbinary but beyond that at my age it becomes too ego driven on my end and theirs to recall 30 speciality pronouns.

[@keithgodfrey2023]

Soft crap on computers

[@keithgodfrey2023]

Yi g Yan is gender

[@brucekai7462]

"UFC is not my cup of tea" = AKA... I wouldn't be around actual fighting because I'd be confronted by reality and it would expose the chi nonsense I make a living from.

[@HolyChaoMu]

Did you listen to a two hour podcast without listening at all? 😂 Where you just rubbing your hands together the entire time saying " now I got them, they're frauds because they think commiting violent acts for money and entertainment is dumb"?

[@brucekai7462]

@@HolyChaoMu No, I heard what I needed to and I’ve seen enough to know that Adam is a fraud and whatever he teaches with the “chi” fuckery is tantamount to cult behavior. Ask yourself why this bullshit never works on a layman… can’t believe grown adults buy into this nonsense of people getting moved around simply by a light touch and chi. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@LotusNeiGong]

🤦‍♂️

[@jamesm5192]

@@HolyChaoMu MMA-SJWs always double down